Theory of motives of Engineers

7252 Views25 Replies

Forum Topic

Scribal

MemberOvomorphApril 18, 2013

As far as I can tell there are 5 main questions left unanswered in the film concerning the motives of the Engineers, which for me is the most intriguing part of the movie. 1. Why did they create humans in the first place? 2. Why did they want us to go to them? 3. What was that pyramid? 4. What happened at the pyramid that changed their plans? 5. Why did they want to return to Earth to destroy their creation? I've had various theories as I have watched the movie, but none of them seemed to pan out since they couldn't answer all five of the questions. But in watching it this last time, and after watching the Fury of the Gods DVD, I think I have a theory that at least answers cohesively all the questions. 1. Why did they create humans in the first place? I could not help but notice how the sacrificing Engineer at the beginning of the movie was wearing a monk like robe that reminded me of a Jedi robe. I get the impression that he was a priest, or at least that he was performing a religious ceremony by sacrificing himself to create humans. The way he even drinks from the cup reminds me of a religious ceremony, since many religions drink from chalices or cups a drink that makes them divine or connects them with divinity. As one who was creating an entire race of beings he had the privilege of becoming their god. 2. Why did they want us to go to them? Here is where I think it gets tricky. Our first instinct is to assume that their creation of us was benevolent and that they wanted good for us. This is because they seem to have went through so much trouble to create us, and then to teach us and guide us back to them. However, I think this is where are instincts are wrong. They did not want us simply to go to them, but they wanted us to go their pyramid. They wanted us to advance enough to find this pyramid since in our advancement we had become worthy to also take part in their religion. But we would not take part as those becoming gods, but instead as those being transformed into the highest of biological species: the Xenomorph. Many religions do not merely deal with creation, but with transformation into something greater. By our transformation into the Xenomorph we would have reached the top of the food chain and thus the alpha species in Darwinian terms. 3. What was that pyramid? This to me seems the most obvious answer. It was a temple. Likely their most holy of places. In this temple they celebrated the greatest of mysteries of their faith. I use the word mystery the way many religions use it, not as something that is unknown, but as a sacrament or a climax of the religious experience. The mural on the wall that Dr. Holloway shines his light on reveals a Xenomorph. But if you look closely this Xenomorph looks like it is being held down by a god-like figure, a god that looks much like God the Father on Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel. It would appear that the Engineers believe that the ultimate act of Godhood was not creation, nor even transformation of us into Xenomorphs, but it was their ability to bring Xenomorphs into submission. They were planning to change humans into Xenomorphs, who were the ultimate in biological evolution, so that they could then bring the Xenomorphs into submission thus showing that they had risen above evolution to become divine and separated from biological entities since they were able to subdue even the greatest of the biological entities. And thus the mural on the temple displays God holding down the Xenomorph, and that was what they were planning to do to us once we found them and were transformed. 4. What happened at the pyramid that changed their plans? I believe the exact details of what happened cannot be discerned by the movie, but obviously something unexpected happened. Somehow, they lost control of the black substance and it began to transform them. Once they were transformed they were quickly overran by the Xenomorph. This would be a total devastation for the religion of the Engineers since it reminded them that they were mortal after all. In their pride in their amazing accomplishments they had thought to highly of themselves and had come to believe they were superior and of a different quality then other lifeforms. But when they could not bring the Xenomorph into submission their religion and their faith in their Godhood vanished and they were brought down to Earth, so to speak. If you think about this, this goes right along with the theme in the movie of loss of faith. At the end, Weyland says "There is nothing." He had met his creator and when he realized the brutality and lack of care the creator had toward him he died with no faith. David, who had realized all along how shallow and uncaring his creators the humans were merely says what he already knew: "I know." Dr. Holloway seemed to have lost his faith that there was anything special to life and that is why he tells Dr. Shaw to take off her cross. And Vickers seemed to never have any faith. By contrast, the captain shows faith in Dr. Shaw when she tells him, "Trust me" at the end of the film, and he trusts her enough to sacrifice his own life. And Dr. Shaw shows that even after all that had happened she still believed. Something David is quick to point out when she puts her cross back on at the end of the film. The Engineers would be keeping with this theme in losing their faith that they are gods and that they really don't have the power and control they thought they did over the universe. This would have been devastating to them. 5. Why did they want to return to Earth to destroy their creation? This one to me was the hardest question to answer. It was the question that destroyed all my other theories except this theory. It would appear to me that since their religion had been destroyed by the realization of the fierceness and brutality of the Xenomorphs that they had no need for humanity any longer. They wanted to undo everything they had done. The experiment had failed and they wanted to contain the failure. They wouldn't want any chance that an entire race of humans would be transformed into the Xenomorphs, and so they wished to destroy humanity to be done with the threat they posed. They never really cared about us. We were merely beings to be sacrificed to their religion. And thus we had no more reason to exist. It might be asked why the rest of the race didn't destroy humanity once they found out about the failure of the religion. This of course cannot be answered but this does not itself destroy the theory. First, like many religions the leaders of the race may have wanted to keep the religious failure a secret. Or second, it may have been that this religion was a secret religion that the rest of the race was not aware of. Or third, the Engineers involved may have been high priests and the only ones knowledgable of the details of the religion. Kind of like the Masons and other religions who learn more and more as they go up the ladder. Perhaps the commoners did not fully understand the religion, so they would not have understood what had happened since they had not yet been initiated into the mysteries. Either way, to me this theory works. I am not saying that Scott or the writers even had a complete overarching theory worked out, but perhaps, like artistry is, in their creative inspiration this is how it ended up coming out. At least this is so far the best way I have found to answer the top 5 questions consistently and simply. What do you all think?

