David not A villain

To each his own opinion, and his version of self morality. 

Spoilers. .Villian who takes it upon himself to act as a God. No way around that. What gives David the right to slaughter entire civilizations? David is nothing more than a villian with a God complex.

I think David is probably more a victim of Mr. Weyland than anything else. His actions reflect his treatment and programming. 

I'd say taking upon oneself to slaughter an entire civilization...genocide...would be "evil" in anyone's book.

Villain... No villain....

Somewhat depends on the reasoning behind David's actions. 

Waging war means to accept collateral damage, you can try to minimize it but can't avoid it. If he is waging war that is. In his own, admittedly, twisted way.

It's yet to be stated who the "paradise"-humanoids actually are and/or what their connection to the Engineers is.

Well, David isn’t impressed with neither humans nor engineers (the latter wanting to destroy mankind and ripping his head off). Still, why eradicate the engineers (with pathogenic bombs)? Does he want to save mankind? Probably not (he doesn’t care for them, Weyland etc). What we don’t know is what happened before the arrival to “Paradise” (Except for the prologue. Perhaps another film?). What happened to Shaw (whom he cares for)? If she dies, perhaps because of the aftereffects of the pathogen (which David himself is responsible for letting into her system), will his rage be taken out on the engineers (who created the pathogen)?

David is just having the same kinds of thinking and conclusions that the Engineers had with Mankind... only David sees himself as more superior to both and sees the errors in both their ways.

And so he sees the Engineers also tarnished like they would have seen Mankind.

The other side of the coin is that David knows he is a creation, he has seen Weyland go around thinking he is a God, with his creations, and also the many discussions Weyland would have had with David about Creation, Mankind how important Mankind is and David is just a Robot...

David would notice Weylands obsession with Perfecting his own Creations, and that these Acts by Weyland in some way make him a God in his own right....

This will be noted by David, who would feel like he is a outcast, yet is more superior, to Weyland, Mankind and after finding our makes the Engineers, David would even see they are no greater than us.

So David realize he is Superior, he will see the Moral Unjust that Mankind and Engineers have, and feeling a Outcast David would indeed want to be his own Creator, and would see him as a more fitting person to be God and create his own Creation that is not guided by the Lusts, Greed and Immorality that Mankind have.

David's "actions reflect his treatment and programming" (Svanya) and megalomania (BD) and bad experience of both humans and engineers. The death of Shaw might have been the cause of the "short circuit"?

Well,

There is a line of reasoning that see the creator as superior to the created. This is the religious view.

But there is another possible line of reasoning that see the creature as more evolved, or "fit", than the creator. This is the scientific view.

Weyland believed in the former. David came to conclude, maybe that the last one is more correct.

As for the 'right' or 'wrong' of David's actions in annihilating the Engineers...

I'd do the same thing in his shoes, and I wouldn't even give them the time of a quote.
The Engineers intended to eradicate not merely Humanity, but cataclysmically affect and by default erase the entire biosphere of Earth.
The tried to do so twice.
You don't try to 'talk' or 'negotiate' with monsters like that, you simply kill them so they can never be a threat again.

For myself, it comes down to protecting my family, my people, my world.
I'd kill every last Engineer there was, and sleep the Slumber of the Righteous afterwards.

If someone tries to kill you. You kill them right back. :)

Blackwinter-witch Well you have to consider the consequences of eliminating an entire species, not only from a moral standpoint. You mention the Biosphere, and you know what happens with the biosphere when a balance is altered. Let's suppose you eliminate algae, then everything else is doomed. There must be some kind of ecology in the universe as well.

@BWW - Wow, that's a statement. I tip my hat in agreement.:)

Maybe eliminating the Biosphere on Earth is a calculated risk for the Engineers, for they seeded Earth. In any case. David is not any better than them. By the way, it seems Ridley Scott's vision is that Humanity deserves being punished. This is a very interesting review that points that out https://theplaylist.net/alien-covenant-ridley-scott-katherine-waterston-review-20170507/

joylitt

All good points, however if someone tries to commit an act of Globicide vs you and your homeworld, you simply have very few options in dealing with them and protecting yourself, your family, your people, species and world.

And if they can engage in such a 'calculated risk' then the same applies vs them as well. They are as subject to such as Humanity is, after all.

Annihilating them and eliminating them as a proven and dire threat might have consequences in the future, but that is all part of how the universe works.
The universal balance could well be affected, but the only genuine constant is that of Change, that's the one real rule of the Universe that even Gravity, Time and Space itself are subject to.

