Time travel in AC2? No! Already in AC. Mad explanation.

Gavin

But if I did the same in using alternate/parallel reality time travel I would travel back into the past of another reality and kill that realities version of my father, thus undoing the possibility of an alternate version of myself in that reality.

This. But kill father not before conceiving, but after. Engineers were destroyed after the creation of makind. And in this, second, time line - humans evolved and progressed on their own. And David (with Covenant), xenomorphs (Quadrilogy) and Derelict are located in second time line. Prometheus, first time line, never have xenomrohps, but have live Engineers.

For example, if I was to travel back in time to kill my father before I was conceived (a simplified version of the grandfather paradox) using causality time travel I would travel back into my own past and undo my existence, hence the paradox.

Yeah, primitive theory, but it might work too. Basically everything is the same as with parallel time lines. Prometheus - first path and then was erased; AC and AQ second path. Paradox with Prometheus expedition (father role) has simple explain. As one clever person said: paradoxes are only in heads, they don't exist in nature.

David, Shaw and Covenant get into the past and POP - they they separated from Prometheus and exist as standalone objects without beginning. Any actions and changes of the future will not affect their existence... Huh... That's really can work!

One condition still need: David destroyed Engineers after human creation. But this need not for exist of David, etc, but for... human race availability.

This is different formula than in Back to the Future and Terminator. The third theory of Time Travel. Thanks for idea.

The problem with alternate/parallel time travel is that it requires the existence of a multiverse of infinitely generated and generating parallel realities, which by their very nature seem like an impossibility - what purpose would so many universes serve.

In reality - yes, with time travels, space compression/distortion and other sci-fi magic. But we love this things!

What? I'm confused here.

I'm sorry you misinterpreted my reply.

You confused me with another person;)

BigDave

I think as long as we dont explore Time-Travel as a Technology of the Engineers, because we could ask WHY not go back and Undo Mankind before we was created?

This is the main reason why I think time-travel is a random (perhaps - frequent) anomaly, not a technology. Engineers just can't use it as they wishes and they don't know - where and when will they go.

and give the Studio a chance to change things like with Terminator.

This is not necessary for the Studio for explain retcons. Well, if time-travel used for plot concept - it's can't be retcon. New Terminator don't use time travel to cancel T3 and T4. They just ignore these movies.

Sorry for going OFF-TOPIC... a little... but i think as i suggested with explaining WHY they never go to LV-223 in the ALIEN Franchise, because it gets Destroyed and this Sends the Derelict back in Time....   i FEEL that similar could work for Blomkamps Alien 5, if the Destruction of Hadleys Hope, Caused a Tear in Space that Caused the Sulaco to Split into TWO Alternative Time Lines.

Well, sorry, but this is strange. Explosions like a time machine... Use nuclear bombs if you want to see dinosaurs. I don't know. I hope that the Derelict doesn't back in time, but is built and loaded in the past.

I think the Arcturians! are something that also has never been explored that could be a avenue to expand upon..I had a idea on how to explore them myself... which connects the Engineers, and also reveals the Arcturian Pootang Parties are not entirely for the Leisure/Pleasure of Humans wanting some Fun/Action but that the Arcturians have a Agenda for the Sexual Relationship.

But having David play a part in the Arcturians is very interesting idea... i applaud you for.. it would be interesting to discover more about this ;)

David is sexually unsatisfied android ;) And he create aliens and arcturians as his dreams.

the Prometheus Franchise opened up a WHOLE Universe of Possibilities, the Virtue that the Engineers Sat-Nav on their ships has other Galaxies means that the Alien Franchise could expand beyond a Star Wars or be similar... in a Galaxy Far Far Away!

May be Milky Way is just a laboratory. Petri dish. For.. who knows? Maybe these creatures from another supercluster! Not from Laniakea! Or far away - from another universe (not parallel)! Unlimited potential, yes.

A lot of Problems have occurred due to the Changes in Plot with Alien Covenant, its complicated things a little.  They could have gone off to a FAR FAR world, and had clues to the Xenomorph without having to have David and Dr Shaw just end up on the Door Step to LV-223/426.

Thus they could have retained the Space Jockey event as Ancient and Certainly NOT related to David's Experiments/Agenda. 

Yes, or they can simply put a xenomorph in story without explaining their origin.

-

My apologies Leto, and thank you for your humility Hypernova.

To help bring the topic back on track...