Scribal
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

Thank you for the kind words and welcome, Svanya.

Scribal
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

I do want to make one change to the details of the theory. As I said in the post, question number 5 is the hardest to answer. I think the answer I gave is still correct, they wanted to destroy us since their religion failed and they had no reason for us. However, I think that the way they were going to destroy us was going to be to transform us into Xenomoprhs. The thing that always confused me in the movie was why did they go to so much trouble contacting our ancestors and telling them to come visit their temple, and then suddenly 2000 years ago changed their mind and were now going to go to Earth to destroy it. If their religion failed, as I have proposed, they then had two problems: the need to get rid of the Black Liquid so that there would be no more Xenomorphs, and the need to destroy humanity. They could do both of these all at once if they disposed of the black stuff on earth where humanity would then be overcome by the Xenomorphs. They no longer wanted humanity to come to their temple, for they wanted the Xenomorphs to stay far away from their side of the galaxy. They had invited humanity to them, but now that they realized their error they realized they had invited death to their doorstep, since for them humanity only exists to be transformed. So with humanity comes the Xenomoprhs. Perhaps this race of Engineers are not warriors and have no warship. The only way to ensure our demise would be through their only weapon, the biological bomb of the Black Liquid. And even if they do have warships perhaps this was the quickest way and the way to also get rid of the Black Liquid. Any way that is the only way I can make heads or tails of why they would suddenly want to destroy us. I don't believe it was their original plan or they wouldn't have invited us to them in the first place. There was a quick and desperate change of plans brought on my that creature that tends to change plans: the Xenomorph.

Svanya
Group: Admin
Rank: Praetorian
View Profile

Welcome to the site, Scribal! Beautifully laid out and written post btw. It's lovely. :)

Wat

Major Noob
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

Scribal, what a great post. Many great ideas happening right now! The impression I've had all this time is that there was an element of vanity with the Engineers, much like humans, but more so and with greater consequences. That a long ago search for immortality had gone wrong, and they were then focused on reproduction, something I don't think they themselves are capable of. But they didn't get to finish the experiment, hence the last Engineers haste to get out of there and hose down the Earth with a variant of the black liquid. The idea that the Dome was a sort of sacrificial temple is more chilling, though, and so simple! And your logic about the various decorations adds up. But the Xenomorph, or, to coin a popular new phrase, the Morb, is the agent of chaos always, never to be tamed. Be fun to watch them try, though.

shambs
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

The black goo not turning its victims into xenomorphs; look at the head in the scanning table, the bodies of the rest of engineers in the pyramid and Fifield (the alternative version is not canon for now IMO). So the only way to give birth to a xeno-creature is through sex. There are women and men in our species. Then is therefore clear that this biological weapon was designed to be used in humans, with facehugger is not necessary the above process.

