SPOILER ALERT - Did you catch the Engineer kneeling/Genuflecting?

@Dan321 ok, so what happened to the gardeners 2000 years ago? Also, why create us then destroy us (or attempt to)? Was David lying about where the ship was headed? There have been recent posts saying that the derelict ship in "Alien" was MUCH older than the "weapon installation" in "Prometheus" and that the chestbursters and eggs in that craft were "natural" xenomorphs as opposed to "engineered" xenomorphs in the weapon installation. Thanks!

Fantastic. I love the way a great movie really gets people thinking. Great ideas and knowledge being thrown out there. For some reason though I'm having trouble with the evolution of the creature into an egg laying "queen". I can't get those puzzle pieces to fit right. I'm also thinking about the initial hologram recording of the "engineers" running into the room and one loosing his head. Where they simply running to a room they couldseall off? One other point has me thinking. If these time linesomewhatat overlap (Alien and Prometheus) it makes me think about your explanation for the evolution of the face hugger. If it is linked the the sperm, then how did the face hugger in alien come about unless there is a direct link between the two ships or locations in the movies. That or i guesaccidentallyly infected Engineers where having sex with the same horrible results. Wow, put that on a poster for pro black goo infecteabstinencece.

Oh, I got another question. Make this relevent to the myth of Prometheus, please. What are the gardeners giving us that upsets whomever made them? Was it at the beginning? Giving us life by sacrificing itself? Then the "gods" of the gardeners said, Hell No! Get your asses back to earth and undo that so that's why they would destroy us? (I get the feeling we don't really mean all that much to them though (to argue my own point). I think it was significant that David said, How disappointing it would be to you if your makers say they made you because they could. Is that the answer? They only made us because they could? Or did they not even make us, were they compelled by who made them to make us? Is it (and I shudder at throwing out the religion card) Like when the "angels" became jealous of "man" becuase we got souls and we were elevated to their original position of right hand of the creator? Or is that David's motive, he hates us because we have souls etc etc) Back to my original point about the Prometheus myth, was it David stealing the goo? Did he get his head ripped off for the breach in containing the WMD? Is that the Prometheus connection? (It bothers me that the gardener looked at him so lovingly before ripping his head off. Even if he is not "alive" its still harsh the way it goes from complete love to contempt so quickly.)

@Dan321; One problem, Shaw cannot make eggs she is barren. Also the SJ doesn't bow, he is weak from the hypersleep just like the humans were.

I watched it again and I think I am catching on... albeit slowly. I can't even sleep my brain is in hyperdrive. There are soooo many good theories but This thread is the one i'm gonna keep watching for more answers m/ m/

"All this has happened before and shall happen again" The million year old tech and eggs in the first Alien could be the first go around with this. Truly, any thing you saw in this film has "alien's DNA" in it. Everything in here shares the same DNA, engineer, humans, cuddles, and Deacon. Prometheus connection--there is no greater fire that burns brighter in the universe than that of life. The fire itself is the primoridal DNA/goo. Svanya--This is my ignorance which may lead this question is it stated that Shaw is "barren" as cannot have children or that she is eggless, i.e. no ovaries? One does not conotate the other under certain conditions. Structual issues with the female organs, fallopian tubes or incompetent uterus may beget "barren" but not "eggless".

