The Facilities on LV-223

@chli

Indeed it can appear to be awfully confusing.... the DNA match was just Plot Device to show that we came from them....   The Sacrificial Scene however would mean some Evolution happened after this point, and indeed the Story Boards did just this...  It showed a Fast Fowards View of Evolution suggesting that the Sacrificial Scene was either the Starting Point (but could not be as the World had Plant Life) or just a Catalyst to kick start basic Life to become more Advanced and then Evolution took place after.

It was basically taking the Panspermia  Theory where a Ancient Comet or Meteor had collided on Earth Billions of years ago and brought with it, either Basic Building Blocks of Life, or Basic Bacteria and these then Evolved into all the Life we have on Earth. What Prometheus was doing was showing that it was not a Comet/Meteor but the Engineer Sacrificial Scene that provided these Building Blocks.

RS after Prometheus came out said the Engineers came back over and over Evolving us Genetically and Technological and so this is showing us he intended to show us that the Engineers must have came back at certain Periods to Genetically alter some Life on Earth, and further Evolve species like our Ancestors until we arrive at Mankind.

Its the misunderstanding of the Sacrificial Goo, and how it has been explained now that adds to the confusion, my theory all along, well how i interpreted it was the Sacrificial Goo is just a Tool that would allow a Life-Form to have its DNA broken down and become a Pathogen that carries the Sacrifices DNA with it and infects Life with the Sacrifices DNA.. it is a Gene/Splicing Tool.

Few Months after i got this interpretation we saw Spaights Alien Engineers released and his Draft basically shows us how the stuff works...    Spaights Draft there was NO GOO, instead we had NANO-SCARABS, and these were in a Sacrificial Cup, that consumed the Engineer Molecule by Molecule, these Scarabs then flew off into the Air... and latter we see a Early Primate get Bitten by one of these Scarabs and the Scarab injects the Engineers DNA into it and the Primate begins to Transform...  And its indicated that this Process is what created Mankind..   The Scarabs were a Tool to allow the Engineers DNA to be passed onto a Primate to Create a Engineer/Primate Hybrid and thus our Ancestors.

The Urns in Spaights Draft contained Scarabs too, these attack Fifield after he knocks a Urn over, only he does not suffer the same fate as the Sacrificial Engineer (much like Fifield/Worms dont in Prometheus) instead this Fifield is bitten by a Scarab which injects DNA into him and he becomes a Xenomorph Hybrid with Acid Blood... Hence those Scarabs in those Urns must have consumed the DNA of a Xenomorph related Organism.

Prometheus was basically the same, just replace Scarab with GOO.... even the Original Altar had the Sacrificial Cup/Bowl and not a Green Cystal, the Mural of the Deacon in a Cruciform Pose (same pose the Sacrificial Engineer in Spaights Draft had taken after being eaten by the Scarabs)  This leads me to think the Engineers Sacrificed the Deacon Mural Organism to the Goo to create the substance in the Urns.

The Answers had been there in front of out Faces, Reading Alien Engineers helps to make more sense of Prometheus.  But post Production if Prometheus FOX etc went around cutting and editing scenes and even introducing us to a Weyland File to explain the Black Goo that contradicted what we saw on screen.

BigDave

Yes, I’ve read Spaihts’ script and I think it would have become a better movie than Prometheus actually became (It was pretty good, though). I think they should have kept the neomorph because that part was really creepy. Instead, they had to force it in - together with a couple of xenos - in AC.

The scarab part makes more sense in the perspective of sacrifice since the sacrificed (his DNA) is immortalized. In Prometheus, his DNA is broken apart (“He” is no more). In this engineer culture, The Elders might have fooled the ordinary people that the sacrifice is an honour, and they might eventually have rebelled? Perhaps it is one of these rebels we meet in Prometheus?

who knows where they can take this....

The notion that RS referred to the Engineers in Prometheus as Fallen Angels is interesting, does he mean these guys are Demons, as in just their Nature of being Malevolent, or are we seeing a alternative interpretation on the Literal Story of the Fallen Angels, which would imply the Engineers was a Race who Served a higher power/Hierarchy but some of them Rebelled.

I think Prometheus explored these themes, of Creation and Sub-creation and Rebellion.. If we look Literally at GOD this does not have to be any One Faith or Mythos and so we could apply it to Greek Gods too, then we can ask the Question...

Is current Mankind behaving the way these GODS intended? is the Majority of Mankind Serving and Worshiping these GODS the way  they intended?  What Reason was we Created, why did GOD/GODS create us and are we performing to the Needs and Requirements that GOD intended for us?

