New Replies (Page 227)

Paul Verhoeven 

Some films of him:

https://m.imdb.com/name/nm0779524/filmotype/director?ref_=m_nmfm_1Luke Scott.

'Morgan' 2016 is a good movie.

I wasn't aware of this at all I Raptus so thank you for pointing out the novel & the film.

I'll seek both out!

I don't think it matters much who directs. The main problem up to now has been studio/producer interference, meddling with the script & forced changes.

Good point ignorantGuy Now we just need to ask Ridley if he considers that canon in his Alien Universe! :)

The second link is better. You have the pictures in individual documents.

H. R. GIGER work deserves to be of common knowledge.

Nothing substitutes the original book, to flip through the paper pages, that feeling of possession of something unique.

 Here's the link to the science article, that motivated me to create This topic,

@Lone

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/09/13/motherless-babies-possible-as-scientists-create-live-offspring-w/amp/

Reality is far more scary than fiction.

Playing God.

According to H. R. GIGER, the skin of Any kind of xenomorph has to be translucid, like we see it on the facehugger eggs when the light reflects on Them and we see the facehuggers moving, reacting to the light. Other thing that H. R. GIGER brought to the alien films was "the culture of the Kiss that Kills". Curiously, Alien Resurrection respects the wishes of H. R. GIGER, maybe because Jean pierre-jeunet is European like H. R. GIGER, and French. Both speak French, although the maternal language of H. R. GIGER is german. In switzerland, in some regions the language mostly spoked is French and, in others, is german. For instance, the swiss Roger Federer, one of the best tennis players of all time, has german as his maternal language.

@Lone Ash was as a Hyperdyne Systems model according to Aliens, not made by WY. As was Bishop according to avp.fandom wiki. And you know what? The relationship between Ash and Bishop seem similar to David and Walter, both were upgraded with emotion inhibitors. How can something full of nostalgia be scary?  

@ignorantGuy

It is the same old story, Ridley is the one who discussed the dangerous A.I. aspect in interviews. The irony being that in trying to get away from the over-cooked beast, he focused on a crazy A.I. which is also nothing new. David's evolution has been interesting nevertheless, though not to everyone's liking.

At the end of the day there is very little in Sci-fi which has not been seen before. Old themes & concepts are constantly being recycled & reinvented by script writers & directors. 

Why would you create a synthetic who has the potential to go haywire in the way that David did? (It wasn't until after ALIEN that the ASIMOV protocols were put in place.) You would think that someone as clever & influential as Peter Weyland would have had more foresight. Apparently not!

Just to confuse matters, Walter apparently had 'upgrades', which had nothing to do with Weyland, but whoever took control of Weyland Corp after Weyland's death. Yet, Ash was not programmed with those protocols. It's rather messy as it stands.

there is a wealth of Strange Creatures and Art from HR Giger that could be used in numerous ways if we expand beyond Xenomorphs.

BigDave god I hope this does become a thing! But would Giger's estate allow the Alien franchise use of his materials after the soured history between the two do you think? 

I agree with Leto. Alex Whites Alien: The Cold Forge is a must read. As well as being an enjoyable plot White attempt's to fill in some of the enigma of the xenomorph reproductive systems :)

I’ve been having the same questions of who should do the music (it’s something I do).

Lone "David is a warning about what could happen if an A.I is set free of restriction & human control.[...] By COVENANT, the damage he sustained plus lack of maintenance has resulted in his maniacal behaviour."

Can't you see a contradiction in your statements there? Even if they had put all those restrictions on him what good they would have been in case of severe damage? This could work only as a cautionary tale against AI plain and simple. Which is the same old story since the appearance of the term Robot.

And why would Weyland make a "perfect" boy with sex drives but also impotent?

@BigDave

"which then David takes as Dr Shaw being the same as every other Human", yet he does not have a shrine to every human and a full collection of porn mags of them. This is the kind of behavior of stalkers (rapists) if anything.

I think the world presented in Raised by Wolves will not have the deranged sex offender baggage to it. But the funny thing is Netflix is Releasing I am Mother next week beating RS at this game.

Im not going to lie the film is pretty weak and frustrating, especially towards the end. It is Entertaining at best. 

Yes! It does have a bit of Pitch Black to it!