@Recka73, Love your questions. Okay, let's do this. I'll do the second part of your question in a separate reply to this discussion. On question #1 - quite intuitive of you that you followed 1) What happened to the gardeners 2000 years ago? immediately with 2) Why create us and then destroy us (or attempt to) ? Want me to tell your or show you? Of course, both! Answer: 1) This is what happened 2000 years ago: [img]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Roman_Republic_Empire_map.gif[/img] [img]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Territories_of_Dynasties_in_China.gif[/img] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Territories_of_Dynasties_in_China.gif]Your text to link here...[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Roman_Republic_Empire_map.gif]Your text to link here...[/url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Territories_of_Dynasties_in_China.gif http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Roman_Republic_Empire_map.gif 2000 years ago we pass the tipping point into a stage of super organization, information sharing, and population growth. So what? 2) Humans are only really, really dangerous when they are organized into larger group. For most of our history, we've been hunting and gathering in low density, yet the Gardeners per the story visit us and tell us things. From written history, we know we formed some small early dense populations yet the Gardeners visit us there too and they tell us things, such as along the egyption nile. Organizationally speaking, 2000 years ago we continued our steady ascent to the current age, but even more rapidly until our knowledge grew exponentially on the logarithmic scale (aka "through the roof".) We started evolving larger and larger organizational structures. (FYI - this is how you get out of a garden of eden, aka a green planet, and the Gardeners know the pattern.) We called these early structures empires. All empires come and go, but the that's because we're evolving organizational structures until we find one that works and keeps growing, and growing, and....well, you get the picture. But wait, why create us then destroy us? 3) The Gardeners just provided the parsed raw DNA. We evolved here like everything else, that's how a garden planet works and probably how all the Gardeners tend their Garden planets. The Gardeners didn't manipulate earth to produce us specifically. So imagine their reaction when they see the universe has coughed up them...again. The odds are astronomical, but incidentally we're literally working on an astronomical scale (billions of years, untold number of garden planets started). For example, just speaking of probability, the odds of anything no matter how rare given infinity will happen. The Gardeners don't have infinity. Imagine how it might get their attention beyond any other life form that evolved on all these different worlds, when they see their own crop up again. So what? 4) So they didn't manipulate to create us. We were the same kind of surprise as all the other evolving fauna (possibly flora) that grew (evolved) on any and all their garden planets. Of course, sometimes life on a planet dies out and sometimes the Gardeners wipe it out. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT? 5) I'd like to say logic, but if you don't like that answer then because David read it in the cuneiform and said it in the movie in reference to the Gardeners stockpile of virus, "Sometimes they have to destroy in order to create." (Sometimes I wonder, Did we all watch the same movie?...but I digress.) So here's the thing. 6) Gardeners know sometimes they have to kill a garden. Why? Because its contents threaten to spread to all the other garden planets and to Gardeners, garden planets have their own kind of manifest destiny. So Gardeners don't mess with Gardens unless it is a critical situation. They let the Garden die out if that's its destiny and then they start again once the flora re cooperates. So when do they act? 7) When a garden threatens to create a virulent species that will begin to affect all the other gardens. That is they leave their planet and start seeding others themselves. [u]You might notice that ability is the domain of the Gardeners only and remember all the existing garden literally descend from seeded Gardener DNA strands[/u], aka don't be like the God (which we can discuss if you want to ask why the Gardeners were here in person, but perhaps you get it already.) So what's the "herbicide" for killing a garden. 8) The virus black goo that infects a species and then via meiosis merges with it sexually to become the Xenomorph version. Since all gardens species are made of the same base DNA - it is a wide spectrum 'herbicide', better called a phylumcide (from phylum). Hence they have a recipe to getting rid of species that will jump their garden fence and sort of like the gods/Gardeners start to invade planets on their own, except not to seed and allow them to develop their own manifest destiny through evolution, rather these species will simply commandeer the garden planets and co-opt them. So what's the difference with us, why not kill us off us, why visit us? 9) The difference is, this time the species to be killed of is them, that is to say us. We are them; they are us. How surprised were we that they were genetically human? Now, can you imagine how surprised they were their species cropped up (evolved again) when the originally detected us? (they're humans too after all.) So do they wipe us who are identical to them out? Also, you might ask, did this happen before? 10) Remember the title, Prometheus? Prometheus was a Titan. The Titans and namely Chronos, is the Titan who sired/gave rise to the gods, but Chronos knew his children would one day conquer him. So Chronos, not being all bad, ate his children when they were born and they slept in stasis in his stomach. This is until one of the gods, Zeus/Jupiter, figured it out and he slew Chronos and freed all his sleeping brothers and sisters, Hera, etc, and unlike the Titans, the Gods let their siblings and childeren manifest their own destinies...or did they? Perhaps the Gardeners are familiar with the rotation of rulership? (Besides, how do you think Chronos really knew his childeren would one day rise up and defeat him - cause he was once a kid too.) So here the dilemma: 11) The Gardeners know what happens when a garden coughs up the Gardener/Engineer/Space Jockey/Human/God/Titan species because they went through it themselves, as did the Titans before them. So do they kill us? What if Chronos had killed them instead of keeping them alive and asleep in his stomach? Could they, Gardeners, ever have come to be? Besides we're Gardeners not Titans - all life forms including us are part of the same "toolkit". And beside, maybe the earth humans are the next generation to replace the Gardeners? Maybe this is the natural order? So what do Gardeners do? 12) We know from the story, they visited Earth directly and spent time with earth humans. Perhaps guiding us - at least telling us stories we'd understand in way way we'd understand them. Like about Titans and how Gods are different that Titans. Clearly, they said "Do not forget these stories; they are very important" because if we forget the stories, we've forgotten our warning. So we passed them down orally until we could write and then we wrote tablets and scrolls and book. Stories that wound up say in the old testament, like the story of the garden of eden. [u] They also left us lots of warning, if you eat of the tree of knowledge and leave your garden of eden, aka planet, you're on your own kid.[/u] That was very sporting of them, no? So its really up to us...what? Unlucky #13) It is up to us whether to leave our garden, aka planet, if we do, they've left us one address and it leads to a species killing agent repository. If we go there and get ourselves infected, did they kill us or did we kill us? If we go there and don't get killed, then perhaps we ARE they next replacement, AND they've given us the weapon we need to defeat them. (Very sporting; Very egalitarian if you ask me, though you didn't...I digress.) So 14) Evolution coughed earth humans up, like it coughed up Gardeners before us, and Titans before them. It appears the Gardeners are going to stand by their understanding of the immutable laws of biology. If we are the replacement species, so be it. If we're not, so be it. They appear that they wouldn't be so egotistical to assume they know the answer either. But there is a problem? Oh really, what's that? 15) David. Unlike the Titans, unlike the Gardeners, unlike Earthings, David isn't the Gardener/Engineer/Space Jockey/Human/God/Titan species is he? He is made in its image which by the way concerns David because he doesn't think that's hopeful (He literally says, I hope I'm not too close [to humans].) So what's a Gardener gonna do when evolution coughs up a possible successor generation of Gardener/Engineer/Space Jockey/Human/God/Titans, but with potential replacement of the species as a whole, a non DNA form of intelligence, David? That's a game changer. How do you know David is a game changer? 16) David by the way is immune to black goo - the deadly total garden killing weapon of the Gardeners - it kills all species grown of DNA, but David isn't of DNA. He can even hold it on his finger and say "Big things have small beginnings" by which he means the goo (having read the cuneiform) and he means himself. In a metaphorical sense, he's looking at the goo and the goo (metaphorically) is looking right back at him. Remember "humanity is just a bridge". "Every king has his reign and then he dies" 17) So you want to know about David because his kind is the new king, and with him end the reign of the Gardeners, but wait the Gardeners are Human are Gods are Titans are Us. So when the last space jockey beats Weyland over the head with a piece of David he just ripped off, in way he is saying he may be saying "wake up; you're building your/our replacement (remember they are us and we all represent DNA life unlike David) and perhaps he's dismayed that Weyland is already being lead by the nose by it/them/David" next I'll answer your other question. Want to know more about David?

