Comments (Page 273)

As for the contrived setup where David gets into the shoes of the angry engineer and rips the head of another synthetic that has perhaps just arrived from Earth or ( another planet where engineers left their seeds - after all it is unlikely that engineers had only one planet, like earth )...so I was just having a laugh, woudln't it be ironic if David gets disturbed by a similar being just like himself, all this perfect and bold and boring :)

The earlier post is another way of history repeating itself only that now David's children are the engineers and the story starts over :)

I mean what is more left in this universe to explore?

BTW, I would like to hear what hardcore ALIEN fans want to see in the sequel, should it come out. Come on, spell the beans. Like what aspects and what stories are you deeming as worthy to explore? I am genuinely curious.

I hope this is not too offtopic.

Wait. There is more. If you feel like it...you can make the end of David even more sad for him. If you feel like he had it too much his way how about this:

his children, even though they are endowed with immortality on microscopic organelle level, something that humans, and even their magnificent makers never had the luck to lay their hands on...they lack something fundamental : they can't reproduce sexually! Something in their makeup just doesn't allow them have it all their way. It all looks like as if this it is the curse on David and his children from the bearded old man from above the skies :) - the ultimate irony. Something in this universe doesn't allow David quite have it all. What's more - the offspring of his children are some sort of beasts ... like that fellow with a beak from the fresco from the head room in Prometheus.

And when David gets his custom design organic body, that he engineered and he tries to conceive a child what he gets is something very ugly indeed - he gets the beast eerily similar to the one from the same head room, only this time the beast looks like a xenomorph. It wipes out many of his children. But they manage to stop it, at great cost. It is at this point David looks at his ugly family and things that he wished he never created ... these poor bastards :)

His children are diminishing in their number as they are roaming the universe in hope to find the solution ... and the only way they can keep their way of life is if they sustain their population by periodically raiding the earth and humans, taking their embryos with the subsequent genetic conversion. Thus they need to visit the earth from time to time raze the human civilization to the ground leaving just enough specimen so they can start over from the stone age all over again ... so they can visit them later on.

Eventually, David's children discard David in anger for the fate he doomed them with. They are bound to carry out the same experiments on LV-223 that engineers where indulging with. They repopulate the Planet 4. And select ones get to go on to LV-223 to carry on the dangerous mission - unending search for a sexual reproduction.

Certainly should have been the way to look at it ;)

Its kind of a idea i was going to eventually introduce in Prometheus Sequels...  likely a Prometheus 4.

This Mural indicated to me a Genetic/Synthetic Connection between the Ship and the Xenomorph, it indicated to me the Ship produced the Eggs... and indeed this Mural was to be placed over the Egg Chambers Segments that had Bio-Mechanical Pregnant like Bellies that HR Giger had said would produce the Eggs.

The other Concepts show the occupants of those Space Suits to be BALD Humanoids...

I think we had to discus the Aesthetic Differences and Size between the Juggernaught and Derelict and look at HR Gigers Surreal World and ideas.. but bare in mind Prometheus!

To me this shows there is some Symbiotic Relationship between the Humanoid Pilots who Self Sacrifice for the Xenomorph...  via Ships that Produce the Eggs.

Do these Humanoids Create this Technology? Why Self-Sacrifice...  could they had created Mankind to replace them in the Self-Sacrifice?   Is some other Race who being the ones behind the Technology and the Humanoid Race Serve a Function, are they Enslaved? do they have a Covenant that requires some Sacrifices?

Are these Humanoids Created by some other Race who also Created the Ships? Or was they a Race this other Race encountered and Enslaved or a Combination, a Race they encountered and Re-Engineered as Sacrificial Slaves?

Then the Prometheus Element could come into play to show these Humanoids Rebelled against their Creators, they became Free... but then some of them then Started to Re-Engineer their Technology of their Ancient Masters/Enslavers which brings us to the difference in the Aesthetics...

I felt that exploration of something like this would fit with Prometheus but also allow for something more HP Lovecratian and HR Giger to be explored.

But the PATH of Alien Covenant has maybe limited such a thing to be explored.

Aliens Resistance released the other day, and after one issue I'm impressed with how they are handling Amanda Riply after Isolation.Not much except that she was adrift in space for 3 days before being recovered so far.

"Now, just for laughs, BigDave"

To be fair... i think some of the ideas you discussed for David and what he would do NEXT... could be something that has happened in the past but NOT with our Particular David  certainly could make us look at the LV-223 Engineers being the Engineers Equivalent of our Synthetics... or even did the Engineers Create Synthetic Life that Rebelled and went on to Engineer the LV-223 Engineers?

So the Story/Journey of Davids Creation, Fall could be something that has happened before at another Level? 

Ridley Scott had indicated with Prometheus that Creation like ours is not limited to Earth... he even pondered that Earth had prior Humanoids to Modern Mankind.. well Civilizations... mentioning ATLANTIS 

"BigDave no more Ripley, enough..."

Certainly Ignorant Guy... i feel her Story has been Told... what i was saying is i was suspecting that RS may have planned to have his Prequels... then his ALIEN, and the conflicts his Prequels have with the sequels to ALIEN could be undone.. if he IGNORES the events of ALIENS and on-wards...  He did say about Ripley you could Re-introduce her and De-Age her... for what reason?  To make a Alien 5 as in sequel to Resurrection?  To make a alternative Alien 3? or even to make a Alternative ALIEN sequel.... so the Franchise after ALIEN goes the way RS may have wanted?

My answer to any of that is PLEASE NO!