Im just wondering if the book goes into more detail about the Vesps life cycle and origins, i feel the movie left huge portions outs. I just cant see Lebbon writing something so shallow. 

I am unfamiliar with these but added to my list. From the trailer and what you describe, it still sounds interesting. If I watched it without knowing the background, just from the trailer, I would have guessed a little Pitch Black vibe in there and wouldn't guess anything Alien.  At any rate, I will try to see it this summer.

@setaverde

PROMETHEUS is filled with so many interesting elements. Ridley said that if you wanted to kill thousands, or millions of people all you need do is add some virus to the water supply.

It's a scary thought, all of those labs filled with every virus known to man. Experiments in Biological Warfare. The Plum Island Animal Disease Facility, for example!

David is a warning about what could happen if an A.I is set free of restriction & human control. In PROMETHEUS, he was the flip-side of the Clone Engineers, who turned on their own masters. By COVENANT, the damage he sustained plus lack of maintenance has resulted in his maniacal behaviour.

That reminded me of Ash, when he attacked Ripley, hell bent on killing her, fellatio style, with the rolled up magazine. Both he & David are 'impotent', which seems to contribute to their treatment of the women who question their actions or motives. It provokes seemingly berserk behaviour!

The problem is that in COVENANT, on the one hand we have mad scientist David's over-the-top Peter O'toole-Lawrence impression, with it's seriousness, intellectual rumination, flute obsession & literary quotation, set against the Covenant crew as monster fodder, action-horror storyline. Those elements do not gel successfully. The more I watch COVENANT, it feels like two films spliced together.

Denis Villeneuve

or

Neil Blomkamp

I liked Villeneuve's Blade Runner 2049.

Mixing science with fiction, science fiction. Sometimes dreams come true. Maybe Einstein is  the biggest example. We love science fiction because we are dreamers. We like to dream with our eyes wide Open.

Prometheus is an amazing film. Everything is so plausible and rational. 

What fears me the most is the biological advances/ breakthroughs. The desire  to be god Will provoke our extinction. More than machines/androids/robots. 

Easy. You don't understand me. I just write about alien circle from TCF book. I don't criticize you! I just wrote that the Alien life-cycle from the TCF is similar to what you wrote and I thought that it would be interesting for you.

I have written a thesis, a cientific One. But that's not important. It was when i wrote it, but not any more.

Well, you have to do it. You will be pleasantly surprised.

Leto, i never read that book, "cold forge".

Second, This is based on a science article. I never meant to be original. I ONLY bring ideas to the table, good ones, i may say. Prometheus opened with an engineer drinking  a Yellow gold liquid, that does exactly what i've described.This is not the right place to write a thesis.

Well, i'm sorry. It's my dream to achieve your high standards. Don't bother to answer me.

Do you read The Cold Forge?

Ovomorph - first organism.

Facehugger - second.

Plagiarus Praepotense - third. The bacterium that rewrite DNA and creates Alien. Facehugger is just a host for Plagiarus Praepotense. Plagiarus Praepotense can create Alien without facehugger. Like Black Goo.

Welcome... and i give this a proper reply at some point over the Weekend.

I will say First... they need to find what PLOT for the Next Alien Movie, regardless of it being a Prequel Continuation a Alien Resurrection Continuation or something else.

ONCE... they have the Kind of Idea/Plot for what they want to do, then you can start to think which Director would suit that Kind of Movie, because Each Director has Strengths and Weaknesses depending what kind of Movie they are working on.

For Instance i dont think a Ridley Scott would be good for a Starship Troopers all Action Re-boot... but he could do well with a Thought Provoking Terminator Movie.

I think the "i will do the same to you" can be ambiguous.

What had David done to Dr Shaw?   Experimented on her to Create his Monsters...

But then we see him try and KISS Daniels... we could certainly assume that David had Grown Feelings for Dr Shaw and became Deluded that he could have some Relationship with her...   so he maybe made some Advances to her and she FREAKED out.... became concerned...

David does-not take Rejection well... its likely that Dr Shaw also Discovers what David had done to Planet 4 and the Engineers and the Experiments, and then David likely gave some Excuse and Reason, saying he was doing it for HER and offer her a chance to Create a New Eden... could he have said he could find a way to allow her to BARE Child?

