Dr. Shaw, is she real?

I would lay off eating cheese before you go to bed!

@zzplural Big things have small beginnings! Everything is possible! How do you explain the fact that we see David8 watch only her dreams and not anyone else's dreams? Do you have a convincing answer?

Hey I love cheese!

David is shown later communicating with Weyland in the same dream state... That would be pretty amazing if a robot was able to have a sperm looking alien baby though.

I have to agree with zzplural. Shaw did have the lead role in this story. So the reason why David only watched her dreams (or why we only saw him watching hers) was because she was more important to the story than the others. They did spend a long time in cryosleep you know. So I wouldn't be surprised if he already watched the others dreams during that time, and grew bored of them. I'm sorry to say it, but in my opinion, your'e pretty far off! :) But that of course is just my opinion.

Geopap, not sorry, I am leaving you and this idea of yours on your own....

I think that Shaw may be related to C3-PO.

@Lee Harram How can you be so sure that the man David communicates with is Weyland and not someone else? In a dreamy state the brain cannot communicate consciously with the real world. Anyway this is my "thesis", some will find it interesting others will ridicule it. @Rubirosa And the helmet of David8 to see dreams is Vader's sleeping mask. @SubsumYou Your problem not mine pal! This is a forum! Read the three previous threads to read the ideas expressed and you will see why I believe this.

I always liked the color yellow.

@Rubirosa Me too! [img]http://www.swiss-miss.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/cvr_b_Yellow_Submarine_dvd_front1.jpg[/img]

