The Evolution of the Deacon. Links to the Xenomorph Alien?

I think the Deacon is one more example of gene combinations influencing the final "product", heh heh. I think the Deacon is a more refined Alien, given its mom ( Engineer ) and potentially more bizarre given its dad (Trilobite ). I also think it will be much bigger. So yes, I think it has a direct link, because they come from the same place, the " small beginning". But will it, as some believe, become a queen? Personally I hope not.

I definitely agree that xenomorphs were around before the events in prometheus occured. [b]but[/b], i still think that the deacon doesn't normally exist. The engineer + trilobite(with a little bit of shaw and charlie mixed in there) is a mutated version of what would have come out the engineer if a classic facehugger. So the deacon probably won't link prometheus to alien alone, but, it will probably be along with the prometheus sequel(s?) untill the end. So the deacon won't be a queen or a king or anything but it will cause somehting significant in the alien/prometheus storyline

It is critical that the mural on LV223 depicts a deacon suggesting that it had been around before it showed up as a result of the engineer and Shaw + Holloway, or said another way part human DNA and part engineer DNA and of course xenomorphic DNA with the additional contribution of epigenetics. Epigenetics has to do with acetylation or methylation of DNA giving rise to expression. It is a secondary method of expressing DNA and the word is derived from 'around genetics'. Traits can be passed from parent to child epigenetically through the influence of life factors or environmental factors which causes either the expression through acetylation or repression of genetics traits through methylation. Its another gene related method of influencing offspring other than direct genetic transcription. I would guess that the engineers studied xenomorphic reproduction and found that the combination of human and engineer genetics in a xenomorphic substrate resulted in a default deacon expression and so depicted it on the mural. Remember they are responsible for creating us through manipulation of their own DNA by use of their goo as shown in the beginning of Prometheus. As shown in Prometheus we now know that at least one combination yeilds a deacon: the black goo mutagen ingested by a human male who breeds with a human female who produces a triobyte which naturally would result in her death but if then gestated within an engineer then a deacon results. So this is one method, but their may be other conditions that give rise to a deacon if it turns out to be a default organism caused by the combination in more than one way, human DNA and engineer DNA taking into account epigenetics as well. This is all speculation and other possibilities are equally plausible.

@ Nostromo001 Does epigenetics dictate chromasome numbers ?

No and Nova had an excellent episode on it entitled 'Ghost in your Genes' if you want more info on it. Fascinating subject describing an almost Lamarkian mechanism for handing down genetic traits in a secondary method than transcription and translation.

Holy Genetic Knowledge BatMan!

I think it's pretty clear from the way the Prometheus deacon was created that it's a hit-or-miss ad hoc experiment. The engineers don't know exactly how to create their "god", but they know that the best possible petree dish is earth. Creating life on earth was their way of creating a planet full of guinea pigs so they wouldn't have to sacrifice any of their own during the experiment.

IMHO - The mural is the prophesy of the ancient Xeno life form. The Engineers were trying to re-create the Xeno and got in over their heads. They may have ruled the Xeno long ago, but that may no longer be the case?