I once had a similar theory that maybe Alien: Covenant was an alternate reality created by the neutrino blast. In short, I imagined the Juggernaut with David and Shaw went to where he was originally headed (Paradise) and Shaw got the answers she sought, but not necessarily the answers she wanted and as a result was given a choice to die in peace from her contamination from the black goo or instead trigger the neutrino blast and have the events in Alien: Covenant happen where she becomes integral in Davids twisted work to re-create the Xenomorph - to which she picks the latter.

But alas, I could not get the paradox to work.

If you could get the paradoxes to work, Leto, your theory could be a serious contender.

Now THIS is what I like to wake up to and read Haha, I love the theory that Prometheus and the original Alien timelines exist in alternate realities or moments in time. The concept is a real trip, but not impossible. My only hurdle to get over then would be the acknowledgement the Covenant crew had of the Prometheus mission. Unless what you're suggesting is that there are two (or infinite) scenarios whereby the Prometheus mission concludes in different ways.

I do like the theory about time travel with regards to the primitive Engineers, however. The neutrino burst I think is an overlooked plot detail. How right after that burst does Planet 4 become noticable? And Shaw's recording? Honestly  I never thought of it like that, but it makes a lot of sense Leto!

Great topic, upvoted!

Perhaps the neutrino burst somehow protected the Covenant & its internal computer records & that of the memories of its crew from any potential changes in the timeline, should any have occured.

This was said in Star Trek: First Contact about changes to Earth & all of its inhabitants now being Borg when the question was asked by Dr. Crusher: "if there are no people down there then why are We still here?" to which Data responds: "The conditions in the vortex could have shielded Us from the changes in the timeline." If it is true for that scenario in First Contact then perhaps the neutrino blast engulfing the Covenant could, in-turn, be shielding it  from equal changes occuring/emminating from the blasts central point of origin.

This could account for the memory of the Prometheus mission still being fresh in the minds of the Covenant crew & why Prometheus-based content/information would still be found stored within the Covenants internal memory systems & data records/mission overview/s, ect.

&, what if We discover that David, in some twisted way that has not yet come-to-pass or some event He is involved in that has yet to occur, was Himself  responsible for activating & "detonating" the neutrino burst in the first place? Think how He dropped those Black Liquid bombs upon that Engineer City but instead, He's dropping some kind of Temporal Bomb just ahead of the Covenants spacial trajectory that results in the neutrino blast wave off its bow.

Perhaps there is a motive of His We are not yet fully aware of nor its consequential effects except the after-glow of the neutrino burst.

Maybe He's experimenting again, taking things: NEXT LEVEL status!

Perhaps He's trapped them ALL & the local surrounding area of space/time in a causality-loop of some kind. Endlessly repeating the same moment. If not that, then certainly may have had some hand in the neutrino "event" itself & its intended/unintended consequences.

There is some point in the future We have yet to get to which could highlight this entire cause & effect event.

The whole proposed Prequel "Trilogy" could be an alternate timeline superimposed upon the current one that We are all familiar with & thus Prometheus & Alien: Covenant could serve as a soft reboot of the entire Alien franchise.

Instead of LV-426, We get LV-223... or We share the same timeline but some loop-the-loop event has occured along the way that interrupts the forward flow in the time stream regarding the unforseen neutrino burst from the point-of-view of the Covenant crew.

"Well, sorry, but this is strange. Explosions like a time machine... Use nuclear bombs if you want to see dinosaurs."

Exactly i agree as far as any proposed use of  such a Plot Twist to pass for say Alternative Alien  3 ==> Resurrection, compared to a Blomkamps Alien 3 never happened.  For reasons as i think you indicated, that is surely Hadleys Hope Destruction would NOT be powerful enough to Cause a Tear in Space and Time!

Because indeed IF we took that explanation, then they could come up with other Alternative Time-Lines via the Nostromo Destruction that gives us ALIENS but a alternative leads to a alternative ALIEN sequel with a alternative Ripley!  Because indeed if Hadleys Hope Destruction was Powerful enough to AFFECT Space/Time then Why-Not the Nostromo Destruction, and then you have to look at the FUTURE of Military..

At some point Mankind will TEST a Atomic Weapon in Space that would make our Current Atomic Weapons look like a Fire Cracker, and IF Massive Scale Atomic Blasts like the Hadleys Hope Detonation could cause such Space Anomalies, we cant assume the Military in the ALIEN Universe has Never Detonated something as Powerful in Space before, and so surely would have detected such a Effect.... and used it to open up Alternative Dimensions etc...