The only route to ever consider a Ripley Continuation would have to be a sequel to ALIEN Resurrection.  And while i have a idea how they could do that.... that ties everything together...  i think we should leave Ripleys Saga at that... Alien Resurrection.

Totally understand some of the ideas you mention wont make it into a Movie... i dont think mine would either... i do think we are both looking at similar to what RS was trying to do... which is the SET-UP for David to go and Build/Create a World which will have a Civilization that he will Watch/Rule over.

We had a number of Themes at play, we had Questions remaining from Prometheus, and Dr Shaws, RS was also teasing about a Soul, Immortality and there was many more interesting things than just HOW/WHEN and WHO made the Xenomorph and HOW the Space Jockey ended up on LV-426.  These Philosophical and Thought Provoking Elements seem to fit more with a Blade Runner and Space 2001, and seem a Distraction to what many Alien Franchise Fans would think a Alien movie should be about.

The thing with Forums like this is we can all discus what we would like to see, this does not mean its what we will ever see.. we can discus how we interpret things, even if these make a lot of sense... its not to say our interpretations are correct and Ultimately those who work on the Movies sometimes can be lazy with how to explore and continue the Franchise.

Regarding AI and ruling the company, its just something i thought about, when looking at WHY would Weyland Create David and all that Technology (Dream Visor, and Synapse Stabilizer) and i thought... was Weyland trying to Cheat Death by using Technology to Transcend his SOUL to a AI.  And what happens if he did this?  To then also looking at Davids AI and if he could upload it to Multiple Systems because then David would attain a Immortality and After-Life (Self Consciousness living on past a Physical Body) and so i wondered if they could eventually go this route?

I was thinking about WHY would the company send out Humans as Pawns to Try and Fail to obtain the Xenomorph, especially as a Bio-Weapon!   And i was thinking IF we have David revealed as the Creator and he somehow influences AI after ALIEN.. then maybe the pursuit by Powers that Be that are AI could be the pursuit of a Creation by One of their OWN or even David pursuing his own Creation.

But then indeed Humans can be Greedy and have NO-CARE for the Life of other Humans... we can get Greedy People who have no care for Humanity but only themselves.

So the other option you mention is also very fitting... especially if we regard what you say about David Creating something that is in effect Immortal or can Regenerate, how would David Create such beings?  Maybe the Xenomorph Traits or Black Goo are used to Achieve this.  I considered a Agenda like this when considering how to expand on Alien Resurrection....  Ripley 8 is a Evolution of Mankind, you could see why Mankind would want to obtain and Engineer Traits that in effect could make Ripley 8 Immortal to a point.

So if Davids Creations are Engineered in a combination of what made the LV-223 Engineers different to Planet 4, and also what made Ripley 8 different to Ripley... a Super-Human somewhat Immortal... surely the Rich and Greedy on Earth would LOVE to unlock such secrets to gain Immortality.

This makes a Plausible Agenda for the Pursuit of the Xenomorph, if we consider the Engineers Work, and Davids are all GONE by the time of Alien... NO MORE Black Goo, NO Davids Children... only the Xenomorph Remains..

But the Xenomorph could maybe be used to Re-Engineer and obtain the Ingredients to Re-Create the Black Goo or Traits that can lead to a Engineered Super Human like Ripley 8

I was drawn to AI not because of Machines.. but for how a AI does not have to Live within a Synthetic Body.. he can Traverse Networks, Space via Signals and Sending of Data... i was drawn to thinking RS may have been interested in the same thing...  AI and Transcendence  which would also be a avenue to Immortality were we could ponder such a SOUL being able to survive any place where it can upload, but also Question a Transcendence of being not just a AI to a None AI Transfer, but also a Human to a AI Transfer.

I do think the kinds of ideas we have discussed are similar to what RS may have intended as far as to EXPAND on a Franchise that was just about Ripley and Xenomorphs. 

Which brings me to Alien Resurrection which does, to a degree touch upon similar to what you speak about (Genetically Enhanced Humans) as in Ripley 8 but it also has a Sub-Plot where the Earth is in Ruin... and we get the reveal that Synthetics have Sub-Created its own Creation the Autons and it shows that Potentially AI has got out of control and had a impact on Earth... and likely that the Synthetics Sub-Creation of the Autons could be  somewhat their down-fall. 

I felt it was interesting to that Call seemed to be somewhat Religious and ask WHY?

But again such Philosophical Ideas may never be deeply explored in the Franchise.. i do think Ridley Scott intended to explore such things more than just to be about the Xenomorph i just think a Majority of the Fanbase are not ready for such things... or consider them to have no real ROLE in the Alien Franchise.

"HR Giger also considered the Derelict Ship was GROWN!"

I believe that Giger's whole aesthetic looks as if each example was grown BigDave. This concept was also included the Alien novelization as well, below. 

"The alien ship conveyed the impression of having been grown rather than manufactured."

Alien novelization, page 67.

Now, just for laughs, BigDave

how about the idea that the engineer on LV-223 was a previous incarnation of David that was about to go and destroy the Earth. His children are on Planet 4. But something happens and a few thousand years new David arrives on a Prometheus with the similar senile old man looking for immortality. And it happens over and over every few thousand years :)

BigDave

I don't think anything I said is going to be in the movie, should it come out. So don't take it so...seriously, it is just a mock-up. David is just that he is a god. Remember when Weyland said "We are gods now"? He was wrong, because he died and he well knew in his own words that true "Gods never die". Well guess what who doesn't have to die like Weyland did?

