David getting "ahead"... funny.

Im think that maybe there are many factions of engineers. A war has played out between a military faction( zues engineers ) obessed with power and belief they should alone be gods ...using a specific goo designed to millitarise their DNA ( Very specifically engineer DNA !!!! ) hence the engineer seen in the film with bio implants etc. missuse leads to mutant  and disasterous results.

..and  a creative faction ( promethian) using another goo ( DNA catalyst )  designed  to seed their DNA life on worlds, spreading in an almost science/religious fervour. hence the engineer in the start of the film.

this war has lead to the destruction of paradise and contaminated the planet ...the xeno is an accident quickly mutating animals or slugs etc it was not designed to interact with. creating the very seeds of their destruction.

when they played god they were destroyed.

The planet in prometheus was a staging point for promethians and was one of many worlds undergoing terraforming. the zues faction invaded in an attempt to stop them and it ended in disaster.

when woken the zues engineer was confronted with the humans who represtented the corruption of his species. killed them and tried to continue his mission to destroy that which the promethians created. the obomination to its purity.

the idealogical war 2000 years ago that destroyed their civilisation both on paradise and the LV planets and the DNA catalyst and the religious beleif they could play god was ulimatly their undoing.

Humans stumble onto traces of this aftermath. discovering mysteries and xenomorphs engineers and installations paradise etc and eventually the horror of the DNA catalyst and like infects them too. we were not meant to be gods and neither were the engineers like icarus flying too close to the sun.

excuse spelling and possible stupid errors.

@Tobor123

I think you express very clearly one of the big questions for Covenant. 

A "disaster" occurred on Paradise was it :-

1) The result of an inter Engineer War. 

2) The hierarchy's judgement. 

3) David "bringing hell".

Whichever one it is, as you say, out of this kind of dysfunction emerged the Xenomorph. 

My own view is it is the intervention of the "hierarchy" because quite clearly the Engineer society is not in the present, where as the consequences of the Engineers both good and bad are with us. 

If the Engineers are merely "more superior" than us and not gods who made them and who intervened that I suspect is the potential question for the third movie.  

Another aspect that was mentioned is the time-line here.  These events presumably happened around 2,000 years ago, which is essentially when "modern man" emerged and evolved.  So we are so far behind the curve, as far as being a space-faring race, that by the time we get to outer space, the original race is long gone. 

That seems to be part of the deal; the worlds that are seeded by (whoever) take so long to develop, that meeting "the creators" may be a sporty proposition.  Especially in this case where the engineers fall from grace from their elders.

So yeah that's a fascinating concept to explore: where is the human race in the time-line of other worlds and races out there.  And how long would this time-line presumably be?  Could their be millenniums of ancient civilizations that preceded us? How many other worlds were seeded?  If there ARE other worlds, on roughly the same time-line as us, could we eventually link up?

That would be a fascinating add to the story.  As other seeded planets get off their planets and seek the same answers as us. 

As this relates to our story, "god" may be dead, but his children live on, and may eventually meet up.        

Diz:

These events presumably happened around 2,000 years ago, which is essentially when "modern man" emerged and evolved.

I'm still holding out for the Space Christ theory! I think Christ's crucifixion is going to play a role. However, they sort of implied it in Prometheus and dodged the subject, so I wonder if they're still going to be too afraid to really be straight forward about it.

Mmmm, yeah, and I think they would still get too much push back from conservative Christian views, which has to be considered in the bottom line. 

The story of Christ might be a parallel track to the engineers/zenos, or as some have thought, be directly tied to it.  But I don't think Ridley would ever be that direct about it. 

I think Ridley likes being sort of irreverent, though. So part of me thinks they might still sneak it in there, but have it subtle enough still that it's ambiguous and not definitive. I mean, he's already spoken about some "Godlike" being, so that should be fun!

They have to stay somewhat within this creator storiline.  The engineers left a being on earth from which we evolved and then they planned to come back to earth with these pods.  Dr. Shaw's parting words still need a response: They created us then they tried to kill us. They changed their minds. I deserve to know why.  We deserve to know why and Ridley won't let that go.  I am sad Dr. Shaw won't play much if any role in this movie but I'd like to think she is not dead, perhaps locked away in the alien horseshoe ship.  