So yeah that idea is something i would HOPE is never explored....   However... with the Derelict LV-223 Destruction i was pondering a Engineer Weapon that was so FAR more Destructive than anything we can imagine..   some Technology that could Cause a Tear in Space.

This is one idea i had as far as expanding on the Engineers, as far as WHO are above them... all based of when Ridley Scott proposed a Number of Months before the Alien Covenant Announcement...  he had said.. 

" If engineers are the forerunners of us, and therefore were creators of life forms in places that were possible for biology to function, who created that? Where's the big boy?”

He also added about IF the Big Bang was a Accident, and mentioned that Stephen Hawkings thought it might not be.

From this i wondered was Ridley Scott implying there is some Big Boy, some Greater Force above the Engineers that allow for the Creation of Worlds, Galaxies?

so i wondered what if a Technology could do this, and so i looked at the EGG on the Alien Poster and thought what if there was this, and its like the Cosmic Egg Theory, were some Egg like Device could be used to Cause the Creation of Stars... or even Galaxies...  could such a Technology also be used to Create a Super-Nova like amount of Destruction, or even on a smaller scale... that COULD cause a Tear in Time and Space?

Which could account for the Destruction of LV-223 and said a escaping Ship back Thousands of Years and Crash Lands on LV-426.

However this is just a case of thinking HOW can we repair the damage caused by the U-Turn to give us Alien Covenants Plot!

My opinion?   The Derelict/Space Jockey Event should have been left a Mystery or given clues to show us that it was a ANCIENT EVENT.... and so YES.. David created the Xenomorph was a Bad Bad Move if you ask me.

My BIGGEST Problem with for instance having Movies Created as Alternatives like a Blomkamps Project.. and especially if some Alternative Paradox explanation was given...  Is where does Disney then STOP?

It could Open the Door to basically Create Alternative Prequels, Alternative Sequels to Prior Movies.. and EVEN a Reboot of ALIEN could not be ruled out.

But thats just my concern and opinion, i know such things may-not bother others, i think especially if it allows for Disappointing Movies/Plots to be Re-done in a different way.

In Hindsight... some movies were not ideal.... for various reasons, for various fans, but i think they should be respected and not taken from Canon... but Canon should also be down to each persons personal taste.   The only things i see as Non-Canon are mainly None Official Novels to the Movies and AVP.

I accept Alien Covenant... but i surely hope they do a better job with any sequel.  But i think its unlikely this would be the case as it seems the Prequels are the Least of Disney's interest at the moment.

PS... sorry for going Off-Topic.

Good point Big Dave... If Fox were already planning and willing to get behind a concept that would give an alternate sequel to Aliens with Blomkamp's Alien 5... then it's not totally out of the realm of possibility to assume Covenant and Prometheus introduced time travel or alternate timelines.

I wonder, if a time displacement event did occur with that neutrino burst (possibly) setting the Covenant mission back I don't know how many years in the past or put it years into the future perhaps, but lets say it's the past... Could ORIGAE 6 actually be a "Pre-Historic/Ancient" LV-223 in its prime developing civilization phase or even LV-426 during its  developing times of the past. 

HYPERNOVA

I think - yes! LV-223 has an atmosphere (with CO2), but in the past - with clean air.

And what's more - LV-223 Engineers themselves can be a humans who have been modified by David. BD's Star Childrens.

And they want destroy humans because David gave them an order. And good explained for DNA-match.

BigDave

What do you think?

"Could ORIGAE 6 actually be a "Pre-Historic/Ancient" LV-223 in its prime developing civilization phase or even LV-426 during its  developing times of the past"

This has been speculated before, but i would say 100% No, by Virtue that Origae-6 is  about 8X Further from Earth than Planet 4 was and Planet 4 appeared to be within Close Proximity to the Zeta 2 System.  So i would speculate that Origae-6 would also be 7-8X Further away than LV-426.

@Chris

I think using the Neutrino Burst as a way to open up the Potential for Paradoxes/Multi-Verses and Time-Travel could WORK... its not something i would be a Fan of though!

But if we consider what a Neutrino Burst is, these types of Activity are NOT limited to a Super Nova... they can be detected from other Nuclear Activity that is happening in a STAR.  And so any other means to Produce the Energy on a Atomic Scale that a STAR has could produce Neutrino Waves too.

This could open up the Potential of a Energy Weapon/Technology that the Engineers or their Creators would use to Create STARS as some of Ridley Scotts comments seemed to be pointing to more than these Engineers just find Worlds that are Pre-Existing Rocks and then they attempt to Tera-form them.

