Alien Movie Universe

A Theory: Prometheus is a cruel postmodernist joke and a structural clone of New

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gchristnsn

MemberOvomorphJul-20-2012 2:46 PM
[b]A brief explanation of the postmodernist theory[/b] The point of postmodernism is in that there is no way to obtain an objective truth. The idea originates from the notion that there is a at least three contexts for any given text in the postmodernist wold: author's context, linguistic context and reader's context. The contexts may differ and there could be several (even opposing) meanings of a text if the text have vague internal structure, and in general there is no way to check if an obtained meaning matches author's meaning. But if the text has unambiguous internal structure but just obfuscated (connections between some facts are intentionally broken) it's possible to reconstruct more or less non-contradictory variant of it (using logical tests, moreover the structure should be as simple as possible, which implies that only facts from the story should be used) and interpret the text in a right context (this generally should be the substrate context), this may give a meaning close to author's one. [b]What is Neon Genesis Evangelion[/b] NGE is a very complex obfuscated narrative and cruel postmodernist joke which provokes zillions of interpretations, although it very detailed and has very solid internal structure (which is hidden by obfuscation). There are some common points between NGE and Prometheus: - Twofold name: in NGE it names fighting machines and the hidden story (the Kabbalistic salvation of the humanity by transformation of it into Adam Kadmon through an artificially created messiah, this resembles events from the Gospel and evangelion means gospel in Greek); in Prometheus it names the spaceship and denotes the process of the creation of the humanity through direct reference to mythological Prometheus (the person who created the humanity remembers a figure from Greek epos). - Creation of the humanity through a demiurge: in NGE the demiurge is Lilith created by the first ancestral race which referenced as "God", in Prometheus this is the person which resembles a Greek titan from the race of progenitors which formally is a god of the humanity. - Presence of a heavy symbolic layer which hides the substrate layer (so, at least two non-contradictory intrerpretations could be obtained): in NGE the symbolic layer is Kabbalah and the substrate layer is alien science of the first ancestral race, in Prometheus the symbolic layer is the Christianity and the substrate layer is Alien franchise (so it may be interpreted in the context of the Christianity and the Alien franchise). - Both stories contain signs of obfuscation (for example, a link between worms from the sanctuary, "facehuggers" and the dead jockeys exist, but it's not shown directly). So, the Prometheus obviously is a yet another cruel postmodernist joke which most likely could not be reliably interpreted, because there are no enough details for this (so only simplest interpretations which are use as little additional entities as possible would look credible). Prometheus has one radical difference from NGE, it doesn't contain a bright emotional entertainment layer, so it not attracts general public as NGE does and looks mediocre.
13 Replies

deftones1986

MemberOvomorphJul-20-2012 2:53 PM
This is pretty much EXACTLY what I've been trying to say about why the movies vague questions can't be answered. And each time I kept falling short and being misinterpreted. Thank you, great theory!

David 1

MemberOvomorphJul-20-2012 4:10 PM
You forgot to mention Phenomenology as the root of the so called Post-Modernism movement.
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]

David 1

MemberOvomorphJul-20-2012 4:39 PM
yes, now think about Kant, Hegel and Husserl regarding Art and you've got it
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]

deftones1986

MemberOvomorphJul-20-2012 4:23 PM
Intuition Intuition in phenomenology refers to those cases where the intentional object is directly present to the intentionality at play; if the intention is "filled" by the direct apprehension of the object, you have an intuited object. Having a cup of coffee in front of you, for instance, seeing it, feeling it, or even imagining it - these are all filled intentions, and the object is then intuited. The same goes for the apprehension of mathematical formulae or a number. If you do not have the object as referred to directly, the object is not intuited, but still intended, but then emptily. Examples of empty intentions can be signitive intentions - intentions that only imply or refer to their objects. Evidence In everyday language, we use the word evidence to signify a special sort of relation between a state of affairs and a proposition: State A is evidence for the proposition "A is true." In phenomenology, however, the concept of evidence is meant to signify the "subjective achievement of truth."[8] This is not an attempt to reduce the objective sort of evidence to subjective "opinion," but rather an attempt to describe the structure of having something present in intuition with the addition of having it present as intelligible: "Evidence is the successful presentation of an intelligible object, the successful presentation of something whose truth becomes manifest in the evidencing itself."[9]

