David Did Not Create the Xenomorph

ali81: An interesting possibility, but can we be sure that the engineers worshipped this creature? Couldn't the mural be just a depiction of what needs to be done in times of need, that is war or wiping out civilisations that have gone astray (David has learnt this from them)?

To bring a living egg to their home world would indeed be dangerous unless the sacrifice needed to create the xeno was part of the cult connected to the temple? The temple might have been very closely sealed when the unlucky victim (engineer/human) was exposed to the egg? On the other hand, why create the xeno when it's enough to just expose enemies/civilisations to the mutagen/pathogen (which David does)? 

chli, I think as david says there are many variations of the mutagen. unless RS takes us back to see the connection between the engineers and the substance then wel never know what is truly going on and I very much doubt wel get the full potential for the engineers shown in future instalments

"This is Alien, not Blade runner."

I agree its supposed to connect to Alien, but as RS started with Prometheus, he is exploring more Mythos and Creation Themes and so the Xenomorph is just a smaller piece of some jigsaw and so we do not know 100% what the importance of the Xenomorph will be in the Franchise.

It does seem to be along the lines of Creator, Creates, maybe Creates or interferes with something not supposed to, that leads to their downfall.  This will be a constant revolving theme....   And the Black Goo is what caused a Downfall of the Engineers on LV-223 and Mankinds Creation David, is what then uses this to bring about the Downfall of the Engineers on Paradise.  Eventually i think David and Engineers will become dead... and then its Mankinds Downfall for trying to use and obtain the Creation David had made from the Engineers Black Goo.

@chli

I think its a nice theory to consider the Engineers bringing and creating Eggs to that Place to then Sacrifice Humanoids to create the Xenomorph and Related Organisms... This is very much what HR Gigers Alien Mural was showing.

We have to ask why though?  As its a big risk to take a Egg to Paradise, especially depending how FOX/RS now explore how the Xenomorph Procreates... as David has TWO Face Huggers, and so if from a single Alien they can Procreate a lot, then having those Eggs on Paradise is a Risk, and we see little Protection or Safety Procedures on Paradise for such a thing.

Also i think its a long winded way to go about creating Life on Worlds over Millions of years just to be Hosts for Xenomorphs unless its revealed a Agenda by who ever created the Engineers calls for this...    I think creating a Xenomorph just as a Weapon is something thats fine on LV-223 but very risky on Paradise.

And those Engineers seemed to be in Good Shape before David Bombarded them, but David indicated the Egg was how he found it, and it was aggressive.  We have to wonder how did this Aggressive Organism remain Dormant until David discovered it, when it was contained within the Cathedral that Most of the Engineers where trying to get into after the Bombardment.

There seems to be no Mural or anything in the Engineers Architecture nothing to do with the Black Goo or Xenomorph, but only the Engineers and Humanoids.

These concepts are interesting...

I think now the Movie is out... a few Interviews with people who worked on the movie could be interesting, as they could not Spill any beans prior to the Movie release.

Wayne Haagg had done some of these concepts, he should know the reason for them, he also worked with people who had done a lot of the Engineer Writing we see in various scenes and concepts and THIS TIME those Engineer Writings have a Meaning and so again Wayne Haagg may have a lot of insight into some of those.

BigDave: Yes, it would be interesting to hear what Haag has to say about the temple on "Paradise". What was it's function?

Outside, there is this vast round area with buddha-like statues of offering and a docking station. Were abducted humanoids taken here to be sacrificed?

An egg is dormant until a humanoid (something living) comes near it (just as the spores). Towards David, it shouldn't become aggressive. If a sacrificial humanoid comes near, however . . .

"It lies as I found it, a supreme example of the engineers’ skill”

Having Finally downloaded and Read TWO previous Alien Covenant Drafts i can confirm that the Drafts  Paradise Lost August 19th 2015 and Alien Covenant November 20th 2015 Do-Not have any such Scene that lends to David discovering the Egg, both Drafts imply that David is the Creator of the Ovomorphs his Masterpiece.