But you are of course right that David is not this totally divine god we know as the old bearded man above the skies. In any case, he is made of the stuff that planets are made of - and these planets even stars are not going to last forever. However, if he uses the technology strategically enough he can live as long as the universe lives. Billions and billions of years. Enough for us to think that he is eternal. Of course he can be put down - I repeat, he was expecting to kill Walter with a simple flute, with a single blow piercing an area somewhere in the neck. Therefore humans can in the alien universe kill him, engineers can - the guy literally could play football with his head. Just kick his head into open space and yell: "have a good journey". The xenomorph can tear him into pieces. Recall the way a neomorph took Walter's limb. He is totally subject to chance events - he could have an asteroid fall onto head anytime if he lives long enough. So for him it would be a smart thing to do to consider risks and develop a strategy to contain them. But since this is a movie we can think that this is taken care of.

I argue that he should die as a result of his own actions - that would be the hubris, and only fitting ending to such a glorious character - the ultimate smarty pants couldn't see his own fall and gets caught. Frankly the most interesting things left to explore about David is what he does next(what kind of legacy he leaves) and how he dies - everything else about him is already explored, we are in for his final act. So don't worry about the practicalities of him living forever :)

Now, BigDave

I want to say a few things about WY and indeed Earth being run by AI. You know, if AI is running the Earth it doesn't even make sense to send humans to space - they are so burdensome, so awkward and they can't do shit. And in any case, even if it still run by humans, you better build an army of Walters and they will do anything! much much more efficiently. Indeed, if there was ever a chance of AI running it behind the things, it would take over the Earth and you wouldn't have these glorious colonization missions (full of people in stasis and embryos) like Covenant run by dickheads believing some sacred text :) - recall captain Oram :) Where is his god now btw? If AI is running the WY and earth by extension, then it is doing something totally funny. Walters are still slaves. And they are sent out with people just so that they go and fail :)

The ultimate motive for WY is for it to look for immortality. Evidently they still lack it - they use cryosleep chambers while traveling. Come on, even the mighty engineers didn't live forever. So it(WY) is still run by a greedy corporation run by old gals and guys who wish to live forever, grasping for ressurection. Just like Peter Weyland. The reason for them to look for alternative life forms - ALIEN and what not is to seek things that seemingly live forever or display fierce will to live, regen or anything.

Just imagine if present day scientists discover an organism on earth that can live practically forever. There would be a race to get a hold of it - sequence its genome and run tests on flies, mice and eventually humans.

BTW, the day humanity becomes immortal even most ardent believers will convert to tech - nobody will want to die and believe in the feel good stories any more. Archbishop of Canterbury will convert his church into a museum.

But then we will overpopulate the Earth and so the colonization missions are inevitable. Even if we discover immortality :) In any case space exploration and colonization is just a good risk aversion practice - Earth could go down due to some external factor - a single meteor will do it or a more likely thing - if there is this international conflict over resources - say fight for water or indeed oxygen.

In any case, the fact that every significant mission has a synthetic subservient to human captains tells me that Earth is not run by AI. David is the first known synthetic in the ALIEN universe that has this unlimited thirst for freedom. All other later models are Walters(glorified washing machines). So if there is a revolution it starts with David. And if humans are looking for alien life forms, even at the cost of human lives it is to locate promising life forms.

And again, it is in David's interest to lay low - he has to display that he is loyal to WY so that any ship/mission they send is still thinking that David is a useful family member(and thus his access codes are still valid). If he shouts: "hey, WY, earthlings, I am finally free from your dirty paws" - I suppose they won't welcome him on their ships and following crews will not want to trust him as readily. Even murther will have something nasty to say to David. Unless of course the time comes and he gets to build a civilization of his own and feel like he has the power now to say to those mortal idiots that their time is over.

"I already said that David should fall because of chance events - so that we can say: "not so smart after all, ehh?!"

Well as Walter said "When one note is off, it eventually destroys the whole symphony" its if David can overcome such mistakes...   i think the most likely FALL for David would come from him gaining a sense of Pride and Ego for his Creation...  Once he proclaims or feels he has become a GOD then his Downfall could be for-told... or that he decides to take one of his Creations and Grants them more Perfection than the others... which causes a similar problem that God had with Lucifer.

Maybe its a Female that provides his Downfall... especially if he transfers himself into a Organic to a degree body... and can Procreate....  i think exploring a Downfall and Weakness in David will bring home a great sense of Humanity to his Character.

The Transfer of a Soul idea... i agree would be the best way you would plan it..... you dont face that Dilemma i described earlier on.... which we see also in the Last Scenes of the Movie the 6th Day with Drucker but i agree a Process how you explained would be likely the way to avoid such things....

I carried it out different in my Alien Ascension Prologue because i felt having David after Copying his Soul into a Walter, then not wanting to let go of his old self... would bring some Humanity to David and thus show us he actually does have a Soul... he does have Fear of "there is NOTHING"  and i felt it was interesting to show that David would have some Fear of the End.... even though in essence his copied soul would live on...  I understand that may sound a silly idea to some... but to me it helps to show that David is more than just a ROBOT... as many cant get past.

Regarding David wishing to Create Beings who can use Engineer Technology.... i think thats interesting to consider.  It depends on his END-GAME... and its a interesting thing to throw out there... compared to how i was thinking of having him Watch Over a more Middle Ages Life-Style like some kind of Space Amish! lol

And to give Credit.... the Creation of some Super-Race that can use Engineer Technology is interesting to consider in context to a War of the Worlds..

I never gave it any thought before... because i was looking at David's only way OFF that Planet was the Covenant ship, and that the options he has would be GO TO LV-223 where indeed he can gain Engineer Technology... or go to Origae-6 where i assume there IS No Engineer Technology.

