People seem to be confused.

Maybe...maybe not.

Space Jockey was a nickname someone on the set of the original Alien film gave to the fossilized alien in the big chair in the derelict. I think Engineer is the term Ridley, Damon and Jon apply to the living, breathing Space Jockey in Prometheus.

Oh no, they definitely are. Ridley has even said in interviews "nobody ever asked the question about who the guy in the chair was. Y'know, the Space Jockey or engineer, whatever you want to call him"

I agree ADH0983, I think they are the same. But I think people have been talking about there being a higher intelligence who actually created the Space Jockey...which could be true. But yeah, I think the Engineers are the same as the Jockeys.

@GreatBoosUp: But we agree the big, bald, blue guy (well one of them) is of the same race as the fossilized creature in the chair.

I'd like to discuss your thought process on why this is the case, because I have seen no clear cut evidence that what you say is true. It could be...but it could not be. If we look to Scott's influences, like Lovecraft, there is a strong argument that they could in fact be two seperate races, with one being a "slave". I can't recall any theories/evidence that they are the same. The bottom line is that no one knows right now, either scenario is a possibility in my mind. So what makes you so confident?

Save your breath. Don't bother trying to put together a concise package of evidence to support your claim (trailer footage, stills, director's commentary, etc) because it's a waste of your time. Just nod your head and agree that yes, they are obviously two different species, and yes, the exploding head is totally different from the Space Jockey helmet, and yes, (insert wacky pet theory that totally contradicts photographic evidence). Oh, and there are Predators in this movie and you can't convince me otherwise.

Yeah, I heard Arnie was making a cameo as Butch, too.

I always kind of thought that they were synonymous as well. In fact, I thought that most people on here understood that. I don't know; maybe I'm wrong. Let me be honest with you regarding this mysterious "space jockey". When I first saw the original Alien, I really didn't think anything about the SJ other than that he was some alien who met his demise after the xenomorph erupted out of his chest cavity. It wasn't until recently that I started to entertain the thought that a) the SJ is a suit, and b) perhaps what came out of him was or is the xenomorph we all know and love. Really, I can speculate all day long, but I'm kind of content to finding out what happens on opening night. In fact, I never knew that they were even referred to as "engineers" until I actually started reading the various blogs all over the web.

@paulr Lol

Also, I had always wondered how the "xenomorph" had gotten aboard the derelict in the first place. Maybe we'll finally find out...

[img]http://thebioscopist.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/screen-shot-2012-04-17-at-23-23-36.png[/img] Your move sir..

Yeah, they are one and the same. Dif. names but the same dude

@ADH0983...Butch??? But how do we reconcile this obviously true spoiler with the continuity of the canon?? Perhaps time travel? Perhaps Butch is an android who Weyland modeled after the real Butch? Perhaps...perhaps....bzzzzzzzttttzzzzzz *ears start to smoke*....zzzzzzz....*head explodes*

I heard that Ripley comes back from the future at then end, saves everyone and interrupts a brawl between SJ, Alien Queen and Predator. Just before all three rip her apart, she tells Shaw that she's her mother and then Arnie (as Butch) comes swinging in on a vine and tells everyone they are "ugly muddafuckers" and blows them all to kingdom come while chonging on a big-arse Cuban cigar. Then gives Shaw a high-five and then......FADE OUT.

Paulr...you also left out cast list from the book of evidence, no second species of Jockey, just engineers

Then gives Shaw a high-five, tells her he is her father THEN fade out

I believe the Space Jockey seen in Alien and the bald figure in the Edward ScissorHands pants seen in Prometheus are 2 separate species...you see the Jockeys running in the hologram log or recording, whatever it is...also in Prometheus. But I don't see them running off calories....I see panic and fear, fear for lives, fear of the Baldie. The Jockeys travel to this planet with the same curious and naive view as the humans...they also found their world represented in the Map room...but they suffer the same fate of the humans. The Jockeys in the hologram are running for their lives...panic is a universal trait and I see terror in that urgency.

It's hilarious to watch how spun up folks will get arguing they are different. One in the same, Scott's interviews and the cast list prove it. Then again, I have heard that Rutger Hauer is doing a cameo - turns out that Vickers is Roy Batty's love child.

I am totally with you on that, ADH0983. I heard that same quote from Ridley Scott. I also recall him or Lindelof - someone high on the movie's food chain anyway - say exactly that in an interview (you know, in that magazine I keep mentioning on every post... :/ am getting it back in a couple hours, promise!). Can't remember the exact sentence but it was along 'Space Jockey is just the name we are giving to Engineers when they're wearing the pilot-suit' My take on why the 2 different beings theory stuck... Before I read this in the interviews, even I had doubts because 2 species could have made sense regarding the mythological parallel : the Titan Prometheus steals the 'fire' from the Gods to give it to men, a species the Titans created from mud... It's still not sure whether a 2nd species could be present, maybe in a potential sequel, as it seems it would go in again another direction and new worlds... I'm sure Engineers/SJ are 2 names for the same beings though. -T.

