Ambiguity Debate - Q4 - Drones & Warriors

Snorkelbottom I believe the sj was facehugged and died from chestbursting. I have no idea however how a facehugger would get from its egg to the sj if nothing triggered it. Prom sEems to indicate that the air in the jugg is not breathable during flight. Why would the engineer in the hypersleep chamber be waring a oxygen mask to breathe. Except if the sj can move around while wearing a biosuit. Then how was he facehugged fully awake wearing a biosuit ? I have no conclusive answer on specifically how and where he was facehugged. Sorry.

[quote]I have no idea however how a facehugger would get from its egg to the sj if nothing triggered it.[/quote] That's the thing. Something did trigger it. How and why, as i said, is never determined. All we know is, as you said, the Jockey was a victim of a facehugger and died from the chestburster.

I would say Facehugger and then Chestbuster. How the egg was disturbed, I don’t know. There is so many possibilities,for example, carelessness from the Jockey, sabotage or suicide mission. Hopefully we will find out from the next films.

In Alien, when Ash looks at the x-ray scan of the facehugger on Kane, there is a sphere (what I assume to be an embryo) moving across the screen into a blood vessel or broncheal tube. Ash notices this, cocks his head slightly, and says to Dallas "Lets not be too hasty". The next scene it goes into the vessel/Broncheal tube to the lungs like a human embryo would through fallopian tubes into the uterus. It's just a theory, based on what the human cycle does for embryo implantation. Ridley uses a lot of things from nature in his work, who knows. I circled the sphere, see how it travels to the tube? [IMG]http://i49.tinypic.com/289csw9.png[/IMG] Human embryo 20 hours after fertilisation: [IMG]http://i50.tinypic.com/331fwna.jpg[/IMG] Also, you made a mistake Snork. Craigs picture shows the hosts teeth not any facehugger teeth. [i]Er Craigamore, two proboscis' never seen that in the movies, nor any Facehugger teeth for that matter (except cuddles). -SNORKELBOTTOM[/i]

That you have circled isn't an egg. It's fluid.

Would you say the Facehugger came from the Juggernauts cargo and burnt through the hole in the floor by spitting acid to reach the pilot in his chair?

I don't think the facehugger made the whole into the egg silo/hold. I believe he was infected with one of the eggs from below. How, i have no idea. But that's just my own speculation based on comments from Ridley Scott. Again, when the whole Derelict and Space Jockey sequences were revised it was all left a mystery.

How much acid would it take to burn a hole through all that metal ? Remember that that part of the telescopic chair is the support base for the telescopic chair . So it would have to be strong enough to caRry the tel.chair. But it wouldn't be as thick as the rest of the floor would it ? So there must be a hydraulic ram of some kind pushing the chair up. Might the ram be visible in the lower deck where the eggs are- is there a direct line of sight between the moving ram and and the eggs ? An egg sensing the movement of the ram as the telchair emerged from the lower deck might have jumped onto the ram. Maybe more than one. As the ram stopped moving the hugger sensed the atmosphere becoming unbreathable as the ship left the atmosphere. A hugger also breathes doesn't it ? But sensing the heat signature of the engineer its instincts take over And it starts spiTting acid. It gets through the hole and quickly finds a way to penetrate the bio suit. But this theory has few problems. - if the hugger penetrated the suit and got to the sj's face, how did it get air to the sj to keep it alive as it was probably leaking out of the sj helmet ? How would the hugger be able to take air provided by the biosuit and the chair as the lack of atmosphere would cause low air presure and the air supply world leak out as the hugger would have compromised the the suits airtightneSs. Far far very far fetched I know. Otherwise hugging must occured with the sj roaming the ship while in flight But still even if that is the case that a sj could walk about the ship inflight without a biosuit tHen think about this: A grown engineer probably weighes about 350 pounds. It is probably 4 times stronger than a normal man. No way a hugger wil hug it if the sj doesn't want it to. I don't know if this can be solved.

