Alien: Isolation (the novelization) and the Space Jockey

I think Certainly it helps to clear that up... and as daliens had said this as Canon covers up the Derelict Signal prior to Hadleys Hope.

It throws us a Stick to open up the Mystery for debate by Virtue of inferring a 16ft Pilot, and that it appears to be there a LONG TIME... but these are by No Means a indication to Disprove the Prequel route that Ridley Scott was taking, as the Conclusion could introduce a 16 Ft Engineer and maybe explain WHY it looked so Aged for not being there for that Long.

But it also at present gives hope that the Prequel Route of Alien Covenant cant lead to ALIEN as far as Derelict/Space Jockey.

so as SM had pointed out accepting the Novel does-not really Effect the Outcome of the Derelict Event.. this still remains a Mystery at Present.

And Perhaps thats how it should Remain ;)

This is why Isolation works. It fits in with the series without interfering with the movies. 

Regarding “the hole”, I think it’s too big and symmetrical (a square or rectangle) to have been made by a facehugger (climbing up and burning through the floor). Wouldn’t it have been much smaller, just so the facehugger could squeeze through? It’s big enough for people with spacesuits to climb through, perhaps even big enough for Engineers? Another possibility would be that there was a hatch which has either been opened or removed (this could suggest sabotage).

And another thing: If there's a connection to LV-223, wouldn't there be urns (filled with pathogen) instead of eggs in the cargo hold?

And another thing: If there's a connection to LV-223, wouldn't there be urns (filled with pathogen) instead of eggs in the cargo hold?

No. Just no. Urns turning into eggs - is more silly than egg bombing. Just imagine and laugh.

I think the idea for the hole was that it was made by a face hugger or burster from the Jockey. It was a clean and large hole though. If the bugger did it, I would expect to see some sort of trail. Sabotage of some type seems plausible.. But by what or whom?

Based on current posts, it seems reasonable that the prequels are pretty far removed from the Quadrilogy. 

That hole idea is important though. It looks too perfect- I doubt the movie folks thought much about it at the time.

@Leto, I don't believe chli was suggesting that urns would turn into eggs.

I think if we can be Honest Movies have Flaws and some IN-Continuities and ALIEN was not alone with this, things change during Production and then some things are NOT completely thought out...  a sometimes things are added as Plot Convenience but then they are NOT that well Planed, because its Considered they dont really matter, there could be just Small Details that should be just OVERSIGHT.

Now i dont want to change this to another Egg Hold debate so i am only just pointing out that LIKELY that Set-Production began with the Notion of a Separate Egg Silo, which was Merged as Part of the Ship due to Budget/Time Restraints...  which then you needed a PLOT CONVENIENCE to get from the PILOT Room to the CARGO Hold below and this is LIKELY were the HOLE was Created, as a Plot Convenience, where they maybe just Never gave what caused it much Thought at the time.

Some Good points about the Hole Size/Shape, you would assume a Chest Buster or Face Hugger would NOT make such a Hole.   Even the Chest Buster was to Scale with the Space Jockey so 250% Larger than a Human Chest Buster i am NOT sure it would make such a Hole.

The area where the Hole had happened is like a Layered Hole prior to the Acid Burn.

So a way that HOLE would make sense would be IF the area was Filled with Acid like substance that Filled the area to a Level before it Started to Dissolve through the Floor!

Considering this as a Good Explanation could lead us to Speculate that the HOLE was made on Purpose, but by WHO and WHEN?

It would Likely be after the Derelict had been there and the Space Jockey Chest Burster, as that makes more sense than the Hole being there Before the Space Jockey got to his Seat..

Which i why i STARTED this TOPIC were we could discus a Idea about a Event that happened after the Space Jockey Event, indicating the HOLE had happened at a Latter Point.

However.... Sabotage?  that cant be RULED-OUT for example, maybe the Space Jockey had arrived to his Pilot Chair and saw that HOLE and realized that would Compromise his Mission so then he went off to Quarantine the Ship on LV-426.   The Questions this would raise would be....

HOW does a Face Hugger infect a Masked Engineer/Being (they can but we see NO Evidence of the Mask being Damaged unlike Kanes).

WOULD the Engineer/Being be so Stupid to walking about the Room with NO MASK after encountering the HOLE?

"And another thing: If there's a connection to LV-223, wouldn't there be urns (filled with pathogen) instead of eggs in the cargo hold?"

This is a VERY valid point at the Time of Prometheus.

Certainly there was a Connection... Alien Engineers and Genesis did-not have Urns as Cargo they had various Holds that contained Variations of Xenomorph Eggs.  There was Urns elsewhere but they Contained a Method (Nano-Scarabs) that would Pass On traits of the Xenomorph.

