Assumptions V. Facts

I really believe there are no script errors or plot holes-- all the clues and possible explanations are there. Anything that u can't choose your own answer for based on the ambiguous evidence and seeds planted are only pot holes waiting to be filled. Like why there is already some life on Earth before the Engineers show up. Indeed, the stasis viewer is very interesting and the fact that people can be communicated with in cryo-sleep could be a big part of Paradise. Because they may have originally wanted to emphasize that aspect of the movie a little more with Weyland's yacht dream that was scrapped. Which would have had David inside the dream world carrying on a conversation with young Weyland (played by Pearce, ideal version of the self) aboard his dream-Yacht. Another scene that was scrapped for financial reasons around the Spain/water based shoot and never filmed/completed. So maybe, in this case, they did want us to see just how much David can interact with people's dreams/subconscious but money got in the way. Carrying on full conversations, or even sitting down to eat in the dream with the dream version of who he's talking to. The fact that Weyland chooses to look young in his own subconscious world is revealing, and would add to how much he didn't want to age/die. Possibly indicating that subconsciously it's more important to him to stay young than to not die. I won't spell out what I think the connections to blade runner are, but basically Weyland may not be so selfish after all & there's a reason Weyland wants to make it so humanity won't expire. Do androids dream? Or since they don't sleep-- can they have the ability to develop subconscious desires and hidden intents like humans? What about the semi-emotional David 8?

I'm going to hit what I would consider the important points you mention. "How do we know the opening scene was earth?" This is an assumption. The movie doesn't make it clear on purpose. However, Ridley has said the planet may or may not be earth, but it's irrelevant. The scene was only meant to show what the engineers were doing; seeding life (although it's on a planet with a lichen-like surface already). "How do we know the Engineers are earth's creators?" BINGO. You just identified one of the biggest script errors in the movie. This is one of the pieces of the movie that doesn't work. The movie *never, ever* makes it clear why Shaw and Holloway believe they were creators. Supposedly, according to some of the interviews from Ridley, Spaights and Lindelof, Shaw and Holloway's thesis pulled together some very interesting evidence that leads them to this "creators" idea. ...but it's *never* revealed to the audience, nor the crew!! Shaw simply "chooses to believe it" when she's confronted with the question as to why they are our creators. And (this must be said) there's no reason why to keep this information from the story! There's no mystery that's gained. It's simply a point in the plot that just doesn't add up. As a result, we assume Shaw and Holloway are *only* basing conclusions from the drawings because that's all that is presented...to *anyone*. "How do we know the Engineers put the maps on the stone markings in the ancient cultures?" Assumption. Again, the movie doesn't show us that. It could be that the drawings were only influenced by the engineers' presence and drawn by ancient humans. However, Ridley does mention that they were probably drawn from the engineers in the DC, but the movie itself doesn't reveal anything. "How do we know the infected sperm from Holloway did not get in Shaw's blood stream and was restricted only to her uterus?" Fact(?) I suppose the best proof is that she doesn't morph or die by the end of the movie. (?)

Thanks Moon... "This is an assumption. The movie doesn't make it clear on purpose. However, Ridley has said the planet may or may not be earth, but it's irrelevant. The scene was only meant to show what the engineers were doing; seeding life (although it's on a planet with a lichen-like surface already)." i was looking for something to verify that assumption. Thought it was important for the overall role of the engineers. We see water, grass, etc, so life was already on the planet so were they trying to create something specific? "BINGO. You just identified one of the biggest script errors in the movie. This is one of the pieces of the movie that doesn't work. The movie *never, ever* makes it clear why Shaw and Holloway believe they were creators. Supposedly, according to some of the interviews from Ridley, Spaights and Lindelof, Shaw and Holloway's thesis pulled together some very interesting evidence that leads them to this "creators" idea." It didn't make sense Shaw assumed the star maps were invitations. It would be like time traveling to the 4th century and giving someone an iPad with a dead battery. Also, the map of the planets was not very detailed and I find it really hard to believe you couldn't find another set of planets in the same formation with a sun. "Assumption. Again, the movie doesn't show us that. It could be that the drawings were only influenced by the engineers' presence and drawn by ancient humans. However, Ridley does mention that they were probably drawn from the engineers in the DC, but the movie itself doesn't reveal anything." The civilizations would have no way of knowing the planet layout so the alien visitors must have told them. But we don't know if those visitors were the Engineers. "Fact(?) I suppose the best proof is that she doesn't morph or die by the end of the movie. (?)" The route and vehicle of the pathogen could explain why we see no change in her. Or, we already saw the change and dismissed it as bad writing. What if the reason she was able to fiercely battle the engineer was due to the morphing beginning by increasing her muscle strength with not outward changes? Another reason is the time frame because Holloway was fed a microchip but it took how many hours to see a bodily transformation? He slept with Shaw 1-2 hours after the spiked drink but it wasn't until the next day he began overtly changing.

Holloway was fed a microchip? I don't remember that. I thought it was a small drop of the goo stuck on David's finger. Must look at that again.

it was an android booger :)

Quote-[i]"Another reason is the time frame because Holloway was fed a microchip but it took how many hours to see a bodily transformation?" ~Uneeque[/i] @Uneeque; Holloway was not fed a microchip... He was very clearly given a drop of the liquid David found in the urn. The way it was set up in the movie was very well done and unmistakable.

some of the answers to your questions can be found here: http://www.projectprometheus.com/genesis/ - download shaw's archive files and read her notes Scott made this story, and he made it so you can uncover some answers, but those who discard it and give up on it because it's not right in their face will lose. Like Shaw, we must dig and look and never give up if we want to keep going. genius ridley!

