Versions Of Humanity

I hope and I have a feeling that Ridley is keeping one of these versions of humanoid or possibly "other type" of being in reserve. In one of his interviews he indicated that there was something that was a higher power involved in creation of humanity and it wasn't the engineers.... I feel it would be awesome if in the next film he introduced them and whatever new cosmic terrors they bring with them... Having something out there like that keeps the ancient cosmic mystery and horror element.... It would be awesome if although they were creators they were also equally evil and disturbing... Fits this film universe well, perhaps David's actions and experimenting have awoken them or called to them somehow

@Grinning & Dropping Linen

Me too, I don't want to know all the surprises all at once. The 'Higher Powers' I am likewise quite curious about.

My theory is the Higher Powers have created the Types of Humanity, and are only stepping in when they feel the need to 'adjust' things, but overall have set in motion that the Types of Humanity shall contest vs each other and in the end only the one most fit and best shall ascend and survive.

similar to Babylon 5 perhaps? one ancient race, older than the rest, created us younger species and watch from a far but when one of their creations steps out of line such as the engineers/ us playing god, they step in and bring their wrath down upon us? 

This is a bad wild but maybe one are the yautja(The predator)Thanks to the Fire and Stone series being Canon,they are indeed part of the Alien universe,but that's up for debate in my opinion.

I have no problem with them being in the same universe. both r fox and I don't see why it wouldn't be possible for weyland corp to be aware of both species. I would rather the 2 species have never come across each other yet. my guess is they will look into another AVP in some form but id rather see it in space, in the future and something where there is more a level playing field. to believe humans can survive a yautja hunt? yes. to believe they could survive a xeno infestation? ok. but to survive both is harder. if the yautja had no idea of the xeno and when they attacked humans they were taken by surprise, that would give the humans a better chance, imo.

I prefer both to exist in seperate film universes. What makes the Alien movies great is far different than what makes the Predator movies good, both thematically and tonally. The Alien films work best when you don't see much of the creature, it's shadowy and it plays out like a gothic horror. Ratcheting up suspense and the sense of foreboding, playing havoc with your fear and imagination..... While Predator is a bit more bombastic, and not so subtle. His kills and weapons are on full display and it's more like an action film with suspense when done right. I'm not saying they couldn't do both species justice in same film, but just in my opinion the elements that make each work don't work well in the same film, and it ends up a mess. I would rather they leave them seperate because their attempts at blending both , tarnish both film franchises .... They just don't work, the things that work in Alien just don't work well with the themes and structure of what works best for Predator

grinning, I do agree at least for a while both should be left separate. let ridley, blomkamp, black and whoever else restore these truly great franchises. but given the right script and director theres no reason we cant get a better instalment of avp. the avp and avpr movies were done cheaply and quickly. they have left a sour taste in the fans mouths but the concept of the 2 in the same universe works. we just need a director who can mould the 2, give us pure horror when the xeno is involved and a bit more faster paced when the yautja is on his own

Not sure of any interviews that confirm this 4-5 Humanoids...

I think the scope is far greater than this....   I did mention 4-5 Generations of Humans well Mankind 2 years ago near enough as this is what the Source i had who had information on the then Prometheus 2 draft (October 2014) had claimed.

That we need to consider Humans well Mankind as of now... as the 4th or 5th Generation and we did not evolve from Apes but that Engineer DNA is linked in this process.

They also claimed that Mankind had been to that System before which i assumed they mean Zeta 2 but could have meant where Paradise is, but seems they was on about LV-223/426

They claimed that Biblical Punishments are events that had happened in the past but not directly in context to our Generation.

Those beings above the Engineers have Technologies that can Manipulate Worlds, not only as far as Geometric as far as Core of Worlds to cause Seismic Activity and Volcanic and so to change the Surface of Worlds... But also they can effect the Climates and bring about Floods and Ice Ages and even Massive Storms including Lighting Storms... and these are all used to Terra-from Worlds...  but they also can and have been used as Re-set Switches to Wipe out and Start Again...

This Technology can prove Dangerous

so this from the Source did hint that indeed Engineers and beings on Paradise are technically perhaps earlier ancestors and indeed that Humanoid Races have been wiped out over and over by these beings at the Top of the Hierarchy

Ridley Scott made some comments to those who was on Set in the Summer of 2016,  that Humans are one of many various forms of our kind.

