New Replies (Page 200)
Firstly i will apologize in Advance to Chli for this Next bit being a bit OFF TOPIC and also to Gavin in the hope you dont take this too Personal ;)
Ignorantguy had beat me to a Certain Point...
At the Point when HR Giger was brought on to work on ALIEN, the Pilot of the ALIEN ship, had been Conceived to be Humanoid/Bi-Pedal in Aesthetic. His Concepts had depicted Bald Humanoids who Self Sacrifice to Procreate the Xenomorph and the Space Jockey was a Space Suit. The Actual Prop ended up looking a little Different to his Concepts.
So when exploring the Space Jockey in a Prequel which they deemed as the More Important thing to expand upon, over a Beast that had been shown over and over. Then Jon Spaights had decided that there are reasons you have to do something like he did... You had to introduce a PLOT to HOW those Human Characters would END up arriving at the Location the Movie would take Place.
The other option would be by Pure Accident... or to have detected the same SIGNAL that the Nostromo was sent to Investigate... So the Chariots of the Gods Plot worked as a way that would give a Reason WHY some Humans would end up on LV-426 (at that time).
The same Plot would also open the Door for Possible Communication and USE of their Technology. By and with Humans (and Created Androids). The Alternative would be a ALIEN Race that had NO interaction with Mankind, who then Humans would have NO WAY to talk to or Vice Versa which would Limit any Potential Sequel.
Going for a 15ft Elephantine Organism/Race that has NO WAY to communicate with us, would just show us a Species that would just go POSTAL on us perhaps? (they could have came up with ways around this Telepathy for Instance).
They had a Dilemma of how do you represent the Space Jockey as the Skeleton of a Alien Race, especially if they decide the Snorkel is a Organic Trunk (which it did-not appear to be) so you Potentially could have had something that would look more Comical than the New Born, Actually the New Born would look like the Space Jockey if we attached a Separate Breathing Apparatus to the New Borns Nasal Area...
So they went for Humanoids... we have to Wonder how much Spaights really knows about the Franchise, it appears NOT too much! Some things he overlooked...
Also it seems he was NOT AWARE of the HR Giger Concepts, that depicted Humanoids, well it seemed he never indicated them as a Influence in Furious Gods.
Regarding Alien Engineers etc.... it conflicts ALIEN, in a few ways.... if we accept it as a Direct Prequel, then the Signal is not the same, the Beacon comes from the Pyramids... it is likely this is to SHOW what also happened to the Space Jockey on another Part of LV-426 some Thousands of Years Prior.
I will AGREE that Prometheus had Toned down too much of the ALIEN DNA and lacked enough ALIEN Action....
I also agree the Chariots of the Gods Plot and Engineers are steering a bit away from what was ALIEN about the First Movie, especially more so with Alien Covenant.
something more Lovecraftian would have fitted more, but then its HOW do the Humans come to this Place? It would again have to be via Accident, or detect the Space Jockey Warning Beacon.
The SCALE was a Problem.... but the Intentions were 15ft Engineers, then 12ft.... then at Production 10ft but ALAS what we ended up with was 7.5ft by Virtue of Ridley Scott preferring to NOT use much Special Effects and CGI.
Again Chli sorry for going OFF TOPIC ;)
And Gavin..... i do think something more ALIEN should be introduced as a Higher Layer of that Creation Cake! Something more ALIEN.
To the last two posts- Prometheus would have been a good stand alone movie unrelated to the Alien movie (which was originally touted as a direct Alien prequel). Ridley should have maybe just made Prometheus as its own franchise without the Alien aesthetic.
If a movie needs extras on a DVD later after the theatrical run to fill in blanks, then that seems like an admission that audiences felt the movie was lacking and that translated to the box office bottom line. It's not that audiences want everything spoon fed, but most probably don't want to do bacheloriate level research prior to watching a new movie. Don't blame the audience for the cold shoulder.
I think that with Prometheus we had a Evolving Concept, that Certainly had a Basis during the Progress of Production and Idea, that had then been Evolved a bit prior to Shooting, and then some Elements further changed Post Shooting but there is still a Base Structure that was Present up to and after 2012....
Post Shooting we get the DVD Commentary, the Furious Gods and some Comments in Interviews by Ridley Scott and Damien Lindelof some of these Interviews are Specific to where they would go NEXT, some are in regards to what we got.