So again she maybe Rejected this too, and then realized David has gone Crazy, and so then tries to Escape, which then David takes as Dr Shaw being the same as every other Human, and then WELL.... this is when he decides he has OTHER plans for her.

You have to Wonder.... if Dr Shaw had also gained more than Platonic Love for David... and she had welcomed him Destroying those Engineers who wanted to Destroy Mankind, and then using Experiments and Engineer DNA he could allow Dr Shaw to give Birth to Humanoids and Start a New Eden.

Then would David had turned out the way he had?

Why i am drawn from RS comments, that maybe David would see Origae-6 as a way to Start a New Civilization, that he will intend for those Innocent/Pure Embryos which he may Evolve/Perfect as his own Humanity and Govern over with some kind of Love/Care....

Until some Humans arrive and David's Children then wonder what they are seeing, and they become Corrupt with knowledge the Humans hand down and Discover David is NO GOD, and then maybe the Discover other Truths about David and then the £$"£% Hits the Fan and David has to UNLEASH his Horrors (Xenomorph) on this World!

I have a feeling that Raised by Wolves may carry a lot of ideas that RS may have intended for Alien Covenant 2 the kind of TV show that would be, i feel would not be Accepted in a Alien Movie for a lot of Fans..

Many are plain and simply Fed up with the whole David ARC and it being about him.

I think indeed a lot does go by the Trailers, and a Trailer can have a Impact.... most Trailers and Especially for the Alien Franchise do-not really seem to show SILLY Characters.

Prometheus and Alien Covenants Trailers do-not show that the Movie has Dumb or Boring Characters, Alien Resurrection Trailer seems to indicate more Dumb Movie in regards to Trailer.  I would Say ALIENS Trailer shows more Dumb/Goofy things.... than the Prequel Trailers. Not saying there is a lot though...

Quite a bit of this... WOOOO WHOOOO! HORAH!

When i say SOME PEOPLE it is a Valid Point, because you are just NOT going to make a Alien Movie that will please every kind of Alien Fan....  its Very Naive to think eveyone would say be Amazed at a Blomkamp Alien 3 Reboot, and by the same Token not every Fan will like a Alien Covenant 2 if its more about David and less Xenomorph... 

As i said its not easy to try and make more than  ONE more Prequel to ALIEN...  by Virtue of a Prequel then its expected we are going to see Xenomorphs, Engineers and their Ships and HOW/WHEN those Eggs get on the Derelict...while a lot of Fans will HOPE its not about David or that he is responsible.

So the PLOT Elements are not going to please every FAN!

Regardless... you HAVE to have Human Characters and they have to be Well Written and Executed or else any kind of Alien Movie would just not be a Success!

BigDave you are correct he is not just a Genocidal maniac, he is also delusional to the highest degree, a rapist (he said that he will do the same thing to Daniels as he did to Shaw after which he sexually assaults her). Why might even be considered a N***. In my mind he is a character from a Hentai.

Space 2001 (2001: A space Odyssey?) or Mountains of Madness (At the Mountains of Madness ?) might be some well know movies but I've never heard about them,

I think there is just as much Love too Lone ;)

One of those things in LIFE, where people tend to Voice what they HATE more than they LIKE.

Like we get Protests when we are not HAPPY.. you dont see people with Banners Standing outside of Governments Praising what Good things are being done... not as much as when something to Complain about we go out in FORCE!

I think RS was right in how to expand the Franchise... because indeed ONCE you Discover HOW/WHEN/WHY the Xenomorph was Created and Give it a Run Out in the Prequels..

Then what do you do?   More Alien Movies with Xenomorphs?  You cant keep doing this...

And so the Space Jockey Race was a NEW area to explore and expand, the PLOT was Bold, maybe Too Bold really.

Maybe some Fans would have liked to see the Space Jockey introduced as a Alien Race who was in a Conflict with another RACE that is FAR FAR away and Unconnected to Mankind, but  its HOW do you introduce Humans into such a PLOT!

Then expanding on Sequels... do we go and see WHO the Space Jockey was at WAR/Conflict with,  Maybe its Predators lol... but then HOW do you introduce Humans?

So they saw the Chariots of the Gods/Ancient Aliens like Plot as way to do this....