They both differ a little in the Creation of them, in that the one draft implies that  Dr Shaw was one of the Test Subjects for the Face Hugger but she did-not survive long (implies the Gestation was not successful).  But both drafts seem to Basically imply that the Pathogen had infected some Mold and from these Grew Small Eggs (latter be the Spore Casing) and inside these were Tiny Nano Insects that infect and Create Neomorphs... and David had basically Experimented with these and Cross-hyrbid them (likely various Organisms) to create the Xenomorph.

Both drafts are a little different but looking at the TWO overall they both have the Chest Buster as exactly the same as in ALIEN (Snakelike) there are NO real references to HOW our Dr Shaw was used... only in the One Draft it mentions that David was trying to Evolve Her, make her Immortal and that David intends to do the same with Daniels (not to Rape Her) but he does then also Force her to Kiss him....

This is the First Time i had read any of these drafts i could not find them but they are on https://www.avpgalaxy.net

I rarely if ever visit the site, mainly due to if he get intrigued to join in their Forums i would end up having to BUY a New Keyboard every 6 Months ;)

But it seems my hunches on how David had created the Xenomorph from the clues i had looked at, are pretty much what appears to have happened (thanks to those Drafts which seem to confirm similar).

So the Neomorph Spores are what David had Re-Engineered and using them and the Black Goo on other Organisms he created various Organisms before making a Amalgamation of the preferred traits to Create his Xenomorph.

The Drafts do-not indicate that Dr Shaw's Reproductive System was used in the Process... which is what i assumed because prior to Alien Covenant the closest we got to a Xenomorph was the Deacon via Dr Shaws Fetus the Trilobite, which to me indicated a Infected Egg Cell or Sperm that Fertilized a Egg Cell would be the cause for the Trilobite.   Looking how i interpreted the Goo from Prometheus and then Spaights Draft (which i came across 7-9 Months latter) looking at how the theory i had and what Spaights draft showed, had indicated that David could create a Specimen that is a Cross-Hybrid and then obtain its DNA and Infect Dr Shaw's Egg Cells with this to Create the Xenomorph.

Despite the TWO drafts for Alien Covenant not going into detail to confirm such, the Davids Notes and Drawings seem to indicate this (Humanoid Egg Cells) is the case.

HOWEVER.................

Things can Change... some may use ADF's Novel as PROOF that David did-not create the Xenomorph, but it appears without doubt that the information that supports this in the Novel is something that was ADDED by Alan Dean Foster and NOT in the Drafts.

Unless this Information was from a Prior or Later Draft, but i Find that Doubtful, Casting had began about a Month after the November 20th 2015 Alien Covenant Draft and i would ASSUME this was the Draft that Alan Dean Foster worked with.

But just because the Indication and Plot is that David actually DID create the Xenomorph or at least its Predecessor, things could change due to Fan-Pressure again.

Doing another U-Turn would be Flawed.... i would rather see that David is revealed as the Middle Man and someone else comes across Davids Work and EVOLVES it to their Hubris (Space Jockey).

"BigDave: Yes, it would be interesting to hear what Haag has to say about the temple on "Paradise". What was it's function?"

I would not just be asking him about its Function!

I would be asking WHY the Concept works seemed to depict other beings than our BALD Engineers and WHY in these there are NO Engineers at all.

I think many Fans do still TRY and bring the Prequels around to the Xenomorph or Related and Assume the Center Point has to be about Sacrifice to Procreate these Monsters....  I feel this is NOT the case... bare in mind that the sequels was to STEER away from the Xenomorph.  We have to assume the Xenomorph Shinanigans was something the Engineers got caught up in a LONG time after they had set out to Seed and Evolve Life on Worlds and Teach their Creations various Knowledge.

I also think knowing HOW Deadly the Xenomorph is and Black Goo Created Monsters...  And looking at Planet 4 and what means they have of Containment... it would be VERY FOOLISH to Host Eggs or Related in that Cathedral.

Certainly the Cathedral is a Center Point to the Engineers ways and Rituals, their Ways and Rituals seem to be about Creation, Seeding Worlds and this required Sacrifice.

IF look at the Prequels... STRIP everything related to the Xenomorph out, and look at only what could connect to a Plot that Mankind was a Creation by some Alien Humanoids, and we was Created in their Image and the Sacrificial Scene (inc the Elders too) is KEY to how they Begin this...