The DVD Commentary, and the Furious Gods can help to make sense of each other but they also differ a bit too, the same is when you apply some Comments in Interviews.
When you then add Visually what we see in the Movie then things can be Interpreted a little bit different. This is something that Lindeloff was proud of as it Creates Subjects for Debate.
so regarding the Sacrificial Scene, maybe its a Oversight that this World would Scientifically have had to have some Form of Life prior.... again it could indicate that the Sacrifice was NOT the First Time such a Event had happened on this World. The Broad Purpose is the same Regardless which is the Engineers had Chosen to use such a Route to Spread their DNA which would be incorporated in the Life that would Evolve on said Worlds.
I would say the Petri Dish comment by Holloway is something that in part could be correct, but there had become more than that..... the WHOLE reason for our Creation is still left Ambiguous you can be drawn to Certain things depending what Source of Information you use. The Drafts and Parts of Furious Gods indicate there was a Important Reason for Creation....
I think with many aspects of the Movie it can be interpreted a bit different, but Commentary and Interviews do help to Paint a Certain Picture.
The Furious Gods stands out by Virtue of its Name, as part of the Plot about HOW we had done something that had Seriously Upset those Engineers to the point of wanting to Eradicate us.
WE can only Speculate if there was at some point a Benevolent or Loving way involved in our Creation or Evolution, its likely that we are NOT that important as we would think.... especially in context to the Engineers had likely done the same thing OVER and OVER on other Worlds, and maybe also Multiple Times on Earth.
So this bares a lot to what Holloway said when he Told David because we can.... as far as Create David, it was a Arrogant but True Statement but there was more to Creating David than because Weyland could...... but it is Davids Reply that is more Significant... regarding HOW he would feel if his Creators said the same about Mankind.
Which is that while we dont have a 100% reason for exactly our Creation, we are not Unique or Important, so the Engineers would look to us no more than how Holloway had looked at David.
I think when looking at Prometheus there are some Important things that are covered....
1) Creation, what is the Purpose of Creation, does there have to be ONE? (There could be Many).
2) The aspirations of Perfection/Evolution a agenda to Improve something.... does this always have Benefits?
3) Knowledge, and how certain Knowledge can be Good, but Knowledge in the Wrong hands could be bad, and so its a case of how much do you pass on or allow your Creations and at what Cost?
4) Becoming Sentient, Rebellion and how Free Will and Knowledge can lead to such things, when your Creation does not see their Purpose in Life as being all they should be and have Aspirations, or take on Ideas that are against what the Creators had intended.
5) Control/Containment.... in that Certain Rules, Knowledge can be used to Control a Creation but how sometimes these Mechanisms do-not get Followed to the Letter and then you have to Intervene..
6) Punishment/Destruction in that sometimes when things are not going to Plan and getting out of hand, then some Pretty Drastic Measures are required. Measures that are Necessary to Protect the Larger Agenda of the Creators.
These 6 Things are connected on Multiple Layers....
We then have the whole Chariots of the Gods, Pre-vistation Plot used to Connect the Creators/Creation Plot.
Then we have some other things that are so Loosely Touched upon that the Exact Reasons are NOT really addressed, these are regarding a Soul, and the Pursuit of Immortality..... which the Movie does-not give us any indication as to exactly what is entailed... its left Ambiguous.
Sacrifice is also one thing i Forgot to mention that is inferred in the Movie for a number of reasons, it is Important on a Number of Levels.... The Engineers especially Value Sacrifice and what it means to Offer a Sacrifice..... so SACRIFICE is a Important part of what is going on.
The LV-223 Experiments, Mural and Xenomorph Connections, again are Ambiguous we have a Engineered Weapon at Play thats used to Eradicate but there are so many things that make the Reasons for this Ambiguous.
By that there could have been other means to Eradicate us, and at some point they Concocted the Horrors on LV-223 but then its open to if these are used to Eradicate or they are just a Stage of Evolution those on LV-223 had intended for us...
So what this leaves is a Ambiguous Wonder at the Movie and where it could take things..... it certainly allowed for them to Change things as the Progressed towards working on a Sequel.... which took a Different Turn after 2014.
Gavin You seem to forget the Giger murals cut from 1979 movie which clearly depict bald humanoids with space suits sacrificing one of them to the Alien. The elephantine thing was a comic book addition which itself retconned Giger.
