The Crossing

It is certainly a puzzle, and one that I've asked before, as to why the Engineers weren't able (or bothered) to sort out the mess on LV-223. They're not stupid, after all.

There are many possible reasons. For example, it might not actually be a good idea to store an antidote anywhere near a WMD factory, since that substance would almost be as bad as the WMD itself and rub out a lot of hard work. Or it could be plain incompetence. Or it could be sabotage. Or it could be that something happened in history over the past 2,000 years that meant LV-223 became part of a lost empire. In respect of Planet 4, perhaps that wing of the Engineer Empire had nothing at all to do with chemical weapons and were completely exposed on David's arrival. Lots of possibilities - one reason why I love the way Ridley's developed the backdrop.

I doubt Ridley put much too much thought into how an infection could become safe again after 500 years. Outbreaks like Ebola tend to fizzle out over time, but the pathogen is a different kettle of fish! If the Engineer civilisation is millions of years old, they likely have the means to undo their damage if they have a mind to.

Regarding when David was patched together, I would assume that, as they drive past the wreckage site, David suggests that Shaw might need some things, food for instance, and Shaw will then explain that it’s dangerous to come near Miss Vickers’ lifeboat. David will want to know why and Shaw tells him about the combat between the Engineer and a monster with tentacles (trilobite). David will then have two arguments for being made whole again: It’s not safe to stay on the ground (in the juggernaut) because there is either a huge tentacled monster or a very angry Engineer at large. Furthermore, David can take her to her makers.

You can’t tell from the novel how long they stayed in the juggernaut after the crash, but it seems likely that they stayed there for some months at least since they made furniture and paper. We also know that Shaw felt alone and wanted to get home (“Take me Home, Country Roads”) but also that she was afraid of something (looking behind her).

Something must have changed between David and Shaw and as I see it the most likely scenario is that David decided to just go and grab her and bring her to the cathedral as a captive (that’s why her belongings are still in the juggernaut when the Covenant crew arrive there).

As for the Engineers, they did destroy the juggernauts so that the pathogen couldn’t spread but as I see it they most likely died shortly thereafter. In the novel, there are even dead Engineers outside the city so the radius of the airborne pathogen must have been quite extensive. I think the drawings that David made and the experiments and mutated bodies, as well as the statue of the skinned Engineer, were made from the dead and deformed bodies of Engineers outside the cathedral (in the dire necropolis).

Also, David says that the pathogen is extremely aggressive and will spread and take out all life forms (fauna). So it will spread in the air, land and waterways, that is birds, mammals, fish etc. It was made to eradicate all fauna on entire worlds. However, when everything is over, the pathogen is dormant which is why the covenant crew (including Walter) can’t detect anything. But when the spores are touched upon, it awakens . . .

Furthermore, in the novelization, David says that he became “consumed with studying the minimal surviving fauna” (insects e.g.). In the lab there is a dead Engineer lying on a table, stripped of skin, fat and muscle. David says that it was messy but that he had “thousands of examples from which to choose”, referring to all the corpses lying outside the cathedral.

Except for insects, the only living thing he finds is the xenomorph egg (in the lab) with a living facehugger inside it! He had to kill it though since it was too aggressive . . .

Well hox thats like the Million Dollar Question...  i have to come back to that one ;)

@Chli

You raise some Good Points as Usual ;)

I think with the Plot for AC that leads from The Crossing, we have to assume a certain number of things...   it was always a Question of Dr Shaw would need to Re-attach David at some point, and if we NEVER had Alien Covenant, then she would still had needed to Acquire some Tools to FIX HIM.... as i doubt Engineers would have a Ideal set Handy!

The Rest of the stuff from The Crossing would only be needed IF...

*There was NO kind of Nutrition/Drink for Dr Shaw on the Engineers Ship

*She would NOT be going into Cryo-sleep any time Soon or the Cryo-Pods would not Sustain her!

These are Effected by HOW-SOON she decides and is able to put David back together again...  By Virtue of Noomi Rapace being cast for The Crossing and likely having to keep her Hair Long (for other Work) then it was a Necessity that she would have had to Salvage more from the Prometheus/Life-Boat.

She simply would have HAD to go to the Life-Boat or Prometheus Wreckage to get THINGS for her Survival while she Contemplates putting David back together and also for the TOOLS she would NEED... if they are on the Life-Boat... then NO TOOLS... and she was maybe NOT going to Leave this Place... or so David would lead her to Believe..

It seems 4/5 Days Passed from when the Engineer was Face Hugged, to when the Deacon had Chest Bursted we dont know WHEN the Trilobite had Rolled off the Engineer....   So maybe when she got to the Life-Boat they both appeared LIFELESS! so she would then Rush Around getting whats Needed..