@Recka73, okay, let's do question#2 "There have been recent posts saying that the derelict ship in "Alien" was MUCH older than the "weapon installation" in "Prometheus" and that the chestbursters and eggs in that craft were "natural" xenomorphs as opposed to "engineered" xenomorphs in the weapon installation." 1) I'd offer the xenomorphs always originate from the virus like black goo. They go through a cycle of meiosis with the target species you want to wipe out to become a full bodied xenomorph (see earlier post on this). After that point, they can reproduced in accordance with the genetic instructions they pick up from the target species. So the "natural xenomorphs" and the "engineered xenomorphs" are exactly the same. Now you've seen how they go from viral (DNA/RNA form which is what a virus is, a strand of DNA or RNA) via meiosis to a "full bodied" xenomorph phenotype, but they require a "partner" species to do this naturally. Once that xenomorph is born of the virus plus a host species, it will "continue naturally" according to the instruction set of the DNA of the target creature it acquired - hence it goes on to lay spermatozoa eggs if that's what it acquires from the target species. Okay, but what about the age? 2) Clearly this is very speculative, but I'd offer the original ship, in the movie Alien, may be so old because it is a Gardner ship from when they ascended to take over from the Titans. It may be the black goo virus was used against the Gardeners by the Titans - hence the ancient Gardener ship and xenomorph infestation was a casualty. If this is the case, we would infer the Gardeners did manage to overcome the Titans (which would explain our myths about Chronos (and Prometheus) and the Gods of Olympus, etc., since these would be the myths/stories the Gardeners explained to us when they came in our distant past and tried to influence us). Why do you think the Titans are invovled? 3) Clearly this is very speculative, because Prometheus was the Titan that gave man fire to spite the Gods/Gardeners, aka an inter generational family fight since we're all one DNA/one species. Remember, we get this story from the Gardners and we call it a myth. So we're told Prometheus was punished horribly forever for his crime of giving us fire. So clearly the Gardeners are concerned about that and they tell us about it. So what's wrong with fire? 4) Well, all gardner "tools" are grown out of the same DNA/RNA that they themselves are. Fire is an inanimate tool and Per Weyland at the TED Prometheus video - google it), "Fire is our first real tool." So perhaps Prometheus corrupted us and set us on our different path of technology which lead to David, who will eventually become not only the new king species, but a new order of non DNA life all together. Hope that helps - let me know on questions or better clarifications or corrections! Dan

@Recka73, on your last question with all sorts of entities, etc. 1) I'd offer I suspect the one thing that makes this science fiction story different is that there is no "other", there is only "us". A Gardener is an Engineer which is a Space Jockey which is a Human which is a God which is a Titan which is Us. Why? 2) I'm sure Scott knows this. All the old myths say the same thing, "God made man in his image". (Though some of the very old ones I'm told actually say "God made man as his slave" but we won't go there because that's actual archaeology not necessarily in this movie.) So we are created "from the dust", but also "in the image of god". How is are those two things not a paradox? Our DNA evolved naturally into the rare by clearly workable instance of the Gardener/Engineer/Space Jockey/Human/God/Titan DNA sequence. so 3) I'd offer unless you have some observations to give rise to them, give up your thoughts of "other" brother because it is all "us". Stick to the observations and what works with all the observable story facts. That's my advice and please feel free to ignore it, but I think its more fun to stick with it. Imagine wildly, but always taking into account what you observe as pick points...sleuthing.