Important information about the Deacon imo comes from an interview with Steven Messing, Visual Art Director, from the Blu-Ray extras. - the Special Features disk, - The Furious Gods: Making Prometheus - Enhancement Pods - Xenomorphology: The Deacon Messing calls the Deacon the ultramorph. That was an early name for the creature. He said; [quote][b][i] The xenomorph in my mind was a descendant of the ultramorph (Deacon). It was the pure form of this kind of almost virus that these Engineers had created. They're a lot about sacrifice, so in my mind, there was an Engineer that sacrificed himself with this virus and it created this horrific creature, this being that was gonna eradicate planets. It was like a parasite that would destroy the planet and then make it start over and rebirth it. And they kinda worshiped it, and that's where you see this relief sculpture where it's almost a religious sculpture. As it got kind of... the virus spread and got polluted, the xenomorph was an evolutionary descendant that was not as pure. [/i][/b][/quote] Here is my view of what Messing said. - A Deacon does not grow into a xenomorph. But according to Messing, the Deacon was the ancient ancestor of the xenomorph. The xenomorph evolved from the Deacon. This would have to be a long time ago. - The Deacon does not become a queen. Deacons come from Engineers using the black goo. - The door sculpture shows a Deacon. The Engineers created Deacons long before the time of the "Prometheus" movie. - Where do the eggs come from? In the movie the Deacon is the result of a human egg being infected by black goo. If an egg is needed to create a Deacon, how could an Engineer get an egg? One possibility is that all the Engineers are both male and female (with eggs). One hint of this in the movie is that when the Deacon comes out of the Engineer, it has an umbilical cord connected to the Engineer. Meaning, the male Engineer also had female internal body parts (also called a hermaphrodite). This is speculation but that idea would answer the egg question. - What's the difference between a Deacon and a Drone? The xenomorph drone comes from an egg of a queen. The Deacon comes from a human egg or Engineer (egg?) being infected by black goo. BB ;-)

How did the Black Stuff get infected? My guess is that it got infected by an AI, and that is why the Giger Alien takes on the appearance of a machine of sorts. Giger Aliens are the product of us/humans, so maybe, in a way, WE are AI?

Bb 15 Interesting That shows that the deacon was the pure form of the xeno ? I also believed that the xeno was an ancient form that existed long before the engineers did. I believe the elder/super elder discovered them by chance and turned then into a virus with the liquid they used turn themselves into a virus to seed worlds. My problem with the xeno being worshipped as is shown on the mural in the ampule room is the ugly dude standing behind the crucified deacon / xeno. Looks a lot like the engineers in the deleted scene(ugly leper looking as if they are dying and desperate) . Almost sf if they had to worship the deacon until they finished their slavery to the elders.

Chris The deacon wil probably become something big and nasty. Something 6 - 8 engineers would be running away. If an engineer got infected with the black goo would. It turn into something like we heard screaming in the holographic replay of the running engneers. Something huge and powerful .

by oduodu; [quote][b][i] That shows that the deacon was the pure form of the xeno? [/i][/b][/quote] Yes. The Prometheus backstory seems to be; 1. The Deacon was the original creature created by the Engineers (on LV-223?) as a weapon to wipe out life on planets. 2. Long ago on a planet some Deacons evolved into the xenomorph. After that, the Engineers also used the xenomorph as a weapon. - This was the situation with the ship on LV-426. The ship carried weapons which were the xenomorphs. * Why did the Engineers have a shrine to the Deacon? Maybe to them the Deacon was the perfect organism. * [quote][b][i] The deacon will probably become something big and nasty. [/i][/b][/quote] I agree. The Deacon that comes out of the Engineer is a baby. I would expect the Deacon to grow to be at least as big as an Engineer. BB ;-)

This is where we get conflicting reports from various people on the movie... Also the fact that some much in Prometheus does not add up clearly with itself let alone the Franchise... We hear like above that one member of the movie team, states that the Deacon is a organism that predates the Xeno, and it is the Xeno that is none pure form of this Ultramorph Deacon.. So Messing describes the Xeno as being a off shoot of the Deacon, and that its contaminated and none pure mutation or evolution of the original organism or substance obtained from said Ultramorph Organism. Now Lindeloff went on to describe that the idea was always that the Xeno in Alien always had Human DNA.. Both seem to indicate that the Xeno comes from the Deacon, the first statement from Messing could imply that the Deacon in the Mural is not the one that was birthed at the end of the movie and thus not a propecy. But in either case we have problems... 1) The Eggs had appeared to had been on LV 426 for long time, and Ridley had hinted the Derelict was carrying Eggs, he has later hinted that may not be the case.... 2) The Murals well Frescos seem to show the Xeno and Egg and the Mural what resembles the traditional Xeno Face Huger more than Shaws Baby, but still not quite 100% traditional Face Huger. If the Eggs evolved from Urns on LV 426 then the Fresco must either be a prophecy, or was created after the LV 426 incident or that the Engineers know the Urns evolve to Eggs. So while i agree the Deacon is a product of Human DNA, thats why it lacks the traditional Xeno look and Hands, but has more Human Hands and Jaw, just like the New Born in Alien 3.... I cant see how the Xeno can arise from this organism.