-blink-

Ok, read all and I'm up to speed. Here's my take: I think it's clear that the SJ fell victim to a chestburster; other than that, we KNOW nothing except that there are SEVERAL eggs in the cargo hold. Those eggs APPEAR to be "dormant" until Kane litterally touches one. When he does there is an electrical-sounding charge and the egg he touches begins to stir (the rest is history). Further, I agree (somewhat) with an earlier writer (too lazy to look who; sorry): how does/would the FH get through the SJ's facemask? I.e., Kane's helmet (and Fifield's) get acidized -- but the SJ's appears as pristine as when he put it on; no acid burns; no holes. This INFERS (wink, Snorky) that the SJ fell victim to a FH BEFORE readying for flight (i.e., suiting up). So to answer the posed question: a chestburster caused the SJ's death. The When, "How" & Why can only be speculated upon at this point.

@Snorkel: [i]"Worms? Internal organs? Oesophagus?"[/i] The oesophagus is the tube that leads on from your throat. That's where the facehugger puts its proboscis. It can't lay an embryo there and have it remain there because it would simply grow in size and make it impossible to ingest food, and we know that didn't happen because Kane is able to swallow. Therefore, there has to be a mechanism for it to grow [i]outside[/i] of the oesophagus. The proboscis looks very soft and slippery and IMO would be unlikely to pierce the oesophagus itself, and doesn't appear to do so in the x-rays. The embryonic xeno must attach itself to one or more organs in order to obtain nutrition, otherwise it's not going to grow. It can derive much of its nourishment from blood alone, but something like the liver would provide far more useful material in a short time - efficiency. As to how the embryo starts its life, as I mention, something [i]has[/i] to get from the inside of the oesophagus to the outside. A burrowing worm could do that, and would mirror something that we saw in Holloway's eye. Doesn't have to be, of course; we've never seen it.

The bio suit that comes with the chair is like a living organism itself ? With its own supply of oxygen and nutrients coming from the chair ? Its own electric field ? Might A hugger have made that hole in the tel chair base before it emerged from the ground as it sensed the biosuit? (do you remember in prometheus that the biosuit was allready in thE chair before it emerged from the level below ?) When the sj got in and its arms being held in place by the suit closing in on it the hugger hugged having hid in the un assembled helmet part and as it closed on the sj. No damage to mask or suit. The enginEer unable to move its arms had to wait until the suit completely wraps around him before he could press the button to un suit. Enough time to plant the embryo? The proboscis in all alien films have never once been bitten off by any of the hosts it impregnated as a far as I know. So it must be extremely tough and extremely strong. That would be my first instinct if I got face hugged . That also explains the whole lack of oxygen thing as the ship had not yet taken off. Problems with theory: Why Would the sj take off if it knew impending death ? If it was hugged before even getting in the chair a few minutes before flight then I can ask the same question: why would it take off knowing impending death ? Did it not have radio contact with its homeworld ? Asking for another engineer to come to replace him as he would be dead by the time they arrived. More than likely he would have sacrificed/killed himself to prevent chest bursting in order that the replacing engineer might not have to run into a xeno. Also no medical equipmenT to take the embryo out ? No it was hugged during flight. While the engineer was in cryosleep in the tel chair. And it only had enough time to land the ship crashing it in the proceSs posting a warning. Back to my 1st theory. That does of course leave the theory of a third party on the ship. How was it breathing then? A xeno hiding in the oxygen rich mist until after take off and then spitting acid on the tel chair base from below ? Problem: engineers would have made sure all xenos died before collecting eggs. Back to 1st theory.

[quote][b]No it was hugged during flight. While the engineer was in cryosleep in the tel chair. And it only had enough time to land the ship crashing it in the proceSs posting a warning. Back to my 1st theory.[/b][/quote] Back then the Jockey wasn't a suit nor was it known as an 'Engineer'. Ridley Scott, Ivor Powell and other members of the crew had said that the Derelict was a battle cruiser, that was their take on it, and the eggs were it's cargo. It's posible the Jockey was impregnated during flight, that much i agree with. What we do know for sure is once it landed on LV-426 it broadcast a warning becon. For all we know the warning beacon was aimed at other 'Jockeys' not not for other species. Prometheus really has...well, I'm not going there to be honest.

xeno_alpha_07 - Did Ridley actually say that "the eggs were it's cargo"? As opposed to Vials of black goo? A "high risk" cargo for the Engineer to have on his ship! Sorry just checking as I have not read that interview ...

