What if the xenomorph is the original template for the black goo's duplication?

so indeed your comments are bang on the money...

Your correct that they needed to not be as vague as Lindeloffs draft and final movie, but not as spoon fed as Spaights... a Perfect balance between the Two would have been ideal... so it was sadly a missed opportunity.

i only hope the clues they show in Alien Covenant while being a bit ambigious and not spoon fed... i hope they are well thought out and fitting and offer no contradictions.

 

 

Big Dave:

I understand what you are saying but it feels odd if the Xeno would be earlier than the goo, it doesn’t make sense. Having it as a result from some random experiment feels like it would reduce the importance of the Xeno as the ultimate bio-weapon and I don’t like it even if it could be worse. The goo should rather be something that they found and then got the Xeno but to get the goo from Xeno ancestors could be alright because then they would get the Xeno later but I can agree that it would be a part of searching for perfection.

 

With the goo I eventually meant both the sacrificial and the one that Fifield (I think that it was Fifield) slipped into. The chest busted Engineers: maybe that happened because of an earlier version of the Xeno but not from the Xeno itself? This is my guess but I don’t think that they should have used the chest busting at that point but rather moved it into later in the process of getting a Xeno. It was confusing and unnecessary, that is my opinion about that but then maybe it was an earlier/primitive form of chest buster (that would make sense)?

 

Hopefully the Xeno comes after the earlier version and the goo. You probably mean:

 

• Earlier version of the monster gives
• Goo which in turn gives
• Xeno

 

The Trilobite as a human/Xeno mix makes sense. A pro-progenitor could mean what ever if it is Lindelof that answers so I don’t know.

 

Holloway to Deacon, I look at it like this:

 

Holloway gets infected (worm), has sex with Elisabeth so Elisabeth gives birth to a Squid. The Squid lays an egg inside the Engineer which gives a Deacon. My question is how the Deacon grows into a Xeno, I am not sure but then we weren’t seen how the Xeno grew on the ship in Alien (1979) so that is alright. If we don’t complain about it in Alien then we shouldn’t complain about it in Prometheus. Let’s not have any double-standards here.

 

My complaint about the Squid comes from a practical point of view. It is not that the design in itself sucks but rather a practical reason: how are they supposed to move and do so in a way so it doesn’t look comical? This is a serious question or is it supposed to loose a lot of weight all off a sudden like a very rapid self-slimming? Limbs usually have a practical purpose so how does that apply to a fat squid that doesn’t seem like it can move? The Squid is the Jabba the Hutt of the Aliens. :D How is this supposed to make sense? Still the sound effects that they added to that scene makes it seems kind of gross.

 

You can say that the source of the Deacon is the goo but it probably depends on how far back you want to go. Look at it like this: snakes come from earlier reptiles, right? But the earlier reptiles must have come from somewhere so it is the same thing here. How far back would you like to go?

 

The Hammerpedes don’t seem to be very thought through. If they will use them in Alien Covenant then I hope that they will think it through much more to make sense of it. What worries me a bit is that we will getting half-baked explanations again (it could happen) but it seems that they have better writers this time (no Lindelof thanks God).

 

Maybe they knew better what to do with the Hammerpedes before they started to shoot it but it didn’t turn out well in the end? I am not sure if it was the editing or what ever the way it became of them in Prometheus. The only connection to the Xeno was that they both have acid for blood.

 

Exactly, they didn’t really explain why it went down his throat but I think that some details could have been left vague if they would have gotten the whole picture right but they didn’t. Because the whole failed to an extent it makes the messed up details even worse. What didn’t make me care for the fact that the monster went down his throat was that the character was shit so hence the result.

 

When the Hammerpede went down Fifield’s or Milburn’s throat (I don’t remember which one of them that it was) I just look at it as the used that scene for creating disgust not that it was very thought out. Later in the movie you see the snake or what ever get out and into the goo not to be seen again as far as I remember it which makes me wonder if they really had any idea of what to do with that monster at all. In Alien the Xeno has a specific role but the monster that gets out of the throat and into the soup is just there for some seconds never to be seen again so it doesn’t make sense. Of course they could have used that monster for something but as with many other things in Prometheus it was a wasted opportunity if you ask me. Who’s idea was it to make it like that? Hopefully who ever it was won’t have as big input in AC if any at all and if he or she has any input then get better ideas or at least they should oppose the dumb ideas that she or he has. I am not sure if it was Ridley’s ideas or Lindeloff’s or who ever.

 

 

I would prefer if they will have 70 from Spaights and 30 from Lindelof and hopefully they will have writers that will manage to do that in Alien Covenant but I would rather have it explaining a little too much rather too little at all. Let’s say that Prometheus was 80% vague then I would say that they could cut down on that ambiguity so we will get a 50% ambiguity in AC. I use these numbers as examples, I don’t think that the ambiguity level of Prometheus was 80%. Most of the things in Alien (1979) make sense even if there are things there that are not very much explained but it still holds up all these years later. I am not sure if people reacted like this as far as ambiguity of Alien 1979 when it was released compared to how Prometheus was received but at least it seems to hold the test of time or however they say.

