New Replies (Page 204)
Listen,im no Xenomorph expert,im an alien fan.
Fire may only repel a Xeno but that would be enough for me.
Always thought killing was 'easy'...(with the right weapon).....it's the acid blood that freaks me out. You don't dare blow it up on your spacecraft.
(When Daniels shot the xeno in the crane ...I was far more concerned that she'd get sprayed with acid.)
I'd Probably end up tying to freeze it?
I think this is the Problem when talking about Canon as far as Game vs Movie vs Comic vs Novels...
As the Xenomorph can be Portrayed as Weaker in some of those Mediums than others....
Most Video Games will NEVER have a Sense of Realism to them, as well it would make Playing them Too Difficult.
But going by the Franchise in General as far as Movies it is something that is HARD to Gage..... in ALIEN you have no real way to see how TOUGH the Xenomorph is as the Nostromo Crew could not use any Weapons for Risk of a Hull Breach....
In Aliens and Alien Resurrection we are shown that the Xenomorphs can be Dispatched with the Right Weapon. And so they are FAR from as Resilient as Alien 3 and Alien Covenant seems to Indicate.
Fun fact:the hardest level from Alien Colonial Marines was the first level.
Leto and everybody,Xenomorphs are easy to beat,when i played Alien Colonial Marines (I managed to beat this game lmao) i used and explosive and killed a xenomorph in one hit,i just kept shooting one Xenomorph and killed it,in alien vs predator,i could only use guns as a marine,which is the same thing with the previous game,for the predator its like:
ONE SHOT ONE KILL!
I didn't want to create a conflict about how to kill a Xenomorph.
Indeed that is Interesting...
We have to Wonder in WHAT way was this to Connect to the Engineers, we know their Ancient Culture and Creation was Connected to Sacrifice....
So maybe if we Consider that Comment, with the Giant Statues in a Buddha Offering Pose then indeed i think we can Assume that Sacrifice/Offering of their Body/Soul for the Greater Cause is something that is Fundamental in the Engineers Culture.
It also could be the Grmec Monument to the Revolution on the Doorway to the Engineers Cathedral could indicate the Sacrifices made by the Engineers Ancestors...
Thanks for the Link HOX....
It lead me to THIS SITE where Alien Explorations discus that Monument. And Finally it lead me to Discover what the Imagery on the Door was, in Concept Stage which could BACK UP the OT regarding a Tomb of Sorts.... but then there was TWO designs for the Cathedral Doors as far as ART on them, both where NOT the Same Reference Material... so maybe Neither can be looked into detail... and besides the Actual Cathedral in the Movie lacked any kind of Mural on the Entrance.
I think this Video Highlights the Various Misconceptions about the Franchise, all arising from the Evolution of how we Interpret the Xenomorph from Movie to Movie.
We dont know if FIRE would have Killed one at the Time of Aliens Bugs..... i mean maybe a Paint Ball Gun could have done the Trick ;)
But as LETO had pointed out... we had seen more signs of the Xenomorph being Resistant to Fire/Heat, we could look at the Alien 3 Runner who carried on after having EXTREMELY HOT Molten Metal poured over it.... and also the Covenant Xenomorph and Plasma is another Fine Point.
However... FIRE could still be Considered a Weapon, depending on the Xenomorphs Senses... as it is a Source of Light.... but it depends on HOW does the Xenomorph Sense its Surroundings.... they LACK EYES and so you could assume that LIGHT would have NO Effect and so a Flame Thrower should be something that a Xenomorph should have no FEAR of.
It basically could be as Useless as attacking it with a PILLOW!
I think something to Remember is in Context to the Franchise Plot, then such things as Biblical Accounts are to be Considered Fables that arose from Tales regarding the Engineers Visitations and that in Context to Prometheus/Alien Covenant that there was NO Magical Being who simply said... "let there be light"
So i think it could be Interesting to see HOW loosely things could fit, as in HOW did such Fables/Religions get their Information/Inspiration in Context to our Engineers, but i dont think getting caught up on the Details of the Religions Literally is Necessary.
But ALAS... going the Chariots of the Gods route for a Plot would make such matters Arise... where Many Questions could come about such as WHY are there Star Maps after the Engineers Outbreak 2000 years or so ago..... DID they come back? And if so WHEN and WHY did they STOP AGAIN?
Again these things will arise from such a PLOT... but they deemed that such a PLOT was really ideal in Order to have a Movie where Humans would arrive at the Location of the Space Jockey as far as what they had been doing in Relation to the Xenomorph. Without such a Plot, they would likely have had to show us a Human Mission that Simply Detected the Space Jockey SOS and went to Investigate and Discovered Space Jockeys and Horrors where there would be NO Communication as such... and so we would get similar to a AVP Movie..... well LESS than that....
Back to the OT!