ok here we go back to my theory from before the film, when i thought they might combine the bladerunner stuff with this. Now it's looking like they are at least making easter egg references to each other but I really think there could be more. It might not be a coincidence that a new Blade-runner movie is going to be coming out, or simply cross-promotion. The stories could still be separate but they could share some elements and one character. Prometheus in the future, Blade runner in the past. But for this to work Weyland must be deceiving us more than we know-- portraying himself as more of a god/king than we know, and actually had a lot of help from his mentor that he doesn't want to talk about. He doesn't even want to admit how long it took him to fix the environment, his nobel peace prize was given prematurely to a Weyland who only saved the polar ice caps at that point. He would have to implement the atmospheric processor and other techniques on a wider scale. for this he may have needed help, and in the future he rewrites the past to make it appear he is truly a godly sort of man... when really he stole power and used his brilliance and cunning to make it out on top of all the competition... except Yutani. The victor rewrites the past/ the timeline, so Weyland makes it appear he solved global warming, alone, at a much earlier date. The people of 2091 are sheep who don't question enough and don't question authority (David and Weyland). What if theses androids have been made too real? And they aren't really androids, but more like Weyland testing out a cross between replicants and androids. Grown, created, and combined to try to control them, to try to avoid what happened to Tyrell. The Biological Replicants mixed with the mechanical Androids. The first Davids were all mechanical but by the time the David 3 comes out the world bans the David design for a while. Eventually the timeline says Davids became legal again. You'll notice in all the interviews leading up to the release they almost never call David an "android". LIndelof, Ridley an co all use the same word: "robot" , which can be very vague and ambiguous in this universe and sci-fi. What if Vickers was a prototype and she was the first Bio-mechanical creation of the company and is only partially a robot, a weird mix of bio and mechanical like Shaw's mix of science and faith? Is that Vickers there in the background of the cave scene? What if David is a better, more obedient mixture of the Replicant-android hybrid design and the closest thing he'll have to a son because Weyland only produces his offspring. Vickers is leaning more towards the replicant design as a prototype but he's almost engineered out the expiry date Tyrell built in... He also seeks to stop his own expiry date from approaching... And if he gets the key to immortality his replicant droids can be truly immortal too. Weyland had to make David more mechanical than Vickers because Vickers would have eventually expired anyway. David is mostly mechanical but has some real biology to him-- adding more weight to Holloway's statement about them making them even more real. Right now Weyland is taking a step away from purely mechanical androids to try to combine his technology with Tyrell's technology of the past-- we won't understand this until after Bladerunner 2. By the time Alien comes about some problems have been noted with these Androids and Weyland-Yutani takes it back to a completely synthetic design with Ash. Weyland was crazy, he had reserved the name David for his real son (from the timeline) which he never had. He may have been obsessed with making this David more and more real. Explaining the 8 versions of him. David could have his whole emotional understanding because his brain has been partially grown as well as other parts of him-- fused with his mechanical side... to allow a mechanical being to almost be real by giving it parts of the brain that are responsible for emotion, belief, imagination, curiosity, personality, and conscience. Weyland tried to make his son follow a mixture of programming and normal human ideas of right and wrong but David's logical side is allowing him to make choices based on what he believes. He may have a bio-mechanical brain that is tricking the biological parts into thinking they're alive... At first David believes he is only able to understand emotion and not feel it because he has it in him and joined to his mechanical/logical side of the bio-mech mind but it hasn't joined completely. At this point he's still inhibited by his mechanical side. Over the 2.5 years a complex neural network developed and joined with the emotional/real/replicant design side of his brain that holds false beliefs instead of memories... He develops a personality that has a form of an ego-problem, although David is very confident and competent. It's that his personality is so heavily influenced by a lot of things that are mostly unseen, and as he progresses through the film we begin to see a little more emotion coming out of him. Even though his cybernetic brain has been given parts that allow it to almost feel, it can only gain an understanding of the feelings it now houses within itself and can mostly choose what to believe and suppresses some emotion from showing because it's necessary to David's plan. I really think this whole new series is about David and the Elders more so than anything but will cover a lot of bases along the way in the sequel. He had to have the set up for David and we had to be deceived by him in Prometheus to be placed in the position of the company in Paradise, coming from a "wtf just happened to our mission perspective and what is this robot up to? Is he trying to launch a rebellion against all of its creators, is it trying to overthrow its masters and climb to the very top of the ladder, even above the Elders to be King/Emperor because he thinks he has the intelligence to lead? David is like an extremely gifted child. His emotion wasn't fully developed when he was born but it's developing now and he thinks he's more mature than he is because of his intelligence... Weyland was the same way. Even though he had his 12th patent when he was 14 he still had the emotions of a teenager because of the way humans develop. Just saying maybe some of the timeline is propaganda and someone propped him up. Much of his early success probably came from his own brilliant mind, but along with that came his ego because of his successes. Investors were propping him up the whole time and the new addition to the timeline tells us he had many patents pending that were worth so much it made Weyland worth more than any other company in existence as soon as it came into existence. It was created to be a king of companies and quickly starts absorbing other big corporations in the timeline. I think Weyland did have help and a mentor in the beginning, someone who plucked him up because of his brilliance and guided him but ends up losing all his power to him. Weyland was not a god, he just portrays himself that way. The Weyland timeline makes no bone about mentioning how Weyland has absorbed powerful companies in the past, what if someone was guiding him for part of it. What if Weyland had partners and mentors he betrayed and stole from??... Rewrote history after they saved the environment to make Weyland appear to be a god/king of the earth who saved everyone at an earlier date-- lying to the sheep of 2091, and making the timeline reflect his own egotistical image as a god. Winning a lawsuit against the one company who tried to challenge him by stealing his David design (Yutani lawsuit described in the timeline) The timeline is partially propaganda for the current king, but we may not understand this until after Bladerunner 2 plays out and we see what becomes of Tyrell corp and a young mentor. This brings us to Shaw. Is she real, is she some sort of bio-mechanical android like David and Vickers? If she's grown and created are her memories implanted. Did Weyland make a mistake by implanting a memory about choosing what to believe in her and this transfers onto David, because Shaw is even more real than David and has the ability to completely pass as human like Vickers. Because the brain is completely based on the replicant design-- making her believe she's human. Ironically this would be the one thing she doesn't choose to believe because it's worked into her fake memory that's been planted like a recording. David watches this and knows what's going on. Shaw's real and not real at the same time like him. Biologically she's real but she may have artificial elements within her mind-- so the opposite of David and more similar to Vickers. Each of them are the latest versions and prototype androids sent to lead the crew and possibly to deceive Holloway/Weyland before him and Shaw met... They hijack Holloway's thesis which will be further expanded on in Paradis. The quiet eye was only monitoring Shaw to make sure she achieves her goals and goes undetected because both are Yutani property... Shaw may be the Yutani version of Vickers and interfered with Weyland's plans though she didn't know it. David didn't think Shaw "had it in her". Yutani has secretly been monitoring everything their chaotic king has done, and even resorted to stealing at one point to analyze the David and aid their own robotics division... They're now coming to collect Shaw from LV-223, but Shaw is already gone when they arrive. They find a reborn Holloway who's been recreated and morphed into a demi-god after his sacrifice. They witness the deacon morphing Vickers' crushed corpse and think Holloway-monster is a survivor at first like when Fifield returns. Holloway monster knows they're looking for Shaw and defends them against the Deacon spawn and Vickers/ Weyland monster before they take off. Yutani tries to act as a police force, and sometimes a source of internal investigation/infiltration in the world if Weyland is the king who mistreats his servants... to the point of denying him authority to have weapons on his ships or conduct unsafe missions-- forcing the Prometheus project to be a corporate secret, and only interesting Yutani more... She has the full replicant design as a body plan and base, but her mind is mostly artificial... Theron didn't lie when she said Vickers was dead and not a "robot". More like a cyborg. They've been made too real. Weyland tried to combine his technology with his mentors but it backfires badly and by the time the Alien movies happen full snythetics need to be used again because they're easier to control. Making this a bridge between the Blade Runner and Alien series. Connected to each but mainly about the Engineers and their bio-mechanics, hybrid mixtures, and the engineered and their bio-mechanics.

