Ridley Scott and his dilemma in the Alien universe

@Michelle Johnston this is why I theorized that Shaw may have potentially attempted to defy or betray David after he crashed on Paradise (potentially after some amount of time had elapsed); I cannot reconcile his obvious "love" for Shaw with the somewhat sociopathic/sadist dismissal of Shaw's fate that he discloses to Daniels, after seeing Shaw left without any dignity on that slab. There's just not enough in this film to convince what is true of their relationship either way. At least for me, the fact that he may have loved (in the sense that humans do) adds enough relatability that I may be able to follow David as a very flawed protagonist through the remainder of the prequel.

Now I have heard various interpretations of what "love" means to David. but again these vary because nothing very conclusive comes from what we are shown in the film. Again at least for me.

@Michelle: Those are all great points.

I went back and watched some of the special features interviews from the Prometheus DVD, because I wanted to refresh my memory as to where Ridley, Spaights , Lindelof, etc..., originally wanted and intended to go, in terms of the story and plot lines. Mostly Ridley, because the writers were pretty much just following his lead and directions.

Ridley clearly states that his primary ambition and focus was to concentrate on the engineers, who they were, where they came from, and how they connected to both the xenomorphs, and to human beings.

I remember being so excited by the direction that Prometheus was going in when I first heard about it. And when I saw Prometheus I was fascinated by those elements of the story. I was very disappointed with some of the characters, some of the dialogue, and some of the scenes. Overall, I felt like the main idea of the story was fascinating enough, but that the execution of the movie as a whole was poorly done. Which shocked me, considering it was Ridley, and considering how long they had to prepare for for the movie.

This is what bothers me most about Ridley's flip flopping all over the place. I mean, he had almost 30 years to think it all through. He had definite concepts and ideas in mind. Watching the Prometheus DVD features confirms this. He pretty much knew where he wanted to go, in terms of the story. He did make minor changes and alterations throughout the writing process, but for the most part he stayed within the general framework of concentrating on the engineers and their links to xenos and humans.

So I just don't understand why he's so fickle and faithless when it comes to the story and plot lines now. He absolutely did not want to do much with the xenos before, and then now says things like, "If they want xenos, I'll give them xenos". I wonder if he's referring to the fans, or the corporate bosses... or both.

Ridley just seems like he's compromising as an artist a bit, and treating the whole story like it's something that can be created on the fly, without careful attention to details. 

I'm hoping that he still has a strong grasp of the big picture, when it's all said and done.

Cmutt is right. Ridley was very clear about what he wanted with Prometheus, but pressures from fans, producers and the studio pretty much forced him to make a sequel mostly focused on the xenomorphs and leaving aside the engineers. He thought more as a commercial filmmaking than as an artist.

I worry that Scott is 80 years old and that before taking the sequel to Covenant has on schedule the direction of at least two more films and the production of 6 more projects, not counting the more than 12 projects that were announced will produce for Cinema and TV.

It is possible that as much work does not let him focus as it should in a franchise as interesting and complex as the saga of Alien. To treat the mythology of engineers as he conceived it in Prometheus and continue to relate it correctly with the xenomorphs / neomorphs he needs time to develop such an exciting subject as this.

Scott needs visionaries and creative writers / producers to be close to him so they can execute their ideas in the best way. Maybe so, could stay the interest in this saga that we like so much, keeping up with Prometheus fans and Alien saga.

I feel that Ridley perverted, and possibly destroyed, the Aliens franchise. For me Alien was a sci-fi horror movie where the plot revolved around a group of protagonist's struggle to survive. Suspense, horror, and building a connection between the audience and characters so that it hurt when they were ultimately killed was the primary focus. Prometheus and covenant only used the Alien universe as a plot device to tell a story which revolved around the character development of David. I really enjoyed David's plot however, by merging his story into the Alien universe David and the original elements of Alien end up in competition for screen time; I feel that Ridley should have either made actual Alien movies or pursed David through a universe tailor made to serve his story. Alien didn't have a deep though provoking plot because it didn't need one. By grafting David into alien the alien franchise has been mutated into something implicitly not Alien and doomed future continuations into the Alien universe to follow down the same path.