This indeed could seem as a back up to what the Source claimed, but also it could mean the beings at the Top of the Hierarchy have created many Humanoid Species throughout the Galaxy. 

Could Predators had been one of these?

I think its something they could explore in a expanded universe as far as a Alternative one... that maybe we will never see in a Movie....

But as far as where they are going i dont think we will directly get any clues or signs that put Predators in the same Universe as Alien as far as the Prometheus ==> Alien Canon.

Indeed AVP Universe had potential had they stuck to the Plot of the Video Games and so it was set in the year 2150+

All good posts and statements guys, Thank-you for contributing on this topic of mine! :)

Here's where I got the 4 or 5 Versions of Humanity from:

"We were also told that this isn't the first time Humans (or another Humanoid within the chain) have been to this planet (Paradise) in Alien: Covenant, which was confirmed in the latest trailer when Demián Bichir's character noticed Human vegetation on the planet's surface. Humans, Engineers and 3-4 other iterations of "Humanoid" beings have all been created and seeded throughout many universes. The Engineer/Alien debacle is not limited to our own Galaxy."

http://www.alien-covenant.com/news/engineers-did-not-create-humanity-or-xenomorph

As for the Predators, I'd prefer they stay out of the ALIENverse, at least for a while, and if/when brought in, that it's done in a more 'ALIEN' style than monster-mash as we've seen in the past.

That said, I have a literary work of my own that I hope Fox will License and make Canon. It's built solidly on Sir Ridley Scott's manner of handling the ALIENverse, and explores some potentials that haven't been addressed yet.

BWW,

I found something very interesting in your quote.  "seeded throughout many universes."  This allows for Alien 5 where Ripley, Hicks, and Newt are still alive.

Also speaking of 4-5 iterations of humanoids.  There are Humans, Angels, Nephilim, and God.  

Rick

Ty for commenting! Yeah is sounds like Sir Ridley Scott is going to be taking us on quite a 'tour' as things sound to be getting quite a bit more expansive regarding the ALIENverse! :D

Alternate Reality theiry, yeah, Hicks and Newt could well be alive. However, they might be just using the word 'universes' to refer to Galaxies...more than a few times in sci-fi have we heard in interviews where people use the word 'galaxy' to refer to star systems and such.

Also, as to ALIEN 3's dubious Canonicity, Hicks and Newt might well be alive in the Primary Timeline...

Im all for a bit of evolutionary backstory (Xenos, Engineers & humans) leading up to and into Alien, but as long as it doesn't detract from the main story...the Xenomorph. Benevolent Creators, and alternate timelines muddle from the story, it is good enough without the need for over-cooking it. It could also make the existing films look like a step backwards with an overly complex prequel story. 

Personally I like the bleak godlessness of Alien 3. The mystery of why any god/creator/ancient race would allow this violent, unmerciful survivor of a species to exist adds to the hopelessness of ever believing it can be defeated. The prisoners of Fury 161 looked to God for salvation for their past sins, but got a Xeno instead. 

Blackwinter-witch, those living on Paradise could most certainly be another type of humanity and different from the Engineers on LV-223. Great topic.

The way each (LV-223 Engineers and Paradise residents) live on their respective planets is vastly different.

IRaptus

"Im all for a bit of evolutionary backstory (Xenos, Engineers & humans) leading up to and into Alien, but as long as it doesn't detract from the main story...the Xenomorph. Benevolent Creators, and alternate timelines muddle from the story, it is good enough without the need for over-cooking it. It could also make the existing films look like a step backwards with an overly complex prequel story. 

Personally I like the bleak godlessness of Alien 3. The mystery of why any god/creator/ancient race would allow this violent, unmerciful survivor of a species to exist adds to the hopelessness of ever believing it can be defeated. The prisoners of Fury 161 looked to God for salvation for their past sins, but got a Xeno instead."

I simply agreed about Alt-realities as to acknowledge the fact that in physics, such would allow Newt and Hicks to remain alive.

I do NOT ever want to see any Alternate-Reality/Time-Travel hopping/involvement I agree with you that such would muddle things, detract from the story and generally bollux things royally. This is ALIEN, after all, and not Star Trek. :D

ALIEN 3 has it's merits, it suffered from an extremely troubled production, with 'too many cooks' syndrome.

The bleak godlessness, yes, that's the 'flavour' that I think so many of us enjoy about the ALIENverse.