The fear of the unknown was cancelled out from the series at least in 1986 with Aliens, which made the xenomorph space Ants. Why is that worse than the alien mimic-ing speech or using telepathy? How could even be there a franchise about the fear, as with every installment you re-use cliches and tropes established? You know storytelling form contains meaning.
The rest of what you say is purely subjective and just as subjectively I say that things like the Necronomicon are long not scary, but trite cliches.
dk Without the Alien connection there would be no Prometheus,
Usually, when ideas are cut from a movie there is a justifiable reason.
Gavin Spot on with those points- except Prometheus would have made more sense and been a better movie if they HAD left the deleted scenes in imo.
It would have been an outstanding stand alone sci fi movie if it didn't have the Alien connection.
I'm gonna be blunt and honest here (uncharacteristic I know - joke)...
Prometheus was a pretty movie with an absolutely stellar performance from Michael Fassbender and a wide-ranging performance from Noomi Rapace, but...
Everything else is just a contrived and convoluted mess.
Firstly it uses recycled content that was cut from Alien. Usually, when ideas are cut from a movie there is a justifiable reason. Should the alien talk in the next movie? Will it be revealed that an early version of Davids Facehugger resembled a turkey? Is the Alien gonna start crab-walking everywhere?
Secondly, the bulk of the movie is based on John Spaihts needless and preposterous retconning of the Space Jockey into a tall guy in a suit. HOLD ON. A screenwriters way of revisiting one of science fictions most amazing scenes ever committed to film is to make it a tall, bald guy.
Thirdly, Prometheus was meant to be a direct prequel to Alien. It was to be set on LV-426, that ship was the derelict and that guy was the Space Jockey. Yes, it was on-the-nose, but it worked narratively. When they decided to change the narrative to an indirect prequel they should have completely rewritten it. Too much of the original concept remains which confused general audiences (see HISHE video for proof) and no amount of Lindelof mystery-boxing ambiguity can mask that.
Fourthly, the religious and mythological overtones and connotations, the Daniken ancient alien conspiracy, and the precursor/creator race additions to the Space Jockey, now called Engineers mythology do NOT belong in the Alien franchise. ALien is about the fear of the unknown, the loneliness and emptiness of space, the unforgiving and unrelenting nature of existence beyond our comprehension. Alien is not about space Jesus or a bunch of bald nitwits that seed life and destroy life as they see fit (which is what the opening scene was meant to represent).
Finally, and this points towards Alien: Covenant too. Alien is about an Alien "thing" that is alien in nature, behaves in an alien manner, which is driven by alien urges. The clue is in the damn title - ALIEN. Alien was meant to show how alone and insignificant we are, not to make us the center of the universe. If O'Bannon and Giger were still with us our "gods" would not be shaved-headed jocks in nappies, they would have become Lovecraftian terrors, and the mere possibility of having David "create" the Alien wouldn't have made it past the first draft.
Back to bashing even though I said we shalt not speak of AVPR again lol!
So a pregnant patient heart rate stops
Yet, she is found caccooned and yelling- obviously breathing and therefore a heart beat (the monitor reads a systole and not that any leads are disconnected).
AND the offspring don't even have Predator dread locks or claws from the mouth- smdh
hox Nice find. It is very intricate and comes complete with the green screen bowls.
If you have £5K to spare, the Engineer's ceremonial bowl can be yours.
Sadly, way out of my price bracket.
@chli
Fantastic to see you respond to our conversation. As this is your thread I will not introduce any adjustments I consciously made to make the Prometheus moments more integrated.
I will comment on the assumption that we are looking at the film from the perspective of 2012 not 2017 or 2019.
1)The Donation. He is offering both what he is, catalysed by the creation tool for humanoid development, it has nothing to do with plant life when Rildey talks about seeding it is a metaphor. The world in question could be anywhere and it might have been terraformed as the movie makes it clear they have that capacity.
2) Sir Peter, spot on, the sole purpose of the mission created by Damons work is to ask the question of their makers. Everything else is expendable and David is programmed to serve Sir Peter.
3) By the time we move into the third act both his children want him dead. Vickers is actually the candid daughter by this stage at least she tries to warn him, David is dissembling or to use Ridley's words he is poison in the narrative. Michael explained this in a IV that because he is programmed to mimic human emotions to make them feel more comfortable the question arises when do those become cognitive real reactions. The answer is in the third act. At the same time he finds Charlies goading vaguely irritating but he did not spike his drink as a personal response. Charlie just happened to be in the way after receiving the orders from Sir Peter to try harder.