... if not, one could speculate that the chestburster orginating from the SJ in Alien was a Queen that then laid all the eggs in the Chamber below (creatin the opening) and the cargo of vases / vials was in a dirrent part of the ship. Question is, how did a Xeno egg get on board in the first place ....

@oduodu: [i]"The bio suit that comes with the chair is like a living organism itself? With its own supply of oxygen and nutrients coming from the chair?"[/i] That would fit. Most of the Engineer's technology looks kind of "grown". [i]"When the sj got in and its arms being held in place by the suit closing in on it the hugger hugged having hid in the un assembled helmet part and as it closed on the sj"[/i] That makes sense, too. Problem: [i]"Why Would the sj take off if it knew impending death?"[/i] I can't see that's a problem with your thesis. He was impregnated before the take off could be completed. [i]"Did it not have radio contact with its homeworld?"[/i] We don't know that they have a home world. Personally, I don't imagine that they do. Too advanced for boring stuff like a plain old home world. There are myriad possibilities as to the full nature of Engineer society (if such a thing exists). Looking forward to that in sequels. [i]"Also no medical equipmenT to take the embryo out?"[/i] He would have been paralyzed in seconds. "No it was hugged during flight". I disagree. I think your earlier idea fits better: He was impregnated during the take-off. Maybe the warning beacon triggered automatically.

Eggs or something: [quote][b]Did Ridley actually say that "the eggs were it's cargo"? As opposed to Vials of black goo? A "high risk" cargo for the Engineer to have on his ship! Sorry just checking as I have not read that interview ...[/b][/quote] Here's a quote taken from Ridley Scott during the Alien 20th anniversary DVD commentary: [i]"...in my head was, this was an aircraft Carrier, a battle-wagon of a civilization, and the eggs were a cargo which were essentially weapons. So right, like a large form of bacteriological stroke biomechanoid warfare."[/i]

@ Eggs or Something... Your theory is a common, but misguided one, because you are forgetting one key aspect - the eggs where "covered" with a layer of blue laser-mist. Had the Alien bursting from the Engineer been a Queen, why was there said blue laser-mist in the cargo hold of the ship. Add to that the FACT that Ridley Scott said quite clearly just before the theatrical release of Prometheus that the derelict Engineer craft on LV-426 was carrying a cargo of EGGS, and the pilot fell to his cargo and was forced to land on LV-426. Which brings me to the other theory being thrown around... That the Engineer has Facehugged before or during takeoff, without a conscious pilot the Juggernaut would not have been able to take off, this is a simple logical deduction (winks at Red Wolf), because the Juggernaut would have force-landed on LV-426 when the pilot was unconscious, why else would it have force-landed. From here, IMO, its a simple case of eliminating non-viable possibilities, in line with the facts we know... [b]- Force-landed Juggernaut on LV-426. - Beacon/Signal (warning) being sent every 12 seconds. - Cargo bay full of Xenomorph eggs, covered with a mist. - Acid burnt hole on the platform near the cannon-chair. - Dead Engineer with a hole in his chest - Chestburster.[/b] Working backwards, effect-cause... Engineer died from Chestburster birth. Therefore any actions on his part happened before this instance. Forced-Landing most likely happened while pilot was unconscious. Two ascertainable points this would have occurred is while being Facehugged, or upon death. Juggernaut must have been in standard (non FTL) flight over/near LV-426 before it was forced to land there. FTL speed impact would have likely have destroyed vessel, but why not FTL (mental note). Time from spotting (if at all) of Facehugger would have been short-nonexistent, therefore we can deduce that the beacon/signal was transmitted not before, but after the pilot was Facehugged. Therefore, logic dictates the following chain of events... [b]Juggernaut in flight over/near LV-426 - Pilot Facehugged and becomes unconscious - Juggernaut forced to land on LV-426 - Pilot awakens and transmits signal/beacon - Chestburster born.[/b] Now the only remaining mystery is how the pilot was Facehugged. Only remaining pieces of evidence are... [b]- Cargo bay full of Xenomorph eggs, covered with a mist. - Acid burnt hole on the platform near the cannon-chair.[/b] Most direct place between two points is a straight line. In this case point A is the cargo bay full of Xenomorph eggs, point B is the pilot. Separating A and B is an acid burnt hole in platform next to the pilots chair. [b]Known FACT - Facehuggers spit acid (as shown with Kanes helmet upon being Facehugged). Known FACT - Facehuggers hatch from eggs not when touched, but when viable hosts are detected in the vicinity (Newt, Ripley, Graeme Miller)[/b]. Pilot being directly above the cargo bay was within reasonable vicinity. Issue - Possibility that during spaceflight the Juggernaut has no atmosphere. Solution - Xenomorphs known to exist within a vacuum with no atmosphere (Alien and Aliens). Therefore, logic dictates the following chain of events... [b]Egg in Cargo bay hatches sensing pilot above - burns hole in platform (most direct route) - Pilot sees this, drops out of FTL - Facehugger assaults pilot triggering aforementioned chain of events.[/b] Only known issue - pilots helmet would have prevented assault, but assault did occur therefore pilots helmet must have been removed regardless of why. Reasons known only by victim for this course of action, one would presume attempt to study, escape, seek means to counteract threat Finally, logic dictates the following chain of events... [b]Egg in Cargo bay hatches sensing pilot above - burns hole in platform (most direct route) - Pilot sees this, drops out of FTL - Pilot removes helmet - Juggernaut in flight over/near LV-426 - Pilot Facehugged and becomes unconscious - Juggernaut forced to land on LV-426 - Pilot awakens and transmits signal/beacon - Chestburster born.[/b]