This brings up something else, David the Head tells Dr. Shaw there's more ships on LV-223.  So Prometheus happens upon the one ship where the shit hit the fan with the Engineers and their bio-weapons.  Were the other ships empty? 

Dr. Shaw and David take off in this alien ship and knowing what we know about Elizabeth she would: A. Remove or destroy all the pods lest to end up like the Engineers.  B.  She would either not put David back together or take precautions he would not knock her off while in kryo.  Yes Ridley could come up with some devious plot but he loves the heroine...hello, Ripley.

Please forgive the newby here if I've touched on issues long since put on a shelf.  I love Prometheus and the Alien franchise, minus the versus, and can't wait for the next installment.  I just can't see them walking away from the "Sometimes to create, one must destroy."  It all comes back to us.

The Dude Abides:

They created us then they tried to kill us. They changed their minds. I deserve to know why.  We deserve to know why and Ridley won't let that go.

Yeah, this needs to at least be brought up again. Definitely. I think the scenes with Shaw are going to be pretty pivotal. Probably won't conclude anything, but I suspect they will at least set up for some revealing stuff.

"Unfortunately, the plot becomes obscured on how Dr. Shaw's fetus (after having sex with the "black goo" infected Dr.Halloway 10 hours ago) can grow into a giant face-hugger without an incubating host"

The way to look at this is if we consider the Black Goo in those Urns... Evolves Life it comes into contact with, it infects Organisms DNA passing Xenomorph related DNA onto it while also taking the Organisms best traits and Evolving them.

If we take this stance, and then consider that a Female Egg is a basic canvas for Life.... and that a infected Egg will evolve into a Stage 1 Embryo in which almost all creatures on Earth (Mammals, Fish, Reptiles, Birds) all look very similar at Stage 1 Embryo......

We can consider a Stage 1 Embryo as a Blank Canvas with less Native DNA to re-write and so what we have is something more Xenomorph related...

A Xenomorph is born from a Egg... a Egg is laid and inside this Egg is the Face Hugger the first prime/active stage of the Life Cycle

Shaws infected Egg acted like the Xeno laid Egg, only instead of having a Organism grown inside a Egg like Birds, Reptiles do... Shaws Organism Evolved into a Face Huger instead.

Shaws Baby was a Hybrid Human/Xeno Face Hugger.

As far as how fast it grew, we are talking a Rapid Evolving Cycle that the Xeno Strain DNA has..... in Alien note how quick the Xenomorph Grew from the Small Chest Buster thats maybe a Foot Tall, (not inc Tail) to the Adult Xenomorph that was 7ft (not inc Tail) then you can see how fast these related Organisms can grow/evolve.

Alien Covenant and Prometheus are pretty open to what they can explore...  there are a number of conflicting things that need to be covered to prevent potential Plot Holes......

As far as Paradise goes.... Covenant hints that all that remains when the crew of the Ship arrive is David 8 from Prometheus... but there is also something evolving on the World......  that has something to do with what the Engineers had created...

This does not mean the Engineers creating this Evolving Creature, as Ridleys comments are ambiguous... but it certainly at least means what ever the Evolving Creature is... it would not be possible for it to be evolving without some Biology the Engineers had created.

This thus does not rule out David 8 using something the Engineers Created... i.e Black Goo.

Previous to Alien Covenant, Ridley was going the route that David and Shaw would find some beings on Paradise, but these beings are not Benevolent... and certainly not Gods.... this does not bold well for Shaw and David..... as we saw how a single Engineer had wrecked havoc after he tore Davids Head Off..

But Ridley had said then... that David was bringing Hell with him, and what happens if the Black Goo infects God, or a Machine?

This Plot is not what we are getting now, but it does not mean we wont see some of it.... Alien Covenant could set us on the path of the Aftermath of when David and Shaw arrived on Paradise... Prior to the Covenant Crew.

We dont know what David and Shaw found.... but originally they was going to find some remains of a Ancient Race and its Culture and we have to assume it maybe could not be a very population Race.... and so maybe only a small amount remain... and maybe some conflict thousands of years ago.. decimated their once thriving community.

So i doubt Paradise after 2000 years ago, had thousands of Engineers or Related..... but i also dont think it would have ended up with No Survivors at all.