Maybe all David knew at that Point was the Engineers Experiments make Organisms that KILL and maybe he would NOT be aware that the Trilobite was a Stage in a Life-Cycle?

If he DID know, then he could inform Dr Shaw she has a Limited Window to Get the Stuff and Leave LV-223 before her Grandchild is BORN ;)

Regarding the NOVEL and Engineers, i have not read it, and its a case of maybe we accept it unless it Contradicts anything shown on Screen...

Sometimes the Writers dont really THINK much!

There is certain Life-Forms that Survived, not Limited to Insects from Davids work notes.... The Engineer Bodies outside in Alien Covenant did-not look like they would be MUCH use for Experiments...

It seems he had Experimented with Female Engineers including their Reproductive System... it makes more Sense that he had acquired some ALIVE Engineers.

Hatton and Hallett had discussed that some of their Work, had depicted various Experiments and Torture that David had conducted on the Engineers, its hard to Torture a Dead Being.. that would just be Mutilation.

So i think its a case of Interpretation and seeing what makes more Sense, as far as IF there were Survivors.

The Pathogen Likely had a LARGE Radius, certainly.... it also likely had a Set Time before the Effects would PASS!

I think that Gave him a Reason for Dr Shaw to be HELD UP in the Juggernaut.... he would also likely want to NOT get too close to any Engineers until he is sure that the Pathogen has done the JOB....

It could seem Dr Shaw and David were still on Good Terms for a While... she likely Accepted Davids reasons for the Bombardment (likely a Lie), so there would have to be a FEW Good Reasons for WHY their Relationship went SOUR!

*Discovering the Real Reason the Pathogen was Released (Prevented her from her Answers). May get her angry!

*Discovering David maybe lying about HOW-LONG the Outside would be SAFE... could also..

*Discovering what David had Done to the Engineers, especially if she discovers some were or are Alive.. would Certainly make her WANT to not be around him!

*Having him make Advanced Towards her, showing he has more than Platonic Interest in her... that may FREAK her out!  It depends on HOW he takes Rejection as to IF thats enough for her to WANT to be away from him.

Its possible that a Combination of the above happened... these would GIVE her a Reason to want to try and KEEP away....

So YES at some point he may have either Dragged her from this Place... (likely) or she had been Caught while Trying to Run away from After  Discovering Davids Workshop of Horrors!

If they could flashback to the fate of the Planet 4 Engineers, why not show the what happened to Shaw!? I'd put her above the stature of the Engineers(character wise)? ?

David(voice over)"..There were complications waking her from hypersleep.....She passed peacefully..."

But show him killing her(with a rolled up drawing..Ash was weaksauce!)

BigDave

But if we go by just what we see (or hear) in the movie, what proof is there that some Engineers survived the genocide and were caught by David?

We have seen what one Engineer could do to David, so would David stand a chance against several of them on their own home ground? They would probably have weapons and food in stock and the flora is intact.

The Engineer bodies we see outside the cathedral have been exposed to weather and wind for ten years. David would have used "fresh" bodies for his experiments.

MonsterZero

I suppose a flashback scene showing David killing Shaw could be interesting, on the other hand not showing gets your imagination going . . .

A biomechanical Engineer caught David by surprise before going berserk on him. The Planet 4 Engineers didn't appear weak but didn't appear war like either. They seemed like peaceful monks. Also, David was pretty formidable judging by the fight with Walter. 

@Chli

Certainly i think if you ONLY go by what you see on Screen, then you do only have a Limited amount of Clues to Follow.  But most people would only see just the Movie to Form a opinion on Certain things.. most people would not even Care about such Details ;)

It comes down to the OLD Chestnut.... what you Choose to use to Form a Interpretation and when things are NOT really Spoon Fed, then we can all Interpret things differently.

Sometimes its as Dr Shaw said... "its what i choose to Believe"

Thats No Knock against anyone, because i would also be Guilty of Speculation too ;)

So when it comes down to WHAT we are Shown, there are things that are THERE that are Faint, for example there could be some Drawings or other things in the Shot that are Too Distant to make out, but Photos from the SET or like that Video Celebrating the 2nd Anniversary of the DVD Release, they could SHOW us what was too Far or Blurred to make out in the Movie..

Do such things NOT count?  Thats not a Attack, i never attack anyone's opinions (i hope it dont seem like that, if so sorry) but what i mean is its like the EGG shot in Prometheus, a Egg that was HELD by those Xenomorph like ARMS... it was there, but in the Movie it was Partially Dissolved and a Split Second... so UNLESS you knew about it, you could Miss It....

So while i Speculate about the Engineers, then INDEED thats not to say this is what Happened as we Never see David mention about what he did to the Engineers or what state those Poor Souls where in when he began his Anatomy etc.

