Prometheus Fire and Stone

Outstanding BigD!

I'm sure there will soon be loads of posts discussing and debating this ;)

Yeah read it and its a bit disapointing lol... not in content just length never took long at all as there is only about 20 pages.... got wait for next months installment when i get Fire and Stone 2 and Aliens part 1...  decent comic just maybe wanted more pages for my £2.50 lol

SPOILER ALERT....

Well from the images i saw on the internet early on, i can say i miss read them lol in my defence they did not show the full page, so with the Ant thingys, they are not some giant Ant creature but zoomed in shot of Ants, but Ants mutated by the goo that are attacking a out numbering normal ants... well white ones..

This shows the Goos effects, but the question is where do the Orginal Ants come from or are they native like the Worms was or like them could they had been brought to LV 223 at some point in past..

Right  this comic if we take it as Canon.. thats if it will be, once Prometheus part 2 is out..

it first shows us that Weyland Company sent out a Probe that reached LV 223 in 2090 some near 3 years 8 months odd before Prometheus landed on LV 223. We see as soon as the Probe got close it suffered some malfunction and crashed and we see a Engineer crush it under his feet.. yep either the Probe is small as in the size of a Large Gamer PC or our Engineers is Larger than the one in Prometheus.  This shows Engineer was walking on LV 223 in 2090, same one as the Last Engineer or another? Also does not need Mask to breath outside just as the shots from scenes that never made it to DVD showed.

Anway we see a Weyland Yutani Mission to LV 223 set some 40 years after the destruction of Hadleys Hope in 2179, its purpose to find out what became of Prometheus and Salvage what ever it can from any wreckage...

Does this mean, we wont see a rescue mission to LV 223 in Prometheus? Maybe it does not because 1) maybe the comic wont be true cannon and 2)  the company cover stuff up, such as this comic the crew mention that Hadleys Hope Outpost suffered some Nuclear Meltdown and so the crew know nothing about the Mission the Sulaco in 2179 and how the Settlement was truely destroyed and for what purpose.

Bear in mind i have not plaid the Alien Colonal Marines Game and i am not 100% familar with its story and plot and time line etc.

Anyway the crew of this Salvage mission are supprised ti find a jungle on Lv 223 as the Planetoid is supposed to be Baron..... this jungle is only growing right around the entrance to the Temple the Crew of Prometheus Visited...

The ship seems to also have on its mother ship Androids that are well more like I-Robot Androids, i.e not Human Looking.. in 2219 have they done away with them? Maybe not because we see on the Mother ship at the start of the comic well near it, we see a Humanoid named Eldon who is writting Hellow on a Weyland Yutani Poster over and over and also on another introducing a  David 88 poster. He is in the Cargo Hold where the other Robots are.

Anyway the crew find it hard to read metal signals in search of any wreckages, they read Metal all around them, they discover some Goo in a Pond of the stuff and determine the Stuff contains like Genetic Code of well Everything and it Mutates constantly in some state of Choas.

The also find some Organism that swings in the trees like a Alien monkey only it is just made of Bone and Muscle it has no Skin, and looks a bit Predator Hound looking in Face.  This Organism does not attack the crew but what is it how did it come to be, how did the Jungle come to be?  And if its via the Goo is it from after Prometheus? As the Prologue seems to indicate that after Shaw and David go off in search of answers they are not aware that events of there mission have led to something that could lead to death of mankind.

We see the crew find some like Alien Bovine like creatures that again have similar look to the Alien monkey and again they dont have Xeno traits but look a bit well Predator Hound also. These creatures are all dead as if it was some kind of hunting ground and show signs of Claw Marks and Burns.

Indication something related to the Xeno may be to blame? 

We then see the crew find some Ants, both well White Alien looking ones and then some black ones that are larger and have Xeno look to them the head has same Carapace look as the 1986 Aliens.  The Scientist who study the ants tell us the Black Ants are killing the white ones even though they are out numbered and thus a sign these Ants got infected with the Goo and have become well Evolved and Xenofied... but then if the Goo created the Jungle and other now native none Xeno DNA Organisms then how is this so?

The crew then stubble on a stronger metal signal and beyond some deep overgrown part of the Jungle they find a Ship from Hadleys hope that must have been some of the colonists must have escaped or tried to but not got far, like the Space Jockey did not either.

The crew cut away the alien vegetation to reveal the Ship...

Could this be a sign that the Jungle did not grow untill after the Ship landed sometime before 2179 mission to LV 426 by the Sulaco?

Finally the crew are about to try and open the door to the ship but whats behind it... well we get to see what is behind it but the crew dont till next installment.

Looking at the clues from other images for the comics and cover for Part 2 we have to assume the Crew or some run off from what they encounter in the Hadley Hop Escape Vessel only to run into the Temple.