Prometheus was Ambiguous, it could only lead us to Conclude that maybe some of the Experiments were LOADED onto the Derelict Class Ships... or that Eggs were taken from the Derelict Class Ships to Experiment with.

We have seen those Urns can Leak, also we see they can Disintegrate (Alien Covenant) under certain conditions.  So we CANT rule out the Urns Leaking and Dissolving and being Infected and the Result is those Eggs, as the Neomorph Spores likely Resulted from Leaked Black Goo.

However i would FIND such a Random Event that would lead to HOW those Eggs seemed to be Arranged in more Uniform Rows... as NOT Plausible.

Ridley Scott had Confirmed the Space Jockey Event back in 2012 he then further added more detail in 2013 as he SUGGESTED that something in the CARGO-HOLD had Evolved and got to the Pilot.

This could be indicated as Urns that become Eggs, even via a more Plausible Explanation i gave above this is a bit ODD. 

It could also be considered that he had been infected by something from the URNS elsewhere that had Evolved into a Organism and Infected the Space Jockey.... this would maybe have us Wonder if this Organism then Burnt the Hole down to the Cargo Hold and LAID the Eggs.

Again i DONT buy into that because of HOW the Eggs were in Uniform Rows to a degree and the Blue-Myst.

The ONLY way that makes sense is the Eggs had been Transported to the Cargo Hold at some point.

Another thing thats maybe a Oversight...

In the Alien Isolation Derelict Mission, there is a LOT of Equipment/Gear at the Scene, these were NOT brought on by Marlow and his Team!

Yet Dallas and his TEAM did-not bring No-Where near as much with them either!

Merely Oversight, Inconsistency? (Franchise has a Number of them).  And so Games Developers could make same Mistakes.

OR had someone else been there after the Nostromo and before the Anesidora?

Well, the hole could be a “plot convenience” but there might as well be a ramp down to the cargo hold just around the corner (which in fact it is in some of the novels). The hole makes sense in the light of when Alien was made.

When Alien was made, the Space Jockey was a “fossilized” (long dead) extraterrestrial creature. This being didn’t notice the hole or was too much in a hurry to do anything about it. He could then have sat in his seat when a face-hugger crawls up through the hole and attaches itself to his face. When the pilot wakes up, later on, he starts to get chest pain and crash lands on the nearest planet (or moon) which happens to be LV-426.

However, with Prometheus, the Space Jockey turns into a suit and a mask and the problem arises how could a facehugger attach itself to the Engineer’s face without any damage to the mask?

Another thing: the eggs in the egg chamber aren’t “placed” neatly in rows like you would do, as a gardener, if you grow vegetables e.g. The ramps are placed symmetrically but not the eggs.

If the Engineer got hugged before he got into the chair - no problem.

I have not read any Novels apart from ALIEN and ALIENS, so i cant comment on the Ramp.  I think certainly there had to be a way those Eggs got on the Ship.  The way this happened and lay-out really depends on what the Purpose was for.

It is indicate the Eggs are a Bio-Weapon that was intended to be USED, and we have covered HOW the Eggs would be deployed before, i cant see them being DROPPED down, certainly NOT from any Height.

We have to ASSUME there is a way to Access the Cargo Hold from inside the SHIP.  As this could be a Plausible way that the Space Jockey got infected by his OWN Cargo.  The other option would have to be that a Face Hugger had got loose and  found a way to the Space Jockey away from the Cargo Hold.

Regarding the MASK, then indeed if we are looking at the Space Jockey as NOT a Suit then it does get around HOW the Face Hugger could get to the Pilot.

But something to Consider is Prometheus were we saw the Engineer got into the Seat and the Seat Attached the Suit to the Engineer.  So maybe the Derelict Pilot Chair functions the SAME, i would assume so.

"Somebody must’ve knocked the door off”

I am going to assume the NOVEL is recounting THIS Mission from the Game.  I wonder HOW different the Novel describes the Event and Layout compared to the Game, as in the Game they Enter via the Same openings that the Nostromo Crew do, only they Follow the Tunnel around and it Gradually leads to the Pilot Room, it appears the Entrance Point to the Pilot Room from this TUNNEL has NO kind of Door.

The only visible other Door Ways are the one that leads to the Beacon and again this has a similar TUNNEL to the Entrance and again NO visible Door.

Thats not to discount what the Novel is describing, just saying the Derelict Beacon Mission shows NO signs of a DOOR..   Was Foster just making a Assumption, or are there indications that there should have been a Door?