So if i try and Counter my Speculation, and try and see if i can make sense of a Alternative... then it REALLY does depend on a Few Things.

*What was the Effect of the Black Goo Bombardment, the Total Effects and After Effects. 

*When was it that David had Conducted his Experiments and Autopsy/Anatomy of those Engineers.

In the Movie we see the Engineers are Swarmed/Rained down on by the Pathogen, it Enters the Engineers Body and seems to Leave the Engineers Body (in Larger Amounts), the Question is ONCE this Process Stops what is the State of the Engineer Bodies?

If we came across say a Farm that had say 4-6 Occupants who had Died from a Pathogen, one that Does-Not mutate their Bodies... so they would just be like a Corpse that had Collapsed from another Ailments, Heart Failure, Stroke etc.

For a Period of Time (depends on Environment, Temperature) those Bodies would be simply to Perform a Accurate Autopsy/Anatomy Check on.

If the Engineers Bodies are similar after they DIED from the Black Goo, then i would say YES.. there is NO reason David could NOT have Performed his Studies on them!

If he got to them before they Decomposed!

The Bodies However dont look much like Decomposed, they look more like Mummified... was this a Effect of the Black Goo?   Does the Goo somehow make the Dead Remains Solidify in such a Manner?

sometimes Decomposition can look like Mummification, if a Body say dies in a COLD Environment or Trapped under ICE/SNOW.

It can also do this if it is NOT in a Warm Environment, Sunlight and is thus in a Contained Environment that the AIR and Bacteria and other Microbes cant get Access too!  Then a Long Dead Body can look more Mummified.... and not Partially Decomposed.

IF the Bombardment Killed all Microscopic Organisms within a Large Area, then maybe that would HELP the Bodies appear to be Mummified...  its another thing to Consider!

So its like saying if Thousands of People were KILLED by a Hybrid FLU or Malaria and they was left to ROT, then we have to ASK under what Circumstances would their Bodies Become like the Mummified Engineer Remains and NOT end up Decomposed or Skeletal Partially or Fully.

But Certainly as FAR as getting to Fresh Corpses, then you could do a Ideal Autopsy and Anatomical Study. But then its a CASE of how soon had he done Experiment after Experiment, Autopsy after Autopsy etc?

Does he have a way to Preserve the Bodies?  Like a Meat Freezer etc?  Who knows...

We see some of his Studies and Experiments are in a Remarkable State of Preservation... Do the Engineers posses any Chemical Agents or ways they can Preserve Corpses he had Plastinated some of his Works, but some do-not look Plastinated

Some of his Works include Detailed Experiments and Study on Engineer Organs and Anatomy which include what appears to be Hybrid Infants, can the Black Goo or Neomorph Spores have any Effect on DEAD Engineers?

So those are the things we have to Consider if we are going to Discard any Chance of Survivors...

REGARDING how he would Obtain Alive Engineers, as i have said before, if they was HELD UP away, with Limited Food/Drink, eventually they would become Too Weak/Emaciated to put up a Fight!

@hox

I will try and Answer your earlier post.... it really is Ambigious to what the Answers could be though..

*Was LV-223 always a Place that Produced the Pathogen that had the Effects we saw in Prometheus or Alien Covenant.

*Why the Mural and Fresco if the Pathogen was intended to just KILL like in Alien Covenant... it seemed more Logical from Prometheus that the Infection would either Spread and Break Down the Victims Molecular Structure or Evolve them into Hybrid Organisms that had Deacon like Traits!

*If the Engineers are the Fallen Angels, then in what Context does this APPLY and to WHICH of our Engineers? All of them?

Using such a WMD is NOT the Ideal way to Cleanse a World, it is a Good Way to Evolve a World to become Horrors like the Experiments they was Conducting and Effects we saw in Prometheus.

But they surely had NOT intended this all along? So a Decision was made to go about and Destroy us, was the Pathogen something they had for Many Thousands of Years... as in the SAME as we saw on those Juggernauts and LV-223?

Was its something more Recent or it was Adapted to something different more Recent... Recent as in 2'000-5'000 Years

A lot comes down to HOW the Engineers and Fallen Angels are Connected, and HOW the Prometheus Mythos is too... from the POV of Yahweh then Lucifer was Fallen and those who Followed him, from the POV of Zues then Prometheus was Fallen and those who Followed/Supported him.

Both had Allowed Mankind to Gain Knowledge that GOD/GODS did-not want Humanity to Have!

So had those LV-223 Engineers done this... was they Punished, the Punishment Failed, so they then had Encountered or as a Result of the Punishment they then Became Obsessed with the Creation of Organisms like in the Mural... 

They then Chose to UPGRADE the Engineers Creations (Mankind) with something those Fallen Engineers had Created?

