Why Prometheus was an Epic Fail-My thoughts on where Prometheus went wrong

I agree with you the story wasn't great, but the rest was really beautiful. I really liked the design choices they made with the movie. The space suits were inspired by drawings the artist Moebius made for Heavy Metal magazine, I thought they were gorgeous! (His designs were also used for the suits and other things in the first Alien movie). The giant facehugger was also inspired by Moebius artwork. A lot of the what we see in Prometheus and Alien was inspired by Moebius. Giger gets a lot of the spotlight and attention for Alien, and rightly so, but Moebius was also a huge influence on the designs of that movie. Visually speaking, Prometheus was a stunning movie, Ridley Scott always delivers in that area.

Did you watch the 'Furious Gods' documentary? Is that the bonus material you are talking about? Anyways, I thought that documentary was the best thing about the whole DVD. You can see some baffling decisions being made by Fox and trickled down to Ridley Scott in it, like the part where you see Ridley talking to Giger about the monsters/aliens but not using his designs. I really would have loved to see more of Giger in the movie as well.  I think a lot of the problems in the story were due to choppy edits, and having so many writers, a "too many cooks spoil the broth" scenario. Parts of the movie feel like they are missing and I can't place my finger on what exactly it is, it's annoying. I think the biggest fans of this movie read more into it than what there is, Ancient Aliens and all that. For regular Alien/Aliens fans, it was very disappointing.

I too loved LOST then lost (no pun intended) interest during the 3rd season. I didn't realise until years later that Lindelof started writing the episodes after the 2nd season. Still, I don't blame Lindelof for Prometheus, there were too many other fingers in that pie for it to be his fault entirelyand I do like the ideas he added to the script over Spaith's ideas. At least Lindelof tried to be original. 

I am a bit worried for Bloomkamp's Alien movie as well, I loved District 9 but thought his other movies had some major problems. Hoping he gets his act together for Alien5. I won't lose any sleep over it though, this whole Pronetheus debacle has taught me to be very wary of any hype surrounding a movie. I refuse to go see a movie on opening day/night now. I wait until many people have seen it then look at the reviews and talk to my friends and then decide. Only then will I watch a movie in theatres, if not I skip it. 

Extras:

A lot of the script re-used ideas from the original Alien script called 'Star Beast', read it and see: Star Beast / Alien -Script 

This Blog is awesome at explaining the Moebius connection and other Prometheus/Alien related information : Strange Shapes- Moebius

Welcome aboard.... and wow.. i got competition ;)   (i do big essays too lol ).


Production Design:

I think the movie looked wonderful, fitted well with the Plot they was trying to tell, only disapointment was we never got to see enough of the Grand Endure of it all.

The Space Jockeys:

This is one of the touchy subjects that still splits fans, like the Alien Queen.... likewise a lot have came to accept our Engineers as they have the Queen.

I think the idea is EPIC, a little bit to EPIC maybe, certainly a lot of Scope but maybe a Poisoned Challace.... maybe why they could be doing a U-Turn on our Engineers Culture, Hierarchy and Agenda.

My disapointment?  The Scale, in Spaights draft our Engineers was 15ft tall, Ridley then knew they cant pull that Scale off not how he planned to shoot the movie and so they was re-sized to being a 9ft tall race (10ft in Space Jockey Suits) But alas what we ened up with was really 8ft Space Jockeys and 7ft 3" Engineers. In the hope we would not notice the Scale...

A mistake made with Alien where the 25ft Space Jockey was actually 15ft


Body Horror:

I thought the C-Section was very good, yes it lacked the Original Chest Buster scene but then since that, how many Chest Bursts have we seen in Alien movies in AVP they dont stand out so not special no more...

But Spaights sex scene Chest Burster... wow that would have been gruesome far more than Alien one... shame we never saw it...

But Ridley was not trying to go a Alien Horror or The Thing Gore fest, or a Aliens Action fest.. he was trying to set this movie up to be something more like a 2001 Space Odyssey


Damon Lindelof:

Pretty much agree, this guy is a Genius as far as ideas... however he does never give it much thought as far as being coherent and having a plan of how things work from A-Z... so yes i agree and you are spot on...

Prometheus had a very Lost feel...


The Lack Of The Lovecraftian Feel Of Alien:

Not so sure you know, Shaws Trilobite is more Lovecraftian than anything in the Alien Franchise.

The Make Up:

To be fair i have seen worse... Weyland did not look the best Old Man make up but i have seen worse... but seen better too lol

But as for Fifield.... yeah never liked it, Toxic Avenger is all i can say and actually on par effects wise... a big let down for me this was.

one of my Worst Scenes for many reasons.... Inc the quality of the effects, the lack of connection to Xeno DNA where as the unused prop looked ace and concept work some of it awsome...  Then also Fifield killed too many Crew, they should have saved 1-2 for something else.