@Leto

I think its a interesting idea, and i understand some Sci-Fi ideas like Paradoxes are Interesting, i am not a Fan of these being applied to the Alien Franchise, but if done in a interesting way, i would be open to it... and its a case of what would the Majority of Fans like.

I think when looking at my Topic, and Speculating what David would create, then i think indeed what if he Created some Evolved Humanoids that are NOT too far off our Engineers, not saying he created them...  but certainly seeing him Re-Create something similar... 

I think its interesting to see WHY he would do this, and what does he Teach those beings, about their Origins and Religion etc... does he opening tell them they were Human Embryos that he had Ascended to the Next Level of Evolution are are Superior to the Unworthy Race that Humans are?  Does he tell them about Humanity, does he paint them as Barbaric and a Threat... so does he have a Army of these Humanoids who are prepared to defend their world against Humans and Engineers, or are they brought up to be used for the Purpose of WAR against Humanity?

Or does he tell them NOTHING about Mankind, and Proclaim that he is their Creator and their is NO other Creator but HIM?   But for a Species who would Worship David and see him as their God/Leader, we then could ask things like.

What is the potential these beings see themselves as Superior to David and would refuse to accept him/serve him like he had with Mankind?

What happens when Humans or Engineers turn up and the Revelation that David has HELD their True Origins and his own from them?

These are ALL very interesting, but the Problem would be that they would be a bit of a Distraction from ALIEN, because Fans would want to get to the Bottom of the Xenomorph Origins, and WHEN/HOW the Eggs get on the Derelict, and would want to see the Engineers more than David and his World of Evolved Humans...

The expectation is there... and for this you cant blame any Fans because a ALIEN Prefix Prequel has set up to introduce the Xenomorph, and so it HAS to be introduced and i feel it WOULD be introduced... its case of would Fans want to have to have 2 hours before we get to see the Xenomorph Return?

So you have to have a Balancing Act to have such a Plot like this, but also have the Xenomorph Involved... and so any Movie Next would have to have the Xenomorph involved to some degree, and set up a more Heavily Involved Presence in the sequels.

If most Fans wont sit through a movie that has nothing to do with Xenomorphs, if this Disappoints, then its a Hard Push to commit to a continuation..   By Virtue of teasing a Direct Prequel route, you HAVE to have the Xenomorph play a role.

But as far as what you propose Leto... that David Creates the Engineers, in a way thats interesting Curve-ball, in another way it would maybe make the Creation of Engineers being about David, similar to how UN-ALIEN the creation of the Xenomorph was by David.

I would prefer David had Re-Created/Evolved his own Xenomorph, and David Re-Creates/Evolves his own Humanoid Super Humanoids....

Potentially say the Engineers Creators Return and use their Xenomorph and themselves vs Davids Xenomorph and Enhanced Children could be that WAR OF THE WORLDS that Ridley Scott hinted at.

Mankind are Powerless in this... but after these Races Destroy Each other.... Mankind Decide to Obtain the Weapons (Xenomorphs) for themselves could open up the whole Back Story to ALIEN and Special Order 937

But none the less Paradoxes and Ideas provided in this Topic are very imaginative and i applaud that.

Lone said "what's the difference between Ripley being in cryosleep for 57 years set against travelling forward in time 57 years?"

I am not a fan of time travel for this franchise but you make a good point here and could agree as long as time travel could only be forward. 

Guys, I just thought of something....

Planet 4 never showed up on any scans until after the Neutrino burst. Is that a clue or even proof that the burst caused the Covenant to travel to another point in time & space?

Ricks: It appears to be a main sequence star, a lot like our own, but old...very old.

Daniels: How did we miss this we scanned the entire sector?

AHH Yes! It's possible!

@Lone

Indeed that is a good question, HOW did they miss this System/Planet?

Back in early 2015 when i passed on information from the Source i had, i had mentioned that apparently the Engineers had Technology that could Tera-form Worlds and Affect the Climate and Weather and they hinted that they could use this Technology to HIDE Planets, well cause distortions that could mask a worlds Technology... so it was like Severe Storms could act as a Communication/Scanner Barrier.

So while such Technology helps to shape a World, it can also be used to Cloak it to a degree.

I think we kind of see Evidence of this with Planet 4.

In earlier drafts the World was Surrounded by a like Halo/Ring that was Technology that it was indicated would HIDE the Planet.

