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Where I think Sir Ridley Scott could be going...

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AshN117

MemberOvomorphAugust 14, 2017

 After finally getting around to watching Alien Covenant a few nights back, admittedly I've found myself pondering about the film itself and the mythos/lore surrounding it. Particularly the origins of the xenomorph itself. 

I know this topic has become a hotly debated one, but I think it'll put my mind at ease by adding to it in some way. 

I think where Ridley Scott is taking the franchise is deliberate, in terms of the revelation, or non revelation, that David-8 is the creator of the xenomorph. Or a least the strain he developed.

Here's what I think;

David-8 in the film states the eggs are 'my successes' indicating he created them and the resulting aliens. This obviously goes against already outlined lore, ie, the mural from Prometheus and the eggs in the derelict on LV 426. I'm tending to believe that David himself believes that he is creating something original. Something new, his 'successes'. 

 In time, in a future film/s, he will likely discover that his creations aren't original, just his own take on what the Engineers already new, and just as sung in the 'Gods Arising to Valhalla' and that Ozymandias poem he raves on about, his creations will turn against him, destroying their creator. 

What we get from the Engineers and whats already established lore, it is stated in the 1979 Alien film that the derelict appears to be hundreds if not thousands of years old with the eggs themselves appearing dormant. Maybe in future titles David will discover to his horror, the beings he destroyed already had in some way, created the xenos or at least a form of. 

The Engineers, long before humans, either by design or accident, created the xenos. Or just the eggs if the films novelization is deemed canon. Either way, this revelation of David the creator is just a set up for him to prophetically fall like the 'Gods', other creators, with the realization he only created what has come before, or what already exists.

I very much doubt that Sir Ridley Scott will retcon what so many of Alien fans deem settled lore, deliberate ambiguity. The mystery still exists. 

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joylitt
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daliens The writers should avoid the obvious. The derelict from Alien could very well be part of the fleet that never made it to Earth 2000 years ago due to the outbreak that was hinted at in Prometheus.

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SuperAlien
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 joylitt in Prometheus there were no eggs shown, only ampules of pathogen. Did I miss something?

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

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SuperAlien
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joylitt please define obvious.

For some it is obvious that David created the xenomorph and he is the best candidate to sit on the Space Jockey chair.

For others it is obvious the derelict is way older than David at least.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

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SuperAlien
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joylitt I believe that even the supporters of David as Space Jockey would be relieved if writers decide a different fate for David.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

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joylitt
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daliens But something happened to the spacejockey. He gave birth to something... and lots of things can happen in 2000 years. On top of that, isn't it kinda funny the fact that the vases have roughly the same shape and size as the eggs?

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joylitt
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At this point, the obvious would be David as the spacejockey.

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SuperAlien
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joylitt I hope you are right.

I wonder who will tell the story after David. It will be hard to find somebody else to match him, as hard as watching David until the end of the next movie.

Could it be Walter? :)

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

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SuperAlien
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"But something happened to the spacejockey. He gave birth to something... and lots of things can happen in 2000 years. On top of that, isn't it kinda funny the fact that the vases have roughly the same shape and size as the eggs?"

How come I never thought of that? The eggs be put in the hold by the creature that burst out of the Space Jockey.  It makes perfect sense.

joylitt you are brilliant.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

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joylitt
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Michelle Johnston your comments are always very, very insightful. However, the arc that you mention is made clear only after watching the short "The Advent", which unfortunately has an unreliable narrator: David, who is crazy. But your interpretation is very consistent and not very far from my own. There is one big question mark that connects all the loose pieces of this puzzle: why the Engineers wanted to destroy human kind. I believe David knows why, he just wouldn't tell.

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chli
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AshN117

Good point David being delusional, seeing himself as God and creator of the xenomorph. The engineers created the mutagen/pathogen which is the real weapon of mass destruction (which we see in Alien: Covenant where the engineers are wiped out by David).

The black goo mutates its host and can turn it into anything depending on the host (different outcome if it’s a dog, human, engineer etc). David hasn’t created anything new (but he thinks so in his delusions).

David has now given the information about the mutagen (and what it can lead to) to WY so everything must probably go up in smoke in the next movie, and a flashback scene at the end (an engineer leaves LV-223 in a juggernaut filled with eggs) leads to LV-426?

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SuperAlien
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"If he isn't the creator of the Xenos then the prequels narrative would be pointless and it would fall apart."