The Heavy Handed Religous Allegory:

Agreed a bit, but this was to go with the connection to Engineers and Ancient Mankind... they created us and evolved us and taught us stuff..

Sadly this could be a ball they have dropped (No more Gods Ridley comment!)

The Octopussy (literally, freeze frame the movie, that thing is just a mass of vaginas).

And you wanted more Giger... lol you dont get more than that lol... to be fair i thought the Hammerpedes and Trillobite looked very Good, i did think the Fifield and Deacon was a disapointment.

For the Classic Xenomorph we get the Deacon (which also doubles for the Chestburster) which is born fully formed.

This was odd to people but for those who have studied the movie and the Goo and what was going on they would then see the Trilobite was not a 100% Xeno Face Huger, it was meant to be a part Human part Xeno Face Huger..

Thus the Embryo implanted was not Xeno that takes on hosts traits, it was 50/50 Human/Xeno Embryo that takes on a Hosts Traits, thus it was born as a Mammal gives birth to a Baby, this is why it was bigger and near fully formed as a Adult because Mammals are like that... a Puppy, Baby, Kitten and Cub are all baby and cute versions of a Dog, Human, Cat and Tiger...

The Deacon was born with a Placenta, that also points to above and it had Human Hands and Feet.. not like the Xeno.. and it also had Enamal Teeth and not Metalic.

As far as the change of direction... with regards to the Xeno...

This is a tricky one, Ridley liked Spaights draft, some clues add to Fox bringing Lindeloff in and not Ridley, others seem to show Ridley liked to do some more Gigerish Alien stuff but Fox was not keen and wanted something different, this is when Ridley then also added there is only so much you can do with the Alien and it was kind of been done to death.

some of the concept work and ideas had enough of a Alien link, and sadly some of it was changed and dropped even after production had started.

I think that Part 2 would show us some Gigerish creations while stepping away from the Xeno a bit, i am sure Ridley and Fox had listerned to critism and they are either going to go ahead with what they want to do and not take a bit of notice about the fans, which Ridley said he makes movies for him and not the fans.

Or are they going to take some of it on board?  They know Prometheus did not get as well recieved as they hopped for, they would know that some fans had gripes with certain parts and so maybe they would try to please the fans more, but not go the route of a full on Xeno related movie and save Alien 5 to tie in more of the Xeno DNA and Black Goo and Lv 223/LV 426

Ridley said they are working on a new Monster, on that would be a fresher take on the ORIGINAL, so maybe we would get something we can trace to the Xeno or maybe not we would have to wait and see.

As far as the Engineers, again lets look at Gigers work... if you see his Alien Mural which predates the Space Jockey we see Humanoids in Space Suits, there are a few verions of this Mural i am sure of it?   Anyway the main one if we look at the Masks these beings who are Sacrificing one of their own to the Face Huger, if we ignore the section above the Hose of the Mask, the rest of the Suit looks similar to the Engineers suits..

Check it out and you will notice this, then we have the other Face Huger Concept works that again show them Face Hugging Victims, these Victims are Bald and Humanoid yet their suits have a more Alien look to them....  You will notice the Suits are the same as those in the Mural for 1979 Alien.

so maybe the Engineers was based off Gigers work on the Mural of the Xeno Life Cycle that was never used in Alien and his other 2 alternative Face Huger concepts.... notice also the Prometheus Mural features these two concepts in it.

As far disapointments about such things.... you are in luck, our Engineers are not the creators and they are indeed slave race, thats the way it looks like they are going..

As for if the Godlike beings they meet would be more like the Space Jockey, i dont know, i doubt it.. they may go the route of more like Larger Engineers who may have a slight less Human apearence but i doubt it would be like the Space Jockey as in assume it was a Skeleton... nope the Space Jockey is a Space Suit... thats what they have gone for and have done since Aliens.... Ridley all that time ago, said it was a Space Suit.

As far as Alien 5 fixing things and Alien 3 and R, this would be interesting... Alien 5 looks to give us a connection to the events in Prometheus or Part 2 and may even be the movie to show us how LV 223/426 the Xeno connects.. it would also have a lot of experiments on Xeno DNA and Alternative Xenos too.  But as for Alien 3 and R well they are being taken as Canon but Alternative... so who knows how they are going about this..

PS i agree to why does every Alien movie need a Ripley! i think it does not....

Prometheus a Epic Fail?

For some yes, but in general not really, some really liked it but others not so and some hated it but for the most part the movie was a Disapointment!

Why? Here i will adress why in General it was...