Then PLANET 4 and LV-223 will start to make PERFECT sense ;)

The Reaction to the Juggernaught by those Engineers makes sense, the Juggernaught as NOT a War Machine will make Sense.

@chli Why ask Haag? Wasn't the cathedral Steven Messing concept? Wasn't Haag also the one that said something along the line that Covenant shifted back to what was important, namely David? 

Wayne and Steven both did some Concept work on the Cathedral and both it looked the same apart from Slight Differences regarding the Human looking Figures on the Doorway/Entry to the Temple. 

While this may bear no connection any longer, it is interesting HOW those TWO had depicted very similar, instead of Bald Humanoids.   The whole Creation/Chariots of Gods Plot does open up many ways to explore the Connections and History.

Some Fans Speculate the Engineers tried to Re-Create their GOD (Deacon) other that trying to Re-Create such a Beast was the SIN/FALL of some Engineers.

What Irony and Curveball it would be if the Prometheus Engineers attempted to Re-Create their Creators (Planet 4 Engineers) very Own Creators... a Earlier Version of Humanity!

Thus....

Earlier Humans ==> Planet 4 Engineers ==> LV-223 Engineers ==> Humans on Earth.

We see Modern Humans Create David... but what if a Synthetic Being had Created the Earlier Humans and those Synthetic Beings were Created by a Bio-Mechanical Species?

Starbeast ===> Synthetic Race ===> Early Humans ===> Planet 4 Engineers ===> LV-223 Engineer ===> Modern Humans ===> Synthetic Race ===> Bio-Mechanical Horror.

BigDave

One (of many) problems with David being the creator of the xenomorph is that the pathogen is already created by the engineers aeons ago. It is the pathogen which mutates organisms into deadly beasts (in order to extinguish life). The pathogen either gives rise to the xenomorph or the xenomorph’s DNA is part of the “anti-elixir”.

In Prometheus (apart from the mural depicting the whole xenomorph life cycle) we see what the pathogen can “create”: hammerpedes, trilobites, deacons etc.

In Alien: Covenant, the pathogen has eradicated all indigenous fauna. The pathogen has mutated fungi into lethal spore carriers which, if they infect a hominid (what would be the outcome if a deer or bear would be infected?), a neomorph is the result. A neomorph is as deadly as a xenomorph (and related to it).

So, even if they want us to believe that David is the creator of the xenomorph, there still has been in the past and in “the present” other variants, just as deadly. If the pathogen contains DNA from a beast the engineers have stumbled upon, perhaps it was even deadlier - an über-xenomorph?

The ambiguous elements do serve a purpose.

For one thing, they allow us to selfishly tailor our own ideas, likes, preferences & wants into how we view many elements from both Prometheus & Covenant. Thereby making the things we don't particularly like about the prequels more malleable, palatable or acceptable for ourselves.

Also, it allows for a get-out-of-jail card if it appears the story has been backed into a corner! Not really a satisfactory situation, but there you have it.

They also create a sounding board for the franchise, allowing the studio to pick & choose, find out what works or doesn't, like an ever evolving risky experiment.

For everyone who dislikes Prometheus, there is someone who enjoys it, likewise with Covenant. The problem being that each sequel changes focus to a certain extent after a backlash from certain quarters of the fanbase. In a way we are all responsible for that!

At this point in time the story could still evolve in ways which would be pleasing for many of us. But who is listening & gauging reaction? With such a broad variety of opinion across the internet, who has the final say?

It's dangerous ground, very dangerous ground!

For those of us who stick with it, they have us dangling by a slender thread.

I hope Sir Ridders is allowed at least one more outing. This story must reach a conclusion. 

Whatever happens in the future, the only thing I am certain of is that it will cause much shock, anger, frustration, controversy, speculation, admiration & downright pleasure. 

Lone

I agree. The story is ambiguous and open enough to take any turn (e.g. whether David is the creator of the xenomorph or just delusional). A sequel must rake in dollars so a contemplative or action movie?

"One (of many) problems with David being the creator of the xenomorph is that the pathogen is already created by the engineers aeons ago"

Absolutely all he has merely done is Experimented with the Bio-Weapon to Create his own Variant.

Prior to Alien Covenant its likely and indicated the Engineers Created the Xenomorph maybe by similar Processes to what David had done in Alien Covenant.