It really is a Agenda and Questions that we can Speculate over and over, the Possibilities are Quite Numerous

SABOTAGE.... Maybe, maybe some had NOT agreed with what was to be Carried out and Attempted to STOP IT?

Or they are simply Incompetent..... which would be ODD if they have been Dealing with the Pathogen in the Form we have seen for a LONG LONG TIME.

Isn’t it possible that some died before the pathogen got to them? In the stampede? There are also bodies in graves. The “hybrid infants” could have mutated before dying. I also wonder in what way the Engineers were “held up”? The climate on Planet 4 might be tropical with wet and dry seasons. I don’t see why not these bodies can look like they do in 10 years’ time?

I have Read the TWO Drafts for Alien Covenant, they seem to imply when the Covenant Crew arrive that the Planet has more LIFE than we have in the Movie, it implies that a Variety of Life is infected with the Pathogen in that they have become Carries of the Neomorph Infection.

As far as Engineers some are Described as being Desiccated where you can see Skeletal Features and other Described as being Petrified, so what we can take from that is for SOME REASON the remains had DRIED out, is this a Effect of the Black Goo.... or just over TIME.... so there are Factors that are at play that would Usually cause Bodies to Decompose.... that are NOT present or happening on Planet 4.

So regarding the CLIMATE its as i said before the ONLY way all those Bodies would look the way they did IF its not a Immediate Effect of the Black Goo (Turning Cells to like Solid Matter) then the Environment must have become in a way that would allow for MASS Desiccation which would mean the whole AREA would have to have became DRY and ARID, and caused the Bodies to Dry out Fast, also a Lack of Organisms that would Consume Flesh would also have to NOT be Present.

If this had Happened, then those Bodies would NOT be of use to David we can Assume, not in that State, but as i said before, he could have GOT to the Bodies before they had Dried Out....  but then depending HOW quick they would Dry Out... or Decompose while In-Doors would leave David a Limited Time to Conduct his Experiments.... and Studies.

From Hatton and Hallets comments on their Work, they imply that David had Living Engineer Specimens.. it seems a lot of his Work towards the Xenomorph was based off Engineer Reproductive Cells...

Regarding the Stampede then YES some could DIE during that, but its a case of WOULD the Pathogen Effect a Dead Person.... especially soon after Death because Cells are Still Alive for some time... again this is something we can only Guess.

Regarding being Held Up.... we see the Engineers trying to RUN Towards the Cathedral, a Logical Reaction to the Bombardment for those in the Distance would be to Seek SHELTER...

There are a FEW shots in the Movie that appear to show the Engineers trying to get past a Barrier Gate that is SHUT, there are also a Number of Engineers right outside the Cathedral as the Bombardment Started.

So NOT all Engineers were in that Courtyard, i think MANY were, and as soon as they Noticed what was going on they would FLEE to Safety...

The Question is WOULD there be any Place Safe?

Could Tiny Particles of the Pathogen had entered any place they are Hiding?  Could some in the Distance had been Infected with a Small Number of Particles before they made it INDOORS?

And so what would be such Effects, the Same? would they Survive Longer, but be Dying? would being IN-DOORS had prevented those from becoming Desiccated?

Surely some Engineers got inside the Cathedral before the Doors Closed, we dont see any Bodies inside, but we have NOT seen every Inch of the Building and any Bodies could have been Removed by David..

Or Experimented on by him IF their Bodies are Less Infected or Remains are in better Condition to do Anatomical Studies and Experiments on.

From the Persepective of Performing Studies then the Bodies would ideally have to be in some kind of Good Condition for the duration of how long his Studies had taken.

From working and Experimenting with the Pathogen, it would be ideal to HAVE some Uninfected and ideally LIVE Subjects to Test on...

As we DONT have any Direct Scenes or Flashbacks then it leaves it open to debate...

test

I don't see the logic in having living Engineers to experiment upon. That is precisely what David lacks: live specimens. That is the point of luring the Covenant crew to Planet 4: He needs a “mother”, a host.

If there had been living Engineers on which to experiment upon, you would not only get a xenomorph but an ultramorph. In Prometheus, it was easy to get a Deacon. No experimentation was needed. All you needed was the pathogen and a living host who then had sexual intercourse, and then yet another host . . .

I think thats down to interpretation...

David had conducted Experiments prior to Dr Shaw, his notes he had said the Human Genome Yielded better Results.   There is a lot of Mystery regarding the Experiments,  David could have had ONLY a Limited Number of Engineers to Experiment on, be they ALIVE or Dead but FRESH to conduct Experiments on.

If he had Harvested Engineer Egg Cells, it could be that he found that it was with Dr Shaw he gained his Success, and so he awaited for more Good Souls to come along.. but HOW would he know who would arrive First?  Humans or Engineers?