Okay! Some definite progress here !! Oh I agree !!

Snorky, are we really to believe that the SJ voluntarily removes the ONLY item that might save is ARSE when he spots the facehugger -- that being his helmet ( we can deduce that he couldn't have removed it if he never knew the FHer was there)? While it acidicly reached Kane through his helmet's face shield -- and would have most likely done the same to the SJ, it's simply inconceivable that the SJ sees the FHer and then removes his helmet so it can hug his face (I suppose it's POSSIBLE that that helmet was his favorite one and that he promised to give it to a friend or relative when he retired, and so he wanted to keep it in good condition -- but there's no real evidence that's the case) -- only to replace it after the FHer has orally raped him. Further, while the FHers have exited their egg when a potential host is "nearby" (I think the eggs in the Jugg's cargo hold needed to be "touched" for a variety of reasons), I'm loath to call a SJ at least -- what, 50 feet and a ceiling/floor above them -- as "nearby." I watched the SJ scene in Alien last night on Youtube (in HD) and I gotta say that I did not see any "acid-burnt hole" to the SJ's right -- but even more, it appeared to me that the SJ himself had an elongated nose bone rather than was wearing a helmet like shown in Prometheus. In fact, his head appeared to be a skull. IF SO, then there was no helmet to remove/replace -- and John Merrick has some lofty competition! So... I'm not sure you're going to achieve a consensus about all the parameters surrounding the SJ's story. HOWEVER, your posed question was how the SJ died; in that regard I believe we'd all agree he died via chestbursting.

@Red Wolf We don't know what activated the egg that impregnated the Space Jockey. What we know for sure is 'something did'. Regarding the Jockey's 'Helmet'. Well, this is where Prometheus messes things up. It wasn't a suit or a helmet in the first film. So this causes a new type of confliction between both films and the Jockey's race itself. [img]http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/3915/spacejockeycloseup.jpg[/img] I know what Snorkelbottom means about the Acid hole leading to the egg chamber. However, it's meant to be the opening to a shaft into the cargo hold. It just looks like it was burnt through so to speak.

@ Red Wolf... Regardless of the why it is clear that the Engineer removed his helmet or possibly even left the chair altogether, otherwise he would have not been facehugged, and because there was no damage to his helmet we can eliminate the possibility of the Facehugger burning through it. Thus no helmet/suit is the only possibility. As mentioned in my previous post the most direct path between the eggs and Engineer pilot is through the platform, and because of the acid burnt hole in the platform, deduction and logic dictates that the hole was the point of ingress. The acid burnt hole is clear for all to see, it is the same hole of which Kane descends down into the egg chamber, and upon Kane first discovering the hole we, the audience are shown that it has the same texture as the hole caused by the Facehuggers blood when Dallas and Ash attempt to cut off one of its fingers. If you cannot see that in the HD YouTube version, may I suggest purchasing the film on DVD/Blu-Ray. Furthermore, this hole IS in front and to the right of the dead Engineers position. The Engineer in Alien is not the Skeletal remains of large, long dead creature - Ridley Scott clarified that before the theatrical release of Prometheus, clearly stating that it was an individual within a suit, just as in Prometheus. I know some will mention the size difference, but recall that the size difference depends upon which part of the scene you are referring to - the distant shots used Ridleys Scotts own children in smaller suits to give the impression of a 12-15 feet tall dead Engineer, but the close up shots of Dallas looking at the Chestburster wound shows the scale of the Engineer to be closer to 7-10 feet tall, which matches what we see in Prometheus.