shambs
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

Now with full thread 1. Why did they create humans in the first place? I agree with your observations, definitely looks like a religious ceremony. However there must be another reason, perhaps related to the search for immortality, plus we don't know how is their biological reproduction. 2. Why did they want us to go to them? Undoubtedly is a complicated question...but they really want us to travel through space to discover their biological weapons facility? What if it's a warning? there may be factions, who knows. What was that pyramid? Could be a temple and xenomorphs are undoubtedly perfect biological weapons, but they are like animals, they don't build spaceships, optical fiber cable, are not capable of creating life, etc. I have no doubt that the engineers wanted to transform humanity, but I do not think it's "because the xenomorph is the last part of evolution." Unless the xenomorph have DNA extracted from an intelligent being. Engineers made humans in his image...Is there some of that in the origins of the monster? Also, I want the filmmakers invent a reason for the transformation of humanity where biological weapons can extract our DNA in order to improve the genetics of their creators, who are in search of immortality, or simply because they are at war with another faction of their own race or against another alien race that we have not seen yet. What happened at the pyramid that changed their plans? They are more intelligent and technologically advanced than humans, and I personally prefer to see something in relation to sabotage or war. Anyways is likely that Ridley wanted to establish that the weapon is "indomitable." And remember that the Black Goo no turning its victims into xenomorphs, the sexual interaction is necessary for that. Anyways I agree with the subject of immortality and also other illuminating statement is *There is nothing in the desert and no man needs nothing.* 5. Why did they want to return to Earth to destroy their creation? can be: -Because they wanted to extract our DNA in search of evolution and immortality. .The Space Jesus. -The war against another faction or race. -They wanted to raise their creators and the black goo contains the DNA of some sort of advanced extinct alien race. -They wanted to be transformed into their creators and human beings were the guinea pigs of a failed experiment. The last Engineer looks very biomechanical imo. Anyway are only our theories, the truth will be known when a sequel is released, and I hope someday happen.

shambs
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

[quote]the Engineers themselves, as we see in Prometheus 1 run in panic from them. they are killed by them, one Engineer survives their cunning. [/quote] Well, I'm not too sure about that.The bodies of Engineers that Milburn and Fifield found in the corridors of the temple have holes in the head. Furthermore the outbreak of the head from the decapitated Engineer on the scanning table. To finish with this you should watch the documentary Furios of God where the filmmakers establish that fifield was suffering the same fate as the head on the scanning table. From this point of view the Infected die, but must mate with a woman to give birth to the "Deacon" before the impending death. This reminds me of the words of David when he says: "Sometimes to create, one must first destroy." The engineers of the hologram can be running to escape from the Infecteds (again remember Fifield). BTW, I have been pondering with two conjectures about how the black goo works. One of them is based from a religious point ivsta and the other from the perspective of Jon Spaihts original script: There is an interesting point with the issue of genetic imperfections of humanity, because the black goo extracted the DNA from the Engineer for later release into the waters. The Genetics of this humanoids is superior to that of the human, so when the black goo infects a person only extracts and collects diseases and imperfections, giving rise to a monstrosity. In conclusion we are not worthy to use this technology to create life (constructive life at least). Although there is still a possibility that part of the essence from the Jon Spaihts script is preserved in the final film. In that case, the black goo creates a new life form based in the original (the engineer disintegrating). Taking into account the above, the urns containing the DNA from a life form similar to a xenomorph. Just imagine that the Engineers inject the Black goo into the veins of this ancestral xeno form. During the process the beast disintegrates and the result is the black material in the urns.

hadeze
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

luckily space has plenty of room for questions and for every answer another question pops up. i wonder again about the original message received by the Nostromo in Alien 1... was the message not (have to go back to find the answer) ... do not come here, biolgical accident ? was that message not ignored by the corporation in banking on the possibility of profit ? if so, then earthlings were not invited to visit LV-426... the Engineers had no plan to send us there to meet the xenomorphs. it was human greed (the corporation) that established contact between Earthlings and Xenomorphs ... this contact may have been something the Engineers did not want. why? the Engineers may intuite that in the meeting between man and xenomorphs man would be the loser ? furthermore, if man did contact the xenomorphs the likelihood being that Earth would become a Xenomorph domain, making the xenomorphs even stronger, more troublesome? in the larger chess game (and Earthlings are not invited players) the strengthening of the Xenomorphs in their take-over of Earth is totally anathema to the Engineers. It means that their out-of-control experiment (the xenomorphs) is simply more out of control and has taken over a breeding/gestation potential of billions of weak humans who can only loose to the rapacity of the aliens: the xenomorphs. facehugger stations with rows of gestating humans from pole to pole ? an even greater failure for the Engineers, failure to contain and failure to allow the xenomorph contation to spread. perhaps to spread even further from xenomorph Earth to other planets in the Milky Way ? the Engineers themselves, as we see in Prometheus 1 are running in panic from them. they are killed by them, one Engineer survives their cunning. is it too far fetched when considering the danger of the xenomorphs gaining more territory, infecting another world (they have infected already: LV-426 and LV-223) that the best counter-measure (for the Engineers) is to destroy what the xenomorphs need to gestate & procreate: namely Earthlings. for the xenomorphs to take Earth would be a major expansion of the threat to themselves, the Engineers. if the Engineers have Masters, the latter would not be pleased. all of this would sound a little logical if we knew why the Engineers simply did not nuke every place infected by the xenomorphs to cut their losses. Nuke LV-426 and LV-223 ... the aliens have infected these 2 worlds. Earth is not yet infected. so why the urgency to destroy Earth ? Earthlings are not directly a danger to anyone, being technologically backward and gnat thinkers. However, they perhaps see our human greed which extrapolates in believing we or Weyland Corp. can use & benefit financially from the xenomorphs? the Engineers know that they themselves have failed to reign them in ... and they have no faith in Earthlings doing any better. Perhaps seeing the messes we create here on our once very blue planet. Otherwise why destroy Earth? We are unimportant, no threat. We are also far too busy killing each other (for various reasons : culture, religion, territory, money et cetera) to be a danger to other species in the galaxy. we spend all our money on war not on understanding or science. however, the fact that the Engineers do not nuke the one species that threatens them (namely the xenomorphs) to kingdom do not come suggest there is something special in their relationship ? Earthlings, on the other hand, do not merit this protection or esteeem and are expendable. in order for the fire not to spread some of the forest around has to be sacrified or burnt. that would be us ... no great loss to anyone at the moment. all conjecture. there are simply too many unanswered aspects to the alien story. we shall see what RS decides.