Regarding the Ultramorph this was a Old Concept that a 15ft Engineer would Birth a Larger more Superior Xenomorph due to them being Larger and more Superior Hosts... hence the Ultramorph was coined..

David had Experimented with Neomorphs and the like before the Covenant had arrived, so the Engineers acted similar as Hosts to what Humans would had been.

The Ultramorph Concepts did Vary, some were like the Neomorph, some like the Deacon and some were like HR Gigers Necromom IV.... the Concept of the Ultramorph was from Earlier Drafts of Prometheus, where it was indicated the Engineers had Created Various kinds of Xenomorph, we have NOT seen any Ultramorphs though, but i guess we could consider the Deacon as such.

So regarding No Experimentation then indeed David would had been interested to had seen what became of Dr Shaw's Child...

The options for this would have been.

*Infected Holloways Sperm, Infects Dr Shaws Egg Cell to create a Hybrid.

*Dr Holloway merely acted as a means to Transfer the Pathogen to Dr Shaw and this infected her Egg Cell

*As above but the Pathogen did-not infect a Egg Cell, it just used her Womb to Incubate.

There was No Way to determine which of this lead to the Trilobite, it was likely the First... 

In which case to Replicate the Deacon, then David would have to Obtain a Infected Engineers Sperm, and then use it on a Engineer Female,  would that WORK with Dead Engineers?  Who knows.

Not if he managed to Harvest a Female Egg Cells, but for how long would they be Viable after Death/Infection of the Pathogen.... would they NOT already be Infected?

If you was David you would also wonder what a Direct Infection of the Black Goo on a Egg Cell would do.

David had also taken notes on the Neomorph, so its a case of DID some Engineers just become Infected and Birth Neomorphs?   Could David had infected a Dead Engineer with the Spores?  But then how soon after the Bombardment had he discovered the Spores and then taken them to Dead Engineers and would they had been in a Good Enough Condition to Infect?

It seems David had been Experimenting with the Neomorph and Infection/Spores and Black Goo in Various Ways and then also using Various Organisms to Obtain certain Traits and Create Hybrids..

Until he had his Masterpiece.

I feel that having Alive Subjects and Organisms makes more Sense, surely such Experiments may not work on Desiccated Organisms?  Who knows.

Again they could be Carried out on Fresh Kills, but looking at all the Work David had done, then he would have had to Collect Fresh Dead Engineers and Organisms and had a way to STORE them from becoming Decomposed or Desiccated

From a Experimentation POV then Alive Specimens are best, or Recently Dead....

Yes, from the movie we learn that David knew about the neomorphs. He knew that they were afraid of light (why since they have no eyes?) or was it the sound? Had he witnessed Engineers step on mutated fungi and got infected by the spores? Had he witnessed Engineers giving birth to neomorphs and seen what they can do? Did he experiment on neomorphs? Wouldn’t an army of neomorphs be (almost) as deadly as an army of xenomorphs?

Was the mutated fungi a result of pathogen spilling out from the juggernaut into the stream and not from airborne pathogen? One also wonders what would become of infected birds, mammals and fish? It’s also interesting that the Covenant crew can get through the gates to the city but the Engineers couldn’t get out. Are they bigger?

Certainly  i think there is a lot of Mystery, certain things will depend upon other things for Example... "Had he witnessed Engineers step on mutated fungi and got infected by the spores?"  AND "Was the mutated fungi a result of pathogen spilling out from the juggernaut into the stream and not from airborne pathogen?"

Combining those would indicate that Engineers had Survived the Initial Bombardment, where we would then have to ASK how soon did any Urns Pour their Contents into the Stream, after the Crash and then HOW long does the Neomorph Spores take to Grown.. Instantly, Hours, Days etc... 

All we can do is look at the Clues and try and see what Makes sense and what makes sense to others may seem to make not much to others.....

So on ONE HAND... we could have the Bombardment had Spread across the Plaza and City and Infected/Killed the Engineers replicating inside them and then for some reason Days after the Engineers Remains would become Desiccated, a Number of Engineers got away from the Main Bombardment and so become Infected to a Smaller Degree where it TOOK longer to Die and for their Remains to become Desiccated/Decomposed which GAVE enough Time for David to Conduct Experiments on these.

And this includes Infants and Pregnant Females as they would NOT be heading to the Plaza...

Or on another HAND... as above but maybe some Engineers escaped and tried to HIDE AWAY but with Limited Food/Drink they became Weak and Emaciated and so DAYS/WEEKS latter  they was RIPE for the Pickings.

The Neomorph Spores are from Spilled Black Goo after the Crash.