@ Snorkelbottom - Also it is worth pointing out that Dallas mentions that the Alien life form is fossilised and stuck to the chair (I don't remember the exact words) which would indicate that it would be hard to distinguish what is what (engineer bone or space material). In your opinion, would I be right in assuming that this event happened much earlier than the Engineers attempt of leaving for earth in Prometheus dated 2000 years old?

@ eggs or something - rather than get into that whole debate, may I suggest doing a search for the word "fossil". Because a fossil, it wasn't.

Yes I know what a fossil is..... I'm using the word as verb which is in the script - quote: - alien life form, its been dead a long time, fossilised, looks like its grown out of the chair - to make a point about its age.

Eggs or something... you misread my meaning, i meant search the other threads on this site. Because if you truly know what a fossil is then you'll know that the dead Engineers suit in Alien was NOT fossilized.

Absolutely.... I'm sure Tom Skerritt does as well.

Obviously not... I suggest you read [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/1105]This Thread Here[/url].

First off, I agree with the answer to Q2....I was just playing devil's advocate for the sake of it... I almost totally agree with Snorky's chain of events for Q3. My one issue is the how and when of the SpaceJockey being impregnated. There seems to be no visible evidence, as Snorky said, of the Jockey being facehugged with his helmet on. I agree with the other member that it seems unlikely he would remove his helmet to take a look around. Ultimately, here's what I think happened in regards to this specific point, (otherwise, I am in total agreement with Snorkelbottom),.....I believe the facehug occurred at some point before he entered the chair to begin with. Now, there's no telling exactly how or when, but I suggest this as there is no evidence of a dead facehugger anywhere near that platform in Alien. It seems most logical to me that while the Jockey is in flight and and the destination is set, he is in stasis, just as we are over such distances. We even see evidence of long term stasis in Prometheus, so.....I think it happened at some point earlier in the journey or after the Ship was forced to land. In either case, I believe the facehug and impregnation took place away from the central pilot's chamber. Otherwise, I totally agree with Snork. It's just that it seems odd he would remove his only protection if he KNEW that something in the cargo was disturbed. Eureka moment........Snork's chain of events totally jives if the following is true....1) The ship lands for mechanical reasons or comes out of FTL for mechanical reasons and the egg is disturbed in the process. 2) He is unaware of the disturbed egg and is facehugged at some point during his investigation of the problem. Ultimately, I think there had to be some issue with the ship itself, otherwise, he would have put himself in stasis and at least continued with the hope of medical help. I am about post Snork's chain of events with a few alterations that make a bit more sense to me personally: Ship comes out of FTL due to mechanical issues and is forced to land on LV-426 - Egg in Cargo bay is disturbed in the proces and hatches, sensing pilot above - burns hole in platform (most direct route) - Pilot removes helmet to investigate mechanical issue with ship - Pilot Facehugged and becomes unconscious - Pilot awakens, realizes predicament, inability to leave and transmits signal/beacon to warn others - Chestburster born. I think that works better.....

OK, the more I read the more I believe we truly need to know exactly WHAT the beacon warning says. For AT MOST we have a SJ that knows he's been facehugged -- which means AT MOST we have one xeno -- which AT MOST = 1 more egg (a la Dallas/Bret); then again, there are thousands of eggs in the hold, so why worry about one more??? I agree that the "hole" Kane drops down thru is simply a "doorway" to/from the hold area; no acid-based erosion of the ship (besides, in every film there IS acid-based erosion of a ship, it occurs "downward"). So does the beacon warning warn of an alien, a queen or the eggs? If The Company learned of the "specimen" thru the warning, it could warn of either. Since it seems we've established how the SJ died (i.e., via chestburster), I suggest Snorky move along to Q4.