It was hinted that what little remained, may have ended up being destroyed by the Actions of David...

I think they could still run with this and Alien Covenant we will gradually find out the Aftermath of such a event.

We dont know how long it took David and Shaw to get to Paradise... but we know the Covenant ship arrived 10 years after Prometheus in the year 2104 or abouts.. and its a Weyland-Yutani mission and not Weyland and so its safe to assume the Covenant had not set off on its voyage prior to Prometheus.

So the Covenant would have to at the most taken 9 years to get there but we just dont know when the Covenant set off to Paradise, it could have taken a year, two, five years or less.

But what we can assume for sure is that the Engineer Ships would surely be able to get to Paradise Faster than the Covenant or any Human Tech at the time... maybe even faster than the Technologies in 2150+

So its safe to Assume David has been on Paradise for at very least 5 years.... and we dont know what they found when they arrived and how David has kept himself busy within that time..

And what about Shaw?

The movie does seem to have some scenes showing Humanoids facing some kind of disaster or punishment....  are these Humans?  They are all Bald and there are Large Stone Walls with Engineer Writting on them...

Are they Engineers? but this would mean they have Females.... or are they some other Faction/Order related, a missing link between Mankind and Engineers, a earlier Evolutionary Step prior to Mankind... or another Race created by the Engineers.

It would be safe to assume this scene is maybe thousands of years ago... and not as a result of David 8's actions but we cant rule this out.

We need to look at key elements here... elements that Prometheus was setting up...... they are as follows.

*Interpretations that Alien Humanoid Beings, are in the Galaxy who play a role in the creation of life, and they had done so on Earth and their interactions with Mankind are where the stories of Mythos and Religions all stem from.

*Particularly we are looking at Promethean Mythos... which gives us a Hierarchy of Gods, and it specialized in Two Factions... Titan Gods and their offspring/creation the Olympian Gods of which there is the constant theme of Father/Son Creator/Creation and Rebellion of Son/Creation to overthrown their Father/Creator.  The Greek Titanomy Mythos is filled with conflict, betrayal and rebellion and punishment.

Prometheus was a Titan who had betrayed the Hierarchy a number of times, he had aided Zues the leader of the lower caste of Gods the Olympians against overthrowing the other Titan caste..... then he also betrayed Zues in the aid of Mankind.... Prometheus is credited as being behind the creation of Mankind or reasons for our creation and then also giving us knowledge that maybe was forbidden to be given to us....

*We are also looking at the Biblical Events but more connected to those with the Paradise Lost Poem that deals with the Rebellion between God and his first creations (Angels) the Fall of some of these Angels, as lead by the greatest of them Lucifer, they rebelled against Gods rule.... Mankind was created as a replacement..... but Lucifer now Satan... had caused Mankind to Sin against God, by tricking them to gain forbidden knowledge and thus see God as not being the all powerful and only figure to Worship (Adam was after the Forbidden Fruit more committed to Eve)

*Both these have a similar theme, both deal with Subcreation on multiple levels and how Creation will rebel against Creator and see themselves as not being insignificant/in superior to their creators.  We see this is happening with David 8 too....  Both these themes also deal with Punishment.....

I think we need to look at Prometheus/Lucifer to be a similar connection here, and to be loosely explored within the Franchise...

Therefore we have Multiple Hierarchy of Creation.... if we look at it in the following orders....

1) God/Titans/Annunaki

2) Angels/Olympians/Igigi

3) Mankind

4) Androids

But there may be multiple levels than those 4, the caste that is 2nd Titans/Angels etc.... there may be a number of different Races Created than just one.... the same can go for the next Level as in Mankind... is Earth the only place with Humans?  Are there other similar creations created in the Galaxy?

I think so but i doubt we would be touching upon these much....

Looking into the history of Prometheus... what we are shown and what Alien Covenant has shown... and taking the Source comments into account.....

I think Rebellion between Factions/Gods and Hierarchy is what is going to be key and that the Punishment for this is going to be where our Xenomorph connection comes into it.

The Two main Themes, being explored are Prometheus Mythos... and Paradise Lost version of Biblical Events....  here seems Prometheus/Satan are the rebellious instigators and ones responsible for Mankinds Forbidden Knowledge...  Both also get severely Punished for their Transgression against God.