shambs
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

But I completely agree that humanity may be insignificant, or guinea pigs as much.

malex234
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

@Scribal: Great theory. I along with many others have spent a great deal of time trying to formulate coherent answers to the questions you raised or to variations of those questions. While I agree with much of what you have written, there are certain nagging points which have kept me from coming up with a consistent theory. 1. Why did they create humans in the first place? There are several possibilities that have some basis in what we have seen so far: Imagine a group of Engineers sitting around discussing what to do with their newly discovered, stolen, conjured or otherwise obtained black goo: (a)Hey if we make a being in our own image doesn't that make us Gods? (b)Hey wouldn't it be great to have lab rats that are genetically identical to us for our space mad scientist lab? (c)Humans make great xeno incubators or fodder. (d)Let's do it just because we can. (e)We were trying to make a genetically superior organism, but we keep ending up with these minature clones of ourselves. Personally I like Scribal's theory that the Engineers were seeking to make Gods of themselves by creating man. The Sacrificial Engineer may have achieved a god-like status among his peers as a result of his actions and his story may have been passed on to the early humans who worshiped him as a deity. 2. Why did they want us to go to them? Shaw and Holloway interpret the cave drawings as an invitation. But those drawings are thousands of years old and presumably made by primative man who lacked the capability of intergalactic space travel. To assume that these drawings would someday in the far distant future be discovered and lead to a visit doesn't make much sense. I would suggest that these are markers for the Engineers own benefit to show when and where their visitations to earth occurred. If the Engineers wanted humans on LV 223, all they had to do was take a few back with them. I would point out that the mural on LV 223 shows humanoid beings in the grips of facehuggers, so perhaps the Engineers did take a few humans on a one way trip. In that case, it seems just as likely those cave paintings should be interpreted as warnings "stay away from those giant star men". Another point to ponder, who to say that the Engineers who orginally visited earth are the same ones or have the same beliefs as the ones on LV 223 by the time of the Prometheus voyage. It is possible that the Engineers were originally benevolent towards man, but changed their attitudes with the passing eons. 3. What was that pyramid? I agree that the "big head room" is some type of temple or shrine. There were several other pyramids or domes that were not visited, so I don't see how we can make any definite statements about where the Engineers wanted humans to go, if they wanted humans to come to LV 223 in the first place. The other nagging question in my mind is do the Engineers worship the xeno as some kind of primal nature god (chaos for example), or is it merely one of their creations, though one they seem to prize. . 4. What happened at the pyramid that changed their plans? It seems clear that the Engineers fell victim to the black goo. The question in my mind is whether it was an accident, or whether one of the Engineers may have sabotaged the facility and thus spared mankind from destruction. 5. Why did they want to return to Earth to destroy their creation? I beleive that either humans did something that totally offended the Engineers (Space Jesus for example - though I hope that's not the answer) or the Engineers had a change of heart towards their creations. As others have noted there could be factions of Engineers, perhaps some who love humans and some who hate us. I think the LV 223 guys hated us with a passion. Why else would they want to use such a horrible method of wiping out the human race. It is possible that some Engineer sympathetic to humans stopped them 2000 years ago. It would be the ultimate irony if our savior was that last Engineer who Weyland so rudely awakened.

hadeze
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

Well, I'm not too sure about that.The bodies of Engineers that Milburn and Fifield found in the corridors of the temple have holes in the head. (Shambhala) not from the visual.. the stack of bodies of dead Engineers piled against the wall in the corridor died from their chest being opened from the inside. thus, all of them had facehuggers and died thru the gestation of the morphs... since there is a pile of them... they were thrown there to rot or there were a lot of face huggers in the air and the whole group was trapped together... i would opt for the former though since even with a facehugger on the Engineers face they would not all oscillate to congregate in one area. they were killed separately and thrown there but by whom? normally the morphs do not clean up after themselves. anyway, their chest wounds indicate they died from being attacked by facehuggers.