In ALIEN we never got to Pan around the Room to see its Layout and Doors,  however with Aliens: Colonial Marines we also visit the Derelict were it indicates there are Multiple Passage Ways on the Ship, and some do lead down to the CARGO HOLD, it also shows 2-3 Large Doorways that connect to the Pilot Room. The Aesthetic of the Ship is a little less Organic than we see in ALIEN and the Alien Isolation Game but not as Mechanical as in Prometheus/Alien Covenant.

The Interior to the Alien Colonial Marines Derelict scene is MASSIVE.. much Larger than the Interior of the Juggernaught and yet the Juggernaught is Larger (Externally) than the Derelict., but the same can be said for the CARGO HOLD in the Movie ;)

I dont think we should consider Alien Colonial Marines as Canon as far as the Lay-out unless the Engineers/Space Jockey use the same Technology that Dr Who does with his TARDIS

But considering some parts of that game i would assume there would be Entrances to the Pilot Chamber that are NOT like in Alien Isolation (Space Jockey would not FIT).  And its also likely there is a Route to the CARGO HOLD which we would ASSUME would have a Door that can be Closed.

I forgot to add that with Prometheus it was indicated the Entrance to the Juggernaught was actually at what MOST would have assumed to be the REAR of the Ship, but it was revealed the SHIP flies different to what we would have assumed at the time prior to Prometheus.

I have indicated as such with the RED Arrow on the Derelict.  Something to Consider is Externally in Prometheus we saw NO clear Doorway at that part of the Ship (but it is where they Entered) we also saw NO clear Door/Mechanism from where David had opened up to Drop the Black Goo in Alien Covenant.

So its LIKELY that the Technology allows for Doors/Holes to SEAL UP and seem Concealed, and so we cant rule out the same for Interior Doors on the Derelict.

It makes sense as looking at the Entrance Point the Crews of the Nostromo and Anesidora used they are NOT Practical for use by a Space Jockey as shown in the image above.   And so as Prometheus Indicated there must be a Entrance the Space Jockey could use at the other END of the Ship, that maybe Conceals itself when Closed.

"he wonders if this is really a part of the ship or a cave beneath it"

It appears the author is Toying with the Ambiguity to STIR-UP some doubt/debate in that they (Marlow) could not tell if it was a Cave or NOT.... just as Kane thought it looked like some kind of Cave.

So this as well as the other comments do-not give any Clear or Concrete Clues to what the Space Jockey (apart from indicating its a Suit) is or the Cargo Hold

So these are Helpful in they allow for the Debate to carry on and DONT contradict what ever they will do IF/WHEN we get to Finally See the Derelict Event.  In doing so it leaves those WHO eventually Answer that Event to have the Freedom to Explore it in a Number of ways, compared to if the NOVEL have Concrete Proof that the CARGO HOLD was NOT part of the Ship and say Concrete Proof the Ship had been there for Thousands of Years.

As this would Contradict the Path that Ridley Scott had seemed to be taking, which if we get a Conclusion and it goes against what the Alien Isolation Novel shows, then it would essentially place that Novel as NOT-CANON.

The way it seems to have been covered, leaves it OPEN to explain the Derelict in a number of ways, IF we ever get to EXPLORE it on Screen..... or IF not then it allows it to be a Ambiguous Mystery.

I could see David pouring Xeno acid to create the hole....(How else could he enter the cargo hold... The doors/hatch have long since fossilized and no longer work. Can you store Xeno acid in glass? Handy to have that stuff. Probably faster than a laser cutter?)

Maybe he's in search of Engineers relic(s) (crystals? or something really nasty)

I would say that the novel points out that the Space Jockey is not just a suit. It’s a suit with a desiccated body inside it (I don’t think the facehugger attacked a suit :) ). You would see the body inside (what’s left of it) if you peer into the hole in the suit. The hole is in chest hight so you would see a petrified, torn open ribcage if you had a peek (which Dallas, Marlow and others did).

When it comes to doors, I think it would be reasonable that they function like in Prometheus? They can shut by themselves if a safety alarm goes on. And you can open and close them with a security code. You won’t see the doors until they are closed.

As for the cargo hold, it certainly is reasonable that there is an entrance somewhere so that you can load and unload the cargo. The cargo hold of the Derelict contains xeno-eggs with the purpose of exterminating unwanted life-forms. My guess is that the juggernaut would have to land on a planet first. Then they would open the door to the cargo hold, fetch some eggs and place them in a couple of places on the planet. The rest would take care of itself . . .

What if there is something special in the cargo hold?...something the Engineers had taken from Earth two thousand years ago? And David is seeking this item(he has a cargo manifest from the juggernauts orrey?)....Some ancient astronaut artifact(Skull of ? or something biblical ...I think RS would love something like that.) 