Prometheus is cast down, and tied to a Rock, where the Giant Caucasus Eagle would Eat his Liver, and each day it would grow back and he would suffer this eternal torment...

The Caucasus Eagle  was created by Echidna (Half Woman/Snake) the mother of Monsters including the Hounds of Hell that Guard the Gates to Hades..

Lucifer is also cast out, he faces Two Punishments.... First from his head he gives birth to a daughter Sin who is a Half Woman/Snake who is constantly Pregnant to a host of monstrous hounds, constantly tearing at her insides as they are born..... these Hell Hounds Guard the Gates of Hell.

Lucifer has no knowledge of this Birth of a Daughter..... until he arrives at the Gates of Hell..... his 2nd Punishment is to be transformed into a Horror... he becomes Satan and some of his followers are Cursed and Changed into Serpents.

I think there is a connection between Prometheus/Lucifer and Echidna/Sin   and Prometheus Liver being Torn out over and over and Sins fate of have her entrails torn by the constant birth of Hounds of Hell.

I think a mixture of these elements could make a back bone for how the Xenomorph came to be.... its from the Sources vague clues that drive me to this conclusion...

But time will tell.....

It does back up my theory about the Prometheus Fresco being one that does not Show a Adam and God... but instead the Prometheus and Eagle Fresco....

This Fresco is nearly the same as the Prometheus one... similar pose, similar scar... similar look on the Prometheus/Engineer Face....  The Fresco beaked Creature is maybe a Punishment sent to Punish a Prometheus Engineer or Engineers.....

The result of this eventually maybe leads to something that is the Progenitor to the Xenomorph... In my opinion.

---

The movie had a lot of mystery a lot had evolved from draft to draft as far as reasons for this and that.

There is no single one shoe fits all theory or answers to most of what we saw in the movie, it is very ambiguous indeed.

As for the Beaked Creature... the Fresco is there for a reason, at least it had to had been when they was working on Production... The Organism in that Fresco has some Genetic Link to the Xenomorph, we just cant be 100% sure what this is.... there was a 2nd Fresco we never got to see fully in the movie but here is a close up of it.

This clearly shows a Egg that is similar to the Original Ones, the Creature holding it does have Xenomorph like Hands... but also it could be the creature from the other Fresco instead.

I would say this is the same Creature... as for its connection who knows, but there has to be some connection between this creature in the fresco the Egg in the other Fresco and Experiments on LV-223 that led to the Black Goo and the Deacon Mural....  i would assume this creature predates the Urns Black Goo, and Mural Deacon... i would assume this is the missing link.

The pose of this creature holding a open Egg reminds me of the HR Giger Pose Below..

But this is just a assumption and trying to make a similar connection which i feel shows that HR Giger Created the Egg... and so this creature in the Fresco is the Chicken to the Egg.

I would be keen to point out a alternative HR Giger Face Huger concept for Alien below.... notice this Face Huger is Beaked... and this Face Hugger appears in the Prometheus Mural on the bottom left.

Also of note is prior to Ridley looking at HR Gigers Work and deciding he wanted to use one of his ideas as the basis for the Alien (Necromon IV)  Alien Original Screen play writer Dan O'Banon had done this concept for how he intended the Alien to look

If you look at this creature design and HR Gigers 2nd Face Huger design concepts... you can see both have a similar look to the Prometheus Fresco Creature.

Here is the Mural Room concept for Star Beast which Alien was based off, and Prometheus used many unused ideas from Star Beast that never made it to Alien.

You will notice the Mural shows a Creature being Sacrificed... it looks like it could have Mandible Jaws like a Ant... or O'Bannons Alien design..... or they could even be beaked like HR Gigers 2nd Face Huger.

Note also the Chest Buster is very similar to the Prometheus Trillobite.

Maybe coincidence?  or they are using previous unused concepts... as the Urns are from Star Beast too.

The Trillobite/Deacon was the result of a experiment David had made on Holloway, that led to a event that ended up with either

*Mutated Holoway Xeno-Sperm

*Nano Worms (in the Goo) have to remember Spaights original draft there was no Goo, but tiny Nano Scarabs that did the same principle as the Goo.