In the Blade Runner timeline the Tyrell corp is now headless because of what happened to Tyrell at the end. Is Tyrell corp going to even come into it in a big way now that the head is dead? Sometimes when a leader of a culture is killed it negatively effects the culture. The culture can start to go into a period of decline, or rapid change and advancement. A rising leader can even come up and usurp all the power of the former leader. Weyland didn't kill Tyrell but if he knew him he might have tried to take his place atop the pyramid, appropriating everything and continuing to call his kingdom Weyland to fool the investors into believing him more brilliant and godly than he was. In Prometheus the Weyland kingdom is now headless after the king dies. Thanks to some subtle manipulation done by David who was under far greater control, but is now breaking free from that control in a different way than Replicants. Replicants just wanted to kill their creator-- to kill their parent. Weyland and his legacy of these early prototype bio-mechanical androids are after their spot on the throne... they don't only want to kill their creators/parents. They want to replace them as head of the hierarchy... All the head themes and detached/decapitated heads are completely tied into this... David is the "head" that survives after being severed from the body of the company. The body of the company= the kingdom. This may lead to some interesting things for Shaw when David gets reattached as a surviving head and almost the natural (though deceitful) leader, a god-king, the immortal being of the story so far, and the closest thing to a "Prince".

Right!

"...How can you be so sure that the man David communicates with is Weyland and not someone else?.. I also thought of this,,,but I couldn't think of any others in this story that David would be talking to.. There is a possibility that a member of Weyland's security team was a 'higher up'..somehow stayed with the last engineer's crashed vessel...survived

@Indy John Maybe he is taking orders from Ridley Scott himself! Maybe Prometheus is a game between our perception and David8's dream, but the mastermind behind all this is Ridley Scott the director of the movie (game). Take a look at this snapshot after the dialogue of David8 with this mysterious master, he is entering a blue lighted corridor like he is entering the dream again and encounters Vickers. [img]https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbi0xjl6d61r33wv9o1_1280.png[/img] [quote]Vickers: Oh, my God! I will find the cord that makes you run and I will cut it. (watch the blue color that surrounds them, David8 is enterring the dream again and Vickers wants a compass of what will happen next)[/quote] Why did she say it? To which cord was she referring to? David8 is an autonomous unit, the cord that connects them in this virtual world maybe?

....Vickers: Oh, my God! I will find the cord that makes you run and I will cut it.,,,, I am glad you mention this dialog..as it seemed clouded in meaning, Vichers is ..if anything,,a direcxt speaking,,and acting kind of charactor... I had not thought about entering some sort of dream state,,,with the blue lighting the scene. Also she was waiting for David as he rounded the curve,,I assume she had some way of watching the whole David/Weyland scene and decided on the confortation.. Also remember when David turns off his visor feed to Vickers,,before entering the orrey ? An act of defiance,,by David..something more must be inferred by his actions..and her re-action..,, Couldn't the Prometheus have activated David's video feed..even if turned off..some sort of system override.. Thanks for the dream suggestion..

when she got the c-section she was red on the inside like a human, alien universe replicants are white goop on the inside.

@belladonna If she was a creation of Tyrell co., then her blood is like ours "more human than human" remember? In Blade Runner, the replicants' blood was red.

but this wasnt blade runner...... lol

In a post it was mentioned that Tyrell and Weyland are in the same universe.

did ridly scott say that?

