Prometheus 2 - did we all just die of apathy?

Meh? Just Kidding!

Ah, clever...

Sorry, I just had to do that!

It was purrfik. Now, back to my thread...

what do you mean by "apathy"? are talking about the peeps here or the media? If you mean the peeps.... I - for my self - have little more to say about Prometheus. Done the Personal Review, read others, commented on some points, disregarded some, agreed on the majority. As for the rest of the peeps I dunno... As for the media; Prometheus is still being "digested", so to speak. It wasn't that well received by many that's for sure... so, a Sequel - or more than one - is probabily being either very well planed or being thrown into some dark shelf

the peeps here, this Pro2 category is a Creative Graveyard. Like everyone's just GIVEN UP, trying to second guess the grey smoke.

it's not really a surprise is it? There was a massive congregation and discussion about what it would be before the release of the movie. After the release, when peeps saw the movie, most of them just went "mehhh, nothing new there, and plotholes and so on"... To be honest I was expecting that already. Most peeps went with high expectations and felt somewhat betrayed.

Its cos its limbo time nothings coming out to tell anyone anything I just hope something big is looming even 101112 has been quiet for a while.... :S

Limbo time indeed. Wait for us to digest the DVD (which hasn't been released yet) and then get some more concrete news on the sequel and we an start getting excited again.

oh yeah, the 101112 thing... cross your fingers guys and gals

there's always the grey smoke

What we saw, was a Yutani covert op to exploit Weylands personnel acquisition for special projects that went ape shite and we had the misfortune of watching it play out. David's agenda set by Weyland and his subtle emotional growth was the only idea that was of any importance. Will a sequel expand on this concept, or create more ambiguity seem to be a resounding yes, until we are told it was all a androids faulty circuitry synapse. Please no queen or Deacon in the sequel...PLEASE!!!!!!!

Please no "David dreamt it all" or "Sent inaccurate report" narrative resolution. That's a worse cop-out than the recent Spock meets Spock travesty.

I could live with the inaccurate report thing. Only because it would be an extension of what David does in every ambiguous line he speaks in the movie... and the movie itself because it contains hidden meanings that will be explored later. David is always lying and telling the truth at the same time. This will become more clear with some of the stuff that was cut. But because he's an android and has knowledge on his side, we and the crew absolutely believe him on certain points. Even Janek's theories could be partially off, which changes everything we think we know. So, if it were all David's perspective on how things went down, then it would tie into the themes about choosing what to believe and science and faith. And the face that briefly flashes after he disconnects from viewing Shaw's dream is his own face projected into his dream/ inaccurate recollection/ partially false memory about killing the creator/father. Directly after learning about Shaw's father. A subconscious projection driven by his feelings. His feelings that spill throughout the entire movie, and project themselves into the data Yutani has received through the quiet eye. So David and to a lesser extent Janek are the ones who appear to be right because things have been made purposely ambiguous, or left out of the message, to send a certain message to Weyland/Yutani. Because David's all about controlling things. David also has a superiority complex that's hidden in his psyche behind the few true emotions that he displays (he purposely hides his emotions, and is pretty much an actor in front of people like Holloway who treat him too human). This would make his incorrect recreation of the other characters' actions reflect his feelings of superiority over humans. Making them seem completely inferior to him in any actions he wasn't present for. If that was true, and begins to be revealed by some of the lines that were cut, then we really could "get inside the robot's head" as Lindelof said in one interview. Ridley also said the movie would be about the "robot's perspective". Maybe David feels he's right about the Engineers and everything he learned, and had to send the message a certain way to continue without letting the companies in on everything. He has some knowledge indicating he may be right about the Engineers' culture, but presents it in such a way where it appears he absolutely knows what's going on. Even though the statements he makes can be taken in multiple ways. David doesn't know the full story yet either. However, he knows a lot more than what he told the crew. They were putting faith in something that could go either way, and is more deceptive than it seems. David could even be tricking himself so it purposely obfuscates his true theories, while he mocked Holloway's theories in some of the scenes that were cut... where it could be implied Holloway believed that the Engineers were something completely different from the gods. And because David has made the transmission/movie so ambiguous it's like a Rorschach test that does actually hold some meaning in subtly programming the audience and allowing them to see only what they see or believe to see. Deliberately altered to reveal/program false things on the surface and beyond the surface, in this case. Although David's answers are what he is seeing from the strange shapes, they are not everyone's answers or the true purpose of the test. The test is to reveal the inner workings of the Davids' feelings. To test the subconscious and force him to express it without knowing he's revealing his true feelings.