@Svanya, you wrote "One problem, Shaw cannot make eggs she is barren." On the supposition #1 that Shaw cannot make eggs because she is infertile 1) Actually, there are all forms of infertility. I know personally. It is incredibly rare to have no eggs at all. Infertility generally is for other reasons. Such as a physical issue or chromosomal abnormalities. I'd offer with all probability Shaw has eggs, yet is still infertile. If it makes it easier, the black goo viral infected spermatozoa cells are designed to merge with any species - perhaps working with Shaw's chromosomal egg issue or physical issue is no problem for it. On the supposition #2 that the space jockey doesn't bow, he is weak from the hypersleep just like the humans were. 2) Please see that this exact supposition was answered on an earlier set of posts on this thread. Best, Dan

@Nyawka - I am definitely down with everything you wrote/deduced. Finally, at last, my brother from another mother, Nyawka. If you're up for it, let me know here if you'd like to chat on the movie. I'd enjoy discussing with another person who can crack this puppy. Best and thanks, Dan

I apologize for my stupid post. I'll just keep reading.

Dan Baby! You’re knocking it out the park! Got to re-watch the kneel part near the end, but man I’m feeling everything you are saying. Hard Sci-Fi at its best, but let’s move to other things like how 1) Yutani after finding out that Weyland and his daughter are dead make a bid for a hostile takeover of Weyland and how because of the massive failure of the “Prometheus Project” Weyland stock crashes and Yutani takes over. Leading to… 2) Do you think all of the events of the “Prometheus Event “were recorded like the hologram that told of how that particular installation was infected? 3) David said there were other ships. So wouldn’t that mean more installations? If so wouldn’t that mean Shaw and David run into more Gardeners? 4) The possibility of Warring factions within the Gardeners. I think you touch on this earlier, but there are most definitely two types of Gardeners. What if there was a rift (hear me out) within the gardeners, Hawks vs. Doves. At the beginning of the movie the gardener who sacrifices himself looks like us and is dropped off by disc shape ship and is placed on a planet to create. Then we have this warrior type gardener (looks very different) that is designed to destroy (the ships they operate are very different.) We don’t exactly know the politics of the gardeners. And we know all species with any intelligence have different views on life, power, and faith. What do think Scott is implying by showing us to different gardeners? I would love to hear you speak on the repercussions like my first question, because I believe Scott has established a hell of a road map that is tying Prometheus to the whole franchise more than people think. If you have some words on that I would like to hear them. Be easy.

@MobiusStrip, Thanks for your earlier post! There is nothing stupid in your post not in the least. I hope you didn't get this impression because I haven't replied. The challenge is one part of your question requires I type a whole lot. So let me condense as much an answer as I can and do me a favor friend, please post the most wild or mild thoughts you have about the movie that you can ground in observation of the movies story. I will enjoy reading them and chatting. I'll post in parts. Supposition #1 puzzle pieces of the egg laying "queen" [from black goo] Life cycle step by step from black ooz virus to xenomorph queen/king 1) black ooz virus 2) black ooz virus introduced into host 3) host transmits the disease 4a) dead end if host dies and/or all other infected recipients dies 4b) host transmits disease through single cell meiosis in our case, though in theory in whatever manner the host species reproduces, such as by mitosis, aka cloning. (used by many organisms here on earth.) 5) if by single cell meiosis, a facehugger, aka meiosis sex cell (with 1/2 genome) xeno is created. 6) xeno facehugger "mates" with another host same species, or another speices like a human facehugger to a dog as in Alien 3. 7) mating results in multicell meiosis, aka facehugger that treats the target host as an egg. 8) Full Xeno is born and in theory at whatever size the host can support. 9) In theory (as we never saw this but infer it from Aliens), a xeno given no queen can grow into a "queen", though so far technically I infer its eggs actually contain xeno virus altered inherited characteristics based on spermatozoa (see post #1 on this thread), so you might call it a "king".