Scribal
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

Good points hadeze. The chests bursting open is what leads me to believe that there were Xenomorphs who killed the Engineers. A good point I thought malex234 made was that perhaps the Engineers had brought a few of our primitive ancestors with them. Maybe these were supposed to be preparations for the real event. But maybe the real sacrifice would come when the more evolved humans actually found them. Many religions have the idea of worthy sacrifice. It may be that the humans would have been most ready to be transformed into the ultimate species when they had themselves become at the peak of their evolution. One other possible explanation would be that the paintings on the walls were not invitations but were explanations. They were telling the families of the humans where the Engineers were taking them the humans which they took. Which means the answer to question #2 would be that they never invited them. In taking some of the humans for sacrifice the Xenomorhps grew out of control and overtook the Engineers. Thus, the Engineers decided to get rid of the Black Goo and the Humans all at once by infecting Earth. Or maybe this would be their final religious act. All very interesting, and I think coherent. Thank you all for your input.

hadeze
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

in the Big Head room, the Big Head is surrounded by cylinders of goo. unless mistaken, this room is in the Pyramid, not the Engineer vessel. Therefore, if the sole remaining Engineer wanted to "get rid of all the goo" then he failed twice: his vessel fell, more or less intact, back on LV-223, with its goo intact & secondly the goo in the Big Head room never left. makes sense tho to head for Earth to finish the job (infection at large?) this was his original mission, was it not this the plan before the morph outbreak? a propos, where did the morphs go ? died of hunger after 2000 yrs ? the science crew of the Prometheus encounters no adult morphs ... only 1 at the end ... and is he aboard the vessel heading for the Engineer homeland, unbeknownst to Dr. Shaw & David? the pile of dead Engineers against the wall or door speaks volumes. they could not all have died there together from the facehuggers. once a facehugger has one the blinded Engineer would not necessarily run to the same place as the others. they were not killed at the same time. was this a door everyone was trying to open, to escape from the outbreak? the morphs did not pile them there - the morphs never much clean up after they eat. died together or were piled there? by whom? the vessel full of goo cylinders may well be to infect all Earthlings, but how many of these cylinders does one need? they seem over-stocked. the goo as we see at the very beginning of P1 first dissolves the person. the sacrificed engineer literally dissolved into the waterfall. was this the plan to infect and dissolve every human body? or were humans to be transformed like FiField and Holloway ? latter became a zombie, was zomnified. the former , a monster. each person transforms differently having taken the goo. women that are infected by an infected male (Dr. Shaw & Holloway) gestate a squid which in turn can gestate a morph in another species (this time an Engineer). the fact that Engineers gestate morphs could also be a problem with their mythology or religion. they are masters, not gestation vehicles for morphs. would be like humans giving birth to tasmanian tigers - not something to tell our kids or write home about. the murials in the Big Room show a morph as a christ figure. something special about them to the Engineers? the Engineers however cannot control them. their creation threatens its creator ? just like David 8, a creature of man, threatens man unless guided by a good men, not by a Weyland. the Engineer shortens David 8 at the shoulders and smashes Weyland head with David's head. Distain, disgust towards humans. We are lesser than the morphs for the Engineers - like guinea pigs. we exist only to gestate better morphs ? if the Engineers revere morphs to the point of depicting them as a christ figure, their plan/belief/religion is indeed very dark. this is like devil-worship. these morphs are demented slimey killing machines. and the Engineers find them worthy of depiction in an place of worship ? this is in the Big Head room. would be like catholics in (bankrupt) Rome with murials of the devil in colour or 3D. if the Engineers somehow value morphs in this special way we are indeed in trouble, expendable, soon to disappear as have millions of species before us. Only RS & the next script writer know for sure ... great suspence.