On the Outer Skirts of the City the Infection either Spreads to the Forest Stream and Juggernaut to Cause the Neomorph Spores... or they are the Result of Spilled Pathogen after the CRASH!

And its not a case of JUST those TWO... there could be Variants of Events between both...

I think a Interesting Thing to Consider would be WHAT series of Events would be more Disturbing and Interesting to see if we got a MOVIE, a Novel or Graphic Novel.

I think ONE thing is Certain, it seems Dr Shaw had Survived the Crash and so it would be Interesting to see HOW Long she had Survived before she Died and what Reason she eventually Died!

If you only go by the Movie, then you could Assume She died NOT LONG after the Crash, was she Infected and so David just FELT oh well may as well USE HER?  It seems more likely that you could ASSUME he tried to RAPE her and she Rejected so he KILLED her and decided to Butcher her Body.

I think there is more to those Events than just that!

A case of she AWAKES to Find the Ship Crashed, and then David goes up to her Tries it on, gets Rejected and he KILLS her would be well a Total Waste of Time... i am sure more Sinister Outcome after a Discovery of Lies would be more Fitting!

He LIES to her about the Accidental Bombardment, says Outside is NOT save so she is Confined for Weeks, then as he brings her Food/Drink she gets Suspicious... he says that Despite Paradise being Destroyed, THEY could Rebuild it.... she asks HOW.. he says he could Discover a way for her to Bare Children and ONCE the Contamination has passed, they can START A NEW EDEN..

They could Raise Many Children... she says WHY.. he says because its the ONE THING she could NOT have and he LOVES her... maybe he gets all Touchy Feel

Anyway a Day or so PASSES and she Sneaks Out and discovers she can BREATH outside, she then follows him to the City, and Stumbles on his Workshop and Engineer Females who are Chained Up, and Babies that he is experimenting with!

At this POINT she would have a Horrific Revelation that David is NOT who she felt he was... and she would WANT to TRY and Escape.... he could then Catch Her... say he DID IT ALL for her... KILLED the Engineers... Experimented with the Females and Babies so that he could DISCOVER a way so Dr Shaw could BARE CHILD..

He then Tries to KISS HER... she gets away and he attacks her from Behind and Kills her.. or she Attacks him and Escapes but he then Tracks her Down and KILLS her.

I think such things would make more Sense, a Tragedy for Dr Shaw, and more Horrific

So neomorphs are Engineered creatures that grow to a certain size and regardless what species their host( Elephant/dog/cow/goldfish, etc..), they would still be humanoid like creatures?

They seem far more 'perfect' then a lumbering xeno.

From Davids workshop subjects, I assumed he created the neomorphs?

Or did he just study them?

This is really confusing.

Why are neomorphs human like...I can't believe you mix plant life and black goo to produce a humanoid creature?

Id like to think Shaw was backburst and David just did what he could to save her.

The Neomorphs are a Infection/Organism that comes from Contact with the Spores..... 

The Spores are something that Evolved from Fungi that grew from the Mold, found at points near Water Supply that lead from the Cargo Bay to the Stream.

So the Crashed Juggernaut had Torn/Scouped up some of the Mountain, Rain causes a Stream to Run over/under the Juggernaut (as it sits on where Water Runs down Mountain to the Stream)

Eventually Mold, Moss and Fungi Grow inside the Cargo Hold, and a Leaked Urn/Ampoule would have Infected the Water Supply and Evolved the Fungi into Neomorph Spores, the Pathogen then also running down the Stream and Evolving other Areas of Fungi to more Spores.

so the Neomorphs are a Result of the Pathogen and NOT by David.

He had however Experimented with the Neomorphs, creating Hybrids with other Organic Matter/Life, he had Experimented and Evolved and Cross Hybrid Various Organisms to obtain the Desired Traits towards making his Xenomorph.

Likely the Black Goo was the TOOL to allow for Cross Hybridization and likely then he had use the Desired Results to then Infect Engineer Egg Cells and then Dr Shaw's to Create his Ovomorphs.

Regarding Dr Shaw's Fate...

That is something to Speculate, its Certain she Survived the Crash, its Certain she Trusted David but then something Happened that caused her to FEAR him.

Then things went Sour...

It looks like Dr Shaw had played a Role in the Creation of the Xenomorph Eggs... so its LIKELY her Reproductive Cells played a Role!

It had been indicated that David may have offered to EVOLVE her, and she REJECTED this...

some of his Drawings depict Dr Shaw with Various Mutations, Various Experiments and things done to her Body, and what seems like he Infected her with a Face Hugger.

Some of these MAY have happened, some could be what he had Intended, and some are just Basically Fantasies of his...