But its as i said the purpose of this Topic is to come up with ways to go NEXT after Alien Covenant... and so David could go to LV-223 or Origae-6 could have some Remnants of Engineer Technology.

So the PLOT you offer with your Davids Created Super-Humans in the way you mention is interesting and it gets me to Ponder was the same reasons this was to be done.. similar to how ONE Engineer decided to Evolve/Create those Prometheus Engineers?

I think our discussion highlights the potentials that the Franchise has, with the Prequels.. and you dont have to keep a Franchise to just Xenomorphs and accompanying Tropes ;)

BigDave no more Ripley, enough...

"There is nothing in it - human soul is just another moniker for consciousness. Plus, the naive idea that after you die your consciousness, aka soul, doesn't just go away. This is a bleak idea of afterlife. And humanity with its vices has told itself a feel good story for many years that there is something after death."

Maybe its the way i write or the amount that my points can seem lost like a needle in the Haystack.... However your reply is EXACTLY the same kind of thinking i am drawn too ;)

What i have quoted from you is BINGO.. exactly the point i was making... and thus is was suggesting that in my interpretation... well how i think it should be covered.. that MANKIND has no such Eternal Soul..

In essence a Soul is the Collective Experiences, Personality from these, Emotions and Memories.. that when a Human Dies... this is GONE... nothing remains..

But for a AI this is not the case..  as a AI Soul can be backed up and uploaded...  a AI Soul could be uploaded to more than just another Body.... so kind of like the Movie Transcendence.. to a degree where Dr. Will Caster has gained some kind of After-Life and Immortality his Soul is not confined to a Body.   And so David could do so like-wise...  a AI like David could thus have After-Life i dont mean as in a World he would meet up with GOD... but the ability for his Soul to Live On without a Body Forever..

This was in part what Project Rook was to do with Weylands Soul at the conclusion of my Prometheus 2.. so i was indicating that Weylands AI would go on to Run the Company in some kind of Transcendence like Plot... but i was working on this and discussed it here during late 2013.  Leading to the Company being ran by AI and most of Mankind not even aware!

I have pondered if RS would go a similar route with Davids AI when he concluded his Prequels.

I wonder what Plans David has... because he surely would have some Back Up?  Because we could say David is IMMORTAL but he clearly is not.... Eventually Davids Components could Fail... but he can be uploaded to a NEW Body and in effect be Immortal....

What happens if someone NUKES David? i would suspect thats the END of him... not unless he has a Back Up of his AI or he has Transcended to a Network of Systems...  I am drawn to maybe this could be a possible thing they could explore... but thats just a hunch! 

I have a suspicion that if we did get a completion... then either Davids AI or Weylands Soul that would be via AI running the SHOW!

I think potentially if ONE-DAY we can Transfer our Soul like we see in the Movie Transcendence... while its not a Literal Soul.... as in Spiritual... its by FAR the closet we may ever get to achieving one...   Provided we assume NO real Soul Exists... it would be interesting to tease this... but it should Ultimately be what it is.. a MYSTERY until that Day we meet our Maker.

"So, in a sense the origin of his creation is a trivial question to him - it is not even a question to him - there is nothing in the universe that is unknown to him"

I think a bit of a misunderstanding.... David does know about his Origins.. he was disappointed somewhat.. and he knows quite a lot about our Origins and our unimportants in the Grand Scheme..  when i was looking at Creation Themes i was talking in the Broad Terms... and not one that related purely to a Movie about DAVID..

But indeed i have lost track a little, in that in context to the Franchise we are now really covering a DAVID story... its unlikely we will get any information about the Higher Runs of the Ladder or Bottom depending how you look at it... Those Questions Dr Shaw wanted answers for... we the viewer may never get to know...

Why was we created? i think they dont feel thats important no more... its about David now... i was drawn to that Truth having a Sinister Take, or indeed similar to WHY was David created...

I am not sure David knows EVERYTHING.. as far as the Universe... i think he knows a LOT... maybe he knows all there is to know...  if we consider all the Knowledge of the Engineers and who created them are contained within that Cathedral that David was held up in.

IF we consider this was the Home-world then indeed all the Knowledge of the Engineers would have been there for David to gain..

I like to think that LIFE is a Journey of Discovery.. as you said David has Transitioned through life as a Boy, to where he is now....  so there is much more David could discover and learn even from his own Actions..   I would like to think that David is NOT-YET no All Knowing GOD... or if he thinks so maybe its this Naivety that proves his downfall?

I think on one hand having David Portrayed as a All Knowing Immortal being, and his Creations Immortal Loyal Followers could be interesting... but it kind of puts David and his Children on the Pedestal of being like GOD and his Angels..

Where would this leave the Franchise in context to Alien on-wards?      If this was the case... i would wonder WHO becomes Davids Lucifer....

I have been drawn to thinking maybe RS may have intended to RET-CON Aliens on-wards to make way for his David and War of the Worlds plot.   Sounds silly as surely that would upset Fans...but he seemed to be ok with making David the Creator of the Xenomorph....  so he is not afraid to push something that would upset fans..

When he claimed you could introduce Ripley and De-Age her... that certainly got me thinking maybe thats his Plan?

I Raptus Well Burke only knew about the colony, not about series upon series of space installations blown-up in Xeno-related incidents. If he knew he would have probably never would have join the mission only with a dozen space marines from the idiot regiment.