Scribal
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

@nostromo I'm not sure it is as common sense as you say it is but it is an interesting theory. I have to even admit to hoping that it is the correct one because to me it would open up the possibility in Prom 2 of Dr. Shaw's faith being verified since she will eventually find the benevolent and caring creators. It would also help explaining who piled up the bodies since this is not something the Xenomorph would have done. But this would still leave many questions unanswered. Like what happened to this war of factions? It just suddenly stopped 2000 years ago? Wouldn't this have been an ongoing thing? In 2000 years they never returned to look for life signs or to get their ships or to destroy humanity. Whatever happened seemed to have come to a brief stop suddenly. A war of factions would be hard to fit in to that fact.

nostromo001
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

Remember when extrapolating from the unknown that it is only possible to accurately conjecture a little ways when in the dark. After that we fall into the danger of over reaching and wind up creating a theory that is without much support, and that therefore is likely either untrue or not very true. Having said that, I believe it is only possible to make one or two hypothetical steps into the unkown with a high chance of probability. In this context, the simplest explanation is most likely true: Occam's razor. Regarding the question why did they want to destroy us, I point out the two faction evidence gained from the Alien CM game. It was a theory bouncing around that I didn't give much credence to until that game came out. The easter egg gives strong support to inside information suggesting two warring engineer factions: One who created us and another who decided we were not worth saving probably due to the crucifixion of their emissary. This is the space Jesus theory and the clue of 2000 years ago strongly supports it. Everything I have stated here is just common sense and it is based upon pieces of information available in the movie or that new game that came out since Prometheus was made.

[img]http://0.tqn.com/d/chemistry/1/0/E/1/1/chemistry-glassware.jpg[/img]

shambs
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

Recently I have exposed a thought about the theory of the Space Jesus in the thread [url=http://www.prometheus2-movie.com/community/forums/topic/12439#124591]The equal opposite of life is death![/url]: The xenomorphs could be the opposite version of an Engineer, and at the same time this thought can make the mural less ambiguous; adding more sense. [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/tumblr_mbdxaprhm91qd09yko1_500_zpsf50f0c47.jpg[/img] This image seems an altar in reference to a creator of death and in the beginning we have the creator of life and then we find this counterpart like a demon, or more like the other side of the coin, because the basis of this is the black goo, the tool of the life. These thoughts can make sense of much of the mysteries and vague details of the movie, but more importantly: the xenomorph has meaning as part of a metaphor about life and death or even like the forbidden fruit. The mortals are imperfect and now they want to get their hands on the wheels of life unleashing chaos and death. It's almost as if the xenomorph is a personification of the worst of humanity. Maybe the invitation is a test for us to understand the purpose of our origins and so maybe in the future we can achieve immortality, but; what if that mural with Xenomorph / Deacon is a representation of our destiny? [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/fiery-cross_1920x1080_74506_zpsa617908c.jpg[/img] Now my apologies if some of the members here are religious people, but you remember that this is just a movie and these are our theories about it. Now back to the thread; maybe we torture and kill an engineer in the past (maybe 2000 years ago?) and the only thing that this wise wanted was save us from death, teach us how to achieve immortality. But unfortunately we crucify him and now this is our destiny for that. [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/prometheusalienmuralcrop_zps0990c06a.jpg[/img] The mural has a form of a xeno-creature in crucified position but IMO that Xenomorph in the mural is actually the humanity because the black goo will extract the impurities and imperfections of our DNA to transform us into these monstrosities. We crucify an engineer from the past, but now we will suffer a fate far worse. Probably the reason for these visits is to transfer knowledge, perhaps to prepare us to go to LV-223, because it was supposed that in that moon was the final test; our jump to become creators of life as the Engineers. [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/tumblr_m60k84VjJw1qc8i5v_zps76be8dda.jpg[/img] But then something went terribly wrong, causing our creators change their opinion about our fate and now there is only death in LV-223. The Engineers are biologically immortal, and his perfect DNA is the only genetic material necessary to create life. Then they can make the decision to make a sacrifice to plant life on planets. The humans are mortal, therefore they are not prepared to use the tool life. The legacy of God prevails with this sacrifice because his creation is made in his image. Weyland just try to imitate life with a synthetic demonstrating that humanity has a long way to go in its evolution to reach the perfection of the creators.

hadeze
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

keep on the narrow path we must. but .. what happened to all those aliens born thru the facehuggers, referring to the pile of Engineers, thrown against the wall? died of hunger ? why the hiatus of 2000 yrs ? nothing has happened ? surely technology and history changed in that length of time. why was there no follow-up to the crash on LV-426, not to the inactivity on LV-223. The Engineers surely have a way of communicating with their HQ. why are there other Engineer vessels on LV-223? did the outbreak of 2000 yrs ago kill all of them. was LV-223 an important base?