1) Hype and Anticipation... Part 1 Space Jockey and Xeno Origins

The movie had been nearly 30 years in the making as far as Two Questions never answered before in the Franchise...

i) The Space Jockey, who was here, where was he from, why did he have that Cargo, where was he Going etc.

ii) The Xeno, where did it come from and how did those Eggs end up being on that Ship.

These was the premise for doing Prometheus, it was to answer those and to a degree Spaights draft did so, it was set on LV 426 and indicated the plight of the Space Jockey, it did not show us exactly how the Xeno came about but that the Space Jockeys did indeed create many versions of them but it was never shown if they was responsible for its Origins.

Lindelofs draft and the movie changed and tonned down some of these elements and it fleshed out some of the Plot... Changed location to LV 223 a near by outpost.

Many fans wanted Answers, they wanted to know about the Space Jockey and those 2 questions and even if we never saw the exact Space Jockeys Story.... as long as we find out about the Space Jockey Race and what connection and reasons for having those Eggs and the Derelict.

And the Origins of the Xeno, where did it come from.....

Sadly for those who wanted those answers... they did not get them in a way they wanted them...  some was disapointed of how our Space Jockeys are Giant Humanoids in Space Suits but Ridley had sugested for years this was the case...

But i think the biggest disapointment was that we did not get explained to us in a bit more detail of How the Xeno came to be and those Eggs. There are clues but they are vague and they are clues that leave us with more Questions that seem to be touching upon a explanation and connection that we was not shown but hinted at something that could be bigger than a simple explanation....

The same route is true with the Space Jockeys/Engineers creating mankind etc..

2) Hype and Anticipation... Part 2 Ridley Scott

The movie was also going to be Directed by Ridley Scott so those disapointed with other movies in the Franchise had something to look forwards to as far as a movie that goes back to the routes of Alien and gives us another dark and horrifc tense paced Alien movie.

Sadly Prometheus was not the Tense Horror that Alien was, and it was also not the Action movie like Aliens that others may had wanted to see.

3) Hype

The Trailers, the way they was done and comments by Ridley and others surely left those waiting the near 30 years for this movie breathless, the Trailer painting a picture of something Epic and Sinister....

Sadly Trailers can do that, they can mislead and be cut in a way that adds to the Hype.

4) Expectation and Raising the Bar

So fans had a high Anticipation for the movie, they had waited nearly 30 years for those answers left from Alien and also for Ridley to enter the Sci Fi directors chair...

Sadly Anticipation and Hype of Movies and especially those that have not been done for ages so long over due Sequels and Prequels and even to a degree Re-boots all have the Hype and Expectations of the Original, and Sadly many movies that were so Classical and Cult, have such a HUGE BAR and futures movies would always be up against it and the Originals used as the Yard stick to measure the movie by and rarely have it taken on its own Merits.

The Star Wars Trilogy set before the first 3, so EP 1-3 had a massive task to live upto EP 4-6, they also a Prequel story to explore the Story of Darth Vader a massive massive expectations... and Phantom Menace failed to deliver big time, but Parts 2 and 3 made up for it and we have to have high hopes for Prometheus 2 and 3 if its made... but with the  New Star Wars Trilogy Parts 7-9 they will face a even larger task, especially with returning cast from Parts 4-6...

The same goes with every major movie sequel, prequel and re-boot they would always have to live up to the Original... Often while doing a decent job, they never seem to re-capture that Magic (Robocop, Total Recall, TMNT) but then you also get some set as a Prequel to Answer and to show us the what happened before..... this is what many had hoped Prometheus would have done... but alas even if they went directly this route its tricky and can lead to massive disapointment.... The Thing 2011 anyone?

So yes Prometheus did not give us what we wanted, it was floored in some ways, but wonderful in others...

I think the biggest disapointments are the Hype and Potential

What i am saying is if Prometheus was a stand alone movie, if the Juggernaughts was not same as the Derelict, if there was no Weyland in it etc.... but a different company...  then maybe the movie would have been viewed as being better?

There are other disapointments yes, and not meaning the Space Jockeys being Giant Bald Muscle bound Humanoids, or how there was no Xenos, or Eggs or anything as related to them as some would have hopped.

The movie had few other problems but i think most would stem to how those 2 main questions (Space Jockeys and Xeno) was handled and also the hype of a Alien movie directed by Ridley Scott are all the main reasons people was disapointed because of the expectations and POTENTIAL other ways these could have been done.

I'm sorry you found Prometheus to be such a let down.

Many were disappointed by the vagueness of it's connection with Alien, although the connections were quite clear. Still more complain of plot holes as if no other film, including Alien, isn't riddled with them.

But to complain about the visuals is especially surprising, Prometheus was thoroughly, brilliantly realized by hugely talented artists, and every frame is graced with their passion. Say what you like about the writing, that Prometheus is a visual tour de force can't be argued.

