SPOILER ALERT- Faris

Flaws will be found by those who want to find them. I think people are more sceptical/cynical these days. I am no different but will just go with it for a movie I feel confident in. Poking at flaws doesn't mean hate- it shows you care and are paying attention imo. This forum wouldn't exist without sentiments like that.

JonesRules TY! :)

dk

JonesRules

I looked up the Trailer for ALIEN way back when, before I was born :) Man...they still hold up and scare you even though I've seen ALIEN many times...maybe the industry needs to learn from the past?

BWW- back to the concept of less is more?

There is a thing called human nature. And there is another thing called denial. I would compare Faris' reaction with people reactions towards infectious diseases in the real world, like HIV for instance. You get folks who would discriminate hiv positive individuals even though they expose themselves to the virus and might be infected themselves. You even get some who would try to get other people infected... There could be other reasons, a rivalry, maybe something like in the movie "The Descent" (whoever watched it will know what I'm talking about) 

joylitt Interesting point indeed. Mine is a bit different coming from both a medical and military background so maybe I sound too harsh. I need to remember that this is for everyone. Although I am sure people from different backgrounds will pick it apart from their own... particular........idioms.

joylitt good point

dk

'Less is more'...yes Exactly!!!

Blackwinter-witch I am a grumpy cynical f&ck and think whipper snappers might now say "Less is more- what a bore!" I wanted to make the rhyme before they beat me to the punch.

I agree with dk. what get with this group that has found this planet come off as way unexperianced and you can. Also with the so called Colonial marines I would think they would scout/recon first than go get the captain and the scientists to then explore. But it could be that to them it was like going to work everyday and got comfortable with the routine. And I think David was assessing the situation.....learning.

Hmmmm, remember the last supper? Karine (Carmen Ejogo) is kind of slagging off Tennessee and Faris as loud and drunk, kinda looking down her nose at them.  I think there must be at least some tension between crew members that even though they act professional and get along for work, I think people who don't really like each other will not be that friendly.  Hence I imagine that Faris knows Karine looks down on her and I think that may contribute to her decision to lock the medbay door.  She's probably thinking quarantine, but if it was her best friend, she probably would let her out, but it is someone that has had bad blood (!) with her....

I think we'll get a few more ideas on how the characters relate to each other in the first part of the movie which establishes them doing their jobs, partying etc....

Qubism I considered that and you might be right. On the other hand they are supposed to be professionals- the best- to be on this huge (expensive) mission.

I understand that is a movie, but I take issue with Faris based only what is shown. You save those whom are saveable and work out the personal stuff later. Two people against a critter is better odds than one on one- that should be factored into the survival equation imo. 

Oh yeah, in the ideal world, but of course, it's a only a movie :-)

If all the characters acted perfectly and rationally at a Spock-like level, there would be no movie. I feel the same way about Prometheus.  Also some people really do behave unexpectedly under extreme stress.

Qubism Understood. I can hyper analyse any movie. I enjoy them but like to make these mental notes because it is fun to me- tertiary entertainment to the main event so to speak.

dk

Ah, well, I think you managed such a claim :) But I do still agree that 'less is more' :)

Been thinking about the timeframe and environment impacts on the people, and the planet looks like Earth, then throws some unbelievable horrorshow at them, so you'd have cognizant-disconnect potential right there. Also, they went poking about, all was OK...so far as we know, THEN people start dying in unthinkably awful ways, so you'd have the mind trying to go into Denial mode as someone stated, and given how fast the people went from ill to OMG, very little time to cope.

Yes, Qubism. There is obviously a rivalry. However, with so many things going on in the film, who knows if there will be time to explore those issues. But besides the social interactions, I have the impression that, given the fact that Ridley Scott was originally inspired by "Paradise Lost" and the themes of the clash of Good and Evil and Man's fall from grace, there is probably more at stake. As if each member of the crew were put to a test to prove what they are made of. Faris did something bad, then tried to correct that but it was too late. Whoever the judge of these flawed characters and their actions might be, everything seems to be happening for a reason, and there is for sure someone who is taking note: the A.I., for it is David, and maybe Walter, who will be judges and executioners either by themselves or channeling a higher power, bringing destruction upon humanity and their forefathers.

Faris acted selfishly and cowardly. A common human behaviour in other words. Not unlike Harvey from Sunshine who also thought about his own survival. This makes for more realistic character behaviour and also makes the film better, as opposed to the shallow stereotypes from Prometheus. 

Faris was also clearly so shocked and beyond stressed that she couldn't put 2 and 2 together; she freaked out and it was displayed by fantastic acting. Unlike Shaw who could probably endure anything thrown at her and still seek for answers, with a smile and naive Bambi eyes.

Self preservation, basic human instinct. Logically she was following protocol but on a basic and human level she was saying "fuck this for a banter" and getting the hell out of there.

After she calmed the flight part of the primal "fight or flight" she realised her mistake and returned with the shotgun to fight.