4) The Space Jockey is an Engineer an 8 foot humanoid 9 foot with the helmet and the difference in size to the original movie is as Jon and Damon said to make him more relatable and connected, rather than a vaguely humorous giant elephantine creature. It is artistic licence for the needs of the story.
5) Humans you nailed it Charlie gives third party exposition explaining what actually happened. Earth is a petri dish.
6) If you have ever read Cavalorn's blog you will know he thinks thematically and this story is all about sacrifice. However the big question for movie 2 is this :-
a) The humanoid experience was enhanced by Sacrifice.
b) The dark angels pursued sacrifice to create their line of monsters leading to the summation "The Deacon." , immortalised in the sacrificial pose whose story telling was originally supported by a sacrificial bowl but the key and we know from the riff at the end is its created from .....you guessed it hosting.
c) The behaviour of the ALIEN life cycle triggered by Cane lead to non consensual sacrifice through hosting.
The big question whats going down on the Home world? How do the "Engineers" procreate "naturally."
Great to see someone else watching and listening carefully and not being distracted by all the noise or allowing their own strange prejudices in.
PS I am working my way through my narrative and will probably be finished in a couple of weeks.
Thank you for not offering your brand of "deep feedback."It is much appreciated the point of highlighting the Furious Gods was two fold:-
1) To encourage people to purchase and watch it to increase their understanding of the narrative and visual symbolism of the film.
2) To show how my original work work sits with the expanded understanding the material provides.
BigDave
Having listened to their comments, my interpretation is that the intention was to show us what happened on Earth millions of years ago (but that this could also have happened elsewhere). It also makes sense that in the beginning we see the sacrificial Engineer seeding Earth with his DNA, and later on Shaw finds a DNA match between Engineers and humans.
Furthermore, even if we see green areas here and there, they talk about starting life itself (although Scott is a bit inconsistent).
David is, of course. more complex. Is he following orders or has he become sentient and has a free will?
BioDegradable
Most of the things I put forth has been discussed and disputed here. That’s why I went back and listened to what the creators of the movie had to say, that is their intentions.
I will try to say something positive about AVPR. The eggs being forced down the woman's throat was pretty gruesome and well done.
I watched The Predator a couple nights ago and think it was better than AVPR by a large margin- but not really worth watching again.
AvP:R is a bad movie, but it has two redeeming factors IMO...
#1 - Wolf is the second best Predator ever after the one in the 1987 original, and
#2 - It is better than The Predator.
I try to find something redeeming in AVPR, but there just isn't much to like about it. A failure of poor story-telling. Nothing emotionally resonate in the film at all.
It was the first Alien film where a child was directly chestburst and did you feel for him. Nope. It resonated less so than even Burke or one of the unnamed bald, old, convicts running around in the lead works of Fury.
BD i've tried several times to sit through it too. I think after about 6 attempts (including the first cinema viewing) Ive made it through to end once. Its just boring, weak, and lackluster on every level
Haven't the Engineers been verified as human by a DNA test? Therefore they can't be immortal. Or am I missing something?
Now David has a lot of bio-material at his disposal. He has the mutagen. He already created perfection in one form. Why not create some diversity, enhance it a bit? After all he should be for all the different life forms - he himself is this representative of alternative life form. He is also a good amount smarter than all his fore-bearers.
But there is no controversy in these observations though nor any news are there? And if so is it just "A man watches Prometheus"?
The other post by BigDave spurred another throwaway fantasy. I am not sure it is all that new and original, but:
what if the two sects of engineers are oppositely dualistic. One sect (living on Planet 4) are these beings cultivating and seeding life, believing in all the stereotypical good things,
while the other sect - couldn't be more different: they believe in sacrifice but their idol is this monster-beast that is depicted on the mural (ultimately Xenomorph, whom David evolved) and their shtick is to sacrifice all the life seeded by the other sect on planetary scale in the name of science and progress. They enhanced themselves. They look different. They love their goo(which might have been appropriated and adapted for a different purpose). Sacrifice a planet with its inhabitants, whole civilizations even - no problem for them. So in the end you have the two: a religious tradition VS the science/engineering/progress. A bit like in the old times : church vs science.
Now, David who is, no doubt a pinnacle of scientific research, completely unexpected by the engineers, probably doesn't have high opinion of one of the sects. He took all the best from both of the sects though - the goo from one faction and the subjects to conduct his experiments from the other. The end result is another pinnacle - Xenomorph, his success.