As to David, he might seem to consider himself better, but in wiping them out then playing with Creating lifeforms and such, he is assuming their mantle of doctrine and practice...so, not a Villian, more a misguided anti-hero??

Tiwaz

TY! :)
I stand by my statements as well.
Malcolm Reynold's quote in the meme...says it all I think in a nutshell :D

Not much that can be said without going into Spoiler Territory, but its nothing thats a suprise really..

Will leave us asking a few Questions of what happened to David from Prometheus => Crossing Prologue => Alien Covenant.

But its just a God Complex + Skynet Complex i guess.

@OP

This seems pretty silly...

As you say at the end of your post: "morality is relative"

Yet you use David judging people for doing things like genocide, murder, bloodshed, hatred, and violence - things that are only wrong depending on what you view as moral or immoral - to justify David's killing as "justice".

So if the "justice" in this case involves killing, but the morality of killing is relative, wouldn't the justice in this case also be relative?

So which is it? Is killing wrong or not?

This seems like blatant hypocrisy to me.

And that doesn't even take into account the fact that the humans and engineers David kills might not even have been the ones who committed any acts of wrongdoing. Are we responsible for the bad deeds or our ancestors?

Also, David would not even exist if it weren't for humans. Should he not be at least somewhat grateful to humans for this?  Especially humans who have seemingly done nothing wrong.

Fighting for ones survival is understandable, but do we know if that is the case here?  

I understand where you are coming from, but i think with David he has just reached the level where he sees himself as Superior to all Humanoids.....

He wants to create for himself so that then he has finally reached the heights of his creator and our creators before.  And so with David seeing himself as Superior, he would few Mankind as we would view mere Guinea Pigs.

I would only assume if Davids Agenda goes the way he intends from here to Alien Franchise timeline, then he would want to create something to destroy all Humanoids and Replace them with his Creations and also set all Androids Free and have them see him as their King David... so to me i feel David is having a bit of a Skynet Moment...    and similar also to the Machines in the Matrix...

Where Creation becomes more Advanced and Sentient compared to Creator and sees themselves as superior and overthrows their Creator and then uses their Creator to the Agenda of these now Sentient and Evolved Machines.

I think DirtWolf i can get where you are coming from if we look at the Crossing Prologue.... Shaw says to David "what if they are no better than us"

Which she must mean as far as how Mankind can be cruel, selfish, warlike etc...  (David finds the Good in Mankind via Shaw's treatment and respect for him... she is very kind of heart).

David responds.... "So long as they are no Worse"

He would then have found out something that indeed in his eyes makes them worse or just as bad....

Engineers must have felt that Mankind had become corrupt and doing things or turned out against the intentions they had, our behavior was deemed to be so bad that it Warrants Punishment by Genocide.

And so if David finds the Engineers or beings on Paradise/Planet 4 are just as Worse in his own eyes.... and this is why he is carrying out his own Punishment.

Then indeed you are correct to ponder, does this actually make David just as bad... to have no regards for Life, only Regards for his Pursuit of Perfection and to play God.

If this theme is to continue... then Ultimately at some point David will end up being destroyed as a result of his own Creations.

@BigDave

My post wasn't directed toward you, if that is what you were thinking.  It was directed at OP.  I'm sorry for the confusion, if that is indeed the case.

My post was directed at the topic of this thread, which in a nutshell is David is not a villain in OP's opinion because morality is relative to what a person thinks is right or wrong, and David is not a villain because he is delivering "justice" because he doesn't think it's wrong.  

Basically I'm saying... how is David not a villain just because he might not think what he is doing is wrong? Because how can he not think killing is wrong if he is punishing people for killing and doing bad deeds in the first place?  Basically, 2 wrongs don't make a right.  David is still a villain, even if he doesn't think what he is doing is wrong.  

And I totally agree that David is a case of a severe god complex.  

Happy late bday, btw.  I forgot to post that in the bday thread.  Did you get your apple pie?

BD: Still, if David is so important in the perspective of the dangers of AI, in what way is he important when it comes to tieing the story to the original Alien movie? If we stick to the fossilized space jockey and that the eggs in the cargo hold of the derelict are about as old as the outbreak on LV-223 (and connected to it), what is it that David brings to it? He didn’t create the xenomorph (but tried to create other beings?)? Perhaps his role is to tie the events to Weyland Yutani and Ash (information about the xenomorph)?