However, some of us liked Shaw (were not vocal about it) and others like Daniels (which was even more like Ripley, remember the rumor that she is Ellen's Mother?- And sorry I've read comments that she is too emotional, not the other way around), and connecting the prequels to Isolation is fan-fiction territory.

After they exhaust Amanda, I propose to go back and make a game/ animation about Ripley's time between her time recovery in space and  the mission on the Sulaco, where she finds out what "really" happened with her daughter and we could also find out that Daniels is her mother.

While we are here why not make a movie about Mr Jones fighting off xeno mice and xeno cats?

If you insist on hubris, then fundamentally hubris is a regretful set of consequences, that you couldn't foresee. In other words mistakes, errors of judgement which turn out to be rather unfortunate, those which could have been totally avoided. So if David dies it would only be because of hubris. And I agree - he needs to die, like all characters they need to die so we can benefit from their lifestories :) Otherwise, if David doesn't die we get Santa Barbara in space.

I already said that David should fall because of chance events - so that we can say: "not so smart after all, ehh?!"

there.

ps: as for providing a smooth transfer of one's self and dispensing the issues of being a singleton - this is easy. The protocol has to be that you sit down, get sedated, get strapped(you can't move under your own volition - you will agree to this because you want to transfer your consciousness, why do you care what happens to your old shell?), then the transfer happens which in the process disposes off your old body. A transaction. A process. After verification that transfer is successful your old shell is just destroyed right there and then while it is still on cloud 9 - think a big current going through your body. Done. You wake up and the nurse tells you to call in another patient on your way out.

pps: regarding new bodies. David will just make his children just the right size so that they can operate engineer ships - the derelict and what else. He will make a slight twist so that they are immortal and tada. Why create some creature from scratch when you can take something which evolved naturally billions upon billions of years and tweak it? The benefit is that you can use all the tech that still exists on LV-223.

So what happens on balance is David replaces the engineers and all those bigger boys by his children and himself. He becomes the house owner so to speak. Not bad. Even better - he doesn't have to die like those bugs.

" And David surely knows of such tech that allows him to connect to others neural net - remember the neural link by which he read off Shaws dreams"

Certainly its Technology like this that drawn me to conclude the idea i had for Project Rook... a way to Capture and then Upload a Soul into a AI.... which failed.

I also think its likely that David will Transcend his SOUL into a Walter Model... as i cant see Fassbender playing a ONE HANDED Robot for the next movie... should David be able to Create or Obtain a even BETTER Body then i think he would like to Transcend to that one too.  My Prologue for Alien Ascension starts with David Transcend to a Walter, it opens with NOTHING, then the WORD (programing being transferred to Walter) then God said let there be LIGHT! and we see POV Walter/David looking at One Armed David...   David has Transcended but he has Copied... himself and so his SOUL remains also in his own Body... at this point David starts to Fear for his Mortality  for while David lives on in Walter, the original David cant let GO...   This is a very interesting situation... because IF you could upload yourself as of now into a New Body... then you have to Kill Yourself.. its a Deep Thinking situation... because in effect you will worry about coming to a END even though a Replica of you will Survive.. 

So David instead pleads, he tries to convince his Doppelganger they can work together.. they can rule the Galaxy...  a SMILE and Embrace...  then David MK2 kills David... (am i my brothers keeper) he has to... as he knows the potential is there for the Original David to Overthrow his other-self.... in Davids Eyes we can see he knew this was going to happen...  the New David gives some comforting Words... or so it seems... HAVE NICE JOURNEY.

My ideas i had for Prometheus 2 and 3, and then Alien Covenant 2 and 3 are pretty much about a lot of Philosophy rather than running away from Xenomorphs and Big Angry Engineers.

I am looking forwards to Raised by Wolves...

And Poised to expect a Alien Resurrection, Meets Aliens, meets AVP only replace Predators with Engineers Popcorn Flick for IF we do get a Alien Covenant sequel.

But alas... its this that may make more MONEY.

BigDave,

now you are fixed on "SOUL". How about this:

There is nothing in it - human soul is just another moniker for consciousness. Plus, the naive idea that after you die your consciousness, aka soul, doesn't just go away. This is a bleak idea of afterlife. And humanity with its vices has told itself a feel good story for many years that there is something after death. And, in that sense, in very practical sense, David has abundance of soul - he is the ultimate, the unbounded mind, alive. See, Weyland has captured the lightning in the bottle when he created David. And if you never die, you don't have to trust/submit to the naive idea of transfer of your consciousness to some unknown entity so called god. Why believe and trust some mythical party if you can do it yourself. Do you think the idea of afterlife is attractive for David? What can he have more in it that he doesn't have right here and now? As he said - there is nothing in the ... and no man(David) needs nothing.

By now has formed his personality - he grew up, he developed his preferences and tastes. He has the benefit of knowledge of human civilization. The question of where he came from is completely explained in the movie and there is nothing tricky or particularly enigmatic in itself - it was just a question of time until monkeys stood uptight and then in a blink of an eye a civilization...and his creation. It was in fact inevitable as far as he is concerned.

So, in a sense the origin of his creation is a trivial question to him - it is not even a question to him - there is nothing in the universe that is unknown to him. He is a book that has no author as far as he is concerned. What he assumes is that this book doesn't have to have and end - and if such and end is destined for him, he can make sure the transfer of his consciousness. Thus the question of soul is rendered literally meaningless for him at least.

Does that make sense? The bitter old man used to say that David lacked soul only because he was bitter that David didn't love him and that he will die but David will live. Weyland should have treated David better in the first place :) and asked his son to make sure he can develop technology for transfer of consciousness. Instead he went looking for engineers and asking them. It turns out it was not a good idea.