The ship itself was well beyond anything Ron Cobb has done, while certainly paying homage to his aesthetic.

The dome finally put up on the screen what many would call a classic Giger concept.

The space suits were indeed inspired by Moebius, and by several decades of classic Sci Fi design, every bit as unique and memorable as the ones in Alien, while fitting well with the more athletic silhouettes that are appropriate today.

The Hammerpede was fantastic, the first original space organism in a long time that truly looked spacey without looking absolutely ridiculous, and finally an Alien lifeform that is not a Xenomorph!

And I wonder what TV show you saw that featured a self inflicted C-section? That scene was brilliant. There is little or no way you can top the impact of the chestbuster from Alien. They tried, and did it with a flair you're unlikely to find elsewhere. There is no shortage of body horror here.

A lot of stellar imagination, talent, and heartfelt love of science fiction and the Alien universe in particular was poured into Prometheus, with the result being an unique and startling break from the norm. Of course, I do recognize that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but to call Prometheus an epic fail is overstating things more than a bit. 

JAMIETHEB@$+@RD - Welcome to SCIFIED! It is always agreeable to see new faces! As for your opinions: I can certainly understand and appreciate your standpoints. For me, there were some let-downs; however, I do not feel that the film was a complete failure. At certain points, I felt that Prometheus reached interesting heights. At others, the film seemed to collapse under the weight of its own ancestry and the expectations of its fanbase. As a woman, I found the C-Section scene to be utterly horrifying! The concept of having to remove an alien organism from your body after your body has registered it as an infant (and subsequently developed an umbilical cord to feed it) is, in my opinion, nightmarish! Regardless, I found your topic to be quite interesting to read! Once again, welcome to SCIFIED! :)

Gotta agree with the OP on this one, for the most part anyways. Whie I will agree with fans of Prometheus that it is a visually stunning film, beneath its highly glossy shell Prometheus is a haphazard mess in terms of its narrative, its characters, its logic and its delusions of grandeur. Lemme add my two cents...

• The crew travel nearly 40 light years over the course of 2 and a half years, jump off their ship the moment it lands and immediately explore the dome/pyramid. Why then is this eagerness to explore the dome/pyramid dropped the moment a storm approaches. Wouldn't such tenacious and curious characters as Shaw and Holloway have demanded to remain inside the dome/pyramid, making for a better, darker, more suspenseful movie closer to the original.
• Upon finding a 2000 year old corpse of an alien the teams biologist runs away scared with the teams geologist and mapping expert whom gets them both lost.   
• What purpose does the Hammerpede serve? - absolutely none. While it shows that goo is xenomorph related the creature itself is used to kill two characters and is never referred to ever again. Why did it deepthroat Milburn only to leap out hours later seemingly unchanged.
• Why is Janek oblivious to the fact that he can clearly see the dozens of engineer corpses Milburn and Fifield are looking at
• "Vickers, are you a robot?" ... "My room ten minutes" Why is this scene even in the film, a waste of 5 minutes that could have been used to further eplore some of the fims more important narative threads.
• Engineer drinks goo and seeds life an an ancient world. Worm exposed to goo becomes an aggresive deep throating snake. Guy exposed to goo (Fifield) becomes an aggresive zombie. Guy drinks goo (Holloway), falls ill. Guys girlfriend gets pregnant, gives birth to an octopus which facehugs an Engineer birthing an alien that looks like something from an Alien rip off movie.
• How did Holloway not see David spike his drink?
• Why did Vickers not roll to the side out of the way?
• Where did the Engineer get burn marks on his face from?
• Why was the final confrontation between the Engineer and Shaw cut so pathetically short?
• Why was the cup changed to a green crystal?
• Why was the Engineers conversation with David cut from the movie entirely?
• Why was the long limbed Fifield monster cut from the movie?
• What painkillers is Shaw on at the movies end?
• Why hasn't the original cut of the movie not been released? And whats the bet it is better than the release cut?

GAVIN SINGLETON - The points you have made are extremely interesting - and eye-opening! I had not taken into account some of the information you have presented! Thank you very much for giving me something to think about! :)

Gavin i agree with some of what your saying...

some parts of the movie was cheesy, but this maybe is Lindeloffs writting, but we cant blame him for everything for me the BIGGEST problem was that there seemed a better cut that would have flowed better and added more together and added more depth to the movie, it would take me ages to go through them all mind ;)

But yes looking at many scenes that was cut, others that was re-edited and re-shot if they was added in would have helped i feel to have gave us a movie that kind of flowed and added up better.

The movie had some good concept work, had some areas used these and maybe been slightly less ambigious and given us a few more clues or dialog about certain things it could have left us with more clues....

Some things have been changed to go with a change of direction as far as the Goo Goes and Engineers and who created them...