@ Craigamore... I agree with idea of the Juggernaut leaving FTL being a catalyst of events, so hows this.... [b]Juggernaut in flight over/near LV-426 - Pilot drops out of FTL, leaves chair - Egg in Cargo bay hatches sensing pilot above - burns hole in platform (most direct route) - Pilot enters chair - Pilot Facehugged before helmet attached and becomes unconscious - Juggernaut forced to land on LV-426 - Pilot awakens and transmits signal/beacon - Chestburster born.[/b] @ Red Wolf... Its obvious the Engineer died from a Chestburster, but a universally agreed upon ascertainable chain of events leading up to his death and establishing cause - effect. Therefore it would make sense to get the best answer to the question as opposed to the easiest answer. Also, if a facehugger crawled up the walls of the egg chamber and spat acid at the ceiling above it, the melting acid would melt downward due to gravity. Despite the fact that the acid may have been sprayed from below the acid erosion would still have occurred downward. Here is an image of the acid burnt hole in the derelict... [IMG]http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac89/snorkelbottom/acidholederelictALIEN.jpg[/IMG] ...and for comparison here is the acid burnt hole shown later in the Nostromo... [IMG]http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac89/snorkelbottom/acidholenostromoALIEN.jpg[/IMG]

I like it Snorkelbottom....I tend to think there probably was a mechanical issue for it all to fit, but, ultimately, it really doesn't matter as long as we establish that he was forced out of FTL (for some reason) and forced to land on LV-426 during, just prior to or after his fachugging event. The exact when of that facehugging point is not knowable for certain in any educated guess as to the series of events, but, based on the logic we've agreed upon thus far, it isn't necessary to established a specific placement in that series other than to say that the drop from FTL or the landing on the planet triggered/disturbed the egg and the facehug event occured as early as somewhere between the drop out of FTL and shortly after the landing. The exact cause of the landing on LV-426, be it ship malfunctions or the facehugging, is not certain, but we can establish a certainty of the facehug event taking place between the drop and the warning issue, which took place after the landing....and I think we should frame it that way to be as honest as well as accurate in what we do know as we can.

I gotta say.....I LOVE THIS BACKWARDS ENGINEERED ARCHEOLOGICAL DISCOVERY OF EVENTS.......IT'S BLOODY BRILLIANT MATES..............

Nice pics, Snorky. I now know why I said I've never noticed the burn hole before: because it appears to be an accessway rather than an acidicly-induced hole. That is, not only does its size make one wonder just how much acid a FHer can produce (I mean, JEEZE! it must've taken gallons!), it also makes one wonder how the SJ would not have noticed it being formed. Further, how/why would the FHer cut a SQUARE hole that conforms to the metal "borders" directly above it? It seems clear that whatever/whoever created that hole created it from ABOVE (i.e., the bridge of the Jugg). Lastly, if a FHer spat enough acid to create that hole, at least some of that acid would have dripped back down, into the egg cargo hold. In fact, I'd submit that a prudent man could estimate quite a bit of acid doing so -- enough to eat through the hold/hull, which would cause all SORTS of problems/issues. Again, it is mho that the totality of the circumstances undermines the "FHer got loose" theory -- at least how you have portrayed it. The only part of ANY Alien franchise film where a FHer is seen "wandering about" is in AvP when a hugger actually gets a Predator. Other than that one scene -- ONE SCENE covering SIX films -- eggs only open up if/when a host is in close proximity. Again, ANYTHING'S POSSIBLE; I just don't believe there's sufficient evidence -- especially now seeing the size & dimensions of that huge hole -- to give your thesis my vote. And frankly, like so many aspects of this franchise, there simply may not be enough FACTS to support a conclusive answer to all questions.