@ Ralphie: EXACTLY!

@ADH0983 Off topic but R.I.P Adam "MCA" Yauch. Big fan of Beastie Boys.

I think there's a big ass hugger on the loose, hence why they're running. Potentially one of the engineers has gone rogue and is killing the rest...sacrifice and ghost engineer, baldie is the last engineer sans suit. We will all find out shortly that's for sure

@Forever War maybe I've missed something, but I was under the impression that you didn't see what was making them (or him/her/between) run, whether it was a system failure (dire or not), a creature or just a desperate need for the toilet! If I'm wrong please offer any provable correction... I'm waiting for Prometheus to do that and surprise me!

Picking up on Syphonox's argument, what if it is a symbiotic relationship. The suits are alive and bio-mechanical. The engineers wear the suits in order to run their spaceship, because apparently in the trailer y0u can see an engineer walking around without the suit. However, in the original Alien and also in this trailer you see the space-jockey/suit strapped into the chair with the cannon-like thing, After all, it's a mighty organic looking suit.

Still a dude in a suit whatever way you look at it

Spoiler Alert******* Arnold's character's name is Dutch not Butch, and the real cameo is in fact a clone of Carl Weathers' character (Dillon aka "Agent Mann") performing next to a CGI "Dutch" (Arnold's too wrinkly now) who promptly takes a 9 mm bullet (or was it a pepperoni) and punches it through your head (in 3-D of course) .

@jp did i hear someone mention asshugger? lol well see the jockeys of course turn to stone after they die the engineers don't so yeah they are totally different............and LV 426 is LV 223...........what else did we establish JP? someone actually brought up Proteus today on a new forum, maybe last night I can't remember

Please GOD... don't let them fool them selfs as to thinking there will be a predator on the loose. PLEEEEAAAAAAASSSEEEEE!!!!!!!

Saintssinphony....that was the best fun I've had on this forum...I actually felt a twinge of guilt afterwards, poor bloke Yes...planets age in dog years, the Math was perfect lol

We just figured out blues clues, we just figured out blues clues!

@Mercenary7: Thanks mate! Devastated about Yauch. Sad times.

ADH0983you're right, and you mentioned the right nterview with ridley where he also confirms it. I also don't get why people think theyre seeing a blue guy by the waterfall, to me that looks like something being transformed into a man (by engineer technology). there is no need for a hierarchy of creators of the engineers. Thats what shit sequels do, and when theyve totally ran out of all ideas, they do a monster mash up. i would say there is no 'canon' (ridiculous term) for this film. ridley can do what he wants. All that happens in Alien is that one creature is eventually spawned from the process. He can ignore everything else in aliens et al.

Windood: I hear ya.

i wonder if some peoples enjoyment of the film will be ruined by a sense of "oh fuck, did i really post all of that crap i thought online?" Blue baldy = space jockey = engineer Now, slowly, repeat after me baldeee eeekwuls spaaaaace joh-key eeekwuls engineeeer

@Winwood: Exactly. People need to get their heads straight. It's fucking ridiculous.

I personally don't mind what people believe, but I do have concerns that if they believe there are 2 distinct races, that the jockeys are not the same as the engineers, then in due course the scientologists will find out about it, and trick them into a big thetan purge, then we'll all get swept along into it (and they won't let us see prometheus. EVER) This is how it all starts people, LINE IN THE SAND. NOW WHO IS WITH MEEEEEEEE ooh, new meds, fancy :-)

The Blue Guy and the SJ are the same.....get it? The SJ is a Blue Guy with his space suit on people!!! Ridley talked about this stuff...he mentioned about why no one wondered who was in that suit from Alien. The Engineer(s) is/are the Blue Guy's:O)

@iapetus what about an SJ as 'prometheus' and a higher power not shown in the film but one that has a left a pandora box behind intended for earth? I dont think two species need to be shown. the threat for me is what they find and what it would mean if it were to reach earth. this was always the implied threat and menace in alien/aliens too, something that Riply 'got' immediately.

f that happens, then suddenly the engineers are redundant as any kind of threat onscreen, and were a waste of time making a film to go and see. if you're going to make a film about the space jockeys, you make a film about the space jockeys, not their daddies, and their daddies daddies. And people moaned about lost, good grief.