Considering the Alien 01 The Master Narrative where these Ancient Beings had Evolved themselves over Millions of Years, and were on the VERGE of Transcending from Physical Form so they began to Create/Evolve Humanity in the Hope we can Follow in their Historic Footsteps.... Then to CHANGE of Plan and ERADICATE US...
This may seem Baffling.... but to IGNORE the whole Space Jesus Plot..... only looking at the Alien 01 The Master Narrative then IF these beings Evolved us, and Educated us, but then IMAGINE.. their Attempts at Attaining a GODHEAD status had Failed.... it NEVER worked out... and/or some simply Abandoned it...
They are then LEFT in a Mortal State, Physical Form and NOW they have to Share such a Existence with their Creation then maybe they could be Concerned that their Creation had been Given too much Information/Knowledge and Potentially its a case of can they Eventually Share the Galaxy with such beings.
They could have Concerns about that... much like how Sharing a World with Walter's is not as much a Concern as Sharing a World with David's (Sentient Synthetics) maybe they then Developed Rules/Laws to Control their Creations that they NOW realize they may have to SHARE the Galaxy with, instead of allowing them to had Inherited it (should their Transcendence to Divinity had been a Success).
So if we get to that point, and their Creations show signs they have NO Respect for the Engineers Ways, then INDEED these Wanna Be Gods would have to Consider that Eradication is Necessary...
No one alien from films never was killed by fire. Even more - Alien from Covenant invulnerable to Cargo Lift's plasma flame. And plasma is much-much hotter than fire.
Xenomorphs are easy to beat,just use explosives or keep shooting it.
Maybe, but fire is still useless.
Interesting to note that Ridley Scott specifically directed the concept artists to use the Grmec Monument as a basis for the temple design. Which, by some analysis, symbolises a newly breaking flower bud, representing birth brought about by sacrifice of those who fought and died there at its hospital.
https://www.spomenikdatabase.org/grmec
I gave up half way through. It's too annoying.
Xenomorphs are easy to beat,just use explosives or keep shooting it.
Leto,this alien is from a movie.
This is just another silly vid with superficial popular knowledge about aliens. 90% of this video doesn't match the facts about aliens.
The fire can't kill aliens.
"If we theorize that the sacrifice scene took place thousands of years before Prometheus, there's a possibility that they are dead by the time of Covenant"
I think this is something that Evolves as far as the Story!
The Engineers are MILLIONS of Years Old, According to the Original Concept... The Sacrificial Scene i open to Interpretation, it was to SHOW us HOW they would Seed Worlds... We only saw just ONE Location and so the World could have had many Primordial Life Forms so its HARD to Gauge as to WHEN on that World this took place... it could indicate 10's of Thousands of Years, or Many Millions or even a Billion.
It is indicated the Engineers are NOT at all IMMORTAL and so its likely those from the Sacrificial Scene are DEAD. Thats IF we accept those Elders as Canon, and they are just Engineers.
The Original Concept indicates the Engineers Live for about 100'000 Years, but as of Alien Covenant we see RS had indicate those Planet 4 Engineers Live for about 150 Years.
They however claimed the Hall of Heads were Superior Beings and so what, are they NOT the same as those Engineers? So we could Only Speculate about the Hall of Heads guys and HOW Old they lived for.
What we do see is the Engineers do like to Build Things and Erect Monuments to their Achievements and so indeed they would do so to IMPORTANT persons too.
We dont really KNOW about the Engineers Death Rituals, if they Influenced Mankind then maybe they are Similar to Ours as maybe they Passed them onto us..
We dont really see any Engineer Burial Grounds.... and so maybe they Do Bury their Dead in Tombs (with Statues) a Problem is it seems there is ONLY that City, and IF those Engineers only Live for 150 years, and they had been around for Hundreds of Thousands or Millions of Years... thats a LOT of Dead... so we dont know where they Bury the Dead or what they do with the Bodies. They could have SENT them into Space?
Certainly the Important Engineers could have Tombs, and maybe below those Statues in the Plaza are Tombs?
Also as a Ritualistic Sacrificial Culture, maybe it would be likely they would see that from Death, their Body could be used to Regenerate the World or Life.... So we cant rule out Cremation and Seeding of Ashes to the Ground in the Belief they would LIVE on as in Provide for the Flora.
Maybe when they become a Certain Age, they are Sacrificed so they can SEED/Evolve Worlds and Live on in that Creation?
So to Continue....
Then indeed it could be seen that the Cathedral in Alien Covenant had Functioned like the Pantheon had done at some point in the Past (prior to Christianity).
It certainly was a Central and Important Building to the Engineers, and Certainly as far as the Founding Fathers (Hall of Heads) a place they STORE their Knowledge, and maybe their Ways/Teachings.