Weyland was a pioneer, indeed a god of sorts, in a way similar to engineers - he created David from scratch, a form of life that engineers couldn't have foreseen. He miscalculated that his achievement would be appreciated so much by his makers that he will be given immortality. Why? Because he made David practically immortal, and if he, Weyland made such a thing, surely his creators have such powers - and he hoped to be granted this gift, because he was the first of human civilization who has reached this goal. Unlucky Weyland got to a wrong sect. He should have gone to Planet 4. Perhaps they would have appreciated his efforts a bit more.
This movie has aged remarkably well in the face of the fourth Predator movie. In comparison, it's really not that bad.
I think it goes deeper than that while also remains Ambiguous, there have been Various Comments and extras that seem to Change Conclusions a little. Also the idea has changed/evolved from Spaights Ideas (Alien Engineers) to the Shooting of Prometheus, to the Cutting Floor and Changes..
So i would like to Elaborate on a few things ;)
The Opening Scene
This could have been Anywhere, it was to show us HOW the Engineers chose to Seed Life, it was indicated they would then come back and Further Evolve Life over Time... But indeed it shows us that this Process had been Carried out on Earth too, the Sacrificial Scene already had Plant Life and likely Basic Life so this was the Catalyst that allowed for Complex Cell Evolution (but a similar Sacrifice could have taken on a Baron World Many Millions of years prior).
Sir Peter Weyland
It seems that he has made many Advances in Medicine but he has STILL not been able to discover the KEY to Immortality or Greatly Extended Life, he is Dying and so he sees the Findings of Dr Shaw as a Last Ditch Effort to meet our Makers in the HOPE they can Grant Him more Life..... he feels he Deserves as such!
Miss Vickers
Certainly has little Interest in this Venture, she thinks its Pointless, she would rather be at HOME and preparing for the Aftermath of the Inevitable "a king has his reign" and this Queen would rather be Home preparing to Sit on the Weyland Throne!
Maybe she picked NOT the best Bunch Employees so that she can hopefully get this over and done with and BACK HOME!
David
Is more Complex to go into detail, he seems to be aware he is more Superior, he also seems to aspire to be more Human and treated as such... we see a Pinocchio kind of outlook to him... he has a Childlike Wonder at certain things, he is kind of a Boy at Heart, a Boy who is Molded by his Environment and Treatment he has a Curiosity about him and what makes Weyland think he is a God.... he is not Fond of Humans, but then with Dr Shaw he seems to be Impressed by her Resolve, he was following Orders, but desired to be Free and Once he is... well thats where its AMBIGIOUS what he would want to do NEXT.
The Space Jockey
Certainly the aim was he was a Engineer, Scale got Changed, but there was enough to show the Events of LV-223 and LV-426 are Connected. There is still that aspect the Space Jockey had performed a Benevolent Act.... but Benevolent for WHO.. likely his own KIND.
Ridley Scott indicating the Ship was Quarantined on LV-426 as the Space Jockey knew he was infected, and this Event happened either a Few Hundred Years after or Prior to the Main Outbreak 2000 years ago.
Humans
Further Indications are they had Created such Life in other Places, and at some point we were Visited and Taught things by the Engineers, until we became Sentient and Rebellious and seen as a Threat. And so Potential was seen in us but then also Potential Threat.
The Monster
The Mural and Frescos seem to indicate the Engineers realize that Sacrifice was needed for these Monsters, and seems they had attempted to Engineer different versions in the Pursuit of some kind of Perfection they had Admired...
The route i would have gone is Option 7
I actually posted this idea a Few Years ago.... which is a Parrellel Plot to Alien Resurrection...
The Failed Ripley 7 Queen and Sample of Ripley 8 Blood are sent to another Facility by USM that i was thinking was on a Moon in our Solar System or maybe a Space Station.
Where they would see the Queen Survive but it is a Hybrid, it is like a Cross Between a Queen and the New Born... as it has more Human DNA.... this Queen Produces Live Births like the New Born, only it Produces this Quickly, maybe at a Rate of every 8 hours or 12.... or maybe Quicker..
These Hybrids i envisioned to look more like the Neomorphs (before Alien Covenant was even a idea) basically i intended to merge some of the Concepts for Alien 3, with some of those from Prometheus to give us a Hybrid....