Lack of formal training would explain this, in the context, and so it'll not detract too badly from the movie imo.

That's exactly how I saw it too 

Different positive and negative personality traits are on display in the scene, like empathy (Karine) or the lack of it (Faris). Selfishness and unselfishness. I the case of Karine, my only criticism would be that once she is locked up, instead of cussing at Faris she should have told her: "Look, you have blood on your face, you are no less contaminated than me, please open the door". Anyway, the characters' behaviors make much more sense than in "Prometheus".

@ranting xeno

"Lack of formal training would explain this, in the context, and so it'll not detract too badly from the movie imo."

I wouldn't want any Frontline/exploritory crew that wasn't 100% trained for chaos.  100% trained to mount the firearm correctly and to know not to shoot whatever the hell was in that tank that exploded.  She should have been in cryo.

Not sure why any non-operators would have been on the lander.  Not sure why any humans would have been on the lander.  Unless of course, we learn that Walter falsly claims that the situation is safe on the surface.  But I will ignore these things for the fun of it.

 Didn't all these covenant folks watch the movie (or read) "War of the World's" or "Outbreak", it's the contagion that gets you LOL. 

It looks like the door breaks Faris' ankle, she pulls her foot out, then the door is able to shut before the neomorph hits it.

You can tell the effects from the broken ankle (oh, those are so fun) when she is running down the hall falling into things and when she collapsed near the guns (ha, yes, guns).

She did go back and open the door and try to save Oram's wife though in regards to being selfish ensuring the same outcome for both of them.

To those who feel Faris' behavior was odd, unnatural, a plot hole, or unethical, I'd ask you to consider that none of this is the case and Ridley nailed this. Here's why.

As others have stated, the crew probably didn't have a lot of training for this kind of situation. Remember, it appears the Covenant had a planned migration underway. They were traveling to a surveyed planet. They knew what to expect and were probably trained according to what was known about their destination.

It seems the film is setting up to portray their detour to paradise (by Oram's questionable judgement) as a big "no no" in the eyes of their superiors back home. This crew is not trained to survey new worlds (and possibly encounter new viruses) they are trained to settle a place that has already been confirmed as a safe bet. Oram seems to have some romanticized views on exploring the majesty of creation (and probably believes his faith will protect him and his crew).

Faris first realized something was wrong with this decision once Karine called in that she was heading back the drop ship and that it was because their crew mate was infected. It was in this moment Faris probably got a sinking feeling about Oram's decision and the weight of that started to hit her.

Next she get's sprayed in the face with blood by an "infected" persons spontaneously erupting back (an infected person who she just watched vomit blood by the way). That would have taken anyone's anxiety to the next level.

As others have said, panic sets in. She's suddenly realizing that they need the captain back immediately. She wants, someone, anyone to come and take control of the situation. Then while seeking comfort from her husband, she hears Karine calling for help and runs back to see if she's ok. Karine then faces Faris with a leadership decision that she doesn't want to make. Opening the door.

Faris at this point is losing it, she doesn't know what to do. She just wants Oram to get back and call some shots. Then the backburst happens.

Here's what demonstrates that Faris was NOT betraying Karine. She isn't running away out of fear for her own life. She's trying to save Karine. She realizes it's not safe to open the door without a weapon so she retrieves one. She then goes back (for the purpose of rescuing Karine) but in her panic (much like Karine) doesn't think about blood being a slip hazard. She slips, and everything goes wrong.

It's as simple as that.

And yes, when the movie is released, there will be plenty of trolls criticizing this scene just like they criticized Shaw and Vickers running from the rolling Juggernaut. No actual processing of how irrational people can get in a panicked situation. They'll have that "well I would have just handled it this way" attitude. This kind of misplaced criticism is almost inevitable when presenting realism to a culture that is used to movies that aren't realistic (and that do a lot of spoon feeding for that matter).

QES- If the destination was safe, why the heavy weapons? Those are hardly hunting rifles.

She could have saved Karine by taking her with her when she left in the first place. Then she shot at explosive material when she could have camped by the exit and just wait for the bugger to come out to play.

 dk

It would seem to me that if they were colonizing a new world by themselves, weapons would be required, not only for maintaining law, but also in the event that their new home was invaded by anything ranging from space pirates to an equally advanced alien race of humanoids.

In terms of taking Karine with her, this is why I was trying to explain the kind of irrational panic she would have felt at the time. She went into fight or flight. It wasn't complete abandonment. It was fear telling her, "go get the captain to figure this out, and ensure that when he arrives, the situation will be secure so that the incoming crew members will not also be infected."

While Karine didn't get sprayed in the mouth/nose, Faris did and is clearly more panicked than Karine for this reason. Remember, Karine was still calm enough to attempt to comfort her convulsing crew member with a hug. Faris is so flipped, she's getting confrontational with her husband over him asking her to calm down and explain the situation. But she isn't thinking "oh I was more heavily exposed" she's thinking that both her and Karine are in the same situation. They've both been exposed. The only difference in Faris' fear based thinking is that she can't control Karine's actions. To her Karine would feel like a wild card. Something else the captain should make the call on. She is also probably subconsciously seeing Karine as the person who brought the threat on board and therefore the one who needs to deal with the brunt of it. This is all in line with the insane reasoning people do when they are in fight or flight mode.