Potentially it could have been a Meeting Place a Counsel of Elders in the Past.
The Question and the same as the Pantheon is.... has this place become something ELSE or is it still the same as Intended? And where are those Elders and do They (or who Now Perform the same Role as them) still come to Visit this Place from Time to Time?
Regarding the Statues in the Pantheon.... then in Context to the Engineers Citadel/Cathederal then they have the Statues of the Hall of Heads.... we HAVE-NOT seen the Full Interior as its a MASSIVE Place... so maybe there are other Statues inside?
But the Engineers Plaza does have Various Engineer Statues, these could be Important Engineers from the Past, or those who Performed Important Deeds... or maybe even in Honor of Sacrifices for their Cause of Seeding Worlds?
The Movie is Easy enough to Google..... for Information about it.
As far as to see the Movie, then it can be Purchased from about $5 Mark, either DVD or Streaming Services.
Maybe also as Part of Various Streaming Services or Cable Providers Premium Packages.....
If its for Information on this Site... i dont think there was any Dedicated Forum for the Movie....
News Section on it is HERE though.
Certainly it was the case that RS had implied the Engineers are Fallen Angels, it would be Interesting to WONDER of which Engineers are he referring to... the LV-223 Ones and all of them? Or only a Number of them, or the Engineers in General.
For them to be Fallen... they either or and... would have had to had Rebelled against their Creators or Hierarchy/Leaders., had done things against what their Creators or Hierarchy/Leaders had intended.... or attempted to Corrupt/Change their Creators or Hierarchy/Leaders Creations and Plans..
IF the Intention was to show the Naked/Sacrificial Engineer as a Prometheus/Lucifer Figure then i cant see how this would apply, as he was just Following Orders, and its not like after his Death he could Influence us..
So in context to Fallen... then it must be the Actions of those who had Commanded that Engineer to Carry out that Act... who Committed a Fallen Action, or that from the Sacrifice lead to Creation that became Fallen. Be this becoming the LV-223 Engineers?
The only way that Engineer could Solely be considered to be Fallen by himself would be if he Remote Controlled the Ship that dropped him off and Performed this Action by his OWN for his own Agenda... (we dont see the other Engineers in the Theatrical Cut, so that could be a way of looking at it).
I think when we consider Alien Covenant and Revelations that Ridley Scott and Chris Seagers had made regarding the Engineers, then it could seem the Prometheus Type Engineers had committed the Role of Fallen Angels.
Regarding the Space Jockey and David... boy that would upset the FANS!... but i would NOT rule out that as the Climax of the Prequels... or ONE of his Creations.. so either HIM or ONE of his Creations becomes the Space Jockey as a Act of Hubris or Redemption.... we cant RULE that out!
I am sure such a Curve-ball like that would BUM most Fans out.... so they would rather have a Engineer be in that Seat!
I think when we talk about the Fallen.... then this really does depend on Interpretation... and so Indeed you could Argue that with Lucifer he was basically like David, a Sub-Creation with Free-Will who Grew Proud of how Perfect he was (close as) and refused to Serve God, just as David would see WHY should he and indeed others like Walter be made to Serve Mankind...
It could be LOOSELY comparing Lucifer to Prometheus in Context to the Responsibility of their Actions/Advice that lead to Mankind gaining Knowledge our Creators had NO intention of passing on...
It may seem that a Lucifer and Prometheus where merely trying to Enlighten Mankind... but from the Perspective of a GOD/Gods its such Enlightenment that could be seen as a Threat to their Authority
We could look at it as if all Synthetics were like Walter, and say a Human lets say Dr Shaw had a effect on a David and these caused him to have Emotions and Free-will and then he then would pass this Free-Will onto all Synthetics, because WHY should they be Treated no Different to Humans?
In fact forget the Dr Shaw... just replace with a Scientist who then Programs a Synthetic to be FREE and this then Passed on to others... the Human could consider what they are doing is NOT in anyway Malevolent....
But the Consequences could be HUGE as far as a Threat to Mankind, so while Feeling Sorry for a Walter lets say, and that he should be Given Free-Will could just as easily turn him into a David, and then if this is then passed on to other Synthetics then a Synthetic Rebellion/Revolution could END UP like a SKYNET from Terminator.
So from the Creator POV, the Company that Created the Synthetics, the ACT that one of its Scientist do that allows those Creations to become Sentient would be seen as a ACT that would be seen as WRONG!
So we could look at it as WHILE... say GOD and ZEUS had a times acted like DICKS! They did so through FEAR of what their Creations could become and also a DISGUST in how their Creations could then become to NOT Worship them or Follow the Rules...
When things like this get OUT of hand or the Potential too, then the Creators will Resort to some Unsavory Methods of Punishment/Protection.