These would Procreate Similar to the Pred-Alien, they basically could Implant Embryo's, these Produce another ALIEN Form (Quite Quickly), that i was thinking would either be more Human or more Alien than the Organism that Implanted the Embryo's (thinking more ALIEN)
The USM Facility would also use Ripley 8 DNA to Create Humanoid Super Soldiers (we dont need Miss Weavers, or even Females) i thought these beings would appear Sex-Less and Bald, slight Elongated Heads and would look similar to the Engineers from Prometheus.... only slightly though...
So we see a Hybrid Queen, a Hybrid Off-Spring that can Procreate by having other Hybrids so we have 3 KINDS of ALIENS... i was also going to show that the Queen Birthed Hybrids could MORPH a Female Human into a Cocoon, and at the END we see a 4-5ft Queen Hybrid Birth from this....
We also have Engineered Super-Humans... so it will have Human Military but also have these Super Beings too... some of these Survive...
so we could go with a Sequel... that would cover ONCE again a Hybrid Queen (could be a bit different) and or the Hubris of Creating Super Humans.... like Ripley 8 was... which ever or both and what the IMPACT for Mankind would be?
I was working on the Title to the First of these as being either ALIEN: Vendetta or ALIEN: Vindication or similar, something that begins with V that would have some bearing to the PLOT or HUBRIS.
So i was looking at some of Carlos Huantes Prometheus Concept works and Jordu Schell's Alien Resurrection ones for Inspiration... and looking at Amalgamation of these ideas.
@MonsterZero
1b) could be a Option by Virtue of how USM could Clone Ripley to obtain a Xenomorph, so as long as some Xenomorph DNA can be obtained from the Wreckage of the Auriga then WHY cant they not obtain it again.... or also could something had Survived?
5) Is something more open... we dont even need to Contradict the Prequels or go to LV-223... IF the Engineers had used the Pathogen on a World before things went to POT! or After... then indeed we could introduce something.... If Planet 4 had NO Engineers, NO City, it was a Place that David Visited and Accidentally deployed the Cargo, or Crashed and some Urns Leaked into the Mountain Stream, then those Neomorph Spores would have STILL HAPPENED.... how long would those Spores remain? Could they Evolve?
So something similar could become of a World the Engineers had attempted to WIPE/CLEAN before.. how long does it take to CLEAR? if its say 500 Years, and you Wonder to this World say 300 years then there is gonna be some Nasty Stuff knocking around...
We could even wonder if some Organisms had Evolved and NOT died and so YES thats a Option... Another is if Eggs had been deployed by Engineers in the Past, what becomes of a World that has had those Deployed?
@Chli
Indeed Option 2 had been covered with Alien Isolation, the Derelict Damage as seen in ALIENS does-not look Natural to me, but i think this is a Fitting Story to explore with Amanda Ripley in context to a Continuation via the Game/Novel Medium..... surely she would want to Destroy the Derelict so the Organisms can-not be obtained?
Option 3 is something Interesting, its a Area i think Blomkamps Alien 5 could WORK... provided they replace the Protagonist (Ripley is DEAD) then i think there is Potential.... Are the Eggs ok? Do they Produce Mutations?
Surely they would Experiment on Mutants to try and Extact a more Pure Strain of the DNA to then Re-Make the Xenomorph?
WHY not if this could be done from Ripleys DNA! so working with Radioactive, Damaged Eggs would be Easier surely?
So YES that works too ;)
I watched it for the 4th Time Last Night, well 3rd Proper Time and i just Considered it as a Stand Alone..... by that i imagined if i had never seen ANY of the ALIEN or PREDATOR Movies.
Then it was not so BAD.... it was like so many those Sy-Fy Channel Action/Horror Flicks with some COOL ideas for MONSTER/ALIENS
The Alien Procreation was interesting, but the Adults just mindless Killing Machines, that Died quite Easy... so like Camerons Bug Hunt...
The Pred-Alien seemed to be better as it was more Tougher, but the Interesting thing was the PREDATOR and its Technology and Weapons...
The Rest of the Movie was MEH!
So then you saw the Potential in HOW they could explore those Aliens and Predator in Future.....
NOW if you considered AVP prior, then you would think that Actually this sequel is a LET-DOWN the Predator was Good, the Ending a Bit Lame, the Pred-Alien had potential but the Xenomorphs just not as Good as the First AVP!