Lawrence of Arabia don't worry, it will not fall apart. If the derelict ship from Alien left LV223 during or after the outbreak it would all make sense. And the xenomorph will remain the mighty killing machine it once was.

All the creators, godless in their hubris to play god, will die by the hand of their creation.

I think that this is the reason of the fragile chestburster from Covenant, to show that the Protomorph created by David is not the natural beast we see in Alien. That's why we see it in the open, to admire its perfect composure and its fragility at the same time. No matter how aggressive it seems it is not the visceral monster that came out of Kane.

And as joylitt said, the xenomorph we know was not created by David or by Engineers. 

I concur to that opinion and I hope Ridley will validate it.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

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Michelle Johnston
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daliens 

"As a joke, in the book there were 3 facehuggers he took on board the Covenant? Let's hope he swallowed the third one and somehow the facehugger managed to turn into a chestburster. End of David".

I have referred to this point on a couple of occasions. ADF's book was based on a pre finish screen play. So at some point they went from 3 embryo's laying in the trays to 2 embryo's being regurgitated by a David whose symphony is off. The message of the end of the movie is David has had ALIEN embryos inside him are all these points of no consequence or are the visual clues we have seen in the Crossing David in the Jockey chair and of course there is this

http://worldofdictionary.com/dict/latin-english/meaning/origa.  

Origae being the female derivation for charioteer and helmsman.

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joylitt
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daliens I think David's work on Paradise might have a different purpose other than revenge. Probably we will see David's role from a different perspective next time we see him. What David seeks is validation. That is very obvious to me.

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SuperAlien
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Michelle Johnston mentioning of Origae-6 (Auriga) I believe is another trick to lead us astray. Like the 2000 colonists from Covenant (false hint at a xenomorph army or the thousands of eggs from the derelict). It would have been too flawed to find David on Origae-6, so they where headed somewhere, name it Origae -6 but they were diverted to the Paradise Lost, Ridley is always good at names (what kind of name is Sulaco anyway?).

I believe we were fed a lot of false leads in Covenant, that will have no continuity in Awakening. That will infuriate again a lot of people.

As joylitt put it we were made to belive the obvious fact is that David created the xenomorph. But if it is so and it is obvious for most, what fun would have the continuation of the story? It has to bring a twist.

I have no idea what are the plans of Ridley Scott but it is hard to believe he intended David as the creator of the xenomorph as seen in Alien. Even if he says so today, it is because he does not want to give away the plot of the next movie. He is not senile as some actionmoviegoers said.

Our friend joylitt must be right: the eggs from the derelict come from the creature that burst from the Space Jockey. I was always thinking that first were the eggs in the hold and one of them lead to a facehugger incident, as it happened to Kane. 

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

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chli
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Well, the story of the Space Jockey has been changed. Everyone can see that it’s a skeleton (or fossil) but they changed it into being a space suit. I hope they won’t change the story on LV-223, about the outbreak and an engineer leaving with the cargo hold filled with xeno-eggs (himself infected).

That was what Prometheus was all about. They created us and experimented in the facilities on LV-223. They created the black goo, they created us and they created the xenomorph.

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SuperAlien
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joylitt It seems that David is convinced that no one understands the lonely perfection of his dreams and he is superior to humans, the next visionair.

He cleansed planet 4 without remorse.

He entered with the gods into valhalla. 

I don't know why he sent the reports from Advent. For validation? He is really beyond repair.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

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joylitt
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daliens I mean validation for his acts. And recognition that he is at least equal or superior to his creator.

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SuperAlien
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joylitt everything is possible with David. 

I some point I think he imagined how interesting would have been to have Peter Weyland instead of Shaw for his experiments.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

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Spaced-Out
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@daliens if whatever burst out of the space jockeys chest created the eggs, then why was there a mist over the eggs that reacted when broken, like some kind of protection or maybe temperature control, like an incubator.

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SuperAlien
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Spaced-Out I don't have the answer, it's just a theory. But if you read the novelization of Covenant,  there was a strong stench of ammonia in the basement where the eggs were.

When I googled ammonia I found the following definition:

"Anhydrous ammonia gas is lighter than air and will rise, so that generally it dissipates and does not settle in low-lying areas. However, in the presence of moisture (such as high relative humidity), the liquefied anhydrous ammonia gas forms vapors that are heavier than air."

So it may be a layer of liquefied anhydrous ammonia. I think they used this special effect back then because it was cool, but mentioning ammonia in Covenant may be more than a coincidence.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

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