The Goo was not as well thought out as Spaights version which had a A-Z to it, but when looking at Spaights draft we then do make more sense of it all, but yes there are a number of things that kind of can be difficult to peice together as far as Goo effects, especially when they are trying to now say the stuff at the start and Urns is the same...

I will for now answer two of your points...

• Where did the Engineer get burn marks on his face from?
• Why was the final confrontation between the Engineer and Shaw cut so pathetically short?

My Friend this is a simple Answer..... The Engineer must have in a full scene he must have got Acid Burn off the Trillobite, we see him struggle with it in the Full Scene, and then as it is about to Win the Battle i would assume the Engineer gets Burnt after he Bites the Trillobite...

You see he was wrestling with the Trillobite that had a good hold of his waist but could not get a good grip around the Engineers Head, the Trillobite was attempting to wrap its tentacles around his head but it could not do so as the Engineer but up a good fight and we see the tentacles come close to his face.... when a animal be that Human also, is in a fight and situation it can not free itself from, in most cases we would bite as a last desperate attempt to escape...

Could this have happened? what if it did, there would be Acid Blood, this would spray on the Engineer and this would then pose a advantage to allow the Trillobite to Finally get the upper hand and then have the Engineer in a position it can then unleash its Embryo implanting tongue...

Is there any evidence for this apart from how it seems a logical explanation and would also show our Trillobite has Acid for Blood and thus a XENO Connection?

Yes!

You will need to play Prometheus on a Computer and a media player that has a slow down function.... you will notice the deleted Engineer scene he has no Burn, but no soon as he gets to Shaw and she UNLEASHES the Trillobite  the Engineer has a Face and Shoulder Burn, but slowly you see this occurs before the tentacle even grabs him.. this scene then goes to him struggling a bit and cuts.

The scene in the actual released cut shows our Engineer already has this Burn.. Job Done...

However.... proceed with slow speed and the Burn Vanishes, yep it goes away..

01:50.53 Burnt Face

01:50.57  next shot Burnt Face

01:50.59 shot of Engineer fall to floor ontop of Shaw  Burn Face

01:51.00  strugling with Trilobite  NO Burnt Face

01:51.14  still strugling with Trilobite  NO Burnt Face 14 seconds worth

Then cut to Shaw escaping and getting her Helmet..

01:51.20 back to Engineer struggling with Trilobite inc close ups.. NO Burnt Face 4 seconds till 

01:51.24 shot of the Trillobites Mouth

01:51.26 Engineer face shot with BURNS

01:51.29 back to from behind then to side where he is lifted off floor and using his feet to prevent him from being pulled close to the Trillobite  NO Burnt Face 4 seconds until

Shot of Shaw going to the exit after collected supplies

01:51.40 to 01:51.44  Back to final struggle Engineer with what seems NO Face Burn is being pulled very close, he has his mouth open showing his teeth the Tentacle is right by his mouth on the side of where Face Burn happens...

What would be last Logical desperate move..... BITE?

01:51.44 shot of Engineer with BURNS

01:51.46 Shot of Trilobites mouth as it unleashes its other Tentacles to wrap around the Face of a Burnt Engineer, and the rest is History.. he is BURNT from then on.

WHY THE APEARING AND DISAPEARING BURN?

Seems to me the Scene went as follows... Engineer gets up out of his Chair, No Burns, runs across the surface to LV 223 to the Lifeboat No Burns or Mask, this would show us they dont need Mask to breath outside, so the Temple was Teraformed for us or life like us.

He enters and we have the full Scene where he finds a book and kneels down to read it, then notices the Voilin Girl... before Davids comunication with Shaw reveals where she was hidding....

We get the deleted fight Scene, then when Shaw opens the Door must have been a latter shot.... but Originally there was another and we get the Engineer and Trillobite fight....

The Engineer Bites the Trillobite.....

Then Ian Whyte has to have Burns make up applied, they then continue with the final part of the fight, untill the Trillobite wins due to injuries via Acid Burn maybe caused by being Bitten, causes the Trillobite to finally gain the upper hand....

FOR SOME REASON....

They was not happy with that scene well the part where Shaw and Engineer fight, i remember Ridley said it felt that the scene undermined the Engineer as far as being a big bad ass, vs a small Female... er... Shaw had a Axe lol

Now by deciding to re-shoot a scene where the Engineer over powered Shaw, would they remove the Burns make up?  

Nope to save time they decided to re-shoot the Scene the way we saw it in the actual Cut we had released, and it kind of worked as we could be led to believe the Burns was from the Crash....

But in doing a Re-shoot with the Burns make up, they had to go for that explantion as they could not use the others shots from leaving crashed Juggernaught to when he discoved Shaw as he had no Burns....