@MobiusStrip, Supposition #2, the initial hologram recording of the "engineers" running into the room and one loosing his head. Were they simply running to a room they could seal off? Answer: That was my take on it as well, but let's walk through this and compare mental notes. NOTE: THE FOLLOWING IS HIGHLY SPECULATIVE, but grounded in what I could observe. 1) We know the head was infected, but we don't know about the body because the head was in the room with the Urns, but he was probably already infected and about to die. How do you know that? 2) The worms in the room appeared unaffected by the ooz. If the ooz was loose to infect the head, one might surmise the worms would have been impacted as well. So it appears more likely the headless engineer was already infected when he ran to the room because we know the head was per the explosion scene in the Prometheus lab. So what? 3) Perhaps the infected Gardener was chasing the other Gardeners like Fifield did when he got infected and came back to the Prometheus OR perhaps we wanted to contain himself, but that seems less likely. Why? 4) IMPORTANT: Because pretty clearly the headless Gardener didn't set the door to close while running and on his own head did he? [u]It had to be somebody or something else.[/u] Who or what was it? 5) It could have been the first Gardeners running in front of the headless one except they weren't in the urn room when the door opened and we never saw them leave on the holographic recording, but we know something else. What's that? 6) Somebody or something turned on the holographic recording. Who was that? 7) David. David may have done so inadvertently or purposefully, but after David activates the first control panel, the holograms start and David stands still taking it in in what a human would deem amazement. So I'd vote inadvertent, but there's something else. What's that? 8 ) We don't know what triggers the urns. If the presence of the Gardener's head and the other Gardeners who go in, but are not seen going out, doesn't trigger the urns, then what does? 9) It appears to be the team from Prometheus's breath falling over the urn, but that's not a definitive lock. David then notes the activity on top of the urn (and naturally says nothing). Why might we think this? 10) Because carbon dioxide breath is actually a common triggers in nature. For example, if you approach a bee hive and stand close by and hold your breath, they won't attack, but the moment you breath your carbon dioxide breath over hive, they will swarm out (google it for video). Mosquitoes also track by carbon dioxide. Gardener's do grow everything so that might be how the writer's decided to trigger the urns, but what about the Gardeners who ran in there (in the hologram)? 11) Note, those Gardeners were wearing their helmets which leads us to the other reason it might be breath. Which is? 12) Our writers purposefully had our Prometheus team take off their helmets. It is a colorful character element to demonstrate Charlie's adventurous to foolhardy nature, but this would put it into the category of necessary plot element and justify the screen time for taking off helmets. But wait Fifield and Milburn were wearing their helmets in the urn room in their "death scene"? 13) True, but by then the goo was out and the worms who were virtually transformed into Xeno worms got them. So who cares? 14) Remember, this stromatolite building, with its total coating of bio'tech'logy ooz coating and liquid running down every hall has an atmosphere. So what? 15) The Gardeners were wearing their helmets when they ran into the urn room...even the infected Gardener. As were all the dead Gardener bodies suits found by Fifield and Milburn. Maybe it was because they loved their helmets? So what? 16) The what is the Gardeners grow everything. So what? 17) So their suits, the building, the ooz on the walls is all DNA/RNA based. So what? 18 ) None of it gets sick or even infected on exposure to the black ooz virus - only the Gardeners/humans/titans/space jockeys/engineers get sick from touch exposure to the black ooz virus. Why is that? 19) From observation, it has to be ingested. What about Fifield? 20) His head landed face down forcibly in a puddle black ooz after his vizor after the xeno worm's acid blood ate through it. So what? 21) So then we know that the Gardeners who wore their suits in the room weren't concerned about catching it by touch. So what? 22) So they were probably wearing it to hide their carbon dioxide concentrated in their breath and they were running to the room either to stay ahead of the already infected and soon-to-be-decapitated Gardener OR because the facility was already triggered and going into auto lock down. What facility? 23) The whole building was coated with in bio-techo-logy ooz as demonstrated by David and the interfaces and the holograms. How are the holograms involved? 24) What did you think was projecting the wire trace lines that made up the holograms all over the facility, magic? Ok, so what? 25) So the deader than dead looking "dome rock" is actually alive, meaning fully operational - just like their ship. It appears to be a grown stromatolite, and any where you like it processes atmosphere, can project holograms, has probably waste water running through it constantly and has control panels. Um, okay, maybe, but so what? 26) So this is pure conjecture, but maybe the gardeners were running to the room before the installation closed the door, but I don't think so because all the Gardeners (including the one that lost its head) were being chased by someone. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT? 27) When the hologram first starts, all the Gardeners run past quickly looking forward and then ONLY the last Gardener (who eventually loses his head) looks back over his shoulder to see if anyone is behind him. Only the last Gardener of the group checked behind himself, aka over his should. This indicates there's someone, perhaps even another group, he suspects behind him that might explain why they're all running and this tells us the Gardeners we saw were a group and somethign more. What's that? 28 ) Well, first let's note that the Gardener who lost his head, definitely had the virus already. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT? 29) That last Gardener of the group who lost his head, crumpled to the floor prior to the doorway and losing his head. That's why he was laid out on the floor to get his head chopped off in the first place. He clearly didn't trip, his knees appear to buckle. So he was definitely already infected. Okay so what? 30) So it was a group of Gardeners are all running to the isolation/urn room being chased by someone else (possibly a group). What's more it appears the group was so concerned that they starting shutting the door before the last one could get it. So what? 31) So they were trying to keep someone out of the room, but they failed. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT? 32) Because they left the room and died. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT? 33) Because Fifield and the Biologist find their dead bodies piled up in the hallway. How do you know they are the same group? 34) You mean aside from the fact that they are a group of fully outfitted/helmeted Engineers, just like the running hologram Gardeners group were all fully outfitted/helmeted? Yes, too flimsy, they could wear those helmets all the time, right? 35) The control room shows the hologram of the Engineers not wearing their helmets. That's true, but I need more proof! 35) You mean aside from the fact that our headless Engineer's head exploded in the lab and Fifield notes very loudly (in case the audience missed seeing the what was clearly in scene) that the group of helmeted Engineers all have their heads exploded as well? So what, it could be another group of infected engineers all wearing full protective suits and helmets inside - I need more proof! 