Ingeniero

TY for commenting & the compliment!

The architecture between the buildings on LV-223 and Paradise, good point, are quite different, and TY for the pics!!

This information about the 4-5 Generations is not something Ridley Scott has mentioned, this was information the Source i had gave me TWO years ago, well bit longer.

Which Ridleys Interview Recently kind of supports. Where he said as far as Mankind we are one of many forms, when alluding to those Superior Beings as far as the Head Statues in Alien Covenant.

Also on the Topic of those Mounds in Prometheus... i have a made a connection which is in this TOPIC

But i will post the Images here...

I can see how these Buddhist Stupa Buildings look similar and also the Dome in Alien Covenant has 4 Outfacing Statues that are sitting and holding a Bowl... which is much like the Buddha Offering Statues

These are in place of where a Stupa has its 4 Torana which are Gateways to the Stupa and a symbol of Teachings and Blessings of the Buddha 

Hi Blackwinter Witch, sorry if my post came across argumentative, it wasn't my intention. I have great faith in Ridley Scott keeping the ship on path, he'll find a way to tie everything together nicely.

An alt-timeline could solve the Alien 3&4 -->> Alien 5 divergence for all us people that need closure, myself included lol.

I do like the idea of different versions of humanity throughout the universe, some good, some bad? Do you think Synthetics could be another type? Someone suggested that WY could be governed by synths, maybe they are pushing some type of synthetic AI agenda? 

Yeah you are correct about Alien 3 having too many cooks. damn shame too, you can see the potential in that film it just never hit the mark. But for what it is I still enjoy it, it gave us the Runner Alien, which is an awesome little beast.

If they are to do an Alien 5 sequel I'm interested to see what Blomkamp can do. His films tend to have that bleak futuristic dystopian feel to them which suits Alien. It'll be polished, glitzy and over-produced but he has a good vision for his films and hes not afraid to be bold. 

As far as OT here is what the Source claimed as of March 2015

*We are the 4-5th Generation of our kind.

*We should not look at Evolution like Darwin has that we Evolve from Apes, but that indeed Engineer DNA is tied with out Ancestry instead.

*Mankind has been to that System before (i assume either LV-223 or where Paradise is).

*Biblical Events such as Punishments by God like the Great Flood etc are actually events that happened in context to the Plot but to not literally consider these Biblical Events had been towards our Generation.

And so when we read Ridleys Comments from a few weeks back “The Egyptians were obsessed with afterlife, so they built their whole culture around afterlife. I think it’s very interesting… are we one of many? Of course we are. We’re one of many, many variations. And that’s something now they’re saying is entirely feasible. So I like to open up that door.”

I think this kind of does tie in to what was said...

I also think they are taking us to a deeper story as far as Creation and it will defer from Aliens and Queens and Ripley, because you cant surely make 6 more movies about Xenomorphs... the beast is already Cooked... and unless they show different forms and similar created Horrors... then i cant see how more than 2 more movies would be needed before the Beast is totally Cooked.  More so than those Engineers on Paradise lol

I think there is more to the story, but they are going to tease Aliens first so as to engage those fans who switched off when it came to the Prometheus Engineers and Creation Plot.

As far as Alien 5 goes... i think a number of its ideas will indeed be carried over for a sequel to Aliens.. that may be considered a alternative line of events after said movie..

But its unlikely this would see any day of light before Ridley completes at least 2 more Alien Sequels.

So i am not sure we will see Ripley in the Alien 5 it depends really how long it is before we get it, Age is Against Miss Weaver but Age is just as much Against Ridley Scott and Micheal Fassbender (as do Androids Age?)

So Ridley will want to cover his prequels that will have David/Walter, and Shaw/Daniels in them before even considering a Alien 5 movie.

Which means a Alien 5 may have to be about a older Ripley, maybe as Cameo with some CGI.... but mainly be about the passing of the Torch to Newt... if they indeed wish to go similar Route to Alien 5 plans.

I cant see a Aliens alternative sequel (Alien 5) being worked on any time in the next 5 years.

Nice Topic. :) I've also been thinking about this for quite a while.

But how many sentient species in the alienverse do we know of, given that the Alien movies, A:OotS, A/P/P:FaS is considered canon?

"Gods":

Extremely advanced entities. Obviously able to manipulate things on planetary level. Maybe even on a star system level. Apparently also able to create life/races as they see fit. Seemingly their creations are meant to compete with each other.