And that Gavin is the explanation to those two points.... its never been OFFICIALLY credited that the Engineer caused a wound to the Trillobite but as you will see if you check out the evidence this seems to be the case!

for me it s the best science fiction movie ever see!i study for hours day mounth years this movie,it s most interesing movie!!and you speak very much about this every day and expeting somthing new and now you say it s a fail???need years to grow this movie

!

The above shows how some of the editing of the movie helped to confuse it...  the Re-shoot of the Fight Scene, was a way to explain the Engineer got burnt during crash and he was well peed off with Shaw..... Very Nasty Bugger....

But the full shots scenes would have answered and showed us a few things...

1) The Engineer did not need a mask to breath on the surface of LV 223, could they breath for a length of time we dont know, but it would show they could for a period...  This could lead to some of the questions about Tera-forming and breathable atmosphere inside the Temple and Juggernaught.... could it had been for US?

2) The Scene would show the Trillobite produces Acid for Blood, just as a Face Huger does and thus help peice the connections to the Xeno DNA. And Goo Connection.

3) The Scene would shown how intrigged the Engineer was with Mankind, and not just some hell bent Biological TERMINATOR, The full Sacrifical Scene (inc Dialog and Translated) and Full Engineer Speaks Scene (in Translations) paints a different picture to how some of our Engineers are... as opposed to Biological TERMINATORS

It also allows us to maybe get some Clue as to how did the Outbreak Happen and why did the Last Engineer Survive... and lead us to maybe some kind of change of mind and  SOBOTAGE?

There are many other changes that may have helped to make the peices not fall together correct.... The Green Orb vs Sacrifical Bowl is another.

@claudius

Its a Bold Movie it is in a sense a Jig Saw, that has missing peices, where we have trouble to build the Big Picture, one where we put the peices together as best we can and we have gaps, where our minds wonder...

What goes into that area of the puzzle,  does this section need moving this way or that?

So we study it over and over, never quite managing to get it....

But once Parts 2 and 3 if its made or Alien 5 come out and give us the final peices, then it would all fit together and HOPEFULLY give us a truely Epic Movie Franchise that fits perfectly to Alien..

Regardless i think Prometheus is one of those movies that may not had done that great, but it will over time become a Cult movie and in 20 years when we look back at it, it would go down as such a movie.

First up just wanted to say thanks for all the feedback. As I am a noob at this, forgive me if I miss touching on your replies. Svanya thanks for reformatting the post for me as I have been having some PC issues and have tried to post this a number of times and when I try and preview it freezes on me. Any tips on posting would be appreciated e.g.  double spacing for paragraphs, responding to individual replies etc. also can't seem to access my onsite inbox.

Did you know that the brilliant Jean(Moebius)Giraud actually worked on Alien as a concept artist? those designs were done by him specifically for the film and the ones in Prometheus were only vaguely similar, (I kept expecting them to fall over because the suits looked so top heavy with the big helmets and skinny little bodies), and I'm sorry but the Prometheus spacesuit design was ripped off blatantly from an old 60's Russian Sci Fi flick (Hollywood  bought up a load of Russian Sci Fi films and redubbed them, Francis Ford Coppola did one of these in his early career) Voyage to a Prehistoric Planet if I remember rightly. 

Now I don't think your man Lindelof is entirely to blame for Prometheus shortcomings, Ridley Scott has to take his share.You say that you can't quite put your finger on where the screenplay went wrong, but to me it seems fairly  obvious, I think it's just down to lazy scriptwriting. Is the man so in love with his own writing that he can't see the problems with the script? It's not hard to go over the script and fix up any points where it's not making sense (scientists behaving very unscientifically, idiots getting lost: why, when they are in communication with the ship, which has a bloody great holographic map of the pyramid complete with icons showing each team members location, do they not just radio the ship? "Prometheus we are lost can you tell us how to get back to the entrance" ???? ludicrous) If Lindelof can't recognise where the script needs fixing, bring in a script doctor to fix it up. Lindelof's final draft screenplay felt more like a working draft. To see where it went wrong I really urge you to check out The Prometheus Code blog as it points out every stupid plot malfunction perfectly and hilariously. 

Ridley Scott,  if you announce that you are making a prequel to Alien why get cold feet at the last minute and try and move away from it? If you want to make a movie based on Von Daniken's (who was accused of dodgy resarch,    blatantly making shit up, twisting historical facts to fit his theories etc) Chariots of the Gods, make an original film, not some half arsed hybrid.

I am also very dubious about going to see any film these days, whether it be an established franchise or an original film,  I never believe the hype because you end up disappointed, time and time again. You can make any piece of crap look good in a preview. Though this has robbed me of the oppurtunity of seing some good films on the big screen (Gravity, Interstellar) where they should be viewed for maximum effect. Although I will be at Mad Max: Fury Road on opening day as this also a film I have been waiting many years for, If George Miller drops the ball like Ridley Scott did I think I will stop going altogether, but for now I will give him the benefit of the doubt, as all reports on this are encouraging. Hype?