It has been hidden in Alien (1979), if you read the threads I linked in the very first post of this thread, you will see how I connect them. Everything is a dream created by Tyrell as an experiment. [img]http://i50.tinypic.com/20zoemt.jpg[/img] In the line above the "Personal Data" section you will see the name Tyrell mentioned.

i still do not think she is a replicant and BLEH i would hate to think of everything as a dream.

I don't read Shaw is anything but an impressionable Scientist,,that needs to get back to her roots.... By questioning anything she keep the search going for answers,,to events that she expereinces,, Shaw should become the scientist,,we saw in the openning scenes..searching Her attachment to the Cross...will cloud her judgement..and lead to a bitter disappointments in the next episode..., Vickers.. I am still not sure her robotic status..

@Indy John Could the term "terraforming" hide the term "ovumforming" which started with the fertilization from the running engineers (sperm)?

"..fertilization from the running engineers (sperm).." That is one story element that I may not have considered,, The Running Engineers indicate that they are not Robotic,,non Emotional beings,,they have a self preservation instinct.. Shaw has already been impregnated..by one species... I am not be sure of the 'how'but some form of 'Ovumforming' is not out of the realm of this storyline.. Now Shaw is on a an Engineer's ship heading for a Engineer's world ..THere will be adventure!

@Indy John Another clue in my opinion that "Prometheus" takes place in the dream realm and was created with allegories and metaphors from the real world is this picture. [img]https://lh3.ggpht.com/-HwMeUPO9eLE/UGb48MFyMEI/AAAAAAAACZQ/Wr43Baj6jOU/s1600/prometheus_earth-wide.jpg[/img] Remember where Dr. Shaw's father died? In Africa. David8 watched it in the dreams of Dr. Shaw.

There reference to Africa(also on the supplimental audio track),,was intentional,,but I didn't connect it to anything til your mention. The holograms,,orrey scene,..confrontation with Vickers in the hallway.,and even the use of the dream visor suggest more of a dream/subliminal state than reality.. I was going to dismiss your dream state suggesttion,,,but when I review the few items that support ,this thread I notice that they all involve David,,,, Maybe I am dreaming!

@Indy John Or maybe you are not dreaming at all! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [img]http://masempul.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/urn-glyphs.jpg[/img] Someone in this forum mentioned a very strange detail. Supposing that we are in the dream of David and the crew of Prometheus is connected to this dream, then if the temple room is actually David's head in the dream, with the black goo being a metaphor of the black matter of the human brain responsible for our intellectuality and the white liquid a metaphor of the white matter responsible for neuro-transmitting signals, then this explains the strange glyphs that are carved on the urns. So far, I wrote why I believe that the “Prometheus†universe is a subset (because it exists in the dream world) of the “Blade Runner†universe, now this idea that will follow makes perfect sense. The strange glyphs we saw on the urns that contained the “mysterious†black goo and the white liquid, are clearly of Sino-Tibetan or Sinitic origin, there is an unmistakable resemblance. In “Blade Runnerâ€, we saw that Roy Batty visited a place called “Chew's Labâ€, there he found a Chinese scientist who was creating eyes for replicants in a refrigerator room (does this remind you of the frozen temple room that should not be opened?), with the temperature below zero to preserve the genetic material that Dr. Chew was working on. Was the brain of David8 designed by Tyrell and “Western†scientists, but in fact was assembled with Chinese parts by Chinese people like Hannibal Chew? It is already happening today, everything we use from cell phones to laptops is made in China with “Western†technology. In “Blade Runner†we saw that Chinese and other Asiatic people had overwhelmed the streets of L.A. making the life so difficult to cope with in an already poor America, showing to us how much we can expect the world to change in the next decades. You remember of course the motto that was being spoken all the time “Helping America into the new world......â€, the American dream was long dead in the movie and in the off world colonies things were not so good, the creation and design of the combat models were another argument in favor of this not so peaceful world outside Earth. Now take a look at this photo and make the connections between, the frozen temple and the frozen lab in "Blade Runner" along with the strange writing on the urns, notice the Chinese writing character on the cube of the following picture. [img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110421012229/bladerunner/images/c/cd/Images-1.jpg[/img]

Your storyline is following a thread so thin..that ir could disappear...except that the clues you mention do seem to fit in. I just hope they are not clues,,searching for a story...but actual leads for Prometheus fans to follow. I couldn't see the clues you mention on my own....What is that song from the 1970's...Dream Weaver'? Maybe that was an impressionable age for Ridley..