Engineers:

Advanced species. Existence hinted through ancient human cultures. Physical evidence found on "Paradise", LV-426 and LV-223. Advanced race created by the Gods. Able to seed life on planets. Extinct and believed to have been in the state of war when their demise occurred.

Humans:

Creators unclear (for me at least). Probably the gods. Share over 90 % of their DNA with the Engineers. Engineers planned humanitys eradication with bio-weapons but were stopped, for unknown reasons.

Spacejockey:

Advanced species, Physical evidence found on LV-426. Said to be Engineers despite the obvious body size difference. Rumored to be a sister race to the Engineers. 

Yautja (Predator, A/P/P:FaS):

Advanced species. Physical evidence found on several occasions. Unknown origin. Creation of the Yautja by the Gods can't be excluded. Rumored cultural ties to the Xenomorph (Hunting).

Dog-Aliens (A:OotS):

Advanced species, Physical evidence found on LV-178. Origins unknown. Possibly extinct. Proof strongly suggests a fight between the Dog-Aliens and the Xenomorphs.

Beaked Alien (leaked picture):

Next to no information about this species. Some  speculate that the "Beaks" are the Dog-Aliens or vice versa.

I think that @Grinning & Dropping Linen nailed it. I hope it plays out exactly as stated in his comment. I couldn't have said it better. Bravo I say to you my friend! 

@BMacReady

Thank you very much, fingers crossed this film universe goes in a great direction and May 19th is just the first step 

I agree, Alien and Predator work on their own. Their themes and settings are different.

Nonetheless I like the idea of AvP (even if it seems to be  kind of a heresy here ;) ). But I don't like the AvP-movies, they're a mess of wasted potential.

In the AvP-Movies the Yautja are depicted as almost unbeatable. Wich they aren't when you consider P1 and P2. In both cases a single human defeated a Predator. Predators are tough and strong for sure but not supernatural. All it needs clever writing.

If A:C should go the way with multiverses or worse with time-travel it'd be dead for me. I like neither. For me, especially time-travel, is just a cheap and lazy way to fill holes or cover a lack of ideas. 

IRaptus

"Hi Blackwinter Witch, sorry if my post came across argumentative, it wasn't my intention. I have great faith in Ridley Scott keeping the ship on path, he'll find a way to tie everything together nicely.

An alt-timeline could solve the Alien 3&4 -->> Alien 5 divergence for all us people that need closure, myself included lol.

I do like the idea of different versions of humanity throughout the universe, some good, some bad? Do you think Synthetics could be another type? Someone suggested that WY could be governed by synths, maybe they are pushing some type of synthetic AI agenda? 

Yeah you are correct about Alien 3 having too many cooks. damn shame too, you can see the potential in that film it just never hit the mark. But for what it is I still enjoy it, it gave us the Runner Alien, which is an awesome little beast.

If they are to do an Alien 5 sequel I'm interested to see what Blomkamp can do. His films tend to have that bleak futuristic dystopian feel to them which suits Alien. It'll be polished, glitzy and over-produced but he has a good vision for his films and hes not afraid to be bold."

I appreciate the apology, but it's not needed as I did not find your reply argumentative in the least. I quite enjoyed it!! I quoted' you so as to be able to better reference your points, and I apologize if my tone or phrasing came across as defensive, such was not my intent, and language gets kind of 'unclear' at times, as we all know, right? :)

I see we agree on Ridley Scott and have faith in his ability. :) I suspect Ridley Scott might just 'bypass' 3 & 4, and 'Re-align Canonicity'. That would keep things on-track, offe the closure the fan-base needs, and do away with clutter and continuity problems. I guess we'll have to wait like kids at Christmas morning to find out. :D

Synthetics and such...Man, GOOD question!! I don't think W-Y is governed by Synthetics, but the Board likely makes a lot of decisions with Synthetic input. It's just a 'gut' feeling I have, so I'm prepared to be totally wrong. I don't know if Synthetics classify as another version of Human, as they're not a species, as they have zero ability to reproduce on their own and such, and  and have very little to zero ability to Evolve on their own. BUT, depending on how you ascribe 'Human' well, they are a valid contender. However, if we are referring strictly to the versions created in the ancient past, then of course 'no'. The assorted Versions of Human, well 'Good' and 'Bad' are relative, but I suspect at least one version outside of ourselves will be aggressively hostile to the other versions. Again, just a 'gut' feeling.