On the issue of the Lovecraft themes. Whilst I do agree that stylistically the Octopussy is Lovecraftian in it's execution, the themes in Prometheus are not. In Lovecraft's work, the idea that human beings are just insects in a cold, dark universe, less than nothing to the Elder Gods, fit only for facilitating their eldritch agenda, Alien captured this perfectly. In Prometheus we are the main focus " It's us, it's everything" reinforcing a very narrow minded, humanocentric view of the universe, propounded by religion. We are the pinnacle of evolution?, It's a pretty lame universe if we're the best it can come up with. We're still really just monkeys flinging crap at each other, (killing each other off in the millions over little bits of paper with numbers on them, letting ancient literature that is contradictory, of dubious authenticity and open to infinite interpretations rule peoples lives, create artificial diviisions between us that shouldn't exist and yet again causing a torrent of bloodshed and misery, watching millions starve to death whilst others get fat and bloated, etc). As you can tell I'm not overly impressed by the human race, and we really need to grow up and get our shit together or face extinction. Sorry this wasn't meant to be a philosophical rant, I just got sidetracked. To me Prometheus felt more at home in the Star Trek universe than the Alien universe.

On the subject of plot holes in Alien.

I'm really struggling to remember any major plot holes in Alien. Whilst Prometheus resembled a piece of Swiss cheese, nothing in Alien really made me stop and think W.T.F.? But if you can point any out to me I will go back and watch it again and see if I agree. I really don't think Prometheus has what it takes to become a cult movie, and would be seriously surprised if it did. Yes it did look stunning, you can always count on Scott to make a film that is a visual feast, even if it's script is an incoherent mess. It's just the wasted opportunity, as I felt that with today's SFX technology, the realisation of Giger's design aesthetic taken to the max would have been totally mind blowing, and this is what I expected when I  heard the announcement that Scott was making an Alien prequel. I wasn't expecting a retread of Alien, but a dark, terrifying horror film based in that universe. Alien squared as it were, and just can't understand why Scott got cold feet. Prometheus also doesn't fill me with confidence for the Blade Runner sequel either, I just fervently hope that Scott doesn't spend the rest of his career shitting on his own legacy. I know it's a bit off topic, but does anyone have any info on Blade Runner 2? I assume that it's not going to focus on Deckard as Harrison Ford is too old to play the role (especially if Deckard is a replicant) or will Ridley Scott re-cast the role, as George Miller did with Max Rocatansky.

Anyway thanks to Svanya, Big Dave, Major Noob and everyone who replied to my post, again sorry if I missed anything  or anyone, It wasn't deliberate just my noobishness.

Cheers.

JAMIETHEB@$+@RD - There is absolutely nothing for which you should be sorry! We are always extremely happy to welcome new members to the site! Your topic was thought-provoking and very interesting to view! I hope to see more of your topics in the future! :)

@Jamiethebastard; No problem! Helping members is what I am here for! Onsite Mail can only be accessed via the main site, Scified. Just login there to check your mail. 

Yep, I know Moebius designed a lot for Alien, i mentioned it and posted images in my response. :P

Here is a link to Scified: http://www.scified.com/

Did you know that the brilliant Jean(Moebius)Giraud actually worked on Alien as a concept artist?

Yes i did notice that and its also of note that they seem to use a lot of old concept work, the Engineers we already saw them in Gigers Alien Concept works. Prometheus also used a lot of ideas from Star Beast as far as the Urns too...

Gravity.... tried watch it but i never felt it was amazing i thought it was B3!"$!" lol..  the effects was not out of this world, no way.. Prometheus Space Scenes was better IMO

Also the Science was flawed especially seeing Sandra being spining round and round arms flaying at those G's the Human Body would not take that.

And also i have never rated Bullock as a Actress, some movies so so, others well she like a female Arnie lol  Thats just My oppinion mind, dont mean i am correct ;)

On the issue of the Lovecraft themes.

I think you would be pleased with how the sequel seems to be going, it looks like it could be very sinister and none of this Ancient Alien creates and nurtures Mankind, then wants us destroyed because we no long please or serve them...

as you can tell I'm not overly impressed by the human race, and we really need to grow up and get our shit together or face extinction.

Are you sure your not a Engineer lol .. i think they kinda had same view on us and maybe why we had to go ;)

Alien Plot Holes... every movie has some, but i felt the execution of the Plot and how the Cast responded to the threat they was under was very well done...  Ok there was some silly moments as far as spliting up when you got a unknown Organism on board... tut tut Brett and Dallas, no wonder you ended up being used for a Egg and Host in the DC.