“it’s hard to tell where the suit ends and the wearer begins, but it’s not a synthetic. It’s definitely a life form”

I think Certainly this indicates that Marlow likely realized it was some kind of Suit, it seems they dont give too much away so as to NOT conflict any Future Prequels, by that as far as describing whats beneath the Rip Cage Hole.

I think as i pointed out before about the Chair in Prometheus Contained a Suit and so IF the Space Jockey was a Engineer (or related) then they  could likely be walking around in a Similar Suit like in Prometheus.

These Close Ups show the Under-Suit seems to Merge seamlessly with the Engineer so it would be hard to see where the Suit Begins, it could even be Permanently Fused with the Engineer and so WHEN the Engineer gets into the Chair and the Space Jockey Suit then Attaches to him then IF the Engineer Dies and you have a HOLE in the Outer suit, if you looked inside and saw a Engineer in the Bio-Mechanical Suit beneath you would NOT be able to work out what is a Suit and what is NOT.

The suit itself (Under-suit) is Very Organic looking.

IF we assume the Space Jockey was similar to a Engineer, then they could walk around in that Under-suit and get Face Hugged, and then they get to the Chair to SUIT UP.

When it comes to the Doors i also agree their Technology is different and so what appears as a OPEN Doorway with NO Doors could be sealed up with a Door as we are shown this with the Cargo Hold in Alien Covenant.

So the Cargo Hold opens up to Form a Hole in what before seemed a Seamless Hull so Certainly the same could apply to other Entrances and Doors.

As far as the Deployment of Eggs... again its really Flawed...

It would be a Hard and Labor Intensive Task to Carry the Eggs Manually, maybe they only Need to Drop off say 10-25 Eggs a Time, likely to a Few Continents to Ensure they would SPREAD across a World.

But this would take a lot of Work, Time and Risk!

Dropping them like Bombs makes No Sense!  When also looking at the Cargo Hold and HOW would this happen?

The revelation of the Space Jockey as the Engineers who do-not have a Problem with Self Sacrifice could give us another indication.....  MAYBE.. this would have been a Suicide Mission?

The Space Jockey would LAND on a Planet, then somehow some Door Ways open up and the Blue Myst is then Turned Off so that the Xenomorphs can Escape... but then the Franchise seems to indicate that Close Proximity is needed and so IF the Space Jockey had LANDED it could take some TIME before any Curious Life-forms come to Inspect the Ship and become Infected in enough Numbers to allow for a Infestation?

How many Crew does a Derelict have? Could they go out and ROUND-UP some Victims and then Shove them in the Cargo Hold and then Escape to the Safety of the Pilot Room?

Having a Separate Sacrificial Room where Hosts could be Rounded up and Contained and then some Device that would PICK a Egg from the Cargo Hold and Transport it to the Sacrificial Room would make sense...  (take the Hosts away from the Ship once Infected). However the SHIP is simply Not Large enough but then the same can be said with the Cargo Hold.

The Separate Cargo Hold has been debated before... we have NOT seen the Underside of the Derelict, and its obvious the Derelict and Juggernaut have Differences so we CANT assume they are the Same.

They could be similar but have different Functions, and so we could Speculate that their is a Separate Cargo Hold that is Attached under the Derelict and the Ship then would have to just DROP off the Cargo Hold which could then maybe Open up like the Xenomorph Egg does and allows the Eggs to be accessed easier by anything that gets Curious.

This would make Sense, and would maybe FIX the issue of the Cargo Hold Size and HOW it could not FIT in the Ship.

But i think it would remain as just a Oversight we have to Accept, maybe the Space Jockey Size likewise.

@MonsterZero

I think it depends on HOW is David going to be connected... i am not sure they would be giving us Biblical Relics and looking at your comments its seems you Speculate the Derelict had been there for a LONG TIME before David and that he has some Agenda to access the Ship.

I think thats a OPTION... if say the Ship was already there, the Engineer revealed to be infected with something more like the Neomorph or a Deacon.

David arrives, has to Access the Cargo Hold and indeed causes the HOLE... he then does something to Activate the Urns so they Dissolve/Explode like in Alien Covenant but David also has some of his Eggs in that Hold so that they become INFECTED with the Explosion and so the DNA of those Eggs is spread across the Cargo Hold and then we see those EGGS start to grow!

@BigDave

And if David(or whatever) didn't create the HOLE then the Nostromo's crew wouldn't have found the eggs....(probably headed back to the Nostromo The End...boring movie).

Daniels or T could have created the HOLE...Escaping from David ....or they are also looking for something?

 I just think that would be kind of neat and tie the prequels together.

The only reason this (w)hole mess started was finding the eggs. 

David = Peter Weyland and Peter like his Earth relics...So I think David would be interested the manifest.