Red Wolf.......Ridley Scott has said in interviews and commentaries that something, we don't know what exactly, disturbed one of the eggs........He has never said that anything related to proximity occured in reference to the events on the derelict. We're going by what Ridley said on the vague details and doing our best to establish as much of the truth as we can....that's all..... This being said, Ridley established this idea and we're running with it..... Here's qoute from Ridley's commentary on Alien's 20th Anniversary DVD: "But clearly from here, this is where the transmission would emanate from, probably in an automatic transmission, so this creature had obviously experienced maybe one of the eggs had been disturbed and a creature had got out, had attacked the rest of the crew, don't ask me where they got to, but he's pretty gruesome..." qoute taken from [url=http://alienexplorations.blogspot.com/2011/10/20th-anniversary-dvd-commentary-edited.html]20th anniversary DVD Ridley Scott commentary[/url].

@ Red Wolf... I have to ask, why does it seem that you are playing devils advocate constantly, I am just asking because in all of your recent posts all I see is the constant questioning of posts, usually mine, and never any actual proposed theories or speculation. To your queries... The image of the acid burn was caused by a single small squirt of acid, which was able to eat through two thick layers of hull. So if the Facehugger spat acid at the hole shown in a wide arc it is viable that the hole shown from the derelict was made. You can clearly see in both images that they have the same texture, thus were both caused by the same cause. As to the square-ish (the hole matches the segregated ring pattern of the platform, therefore is not actually square) nature of the hole, the only logical conclusion that can be drawn is that the surrounded metal must be of a different composition, and somewhat (there is scarring) immune to the Facehuggers acid. Also, it was clearly shown, twice, in Alien 3 that Facehuggers would hunt down viable hosts and use their acidic spit to gain access to said hosts.

Thanks for posting pics snorkelbottom. Craigamore I love this as well !!! I'm just so impatient to find out what the other questions are !!!! AND Where the hell are all the other 11000 fans ?????? As In where the hell is the army guys ? Theyre dead. Are you guys dead that aren't participating - dead ? Lol Well this is you're chance to argue. If you don't use it and come back later and say : I don't agree with that. It will be to late then.

OK, perhaps I'm being too stringent, but I see the following terms/phrases in your response and the quote you provided: "we don't know what exactly" "probably" "maybe" "don't ask me where they got to" I'm sorry, but we will spin our minds SILLY if we continue to utilize the above as having enough rigidity to actually BUILD something upon. Toss in reports on this very site that RS, Lindy & Co. have said different/conflicting things and we're left with mush. That is why I am attempting to get to the meat-n-batatas of things using ONLY what's ON FILM. So, what can we garner that IS on film to answer the posed question by Snorky? I submit, unfortunately, not much. Don't get me wrong; Snorky's theory(ies) may indeed be true. From autopilots to automated beacon warnings to FHers spitting perfectly square holes from underneath that conform with the raised metal borders above it -- they may all be true. But if we don't rely more heavily on what we know to be fact (i.e., what's on film), then we're reversing the meal. For it's not known as Batatas-n-Meat. Let's use what's on film as the Meat-n-Batatas and things RS/Lindy/FOX execs have said as the salt-n-pepper.

Is it possible that one of the eggs was placed elsewhere on the derelict (not seen by Nostromo crew) and not in the cargo hold (like a sabotage from one of the Engineers). When Kane descends in the chamber I don't recall seeing an "open egg" (although arguably there were alot of them so may not have been obvious to Kane) unless it had subsequently closed empty without a FH inside ... possibly the one Kane knocks accidently when he slips from the platform in the egg chamber... that egg does not seem to be "awakened / triggered" ...Just an idea... However, this does not explain the opening in the derelict hull.

@ Red Wolf... There are the following... - Known facts - eg. Engineer in Alien died from a chestburster. - Ascertainable Facts - eg. Engineer was facehugged. - Speculation - eg. Engineer gave birth to a Queen. - Idiocy - eg. Engineer was killed by a Predator. Known facts appear in the movies and Ascertainable facts are deduced using logic and known facts. These two can be used in conjunction to logically deduce the facts. Speculation and Idiocy only confuse the matter. If the Engineer died from a chestburster, we apply that he therefore got facehugged, once we ascertain the most viably possible point at which that event occurred, we can then look to other known and ascertainable facts - the only known source of the facehuggers is egg chamber, seperating the two is an acid burnt hole in the platform. [center][i]"once all possibilities have been eliminated, the only remaining possibility, no matter how improbable leads to the truth."[/i][/center] Sherlock Holmes.