A Prometheus Sequel did-not have to give in to be Alien Covenant.... the Engineers Paradise could have been Thousands of Light Years away... and in a Part of the Galaxy with more HUMANS... do we just accept Earth is the ONLY Place where there are Humans?

Spot on Reply Lone ;)

I personally think while David was not best executed in Alien Covenant, i dont think he was that bad... i think you could explore and evolve his Character, have him become more than just a Genocidal Maniac as some only see him as.

I had some ideas on how to do a Alien Covenant 2 and 3, which were Alien: Ascension and Alien: Absolution but both ideas would likely NOT fit in a 2 Hour movie and so would be like 3 Hours Each lol   The idea would not be a very ALIEN movie though, and there would be NO Engineers apart from a Set-Up for the 2nd Movie which then would END with us being at ALIEN

So Alien Ascension would be more about "what David World Creates" and how things go to POT when Humans Arrive, its actually not too FAR off what Ridley Scotts upcoming TV Show Raised by Wolves sounds like only i submitted my ideas MONTHS prior...

Alien Ascension would have some Monsters... would maybe need to be a Part 1 and Part 2 or i have to make a Idea between Ascension and Absolution.

But Fans who dont like say a Mountains of Madness, Prometheus, Blade Runner, Space 2001 etc would likely NOT be interested in such ideas i had... Absolution would be more Action Based and like a AVP (to a degree) with Engineers lol

But i think this is what Ridley Scott Faces too, many Fans and Disney may just want to see a Aliens/Alien Resurrection kind of Flick!  I think the Thought Provoking and Chariots of the Gods like Plot/Ideas are too BOLD for a lot of Fans who are used to what they get in the Comics ;)

Maybe Prometheus should have NOT been a ALIEN movie, by that NO Weyland (replace with different Company and Name for Owner), have the Planet not be a LV world, and the Engineers Ships/Technology not similar to ALIEN as in looking like the Derelict/Space Jockey but they could still have that HR Giger Aesthetic.   And Finally have Monsters that are LESS like the Xenomorph.

Then as a Stand Alone Movie/Franchise thats NOT shackled down to be ALIEN, i think Prometheus could have been a Interesting Franchise.

"Not necessary. Engineers can attack Earth between Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection."

I agree, my point being that it would be a case of WHEN would they attack and WHY would they wait all that long?

If the Engineers come back say between 2105-2120 they would be very concerned with HOW it is that Humans can Travel the Stars and Create Beings that can use their Technology...  as a Race who maybe interact with Hundreds of Worlds/Races or even if its less or more... then Earth is just ONE World, so they could be Concerned and they would likely want to go to Earth and DESTROY US... unless NONE survive the Encounter with David and the Horrors that come from his Experiments.

If the Engineers are FAR spread across the Galaxy, then maybe only a Few Ships arrive back at Planet 4 and they go off after David and NONE Survive...   That does-not mean that Hundreds of Years latter some more Return to Planet 4 and Discover a message left from the Previous Ships that arrived between 2110-2120 say... and then these recently arriving Engineers say in 2220-2330 then go off to Earth etc.

So YES that could introduce them back into the Franchise between Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection.

BigDave

Fans, random people - doesn't matter. People see the trailer, people see a dumb characters (again, btw), people don't go to the film.

Writing. Work on "some fans" or even "some people" - this is Sisyphean toil. But writing good characters with smart behavior - instant win. And film theme doesn't matter - aliens, Engineers, David.

"Oh c'mon! You really don't understand?"

What is there NOT to understand?  Your point is Valid, in that regardless of ideas, you need someone to WRITE a Solid Story then the right Director and Actor to Execute the Story.  Sometimes a Character is only as Good as they are Written and how they are Influenced to Perform that Character by the Director....  Prometheus was flawed, it had some silly moments...  Alien Covenant not so, but the Characters where FLAT!  Looking at John Logan i dont have much Confidence in his approach, it seems he is maybe not suited to this kind of Franchise.

But back to your reply, Certainly Good Characters and Good Directing is required, Visually Ridley Scott is Exceptional (few Flaws) but sometimes he is Maybe not the Best at getting Characters to Shine. (apart from a few) I dont think he is as bad as some make out though.

And so even if we had a Gangbusters Alien 5 lets Reboot Alien 3 Plot.... or even a like the Many Aliens Comics like Plot, if these also DONT get Good Characters that are Executed then what you have is basically no more better than the Starship Trooper Sequels with Xenomorphs!