Its quite Ambiguous....   The Drafts to Alien Covenant seem to indicate Dr Shaw may have Provided a Important Part of the Puzzle to get the Eggs...  And then he TRIED on of them out on HER... to NO Success!

It simply NEVER Gestated as FAR as Orams... it would seem that David had NEVER got to see his Final Masterpiece due to lack of Hosts.... which he Finally got more Hosts once the Covenant had picked up the Signal that David had sent.

But he had seen a Number of Neomorphs and other things he had Created from them, in his Work to Perfect his Experiments which became the Eggs...

But its Ambiguous as some of his Work, indicates he had managed to Gestate a Xenomorph from a Female Engineer.

What's the point of hosts again? Nutrient sacks? It doesn't use the hosts DNA to create something new.....A neomorph will appear from a goat or a human.

Alien 3 is the only time this changes?

I would say that the Pathogen in Context to the Infected Neomorph Spores will USE a Host to take on Traits and use the Hosts DNA to Evolve/Gestate the Neomorph.

I would say that would explain WHY it had a somewhat Human Form..

Again though, we could look at the Motes from within the Spores simply Need to take on Nutrients to Grow... either way it seems a Host is Required...

Also i would assume a Neomorph Spore could infect a Goat, but would the Resulting Neomorph be Bi-Pedal?  I think maybe we could get the same Difference between a Goat Neomorph and Human similar to the Cow/Dog Alien compared to Human Xenomorph we saw in the Franchise.

The Neomorphs did seem to walk about more like the Runner in Alien 3 anyway, i would say just as there are NOT a massive Difference between Alien 3 Runner and Alien Drone, i think a Goat Neomorph would likely be similar to a Human Neomorph... maybe the Goat Version could have Horns?

So indeed the Neomorph/Xenomorph maybe does-not take on a Massive Amount of a Hosts Traits?  They are mainly just INCUBATORS for the Parasitic Organisms.

Well, I’m not sure that there were any Engineers surviving the genocide and if there weren’t, there couldn’t have been any neomorphs in the likeness of what the motes produce when the host is a human. I agree that “the monster” which is the result has taken on traits from its host. As a matter of fact, the neomorph in Spaihts original script had a likeness of Holloway.

The mote is like a miniature mosquito but it drills down under the skin of the host and lays mutated eggs. But what’s really at work is the pathogen whose sole purpose is to eradicate life, kill all fauna. “Puff spores” were indigenous but mutated by the pathogen into the spore sprouting fungi (the spore bacteria entering the host had mutated into some kind of eggs).

I don’t think David’s “Bestiary” contains neomorphs but hybrids and mutated forms of insects and small creatures living in water and on land (but in the novelization, there are stuffed neomorphs, xenomorphs and a living egg with a living facehugger - none of which David has created). There are mutations of larger beasts (and Engineers) but they were probably dead when David found them.

However, if one looks at David’s drawings it’s possible that some Engineers survived and David experimented on some of them (tortured them) but I don’t find that likely. There would already be neomorphs around (perhaps even xenomorphs or Deacons) when the Covenant crew arrive.

As David says himself:

"I have taken great pains to detail every step, every cell, every mutation, unfortunately none of the planet's life has been proven to be very fruitful. I had some interesting results, but was still far from perfection. With Shaw I realised there was something extraordinary in the substance reaction to the human genome. I was able to unlock new properties and tweak the organisms aggression. An instinct for survival. It took years. But I finally found my wolf. And now I have my flock of lambs too."

Nota bene: The Engineer and the human genome are almost identical.

Ahh..Okay that makes sense. Thanks BigDave and Chli.

Like to see a horned neomorph!

I can see that as a Valid Point.... we DONT know how Long do Neomorphs or Xenomorphs stay Alive for... it was indicated before they would live for  a Short Time but we dont have any real Evidence of HOW-LONG, it seems Certainly its not Days/Weeks as Evidence in ALIENS.

So we dont know if ANY of the Neomorphs/Xenomorphs that had been Gestated prior to the Covenant, could be DEAD, or maybe even Experimented on and Studied by David, it seems he has done a Fair Share of that, so its LIKELY that somehow these must have came from some kind of Humanoid Hosts.

Its a case of can a Neomorph/Xenomorph Infect a Carcass?

The Puff Balls are interesting they would Grow from Damp Conditions where Mold, Moss and Fungi would grow, but that Does-Not mean they could not have been a Kind of Fauna that as Infected by the Pathogen and NOT mutated so much, but just that the Pathogen would HIJACK the Fauna's Method of Procreation to be used to Spread the Pathogens Neomorphs.

Same with the Insects some look like they had NOT been infected much (as in Mutated), but they had been HIJACKED to Spread the Motes.....