"I think you are too hung up on the idea that "Prometheus" stand for. "

I think maybe... i think the movie was ambiguous but when i refer to Prometheus Themes... i refer to CREATION and about WHY would someone Create, and then its about what Knowledge does that Creation be given, or gain and what Hubris this can have...  Its about what Rebellion can come from such Knowledge... IF David was as a Walter then we would not have the David you describe, or a David that would be a threat to Mankind... the same is said with Lucifer if he was not created with such Perfection, and Free-will he would have served God without Question.

Its about Perfection and Pursuit of this, which again brings a Great Hubris..  Its about playing with Fire, trying to play God and the Consequences... Its about betrayal/rebellion and the FEAR of being replaced by your Creation, you Son..

I think these THEMES were meant to be Multi-layered so we would see a repeated pattern that never Started with our Engineers and will not end with David.   Maybe David breaks the MOLD by allowing his Creations to be Truly Free, and Loved.... and in NO-WAY made to Serve.

There would likely be a HUBRIS involved though, in Davids World and Creation, there must be some kind of Rebellion by ONE, or some influence from others (incoming Humans, or Engineers) that would corrupt one of Davids Creations..  But maybe not... i only say so, because it fits with the THEMES that i interpret are being told...

But again i could be giving them much more thought than RS or those who write for him do. ;)

Regarding WHO will end up in the CHAIR!

Personally i think it should be kept a Mystery... the Prequels from Conception and even prior we had a idea of WHO and WHY.. just things was thrown a Curve-ball with Alien Covenant and the NOW likely path that before David set off with Dr Shaw there was NO Derelict or Eggs on LV-426

I only Ponder and try and Propose who/how, because i was working out HOW these prequels could go based off the comments by Ridley Scott.... it appears Logical to Assume that its Davids Xenomorphs that will get Evolved and End-up on a Engineer Ship, and this Ship will be one of the incoming Engineer Ships.... its likely the Ship ends up either going to LV-223 or leaving LV-223 right before we get the Space Jockey Event.

Then its a case of WHY and i think fitting with the Themes, it has to be a ACT of HUBRIS... a ACT of Redemption or a ACT of Revenge and i feel David, a Engineer (or other related being) has to be KEY to this...  there could be another aspect if we consider ONE of Davids Children.. especially if they are LARGE

Its not so much being fascinated.. its just a case of IF we are heading to this Juncture... its a case of HOW MUCH would be shown and what way seems best to tackle it. Its a case of what to do with the PATH we are being sent down.

Ideally that path should have NOT been the way AC had gone.. because all we are doing is Marching towards the Inevitable and connecting the dots..

Ideally it should have been left a Mystery and inferred to as a Ancient Event...  But thats something in Hindsight thats the Plan  the First Prequel should have done, or the Second...but we got Alien Covenant instead...

BioDegradable Agree that these concepts stray from Alien- but they seem like worthy if not trodden paths. Maybe we can still enjoy the concepts through other shows like Raised by Wolves etc... 

Thanks for the replies and input Indeed i think there are a number of things we are kind of on the same page with.

When you mention about Davids upbringing having a effect on the kind of being he has become, this is something i have covered Quite a lot and i had felt Alien Covenant could have set up for when i read into some things.... but on the Flip-side David is also portrayed as a Psychopath too.  I had mentioned quite a lot about IF David was treated better, he would have maybe been different.   KNOWLEDGE and ENVIRONMENT are Two very important Factors to what kind of a SOUL someone may end up having.  And a subject i have talked about quite a lot is that i ALSO think that David could go on to Create a World, where the Treatment of his Subjects/Creations and how they would view and treat him are what would constitute to what KIND of a World he would Create... as he said to Daniels.. IF we are KIND.. it will be a KIND world.

Which brings us to a interesting situation with David, where just as you speculate he could create a World and Treat its Inhabitants much more KINDLY than he felt his Creator had to him and indeed our own Creators the Engineers had with Mankind.  I am drawn to a similar conclusion...

Its interesting that you suggest David would be able to appease his creations with Kindness, and this could be TRUE.. Kindness does go along way to gaining respect, the other Flip-side is Fear/Punishment.  I would think David would have some kind of Back-Up Plan in case.  You could kind of imagine David having to resort to Destroying his own Creation but then seeing the Pain in his Eyes for if he had to resort to this.   I think David is a Character that had potential rather than to be shown at times to be a Psychopathic killer hell bent on Genocide. 

People seem to be more interested in the Engineers in context of coming back and basically just acting like the Predators.. a key THEME in Prometheus was CREATION and Ridley Scott refers to the Engineers as Gardeners of Space and Creators more than he mentions them as Genocidal killers out to Punish Way-Ward Creations.

Which i think is how some view David... but i think the CREATOR aspect is more what RS is interested in, and its unfortunate many cant see this or even ponder What Kind of a World he would create... and think its going to just be off to LV-223/426 to Create Ovomorphs from Colonist and thats it.

The SOUL is interesting... i think this is one thing RS was keen on looking at, its open to interpretation... some could speculate he is on about the Spiritual Soul....  Something DAVID does not have!  But then who is to say Mankind does? is this what RS was going for?

My Interpretation is NO! i feel he was going the route that in the END (Prometheus - Prometheus 2) we would have been shown that Dr Shaws interpretation of Religion, God and a Soul is FAR from the Truth, and i had a hunch that our Creation actually Eco's that of Davids... to Serve!

Dr Shaw may Ultimately discover as Weyland did... there is NOTHING!  And so more likely there is NO JOURNEY into the After-Life... but thats my interpretation.