"I know - we all want Blomkamp's Alien 5."

Depends on WHO we are... those who maybe like the Action of AVP and Alien Resurrection and Love it in Aliens would maybe be all up for this... but NOT every Fan is excited about a Discover Egg/Eggs/Queen, lots of Chest Busting, lots of running and shooting at Xenomorphs kind of Movie.

Some will like such a thing and i think there is a Market for such and i feel that YES you could do this 1-2 more times before you also have to have something different... 3 Alien Movies that are like Aliens is not gonna work... 3 Alien Movies that are like Alien 3 are not going to work, you have to have a Balance, so a Action Movie, then a Horror One and then one thats like a Cross Between a Prometheus/Alien Resurrection in terms of Plot/Style would work.

Some Fans would not be interested in seeing a Bring Back Ripley, and maybe Fans have to accept in Alien 3 people Died, like some Fans have to accept that from Aliens on-wards Eggs come from Queens.  So some Fans would not like to see a Alien 3 get Rebooted.... like i am sure some Fans would HATE it if say AC was a HIT and eventually we Rebooted Aliens and the Queen!

Whats done has been done.....

But some Fans would love to see a Aliens 2, Aliens 3 and Aliens 4 which by then we have a 80+ year Old Ripley who then either needs the Exo-Suit that Peter Weyland used in Prometheus.

Like this...

Or she permanently is attached to this.

On a serious note....

I would welcome another Alien Movie by Blomkamp and Cameron that uses some of their ideas, that is more Action, but that DOES-NOT resurrect Dead Characters or Conflict prior Movies!

I'd watch Fassbender in anything, he's an amazing actor. He's the best part of this series imo. 

Who here could have predicted the amount of hatred Ridley's return to the ALIEN Universe has generated?

That hatred not only directed at Prometheus & Covenant, but towards Ridley himself. It's heartbreaking!

For those of us who appreciate the vision of H.R. Giger & ALIEN's Lovecraftian themes, COVENANT was a turnaround of sorts. 

While it's another fine example of Ridley's visual skills & a showcase for Michael Fassbender's talent, it's backtracking from the story set up by PROMETHEUS, mish-mash of ideas, not-so-subtle Alien Universe tropes, alongside the pretty heavy handed expansion of David's character, left it muddled & for the most part confusing & unsatisfactory as a follow up.

Ridley had the right idea when he made PROMETHEUS. It shifted the emphasis towards something new, while  respecting & connecting to Lovecraftian themes, Dan O'Bannon's ideas & H.R. Giger's artwork. It was a beginning, which is why those elements were tempered, but could have developed & gone further towards the cosmic horror created in ALIEN with each sequel. 

I feel it was brave, sophisticated & polished. Sadly, some of the backlash created by PROMETHEUS caused the studio & perhaps Ridley himself to get cold feet. That's why we ended up with COVENANT rather than the originally intended sequel.

FOX were afraid of pursuing the story Ridley intended. I doubt that Disney will feel any differently. The themes & story beats explored & opened up in ALIEN & PROMETHEUS are not for the average cinema goer. 

IF the Engineers arrive at Origae-6 and deal with David, then unless they are Destroyed you would assume the Engineers may want to pay Mankind a Visit which could CONFLICT with the Alien Franchise.

Not necessary. Engineers can attack Earth between Alien 3 and Alien Resurection. First squad of Engineers go to Origae-6 and give to us the Alien prequel. But second squad (or all they civilization) can go to Earth after some years after Alien 3.

And maybe Planet 4 is the homeworld of Engineers. But they a space race - they can have thousands planets for them civilization. And I mean them - Engineers civilization, not planets for they creatures - it can be millions?

And i think - Engineers can have different scales or nature (biological, biomechanical). Maybe some Engineers really grew from the chair.

BigDave

Oh c'mon! You really don't understand? Philosophy, myths, chariots of the Gods, Alien, Queen - themes doesn't matter. Writing - does. Maybe you mean a philosophy with stupid characters? Ridley's stories incompatible with smart characters? Whatever, I think - Disney go with good and smart characters.

daliens

I know - we all want Blomkamp's Alien 5. I'm sure - Cameron will be a producer, not a director. Blomkamp can do it.