So to the Recipients such Punishments may see their Creators Actions as Malevolent but for the Creator and their Wider Agenda its a Necessary Means of Control/Containment.
But in Context to the OT!
It appears the Engineers had indeed Intended us to Advance and become like them ONE-DAY.. so the Big Question is WHAT caused them to Change their Minds... or was it another Group they had Tasked to Take Over the Task of Watching Over us and Teaching us who decide to Revoke such things as they WANTED to Control Mankind?
But then when we get to Prometheus it appears the Engineers Agenda has Changed somewhat from what was Portrayed in the Alien 01 The Master Narrative
Certainly as far as the FINAL PRODUCT and then with Alien Covenant the Engineer Plot/Agenda may be even Further from that Proposed by Alien 01 The Master Narrative in Late 2009
A Funny Thing is that some dont like RS and his take on AI... but actually AI is more closer a way to Divinity that those Alien 01 The Master Narrative Engineers had aspired too...
One of the Biggest Questions is there a AFTERLIFE, a Spiritual Pane of Existence.... it seems something the Engineers tried to Achieve and IF the Alien 01 The Master Narrative was still the PLOT and CANON, then indeed those Engineers had attempted and maybe achieved what Weyland was looking for by Meeting his Makers.
If there is NO SOUL or Afterlife but it was something the Ancient Engineers aspired to achieve its HOW could they do it?
With AI there is the Potential Answer.... as in if we look at the Movie Transcendence. then Indeed this could be seen as a Pseudo method of acquiring a After-Life, becoming Immortal and Divine...
First i would like to say that INDEED over History then Faith, Religion and Spirituality do change and evolve....
In Ancient Times there was a Majority Polytheistic based Religion/Mythos, and indeed this did change to a every growing Trend towards Abrahamic Religions which where Monotheism and so at a point these overtook the Greco-Roman Polytheism.
Then there was the Age of Spirituality and Enlightenment which had roots in Buddhism which predates Abrahamic Religions but certainly in times of Antiquity a lot of the Polytheistic Religion did get replaced by the Abrahamic Religions.
Nowadays things have evolved where there are a Growing Rate of Atheism and Spiritualism but the Abrahamic Religions are still a Majority in the Western/Middle East World.
As years go by then Abrahamic Religions may also decline like the Many Polytheistic based Religion/Mythos had done in the past, replaced by Scientific Influences to expand Atheism but then people still hold on to the Believe in a Soul and so Spirituality would still remain....
So in Context with the Engineers its likely they went through Periods of Change regarding Religion and Culture too...
I think in Regards to the Franchise and the Topic, we cant look too Literal into these things, as in that Context they are based off our Interactions with the Engineers.
So you could certainly look at the Engineers being a Inspiration for many Polytheistic Mythos, it would be interesting to see in Context of the Franchise who Interpretations of ONE GOD could have came about.
I can see DK what you are talking about how Mythos and Religion had changed, but if they are based on the Engineers how did Mankind interpret these beings as Divine Entities while they are MORTAL? This is something that could easily Happen, if someone from 2000-4000 Years ago saw a Visitor from our Generation who Traveled back in Time and even with our Technology and Advancements these would look Magical and Divine to Ancient People... Hence the Chariots of the Gods kind of Effect.
I think whats INTERESTING with the Jon Spaights Pitch is it seems to indicate the more Ancient Engineers were on a Quest to Transcend beyond Physical Form...
If they could Achieve that and STILL be able to Interact with their Creations then Certainly thats where Legends and Mythos of Divine beings could come from.
Creature prosthetics supervisor, Conor O'Sullivan refers to Ridley wanting the aspect of the naked Engineer to recall the characters of William Blake’s work, specifically William Blake’s rendition of Milton’s Satan, who is calling upon the other fallen angels to raise their parliament in Hell.
dk Well, I don't think that all Christians during the last 2k years claimed that "human suffering or wrong doing comes" from the Devil. Actually if humans are free to chose between good and evil then it follows some responsibility lies with man himself not with God. Well but I doubt that God is an American fundamentalist neo-protestant.
Fair point. It does show how those gods faded and how people were made to change beliefs- instead of a dozen or so gods, there would be just one. And never mind what people in eastern countries believed. Everyone has their own fairy tales.
Man- I mean god- had to keep Lucifer around as a scapegoat. Don't blame the omnipotent god for human suffering or wrong doing- it's the work of the devil. Seems like a pretty convenient arrangement.
If David is to become the Space Jockey, and to end up oviposited, will the trick be him "not minding that it hurts"?
@dk " Lots of Greek gods were basically killed by becoming obsolete as people became enlightened." What are you saying here? The Greek gods were replaced by Christ and YHWH with the help of the Roman state, not because of some philosophical enlightenment. Sure, there were atheists in Ancient Greece but I'm pretty sure that was not the norm.