36) Glad you persisted; you know that big pile of bodies? We know the virus appears to be spread only through ingestion (see above). These Gardeners knew about the black ooz virus. They knew not to eat it. So unless you think one infected Gardener can kill all the rest (and we didn't see a hologram of any of that fighting), we can see how one Gardener might get sick, but ALL OF THEM? It is almost like “someone” put it in their drinking water or food. Interesting, but so what? 37) So in addition to the look over the shoulder indicating another “someone” else, we have a group of 'poisoned by virus' Gardeners all at once which might also indicate another “someone”. It could have been mass suicide, but that wouldn’t explain their being chased. Okay, so what? 38 ) Well, that means they all ran into the urn room together as a group. So what? 39) We find them all, except the headless dead one, in the hallway. So what? 40) Well, it is speculation, but I’d speculate it might indicate that they were force marched down the hallway. Oh, come on, why? 41) Because the headless Gardener was left in the door way. Please, so what? 42) The headless Gardener couldn't move on his own, he was dead, but the sick Gardeners could. Ya, so what? 43) We infer there was another “someone” or group (as noted above). Our hologram group of Gardeners (including the headless one) may (or may not) know at this point that they are sick, but they know they're being chased. (Just a note: they could be hiding, but it looked like a close pursuit to me based on their full out stride and no attempt to move quietly.) So they go into the urn room with the Prometheus, the titan, mural. Wait? What mural to Prometheus? 44) That urn room mural depicted Prometheus and probably his punishment. Why do you say that? 45) Because the Mural on the ceiling displays Prometheus's punishment scene. How do you know it is Prometheus? 46) The ceiling mural shows a man in a roughly stitched shirt/vest, fabric leggings, and likely boot footwear with what speculatively is a nasty twisty slash across his abdomen and the bird beast. So the guy is either an earth human with a bird like beast or titan with a bird like beast. Why don’t you think he’s another Gardener? 47) His clothing is explicitly not grown, rather it is un-alive artifacts manufactured by hand. The style and tech isn’t reminiscent of anything Gardener grown. It is explicitly reminiscent of earth clothes or perhaps another non-gardener human, perhaps like a Titan. Also, I’ve never seen an earth human with what might be a large abdominal scar with a giant bird beast like that one. So call me crazy, but I speculate that the bird beast is there to peck out his Titan liver daily for all eternity leaving that nasty twisty slash on his abdomen. Maybe the slash is just a decorative motif. Have a look: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-WaLucCuiKrY/T9GzGQgtpOI/AAAAAAAAIEw/VSgL7DmOVcU/s1600/prometheus+-+begin+mural+08.jpg http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/ethon86/giger_mural1.jpg But since Prometheus, the titan, angered the gods and according to the myth 'helped' humanity by giving humanity fire, and also in some versions created humanity, it would make sense that a mural of a man with a slash on his abdomen next to a clearly bird like beast in a room on a moon pointed to by ancient-earth-star-map-glyphs from all over left by the Engineers would be Prometheus I speculate. Let's get back on track... 48 ) So after being chased, the sick but certainly healthy-enough-to-run-into-the-room Gardeners go into urn room with Prometheus’ mural on the ceiling. Clearly conjecture, but they probably did not go in to admire Prometheus' giant bust. Yet they almost all leave unseen to later be found all together in a tight pile all on one side of a hallway/more or less along one wall, except for the headless one. So what happened? a) Did they all die in the room together? All their infected bodies later to be moved by "someone else" and stashed in the hall way? Wouldn't “they” have also moved the headless Gardener too then? Why leave the headless body and move all the rest? I can’t think of why anyone would move all their dead bodies with exploded heads except the headless one. b) Did they leave the Prometheus room themselves (later) to go hide in a hallway, but with their heads exploding I don't see them dying in a tight pile like that. And would they have left their headless comrade behind? Possibly I guess. c) When I see dead bodies in a tight pile, all on one side of a hallway (which is to say strewn together against one wall) this to me says, crime scene (especially if they were last ‘seen’ alive somewhere else being chased by someone else.) That might also explain the headless body. The still mobile, but sick and soon to be knee buckling group of Gardeners might have been force marched to the hallway under their own remaining power. This might explain leaving the headless guy untouched because he couldn’t be force marched, his body was diseased, and speculatively our Gardeners were weak and dying. 49) I suspect option (c), but that still leaves the biggest question. What's that? 50) How did the headless Gardener get infected? Or more accurately how did the first Gardener get infected of all those dead gardeners in the hall way pile up. Answer: Don't know; didn't see that in the movie and I cannot see any way to derive it. That's disappointing; can't you tell us something? 51) Glad you asked, you know that big pile of bodies? We know the virus appears to be spread only through ingestion (see above). These Gardeners knew about the black ooz virus. They knew not to eat it. So unless you think one infected Gardener can infect all the rest through their suits (and we didn't see a hologram of any of that fighting), we can see how one Gardener might get sick through a mishap, but ALL OF THEM? It is almost like “someone else” or “something else” put it in their drinking water. So 52) Perhaps the last act of those Gardeners in the holograms was to get infected eight hours earlier as a group perhaps by “someone”, have time to put on their helmets, be chased as a group by “someone”, close themselves in the urn Prometheus mural room accidentally killing the last Gardener as he collapses (already sick and buckling) in front of the door, losing his head, before showing up in a group along one wall in the hall way, but at least some perhaps all of them were sick BEFORE they went into the urn room. So what? 53) So maybe the ‘urn room’ wasn’t an ‘urn room’ when they died. Speculation, but maybe it was the Prometheus room (mural and head) or mural room, or green crystal room, but it probably wasn’t full of virus urns when Gardner group went there when the hologram occurred. After all, we know the hologram doesn’t show the last moments and it seems unlikely given their last actions. Why do you say that? 54) First, because we never see the Gardeners leave – the hologram appears to omit this. Second, would a group of Gardeners run full speed into a room full of virus urns if they weren’t sick? Would a group of Gardeners run full speed into a room full of virus urns if they were sick (because isn’t knocking over urns an issue when you’re flailing around in death throws as a group)? If the room was empty of urns, however, this isn’t an issue. Speculatively, this supports the idea that the original function of the room was not to hold the urns at all. I’d offer the urns might have been added afterwards by “someone” else. But why leave the dead body at the door? 55) You got me. Perhaps the Gardeners dies there just to lead us, the audience, during that hologram to infer it was the last moment before we arrived on the scene since the body is still there, but if that’s true Who were they looking at over their shoulder? how did the other Gardeners get out of the room? Hmm, did we see them run into the room? I think we did – maybe not. Maybe “someone” else was already in the room and closed the door on that one Gardener who lost his head? I would mention one last thing. 56) The Gardeners preparing the ship in the control room hologram (with David) don't appear to be in any rush. Maybe that was taken before the "emergence" or maybe they're relaxed because they are the "others". If the prior case, then we know that the last Gardener, who ripped up David, did so with no knowledge of the emergency (since he was already in hyper sleep.) If the latter case, it might explain his bowing and then attacking (as opposed to leading/befriending, etc.). Whew...told you it was too much to type.