Cypher

Co-AdminMemberOvomorphJul-20-2012 6:14 PM
I can't wait to see the next Rebuild of Evangelion movie. I love that stuff :-D
[url=http://www.robocopmovie.net/][img]http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac89/snorkelbottom/NewRoboBanner.jpg[/img][/url] "Is it dead this time?" "I dunno, poke it with this stick and see."

nysalor

MemberOvomorphJul-20-2012 5:29 PM
Post-structuralism rather than postmodernism is probably the more meaningful term, at least in the social sciences. Phenomenology is one root of post-structuralism: cultural relativism and semiotics also have a long history in anthropology. As the name suggests, however, it is largely a reaction to the excesses of structuralist metanarrative. A lot of the structural similarity comes from the fact that both Lost, in Space and NVE stem from Old Testament myth - though NVE has the additional (but not uncommon in Japanese anime) misreading/misunderstanding of Christian themes. NVE makes an interesting family comparison to LIS. You might also note that LIS uses the plotline of Aliens versus Predator. LIS is a group artefact, with contributions from hundreds of people. With so much bad storytelling evident (lack of coherent character motivation, character development, story arc, story resolution, plus poor dialogue and overall dumbness) much of the vageness can simply be put down to incompetence in the script and direction. It's hard to be deep when you're banal. :) Is it intentional or is it just noise? Any symbol is multivalent - string three random symbols together and the human mind will generate a story. This doesn't mean it is intentional art. LIS is certainly a joke, but it's probably a bad joke.

genjitsu17

MemberOvomorphJul-20-2012 5:32 PM
Evangelion rules!!
I may work for the company, but im really an OK guy.

David 1

MemberOvomorphJul-20-2012 5:43 PM
nysalor: Nicely said Sir.
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]

genjitsu17

MemberOvomorphJul-20-2012 6:53 PM
1.11 and 2.22 were both great.
I may work for the company, but im really an OK guy.

deftones1986

MemberOvomorphJul-20-2012 7:24 PM
A different view but on the same lines as your theory. Created by me: [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/9291]Infinite regress[/url]

allinamberclad

MemberOvomorphJul-20-2012 7:57 PM
"A cruel post-modernist joke".....Indeed. @deftones1986 I'm not all that sure that fact would be something of merit? @nysalor Well said. I'd only say, for myself, that Art under these terms may well be, "intentional", Art: if it declares itself as such - but, yes: that declaration alone does not determine the award... Depending on the medium, seems to me that the risk is high that Art under those terms would be unlikely to have much in the way of an actual meaning - and, perhaps, little in the way of actual value.

Custodian

MemberOvomorphJul-21-2012 1:15 AM
The suggestion that 10-11-12 is going to reveal something about the obfuscatory nature of the 'Weyland footage' in Prometheus is beginning to fill me with DREAD. "What is the lie that covers this [i]Uber-mensch[/i] lie?" Very weird LOST-ish dread.
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...

deftones1986

MemberOvomorphJul-22-2012 12:23 AM
Yeah, I've never seen LOST but I'm getting a pretty big feeling that it was "confusing" and not in a good way. That was me being sarcastic, but no I've never seen it, and for apparent reasons. Anyway, if this all turns out to be some science experiment, or alternate universe, or a dream, or "they're all replecants" or androids, or some kind of cliche dead horse being beat. It better be so magnificent and appealing, and make sense, or else I'm gonna, well I'm not gonna do anything except be really pissed off. You don't just present your fanbase with a billion questions, hint at something not big but GIGANTIC that is presumed to happen months after the movies initial release, and then just smack a sticker on it that says....."The twist is you know, kinda the same old rehashed twist you've seen before, but it just has Ridley Scotts name on it so you better love it." NO. Just NO NO NO. If THAT happens, just Nooooooooooooooo! [img]http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs3/1373070_o.gif[/img]
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