I think when it comes down to the Neutrino Burst that Damaged the Ship, the Neutrinos would NOT do this but the Shockwave from a Event that would Produce the Neutrinos would so some ATOMIC Event had occurred within so many Light Years from the Covenant..  The Birth or Destruction of a Star or some Massive Energy Release by a Star or something that would have similar Atomic Energy

Could such a Event had knocked the Covenant through a Tear in Space and Produced a Alternative Time-Line?

Maybe... but i am not so sure such a Event would have affected David/Shaw too because we can assume they had been on Planet 4 for 9-10 years prior.

But as FAR as placing the Covenant in a Future timeline.. maybe... But i think we still run into the Problem of how would this effect Planet 4 too... as it was 7 weeks away from the Covenant, so if the EVENT had thrown the Covenant into the Future, we have to ask would its Radius Reach Planet 4 and throw that into the Future too?

So at that Moment David had been on Planet 4 for 10 years, the Covenant had left Earth for about 1 Year... but this Event then THRONE both Planet 4 and the Covenant like 10, 20, 50, 100, 200 or so years into the Future? 

Maybe that could work!

@BigDave

It does appear that the Engineers had that capability when you consider what happened with the storm on LV-223, after the seal to/atmosphere of the ampule room was breached.

I was thinking more along the lines of the Covenant being thrown backwards in time, perhaps that could explain the more primitive nature of the Engineer population of Planet 4. Bit of an unsatisfactory stretch though!

Also David could have been lying or mistaken about how long he had been on the planet, he was pretty damaged before being patched up by Shaw & in need of decent maintenance.

The problem with that is how do you then work David & Shaw into the timeline, unless, by some convenient coincidence the same thing happened to their Juggernaut? Again, that is stretching things a bit too far to the point where the story gets messed up & not in a good way!

Don't forget about the the lyrics to Country Roads- 

"Take me home to the place where I belong".

I don't think the song was there by accident. It seems to suggest something about origins.

Good point dk! ;)

Back in early 2015 when i passed on information from the Source i had, i had mentioned that apparently the Engineers had Technology that could Tera-form Worlds and Affect the Climate and Weather and they hinted that they could use this Technology to HIDE Planets, well cause distortions that could mask a worlds Technology... so it was like Severe Storms could act as a Communication/Scanner Barrier.

So while such Technology helps to shape a World, it can also be used to Cloak it to a degree.

I think we kind of see Evidence of this with Planet 4.

In earlier drafts the World was Surrounded by a like Halo/Ring that was Technology that it was indicated would HIDE the Planet.

I don't think that a Hide Technology is a good explanation. I mean - HOW the Covenant crew could detect and scan the Planet 4? Shouldn't the Cloak technology work better in close proximity to the Planet 4? There is no point. And in my next topic I explain this and tell why Time-Travel can be possible as part of the plot of prequels.

"perhaps that could explain the more primitive nature of the Engineer population of Planet 4."

AND

"I don't think the song was there by accident. It seems to suggest something about origins."

There is a bit to read into that, when we also consider the Court Yard and throw some Concepts in... but i think it would be a LONG post that would be a bit off topic. We seem to be seeing a Reoccurring Theme of Creation, Sub-Creation and Hubris when your Creation is made more Superior/Perfect and what happens when they deem themselves superior and more worthy than their Creator. And it appears this Theme would continue with Alien Covenants sequel... well maybe that was the Plan.

@LETO

Totally agree... such Technology as far as Storms could make it hard to detect whats on the Surface, what Continents are there, how much Water maybe... certainly hide any signs of Life or Civilization.

But to HIDE a whole Planet is a Stretch!

The Problem arises by Virtue of having a Direct Prequel Plot, where you have to introduce Humans... and so having Planet 4 being closer to Home is the Convenience, and so then they had to come up with a Plot to WHY such a World as Fertile as our own (before Davids Bombardment) has simply never been detected...

Having a World Much Further becomes a Problem... because if the Set-Up is David Unleashes Hell on Paradise, Created his Proto-Xeno, then the Covenant Ship and Crew come in and will play a part in the Continuation of the Xenomorph... where we are looking at 2-3 Movies before we arrive to ALIEN.

Then with a 17 year Time-Frame... making the Engineers World closer to home was a Necessity/Convenience which meant they then have to come up with a Reason why the Engineers World was never detected.

The Plot Idea i had as far as where David and Shaw would go, would have NOT had to worry about such things because it was Thousands of Light Years away!  What about Humans?  Well then we ask is Earth the only Place where Humans had been seeded by the Engineers?