I understand the reason behind the U-Turn.. but i feel the reason for this would have been Perfectly Suited to showing David take the Engineers Work and Create a Different Variant that is SUPERIOR to the Deacon and Xenomorph.

But ALAS!

@LONE

Fantastic Reply... right on the Money as far as HOW Fans can look at the Franchise.. a Excellent Post.

Hey guys! In 40:40 Prometheus movie, hear crying monster, Deacon? Did deacons or other monsters lived on LV-223 at This time? Inside pyramide see paintings on ceiling on the Engineer faithing with beast and the alien egg with claws. Od David created Eggs and xenomorphs why on paintings they are? The beast defeated by engineer Has combinesone like engineer in armchair on vessel and head and hands modified to beast. This is grandpa od all of beast from Alien serie?

Regarding the SOUND... its left Ambiguous... IT could be a Deacon that is Screaming or it could be a SOUND connected with Activating the Panel.

Regarding Deacons... it is likely that similar had existed/been created in the Past.  The Mural is ambiguous but someone who worked on it had said it was supposed to represent the Deacon.

What we have is the Black Goo in that Complex under Certain Conditions can Create something that is VERY similar to the Organism on the Mural or even that the Urns contain the DNA of the Deacon Organism on the Mural

The Fresco seems to indicate yet ANOTHER kind of Organism, one that in another Image was likely HOLDING a Egg...

This could indicate the Engineers encountered a Organism, they Witnessed its Life-Cycle and they Experimented on it with the Creation Tool (Sacrificial Goo) to Create other Organisms and when Pleased with the Result they Obtain its DNA (likely via Sacrificial Goo) and placed this in the URNS to use to Evolve other Life to take on Traits of the Organisms they had Created.

Back at the time of Prometheus... Ridley Scott had said that the XENOMORPH was a Result of what those Engineers were doing on LV-223, something from those Experiments or Outbreak had EVOLVED...

He indicated that this Happened a within  FEW Hundreds of the OUTBREAK some 2000 years ago, give or take. His comments seem to imply that about 200 Years after the Outbreak something Evolved into the Xenomorph.

He had also claimed the Deacon is a Precursor to the Xenomorph, which i would assume he does-not mean the ONE that was Born from Dr Shaws Alien Fetus. But that similar Deacons had existed Thousands of Years ago.

This has changed with Alien Covenant however.

on the Planet LV-222 few construction of Engineers and people don't visit other of Pyramids and there could be the Eggs or other. 

Absolutely....

There was 5 Complexes we could see....

We cant be sure if Each Complex would Contain the Same Pathogen. By that each Complex the Pathogen may be Coded/Infused with a Different DNA if you would.

We cant rule out if Each Complex was Dedicated to Different Worlds/Species and so the other Complexes could have had Bio-Weapons intended for other Species/Worlds.

It seems that David and Dr Shaw had gone to another Complex to obtain the Juggernaught that BOMBED the Engineers in Alien Covenant and maybe the Pathogen on that Ship could have SLIGHTLY different Effect.

I think we could ASSUME that, if we look at Alien Engineers then the Engineers were Engineering/Creating 8 Variants of the Xenomorph and each would have been Different.

If you look at it from that Perspective then it makes sense to KEEP each Experiment Separate and USE different Outposts.

We see from Prometheus some Consequences of a Outbreak, such as Hammerpedes and Dr Shaws Fetus/Deacon.  With Alien Covenant we saw the Neomorph Spores.

so there is Potential that some of these Complexes could have a LEAKAGE of the GOO and something could have Evolved from this and be WAITING.

I missed to Reply to some OLD comments on this Topic..

I have realized i had USED the Incorrect Word when saying NANO SCARABS.... i used this to Explain that we had TINY Parasitic Organisms that would STORE/PASS on DNA.  The USE of NANO was Incorrect as that would mean Extremely Small.   Indeed Alien Engineers used the Term Scarabs and only described them in One Part as MOTES and so TINY Organisms like Spec of Dust.