IF you Consider the WHOLE of the Franchises, then you would see that AVPR was just a Disappointing way to use the Alien and Predator....
The Final 3rd of the Movie was not Good, and the Human Characters and scenes were MEH! some worked, some Scenes just never seemed to belong to a ALIEN or PREDATOR Franchise...
I will say the EFFECTS are not so bad.... not as Good as some others in the Franchise.... the Biggest Problem was close ups of the FULL Xenomorph, where it just has the MAN IN A SUIT look...
Why in ALIEN a lot was not shown of it, and also in Alien Covenant we had CGI!
We have this Problem with some Close Ups from ALIENS and also in ALIEN 3 where the Man in the Suit Alien looks different to the Puppet/CGI Version.
AVPR is a movie i would only Re-Watch now for some of the Action/Death Scenes... as the rest is well not worth seeing again..
I think there are some Elements of the Starbeast Story that has yet to be fully used in any of the Franchise Movies, Prometheus borrowed some Elements of it...........
The Franchise had seemed to indicate and Ridley Scott, that our Xenomorph was just a Engineered Bio-Weapon, nothing more and nothing less.....
So we have some fans who felt the Xenomorph in ALIEN was more than the Animalistic Beast that the Rest of the Franchise seemed to indicate.....
I think its past the Point to show the Xenomorph from ALIEN as being Greatly Different to the rest of the Franchise and that INTRODUCING something else, to have some of the Ideas about a more Intelligent, Self-Aware Alien could be explored by using the UNUSED ideas from STARBEAST.
So we could Speculate the Engineers had encountered the Remnants of a Alien Species Civilization or Birthing Place, and they then took the Spore Cycle of this Alien Species as the Foundation to their Experiments that became the Black Goo.
I think if we ever go that route, then WHY NOT have something that is Different and so is not a COPY of the Xenomorph, not in the sense of being too close to it.... and i think O'Bannon's Starbeast Concept is something to explore.
I think the time between Alien and Aliens has been covered in novels and games. A continuation of Alien: Covenant does not look good, at least not if the intention is to lead up to the Space Jockey and the Derelict (and its cargo). Perhaps it’s best to leave it where it is (still a bit ambiguous concerning the origin of the xenomorph)?
I opt for nr 3. It doesn’t really matter how long after the explosion of the atmosphere processor since it seems that the eggs can lie dormant forever . . .
Well, Predalien is pretty interesting.
I can't really dig into psychology or anything too much, but yes. I tHInk that feeling of being small, backed in a corner, or versus an impossible enemey or obstacle to overcome, is something that we, as humans, keep coming back to.
I think there is a desire to face ouR inner fears, failures, or just push forward and do something. It is a lot easier to udnerstand things or do something (I tihnk. A times.) if there is a clear perosn or thing to get through. It is especially easy to feel like you've done that when you are simluating it. In a video game is GREAT way because it is you controlling things and doing it. Horror movies, books, etc., are all good ways to simulate the human experience. T ojust have an experience, feel like you have been through something and changed. This is one of the magical things about films and books. It can be a negative experience too
I haven't seen Star Beast. At this point, why should I?
More Enhanced Images of Dan O'Bannon's Starbeast idea. We can see from the Full Image which i Enhanced a bit on the Left, that the Creature was similar to Ron Cobb’s Effort at the Bottom as far as its Anatomy to a degree.
I think the Bi-Pedal like Xenomorph we got was better as far as Design, but maybe a Amalgamation could be used for the STARBEAST.
There was ONE Concept for Alien Covenant well Prometheus 2 or was it Alien 5? That had Praying Mantis like Appendages that was Bipedal but i cant seem to Locate it.
I would like to see some of O'Bannon's Concept introduced into the Franchise if they Explore something NEW.
BD- you are way too kind to spend that much time on this turd.
AVPR was so bad, that when I put it out with the garbage, the automated truck made sure it was the only thing to stay in the garbage can.
@BigDave,
All of the above please! lol!
I'd like 1b or 5.
Call it Alien:Evolution
Human babies are being born(Earth or colonies) with stubby tails and elongated craniums.
(The military no longer has to search for the xeno...We are giving birth to them!)
All a long play plan of the Engineers.
#2 would probably be my choice.
@DK
Option 2: Indeed this is like Alien Isolation so it would be a case of HOW does this Tie In or Effect that Game or do we go for those as being NONE-CANON?