I say this because we have a shot of a crew member in front of the Mural from Prometheus and Logic says they would not go to the Temple if they got to their ships first not after finding what they do on the Hadleys Hope Ship....

We also see a Engineer walking through the Jungle and comming across a dead Human Skelleton that has been Chest Busted, and its Space Suit is that similar to what Ripley wore at the end of Alien and a bit like what the other crew wore in the Movie...

The crew of the Salvage mission are wearing the same kinds of suits as Prometheus crewm to me just as Ridley used reasons why Prometheus Tech was more advanced than the Nostramo crews was well one is high class high calibre missions the others well Space Truckers...

This shows me the chest busted dead human must most likely had been from the Ship that escaped LV 426 from Hadleys Hope..

The other question.... which we may find out in Part 2 of Fire and Stone is.... well this Engineer is not the last one in Prometheus as well he gave birth to the Deacon.. nope this is another Engineer on LV 223 some 125 years after the events of Prometheus.

What can i make out from this comic if using it as Canon and to answer Prometheus Questions...

WARNING WILL SPOIL COMIC IF NOT READ YET!!!

I wont use clues from cover and artwork of things yet to happen in the series... or Aliens books yet..

But does seem maybe the Engineers or some was aware of Mankind or some other race snooping around the LV 223 outpost some time before Prometheus set down...

So questions are, was the Engineer in Prometheus alone? Was he in stasis for 2000 years if so well some other Engineers was freely walking around LV 223 some near 45 months before Prometheus set down.... Also.. that clues from Fire and Stone 2 could show us there are Engineers left on LV 223 some 125 years after Prometheus... there all along? or did they come after the events of Prometheus and Prometheus part 2 we are unsure of.

But what i can make out is that indeed somehow maybe a ship that managed to escape from Hadleys Hope, landed or crash landed near the Temple some 85 years after Prometheus wreckage would landed on LV 223.  And that maybe this ship had some plant life and maybe other life on it apart from Human... or Xeno and some how the Goo or some other kind of Goo i.e stuff not containing Xeno DNA.. or maybe one element of the Urns i.e assumes the Bio Weapon has more than one component.... has some how effected the Plants, so that they end up evolving and spreading out to form a jungle... thats because i assume the Goo, and i mean maybe more than one component is a accelerant that causes some Plant Life that is not native to Baron LV 223 to mutate and grow and grow out of controll, i also assume maybe some lifeforms carried from Hadleys Hope have evolved i.e the ants, and what ever the Monkey and Bovine creatures are...

I assume they was not on LV 223 at the time of Prometheus, and surely Weyland would have picked up life signs at the time of Alien and Aliens if such lifeforms existed back then... so where did they come from.. and why do they have a Alien yet not Xeno apearence?  Why do they have a similar look to Organisms that we see in Predators Comics off past and present?

Could the Predators had landed on LV 223 between Prometheus part 2 and Aliens? or after Aliens? I think the Fire and Stone comics could be going that route... lol wonder if they will touch upon how come the Urns have different markings to the Engineers Tech and that the Urns writtings are well very Predator!

The Comic seems to show that the Goo can be very advanced, but why does it only pass Xeno Traits on some things? is my theory not correct or wide off the mark? My theory basically emulates what we see on screen, and from Prometheus early story boards and concepts and Spaights draft... but i think Fox are trying to make the Goo more Advanced as in this stuff is the basis for ALL LIFE in the Galaxy.

But yes we do get some clues that indeed some element of the Goo passes on again some Xeno traits onto its target i.e Mutant Xeno Ants.

Finally, looking at some images that cropped up and some in the past from the Comic Books seems to show me that some how, a Android is infected with the Goo and well becomes more like a Engineer. This is of course unless Elden is not a Android!

SPOILER... Elden is Android lol so Fire and Stone 2 and 3 sugest..

Been a while since I was on here and don't read comics, but could there have been plants in the crew quarters of the Prometheus that with time and exposed to the goo become the jungle on LV 223 ?  Possibly surviving in the wreckage of the Prometheus as it fell from the sky ? Been too long for me to remember seeing any in the movie, so just throwing the idea out there ?

BIGDAVE - Wow! That is a great deal of information - and it raises so many questions which you've addressed quite nicely! I can't wait to see how this new set of revelations pans out. Thank you so very much for sharing this information with us! :)

dave so far i am with you

only thing i might possibly add is that the reason why weyland yutani wanted a xeno on earth perhaps was because they knew the goo was the virus that came from making a xeno drink the substance that the engineer drank at the start of prometheus. perhaps they needed a xeno to reverse engineer the goo  so that they might break it up into its seperate xeno and original cake like substance.

they could then use that to start their own dna experiments.

thereby starting to scratch the surface of their bio tech.

that could explain why they didnt destroy the lv 223 installation because they had already gotteneverything there they could they simply needed a xeno .

combine terraforming with the ability to seed other worlds with all kinds dna experiments.

you could end up having many installations around your solar system............

something the engineers / elders wouldnt to be too pleased about.

as for the canon - that energy sapping concocction called canon LOL

well

i dunno.......

