THE MURAL ROOM

BD: Bringing the black goo discussion over here from the Alien re-make thread.  Very good point about the various stages of it, after being exposed to other DNA. Yes very much like a tool with no good or bad intentions.   Left up to the intentions of the user.      

Michelle J: I have read some that you have written in this thread and I will try to write a reply I hope that it is OK.

The room with the big head was an interesting part of the story, it should just have been explained better. Some additional dialogue could have helped a bit.

I think that it makes sense to think of the black goo as a mutagen but I also think of it in terms of biological warfare where it messes with the DNA and so on. You wrote that it contains a Xeno strain but I think that it wasn’t very well explained in Prometheus or at least could have been done better (the Xeno connection).

As far as the deleted scenes go I think that many of them helped to make the movie less confusing. It was stupid to leave them out, I wouldn’t mind a movie that would be half an hour longer than intended if they explain things that we need to know in order for the movie to make sense.

You write about the three challenges that AC will have. I find two of the three things important namely:

1. Make the links to Alien clearer
2. Better characters because most of the characters in Prometheus were bad (including Holloway that you mention in one of your posts)

As far as Milburn and Fifield are concerned I didn’t care about them. To me they were just two goofy MF’s in space that did moronic things. When they died I was like: ”OK two dumb people less”. If that is your reaction when they are people that you should feel a bit bad about when they die and when you react like that then something is obviously wrong.

Some people have videos on Youtube when they discuss Prometheus and as far as I know that stupid behavior of Fifield and Milburn is a thing that many people think is silly. One reviewer called M and F the Scooby and Shaggy of the movie. I never found them to be gay, just stupid.

Diz: I think that Shaw was very unlikeable too, she was just irrational. To be honest I would have preferred if the captain would have survived in some way (I am not sure how that would have been done though) and Shaw would have died because she was just annoying.

@T_C I agree with the view that Peter Weyland is a fool by your definition but he is also caught up in the wider movement of the application of the Promethean Myth "We are the Gods". But back to your point about being the fool which moves me on to 

@T_D 

The notion of foolish (self interested and sinful) behaviour is a thematic quality which applies to so many of the crew they do not have the discipline (Diz) or comradeship of a military group or the quiet logic of a group of scientists. It actually feels like a lot of Wolves from Wall Street chancers, risk takers and arrogant. Pot smokers, drinkers and promiscuous to boot . Indeed they remind me of a Bi polar group off their meds. Now there is to much of this and whenever I discuss Fifield and Milburn I have your strongly held views in mind (which many share). its no excuse but if I remember the script changes the clunky narrative involving them came late. It could have been done a whole lot better.

Mutagen "is a physical or chemical agent that changes the genetic material, usually DNA, of an organism and thus increases the frequency of mutations above the natural background level". To describe as biological warfare the payload of a Juggernaut bound for earth gives context but overall the Engineers are doing more than neutralising mankind they are intending to reorganise and change it. I am sure you agree it is  biological warfare but it is more sophisticated than say anthrax.

T_D: Well Shaw is just being Shaw; I thought that going to another planet without a clear SOP on how to deal with Alien lifeforms was a bit moronic.  Her comment to the contractor about not taking any weapons was bad judgement at best, and total negligence at worst.  The righteousness of your cause does not protect you from evil.  That's what weapons are for. 

On Janek, I had this thought I shared before, about the DNA of Janek possibly combining with black goo from urns, after the collision of the ships.  I mean it's close to the opening scene of engineer DNA combining with other DNA to form new life. Perhaps a bit more ballistic approach, but, yeah.  You could only hope this re-combination would be a bit more noble than Fifield.

As DB stated, the Dark Horse comics explore this a bit, as black goo exposed to Alien terrain creates lush jungle scapes.  So there might be some interesting possibilities on LV-223. 

MJ:  Yeah I mean if you spend a billion or two on something you might want to invest in some crew/crew training to react to events in a way that not only accomplishes the mission but might also reflect positively on the human race.  Compare all these morons to the crew from "The Martian".   

@Diz his crew reflect HIM. i mean imagine, you meet intelligent alien life for the first time ever and instead of saying hello, or a handshake or even just introducing yourself and having a conversation, you just start shouting MAKE ME IMMORTAL I DESERVE IT

Bloody Hell... off topic a bit lol ;)

Where to start... ok the silly things..

They are Plot Devices nothing more, and actually Lindeloffs draft gives better Characters than we see on set.... that has to fall down to the the Actors and Ridley not Lindeloff...

Read Lindeloffs draft and some of Spaights and well some of the Dumb and Dumber moments of Fifield and Milburn are explained...

*They both thought the other had the Map

*Fifield was High as a Kite and he instigated the interaction with the Hamerpede because he was off his face... and he was a unstable person.

Vickers hand picked the crew... she may have tried to save some of her inheritance and picked a flawed crew that was bound to fail.. apart from Crew who affected her well being and Agenda which she picked good members....

Spaights does a better job of her Agenda.

Diz

Member

Posted Jul-19-2016 1:31 PM

TC:  Your approach would be liberal in that you are open to a Ridley interpretation of Biblical events, as depicted here, versus the fundamentalist or arch-conservative, who wouldn't even consider it.  Their strict interpretation of the Bible is of divine beings, not superior races.  Does that make sense? 

not really sorry no. divine beings ARE superior races, are they not?

"Their strict interpretation of the Bible is of divine beings, not superior races.  Does that make sense? "

I understand that but there could be more to it than meets the eye..... The source claims the Engineers are just tools well hints to that, there is a multiple Hierarchy but then there is a greater Power at the Top

They seemed to hint to more than a tale of Engineers who genetically Engineered us... and then Xeno Bio-Weapon.  They claimed that the whole Agenda is more than our Galaxy...  we could be talking Big Things!

