Alien 3 Bad? Or Just Not Groundbreaking?

That would've been an even bigger 'Fuck you' than the one we got.

S.M. For me in the movie we got they just shuffled the pack to start where they wanted and the death of the other two was lame. For Newt to be chest busted and create the havoc A L I E N is a real plot devise. Similarly if Hicks had become aware of Ellen's horrific dilemma and pleaded with her to try surgery against Ripley knowing what the trade off would be that would have been engaging.

"Fuck You" for me is clearing the cupboards, which is what we got, if Newt had driven the story of the A L I E N and Hicks and Ellen Ripley are the survivors that feels plot driven for me. It would also have meant that not only was E R carrying a Queen but the A L I E N on the lose was also tied to her emotionally in the same revulsion destroy it/its part of me ambiguity. Thats the kind of ambiguity of that horrific scene where the A L I E N baits her and ends up presenting itself imagine how much more powerful that would have been if this was Newt A L I E N. It could have hinted that some kind of foot print of the host is bequeathed on the new born and begun to build that sense that Zenomorphs are the result of punishment and retribution through re alignment.   

Just having A L I E N's appearing out of the dark and folks screaming was never gonna work for a third movie thats also the danger for A C which I am quietly confident will be avoided.

Put simply Ellen Ripley needed a point of view about both the Queen and the Newt A L I E N.       

Having a Newt chestbursted would've just been mean spirited and gratuitous; just as chestbursting Sam and the pregnant women in AvP:R was mean spirited and gratuitous.  Shock value and revulsion and little else.

As for Hicks, he would've provided a buffer between Ripley and the prisoners, and these films always remove the buffer. Dallas, Apone, Gorman, Clemens, Andrews, Elgyn, Christie. Ripley doesn't step up on her own - she needs to be forced into that situation.  Hicks death was also a 'fuck you' but it ultimately served a purpose.

Newt, not so much.

Subjectively, their deaths don't especially bother me, as cheap as they are. Objectively, it extremely risky filmmaking that didn't really pay off.

Michelle yes that would have been interesting... i think they could have kept Hicks in the movie.

As for Newt, its a case of what would they do with a girl running around a Prison, and then explain why she looks different (Carrie Henn would been 15 not 11).

I think when they was working on such a movie this is a problem for them the same thing applies with Blomkamps Alien 5 where he was having it set at first not long after Aliens....  well they would face the same problem with Newt and would have to cast a similar looking 11-12 year old Girl.

Blomkamp has seemed to have changed his plans a bit by now having the movie set 20 years into the future which would be more fitting to explain Newts age and how much older Ripley would look.

So while i think it shocked Alien Fanboys they killed off the family so to speak, it logically had to happen i guess as far as where do we go now and how to fit Newt in?

And so a Newt Chest Buster would have been more of a Emotional Event.... they could have it track down Ripley and not kill her, like they did in Alien 3 but then have Hicks turn up and then see it attack Hicks.... which then make Ripley wonder why?  then go to the Queen Angle. etc.

Also i dont want to by Happy Endings, and well Alien 5 could see Hicks, Newt Ripley and Bishop all together, hey i wonder if Jonesy will join them... but this is what Miss Weaver hinted..

I think they had a Happy Ending until 20 years latter the Horror Returned.

Also yes seeing a Child Chest Busted would have been a Shock Factor..... but i cant see how you can beat the Original Chest Buster with out setting up such a scene evolving a Child...... so Alien Covenant has its work cut out because for it to work... it has to be different, or it has to be with a Character we are connected with and well we never really got connected with Shaw and i doubt a hour is enough to get any connection with any of the Covenant Crew to care about them being Chest Busted to a degree it would top the Original.

SM I am not talking about fan service readjustment or worrying whose dead or alive I am talking about explaining the Zenomorph from a much closer in perspective with a much more sophisticated emotional back drop.

But look at Covenant does Elizabeth work out that Charlie was spiked by David if so the potential for protagonist, antagonist redemption is substantial she may get inside the Zeno life cycle to destroy it. Thats how to make the A L I E N series interesting beyond Ridders visual feasts get inside the mythos from a human perspective thats what the misguided Resurrection is attempting to do but made zero progress.      

Great thought Michelle! Could Shaw work out what killed Holloway?

S.M: “Ripley is no more away "from civilization with people that you don't know" in Alien3 than she is in Aliens.”

Yeah, but she wasn’t alone among dangerous prisoners so it feels that she is alone among all the men. In Alien you had Newt and Lambert and Aliens had Vasquez, Newt, and eventually two other females. Ripley is alone as a female in A3 and far from Earth and the atmosphere feels more gloomy in a way that adds to it in a way that Alien and Aliens didn’t have. Consider also that the Derelict was important to the company and the company also had a bigger interest in what went on in Aliens. In A3 nobody cares about the prisoners, not until Ripley gets there the company gets interested because she has a Xeno in her. Sure Alien had a dark atmosphere but to me it isn’t the same feeling as Alien 3 has, I am not sure how to explain it better. Maybe I should have written felt more isolated in Alien 3? What ever

Vasquez and Ferro looked on Ripley with some amount of disdain. On the other hand, she shagged Clemens in short order.

And Burke had an interest in the Derelict and what went on in Aliens.  The Company cared more about the events in Alien3, as evidenced by them sending a specialised rescue ship.

ALIEN 3 is great