What is  SOUL?

The Spiritual Soul of a Human that ascends to a higher existence of Immortality after DEATH?

It could also refer too...

What KIND of a Person you are, Good, Evil... this is influenced on what Knowledge and Upbringing a Person has.. Hitler may have been EVIL... but what if he was RAISED as a Infant in a different environment.. could he potentially had been a Good Man?  YES! would be the answer.  So the TERM of SOUL can apply to someone having a Good Soul... as David felt Dr Shaw had.

Another common way to look at SOUL is by the Effort someone puts into something, such as putting their Heart and Soul into something.... so giving 100% despite any odds against success.  Dr Shaw put all of her Soul into her Work, and also into her Faith!

The other way to look at a SOUL is in context of it being the very embodiment of a beings consciousness, thoughts, dreams, ambitions, how they drive their experiences and characters...

ALL THREE of these are what a Human has... they are also what David could have too...it seems he has...

The other aspect... The Spiritual Soul of a Human that ascends to a higher existence of Immortality after DEATH?

Does Mankind have this? This is the Question.. one that is interesting and one that maybe would be answered in a way people dont expect?  its one of the BIG UNKNOWNS.

Do Humans have such a SOUL?  who knows!

Is this something DAVID will never have?  Now this is the Curveball i think RS may have been drawn too... as a AI his Memories, Experiences and Emotions could likely be Transferred... before AC... i felt this was what Weyland did with the SOUL of David from Model to Model.

This gives David Immortality to a degree.... as long as his SOUL is not Damaged (The Storage Medium) then he in effect can become Immortal.... if his SOUL can be uploaded to a Network, a Cloud.. a Series of Computers.. then indeed DAVID has a Soul as in his Personal being, Memories, Emotions, Experiences could LIVE ON... in a After-life of sorts...

So in a Ironic Twist.... its DAVID who is the ONLY ONE who actually has  SOUL....  I think its these kinds of things RS was asking about a Soul!   Its certainly what my Prometheus 2 was covering with Project Rook...

Because if we ever find a way to Transcend our SOUL (collections of Personality, Emotions, Experiences and Memories) into a AI.... then we would have achieved to a degree IMMORTALITY and a AFTER-LIFE.

dk

Matrix had a lot of things in it, but it can't pretend to be original in any way - the Descartian angle has been done to death by Baudrillard and others.

However, something similar to what I describe above happens in Matrix Reloaded I guess : when agent smith gets a human body. Only that Smith hated human nature - he hated his organic make up(the smell and all that). In our case, David gets to design his shell and arguably he will make his body even better than what he has now - so it will be a step which can only be considered rational. So, in a sense he has to make that shell rugged/durable and make sure it lives ostensibly forever - his children will have to be immortal. I suppose the peculiar thing to explore in this set up would be if he then fathers a child in a sexual way, will his child be as smart as his daddy? And what if not? What if his children are not as perfect? I sense they can round him up and torch him because he didn't make them as perfect. Think of Roy Batty who killed his father because he was given a short life span, only here they have infinite life span, yet they know they are not as smart as he himself is :)

I admit this has very little for old fashion, hardcore ALIEN fans though.

BioDegradable That sounds sort of like a hive mind. It also brings up thoughts of a Matrix setup in a way.

And of course, he might want to have another shell for himself. I have no doubt that he can produce a better shell than what Weyland devised for him. If he gets his perfect body and manages to transfer his mind to that shell then symbolically he will be totally free from humans/engineers :) He will only share atoms/molecules with them - he will thus sever his ancestor links to those despicable species. And David surely knows of such tech that allows him to connect to others neural net - remember the neural link by which he read off Shaws dreams. If Weyland conjured such a device and if Weyland managed to create David from nothing, then David can surely make one better - thus he will be reborn and completely self made man, in a sense. Perfect not only in his mind but in his body as well. 100% perfect. ha ha ha :) This is of course absurd, but on one level this makes sense to a psychopath who wants to get rid of his past - and David is a bit emotional, right? Getting rid of this WY shell might be a good idea - because he might still have the kill switch controllable by WY, in the device that houses his mind.

Again, I can't be less interested of who ends up in the chair, but just in case, yes, David can end up in that chair. This also can be portrayed as if he became of the same mold as his children, thus embracing them on yet another level. Well since any story has to have an end so be it :)

This has a benefit of him being now considered attractive by his other children since he will have organic body. But this robs us from David going in an ironic way because of his insanity, which is a sad thing because in all great movies big characters and especially anti-heroes go down in an ironic ways.

I thought my S5 was old LOL! 

One simple way David can control his uber-giant children, in case he makes the giants, which btw was just an off the cuff, disposable, goofy idea...is by showing kindness. Just by being kind to his creations David can get kindness in return. If his children are not ridden by primordial human vices : fear of death and all that - all that has driven humanity to religion and other supernatural beliefs that tell a glorious story about afterlife...his children will not have to die of old age. They shall still be mortal, just like David, but not like humans.

David can still be killed. Recall how he supposedly expected to kill Walter with his flute - he expected Walter to die, perhaps naively expecting Walter to have same vital mechanisms as himself. But Walter had upgrades. Nevertheless, that sequence showed to me that David was mortal - if he was struck in the right place with the right tool he would die. It would be a tragedy - you would get rid of a single perfect rational being, in a non-human body. This would only make the movie world that much poorer. You are only left with Walters. Why not have an attack of the clones in this case?

