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SabotAndHeat
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 9:20 AMDear Sir Ridley Scott
The odd thing is for the most part Prometheus is good as a standalone science fiction movie. The problem is it’s not a standalone science fiction movie. It’s a companion piece to the Aliens saga. While not a direct tie in to the events in ‘Alien’, the gears are supposed to mesh. With that being said, my first statement to you, Sir Scott would be, “Just tell me to my face, honestly that when you constructed the Space Jockey set piece on Alien that you viewed it as a suit with a humanoid inside.” If yes, then why does it have sunken eyes and a gaping jaw with teeth?
While watching the Prometheus extras, the writer stated that he felt it was necessary to make the Space Jockey into something humanoid in order for the audience to connect to it. This statement grated on me. Did he forget what the entire feel of…the entire purpose, the definition of Alien is? You aren’t supposed to connect; it’s supposed to be strange and frightening. Yes, I understand that the name ‘Alien’ more specifically pointed to the zenomorph, but you can’t deny that the Space Jockey, the derelict and his cargo qualified as alien.
In life there are many things you can spend in order to show what causes you support, what corporations you buy into. These are the things you care about. The most commonly understood is money. You spend it on things you want and you can run out of it. Voting on a president; you have one vote to spend every four years, so make it count. But, another thing humans can spend is time. Time is finite for humans. We only have so much. So when we spend it following your stories, you may want to think better of us. It seems silly to assume that as movie goers you expect us to follow the bread crumbs of information you lay out in the Alien movie…only to tell us that they weren’t bread crumbs at all, but gummy bears. This kind of mind game creates a situation where all the previous effort spent pondering the details you placed in the movie is wasted. It can disappoint and dishearten a fan like nothing else. Why waste time studying Prometheus when you can just make Prometheus 2 and tell us that the Engineers weren’t really the Engineers. The Engineers were just a suit with another creature inside of it. Silly.
Regardless of my dissatisfaction with Prometheus as an Alien companion piece, I have still tried to ponder what it means; the black goo, the sacrifice at the beginning, the deacon, etc. The problems with these aspects and how they mesh with Alien are many in my opinion.
I always pictured the zenos as a naturally occurring aberration that happened to have an insatiable desire to kill other species. It also had an even more insatiable desire to reproduce when presented with a valid living vessel. Oh, and by the way, the reproduction cycle still kills the living vessel. It was all very primeval. Now it’s by design. It’s not the creatures tenacity at survival that makes it mean. It’s design to do those things. It’s now understandable, a designer zeno.
In the original Alien, the derelict and the Space Jockey were delivered as being ancient. You sold me on it. I felt as though this craft was lost in time. At least time as humans see it. Perhaps this species lived thousands of years? Either way it felt old. Now, the writer (in Prometheus extras) stated that the Deacon alien was a pure viral form and that the zenomorph in the Aliens movies were a polluted strain. If this is so, then the Alien movie zeno’s were products of a polluted reproduction method; the eggs, facehuggers, chestbursters etc. Therefore, they couldn’t s exist, in that form, before the events in Prometheus. This means that the Space Jockey, with cargo of ‘polluted’ eggs crashed within 40 years from the events in Prometheus. Why forty years? According to the Aliens saga timeline the Prometheus launched in 2085AD and the Nostromo picks up the derelict signal in 2122AD. Not a lot of time for the Space Jockey to fossilize as supposed in ‘Alien’.
Now, taking Sir Scott’s bread crumbs (against better judgment) and pondering at what the goo might be…I developed a theory. If these Engineers created humans, and engineered the black goo, it seems silly to use the black goo to create creatures designed solely to kill humans or any species for that matter. Why kill a planet off with creatures like the deacon when you’ll only have to rid the deacons later, in order to terraform. It’s a bit like the soldier monkeys skit on Saturday Night Live. So, I theorized that perhaps the Engineers view themselves as perfect; perhaps they have their own self righteous inclinations. Perhaps they are so autocratic in their decisions that they decide to create a lateral race to themselves that are less than pure, but can choose their own destiny (a bit biblical.) Maybe the black goo is the genetic form of pure evil (at least in the Engineers eyes) and the Engineers themselves are the “pure form” of righteousness. It would technically also re-introduce the sexuality that the Engineers, by the writers own words, have risen above and discarded. It would be a watered down sexuality compared with that sexuality which drives zeno biology. When the sacrifice happens, it’s the destruction of the “pure form” DNA by the “evil form” DNA and ultimate recombination of both that is held out as the origins of man. This “evil” DNA alone turning creatures into mindless killing machines matches with Prometheus events…however, if all of this is true, the Deacon will essentially need to be far more “evil” that its "polluted" zenomorph kin.