 

 

Visually Prometheus was good but story-wise it could have been better and character-wise it wasn’t. Story wise I mean that there were many things that were not explained very well but there were things in it that were interesting (and still are). I hope that those that have written Alien Covenant know how to write a script so we won’t get the same problem again or the opposite problem that everything is overly explained. There is still much time left until the movie gets released so I hope that they will spend that time well so the movie will explain things better than Prometheus did, oh and by the way no more petting space-cobras, thank you very much because that scene frankly was stupid as hell.

 

A lot of what you said is pretty much spot on, and indeed what i have covered a bit.

I think the amount of stuff i write can make people lost within trying to make sense of it and miss out some points.

I was not implying the Xeno is older than the Goo, but then your response then clarifies what you thought i may have meant... which is indeed correct.

The Sacrificial Goo Predates the Xeno... IMO

The Black Goo in those Urns.... either Predates the Xeno too, or comes after the Xeno... but its does not have to come from the Xeno... we have to look at the experiments like the Tree of Evolution.

We cant quite pin point where the Xeno would come in along its Evolutionary Tree.

But we need to think that the Black Goo is just a tool the Engineers used to Evolve Life.

They could say see Man as Perfect... then Sacrifice Man to make Urns that contain Human DNA and use this on various life forms to get a desired result.... which when they use it on a Reptile they end up with a Reptile Human Hybrid.

Maybe they also get a Lion/Human Hybrid....

Then they Sacrifice the Reptile Hybrid to create Urns that hold Human/Reptile DNA and then use this on the Lion/Human Hybrid to create a 50% Human DNA 25% Reptile and 25% Lion

This is just the route i believe that they go as far as experiments.

Somewhere our Human/Reptile/Lion Hybrid obtained Reptile DNA ..... The Xeno in this occasion could be the Human/Reptile Hybrid

They could have not only used the Reptile/Human DNA on the Lion/Human... they could have used it on a Lion to make a 50% Lion 25% Human and 25% Reptile.

Or on a Reptile to make a 75% Reptile 25 X Human or even on a Fish lol  the list goes on and on.

And so my point is the Engineers had used the Sacrificial Goo on something that the Xeno Ancestor DNA comes from but then this Origin DNA could have been used to create number of things and those deemed suitable then had their DNA Sacrificed and stored as Urns to be used to spread its DNA.

What i am saying is i dont see that at some point in the Evolutionary Tree...  The Black Goo was created Once to then create everything Xeno related... it could have been used over and over.

 

 

 

 

Another thing is.

Black Goo was around for over 2000 years ago

The Black Goo in the year 2093 via a series of events lead to Shaws Baby and the Deacon.

If the Black Goo 2000 years ago was used in the same way on a Human, the effects could be similar would they not... only in 2000 years it would have evolved more, or even had other elements added to the chain.

If the Black Goo infected 2000 years ago, Engineer who infected Human Female, who then gave birth to Face Huger type Organism like the Trillobite and this infected a Human.

Its logical to assume... provided Engineers can mate with Human Females or pass via other means infection onto a Human Female.

Then the result would be something similar but different to the Deacon.

I think a lot of people over look the fact that the Black Goo had been around prior to the Prometheus ship and that there was a Outbreak prior too.

We have to ask... where did these come from?  Certainly not after the Shaws Deacon.

And so something related to the Deacon and Xeno had occurred prior.   A event maybe very very related to our Space Jockey... some thousands of years ago.. give or take a few hundred.

If we assume the Xeno and Deacon come from the same source at different times with a few variables.

Then both the Deacon and Xeno can be Re-Created provided the same Source and set of variables are met.

But alas the movie Alien Covenant could be going a different route..... or so it may be leading people to think...

In doing so it would make things complicated to LV-223 and how old the Space Jockey was or seemed... contradict everything Ridley said about the event right up to Alien Covenant.

We have to remember Ridley said eventually the next 3 movies will back into Alien he is coming in from the Back End, Rear... which could mean reverse.

People are taking this as...

Engineers Create Black Goo some 2000 years ago, outbreak kills them off...   no remains of what was (unexplained Chest Busted Engineer Cryo Pods at least).

Prometheus Crew Arrive late 2093, contaminate the Room the Black Goo is stored and one consequence via David 8 experiment is to infect a Human, who passes on something that causes another Human to fall Pregnant with a Hybrid Child... that is removed.... becomes a sort of Face Huger that infects a Engineer and leads to a Deacon Xenomorph

We never find out what happens to this..

But David is off to the Engineers World with more of the Black Goo...

A Human Ship arrives sometime latter and 10 years after David departed LV-223 with his Black Goo... this Human Crew arrive at a world that has a evolving creature the Engineers created.

All hell breaks lose, we see the appearance post year 2104 (ish) of the Xenomorph and we have a few survivors from Covenant and its onto another 2 movies where the survivors of these Organisms eventually lead to the Cargo in Alien.

some 18 years latter...

Maybe this is the route... but i feel its not the case.

The Engineers have History, maybe conflict, LV-223 Engineers created something Evil that must have had a source.... thousands of years ago we have a conflict a horrific Bio-Weapon that comes from a source.