Either way one of these had infected Shaws Womb and Fertilized a Egg that led to the Trillobite.

As far as what the Engineers where running from... its not sure.. the sound could just be a red herring... but the Juggernaught did have chest busted Engineers in Cryo Sleep Pods..

But the movie seemed to hint that the Engineers where infected by the Goo that was altering their DNA, and they was attempting to get to the Big Head/Mural Room as the Environment inside maybe prevented the infection from spreading or slowed it down.

Earlier Drafts the running Engineers all jumped down a large Chasm/Well to Sacrifice themselves because they was infected.

If i can go back to the OT....

Here is what we know so far........

*10 years after the failed Prometheus Mission, a Weyland-Yutani Colony Ship the Covenant arrives at a World that the crew/colonist (which is mostly couples) believe would be a Habitable Paradise to begin a new life... a World that has similar conditions to Earth in its primordial days... a Paradise of which there would be no need to Teraform....

*They find a World, that has seen some kind of disaster and its only inhabitant is the surviving Android David 8 from Prometheus.  There could be no sign of Shaw... at least not at first.... 

*The Covenant sets down on Paradise or a Drop Ship does, things soon start to turn bad.... the ship is involved at some point in some kind of explosion. 

*There is something Evolving on Paradise that the Engineers or their Evil Biology is responsible for..... soon people are infected and we see Chest Busters and we get the crew of the Covenant being picked off a few at a time.

*We will see a Organism that is similar to the Original Xenomorph, and it looks like there would be more than one.  These eventually get onboard the Ship, in which case it seems Daniels may sabotage the Ship preventing it from being able to travel anywhere with such deadly Organisms.

*We know there is onboard another David or at least a look-a-like is this a latter Model? is it a Android? Human? or some other less Synthetic Construct... what role does this David play?  does David from Prometheus swap places and pretend to be this Covenants David?  We dont know...

*David and his doppelganger are likely to play a Key Role in the Plot and events of the movie as far as real time year 2104 etc.

*Shaw will appear but it seems only in a minor role, and its unknown if this would be in a Flashback, or if not in what capacity she is in... for example would she actually have any dialog and contact with the crew of the Covenant?

*There is a scene of disaster, and horror maybe a punishment that is happening to some Humanoids who look like they are related to the Engineers and includes Females, this scene could be a Flash Back?    Be it from thousands of years ago.... or from after David interacts with those beings.... i think a Ancient Flashback makes more sense.

*We know there would be a link to Ripley in the movie, and its speculated that its via Daniels somehow... possible relative?

*This is the first of what seems a new Prequel Trilogy that would be showing us the seeds to how/when/why the Xenomorph came to be.... by the time they finish there would be at least another 3-4 hours after Alien Covenant to cover the aftermath and link back to the 1979 Alien movie and what became of the Space Jockey.

@BD good summary again.  The broad stokes are all there, just be interesting to see the details.  And of course the visual presentation.

Huge shout out @Big Dave,@Diz, @The Dude Abides @ Michelle Johnston. Fascinating stuff all of you.

@Big Dave, incredible stuff. I love the photos you posted and elaborated on. Everything you post is just amazing like the looking into the history of Prometheus... "what we are shown and what Alien Covenant has shown... The Rebellion between Factions/Gods and Hierarchy."

I just can't get enough of this. The whole thing about the Space Jockey/Engineer scene in Alien has always drove me crazy. I was more fascinated with the Space Jockey than the actual Alien. I can't believe we have to wait till next August lol

I saw Alien 1 when it came out in the movies so I been waiting a long time.

@ The Dude Abides "The engineers left a being on earth from which we evolved and then they planned to come back to earth with these pods.  Dr. Shaw's parting words still need a response: They created us then they tried to kill us. They changed their minds. I deserve to know why.  We deserve to know why and Ridley won't let that go.  I am sad Dr. Shaw won't play much if any role in this movie but I'd like to think she is not dead, perhaps locked away in the alien horseshoe ship."

I totally agree with you here I hope they keep with this and answer that in some way or form.

 @Big Dave thanks for speaking on what we know thus far in the OT. Excellent summary as @Diz said.