Xeno Orgins... Not simply a Chicken or Egg Debate.

There's also the (often overlooked or not-considered) possibility that the Deacon gets infected by the Hammerpede. - Deacon has pink gums, suggesting, if anything, that it has human/engineer-like blood, while the Hammerpede has blood that is downright weaponized. - Deacon lacks many of the segmented or worm-like characteristics in it's appearance and lifecycle, while the Hammerpede is basically a traditional facehugger lacking almost everything that was present in the Deacon's parent organism (Trilobyte, or 'Cuddles'). - Traditional Xenomorph lifecycle (read: as we know it) parallels many of the characteristics of worm/insect behavior, and that's a very short amount of time to evolve those traits without having them introduced. - Deacon is left alone on a planet where the only other known living organism is a mouth-raping fanged worm with acidblood. Seriously. Nothing but those two left alone with nothing better to do than either scream profanity at each other or make sweet love to each others word-holes. EDIT: I could actually go on all day supporting this hypothesis. - Xenos have six fingers / Deacon has five. Suggests a trait that wasn't reinforced. - Deacon lacks a tail / Xenos tails are segmented and weaponized, as are the facehuggers. These traits aren't seen in the entire Deacon lifecycle. - Humanlike bones in Facehuggers phenotype. Insinuates human and/or Engi DNA was introduced at some recent point in it's lineage, and seeing this paired with what is essentially the lower 90% of a Hammerpede's body, along with it's overall behavior, strength, and physiology is, to me, pretty damned convincing evidence of some meaningful manner of intermingling between the Deac and Pede gene pool. - The Xenomorph's appearance carries artifacts and possible beneficial traits of the Engineers genetically altered 'body suit' armor. The only organism that appeared 'bio-mechanical' to me in Prometheus was the Engineers, and more specifically, their 'suits'...which in lieu of any real explanation aside from visual clues, was essentially their own modified flesh (explaining the lack of a 'seam' between their hands, feet, and their 'suits'). If the Xenos were, in fact, the product of a lineage that included Engineer DNA, it would be no surprise then that they, too, would be the only OTHER organism that looked decidedly 'bio-mechanical'. Wouldn't you agree?

"Xenos have six fingers / Deacon has five. Suggests a trait that wasn't reinforced." That means they are inbred then ;) On a serious note yes some interesting ideas, but i do think that the Xeno has been around prior to the Deacon and thus the Deacon is not the Mother to the Xenos but rather a end product/evolution of the Xeno Organism. As far as the Engineers suits yes they appear Bio Mechanical and as i have said on other threads, i liken them to say how we would wear a fur coat it is just worn as a item of clothing. But what if when we put on the Fur Coat it joins to our skin and body and acts just like the Fur did with the original creature it was cut from. Thats how the Engineers suits work. Well as far as i have gathered. But yes the actual Space Jockey Suit does have some things in common with the Xeno and who knows maybe the reverse engineered the Space Jockey suits from Xenos?