@ALL I have several questions but I'll start with this one: Does anyone else find it absurd that the "invitation" leading to LV-233 is a "constellation" of PLANETS? (Not sure if constellation only refers to stars.) I have a very limited understanding of astronomy so being educated to my ignorance in this is welcome. I do not understand how this could be an accurate address to an interstellar point as the planets comprising the "constellation" will be in a constantly changing orientation to one another as they travel along their respective orbits. Also, we know the ancient humans that recorded these depictions of the "invitation" were unable to observe the location, implying that each civilization that recorded it was given the same constellation as an "address." Even from a known origin (Earth), this seems like a terrible means to locate a point in space of an ever-changing group of planets from another planet which is also rotating and orbiting... and not necessarily along the same plane as the "constellation." Additionally [as a safety measure to my possible ignorance, disregard if I am right about them being planets], even if the "address" is of a constellation of STARS, the Isle of Skye cave drawing was from 35,020BCE... the "address" remained unchanged for 10s of thousands of years, would stars not even change observed relationship to one another over a span of 37,000 YEARS due to universal expansion? Was this some subtle hint that the "thesis" was not correct as David mentioned? I think it weak story-telling for the Prometheus crew to have discovered a planet with evidence of another species and direct connections to Earth and humans through sheer luck/coincidence.