@meidz....zip won't open for me. Can you state the applicable answers?

@moon&svanya...........I looked at it again and you might be right. I thought it was a microchip because it came out of the top of the green cylinder and it didn't have any changes on David's finger. Even though he is synthetic he ate and drank like people and it does not make sense the goo would have no effect on artificial life. Also, what looked like little holes may have just been a light reflection but the goo did not appear to be highly reflective. Lastly, Holloways drink was perfectly clear so I didn't see how dropping black goo in it would not change the color. It looked like the chip was an ingredient to make the goo.

Let me be the first to say that Ridley is a genius, and that I don't give up on his ideas. However, the creator idea is a hiccup in the story. We're only given the drawings as evidence. The crew of the Prometheus is only given the drawings as evidence. So we're sitting there thinking, "so...why does she believe this? It doesn't make sense." We find out in some interviews that their *thesis* was complex and led to the creator idea via intricate discovered evidence and theories. But the movie only reveals that, "she chooses to believe it." We as the audience *must* believe that Shaw is jumping to a conclusion that doesn't make sense because we don't have the necessary information to assist us. And, there's no logistical, rational reason to keep this information from the audience (or the crew!). We, unfortunately, need an interview form Ridely to get us there. That shouldn't happen. There *should* be enough information for us to decipher it without input from the director offline.

okay [IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/33mq3jc.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i48.tinypic.com/s16zdi.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i50.tinypic.com/nlwkdc.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/1zvzy2a.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i48.tinypic.com/9jp3x2.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/2zegn10.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/14l5cn.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i50.tinypic.com/2bpn2a.jpg[/IMG]

@Uneeque; Here is an old thread that contains a video that explains what the Engineer drank, and that it is indeed set on primordial earth: [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/8460]Black liquid/Black goo. DNA breakdown told by the special effects crew. Confirmed it was on Earth[/url] The synthetics/androids of the Alien universe can eat and drink, they just gain no nutrition from doing so, it's purely a social thing. David was most likely mimicking human behavior, esp. when he "snacks" while watching the movie. He also dyes his hair, something a robot doesn't need to do either. :) Here is a link that explains more on the subject: [url=http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Synthetic]Androids of the Alien universe[/url] Finally, here is the image of the drop on David's finger. As you can see it is not a microchip. [IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/v5yfiu.png[/IMG]

Mala'kak, that (intriguingly) makes a David8 unit ESSENTIAL to any long-term space voyage, in the role of SHEPHERD. He has to remain conscious to help the cryo-sleeping travellers remain connected to their physical selves, otherwise their psyches might dissolve? [list] The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures; [/list] [list] He leads me beside still waters; [/list] [list] He restores my soul. He leads me in right paths For His Name's sake. [/list] [list] Even though I walk through the darkest valley, I fear no evil; [/list] [list] For you are with me; [/list] [list] Your rod and Your staff - they comfort me. [/list] He would appear in their dreams to replay their lives for them and retain the connections in the brain, otherwise they'd simply VEGETABLISE in cryosleep -- I'm sure this is one of the effects of 'induced coma' that your memories/personality slip from grasp as neurones corrode naturally, over time.

Yes ambiguity (or perhaps more accurately vagueness in this case)- clever people spot it and realize they are being played - not so clever people read into it and think it sooo deep :P ... either way it creates interest and money there fore it will not be going away just yet in films :P ! Not that I am saying it shouldn't be used - just in the right amounts!

@custodian......David invaded Shaw's dreams without her permission.

@svanya......thanks for the links. I take the avp link with a big grain of salt. I understand the social aspects of David but it seemed odd he would be eating out of social norm while everyone was in stasis. He was dying his hair to look more like the actor and probably because those androids are written to take on unique characteristics of their own. The video answered the question it was on earth but it doesn't say what the Engineer drank and it doesn't make sense the engineer drank the black goo for a couple of reasons. It totally destroyed his DNA and did not mutate his body. On lv223 the engineers were dead for a couple thousand of years. if the opening scene was on primordial earth, how much time passed between then and Shaw's team entering the ship on 223? Meaning, if the black goo was responsible for wiping them out, how did they survive between primordial earth and 223? Why didn't the black goo change the color of Holloways drink?

Definition of ambiguous (adj) bing.com · Bing Dictionary am·big·u·ous [ am bíggyoo əss ] having more than one meaning: having more than one possible meaning or interpretation

@mala......since Prometheus is a prequel and the deacon is a proto alien, what happened in the 28 years between Shaw leaving 233 and Ripley arriving on.426?

@Uneeque: If I described to you what the Engineer actually drank, you wouldn't understand it. Nor would I. It's super hi-tech stuff. It is almost certainly not the same black stuff that we see later in the movie. Ridley explains on his commentary to the movie that the creatures at the beginning are Engineers, so I hope that clears up a question that you asked earlier. He also mentions something to the effect that the stuff he drinks breaks down his body at a molecular level and what's left integrates with primitive life (like lichen) that already exists on the planet to seed life.

Uneeque yes hence the reason I said prometheus is more vague than ambiguous - I do know the difference! Allot of people have been shouting about its ambiguousness but haven't stopped to check what it means!