ALIEN 3 was a Textbook example of 'Wasted Potential'. If there'd been support instead of kibbitzing and such, it would have been a really good, possibly great film. I DID like the Pursuit-Alien idea, it was a new, very dangerous, and interesting variation!!

Blomkamp, I LOVED District 9, and I am CURIOUS to see his work with ALIEN!! :D It's really hard to wait for all the sci-fi-horror goodness!!

BigDave

"As far as OT here is what the Source claimed as of March 2015

*We are the 4-5th Generation of our kind.

*We should not look at Evolution like Darwin has that we Evolve from Apes, but that indeed Engineer DNA is tied with out Ancestry instead.

*Mankind has been to that System before (i assume either LV-223 or where Paradise is).

*Biblical Events such as Punishments by God like the Great Flood etc are actually events that happened in context to the Plot but to not literally consider these Biblical Events had been towards our Generation.

And so when we read Ridleys Comments from a few weeks back “The Egyptians were obsessed with afterlife, so they built their whole culture around afterlife. I think it’s very interesting… are we one of many? Of course we are. We’re one of many, many variations. And that’s something now they’re saying is entirely feasible. So I like to open up that door.”

I think this kind of does tie in to what was said...

I also think they are taking us to a deeper story as far as Creation and it will defer from Aliens and Queens and Ripley, because you cant surely make 6 more movies about Xenomorphs... the beast is already Cooked... and unless they show different forms and similar created Horrors... then i cant see how more than 2 more movies would be needed before the Beast is totally Cooked.  More so than those Engineers on Paradise lol

I think there is more to the story, but they are going to tease Aliens first so as to engage those fans who switched off when it came to the Prometheus Engineers and Creation Plot."

REPLY BEGINS ***************

GOOD points!!

My theories (which I am prepared to have proven wrong) are that while our DNA is linked/tied to Engineers, they didn't create us, but they are a 'Cousin Species' to Homo Sapiens, in the same manner as Neanderthanesis was.

'Mankind' having been to the system in Covenant, could mean all the Versions of Humanity. So, various Versions have over time visited it and such, now it's Homo Sapiens's turn to drop by.

I'm guessing that the Biblical Cataclysms could have referred to events that happened on other worlds to other versions of Humanity that more advanced Versions spoke about to Homo Sapiens, akin to: "Hey little bro, be good or the big guys will slap you down hard like they did us."

I agree they are taking us into a deeper story than just dealing with Xenos, Queens and Ripley, a MUCH deeper story that will involve different generations as the galaxy is VAST and there's a LOT of history and such for Homo Sapiens to stumble into and become a part of.

Heh, 'Engineer Flambe`'...it's what's for dinner. :D Agreed, there is SO much more, and that the Xenos and such are the 'Invitation' to re-engage with the franchise.

BigDave

I agree with all your points regarding ALIEN 5. The logic you present, it's solid, and yeah, time is NOT in anyone's favor regarding casting and such, and I hope you're right about it being the 'passing of the torch' to a new generation.

Tiwaz

TY! :)

As for Sentient species and Canon...the whole Canonicity question is going to change as Ridley Scott has written a 'Rulebook' for the franchise and FOX is working on 'cleaning up' the franchise. So, man, I dunno...

You make a good point on the Space Jockey, and one I hope R. Scott addresses. I'm wondering if the Space Jockey wasn't some kind of BioSynthetic pilot, built to 'meld' into the control chair, or just built into it as a permanent 'component'...in a way (referenced merely as an example) the Hybrids were aboard the Basestars in the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica.

The 'Gods'...as yet my mind just can't get that far, as it's focussed in on the Versions of Humanity ponderings. Like you, I am very curious about them! :)

I want to say 'Thank-you' to you all for your comments and great thinking about the various points and such!

I'm a Writer, trying to become one, and between R. Scott and the convos here you all really help keep my creative engines ticking over nicely. Part of the problem with writing, is you end up staring at things 'too closely' and a little External view can break your mind loose from being 'stuck'.

You guys don't realize how much that means, how helpful it is to be able to have fun and intelligent and thought-provoking/perspective-altering discourses with you!!

I am glad you enjoy my topic and look forward to our future bandying about of various points and such while we all wait for 'Christmas Morning' on May 19th whan Santa Ridley drops by with some eggs... :D