The only answer i have is that the Engineers created the Goo to seed worlds, as it was the only way there race could seed there genetic code as they lost the way to reproduce. They seeded Earth and upgraded us over years and years.... They then fell fowl to some Organism that Face Huged and impregnated a Engineer and thus a Deacon was born and they worshipped this life cycle as it was a way that indeed Engineers could again give birth, although this is birth to a new Organism via Sacrefice as the Host/Mother does not surivibe the birth of said Child. I recon they then tried to experiment on said Organism, in a attempt to create it, but all they could do was create a different Organism, (unless original Organism that first impregnated the Engineers was the traditional Xeno). They could never achieve to create the original worshiped Deacon no matter what they did. But then via a series of events that required the reproductive organs and embryos of a Female Human was they able to create a Organism that was more related to the original one that created the first Deacon as opposed to the horrific Xeno ones they could only create. Thus this series of events that required a infected Human Sperm to impregnate a Female Egg that produced a Hybrid that was able to then create a organism closer to the original Deacon the Engineers worshiped. Thats only connection that makes sense, other than pure accidental series of events and that the Organism on Mural was something they sacrificed to either create the Xeno and/or stuff in Urns... or that the Xeno was sacrificed in a attempt to create said Deacon on Mural.. It is still my believe that the Urns contain broken down Xeno or related Ancestor or Descendants DNA... and this DNA substance was obtained via the same way the Sacrificial Engineer broke down his DNA to seed Earth.

by BigDave; [quote][b][i] Both seem to indicate that the Xeno comes from the Deacon, the first statement from Messing could imply that the Deacon in the Mural is not the one that was birthed at the end of the movie and thus not a propecy. [/i][/b][/quote] * Yes. The relief sculpture of the Deacon is of a creature that exists and has existed for a long time when the team from the Prometheus get to the shrine. [quote][b][i] 1) The Eggs had appeared to had been on LV 426 for long time, and Ridley had hinted the Derelict was carrying Eggs, he has later hinted that may not be the case.... [/i][/b][/quote] The Derelict was a carrier of weapons. And the weapons on that ship were the xenomorphs. [quote][b][i] 2) The Murals well Frescos seem to show the Xeno and Egg and the Mural what resembles the traditional Xeno Face Huger more than Shaws Baby, but still not quite 100% traditional Face Huger. [/i][/b][/quote] The wall sculpture in Prometheus includes a face hugger. When that sculpture of the Deacon was made, it was after the xenomorph had evolved from the Deacon. [quote][b][i] If the Eggs evolved from Urns on LV 426 then the Fresco must either be a prophecy, or was created after the LV 426 incident or that the Engineers know the Urns evolve to Eggs. [/i][/b][/quote] I do not think the Urns evolved into eggs. Messing said the Deacon evolved into the xenomorph. And the xenomorph queen as we know lays eggs. It was the animal, the Deacon that evolved. Once the xenomorph came from the Deacon, then the xenomorph eggs existed. [quote][b][i] So while i agree the Deacon is a product of Human DNA, thats why it lacks the traditional Xeno look and Hands, but has more Human Hands and Jaw, just like the New Born in Alien 3.... [/i][/b][/quote] The Deacon came from the Engineers. And the Engineers are a type of human. So, the Deacon has Engineer / Human DNA. ** As for when the xenomorph evolved considering what Messing said; - The Deacon must have existed for millions of years. - The Deacon was loose on a planet millions of years ago. - And in those millions of years the Deacon evolved and became the xenomoph. [quote][b][i] They then fell fowl to some Organism that Face Huged and impregnated a Engineer and thus a Deacon was born and they worshipped this life cycle as it was a way that indeed Engineers could again give birth, [/i][/b][/quote] Interesting idea. My view is that the Engineers used the black goo to experiment on their DNA to create new creatures. And then the Deacon was created from those experiments. BB ;-)