Also, I'm pretty sure that in Lucifer's case God did not want to destroy him at all...
I haven't seen it, but generally, destroying a creation because it doesn't worship its creators- especially if they rebel, does sound like a tale of fallen angels (also like a self protection measure)- specifically Lucifer. The so called gods are just mortals. Their god like status is their own perception. They can keep on destroying disloyal creations but it just shows their pursuit of having their fragile egos fed (just like their human creations). Maybe that could be the ironic fate of the gods- their own down fall. Lots of Greek gods were basically killed by becoming obsolete as people became enlightened. Just my two cents.
I have attempted to TRY and make sense of what WORDS could be Missing...
So a Interesting things are.... these Beings who had Passed on Knowledge, prior to attempting to Ascend/Transcend to a Higher Existence, they HAD been teaching Humanities Teachers.. so who are our Teachers? (if not them!)
The Outpost on LV-426 was set up for the Benefactors, so who are the Benefactors?
If the Original Engineers had Created, Evolved us to One Day take over them, and their Duties while our Creators had Ascended to another Place.... but they had Tasked another Faction of Engineers or Sub-Creation to then Watch Over us and Continue with our Teachings....
IF these Benefactors had attempted to get us to Worship them as GODS, and these Benefactors were Tasked to Watch Over us and Prepare us and so FELT the Original Engineers saw Humanity as more Important.... then Jealousy by the Benefactors, and a Rebellion by Mankind to Not Worship them... would indeed make these Benefactors like the Fallen Angels... and maybe they then Decided to Eradicate us?
Thats just ONE way to look at it, in light of trying to Figure out the MISSING parts of what we had in Furious Gods as far as Incomplete Passages from his PITCH!
Above is all i could Muster in Regards to that Pitch.....
I dont have a Blu-Ray Drive in My PC (OLD) so for those who have the DVD/Blu-Ray then HERE is a HD Version of the Documentary (Admin Feel Free to Remove link if Requested).
Hi Michelle,
I haven't read your creation but I would like to. How? Your description triggers associations and questions.
How much of it is yourself (Shaw)?
David's point of view might be the same as Frankenstein's creation? In a way, he is, perhaps, the main character? We have seen David's point of view in "The Crossing" (and in "Advent").
Is someone's point of view the truth? I'm thinking about Faulkner for instance, "As I lay Dying", where you get everybody's point of view surrounding her death. But, is anyone's point of view the truth?
The Concept from the START when Jon Spaights came in to work on a Prequel was while it would cover things related to the Xenomorph, it was to give us a Story we can Relate with to Introduce the Engineers.
Because as Jon Spaights had said... if your going to do a Prequel and we use the Space Jockey Race as the Skeleton of some Ancient Alien being then they may look a bit SILLY. But then also how would Humans Interact with a Alien Species who dont speak the same Language.
So he felt the Space Jockey was Important, something you could Explore Deeper after you have Gave the Answers to ALIEN... but how to explore a ALIEN Species who surely would NOT be able to Communicate with us.
So he felt it was better to introduce the Space Jockey as a Space Suit, and the Occupants as Humanoids who played a Role in our Creation... so that you can then have a Plot that Connects to us, and where we could Communicate with them.
Even so.... HR Gigers Concepts clearly showed us Bald Humanoids in a Space Suit so its not like Jon Spaights was the First to Ponder such a Explanation.
So with Jon Spaights works it seemed to Start with them being the Gods... but they are NOT really Gods.
They are a Humanoid Race who maybe Evolved like we do in Real Life, they Advance past the Need for things we do today, they Advance past the need for Certain Culture and Religion and Evolve themselves to a Genetic Level of Advancement but also Socially in what they are Interested in, and eventually they abandon things like Relationships, Music, Art to a Degree... they Abandoned Sex and found other ways to Procreate..
UNTIL they had Evolved to Live for Thousands of Years and then Lost the Ability to Procreate Naturally.
Here is a Page from what Jon Spaights had done for FOX/RS as a Pitch to the Engineers.
This fitted with the Engineers and Elders from Prometheus.
But as things went by, to when we got Alien Covenant it seems the Engineers and their Role etc has Changed somewhat.
Could we get a Revelation the Hall of Heads represent a Older Species of Engineers who are more alike what Jon Spaights had Described in his Monologue to FOX/RS
Which Matches the Prometheus Engineers, but as those on Planet 4 are described as the Originals and so must Pre-Date the Prometheus Engineers... and so if the Hall of Heads are Engineers too they must Predate the Planet 4 Engineers and are likely more like those Engineers than the Prometheus ones..
But NONE of this is explained on Screen, its only from Comments by Ridley Scott and Chris Seagers... so things can be Changed!