"On a serious note yes some interesting ideas, but i do think that the Xeno has been around prior to the Deacon and thus the Deacon is not the Mother to the Xenos but rather a end product/evolution of the Xeno Organism." Why? The 'tomb' depiction of the 'Xeno' at best resembled a Deacon, and at worst was too ambiguous to resemble either one to point of any measure of certainty. Obviously the 'goo' has a purpose, and that purpose tends toward results that resemble a weaponized version of it's host, and if the host is humanoid, it will likely resemble (after a generation or two) a Xeno/Deacon. I'm not arguing that something like a Xenomorph never existed, but that the characteristics in what we KNOW of Xenomorphs insinuate that, at some point, a Hammerpede was involved. You only need to look at the physiology of the facehugger and the acid blood of the Xeno to see this in context, as neither of those traits were anywhere to be found (or made known) outside of the Hammerpede. Cut and dry. Hammerpede (pay close attention to the lower 90%) [img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vTakXKoQ4tc/T9Y3B5nMeDI/AAAAAAAAA4g/VVwxKS1y3IY/s640/ALIEN+PROMETHEUS+HAMMERPEDE+WORM.jpg[/img] Facehugger (same as above) [img]http://terrordaves.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/alien_facehugger_001_1197062102.jpg[/img] "Thats how the Engineers suits work. Well as far as i have gathered." Gathered from where? I'd love to see this, because it's counter-intuitive to their technology in almost every sense. When the Deacon ripped Grumpy open, you'd have expected his 'suit' to behave like any other suit and fall away from the wound. It didn't, and I firmly believe it was a deliberate artistic move. EDIT: The only piece of the 'suit' I've gathered that attaches seperately is the helmet. Also interesting to note is that the suits seen by themselves in the halls are -not- the same suit being worn by the 'naked' engineer; they're analogous (or possibly identical) to those that attach themselves to the engineers when they 'strap in' to the pilot's chair. [img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9o4YRxyjl5I/T9YbM9yBnFI/AAAAAAAADBI/bcesDwkzot0/s1600/Prometheus+space+jockey+engineer+pilot2+pics.jpg[/img] Seems a bit odd that they'd wear a suit over a suit, if the suit wasn't already equitable with their own bare skin. I mean, they wear these things in hypersleep...

Yes the Hammerpede does have some traits of the Face Hugger, maybe because of the Xeno DNA? But so does Shaws Squid and ok we never saw Acid in Shaws Squid but then again we never saw it get wounded. But still yes we can not rule out that the Hammerpede and Deacon somehow get involved to produce the Xeno. And yes the Mural does look like the Deacon more than a Xeno, and this goes with Ridley saying its where Mommy meets Daddy and the Progenitor. The Mural also has Traditional Xeno Face Huggers below it so maybe the Xeno Organism in the Mural gives rise to the Face Hugger. But then Ridley contradicts such events by suggesting the Derelict had been on LV 223 for a long time and even went as far to say it landed on LV 426 a few hundred years prior to the Events of the outbreak on LV 223 some 2000 years ago, and that the Derelict had a Cargo of Eggs. Now even if i am mistaken and the few hundred was within a few hundred years of and not prior then that would imply that the Derelict landed with a Cargo of Eggs on LV 426 between 2300 to 1700 years prior to the events of Prometheus circa 2093/94 End of the day its so ambiguous that really only Ridley knows he idea of where and when the Xeno came from.

As far as the Engineer goes the Sacrificial one had no Suit he was near naked and the Elders had robes on. At some point they developed a item of clothing that bonded with their bodies such is the advancement of their technology. I would assume this is for a reason. And that Engineers who are on the Homeworld would not wear such suits. The Last Engineer suit is just a advanced form of this in my opinion. [img]http://images.usoutdoor.com/usoutdoorstore/products/full/q_5_4hd_hs_ignite_bkn_07.jpg[/img] The Space Jockey suit is like this... [img]http://oceansdivers.com/wp-content/gallery/scuba-self-contained-underwater-breathing-apparatus/scuba_diving_equipment.jpg[/img] But also could be just their version of [img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-f-SmJKK78z4/TaBiMhQr68I/AAAAAAAAAfI/MKGZJ2glmO4/s1600/suit1.jpg[/img] More likely a suit that combined both functions. The Pilot Suit in chair is similar but like say our version of this. [img]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/xplanes/images/outf-figures.jpg[/img] Thats what i think anyway.