Now the Engineers on LV-223 are all but dead... we dont know what state Paradise is in... how may survived... by the time David arrives and if so how many do after what ever interaction he has.

However there is still history on Paradise Long time prior before David was even created..

Its maybe to early to jump to conclusion that the Xenomorph could never existed prior to the Prometheus Crew and David arriving at LV-426

Big Dave: Alright so then you mean that the goo is older than the Xeno, which makes sense. I agree because there could have been things before the Xeno or after so it is like a long line. The goo seems to be like a tool for creation that the Engineers chose to use for what ever reason so yes it could have been used many times.

 

What if the goo looses its effect the more you use it? I am not sure if this is correct it is just a though really. For example: a bike gets less effective the more you use it (the tires for example) so maybe this goes for the goo also so they (the Engineers) need to update it, like you do with computers. You seem to say that they have evolved it but what would happen if they didn’t? I wonder if the Engineers thought about this at all.

 

Maybe the goo was around before the Prometheus mission (it seems to logically hold up) but I am not sure about the outbreak.

 

I don’t think that AC should contradict too much of what happened in Prometheus or what Scott has said. Maybe it would confuse people if it did or make people conclude that Scott likes to say things just to mess with people while in the end he does completely different things than what he has implied earlier.

 

The Deacon and the Xeno should logically come from a similar source since they seem tied to each-other genetically (like cousins maybe).

 

What happens or what not I don’t think that they should contradict too much of what they have aid and what we saw in Prometheus. Discussing things in fine but you got to have some continuity and consistence along the way otherwise you almost need to invent something totally new every time and there might be a risk that these things might not be very connected to each-other logically speaking.

 

“Prometheus Crew Arrive late 2093, contaminate the Room the Black Goo is stored and one consequence via David 8 experiment is to infect a Human, who passes on something that causes another Human to fall Pregnant with a Hybrid Child... that is removed.... becomes a sort of Face Huger that infects a Engineer and leads to a Deacon Xenomorph.“

 

That is how I look at it, if they would have wanted it to be something totally different then they would have done it different, right? What ever they want it to be shouldn’t be very far from what we see on screen because if it is then the movie fails in a way.

 

I would like to know how the humans lead to the cargo in Alien (1979). Would that be human beings that have turned into Xenos from the nasty experiments that the Engineers did? Maybe this could be the case but I don’t know but at least it is a route that they could take. This is interesting: they kill humans to make monsters that would kill more humans and in a way it would make sense.

 

“Its maybe to early to jump to conclusion that the Xenomorph could never existed prior to the Prometheus Crew and David arriving at LV-426.“

 

Maybe, but I hope not.

Indeed i think they will be giving us more clues, and even if they dont connect LV-223 they would not need to provided they showed the Black Goo David has with him and how it could be used.

The Outbreak is a confusing scene, because it raises the question of how did the Engineers get infected as it seemed that way and references to Ebola again seems like a outbreak like a Viral Infection.

So we had to wander how do the Engineers get infected, because surely they have Safeguards, and  Prometheus showed us TWO kinds of infection.

1) Fifield and Worms... which is via contact with the Black Goo Externally...  (Weyland File came along to suggest this method was via inhalation....  which contradicts what we saw in various ways.... including how David said it was not in the Air... but maybe they could run with this as a way the Goo infects.

2) By Oral Ingestion (Holloway) we have to note this infection was via the contents in the ampoules and so we have to wander does the Weapon have Two Parts which mix which give he Black Oil like Goo that leaked from the Urns.

Regardless, we have to consider number 2 as being difficult as how does the Engineers all end up consuming the Mutagen?  Unless someone spiked their drinks or some other element (something to do with the breathing apparatus?) that would lead to them being infected.

If we assume the infection is viral, do we assume the Goo can not pass person to person other than via close contact and exchange of bodily fluids.  Maybe like AIDS does...  we could also mention Ebola... but there is a chance Holloway may had passed it onto others if thats the case.... but then we need to look at how short the events of Prometheus was and so anything he could have passed on may have taken a while before symptoms began... by which time before this the crew all died anyway... Apart from Shaw..

But i dont think the infection can spread like this.

So when we look at the supposed Spore Leak Plot for AC and the Weyland Filre about Airborne...

Then indeed the Black Goo could maybe be used in a way to release it airborne, or even in some supply of chemical or liquid that the Engineers would need to intake or consume..

Be like infecting the drinking supply on a Space Ship or the Oxygen Tanks.

some Sabotage like this could account for the outbreak...

But i dont think we would ever really get a in depth explanation as to how the outbreak occurred.

I think you have grasped the concept of the Black Goo now, and indeed the Black Goo in those Urns could certainly predate the Xenomorph.

If it does not, then there could be a similar substance that predates them.

As i think the Black Goo is the result of the Sacrificial Goo used on something related to the Xenomorph.

If the Engineers captured Jonesy the Cat, and used the Sacrificial Goo on him... then in theory the broken down material could be collected and Weaponized like the Black Goo to make  some Urns that contain Cat DNA and when used on say Humans would turn them into THUNDERCATS lol