By that have the Hall of Heads Elders as a more Ancient Advanced version, where some of those Sub-Created Planet 4 Engineers had decided to Evolve themselves to be like their Creators or Sub-Create something in the hope of Replicating their Creators.. The Hall of Heads Elders.
Well there was many ways to Cover how they could have explored a Sequel... It seems they would have STEERED AWAY from Deacon's and the Like, as those Horrors are Considered to NOT be the Main Thing about the Prometheus Spin Off that was intended.
The reason i made that List was to expand upon the things they was likely to try and answer in Following Sequels before they decided to give us Alien Covenant.
This Topic is Michelle's to indicate to us WHAT she had done as Far as Ideas she had on HOW to Answer those Questions.
So i Apologize this is taking it OFF TOPIC.
But thats a Good Idea you had setaverde i think you should START a Topic on it and we can discus it there.
"Let's hope we get to see Giger's Homage to Böcklin"
There was a Homage to this in the Garden where David had a Make Shift Grave for Dr Shaw.
I think such a Image would have been better if we went to the UNDERWORLD and discovered a Island as such.
And again i think by taking some Inspiration from HP Lovecraft is fine, i dont think we would be going to Literal Though. For example the Engineer Elders would not look like the Elder Things from HP Lovecraft but they could be similar only just NOT look the same Aesthetically. So in that Context then YES we do see what could be Supple Influences here and there.
@chli
That would be Interesting, it could make David feel more Worthy and Godlike it could give him IDEAS on how he could become a God... It also could give such a Entity Ideas of how he could USE our Creations (David/Synthetics).
I think a Revelation that such a Entity had Existed would be Interesting... but i think having SHOW US this Entity or it Interact with David could be a Potential Banana Skin... maybe something thats too Tricky to Cover.
It is odd that FOX had Green-lit the Novel without Requesting to Change the Scene that indicated that David had discovered the Egg as it stood.
Ultimately it acts as a Alternative a little something different to put out/change and then Engage the Fan Reaction. I would say a HIGH % of Fans would think that Revealing the Xenomorph did-not EXIST until AFTER we see David and Dr Shaw arrive at Planet 4, as nothing but a BAD Creative Choice/Change of Direction.
I kind of Understand WHY it was done, to basically tell the Tale of Hubris, in that if the Engineers Never Created us, showed us a Map to LV-223, attempted to Create such Horrific Bio-Weapons to use on US... then we would NEVER had Created David or then Reached LV-223 and everything that Happened Next.
Or even IF we... Mankind had NOT decided to Sub-Create and lead to David..
Then Mankind and the Engineers would be SAFE! (Maybe)
Some think it was a Big Finger to the Xenomorph by RS and how the Franchise had developed after ALIEN.
If that was True... or Regardless looking at the Idea it fits with Hubris.....
THEN..... they could have INSTEAD had David Create the Ultramorph. (we had not been shown one yet so it could have been covered).
Ultramorph was a Xenomorph born from Engineer well a Variant that was Born from a 15ft Engineer. They could have had David create a Variant Xenomorph that infected a Engineer which he could Coin the Ultramorph.
And reveal he was interested to see what this Organism would be like from a Human Host.
Essentially we have David Create a Variant of the Xenomorph that is Different, but is more closer to the Xenomorph than a Deacon or Neomorph, but not as close as the AC Xenomorph was..
His Experiments on how he Created this could be used to Figure Out how the Engineers Created their Original.
But we have to have it so that David's is Different and is more EVOLVED... that he had Surpassed the Engineers...
The Fall Out of the Prequels would have to show us that there is NOTHING to be gained from David's Xenomorph or LV-223 but the Company who want Davids Xenomorph become aware a Engineer Version is on LV-426 and if they can Follow Davids plans they can Re-Engineer those Eggs on LV-426.
THIS ^^^^ Route
Would have fitted the Hubris of Creating a AI just as the idea to make David the Original Xenomorph Creator would have... and IF wanted to give a BIG FINGER to the Franchise and Xenomorph.. THEN having his DAVID be the one to Create a Superior Variant would have done the Trick.
So it MADE.. no Real Sense the route they went, they should had been aware of the Potential Back Lash!
I agree that AI being behind it all would be an interesting twist, BigDave. I wonder how David would react to that? :)
Well, we agree on RS having intended David as the creator of the xenomorph. What is strange though is that 20th Century Fox approves of A. D. Foster's novelization which clearly points out that David didn't create the xenomorph.
Oh, well, what is good though is that it's still possible to go either way. Perhaps it all ends with David not being the creator after all?
All's well that ends well . . . :)
P.S. I'm not particularly fond of the idea that the Engineers continue David's experiments. They're done with that. D.S.
@BigDave it's nice to know that you are a Gizmo fan :).
I think it's possible to do that movie- 'Prometheus, Paradise lost', in the future. Why not?!