hadeze
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

yes, the hoard of aliens born from the killed Engineers, thrown hodgepodge against the wall, where are they? died of hunger ? after 2000 yrs ? why are there multiple other Engineer vessels on LV-223. was LV-223 an important base of operation? a gestation centre? was the Engineer personnel of all these multiple vessels also all killed in the alien outbreak? did the Engineer vessel of LV-426 try to escape from the outbreak on LV-223, but the Space Jockey/pilot had already been infected? he thus carried the alien with him to LV-426 and died after landing. Weyland Corp. somehow gets wind of a mystery on LV-426 . Weyland places a group of unsuspecting colonists on LV-426 to get information ? they are all killed (except the little girl) so Weyland ( much impressed by these efficient killing morphs) orders one of his passing feighters (the Nostromo) to bring back an alien for further study and/or development by Weyland Corp. on Earth ?

nostromo001
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

Scribal- That is a good question - what happened such that they never came back to follow through with the plan 2000 years ago, but I suspect that the whole back story was never well concieved by RS. I think they had some nebulous ideas involving the emmisary who got crucified which is why they threw in the idea of 2000 years ago - just to hint at a connection, not a well thought out back story. An interesting result of the warring factions idea is that the ones who sent the emissary - the pro-christian ones, were the ones who decided we did not deserve to live, so those are the ones who Shaw are aligned with as a Christian! The major thing that the warring factions notion accomplishes is it explains why the engineers made us and then wanted to destroy us. Thats all it does, but the details would have to wait until Paradise, or P2. Btw, I got the idea of the engineers sending an emissary from interviews with RS in the Furious Gods documentary. He was discussing why the engineers would want to destroy us and he was the one who mentioned them sending their 'emissary 2000 years ago and guess what, we crucified him' - his words, not mine. Watch the documentary and it is very long like 3.5 hours! But it is in there.

[img]http://0.tqn.com/d/chemistry/1/0/E/1/1/chemistry-glassware.jpg[/img]

shambs
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

[quote]not from the visual.. the stack of bodies of dead Engineers piled against the wall in the corridor died from their chest being opened from the inside. thus, all of them had facehuggers and died thru the gestation of the morphs...[/quote]from hadeze Well, the infection also can explode from the inside. [quote]but .. what happened to all those aliens born thru the facehuggers, referring to the pile of Engineers, thrown against the wall? died of hunger ?[/quote]from hadeze It's hard to say because we do not know for sure if these engineers were victims of chestburster. In fact there is no evidence of a xenomorph on LV-223. It's like asking which came first ... the chicken or the egg ... on LV-426's eggs could be extracted from a planet after its inhabitants have been infected with the black goo, like a harvest. Anyway Ridley Scott only gives us a clue to the origin and purpose of the Xenomorph, but this biological weapon may be a new variant of the classic or a related species and parallel to the original. [quote]why are there multiple other Engineer vessels on LV-223. was LV-223 an important base of operation? a gestation centre? was the Engineer personnel of all these multiple vessels also all killed in the alien outbreak?[/quote]from hadeze You can call it temple or whatever, is a military installation with a fleet of Carriers to transport the weapon to a target. The Space Jockey from LV-426 was not infected. Again, the black goo may be the beginning of all or a parallel variant. The fate of that ship can support a little idea of war. Also In the extra stuff mentioned that Weyland discovered the LV-426 signal. With respect to the other, probably. However I'm not sure if all franchise issues will be explained in a sequel, plus this movie raises a new perspective and is likely to continue in a direction parallel to the franchise. But as Nostromo said Ridley Scott seems to have vague ideas of the past, and probably the sequel did not explain in detail all those questions.

shambs
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

The deacon in crucified position seems to be a symbol of our fate after that mankind killed an Emissary, a metamorphosis planned for humanity for their sins.

malex234
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

@ Shambala: Thanks for posting the image of the mural This is the most detailed one that I have seen, particularly the images towards the bottom always seem to be in the dark or have people standing in front of them. I enlarged the image to 5x original and it looks like the crucifed xeno is standing upon the head of another creature. If you look closely just blelow the xeno is what could be the face of satan -horns and all But that is hard to say for sure with all the swirls in the mural it's difficult to say just exactly what anything represents. . @Scribal. Looking at the mural in detail, I see nothing that makes me think there is anything representative of a benevolent god here. Something may indeed be holding the crucified xeno down, but it does not coincide with any image of God I have in mind. All that being said, and whether you see what I see in the mural or not, the whole notion of God, Satan, Jesus, angels and demons is definitely there for the taking in Promethues. I recall my initial thoughts after seeing the film was that it had something to do with Jesus's crucifixtion. However, I later saw an interview with Ridley where he stated that the "Jesus as an Engineer" concept was considered, but they decided it was "too on the nose." I interpreted that comment to mean that they considered making the reason the Engineers wanted to destroy us was that we killed off their emissary, but decided not to go that way. Ridley also made some comments to the effect that the reason for the Engineers changing their minds about us had to do with the Roman Empire and humans "running around with swords and shields." So, was Ridley trying to back away from Space Jesus or is he trying to trick us into not looking at the simplest and most obvious explanation of what was going on?` I honestly don't know the answer. One other comment from Ridley that bears consideration is that he called the Engineers "Dark Angels" which is a direct reference to Lucifer and the Fallen Angels from Paradise Lost. So, does this mean that Prometheus and its sequels are going to be "Paradise Lost in Space?" Again, I don't know the answer, and I don't think Ridley would or did serve us up a note for note rendition. I don't have time this morning to go into any further detail on these thoughts, but if anyone finds this notion appealing or if you think I've gone off the deep end please feel free to put in your two cent's worth.