@Michelle "...For me the difference now is given two viewings I found Covenant entertaining but do not find myself thinking about the movie outside of the theatre. Prometheus on the other hand is a gem I am constantly turning over in my mind and contemplating its secrets..."

Your comments struck me as that's exactly the way I feel. A:C was "entertainment" but "Prometheus" transcends film itself. It was thought and grandeur and amazement and science and wonder and faith and mythology and monsters and God and the Devil all wrapped up in a movie that, despite its critics, will be remembered and will only gain strength over time. It remains to be seen how A:C will be regarded, and a lot will depend on how the Prequels wrap up.

I wish more fans were interested in the long story.  When Scott said he wanted to do 4 movies, that should have set the pace that not all questions will, nor need to be answered in one movie. For people that are not true fans of the whole Alien saga, they complain because the movie didn't link up to the original, or didn't have any Ripley eater eggs or something.  Most reviews I've read seem like they want the franchise to end with one movie to link it all together and call it quits.  I feel like exploring the rest of the universe would make for plenty of follow up movies that aren't the same story over and over again, but will be able to continue to expand and develop the universe and story much better than trying to squeeze a new xenomorph into each movie for the audiences that watch the original again.

Xeno movies can work if they have well done human characters. Prometheus was not very well because of lack of well done human characters and it also should have been closer to Alien. The lack of Xenos wasn’t the main problem, far from it but it should have added things to make more sense.

I don't think the human characters were ever meant to be these deep, memorable characters that stick around through multiple sequels.  They are meant to drive the one movie, then die unfortunately.  I'm OK with that, I'm not looking for human characters I can fall in love with and be sad when they die.  I want the expanse, the story, all of the details that go into that.  With all of the aspects of these movies, the human characters aren't really that important.  The human characters can really only be around to die at this point.  With the extremely advanced Engineers, a malfunctioning advanced AI robot (who is obsessing over creating the perfect organism), and the perfect organism in al of it's variations so far, humans really have no hope to compete with any of this in space, and even though people like happy endings, it's not what we have come to expect from an Alien movie.

I agree with Sean Journot when he says that Scott destroyed the Alien franchise. By joining the extraordinary story of Prometheus in the same universe of Alien, there is a logical conflict of stories that does not allow to deepen one without harming the other. Everything about Prometheus and Alien: Covenant could work much better in a universe different from the Alien, as it suggests a depth of argument far removed from the terror of survival and action that we were accustomed to see in the first films of Alien. The result was that in Alien: Covenant, Scott could not meet the expectations of prometheus fans, who expected a better development of what should have happened with Elizabeth Shae, David and the engineers. It also failed to please the fans of the saga Alien, who were deprived of the suspense and mystery that worked very well with Alien and Aliens. Missed that good concept of solitary survivors struggle against adversity not to be prey to xenomorphs and their derivatives.
 
As Starlogger says, no one was left thinking about Alien: Covenant when he left the theater, contrary to Prometheus, which caused people to analyze this brilliant idea about the real origin of humanity for several days and then the inexplicable idea of destruction Of its creators: the engineers.

Thoughts_Dreams is half right when he says that Alien: Covenent did not work well because he did not have well-made human characters. The film had several characters that could have a greater development in the plot, but the diversity of situations in the script did not make it possible. But I differ from Thoughts_Dreams when it says that Prometheus did not have well-made characters. On the contrary, the best thing of that film was the good construction of its personages. The characters of Rapace, Charlize Theron, Idris Elba and Guy Pearce were decisive, which added to Michael Fassbender (David) and the original plot, consequently left one of the most valuable science fiction films in the genre.

Nor do I agree with drucea when it detracts from the existence of human beings in this story. It is true that engineers are imposing, xenomorphs and Xenomorphs unstoppable and an android of AI avenzada seems to solve any problem, but only humans can manifest the emotional load that merits any film. The sensations of danger, joys and horror are decisive in a science fiction film, and that is only feelings that can bring humans. The determination and sense of survival were the main motives for Ripley (Sigourney Weaver) to survive and was a great favorite in Alien and Aliens, as well as Shaw (Noomi Rapace) in Covenant. Without the fear of these characters, the films of the saga would have been little exciting. Despite adversity, the presence of a human being is always necessary.