But sometimes these things have to be done, because they are Plot Devices.. if it was not for these then every Horror Movie etc would have hardly no one die ;)

Star Trek?  Yep i think maybe the idea may have been that the Engineers and what they do and create could open the door to open up a spin off Franchise and it would have got a bit Star Trek, Babylon 5 etc...

I dont think Prometheus was narrow minded in the scope of its plot, i felt it was HUGE these Engineers could have created and seeded life on Earth, upgraded and taught us stuff and also done the same on God knows how many other Worlds, they also have a hand in the Xeno creation and so opens up a Whole Universe of possible creations...

But yes this would have led to a bit of a Star Trek

Where as Alien seemed very Dark, you had to wonder about that Space Jockey and why he had that Cargo and the every Dark Nature of the Xeno.....  so i think people would have rather seen the movie go more for a sinister Plot and Horrific one, a bit like the Lovecraft themes you pointed out.

It does now seem that they are going that kind of route and away from a Star Trek kinda movie...

JamietheBastard-Im sorry, I never welcomed you! Welcome aboard, I hope you have fun here, hopefully we'll all have a new Prometheus movie to tear apart soon!

I loved Moebius as a kid and still have The Black Incal and Airthight Garage books in my collection. I was blown away to learn he was among the production artists behind Alien and it was one more reason I absolutely had to see the film, which was every bit the amazing experience I had hoped it would be.

But even at a tender age I found some things just didn't work. The egg chamber, for one. Absolutely gorgeous and terrifying and way, way too big to be part of the Derelict. Yes, we don't know if it was part of the ship or something the ship was docked to, but it's certainly popular to believe it was part of the ship and I don't think Ridley ever suggested it wasn't.

We understand that it was meant to function as a different element of the story, the interior of a pyramid, but was edited for economy's sake and that's what we got. And it's great. And spatially off putting, with no mention of this in the film itself.

If we continue to apply plot hole logic, we could question why Kane, who spent X amount of time with an abdominally intrusive acid bleeding yellow spider parasite from space attached to his face, was invited to dinner without concern for his or his fellow crew's health.

We could assume a computer, or Ash who is also a computer, said Kane was ok. Just like David said the air was breathable, for example, endorsing the removal of helmets.

Why was the acid bleeding spider carcass then just lying around dead on a tray? Did they ever dispose of it? That would be a good idea. It was in the script, why wasn't it filmed?

Theres plenty more. I don't really care all that much about these questions, I just wonder why it's more important to ask them of Prometheus? It's fun, spectacular and intelligent Sci Fi. Not genius Sci Fi. But neither was Alien. Alien's perfection came from imagination and tone, which are my favorite elements of Prometheus as well, and why I'm inclined to defend it.

We're all aware of the visual history and references in Prometheus. I guess it's a matter of taste then, when talking about the suits. I love 'em. If we wanted to, we could accuse the filmmakers of "ripping off" dozens of sources, but I do think it's questionable to accuse this particular bunch of stealing anything. They are simply too talented, too experienced and competent to need to steal. There are clever, loving references and homages throughout the film, to practically the whole history of popular Sci Fi, industrial design, pop art, you name it. What is wrong with that?

This whole Ancient Astronauts thing bugs me too. Who cares? The Engineers are scary and cool, there's interesting stuff going on there and I can't wait to see some more of their mischief. The religious stuff is really only there if you care to dig for it, and its cool if nothing else that there's stuff to dig for. All kinds of stuff.

Last, I didn't get that Prometheus was calling humankind the pinnacle of evolution, but rather the bottom of a very steep ladder, taking baby steps into that very cold, enormous universe and cocking it all up in the name of vanity. They stumble upon what looks to be a rather defunct campsite of some long dead technological titans and still manage to get their asses handed to them.

If you haven't already, give Furious Gods a look. It will entertain you, for sure, and it might improve your assessment of those involved.

It verry usful,

u can go: scified.com

or    aliensversuspredator.net

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One mans's trash is another man's treasure! :-)

I loved Prometheus and I understand your problems with it..but because we get so few space movies, I tend to overlook the problems and embrace them like the last  day of summer! 

@MajorNoob....You are very right about Alien. One quick X-ray of Kane would have revealed the alien in his belly. Ash should have instantly put him in deep sleep and let the corporation study him.... and if the crew was expendable, then once Ash had the facehugger on board, he would kill the crew(turn off life support/poison/ect..), then simply call the corporation and wait to be rescued. The corp would send a fleet of ships to loot the derelict and recover the pods.

Jamie- you should also check this out:

https://alienseries.wordpress.com/2015/02/26/alien-and-its-antecedents/