Biomechanical: which metal(s) would you think David used if any?

ooooooooh! This is a fascinating question, and is smack-bang within my area of expertise, Let me think about it. Ill be back with a long answer.

My first instinct is something like an Iridium/Zirconium alloy if we are talking Xenomorph Biomechanicals. Dense, extremely corrosion-resistant, high boiling point and hard would make for excellent Xeno exo-skeleton. It would be heavy as all hell though, with Iridium being the 2nd most dense element behind Osmium. 

Interestingly, the Zirconium would make the alloy more ductile and less brittle, but as an opacifer would make the exoskeleton opaque, like the Neomorphs, but black.   

I knew someone with chemical knowledge would respond. 

One thing is how the Xeno could be so agile with a chemical make up that would seem rather heavy.

Another consideration is David would likely have had to somehow find and and refine those elements from the planet he was on.......

.....or to paraphrase Bishop from Aliens- It is something we haven't seen yet.

Interestingly, the Zirconium would make the alloy more ductile and less brittle, but as an opacifer would make the exoskeleton opaque, like the Neomorphs, but black.   

The neomorph seemed independent of David except for the goo bomb. The neomorph seemed biological imo. Interestingly, a face hugger burned the face of a forgettable character but left Oram's face unblemished. There seemed no reason to believe the face huggers were somehow different when they were in the same room. OMFG- another plot hole. Going OT on my own thread. Sorry. I am interested to hear IRaptus expand his idea on the OT! (hands mic to IRaptus). 

Titanium is also an excellent choice as seen in it's modern day use regarding a wide range of skeletal implants.

Insofar as other metals, well, it's all a matter of bio/molecular chemistry and cellular processes. If you want to see some truly wack biological processes have a look at the extremophiles in general, especially the wide assortment that live in very close proximity to oceanic hydrothermal vents and have silicon-based friendly bacteria living in their gut akin to how our own beneficial bacteria inhabit our digestive systems.

ALSO, there's a range of 'synthetic' elements, some are metals or have metallic allotropes, and while we haven't found them occuring from natural processes as-yet, there's NO reason why they cannot exist as by-products of Hypernovae and neutron-star collisons within nebulae.

I know rocks, and inorganic chemistry to do with rocks.... So Im probably barking up the wrong tree here relating it to biomechanics.

In the realm of inorganic geochemistry - typically the nature of the beast is that strong, hard and chemically robust structures are heavy. very heavy. To be able to support the molecular structure required for stable and resistant bonds.

But obviously a creature the size of Xenomorph would not want to weigh tonnes, as would be the case of an Iridium/Zirconium exoskeleton supporting a ~7 foot beast. 

The xenomorph is nimble, agile and able to cling to walls, ceilings and overhanging structures with ease. So its unlikely to weigh the same as a freakin truck.

So you'd want something light, ductile and with some elasticity for movement. But also incredibly tough and able to withstand the Acid X that the Xenomorph contains.

Silicon has long been theorised as an alternate to carbon-based lifeforms, like all us good fellows on earth. It is in the same group as carbon and shares similar properties. Silicon is stronger than carbon based structures, whilst not being ridiculously heavy like transitional base metals. But also more brittle.

It is also very resistant to acid!! Aqua Regia (HCl and HNO3) breaks down most base-metals (excluding silicon, gold and the PGE elements...and strontium does some weird shit but thats another story).

Silicon requires 4-acid digestion (Nitric, Hydrochloric, HF and Perchloric acids) to break down. It also has seriously high boiling point 3250 degrees Celcius to be exact. 

However silicon has some major drawbacks. I'll call on Wikipedia to explain....sorry, lazy. 

The silicon atom has been much discussed as the basis for an alternative biochemical system, because silicon has many chemical properties similar to those of carbon and is in the same group of the periodic table, the carbon group. Like carbon, silicon can create molecules that are sufficiently large to carry biological information.^[10]

However, silicon has several drawbacks as an alternative to carbon. Silicon, unlike carbon, lacks the ability to form chemical bonds with diverse types of atoms as is necessary for the chemical versatility required for metabolism. Elements creating organic functional groups with carbon include hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus, sulfur, and metals such as iron, magnesium, and zinc. Silicon, on the other hand, interacts with very few other types of atoms.

Silicanes (Hydrogen and Silicon compounds) are highly reactive to water and would require an alternate (ammonia?) as a metabolic medium.

Interestingly Kane noted in the Derelict egg chamber an ammonia smell.... 

Perhaps the humble Xenomorph has a Silicon exoskeleton with a non-interacting internal system utilising alternate biochemistry?

Perhaps an organics chemist might know now better molecular compounds, a graphene or resin perhaps?

IRaptus

All great points, gotta say, especially regarding weight.