We can see this theme explored with David..... Mankind (Creator) created Synthetics for certain reasons, we never created Synthetics so they could Evolve to become Sentient, and then conclude why should they Serve Mankind, what makes us Special to have Authority over them... especially when we are In-superior.  Potentially David could lead to our Destruction with the Xenomorph, or David could lead a Rebellion of Synthetics to Overthrow Mankind...    Which would prove a great Hubris to Mankind.

Well Prometheus seems to maybe imply the above Hubris, is what the Engineers had encountered and the Black Goo was their Failed attempt to Prevent their Wayward Creations from becoming a Threat... it would be like in Hindsight, Weyland not created a AI that evolves to become Sentient.

The Interesting thing is that this kind of Hubris of Sub-Creating could stem back even further than the Engineers making them also Creations created for a limited Purpose by their own Creators etc.

When i was working on a Prometheus 2, i was drawn more to the Annunaki kind of Tale as far as the Engineers and their Creators.... and i was going to put in a Sinister Twist as to why the Engineers was created, a Twist that HR Gigers Mural for Alien and his Concepts clearly showed.

BigDave

So this would mean that humans and engineers aren’t evolutionary related (if we go by Prometheus)? The sacrificial engineer’s DNA is broken apart and he only contributes with the building blocks of life (panspermia)? Unless “The Gardeners of Space” later on in the evolution on Earth experiments with species and contributes with their DNA? I wonder if the engineers are responsible for “The Big Five Mass Extinctions” on Earth? :)

I agree that the themes of creation, subcreation, hubris, rebellion, creation going astray etc. (and perhaps disappointment with the creator?) are central to these movies.

When can we enjoy reading your Prometheus 2 script?

Do you guys think Ridley has all of this figured out ahead of time? I feel like he makes it up as he goes depending on who is writing the script. Do you think there is a mythos that has been planned out since the beginning or is the idea evolving over time causing the films to seem more and more disjointed and scattered?  

@Critters5

It appears that way, too many cooks in the Kitchen, a constant changing of the Story, in ways that could contradict what previously had been laid out.

@chli

To a degree yes, i think it depends how you interpret the Creation Tool that was the Sacrificial Goo, i feel the movie shows us or implies that the Engineer Event is what is literally the Panspermia event, but also that this event did not just take its course until we Naturally Evolved from this Event Eons ago..

But the Engineers would come back and tinker with DNA, indeed come back and wipe the slate clean with Events,  so many stages of Evolution are not so Natural Selection, but Desired Selection by the Engineers taking certain Life-Forms and Evolving them, then placing the Results on Earth and watching over the Natural Evolution resulting from their tinkering with the Genetics... then they come back and chose one such Organism and further tinker with it until we have Mankind.

If we take Primate for example.. and look at the Sacrificial Goo as being a way to Mix the DNA of one Organism with another to make a Hybrid... so say a WOLF is introduced to the Sacrificial Goo and breaks down into a Pathogen that now has WOLF DNA, if this was to infect a Human we would end up with like a WEREWOLF like Hybrid.

so if we then take a Primate and introduce Engineer DNA, we could get a Hybrid that looks like say this next image we have Primate Stage 1 where Engineer DNA is introduced to Evolve to Stage 2 then Natural Evolution occurs until Stage 3 or 4 then Engineer DNA is introduced again to Evolve to Stage 4/5 and then Naturally Progresses to Modern Man.

This is what i read into RS comments about how the Engineers came to Earth over and over to Evolve us Genetically and Technologically, its what clues in Prometheus showed me and the kind of theory i was exploring with my Prometheus 2 daft.

As far as events like Great Mass Extinctions then yes i do think RS was going to explore these as Engineer related, he did just prior to AC mention how the Engineers would wipe the slate clean..  The Source i had back in Feb 2015 even suggested those above the Engineers have the Power/Technology to Shape Worlds and bring about Disasters like Floods, Ice Ages and more Disastrous events as ways to wipe the slate clean and that all such Events recorded in Biblical Stories actually happened, just not to Mankind as on Earth.   Thus hinting that the Engineers are a previous Generation or their is a previous Generations of Mankind that link us and the Engineers..   The source was very ambiguous and not forthcoming with Direct Answers, but tease a Massive Curve-ball, which as  i interpret it seems to point the Engineers as being just previous incarnations of David while those above the Engineers are perhaps previous incarnations of Mankind.