Yes that is a good point, you see all through the series we see Weyland Yutani want the Xeno for its bio weapons division but how many times do they get burnt before they give up, to what end and what risks... They seem to cover up a lot of their potential exploits and failures to capture a Xeno...

Why, is it worth that hassle... nope as well its not really a good Bio Weapon is it, i mean the company can produce Synthetics like David, why stop there they could easily create a larger Android like say 7ft or 8ft that is faster than any Humand, smarter etc i.e the ULTIMATE TERMINATOR but why bother with the Xeno.. it makes no sense not in light of what other Tech Weyland Yutani has...

But Prometheus offered us the Goo, now this really is a Treasure to be had, and especially now they seem to be pointing to it being more than simply a end result of some other substance that is a fast way of breaking down a Organisms DNA to then be spread onto other lifeforms and creating a Evolutionary Hybrid.

Now they seem to incline the Goo or at very least part of it is a substance that is LIFE in itself...

This would be a usefull tool to have.... so yes maybe if the Xeno or its orgins holds the key to this Substance that can create life, then yes that would give better reason for ther endless persuit of the Xeno.

If this comic is Canon, or not but we try to fit it in its own Canon based on events of Prometheus and Alien then either way there are a number of time frame problems and inconsistencies.

Do we assume that the Engineers knew we sent probes? do they know about the events of Prometheus and Alien and Aliens, because well the comic shows a Engineer is still on LV223 125 years after the events of Prometheus, why does he not at any point try to destroy us, unless he has not long arrived on LV 223 after the events of Aliens. Well between 2179 and 2219.

And surely Weyland could not have missed a crashed Earth ship that escaped from Hadleys Hope before the U.S.S. Sulaco arived on LV 426... unless the U.S.S. Sulaco had extra crew hidden that some how obtained Face Hugers from the crashed ship on LV 223 that contained the Refugee Colonists from Hadleys Hope...

Then why was Ripley the last chance in Alien 3 to get hold of the Lifeform, and why clone Ripley in Alien Resurection, when LV 223 has all they could need.

If the comic is canon, then LV 223 and LV 426 must be destroyed by time of 2380...

But we can not assume the Canon is direct canon, because it will losely start off with a rescue ship that searches for what became of Promeheus and try and get the answers that Prometheus went to LV 223 for in first place, but they come across horrors left not only behind on LV 223 after the events of Prometheus but also deal with more Horrors that was aboard the Crashed Escape Ship from Hadleys hope.

Fire and Stone centres around 3 ships that go to LV 223 in 2219... and each ship and its remaining crew branch off on there own adventure one that goes the route to tie in  Predators... one that ties in Aliens more and another around the LV 223 complex and they all come about and join in a AVP Fire and Stone... this could be so that the one off shoot that follows which ever crew and ship deal with LV 223 can be considered its own Canon maybe?

Or maybe they all tie in the Engineers, Predators and Xeno Franchises..

Thus i dont think we can consider the events to be Canon to Prometheus, just alternative sequel universe to the events of Prometheus and Alien..

But the series could show us clues in the Xeno, Engineer and Goo and LV 223/426 connections..

Outstanding observation and synopsis BigDave, incredible post once again.

Your ability to detangle all these complex relationships from all aspects of the entire Alien and Prometheus universe never ceases to amaze me.

We are all concerned about how these other artistic developments could shape or affect cannon. I for one think it dilutes future endeavors as it would relate to a sequel for Prometheus. Having stated this I also believe that these are works of art and should be treated as such. We should not come to hasty conclusions either way about what may or may not be relevant when it comes to the artistry representing Alien and Prometheus.

Years ago I studied quite a bit of old renaissance masters works. I assure you all what we have been shown in a lot of these movies could never be achieved in any other medium of expression. This is precisely why it is important to appreciate these movies as the master pieces that they are because what has been rendered could not be produced in any other way. Thus we should have an open mind and remain as objective as possible.

When historians, anthropologists, sociologists, and archaeologists refer back to the earliest forms of primitive human tool making they most often show us works of the Paleolithic era of stone tool making. We come to believe that humans progressed as their intellects fostered new and more useful tools with which to build the first civilizations.