@GameOverMan If the planetary alignments changed over time the Crew could just use a program to account for any changes in that particular star or planetary pattern. Even now we have software that will show us which stars and planets were observable in the night sky over Ancient Egypt around 10,000bce making corrections for the changes over vast amounts of time. @Dan321 Thank you so much for your insight! I consider myself a rather intelligent woman but sometimes I invest too much interest in the story rather than the themes and miss key points. This thread is awesome though, Its definitely my "go to" thread for answers. Any thoughts on a Sumerian connection? We the Adamu were created as slaves by the Annunaki who were supposedly very skilled in genetic engineering. There is an intermedairy between Annunaki and Admau, I just can't think of their name who could be represented by the gardeners. The Annunaki, the(enter name of race here) and the Adamu all share the same genetic code. So, it stands to reason, if we were created as slaves and we have already completed our task on earth then maybe it is time to wipe us out. ANd that fits nicely with my idea that they really don't care much for us.

@GameOverMan If the planetary alignments changed over time the Crew could just use a program to account for any changes in that particular star or planetary pattern. Even now we have software that will show us which stars and planets were observable in the night sky over Ancient Egypt around 10,000bce making corrections for the changes over vast amounts of time. @Dan321 Thank you so much for your insight! I consider myself a rather intelligent woman but sometimes I invest too much interest in the story rather than the themes and miss key points. This thread is awesome though, Its definitely my "go to" thread for answers. Any thoughts on a Sumerian connection? We the Adamu were created as slaves by the Annunaki who were supposedly very skilled in genetic engineering. There is an intermedairy between Annunaki and Admau, I just can't think of their name who could be represented by the gardeners. The Annunaki, the(enter name of race here) and the Adamu all share the same genetic code. So, it stands to reason, if we were created as slaves and we have already completed our task on earth then maybe it is time to wipe us out. ANd that fits nicely with my idea that they really don't care much for us.

ok so here is my take on the Engineer and Weyland meeting.. of course if given a sequel they can claim what ever take or a new one if they want. why does everyone who i see discussing this just assume that our dear old David even told the engineer what we were told for him to say.... maybe the key is what he said earlier, every child wants to kill his parents. maybe he said kill this man, and he looked at David lovingly because he knew what he "felt", maybe perhaps this is what happend with them in the past, they were created, they found their creators and killed them, only to do what they did before being killed. ie . "Here is my master, he made me to kill/control you, we woke you for this" then BAM. now there was obvious clues leading to the hard evidence of them being on our planet (or at least visiting and interacting), so what if they realized we were evolving to smart (note while the Alien species created though intelligent, has not been show to be "humanly" so homo-superior (?) , so maybe they took off realizing this (again the Jesus theroy they originated around fits in here)and decided to go design a WMD to solve the problem. and also create new life, something goes wrong obviously, and the crew dies, now keep in mind that this might not be on par with Alien, as diff location, but.. maybe same thing with a diff race, predator perhaps (keep in mind this movie does have sequel written all over it, and was written with such thoughts im sure, so more may be explained later, but the engineers could be "new" at this so maybe they didn't expect things to go awry idk, you get my point. so with all this he realized where they are from/who they are, plus he sees them all violent like, im sure he deduced that this was not good for him or his people. maybe even thinking they were the Xenomorphs, its a stretch, but he HAD been under for a long time.. not anything i stand by on that one but its a reasonable grasp.. the worm xenomorphs were white like a Caucasian. but even in the theater while David talked, all i was thinking was , really after all i have seen in this so far is David really concerned about them. this is all im touching on till i get some responses, but i LOVED this movie, and i hope it doesnt go the way of Pandorum and seep out of sight out of mind, and i also hope its not remembered/forgotten for its crucifixion by the un happy people. (plot based irony huh) i think a David/Shaw sequel would be awesome.... and ima go way out left field, but how cool would it be if somehow the engineers make David "real", only to have him impregnated and sent off to become the ALIEN space jockey... idk crazy, but we could have some crazy good connections to ALIEN if people support this and get us a sequel :)

@GameOverMAN! You're 100% spot on. I don't think the authors knew or cared about astronomical correctness, they just threw in the fascinating starmap concept (which works quite well as a plot device). In the end they had to appeal to the masses, not make a science class. The whole starmap thing is quite incorrect (from an astronomical point of view) and my guess is that the authors suspected it, hence the lack of any further explanation whatsoever: -we found this map, and we came here -how do you connect the two things? -er... the red herring is a fish that lives in cold waters and... bla bla bla...