The sources information was pretty ambiguous and seemed puzzling way back in early 2015, but there are some very interesting Concepts for AC that could shed some light to what they was suggesting.

"When can we enjoy reading your Prometheus 2 script?"

Sadly i think never, as i abandoned it and it was more of a Broad Synopsis, with some Scenes i started to evolve into drafts, but i abandoned it mid 2014 because i could just not figure our ONE true way to explore the Engineers Connections, i had a broad idea which branched off into different ways, which conflicted some of what i was going to cover.. i just could not concentrate on a SINGLE aspect as far as what lies beyond the Engineers.   I had many ideas but could not come up with one i liked.

I feel FOX had the same problem when working on Prometheus 2 due to the Bold Plot.

My draft mainly covered interaction and Philosophy behind David and Dr Shaw, touching upon what is Creation and what constitutes a Soul, and a Agenda by Weyland and why he created David.  It indeed seemed to be a bit too much Blade Runner in parts than Alien.

Touched upon the Merger, which was a Deal struck between the heads of Yutani and Weylands Nephew for control of the company if Yutani Assassinated the Hier to Weyland Company (Miss Vickers, but was a Twist).

Lets just spoil a bit and say, it involved Female Android vs Android Action, in a Twist that Vickers on Earth was a Robot, revealed as she beat off Yutani Geisha Assassin Androids, the clues was there in how Vickers put up a fight against these Synthetics, and then revealed after she defeated them she had a cut and bleed white milk lol

Thus a Synthetic has no Rights, and the company would then go to Weylands Nephew who in return would lead to a Merger down the line, as Yutani gained all the AI and Synthetic work of Weyland Company and Military and Weylands Nephew would get the Space Projects and Terra-forming.

But Peter Weyland had a plan, which is revealed at the end, but starts in the one Prologue where a earlier David is discussing Life and Creation with Weyland while they play Chess.  Where it is laid down that a Kings reign is not Protected by his Queen (or Hier) or his Knights, or Pawns but the greatest form of Defensive is via the Castle/Rook.... 

Weyland had a Project called Project Rook, which was a Tower on Mars where he was conducting Experiments and Storing AI and his objective was to Transcend a Humans Memories into AI to be uploaded into Synthetic Bodies.. so Weyland would become IMMORTAL... but the AI proved to be flawed and would go Haywire/Insane and so these route for Weyland would not be Immortality but Insanity

Hence his pursuit of Dr Shaws findings to find the real GOD's....

The objective if Operation Rook, would lead to Weylands AI getting loose and reveal it behind the company at latter stages.

BigDave

You can tell that Scott was influenced by Stanley Kubrick’s 2001: A Space Odyssey. There is a higher power intervening in evolution in the form of a black monolith (When the apes learn how to use tools, for example). We also have the A.I. problem where the supercomputer Hal starts to develop emotions and, controlling the ship, becomes a danger to the crew.

I hope you will finish the script. It would be very interesting to read.

chli, Kubrick's 2001 must have an influence in almost all movies we know as sci-fi. its a masterpiece and asks the questions that probably means the most to humanity. why are we here and where did we come from?. its such an interesting take on his view of those answers and I believe Ridley was definitely going the same route with Prometheus. that to me was his whole intent and yet hes changed that route now which is bitterly disappointing to me.

I liked Kubrick's take on how difficult it would be for HAL and the conflict 'he' faced and his inability to deal with mans natural curiosity when things started to go wrong or didn't make sense to them. knowing the true nature of the mission and told under no circumstances to reveal the details to the crew. with no conscience or sense of morality, HAL struggles. so is the difference simply HAL's lack of a soul which stops him from successfully carrying out his duties while interacting with humans? if he had a soul would he have been able to have found a more peaceful solution? 

Indeed....  the influences from 2001 are great....

Sadly i think its a shame we may never get to see RS vision as far as where he could have taken this, because they (FOX) felt a Alien Prequel means they have to Nail in how Literally the Event of Prometheus would Tie in directly to ALIEN

Ridley Scott is not young, we are at least 2 movies from ALIEN... if RS makes the next movie which is a set up to be a Alien Prequel something that is actually not a Alien Prequel... i.e does not even cover the Xenomorph or those Embryos... i think its a risk and if this U-Turn again happens and the movie disapoints, i think its curtains for the Franchise... so the Xenomorph and how it eventually ends up on the Derelict has to be covered.