Again, the movie viewed as a standalone is good. However, simple logic mistakes were still made. Much of it was bad writing. The first was the Fifeild and Milburn team. Once they are confronted with the first alien, dead and decapitated, they both agree that aliens are bad and getting the hell away is good. Later this behavior is confirmed by their response to the captain stating there is an intermittent life form blip. What is there response? It’s to go the other direction. But, they take a terrifyingly wrong alteration in logic when confronted by a living alien hammerpede. Milburn all but, courts and marries it. It gets to first base with him too! I digress.
Then there is the issue with the scientists taking helmets off in a breathable space. Hmmm. Breathable spaces don’t mean safe to breathe. Every day on Earth, in real life, diseases kill humans that were transmitted by inhalation. Why on a far away planet would you risk this behavior? Didn’t you see how War of the Worlds ended? It should have been penned like this…Scientist 1, “Wow, the scanners are reading this is breathable air in here. It points to terraforming activity.” Scientist 2, “Good information, keep your damn helmets and let’s keep moving.”
Here is one last one. When the Engineer leaves the freshly crashed ship looking for revenge, he’s not wearing a helmet. Now as discussed in the previous paragraph, they breathe similar air. Then how did he make it from the crashed ship to the escape pod with no helmet? He held his breathe? Ok fine, how did he know the escape pod had air? Why risk it when you can suit up and clearly get off the planet using other available ships, should you manage to kill that tiny little human female?
Prometheus is good. But, it could have been great. My advice towards saving Prometheus, it’s sequel and its ability to mesh with Alien is to continue with the Engineers, but make them a slave or cultish sect of humanoids that do as the real Space Jockey tell them (this can also explain away size issues with the two creatures. i.e. from Alien to Prometheus, the “Space Jockey” Engineer got shorter). The Engineers dress and emulate the elephantine race and even co-use technology. Continue with the idea that the black goo is “evil” DNA, but the zeno’s themselves are naturally occurring. The Engineers, following the whims of the Space Jockey race, have learned to break down the aggressive/”evil” nature built in the Zenos and distill it into black goo. This prevents the zeno’s from being put in a cage, from being boxed in and manufactured. It makes the eggs and the Space Jockey corpse on the derelict ancient again. Most importantly, it also keeps the jaw gaping corpse on LV-426 NOT an Engineer, but it keeps the engineers in the universe. (Why would the Engineers want to create humans using the black goo? Maybe they are aware that they are hopelessly in servitude and wish to create a progeny that can resist.)
Thank you, regardless of my opinions.
Take care Sir Ridley Scott.
Sincerely a fan,
Sabot And Heat
36 Replies
Little Incentive
MemberOvomorphOct-18-2012 5:52 AM[i]"Ta very much for making such a different movie, and leaving plenty of doors open to see more and more of the alien universe. Get around to LV-426 in your own good time, in a couple of movies or so..."[/i]
"...when you're in the your mid-80s and senilty has [i]really[/i] taken hold".
Custodian
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 9:25 AMnah, Prometheus IS its own 'pilot film' for the new Engineer franchise; essentially has 'nothing to do with' Alien.
I'm not sure whether it'll father 'two more films' or be relegated to a Stargate-like TV series.
plenty of 'mutation of narrative' happened during the (rushed?) writing of the screenplay with Spaihts, then Lindelof.
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
SabotAndHeat
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 9:38 AM[i]Essentially having[/i] nothing to do with Alien is not the same as [i]having[/i] nothing to do with Alien.
The burden of that decision fell on Sir Scott...to link it or not to link it. That was the question. He chose. Thus the review.
Cypher
Co-AdminMemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 9:51 AMI second this Sabot and Heat. Heartily. And I still hate the term "Xenomorph" for the Alien ;-)
[url=http://www.robocopmovie.net/][img]http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac89/snorkelbottom/NewRoboBanner.jpg[/img][/url]
"Is it dead this time?" "I dunno, poke it with this stick and see."
Custodian
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 9:52 AMS&H,
it sounds (to me, and others) like the production just got a bit muddled then ABANDONED its intended prequelness. Long live the new franchise.
*shrugs*
FOOTNOTE: that ending sequence with the 'Deacon' was so 'superfluous to requirements' for this film, it ANGERED me a lot when they jammed it onto the end of the film. It detracted from that most obvious of endings, the second juggernaut's flight to Paradise. The franchise could have 'done without it' at no cost to future episodes(!)
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
OldGuy
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 9:56 AMBoth FOX and Ridley Scott described the effort in 2009 as the Alien prequel thus linking the two in the alien universe.
I think that most of us believe that the writing rather than the film execution is at fault here. And the appearance of the Deacon at the end feels forced to me - as if FOX said "we need to reference the original more directly so do something similar to a chest-burster scene" ...... anyone else feel that way?