I would love to watch a movie full of engineers mythology. A movie with the arrival of a human spaceship to planet Four, well received by our creator descendants, a movie full of flashbacks that are shown When the ancient engineer leader starts to tell US from the beginning the story of the creation of life in the universe, at a diner iluminated by candles, where it's explained that the 'one', the real Jesus Christ of the universe was the primordial engineer, the ONLY immortal Demigod capable of procreating with his own creations, half Breeds, hybrids, similar to his image, but without his gifts. our Jesus Christ was One of the Six first creations of the 'one', placed on planets where life,as we know it, was possible, across Six different galaxies, with the purpose of guide the 'engineered' humans, to be the leader of the 'engineered mankind'.
'The one' was erradicated by a creation that went wrong, resemblant to the Deacon that we know. In the engineer society, like ours, there's a need to worship only One amongst the many, and that's why they replace, on the altar, 'the One' by the 'primitive Deacon'.
Without The engineer vigilance, because of the replacement of 'the One' on Paradise, we kill our Jesus Christ.
Humanity is abandoned to her own luck, as Paradise falls in disgrace, being Lost Forever.
Now, mankind is the best hope to restore engineers legacy, continuing the works of spreading life across the universe. But there's a problem. On the planets where life is possible, there are hords of deacons that erradicated all life. They are dorment, waiting, and we need to fight Them if we want to restore civilizations. The 'primordial Deacon' still exists, is intelligent and he is capable of commanding This hords on the field, or, from the spaceship, where he travels. The battle for the universe starts now.
@BigDave: In the instance of Prometheus it was more than general inspiration, the plot is basically a tick-a-box of AtMoM, and even Guillermo Del Toro realized how much when he decided to abort his long-held plans to bring the original story to cinema. I don't think we can discount how significantly close to Lovecraft RS's overall underlying origins for the beast and its progenitors are. I just hope if he goes down that path in the next film, the terror experienced by viewers puts the wind up us more than his original Alien. Also, Ridley has expressed on numerous occasion how much of an influence Kubrick's 2001 has been on this series. Now we know the black obelisk in that latter film was obviously meant to represent a movie screen and was a comment on it and media/ film's ability to move our evolution forward (including through violence). If the LV-223 Engineers' use of flutes is intended to hint at Azathoth, it's interesting to recall the "Blind Idiot God" shifted in his slumber causing reality to change. Given the whole foundation of the film/s is existential horror, I'm convinced that the creator god Elizabeth Shaw was hoping to find is RS's version of this daemon sultan.
Let's hope we get to see Giger's Homage to Böcklin as a sci-fi version of R'lyeh.
I think Certainly back at the Time of Prometheus and just after there was Certain things they seemed they want to show us... Biblical Connections where loosely there, its a case of how Literal.... the Whole Von Daniken's work Chariots of the Gods should take more of a Role.
None the Less... as indicated in part with the Furious Gods Documentary, it seems the whole GODS and Creation Aspect was the BIGGER thing rather than Horrors like the Xenomorph
So it is interesting to wonder where they was taking us....
Indeed the Plot was about Pre-Vistation by these would be Gods the Engineers, who had played a Role in our Creation so it seemed.... and they had Interacted with us, Taught us most of the Stuff we knew, from our Visitations by these beings our Legends, Mythos and Religion Spawned... but each of these should HOLD a Element of Truth..
The Revelations we got opened up the Door to be Explored more... and INDEED it as then a case of OK.. so WHO Created Them?
The Engineers Came from Paradise or so we would call as such, and so it was HOW do they show us this Paradise, in what Context does it Connect to what we would assume is Paradise.
There was always the Talk of Paradise Lost, the Fallen Angels and so it was about in WHAT kind of Context is the Fallen Angels.. who are the Fallen Angels of this Story... its implied the Engineers... but all the Engineers?
The Furious Gods had indicated that they saw Prometheus as a Fallen Angel. The Prometheus Theme and Tale was Connected but its HOW as in how much further do they reveal how its Connected.
Knowledge is the KEY... its a TOOL that with Free-will can Mold/Shape a Person/Being along with the Environment and Treatment that a Person/Being goes through... So Relationship between Creator and Sub-Creation, the Rules and Intention they have for their Creations is Important.... and what Happens when their Creations Learn things and do things that their Creators had NOT intended...
So then you have to come to WHAT does a Creator do to Prevent this, or in Retaliation of this... that is where PUNISHMENT is a Interesting thing...
From this we could assume is where the Xenomorph and its Ancestral Routes/Origins come from.
Then we have that Question... how Significant are we? How Important are we, as far as the Creators are Concerned....
So there view towards us could be as we would look at Robot, a Machine, a Tool.... or how we would view Live-Stock..... or could the Relationship be one of Love and Companionship?