Which then means after this has been done and we see how Davids Creation ends up on the Derelict, then we can indeed explore those Space 2001 influenced themes in more detail...  and maybe touch upon the Big Picture that RS had in mind.

The concern is how many years time would this be?   I would say the Prequels to Set up Alien would take place over the next 4-5 years.  The Question is would RS be in the right Frame of Mind and Fitness to proceed with his Philosophical Plans when he is Aged 84+

ali81

Yes, if HAL hadn't been given a contradictory programming he wouldn't be malfunctioning? Maybe a human (but do we have a soul?) would have coped with it better? On the other hand, they give HAL's behaviour a human interpretation: He breaks down "mentally" and gets “paranoid”. And he becomes dangerous, just like David . . .

BigDave

I have a feeling that there will be only one more prequel which ties the whole shebang to Alien (6 was perhaps an example of hubris?).

Well it was interesting to see Ridley Scotts comments,  after Prometheus he said there would be a sequel, this soon changed to maybe needing TWO... 

Then we get to AC and RS informs us he intends to do a new Trilogy and it appears he meant this was Alien Covenant and TWO sequels before we get to the Back Door of ALIEN, and RS even a number of times confirmed it would be TWO more movies before we connect to Alien.

The concern for me was when he said he could do another 6 movies and he wanted to take this into a War of the Worlds kind of Scenario.....   I feel this would be hard to do unless every aspect of Production and Casting and Shooting was Near Perfect.... especially if the Xenomorph plays a role in each one as how can we have 6 more Xenomorph movies without the Beast Getting Cooked.

However... Prometheus opened up the Universe, the back ground to the other movies we often overlook because we associate them with Xenomorphs and Ripley, also open up the Franchise. You only need to look at Call from Alien Resurrection to know there is a bit of History on Earth etc with Synthetic Rebellions and Synthetics creating Synthetics and a host of Philosophical Questions, and who knows if these are things that Ridley Scott had taken on board when working on Prometheus, because this touched upon Creation, Sub-Creation Synthetic Rebellion and Synthetic Sub Creating (AC), Call was Religious yet she was a Synthetic with no Soul.... certainly see a bit of Dr Shaw with her.

So yes the ALIEN Franchise has the Potential to expand many movies, we have Weylands History, and Agenda, we have a History of the Synthetics and Flaws and Problems they caused, we have the Rivalry and then Merger of Weyland and Yutani Companies...   Never mind the Engineers Plot as Creators of Mankind etc and how this opens up the Franchise to explore and wonder how many other Worlds have been seeded with Intelligent life, who created the Engineers, where does the Sacrificial Goo and Black Goo come from.. Never mind the other Creations that could come from this... which are not limited to Davids experiments and what the Engineers had been doing on LV-223.

So yes another 6 Movies, potential War of the Worlds... YES.. i could see this, but these have to explore some of the other things as i put in the previous Paragraph and not the Xenomorph... not for 6 movies.

The Problem is contradictions and Plot Holes as far as the Alien Franchise, and so Ridley Scotts 6 movie Plan could come unstuck... because most of Mankind in the Alien Franchise were completely oblivious to who the Engineers are, and most of the stuff Prometheus and Alien Covenant opened up.

UNLESS......

Ridley Scotts Plans are a Re-boot where his Prequels and Alien are the RS Canon and allows him to create a Alternative Story set after Alien, in effect maybe removing Aliens as Canon, just as Blomkamps Alien 5 would have done with Alien 3 and Alien R.

Thats the only way that makes sense to me.....  as to keep all those as Canon, and then bring in another 6 movies could well lead to some conflicts.

"....because most of Mankind in the Alien Franchise were completely oblivious to who the Engineers are, and most of the stuff Prometheus and Alien Covenant opened up."

I think most of this can be explained by the AI controlling what humans know. Returning false positives and faulty info from planet surveys. Basically lying to humans to protect them.

Besides, 95% of humans want to sit in a hot tub, drinking beer and eating pizza.

Pretend your dog is human and you are AI.............Your dog is running around crapping everywhere, getting in fights, being lazy..sleeping all day...bark, bark, BARK!....THIS is what AI must think of humans?

Indeed, this is something that i have mentioned before, i wonder why i never put it in the replies, or did i?

So yes the only way it could make a bit of sense, is if RS is going the whole, Matrix kind of angle and Mankind is not in the know to what is happening and the AI is pulling the strings. Which is something the Source i had kind of hinted a bit at, but then the Matrix stuff could been regarding the Engineers.