When we look at the Derelict in ALIEN and in ALIENS we see the Ship has suffered Damage, at the time of those Movies it was suspected the Ship had been on LV-426 for a LONG LONG Time and so Wear/Tear over Time would not account for the Damage, also what are the Chances a ONCE in a LONG LONG Time STORM had caused it? Could it had been Volcanic Activity or a Earthquake?
To me it looks like the Damage was caused by some Conflict, Weapons, Explosives and the Like... so thats something such a OPTION 2 could explore.
@Leto
Indeed OPTION 9: Could be Interesting because we have NOT been shown the Origin of the Black Goo or WHY it seems to have Different Effect in the Sacrificial Scene vs other times we have seen it.. So was the Goo obtained from another Alien Species? Was the Goo a Creation Tool that was USED on a Encountered Species that lead to the Black Goo and LV-223 Experiments.
So YES this could be a interesting aspect to Explore as it would be UNLIKELY the Prequel Route would Answer this so it would not Contradict the Alien Covenant and Sequels if another Movie set say after 2200 would explore the Origins of the Black Goo and/or LV-223. This could give us a Chance to Re Visit the Starbeast Plot.
AVPR was so dark and poorly lit, that I had to wear this thing just so I could see what was happening.
And even that didn't really help, movie itself was cr@p.
I think we REALLY need to look at the SET-UP, and remember that the Movie AVPR is a Sequel.
And so its a case of WHERE do they go NEXT?
So with the ENDING that was Scar Predator having a Chest Buster that leaves us with the Pred-Alien, then THIS was the likely ROUTE to Continue....... Then its also likely your going to need Human Characters, and so it was Logical that the SHIP would be heading to Earth.
Your left then with the case of WHERE!
So do you have the Ship Crash in/near a City?, a Rural Small Town or a Isolated Village? Then we come to the NECESSITY for it to be in a English Speaking Country, as this is more simple as SADLY yes most Movies do prefer to be based on English for Wider Access to Puplic. So then your left with going to say USA, Canada, Hawaii, the UK, or say Australia/New Zealand (there are other options).
So they decided the USA and to a Rural Town....
The PROBLEMS ARISE..... from having the Movie being a Continuation of a Time-Line of the 21st Century, but i guess its a case of would having the Setting be another Isolated Place like the Antarctic again work?
I am sure many had Wondered what happens IF the Xenomorph gets to Earth and a Populated Place, and WELL... this is what AVPR attempts to Answer.....
So your already LIMITED to what you can do, but then the BIGGEST PROBLEM... is Purely the Execution...
Execution from how to Write a Story about such a Plot was a bit Flawed, the Execution of said Plot as far as Casting/Writing and Acting was Below Par and Special Effects was not as Great!
We get that with Movies though.... Alien Resurrections Execution was NOT as good as the Previous Movies, The THING prequel Plot Wise it could have worked, it was how they Fleshed Out and explored such a Plot but more so Execution that was just Sub Par!
So it was the EXECUTION that was POOR...
We ENDED up with a Movie thats like a lot of Survival Horror Flicks.... such as you see on Sy-Fy Channel....
Where they are all basically the same apart from you replace the ANTAGONIST/MONSTER and the Plot of HOW they are Discovered, Introduced or Summoned and what they Look Like and How they Respond/Kill.....
So replace Xenomorph with Zombie, with Toxic Mutant, another Alien Species, Summoned Demon, Leprechaun etc.....
And AVPR was just like those but throw in Xenomorphs!
What do you think about this Interpretation (by Harnois75) of the ORIGINAL DEACON from the Mural?
This 12ft Monstrosity would make a Formidable Beast and likely be too much of a Match for the Xenomorph but NOT the Queen.
I think The Predator is worth watching once. It's unapologetic over the top sci fi entertainment meant for checking your brain at the door. Some of the humor is juvenile and there is a weird lull in the middle, but it picks back up.
AVP is good pure sci fi geeky fun while AVPR is possibly the worst movie made for its genre ever.
'The Predator' is really really bad. 'AVPR' is also really really bad. There's not much to choose between them in terms of badness, so don't plan on having a good night's viewing, BigDave.
I actually quite like AVP, on the other hand. It's a good suspense/action movie. I still wish they'd never meshed the Alien and Predator universe, but AVP is streets ahead of these other two turkeys.
BigDave I don't think anything is as bad or worse than AVPR.