I have had a bit to drink and its 29C at night at my home and i am used to working in a 3-4C Environment lol

So forgive me if i forget stuff lol.... but the source hinted at stuff like Terraforming and Worlds and how the Tools to create these can be deadly in the wrong hands just like the creation tool.

So maybe there is something at the top of the chain that is more Devine?

Ridley had mentioned about God, he even said if the Engineers are the forerunners for Life, then what makes Worlds able to be viable to support life so the Engineers can carry out their duties..

Where is the Big Guy in all this....

well to that effect and so maybe yes there is more going on than we are led to see so far.

@Thoughts_Dreams

I dont mean to come across disrespectful... but i think they did try and give clues... just yes its ambiguous and it takes a lot of study and re-watches to make more sense of it all.

I agree Characters where not well done... but then Lindeloffs draft is way better once you read that then the movie makes a bit more sense and then you will ask...!

Why did they not shoot those scenes like that?

Michelle once again i could not say it better..... what you touch upon does seem very similar to what the Source was suggesting.

Anyway far to hot for me... i am going to leave it to when i am much cooler.. right now i am sweating buckets lol and when  i am hot i cant really concentrate.

so i will add to the debate once its not so frickin hot and humid lol

are you in england bigdave?

Flipping dont feel like it Thanatos ;)

Very Humid.... to warm for me lol gone down to 26C in my place now... minus having fans on lol..... cant moan as my heating bills are none existent...

Thoughts_Dreams..

I can now try and address what i was on about now i have cooled down a bit... i never ment no disrespect i was trying to say that the more you watch the more you may understand.

But then i understand not everyone analyzes the movie in depth and if you gave the movie to a general person who saw Alien before a few times but was never a Avid fan... then showed them Prometheus without saying its connected they would maybe not know..

Then when you say they are connected they would maybe still not have a clue...

Few people i know who saw it once.. one twice and only one who saw it twice made a connection... they still overlooked most of the themes...

Just drawn to the Engineers being Space Jockeys who used the Goo to destroy us... but ended up creating a Deacon that killed them and then another at the end that may have gone on to then be the Queen in Aliens lol

Yep.. its true.. so they understood a connection but Totally misread it all... many non major fans would also conclude the Deacon at the end leads to the Xenos in the Alien Franchise.

The movie does not really spoon feed anything... and few things it kind of hints to.. we can counter ask.. does it really Spoon Fed Guarantee it..

And well the answer is No.. its a movie you have to really watch closely and use your brain and own interpretations and then no too people would come to the same conclusions.

But if you have been on here for a while, and watched the movie say 10 times or more and read drafts of the movie then a picture should maybe start to form.

i am in england as well i can't sleep because of the heat

"You wrote that it contains a Xeno strain but I think that it wasn’t very well explained in Prometheus or at least could have been done better (the Xeno connection)."

Yes it could have been done a bit better... but there was enough clues... if more time was spent on the Frescos and a bit of dialect from the crew on that scene or David would have helped.

Ultimately the Movies Cut and Edit was to blame for some of it... the alternative Fifields that was never used, the concept work all had more of a Xeno connection..

The Engineers Face Burn was most likely from the Acid off the Trilobite but we have never been shown the Full Scene as Shot and intended... and the re-shoot is flawed.

But it seems like yes the Burn originally came from the Trilobite.. i have covered this before in depth...  but i can cover it again if anyone wants to.

Too Right... but i say make the most of it as we all moan when it rains again lol been very wet summer so far...

But yeah i prefer the Winter... being used to nights in a chilled environment dont help, being 21 Stone and Hairy dont help and well being 2nd floor apartment thats insulated and heat rises from ground floor dont help

But then £40 a Month yearly dual Fuel Bill and still sometimes i dont use all that is a bonus..

Winter i have heating on for a hour in morning a hour in afternoon and 2 on the night, and sometimes i even turn it off and i am talking when its really cold.. most of the time i dont even need heating on at all even in Winter lol

TC:  Very good point about Weyland and his selfish behavior, which pretty much drives this whole expedition.  As much as Shaw is hated, you could argue she is the only half-way redeemable person in the whole mess.

On Gods n Engineers.  I am not arguing with you; I think a case can be made for "divine" beings being superior races.  But I can also guarantee you my father and grandfather would disagree violently.  You said it yourself, fundamentalist are under-educated, closed-minded, low rent individuals, right? They only believe what the Bible says and nothing else, including Ridley's theory on God n company. 

Again I'm not arguing with you, but I grew up with these people; I can tell you exactly what they think.  I'm not arguing their case, simply saying what they believe.  You don't have to agree or disagree.         

"i'm going to repeat myself here: weyland doesn't understand why death as a phenomenon must exist. he is trapped in his little world of earthly pleasures and 'power' and is blind to certain spiritual things or sufferings"

I have touched upon this before... Weyland is a Scientist, is he spiritual or religious? maybe not...

But there is ONE THEME ONE THING that is True for most of Mankind.. Regardless of how much you dont believe in a Higher Power, God or the Afterlife...

Once you are at Deaths Door and dying or a really close Loved on is at Deaths Door.... or in a serious Accident or in a situation where Death is a possibility.

How we change to start to pray and believe and wish in a God...

Because we are afraid of Death... not so much Death but what happens after...  and so Weyland knowing he has not long left... his life nearly over, all that he has achieved has no effect on how much more he has left.

So he is desperate and hopes and believes that Shaw and Holloway are right.. so that if they are.... then there is a chance for his Salvation..