In Space, no one can hear you fart.
OldGuy
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 10:03 AMIt seems Custodian and I agree on the Deacon.
In Space, no one can hear you fart.
Custodian
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 10:18 AMOldGuy,
we do.
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
aintnozeno
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 10:24 AMI enjoyed Prometheus as a stand-alone film. It left a great deal out that would have made it better, but I'm left wondering if our many discussions and wants before it's theatrical release set us all up for that. Our many theories were great, but I think many of us had preconceived notions on the film that no director could possibly work around. That said, Mr. Scott has no need or care what WE come up with, and he shouldn't. This movie was his to make.
OK, disclaimer finished.... The biggest gripe I have with this entire thing came last night while watching the BD and playing the commentary. Mr. Scott was speaking of the Juggernaut, and said he wanted to answer questions from the original Alien: Who the jockey was AND WHERE THE ALIEN/ EGGS ON THE DERELICT CAME FROM. Do what?
The maddening thing for me is that he says this film had "Alien DNA", but he did NOT see it as a prequel to Alien. He made many attempts to distance this film from Alien, but then talks of using scenes to tie them together.
To go back to a few weeks before the theatrical release, I think the suits at Fox decided after seeing the film to remove themselves from blame and start pushing the "it's not a prequel" crap. I think after the final cut was made, they saw it would GREATLY disappoint fans, and just started making excuses. All the talk of it is or it is not a prequel from Fox and Mr. Scott is almost comical- to the point that it sounds like everything on television during an election year.
I can only hope that the sequel to this non-prequel will deliver a bit more answers. For my BD at least, NO QUESTIONS WERE ANSWERED. I just have more questions!
End of rant!
Custodian
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 10:58 AMSeconded,
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
Ruhaniya
Veteran MemberMemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 11:35 AMDear Sir Ridley Scott, I'm hitting the helmet bong for you right now!
zzplural
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 11:49 AMDear Sir Ridley,
Ta very much for making such a different movie, and leaving plenty of doors open to see more and more of the alien universe. Get around to LV-426 in your own good time, in a couple of movies or so.
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent
Major Noob
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 12:01 PMGod forbid an artist should reinterpret their own work. Go for the comfort of the familiar, RS. The people have spoken! You WASTED THEIR TIME. You LET THEM DOWN. Nice try, though.
shambs
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 12:04 PMDear Santa, Tooth Fairy and Buddha...Would it be possible to get some answers in the sequel? I've been a good boy this year btw ^^
SabotAndHeat
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 12:14 PM@ Throcken
Yes, Xenomorph. Silly Z sounding X.
@ Major Noob
When art is [u]sold[/u], buyer opinion becomes a decision point. Besides, towing the party line is no answer either.
@ Old Guy
I concur with your assessment of the Deacon...but for the sake of future sequels its part of the [b]X[/b]enobiology now.
Major Noob
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 12:42 PMI also don't think the responsibility can be laid at Ridleys feet. He didn't finance the movie.
Major Noob
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 12:35 PMS&H- you're right. But it's still the artists prerogative. They made choices based on demands maybe too complex to satisfy. But they did try. I'm an Alien fan. I'm happy with the original. But it's impact as noted above can't be replicated. They had to take a new direction. They had fun with that. And they wanted you to have fun too. I wish you did. But at the end of the day, I just don't think RS and co. deserves to be chastised for their efforts. Their efforts here were gargantuan.
SabotAndHeat
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 12:50 PM@ Major Noob
I concur that there is artistic interpretation. I am an sketch artist my self. I do occasionaly sell my work for tattoos, etc. But, when a request for a specific peice is made, artistic license is reduced and the buyers input has to be infused. It's highly unlikely that without our (the fans) interest, Prometheus would have been made. The fact that he didnt finance this is exactly my point. His job is to produce a product that the people want to see.
I also whole heartedly concur that the demands are far too complex to satisfy everyone. But, many of my (and others) points are simple. This is why I proposed a simple question to Sir Ridley Scott.
It's important to add that I thought the idea of running in another direction was a [b]great[/b]....I say again...[b]great[/b] idea. It could only enrich the Alien universe. To a certain extent, it has.
To be fair, I'm not chastising Sir Scott. I'm voicing my opinions and even ended my letter with a hearty thank you dispite my thoughts.
Good conversation.
Looking forward to Prometheus 2 (with fingers crossed.)
OldGuy
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 12:52 PMIs that what is is, Major Noob - Scott's "reinterpretation" of a previous work or is Prometheus a "stand-alone" project? Perhaps for many of us our expectations were driven by the fact that both RS and the studio touted this project as the Alien Prequel. As such it fails to shed much light onto the events on LV-426 and the Space Jockey and introduces the Engineers and the origin of the human race as another plot device.