hadeze
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

Embarrassing …. When a Ph.d. biologist nonchalantly takes off his helmet in a unknown atmosphere. we lose interest in his/her rational thinking. How foolish for all to follow ? Hey, instruments say air breathable, so .. let’s take our helmets off .. . Ever heard of air-carried diseases on Earth hospitals ? Ever heard of being cautious ? These are scientists ? Then, when an upright snake looks like a cobra, hisses & moves back & forth like a cobra … you then play here nice kitty with it? This script makes science characters types into full-blown nincompoops. Weyland Corp’s hand-picked scientists who sign up for 4 yrs, 2 each way, not knowing what they were expected to do ? they were there for the money ? not very inquisitive for scientists who typically think skeptically and doubt everything. The Prometheus crew behaves like junior high school kids. no one mentions in an aside that under light-speed travel to the next sun would take, at the very, very best, hundreds of thousands of years. And material matter cannot travel at light speed - according today's science. This text co-written by Spaiths(sic) & sophisticated by Lindelof ? Let’s admit it: whereas Alien 1 had real characters who we understood and acted real, even if we did not like every one of them … in Prometheus we were never able to identify with any of them - except David 8. He made sense. Holloway? A loser. Dr. Shaw, ineffectual from the word go. She says, she has no proof that Earth cave drawings are an invitation, she prefers to “believe” they are an invitation. For a scientist of utter such nonsense means throwing science’s efforts of the past 200-300 years out the window. A scientist brings us back to believing first vs. facts & proof second ? Holloway is infected by David 8 ( and looking in mirror sees his eye infection) yet he tells no one, not his sexual partner. No doctor on board ? Childish behaviour again and again. The star maps found in Earth caves - invitation to visit ? if 35T yrs have passed the stars (= suns that is) would no longer show the nightly configuration of yore. Dr. Shaw talks about a “system”, but she should talk about 7 star systems, since planets do not shine. Anyway, 7 sun systems would not show the same distribution (as the caves drawings) after a passage of time. E.g., our sun orbits at 560,000 m p Hr in the Milky Way ... as all other suns, some whipping along at 900T mpH. Nothing stays in place. Pre-Greeks astronomers knew that already. Mini conclusion: a script depicting top-notch scientists should have them talk (& think?) using today’s science. Some people in the audience read more than news about Brat Pitt and his divorce from a woman named Alliston? - not sure if I got the latter right. Wie auch immer, embarrassing when RS & his 2 co-writers choose ( and to be polite) simplicity over clarity and rationality. RS might hire a few post-grad physics students to add a footnote here & there in the next P script. we would at least be able to recognize that RS & writer(s) made a sincere effort to be clear & coherent. Instead throughout P1 we have smoke and mirrors with a 15 sec cameo apparition of an alien.

nostromo001
Group: Member
Rank: Ovomorph
View Profile

hadeze- I couldn't agree with you more about the lack of quality of the science in this movie! I am a trained PhD Chemist and I cringed over and over while watching this movie especially because otherwise I love Prometheus. When Dr Shaw made that statement that it is what she chooses to believe! I just about fell out of my chair. That is not science and I really really wish RS would hire scientists as advisors so he wouldn't make so many scientific errors in his movies. We scientists need jobs too! Luke Scott, Ridley's son also made a glaring scientific mistake in his short SF movie 'Loom': The scientist protagonist used a micropipetter without first attaching a disposable tip!!!! No scientist in his right mind would contaminate a micropipetter like that. A rookie student would, but not a trained biologist! Scott Free productions hire us scientists so we will have jobs and your movies will be scientifically accurate!

[img]http://0.tqn.com/d/chemistry/1/0/E/1/1/chemistry-glassware.jpg[/img]