I know exactly how I would act in this situation largely because I used to be a hypochondriac and I understand the feeling of panic a person would experience when they are convinced they have suddenly been infected with a fatal virus.

I'm really just relating here and I can tell you, I wouldn't have been able to muster a single clear thought in my head at that point. In Faris's position I would have likely made all the wrong calls too, including irrationally locking Karine in the room. That level of fear makes people stupid in a way that is difficult to describe.

Karine misses a perfect opportunity to squash the creature while it is still in its amniotic sack. I wonder how many more chapters in the saga will be needed for characters not to be caught off guard by nasty critters and evil robots :-) Anyway, it is no good to over analyze the footage so much.

joylitt

"I wonder how many more chapters in the saga will be needed for characters not to be caught off guard by nasty critters and evil robots"

Well said. The actions of both Faris and Karine somewhat echoes how hesitant the Nostromo crew was when the chestburster first showed up, and again when they were first hunting around for it with the net. Parker actually did exactly what Karine did. He grabbed something sharp and went into defensive mode, ready to stab the burster were it to lunge at him. Karine and Faris were both too horrified to take any sensible action. 

It is unrealistic to expect the characters to suddenly transform into the Ripley we see at the end of Aliens when first encountering a creature like that. Even Ripley was terrified all throughout the first two films until Newt helped her find her resolve.

We can't hold these characters to the 80's standard of action heroes that we've become so accustomed to. In the real world, few people would actually be heroic when faced with this kind of situation. Even when people witness someone getting attacked in public, most people stand by and watch rather than get involved.

OK, I have to say something....did anyone else think for at least a second that the little alien stood next to no chance in a life or death struggle with you?  I mean I'm not Superman but i like to think that even without a knife I could have torn that things head right off.  It was like getting attacked by a chihuahua.  Teeth, spikes, I don't care. I would have grabbed that little bastard and smashed its head into the wall, floor, door frame, operating table, floor some more....then pulled off its little disgusting arms and legs.  Think Hulk vs Loki in Avengers.

But then I'm sitting here safely in front of my laptop at home, so maybe its easy to boast :)

Now the adult version....maybe not.

I thought Faris's behaviour was fine.

The only medical help on the planet (that they know of is the lander).

Faris had to let them on board.

She takes appropriate action like telling them not to touch anything inside and throwing off her gloves off the boarding ramp.She puts gloves on. She has only been in their vicinity for a very short period of time.

She has no idea of the contagion and its mechanism.

Many contagions are not readily transferrable under such circumstances. Whilst she has some blood on her, again that is not immediately an issue.

That she puts them in quarantine is ok.  Essentially all the away team have been exposed anyway on the planet. Faris is the only one who has a possible case to be kept separate.  At that time, with the facts she has.....she did the right thing.

She cannot shut up shop like in Alien (everybody has been open to the atmosphere and biome unlike in Alien) but she can confine those  (Karine and the victim) because they have been  very close physically close (Karine has been helping the victim to walk etc) over a period of time.  She wisely shuts them in when she sees that this is something really bad - something piercing the back! Not good.  SHe also is trying to communicate to Oram that things are getting really bad and with the ship. She is not doing anything bad but she is trying to do a lot of things in a short order of time.

When she returns shes trying to be calmer.

SteveRogers1973 I had considered that but there are quite a few dangerous small creatures that can put on the hurt when going loco- badgers, cats, some birds, even some small monkeys have ripped peoples' faces apart. They aren't new borns but it makes me wonder if the baby morphs have some DNA from animals on the planet and the goo did its magic. Also, if she could have gotten a hold of the thing, action would have to spot on quick.

SteveRogers1973

I had the same thought about Karine's reaction to the burster climbing on her and attacking while she did virtually nothing but swat.

I will say your caveat about sitting safely at home is probably a fair one. So many people would flip out if they were laying on the floor and a snarling agressive rat climbed on them and started attacking their face. Many are put off at the thought of twisting it apart just due to a rat's potential to carry disease. Then of course there's the rats with wings.

Karine acted the way most people would if a bat was divebombing their face. Having seen this thing tear out of her crewmate's back, she's probably occupied with the irrational fear of the creature getting inside her or infecting her.

Karine also seems somewhat pretentious from what we were shown in the Last Supper. This would also lend to her being a bit more of a princess. She probably isn't much of a fighter.

Regular Parrot

Your thoughts are coming from a different place than mine and taking on a different tone, but this is also quite valid. I hadn't considered that she may just perceive them as having a greater chance of contaminating the ship based on their prolonged exposure to the elements verses her minor exposure to the blood spurt.

Definitely possible this is what Ridley was going for here.