Dr Shaw in Prometheus seemed to NOT have any signs of Infection apart from her Reproductive System being HIJACKED... so if she became SIMILAR to those Puff Balls and Insects, then it would be that she would for Instance, just Continue to Gestate Trilobites over and over as a Example.

So for Example.. it would be like a Male being Infected like Holloway and they look like they are not Infected.. No Mutations.... just their SEED is HIJACKED to then Impregnate Females with a Trilobite Organism.

Of course we saw Holloway start to go through some other Changes latter on, before he got VICKERS to KILL HIM.

so maybe the Pathogen has a different effect on some Organic Life, such as Insects and Fungi.

When trying to Figure Out what had been going on, then you can get some different Conclusions depending on WHAT you look at.... the Movie does-not give us a CLOSE UP and in Depth Look at Davids Workshop so some stuff could be MISSED...   But other stuff is there None the Less.

Using the Novel can give a Different Account, even the Drafts differ a bit from the Novel too.

We do see what appears to be a Neomorph, we also see what seems to be a Hybrid Neomorph as David is likely trying to Re-Engineer his own Version of the Neomorph that comes from the Motes/Spores.

We have to Speculate on HOW these came about IF there was NO Hosts of Humanoid Genetics to Gestate them, did he have time to Gestate these from FRESH DEAD from the Bombardment too?

So was there Survivors, had another Group of Humans arrived Prior (doubt it) but then MAYBE he had used Dr Shaw to Produce them and was Able to Extract the Organisms before they DID any Terminal Damage to Dr Shaw?

There is a lot f Ambiguity, especially depending on what Sources you use for Evidence/Clues...  we could wonder IF that Planet had Primates?   Concepts from a Very Earlier idea of a Prometheus 2 seem to indicate that the World David went to had APES....   So if Planet 4 had Apes then those could also Spawn Neomorphs that would maybe NOT be too Different to those from a Human or Engineer Host.

"With Shaw I realized there was something extraordinary in the substance reaction to the human genome. "

If we take this at Face Value then we have to Conclude...

He had Experimented with Engineer Genome (likely Living) but when he Experimented with Dr Shaw he saw some much more Desired Results... despite Humans and Engineers being CLOSE Genetically.

Or he had Limited Results with Engineers Genome due to NOT having any Ideal Hosts he had to make do with the Carcasses of Deceased Engineers.

But then would he NOT have Suggested he had more Success with Dr Shaw because he had a Living Specimen to Test with?

Well, he could, of course, say that the human genome gave better results in comparison to the indigenous life that was left (none of the planet's life has been proven to be very fruitful).

I agree that it's possible that he experimented on Engineers, but he also experimented on Shaw (apart from indigenous life forms). The neomorph-like creatures in his lab might have come from his experimentation with her (just as the final product - the xeno-eggs)?

Personally, I don't think a neo- or xenomorph have any use of a carcass (except maybe for eating) but it seems that David used dead body parts in his experiments. We know from "Advent" that he "salvaged" parts from Shaw's dead body and mixed it with the pathogen and other stuff.

I think the Problems Arise from HOW basic a Workshop he had.

These Concepts seem to show he had more Technology Available that would make Experiments more Easier...

These Experiments could indicate the Possibility of Extracting and Fertilizing (or just Infecting) Egg Cells and then Growing the Embryo's

Indeed he could do Similar on the Covenant Ship, by Simply Extracting and Infecting say Daniels Eggs, or Fertilizing them with say Tennessee's Sperm and then he could Grow them in a Similar way to HOW those Covenant Colonist Embryo's could have been.

But his Work Shop/Cathedral seems to NOT have any such more Modern Tools/Technology and so thats why some things just seem NOT plausible.

A bit more Technology like the Earlier Concept work, then it is not so Silly to Consider he could have used Dr Shaw's Eggs and Engineer Sperm to Grow Humanoid Embryos for his Experiments.

The Dr Shaw we got, seemed to Indicate he had Studied her Internal Organs, maybe he could have USED her Reproductive Organs... but HOW would he Store those? (alas a Oversight).  Or/And he had Infected her with a Chest Buster but he had Extracted it from her for Study.

I think in Context to the OT.... there is a Period of Time that Transpired even if we only Speculate about what happened after the ARRIVAL... 

It seems Certain Dr Shaw had Survived for some Period of Time, Days, Weeks or Months?  I doubt Years...

So its a case of WHAT as far as a Story be it for a Movie, a Novel or Graphic Novel would be something that would HIT more as a Disturbing Plot...  a Disturbing Time for Dr Shaw and i think the Basis for that would be a Revelation of Broken Trust.... in that She starts to Believe David is Good, but then she makes a Terrifying Discovery....

Something that at THAT POINT... she then Realizes she should NEVER had put David back together and the Implications are NOW very Dire for Mankind!