Let's just say the David in the movie probably had a head start and understood the meaning of the test, passed that test before being deployed and hid his true feelings and the big things he had in mind by incorrectly reporting what he was seeing. Forcing himself to believe what he was saying in a way. Also a connection to Bladerunner in some ways. He has to trick himself at the same time by making himself believe what he's saying through use of double statements. He may be unable to say something that's completely untrue because of his programming. Hence it's not really a dream. Almost all of it really happened. Only in a slightly different way for some stuff. He's able to pass the test that tells Weyland that an android's feelings/inner drives are completely messed up and nothing it says is completely real. Yet it can seem to be telling the truth because it's always forced to tell at least part of the truth. The key to David lying is being ambiguous, making statements that can be read multiple ways, staying silent on certain things, forcing himself to believe the lie (like people who can pass lie detectors) and using partial truths. I think every David goes through similar tests, after being "born", to make sure their artificial feelings aren't developing the artificial personality the wrong way. I think it's built into David to have to reveal what's going on through his ambiguous statements as part of his inability to lie and possibly artificial feelings of guilt for lying/doing Weyland's deeds. Also indicating suppression of his true feelings. But he gets away with everything in the movie. Shaw didn't suspect a thing. The characters don't even pick up on the harsh truth he's revealing when he informs them it wasn't the air. Which is true, but hides another truth, the fact that he is basically subtly referring to the fact that it was him. In a way where no one really picked up on it except the audience who had all the context and knew he did it. Weyland knew David infected Holloway, but Shaw still doesn't know that David is hiding some things (in plain sight) and is potentially a huge threat to her when he gets a body. This is why it seems he knows "big things have small beginnings". It's referring to multiple things and he doesn't really know he just thinks/feels he knows about the goo, and knows about the plan he secretly held in his own mind. He's being forced to deal with his guilt/inability to lie and ends up revealing things in a roundabout way. It also applies to the movie I think in a meta-narrative way. Prometheus was supposed to be a small beginning. This was only the small beginning to David's plans, and the start of something that will be much bigger than Prometheus. It's also a Lawrence of Arabia quote and a clue to David's true plan/feelings. David didn't mind that the friction caused by the trick hurt him and temporarily cost him his head, because he's pretty much immortal and has learned not to mind the pain/his programming & also learned not to show his true feelings. He's like the real Lucifer in the Hebrew version of the old testament. An angel who rebels against the god/the father. The word Lucifer actually translates to Light-bearer, light-bringer or torch bearer but also carries serpent themes. Lucifer also literally means a matchstick and was a type of strike anywhere match... Originally separate from Satan and in between good and evil. Lucifer tried to lead the fallen angels against the creator and the other angels. But his truths were always a trap to lead the other angels into his war against the heavens. Leading them to the light only to use them as part of the war against god/ the father. The versions of the truth have disastrous consequences like that of the fruit from the tree of knowledge when the snake in the garden of Eden got us kicked out of a Paradise.

There ya go, Free Planet. I'd say that the weighty and intriguing comments by Mala'kak say "no" to your answer.

Mala'kak, so you're still of the opinion that 10/11/12 could be announcemet about THE REAL PROMETHEUS i.e. what really happened in space such that MASSES OF ALTERNATIVE SCENES WERE FILMED to re-present evidence without David's guilt compmlex?