As far as the bas relief in the ampule room is concerned, I agree that the xeno-esque figure (the one that is depicted quasi-crucified) resembles both the traditional xeno and the "deacon". Its difficult to decide which entity its supposed to depict. However, we mustn't forget the other pieces of artwork in the ampule room (the 2 frescos on the ceiling). One of the frescos CLEARLY depicts a hand/arm that is analogous to the hand/arm of the traditional xeno (shown in Alien). We dont get a great look at it in prometheus (because it is deteriorating), but the concept art book has a nice full page print of said fresco. First of all, a traditional xeno egg (analogous to the ones shown in Alien) is depicted. Second of all, a xeno-esque hand is depicted to the side/behind the egg in question. Now...this hand/arm is identical to the hand/arm of the traditional alien/xeno seen in the film Alien. The "deacon" and the "alien" have very obvious differences in the hand/ arm region. No question, the hand/arm depicted in one of the frescos in the ampule room is that of the creature seen in the film Alien. What does this mean? as far as im concerned, this is just more evidence of the fact that the traditional xeno does not evolve from/post-date the deacon. In addition, the eggs seen in Alien existed prior to the adventures of shaw/david and co. (the bulk of the events that transpire in prometheus). Have any of you guys examined the piece of artwork im referencing (the fresco of the egg and xeno hand/arm)? Do you see what im getting at?

Yes i agree and it adds with Ridleys Comments..... About the Derelict and timeline and it had Eggs and thus the Deacon is a Evolution of the Xeno and a predecessor. Also Ridleys comments about Mommy meets Daddy may be misleading to assume its about the Xeno, when it means the Deacon. And Lindelofs the movie is about the Progenitor again left ambiguous but does not have to be about the Xeno. The movie is about the Progenitor of the Deacon and not the Xeno.... but what else is it about as far as Progenitor goes..... ENGINEER = HUMAN PROGENITOR maybe thats what he meant but in a context to keep us thinking it could be about the Events of Shaws Baby to Deacon in relation to Xeno.

Big Dave Do you not think there is a need to develop a theory on the origins of the Xenomorph and their role in engineer society based solely on what happens in prometheus and alien (specifically the directors cut of alien) forgetting the rest of the alien films ?

I would like to think so. And i do hope that Prometheus 3 makes the connection, we dont have to see no Xenos all over the place. Only some kind of flash back, or Mural or even Dialog where they simply explain more about the Xeno and there connection with it. Seems to be Bio Weapon, but where from, how come and why.

Bigdave Do you think that all the homages paid to the rest of the alien series means that Ridley is using what is known about the xeno's(from a2 to a4) as background info for xeno's ? For example does it mean it mean we will find a queen/hive somewhere in P1 - p3 or will we only find warrior xeno's finally reaching maturity and injecting egg morphing goo . I know you don't have the answers on this(yet !!!!). My point is will it not be easier to theorise about the xenomorph origins once this question is answered ? And indeed the engineer civilisation ? Let me just say this : it doesn't matter to me one way or another if Ridley uses all the alien movies as background info for xenomorph behaviour / ability / lifecycle or only alien . All that matters to me is that we etablish what is the case regarding this. Why is this so important to me ? Well in the ambiguity discussion craigamore noted that there was speculation that the facehugger inserts a viral agent into its host wkich uses the host to create an embryo.. I dont recall any mention of an embryo in alien itself. Am I wrong bigdave ? If this is the case bigdave could it be possible that the virus in the ampules is in fact what the embryo forces down its host throat ? Directly turning your innards into a chestburster ? This is just an example of what I am getting at . To me personally it doesn't matter whether its a virus or embryo from a preferential view only that we know which way ridley went as to establish possible theories on the xenomorph origins or anything else that we might theorise on. Congrats on your new title. Well deserved !!!! And so to all other people promoted. Thanks to ALL the staff for this blog . It is really appreciated !!!!(are you all programmers ?? YES I AM JEALOUS !!! LOOL !!!) I expect to get noisy around here as the DVD is released . I am guessing a lot of my theories will be broken down to its DNA core !!!! Oh yes It doesn't matter to me if we see xeno's in P1 - p3 .( ok ok I would like to see a xenomorph in its final adult lifecycle where I am guessing the skin is no longer translucent. ) I guess the additional 40 minutes will answer a lot of questions.