It's possible to have a Carbon-Silicon hybrid basis for a creature, though such a critter would be extremely, well...Alien. :)

If one starts looking at some of the more interesting biological structures, such as bone and chitin and rhings like oyster and clam shells...adding in a LITTLE appropriate metals yields an order of magnitude increase in strength and resilience without adding much weight.

Blackwinter-witch Titanium would be a great choice!!

As a PGE element it is resistant to acid, and is lighter and more ductile than the others in that group.

The two most useful properties of titanium are corrosion resistance and strength-to-density ratio, the highest of any metallic element.

It is already used frequently in the aerospace industry, and from memory a lot of pins and screws used in bone-repair surgery are titanium based....so that already has the bio-mechanical thumbs up :)

It is pretty reactive to chlorine gas though, and likes to catch fire at a drop of a hat if not protected by TiO....scratch the alien a bit then set it on fire muhahaha. 

Thought: maybe thats why they hate fire.......hmmm

Definitely could be used as an endo-skeleton though! 

Perhaps a Titanium Carbide would be strong, durable, stable and light enough to support a Xenomorph exoskeleton?

This is interesting! 

IRaptus

Use the Titanium within a carbon-silicon matrix akin to cartilage/chitin and there's NP with Oops the alien's on fire. :D
So, you then have an exoskeleton that can withstand the blast of a plasma drive at point-blank range. ;)

Titanium-Boron Carbonate gives you an insanely strong endoskeleton, or if you balance it half-way between Cartilage (High density) and Ossified Tissue (True Bone) then you have phenomenal strength and light-weight with excellent flexibility. OR, use a horn-like material and that makes things simpler and stronger.

Yes, I spend too much time thinking about this stuff :D

Neat solution!! I love it! dk i think you have your answer! Carbon and silicon are everywhere, and boron and titanium are reasonably abundant, just hope David landed near rutile and borax ore deposits lol 

The ICPs in my lab use borosilicate glass to host a 10,000 degree celcius argon plasma.... 

IRaptus

There ya go. :D

It ALWAYS bothered me how the Alien could survive (as it was still intact and moving) when blown out of the shuttle's plasma drive...yet primitive (relatively low-temp) flamethrowers would torch them in ALIENS.

Last time I watched ALIEN, I timed how long it very determinedly clung on inside the venturi with the engines on as Ripley tried to kill it...
NO way would a flamethrower even faze such a creature anymore than warm bathwater would. :)

And given the convo we've been having, the mystery of how it managed that feat now has a credible theory. :)

argon inductively-coupled plasma 8000 °C. Al

although this example is used in spectroscopy (stock image not mine) pulsed plasma ignitions have been the source of basic aerospace thrusters since early soviet space probes days.

IRaptus

Cool pic and interesting historical tidbit!! TY! I have seen some old pics of plasma thruster experiments from the 60's but never thought they went anywhere with them.

I imagine power is the major drawback. The above image plasma flame would be about the size of your thumb and requires 7 Kilowatts to ignite!! Imagine what it would require to move a vessel...even in zero-g!

The Blue-white thrust exhaust from the Narcisuss was textbook Argon plasma though 

Power's not much of a drawback depending on your tech level. If you have advanced fusion, then NP. ;) But, yeah, still takes huge amounts of power...sorta...as even a tiny amount of thrust will still move you/accelerate you...it's a question of how fast you want to accelerate.

The ion drives on the probes and such used these days generate less thrust than the equal of a sheet of copier paper resting on your hand...but they can operate for months and acceleration piles up the numbers.

Yeah, they got a great effect using floodlights and firehoses it turns out..and unknowingly managed a credible plasma drive effect :D Love it when things go that way :)

But who says he will use any metal at all? maybe the missing parts of the Xeno are plastics ... or other synthetic organic stuff. 

And if metal was to be used the xeno would need to eat it to grow. Ok, let's presume that such metal exists on the Nostromo, but in the rest of the series?

But must likely, the biomechanical part of the riddle will be solved by David being face-hugged himself.

The above are wonderful explanations that I can understand contributors, thank you. Good angle dk with the raw materials we have to work with.

Biomechanical Organism

What I got from the Alien novelization is rather light.

“The combination of the way those cells are aligned with what they are composed of adds up to something that defies all the rules of standard biology.

Those silicated cells, for example. They're metal bonded. The result is what gives the creature such resistance to adverse environmental conditions. anything new besides the silicates in the double dermis?”

Alien novelization, page 123.

ignorantGuy, there was a similar condition ("David being face-hugged" above) described in Alien: The Cold Forge but the affect was unsuccessful for the face-hugger because the android was synthetic.

On the other hand, if Walter is part organic, that Construct AI might be the "bridge" technology from organic to biomechanical...but who knows?

Left vague for debate? I'm pretty sure about that detail.

"I know rocks, and inorganic chemistry to do with rocks.... So Im probably barking up the wrong tree here relating it to biomechanics."