Some Props from Prometheus indicated more about the EYE-WORM of Holloway as we saw him start to Produce more and more of these Parasites...  The EYE-WORMS could be Micro Parasites that in EFFECT had replaced the Micro-Scarabs from Alien Engineers.  The Pathogen could contain Micro-Parasites that INSTEAD had Evolved into Small Worm Parasites inside of Holloway.

With Alien Covenant the Neomorph Spores did appear to be a Swarm of Micro Parasites that had taken the Form of a Flying Insect....  again is this a By-Product of infecting a Fungi.... or is the Pathogen USED in Alien Covenant as such are TINY Parasitic Bugs.

With Prometheus being Tiny Parasitic Worms...

It could be each COMPLEX had a Variant of Parasitic Motes with the Same Objective that would INFECT with a Slightly Different Strain of DNA.

Neomorphes in Covenant had white blood like androids. Xenomorphs has acid and corrosive. Is Neomorph an robot and xenomorphs in 1979 was android blood. David's drawings show that he created a xenomorph in terrifying, inhuman experiments combining different species from the planet. you can see that there was a spider on the planet, a crab that was born from an egg, and this crab was crossed with another creeper and inserted an alien embryo. and Xenomorph was made of experiments with Shaw bodies and engineers. had the ability to restore life or support it, you can see the cables inserted into the body part because he had a ship of engineers and their sleeping capsules. if they were able to keep the engineer alive for two thousand years, they also had to have different medical systems. later, mutant engineers and Shaw created another mutant and so on. he also created crosswords of animals with fungi and plants functions. And is drawing with like Space jockey skull

 I Edited post

Either that in 1997 in predator 2 on trophy wall was xenomorphs skull and in AVP 2004 they readed that they both fight for tousend years

Indeed as Michart had indicated we see David has USED the Creation Tool (Pathogen) to Cross-Breed many Organisms to TAKE certain Traits and Combine them into ONE SUPER ORGANISM.

Dane Hallet had even confirmed that the Engineers had NOTHING to do with the Xenomorph (as far as the Direction they had taken).

@Indonator

Yes we saw those in Predator 2 as a Easter Egg, and with AVP 2004 then YES the Xenomorph was THOUSANDS of Years Old, but the AVP Franchise and Predator are NOT Considered Direct Canon.  Certainly NOT as far as where RS had wanted to take us. 

The Decision to make DAVID the Creator of the Xenomorph had come after Spring 2015, prior to that the Xenomorph Origins was NEVER going to be Told, and David was going to Create something ELSE that we would see some Connection to the Xenomorph with.

The Xenomorph Origins is something that has EVOLVED over the Years.

1977-1978 They was the Remains (Egg/Spore Stage) of some Ancient Organism that was somewhat Civilized (STARBEAST).

1979-1981 We had Ridley Scott indicate they was some Engineered Weapon that likely the Space Jockey had Created.

1985-1986 We had James Cameron introduce the Queen and Hive Aspect of the Xenomorph which then added some debate to that the Xenomorph could have been some Pre-Existing Organism the Space Jockey must have either attempted to USE as a Weapon or was attempting to Transport it for STUDY.

Since 1986 until 2009 then its Origins and Connection to the Space Jockey was KEPT a Mystery a ambiguous one.  Various Comics, Video Games and AVP etc had indicated different Clues to their Origins but in CONTEXT to the ALIEN MOVIE Franchise it was kept a Mystery.

2009-2011 We had the work on the Prequels where the Xenomorph was indicated as a Engineered Bio-Weapon which had MANY Variants the Engineers had Experimented with and it seemed the ORIGIN to them came from Experiments on some other ANCIENT Organism.

2012 We had Ridley Scott say the Xenomorph came after the Outbreak on LV-223 some TWO Thousand Years ago, and seemed to indicate that something had EVOLVED in the Cargo Hold that then INFECTED the Space Jockey who then Quarantined the Derelict on LV-426 some Few Hundred Years after.

2013-2014 It seemed that the Xenomorph Origins would be STEERED AWAY from but David would Create something ELSE that maybe could Provide Clues to the Xenovirus/Pathogen and WHAT it could Create in the WRONG HANDS.

2015-2016 They worked on Alien Covenant where RS had decided that we SHOULD get to the ORIGINS of the Beast and LV-426 and decided to MAKE IT that David would be the Creator of the Xenomorph instead of something ELSE.