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Regular Parrot
MemberOvomorphDec-30-2012 12:15 AMI was watching Prometheus one more time and at 10:30 running time into the movie I noted the specific reference to "Schleicher's Fable".
I checked it out on the Web. Please see the web link: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schleicher%27s_fable]Schleicher's fable[/url]
'The Sheep and the Horses'
'[On a hill,] a sheep that had no wool saw horses, one of them pulling a heavy wagon, one carrying a big load, and one carrying a man quickly. The sheep said to the horses: "My heart pains me, seeing a man driving horses." The horses said: "Listen, sheep, our hearts pain us when we see this: a man, the master, makes the wool of the sheep into a warm garment for himself. And the sheep has no wool." Having heard this, the sheep fled into the plain.'
I find it very intersting that a reference to a purely academic fable was made in a mass distributed movie. Is this a clue? Well, the fable is real, as is the author. Reading the Wikipedia page tells us that this linguist had developed the theory of languages evolving before Darwin (without using the 'evolution'; word but the concept). Schleicher was also an expert (like the linguist in the movie) as expert in the proto-language.
Does this fable have a context in the movie? Are the sheep & horses the humans and engineers, respectively? Are the master the Deacon or the "gods"? I don't know. MAy be this refence is just background and not a clue but I thought this forum maybe abke to figure that out (greater minds than me etc.)
This fable also echoes to me, the attitude of David prior to landing. He comments that 'there is nothing in desert and no man needs nothing'. This tells me that he is fully aware that the etntire crew is framing the upcoming encounter in purley anthropmorphic experiences. Whereas David has analyzed the situation objectively using his IQ of 350! He has realized that if there is anya ctive alein technology/presence on LV-223 then it will be dangerous becuase it is alien. Simply, we have no experince or understanding of what they need, what they have built becuase it it outside of knowledge.
I wonder if Schleicher adn Nitschke ever met or is there a link? Both were German and around in the middle of the nineteenth century.
*Link made clickable by Svanya
Today I have been dedicated to post on as many topics as possible until I pass out from drinking too many beers.
8 Replies
caenorhabhditis
MemberOvomorphDec-31-2012 9:23 AMi suppose the idea of 'things not always being as they seem' could be applied to the fable and the movie.... but i beleive it just because it is already used by the PIE linguists to show comparisons between one version of PIE and another the way (but not exactly) that you would used 'the rain in spain' to teach a linguistic principle
I LIKE WORMS! I LOVE WORMS!
nostromo001
MemberOvomorphDec-30-2012 2:50 AMRegular Parrot,
I think the writers added Schleicher's fable probably after getting technical support on PIE (protoindoeuropean) by the linguist Dr. Anil Biltoo, who also appeared as David's language teacher in the movie. Often a novel or movie will add a bit of reality as a literary device to provide realism to the story. For example Bram Stoker made use of actual European train time-tables while writing the section of Dracula regarding Johnathan Harker's journy by train to Transylvania. He similarly used Vlad Dracula as the principle villain after speaking with an Historian friend who told him all about Vlad Tepes the Impaler one night at dinner. As far as Schleicher's fable having metaphorical overtones with the motif of Prometheus, the movie I just don't see any parallels. If anyone else does I would be most interested to hear it.
[img]http://0.tqn.com/d/chemistry/1/0/E/1/1/chemistry-glassware.jpg[/img]
Ghosty
Veteran MemberMemberOvomorphDec-30-2012 4:29 AMYou see, there are so many references in this film, that sometimes we tend to actually pair things in AS references in our minds, even though they may not be.
This is intriguing however, considering you are definitely on to something here Parrot.
I will definitely have to keep my eye on this! :D
At the first light of this Unrelenting Dawn, all will see the world for it\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s entirety, not just it\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s shadows.
Indy John
MemberOvomorphJan-01-2013 9:56 PMHaving read this 4 sentence fable, at first blush, I didn't see any connection to our Prometheus story.
I would have to check other threads on PIE but thsi fable was written using a reconstructed text of PIE.
Is PIE a verbal language that has survived centuries before Schleicher created the text?
Kind of the opposite from Latin which survived in written form but not verbal.
Perhaps other posters will post what they see as connection to Prometheus from the Schleicher's fable
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
nostromo001
MemberOvomorphJan-02-2013 5:04 AMIndy, Schleicher was a linguist of the 1800s who may have himself invented the fable but at least he used it because it utilizes various instuctional linguistic cases. If you have ever studied a foreign language like German, which I did in college, there are several cases such as Dative, Accusative and Genative. To give you one example, genative is when there is possession implied as in 'that is his raincoat. In German you have to modify the verb and nouns as well as pronouns and articles to adjust for the genative case or else it will not sound correct to a German speaker. Schleicher's fable was constructed to demonstrate different cases and is more of a linguistic instuctional tool than a symbolic mythological motif. That is why I say it most likely does not contain direct symbolic or metaphoric relationships to Prometheus and I challenge anyone to come up with a solid metaphorical and symbolic analysis that works. Good luck those of you who believe the poster Parrot is on to something here. Give me a coherent analysis that makes sense and I will be the first to agree if it makes sense.
[img]http://0.tqn.com/d/chemistry/1/0/E/1/1/chemistry-glassware.jpg[/img]
Indy John
MemberOvomorphJan-02-2013 5:35 AMI have missed out on learning a different languange than English.
Thanks for mentioning the details needed to properly communicate in a non-English language.
As an instructional tool perhaps this fable has some merit. I found the story a bit humorous
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
BLANDCorporatio
MemberOvomorphJan-02-2013 7:25 AMirt. [b]Indy John[/b]:
PIE has not survived, either in spoken or written word. If you are feeling particularly cynical, you could say it didn't exist, ever.
Proto Indo European is a "reconstructed" language. It arose from observations that new languages borrow from the old, with changes to the sounds in the borrowed words eventually happening. Sound change also occurs inside a language as well.
It turned out that the patterns of sound change were fairly predictable, and they could be studied on families of languages which were recorded by history as existent (Latin, Slavic, etc).
Then, the patterns were extrapolated further in the past, noticing similarities between roots. It is indeed amazing, to me, to see how similar (if you squint a bit) the numbers one to ten are in my native language to those of Urdu, half a globe away.
There exist patterns of grammar change as well, and these can also be employed for trying to guess what PIE behaved like.
But, it must be stressed, it is a "reconstructed" language. It is supposed to have been spoken around 5000BC, before any writing, and would have changed and split into the many Indo-European languages of today.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
Indy John
MemberOvomorphJan-02-2013 7:46 AM Thanks for this succinct explanation of PIE.
I did read that it was a 'reconstructed language' but failed to graspthe wording really meant.
It is a bit clearer in hearing David and the Professor speak the language as it was quite foreign to any words i use.
It is amaziong how much detail went into this aspect of our movie.
That is why any flaw posters percieve in Prometheus is scutinized so much because it mimics what RS has done to bring this story to the screen and a worldwide audience.
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
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