I think its best we ask FIFIELD lol

Some nice replies here, but i am not sure how we could Merge Machine with Organic matter, not as far as becoming WHOLE/ONE i think we could get Mechanical Components to to create Limbs and Stuff so we get Cyborgs...   Other than that we have Synthetic Robots, such as David but also Terminators.  But the Xenomorph seems to be more Organic and Agile.

The Beast was Truly ALIEN in its Origin at the point of ALIEN, due to HR Gigers Bio-Mechanical Style, and so it would take a very Advanced Ancient Race to Create such a Beast.. or a Advanced Machine.

PROMETHEUS began to take us on this Journey, were we could see Xenomorph Clues, but the results where ORGANIC leaving the Bio-Mechanical Nature a Mystery as the Xenomorph was more Mechanical than the Engineers Suits and the Deacon/Hammerpede.

However the Suits could connect with Technology and the Space Jockey Suits especially looked more Synthetic.

So its open to debate.... but we have to consider the PATH we are on, in that David Created the Xenomorph and YET his Xenomorph is more Organic.. but its getting there...  It appears a number of Genetics from Organisms with a Exo-Skeleton came into play.

The Xenomorph (Especially Aliens) appeared to have some Exo-Skeleton similar to say Scorpions.  But the 1979 Big Chap appeared to have some Mechanical Aesthetic.

Looking at the Set-up i think the Logical Conclusion is that a more ADVANCED Synthetic will come into play, that is a Synthetic Construct like ELDEN from Fire and Stone... and looking at WALTER he appears his Construction is getting more closer to that than David.

So i think the WALTER-MORPH or similar will be the route to the Xenomorphs Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic. 

I wonder if David Experiments on a Walter or Similar type Synthetic.  (This Organism then Rebels against him)

Or he uploads his SOUL into a  Walter or Similar type Synthetic. (suffers a Hubris as he can then get infected)

Or the Engineers utilize a Synthetic Similar to Walter/David in a Walter Body, to Create the Xenomorph. (to their Hubris)

Ridley Scott claims the next movie is more about AI, and i think he is going the route that AI gets out of control and starts to Run the Show, Call the Shots and Mankind is not in the know (like Matrix)

Now if these AI become interesting in the Xenomorph as it was created by one of their own, but the Synthetic Construct Versions can be infected by the Xenomorph and Black Goo, this would be a Good Reason to NO-LONGER produce Bio-Mechanical Part Organic/Synthetic versions and stick to the Synthetics.

But INDEED some very good replies on here, looking at which kinds of Metals would be useful/beneficial to creating a Xenomorph like Bio-Mechanical Life-Form.

Great summation comment above BigDave. 

"So i think the WALTER-MORPH or similar will be the route to the Xenomorphs Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic.

I wonder if David Experiments on a Walter or Similar type Synthetic. (This Organism then Rebels against him)"

Ah, BigDave, I see a couple of ways that could work out:

1) Walter would almost certainly prepare to meet David again similar to how David prepared to address the Engineers after they removed his head. Walter, "Nothing to talk or cry about, I must wipe you out David." 

2) Or, they (AI) are on the same page.

Ridley Scott's Comments Regarding the next Film

A movie about AI could cover how the "biomechanical concerns" (below) came about and how the Engineer civilization synthesized the mutagen. Directing the film toward a major component of the story now, mutagen origin, could include beasts that we can't imagine that the Engineers developed over eons opposed to David scraping together a lab in a cave. And certainly those the Engineers answer to or may be in conflict with.

Fifield, yes. I guess Im like a Neanderthal version of Fifield lol. 

Me, bash rock. Rock has pretties! Hazaa!

I found it hard to read that writing, Ingeniero as i have with most of Davids Notes...

The Xenomorph in Alien Covenant looks similar in some ways (Head) but the Body is not quite there yet.. Ridley Scott had indicated the Xenomorph in Alien Covenant has some way to go yet.

But to be fair when looking at the Xenomorph, the one in Alien Covenant is only really different to the one in ALIEN and ALIENS as far as looking more Organic than Mechanical, yet in Alien 3 and Alien R and the AVP movies the Xenomorph looks more Organic than Machine.

I still think the WALTER-MORPH is what will give us our Final Xenomorph, i just hope we are not going to see David upload himself to a Walter Model (which i think is FINE) but then to have him be the route to the Xenomorph (which on its own i guess is FINE) but i do Fear that David will upload himself to a Walter Model or Newer Synthetic thats Bio-Mechanical (which is FINE) but then i am waiting for us to be shown he is off to LV-223 to Mass Produce his Xenomorphs and then sets off to Earth in the Pilot Chair and gets infected by one of his Face Huggers, so he becomes the Xenomorph Origin/Space Jockey then reveal a Xenomorph Bio-Mechanical Queen that then causes that Acid Hole on the Derelict and disappears to the Cavern below.

That would SUCK!