My Prometheus 2 daft i abandoned did touch upon the AI, and was leading up to the actual reason for David 8 was that Peter Weyland was attempting to Perfect Synthetics, and then attempting to upload his own Memories and Experiences to a AI and Transfer this to a Synthetic... Weyland would then have conquered Death.

This was to be called operation Rook, (Chess Piece) but the AI had flaws and a uploaded Human Mind in the form of a AI had glitches and Weylands AI would become unstable even showing symptoms like Hal from 2001 but much worse until, the AI Weyland Program would just go completely Mental and break down.

So Weyland was at a bust... and turned to Dr Shaws findings in the hope of meeting the Real Gods.

The idea i was toying for in a 3rd movie would be to introduce how a Corrupt Weyland AI would spread around and infect the AI of the company, but that in the End perhaps Davids AI would upload itself to the System.

My Prometheus sequel plans would have required 3 movies to actually cover all the bases, as far as Weylands Agenda, Davids, the Engineers, their creators and the Company Merger and who is running it.

BigDave I like Alien:Covenant....But I'd rather have watched your Prometheus 2.

I'd also like to think David told the Prometheus crew and Shaw that he sent a warning signal, with all the LV223 info back to Earth....But he probably lied and didn't......Humanity getting hold of the black goo would be a disaster on many levels! Not that he would mind if humans wiped themselves out....It's the fact they might actually use it in the correct way.

I think as David is more superior to Mankind, and he apparently is Perfectly Safe in handling the Black Goo, he may feel this TOOL was and is way more too powerful for Humans to use, and even the Engineers.  It would be likely that he would see his creation, and then the discovery of LV-223 and the Pathogen that the Engineers could not control and fell foul to... where as David would not... as being some kind of Destiny for David.

I think one of the things RS will be exploring more in the Sequel would indeed been Davids Psychology and how David is evolving emotionally to see himself as some kind of God, having a Divine Right to this Substance, and i feel we will see him indeed getting that Wanna-be God Complex that we see Weyland had.

David has grown Sentient, he knows he is Superior to Humans, he knows the Engineers are Mortal after all and its their Knowledge and Technology that gives them Power, apart from those on LV-223 being Physically Stronger, David would see himself as Superior to the Engineers.   And knowing that the Black Goo is a Powerful tool of the Engineers that they could not control, yet David has no worries about being infected by it, would make David no doubt think that it was his Destiny to gain this Power.... 

I think the whole set up for David now, could be that he would aspire to be the NEW King.

Something else: Have you noticed the snowy mountain in the distance (second image)? Doesn't that imply an earthlike climate? We know that the crew of Prometheus couldn't breathe outside the ship, but they could inside the temple. The engineers had some kind of terra-forming device inside the temple, but it was open towards the climate outside (the outer door was open).

I just at this point really think Ridley will get funding for one film and that film will feel even more rushed than AC with a lackluster connection to Alien 1. I think we keep getting our hopes up that Ridley still has Alien 1 quality up his sleeve but I don't think he does. I think Awakening will be more of the same. 

Indeed chli

The place was Terra-formed to some degree, the Atmosphere outside was Hostile to Humans but not the Engineers, thats if we take this unused Scene as Canon.

A Question to ask if we take this image as Canon, would be CAN those Engineer/Beings on Planet 4 had survived on LV-223.

The Answer to this would be interesting as it would certainly be a good reason why the Temple Complexes had been Terra-formed.

The other Logical Reason would be so Humanoid Creations or any other Creations the Engineers Experiment on (that require a Earth like Atmosphere) would be able to Survive.   It is why for a long time, my conclusion in regards to LV-223 was a Watchers Outpost/Nursery aka Greenhouse where they Evolved and Tested their Creations (included Mankind).

But this was way way prior to AC, and after AC this can still apply, but also it could now be that LV-223 is where the Engineers Hierarchy would come and collect those beings on Planet 4 and maybe take them to LV-223 to be Sacrificed.

@Critters5

Indeed it would seem that to get from AC to Alien with just one Movie would mean things would have to become very contrived (Forced) into a single movie, much like all the Things AC was trying to cover simply was too much to do justice in a under 2hr 45 min Movie.

But then going for a TWO movie route where the next one deviates from the Plan too much, which is if David Creates the Xenomorphs, we have yet to see how they end up in Thousands (Eggs) on the Derelict.

Then should the next movie disappoint, it could leave the Franchise Dead in the Water without us arriving at a conclusion.