@bb-15 Yes agree with most you say, and its what i was saying.. The few things that differ, like Urns Become Eggs, is not a concept i like, its basically what Ridley said in one of his last interviews, where he said the Derelict and Juggernaught are related, and they cary biological drums of £!"$ that you drop on a World, and that on the Derelict they Evolved and thats the story there... By Evolved and his statement i was confused to see if he meant the Urns Evolved to Eggs..... or that what ever was on the Derelict is a Evolution of what the Urns contained, but that Evolution could have happened before being loaded as Eggs onto the Derelict and thus its what is made from Urns that Evolved to the Xeno and not the Urns become Eggs, which i hope not as i dont like that idea. Also the other disagrement is the Human DNA in the Deacon at the end of the movie... I feel it had more of a Human Look, i.e never had same fingers as a Xeno, because Xenos come from a pure Xeno Face Huger that implants Embryo that is Xeno but takes some traits of its host. Where as in Prometheus Shaws Baby which is a evolution of the Xeno Face Huger is a Face Huger that has a lot of Human DNA and thus implants a Embryo that has a lot of Human DNA and Xeno that then borrowed some from the Host Engineer. Hence why it had a placenta etc..

Very Interesting! Well done! I need to start drawing more aliens in my spare time... T^T

by BigDave; [quote][b][i] The few things that differ, like Urns Become Eggs, is not a concept i like, its basically what Ridley said in one of his last interviews, where he said the Derelict and Juggernaught are related, and they cary biological drums of £!"$ that you drop on a World, [/i][/b][/quote] OK, I see what you are talking about. It was a press conference that Ridley had about the relationship between "Alien" and "Prometheus". - And there are only minor connections. As Ridley put it; [quote][b][i] For all intents and purposes this is very loosely a prequel, very,... [/i][/b][/quote] [url]http://screenrant.com/prometheus-alien-connection-benk-176223/all/1/[/url] And here is Ridley's quote about the drum from the same discussion. [quote][b][i] ...there’s no real link except it explains I think who may have had these capabilities, which are dreadful weapons way beyond anything we could possibly conceive, bacteriological drums of $#!& that you can drop on a planet... [/i][/b][/quote] This is not about the xenomorph eggs imo. What Ridley did was this. He has said that the Space Jockeys carried weapons in the "Alien" DVD commentary. But in the Alien films the xenomorphs are killed by handfuls of people. The xenos by themselves are not weapons of mass destruction. In "Prometheus" Ridley showed a much more deadly weapon that the SJs / Engineers had. The black goo that could mutate creatures. [quote][b][i] Also the other disagrement is the Human DNA in the Deacon at the end of the movie... I feel it had more of a Human Look, i.e never had same fingers as a Xeno, because Xenos come from a pure Xeno Face Huger that implants Embryo that is Xeno but takes some traits of its host. Where as in Prometheus Shaws Baby which is a evolution of the Xeno Face Huger is a Face Huger that has a lot of Human DNA and thus implants a Embryo that has a lot of Human DNA and Xeno that then borrowed some from the Host Engineer. Hence why it had a placenta etc.. [/i][/b][/quote] I agree with that. - I'd only add that the other Deacons created before the time of the movie probably also come from Engineers. Engineers had a type of human DNA. So, all Deacons have human or human like DNA. BB ;-)

LV 223 is still a Mystrey to be fair.....

Yes there are Chest Busters on Juggernaught these appear to have left larger holes than a Xeno and i dont mean they are larger because Engineers are larger but larger as in compared to the Scale of the Wound to the Host....

This does not mean its the same as the Deacon at the end of the movie...

We cant be sure what kind of Chest Busters however... they could be Xenos, they could be Deacons related to the Mural... i think they was as such...  But we cant be sure apart from some Xeno DNA related Chest Buster event had happened.

The other Engineers seemed to had got infected by the Goo that was then starting to break them down like the Sacrifical Engineer.... i had explained this in a post a long while back.