I do know this for sure one of the most important tools that humans possessed long before any type of stone tool was the ability to try and predict eventual outcomes. This may seem as an innate ability but is not as we see the problems that can happen with this type of thinking as it relates to defects in memory.

We are all trying to predict what may happen in the future because for one thing it is such an essential part of our entire daily lives. We are all constantly trying to think about what might happen next in context of how much training and education we possess.

In this particular case it would be unwise to try and project too much because it may be just pure speculation and assumption that we are left with.   

We should focus on the facts. The goo is some kind of nano based complex technology. This we can all be assured of. Where we may find problems with what we can extrapolate from this begins to break down at what we think of as the Higgs particle. Supposedly these Higgs particles are indivisible in of themselves and form all the other subatomic particles we will ever find. The Higgs particles forms fields and in these interactions create all of the fundamental forces in physics. Please do not run any of this by
string theorist you will never hear the end of it LOL.

So having stated this it would be prudent to say at the least that as we go to manipulate the Higgs field we will be able to make a lot of new sub atomic based machines as well as biological processes that interact with them that we do not see in nature today as we understand physics and biology.

For the most part we are just manipulating fundamental forces at the electron level. So in the near future we could be making much more use of all those other sub atomic parts, not just for computing but really for everything.

I remember reading a while back in one of the posts that the engineers predate our modern technologies by at least a hundred thousand years of evolution. This gives them a really big head start.

That would make us look like primitive mammalian animals to them. We have technology like animals would inhabit a wilderness in comparison. It would be almost nearly impossible to speculate on what parts of the goo form very complex relationships as it would apply to what we even think of nano based machines and technology.

I shall end it here because as I stated before speculation would be at best what we could hope to achieve from a rational exploration of this technology.

Dear old Ridley Scott has set the trap on us with this one. Throwing religion in with the mix and hoping we dance along as he pulls the strings on the puppet. We do get to see his art play out as only the best acting and special effects can be combined to express in film though and that is priceless.

Yes the mind boggles to how far we may come in 50 or 100 years, look at the technological jumps we seem to make say every 10-20 years, if we look at what we can do now 100 years after the 1st world war, then can we fathom what we can do in 2114?

On the Goo, well Seems in Spaights draft and Original ideas was the Sacrificial Stuff basically is a means to break down a Organisms Genetic Material so that it then becomes a new substance that acts as a Evolutionary Accelerant, that mutates and evolved Organic life it comes into contact passing on Genetic Material it has contained in it via breaking down the Organism that consumed the Mutagen that starts this process and this new substance not only passes on that DNA but it also keeps some of the Organism it contacts best traits and evolves them..

We see the same thing pretty much in Prometheus... (ok Spaight draft used nano bugs to carry and pass on the Sacrifices DNA but its all the same just Bugs replaced by Mudlike Substance).

If you have seen LUCY you will see in the end we have something similar to the beging of Prometheus especailly Spaights draft.. I think Fox etc are now trying to make us see the Goo as something more complex than first conceived and so maybe what we see at the End of LUCY is something they picture the Goo from now on being like.

As far as if the comics will be Canon, i dont think so, i think they follow the events of Prometheus but its like reaching the Prometheus Time Line and then proposing Alternative Events that carry on after... one set of events is the Comics that tie in with Alien Franchise and indeed Predators and the other will be the on screen Alternative Future after Prometheus in which we may see some links to Blade Runner.

But as there was calibration with Fox and Ridley i think anything they show us connected to the Engineers, their Tech, the Xeno and any hints of Origins and connection to the Goo, and any hints of what the Goo does, will all be pretty much in the same direction that Fox and Ridley will go with the same subjects.

What i am saying is the Comics are showing us a salvage mission with its crew i.e (Clara, Francis, Galgo and Android Elden) and that these Characters may not fall into Canon to the movies Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 etc and Prometheus event well Part 2 etc but the events of those movies will be Canon to the Comic... also that in the Movie Canon,  the crashing on LV 223 of a Hadleys Hope Escape Vessel will most likely be consider to be something that never happens as far as Movie Canon.

What i am saying is the Comics provide us a Alternative History to the Alien and Prometheus franchise that adds the Predators, but at the same time the way it portrays the Xeno, Urns, Engineers and connections and futher effects of the Goo will not be something that is completely different to what the movies have shown and will show in future.

hence the reason why a race as old as the engineers shouldnt have genetic diversity problems - except if they are controlled by an exterior force.................

hmmm a comic of nothingness sounds very prometheus I might have to wait till they all out to read the story :( ... Ill take a look in a shop maybe :P ... I hope it is canon thats so much more fun...

I thought it was pretty good.  Check out the Aliens: Fire and Stone comic book too.  It is a throwback... really good.  Links into the Prometheus too.