In Space, no one can hear you fart.
Cerulean Blue
MemberFacehuggerOct-11-2012 1:41 PMI guess HR Giger needs to explain his artwork, so it makes sense, too?
Really....c'mon folks, it is all art!
Take what you take from it, that is all.
SabotAndHeat
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 1:49 PMPondering the artwork versus product argument, a funny quote popped into mind.
"Had you raised the money yourself, Mr. Holloway, we'd happily be pursuing your agenda"
Cerulean Blue
MemberFacehuggerOct-11-2012 1:53 PM@SabotAndHeat - That quote is perfect! Good-hearted ol' Vickers!
King
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 1:56 PM@SabotAndHeat i feel almost the same exact way, its should have really been a film on its own taken place in a different universe but shares the visuals of alien, and yes i wish they would have used the original elephantine space jockey, but seems that cant be the case anymore, i feel the derelict has somewhat been downgaded and not as mysterious or ancient as it should have been. same goes for the alien evolution and that they were supposed to be naturally occurring organisms. Although prometheus wasnt bad on its own, i still think that fans deserve to see the lovecraftean like creature that was the elephantine Space Jockey.
[img width=351 height=150]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ML_kFkjpdzE/SK6uPUT8iKI/AAAAAAAAGm4/tzk1lye2eZE/s400/vlcsnap-94269.jpg[/img] "Frostmourne Hungers"
Custodian
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 3:06 PMKing,
[i]"Although prometheus wasnt bad on its own, i still think that fans deserve to see the lovecraftean like creature that was the elephantine Space Jockey."[/i]
It was, I've just seen it again since I decided it has NOTHING TO DO with Alien (nothing to do with 'who was the original fossilised space jockey?' and 'what about derelict's eggy cargo?') and I really enjoyed it for what it was; the pilot film for a new Engineer franchise.
Forget Alien, everyone else in this production has, or they will come Prometheus 3, 5, 9. Or if/when the Fox TV series is announced.
BTW, David/Shaw - does it bother NO ONE that there heroic story, their visit to Paradise isn't canon. It's never mentioned (even as an aside) in the post-Alien franchise. Nope, I don't think they make it back. But the franchise is ripe for future harvesting.
:)
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
Major Noob
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 3:25 PMTo all:-
Reinterpret was a poor choice of words, though the similarities in story arc between Alien and Prometheus are many. What they did was run with certain concepts from Alien that were unexplored up until now. The origins of certain things, the reproductive horrors. If they had done a stand alone film people woukd have decried the similarities. Scott wanted to go back, and he did.
There are some answers, but some don't like them. I totally get that. I love to read, but I can count the number of books that really satisfied me, even from my favorite authors, on one hand. Theres always something I don't like, a sentence, a character, an idea. Their aesthetic simply cant match my own. The same principle applies here.
Theres a thread a couple of posts back that links to a recent interview with Jon Spaihts wherein he says Fox wanted the rewrite, to not revisit the spent Alien franchise, and that Fox brought in Lindelof. This is among the reasons I don't think it's fair to hold Ridleys feet to the fire. That, and I think he delivered a brilliant film.
The Juggernaut is indeed different, which suggests to me a different model or an adaption. There were other clues that suggest the giant Ganesha Space Jockey is not out of the picture, for example David needing a ladder to open the door. They had a lot to say in this movie and tried to say it as efficiently as possible, and thus we are left to figure certain things out for ourselves via clues. This for me is great fun, though I can well see how it would it would be frustrating. I can see too how many would rather it have just been left alone. There are some vivid imaginations here, which can be a curse when anticipating something. But hey, when's the last time you saw a movie quite like this?
SabotAndHeat
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 3:58 PM @ Major Noob
[i]when's the last time you saw a movie quite like this?[/i]
Yes! Absolutely why I still like it.
OldGuy
MemberOvomorphOct-11-2012 7:53 PM Understood, @Major Noob. Actually I think that Ridley has delivered a visually stunning achievement which does in fact stand on its own. I've managed to sit through 3 viewings in the past two days and I see new things each time.
Like when David returns to the juggernaught control room with Weyland he briefly passes through a hallway where stands either a space jockey mask and suit OR a space jockey statue. I'll check it again (wife permitting) but has anyone else determined what this is?
In Space, no one can hear you fart.
Cerulean Blue
MemberFacehuggerOct-12-2012 8:40 AM@OldGuy - I thought there were (4) SJ suits at the control room entrance?
Much like the space suits we see Shaw/David/Vickers passing by in the Prometheus?
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