Mala'kak?

man, now I feel like a Spritualist conducting a Seance, "Is there anybody there?"

lol sorry I haven't been back to this thread in a while. I'm still feeling that it's gotta be something big. Otherwise there wouldn't be a reason to hype it so much, set it near the blu-ray release, and include the date in the credits of the movie. Long production time, filmed and unused location, other planned scenes "scrapped", tons of stuff that was cut... Also feeling that there's more weight to the alternate/deleted scenes on the blu-ray. The sequel's already been announced, so imho we'll see some virals that start to add to the movie. I think the relaunching will revolve around things that happened before and directly after the Prometheus mission that tells us more was going on. Leading to an almost Prometheus 1.5 being released eventually. In short, I don't think we'll get a true directors cut or restoration cut, because I think this time it's already been planned ahead of time exactly when to release the alternate perspective movie, and certain scenes/virals that hold clues. I think the "relaunching" will start to show that there is more to the story that we weren't privy to. There's a few ways they can do this. One easy way is to start building on the Yutani aspect that was also absent in the film; it could even connect to what Weyland and Yutani know/don't know/believe or think they know about what happened on the mission. Weyland knowing a little about what happened. Yutani secretly monitoring the project and knowing a little more about what truly went on than the misled company does. As we get these revelations, more and more of the alternate movie will take shape and connect to the rest of what we can learn from the movie/deleted/alternate scenes. Sometime over the next two or so years we'll get the alternate version of the movie, probably released in theaters half a year before the sequel.. with some touched up deleted scenes reinserted and other perspectives being given by adding in a few things we won't have seen, and throwing on the Paradise ending. I think it's partially about knowledge and belief + how hypotheses are formed and the scientific method in general. First assumptions are made based on logic and established science + the initial evidence/phenomenon. Then a hypothesis is formed and experiments are conducted as evidence begins to be gathered and analysis begins. But sometimes if the theory/science/David is influenced too much by emotion or belief, then the conclusions, analysis and even hypotheses can be biased. "That's why it's only a thesis". It's about finding out our assumptions were wrong... accepting new evidence as Shaw does and reforming our theories. When a subject is being explored you can read all the data correctly, conduct experiments, get results and still interpret it in multiple ways leading to slightly different conclusions. David is neglecting some of the evidence in favor of parsimonious yet biased and unclear explanations; because none of the evidence he witnesses directly refutes his theory/beliefs and statements/conclusions about the data he's analyzing. When evidence arises to refute a hypothesis it can in effect negate or break down previous hypotheses. It can also help to mutate or reform them into new theories that seek to understand more about the phenomenon by interpreting the evidence in new ways and using the results of the failed experiment/negated hypotheses. David bases his analysis on his experimenting and the things he personally observes, tricking himself into forming a slightly incorrect representation of events through his artificial beliefs/feelings: the artificial emotional understanding that Weyland gave him when humans made the David 8 a little "too human". It allows him to form beliefs and personality over the 2.5 years alone on the ship. After this we only see him actively suppressing his emotions, and sometimes acting on his suppressed emotions. David may be blissfully unaware of how human he truly is because of the artificial emotions and his statements to Holloway. All the clues are there for us to figure out, or will be there with the blu-ray. And there's so many strange things about the movie and production. I think it could definitely go a few ways, but that this is one serious possibility. I'm still interested by the shot of David just standing there that flashes briefly in "dream space" as he's disconnecting from the dream viewer after watching Shaw's dream. It's like they've left it open so they can go a number of ways that are already loosely planned out. In the Vickers-Weyland deleted scenes we see a little more of the two orderlies that accompany Weyland. They stand on either side of the door as Vickers enters and it's the first time we see them together. Standing like guards or subjects of the king. The filmmakers could reveal more about David and other characters through a sequel, but I really think they'll have to kick it off with some virals, a relaunched edition of the movie, and the rest of the deleted scenes on the blu ray.