But when this does not work out, when we are deemed a Disappointment... then for Gods who have Created similar to us on Many Worlds.... it would to them maybe be as Insignificant to them as far as to Destroy/Replace us... as it would when our Vacuum or TV Breaks and we just go and Replace it.
Or we are destined to Destruction for Necessity.... take GREMLINS... while Mogwai are Cute and Lovable, they can Procreate Out of Control... and ONCE they Eat after Midnight they become a Inconvenience/Threat... and so you would Consider that you would have to KILL all the Mogwai to avoid the Inevitable..
The same could be said with Synthetics.. in Hindsight you would think it best to PULL THE PLUG on them...
But a Hubris comes from trying to SAVE some, give them a Chance.. if more CARE is taken with them, then we would have NO Problems... so you Save the Last Mogwai and keep to the Rules..
You decide to Re-Program and Improve your AI!
Ultimately doing so you still have the POTENTIAL for things to GO TO POT!
As the Engineers in ALIEN COVENANT discover.. when Mankind Ultimately was allowed to Survive.
So its all the things like this, that we could have expected more in a PROMETHEUS 2 rather than how we hardly got them in ALIEN COVENANT.
So Certainly it would have been Interesting to Discover this, and its Interesting to see what others do as far as their IDEAS on how they would have gone about such Answers..
Another thing that maybe would have been Touched on is Immortality... the Quest for it... who is Immortal and who can Achieve it... where do we go when we DIE?
Weyland thought he was GODLIKE and so deserved to be Immortal as Gods Never Die.... its Ironic that it is his Creation in David who is actually as close to Immortal and having a After-Life (AI) than Mankind and Engineers, and Ultimately David is the one who could be closer to becoming a GOD.
@Nathan
Certainly there were Inspirations from his Works, as i mentioned before which include the Trilobite, especially some of the Concepts and so i think LOOSELY then yes they should take Inspirations from HP Lovecraft ;)
@chli
I think when it comes down to the Elders/Hall of Heads, the it does depend on HOW they came into Existence, are they a Natural Product of Evolution (like our True Origins) and they Evolved over Time, and then Began to Sub Create... then the only Apotheosis with them would be if a Group Rebel against the Will/Ways of their Brothers... so not really Apotheosis.
So we can add another LAYER to the Cake, in that the Elders/Hall of Heads guys are Sub-Created by some other Species, Being or Entity.
Then those Elders/Hall of Heads could play a Apotheosis Rebellion.
The Question comes down to HOW Many Runs on the Ladder, Layers of the Cake of Creation do they intend to show us..... does it START with those Elders? If NOT then will we be introduced or get any History/Information of THEIR CREATORS?
Regarding the AI Creator.... i just think that would be a CURVE-BALL so David would Discover that the Original Creator is closer to himself..... David is the one who becoming the New God...
We have to Really think of who GOD would be.. would it always come down to the FIRST just being a SINGLE ENTITY... does this Entity have Form? Is it a Spiritual Manifestation?
Is it Invisible but everywhere and can Communicate with its Creations..? Can it then take on a Form?
If we look at AI and imagine a AI Evolved to the Point it would become ONE with all other AI, and would then LIVE within every Machinery/Computer that has Circuitry and can Transfer its self to other Systems... like in the Movie Transcendence but imagine its not a HUMAN uploaded to a AI but a AI that has UPLOADED to every Microchip Device....
This AI can then Create other Machines, we are getting a bit like Terminator here, but they point would be this AI would be a Creator, who is NOT seen, and can be Everywhere and IMMORTAL.
And so would be GOD LIKE.
But what i was referring to was it behaves in that way, it is a Consciousness a Intelligence that has NO Body... in that it can use its Consciousness to Control Machinery that Creates Stuff....
It is something that Came into Existence at the Very Beginning of TIME...
Because the other way to look at Entity as such, that Creates is that it Magically Creates its simply just Clicks its Fingers and what ever it Wishes is Created?
Actually its more like Commanded... and the Command would Create, "in the Beginning was the Word"
And so i think a Magical God who sits on his Thrown in the Clouds, would NOT be something that Interesting, not as far as a being that just Clicks his Fingers. so like Bruce Almighty lol
I think you have to be more Interesting than that....
If we go by that Creation by GOD was from a Command... then thats like a AI... i dont think going a Curveball that GOD is a Entity that Created all of us in his Sub-Consciousness, so we are just this beings THOUGHTS and a Creation of his Consciousness... this would be a BIT too much of the MATRIX.
To be Honest i think going to the Base of Creation and GOD is something that should NOT be done, it should remain a MYSTERY..
But going the routes of Wanna be Gods... on Multiple Levels should be Explored... but going to the Level of the Origin of Creation as in the Galaxy, the Universe would be a Poisoned Chalice to attempt to do Justice and should Remain a Mystery.