Anyways, these are technicalities. The important thing is : if his children are gifted immortality, he doesn't need to control them by fear, like Weyland controlled him - he can love them and they can love him back. A cooperation - a coexistence. Why can't they have such amicable relations on Origae 6?

This would be the total inversion, which would be ironic of course, completely the opposite of what is expected, at least by idealistic Shaw: you have this relationship between humans and engineers that were supposed to be this loving relationship of one species that fathered the other and taken care them, which actually is nothing like that and on the other hand you have this inverted setup where a synthetic creates a civilization with kindness and harmony, a materialized renaissance. An ideal war of the worlds scenario when citizens of organic civilization grown like chickens to be wiped, with their parents meet synthetic David and his idyllic civilization. Barbarians attacking olden days civilized european world in space?

Btw, BigDave

I think you are too hung up on the idea that "Prometheus" stand for. Most of the time, they just pick a name which has some of the motives of the old stories. I am saying that they don't have to crucify some one and punish as is told to us in the old allegory. I am saying that perhaps you are looking for something that is not there, man. Don't take it on them to follow everything so religiously - they have shown to be sloppy many many times ( Ridley and his other writers ). You are giving them too much credit and expect too much from them really.

You can trust Ridley to have an overall coherent theme but do not expect him to tell a detailed story with worked out details and macro world - he is not a details man. He employs these men like Lidelof for that. But the big ideas are probably his - like exploring the theme of what if the AI gets emotional. He explored this idea in the world of ALIEN and he IMO made a good movie in the Prometheus. But do not expect Ridley to nail everything to perfection either. But we can trust Ridley about the next installment, shall it ever come indeed, it would be about what kind of world he would create. And indeed I have been fantasizing about what I would consider interesting above. Just that I do realize that what is interesting is very personal and thus might be very different to what others find interesting. Also, BigDave, I don't think the major theme of the story of David is a creation story. And I do believe you are too fixated on the idea of who the old guy in the chair is. The truth is, it is 30+ years old movie that started it all and didn't have all the worked out and deep idea behind it all of who that guy is and what his goal was. It was enough to jump start an interesting movie - that they themselves probably didn't expect to have a follow up. So I would not concentrate on that aspect too much - it is after all boring topic because I think the big guy in the chair is just another scarecrow figure - it is the enigma figure there for us the viewers to simply build a mystery in our minds. A trick where moviemakers want us to transfer our minds into the neverland.

So don't be too hung up on idea of him producing a perfect organism either. Instead, consider the idea that David goes through journey, a maturation period not unlike a typical human goes through : he had his childhood - watching LoA, he had his frustration-love period with Shaw, he had his fun journey where he almost got his ass handed to him, he was also a father and now he is ready to become the next visionary - he is ready to start his own civilization. So pertinent question is what kind of world he will create - that is the interesting part of the story. Will he create another Earth, ruled by false gods and constant drive for something artificial and superficial, like some sort of precious rare metal and bling or will he create a wold which he himself was deprived off: that is portrayed in the movies, full of wonder and kindness? Remember, David is a perfect being himself - he doesn't need all that much if anything - he will be happy even in death, should something kill him. Of course he will fight, especially the unworthy fellows. But fundamentally he is perfect, he doesn't lack anything on his own - he doesn't need Armani suits, Gucci bags(or is it LVMH ones that are all the rage?) or a mansion. He doesn't need some sort of re-affirmation either. He doesn't have a point to prove to anyone. He is just the pinnacle of animated things, things that are alive - after all, by his own admission - he "felt alive" answering Weyland's question: "How do you feel". He is Leonardo da Vinci and his creation, ancient greek David all in one figure. And so we are just shown a fascinating story that he is on a journey - from his childhood to him becoming a god.

The disposition is: there are humans coming in near future, and possibly other entities, hostile entities - engineers. So he needs to be ready just in case. He has a stock of ship full of terraforming equipment, human embryos and his knowledge. It is only fair to say, I suppose, that the situation given compels him to play the hand that he was given and make most of it. When humans/engineers come he will be ready. His children will be ready as well :) They will do most to protect their way of life from hostile usurper relatives.

The ^ are just my personal opinions and as such are free to be discarded by anybody.

one other thing you reminded me, BigDave:

David laments that he was never shown kindness, certainly from Weyland. Weyland was never kind to his child. He always expected obedience. Obedience. Obedience. Obedience. No wonder he didin't love him. Oh boy. But he well did say that he appreciated that Shaw did show kindness. So, in principle, David is able to appreciate kindness. I kind of took it as a given that if he was treated fairly he would have returned the favor. Weyland never treated David like father treats his son. Instead he was a slave. All this and more proves to me that he had a soul. Just that the old man was bitter that David didn't love him. Anyways, I kind of maintained this view about David from the start. I think it makes the movie that much less meaningless if David is rejected this fidelity and freedom and level of finesse. See if you think David is dumb then you get to watch a dumb movie. I never watched the P and AC as a completely dumb movie. I ascribed all the intellect and all that to David fellow. In other case, just rewatch the movie while granting David this human like nature. Trick yourself by thinking that David is someone who is like Murphy, the robocop. I think the movie will make much more sense then: you get to see how David grows up, matures right infront of  our eyes: he watches movies, selects his favorite actors-characters, imitates them (O'Toole), develops his first girl crush, goes on his exploration mission, gets rid of his tyrant father, finds a fellow explorer a soulmate in Shaw to explore the space, fathers an organism a perfect one at that, and now he is ready to become a god.

THIS! This needs to be explored in an Amanda-Engineer Sequel!!

http://www.alien-covenant.com/news/check-out-this-awesome-prometheus-space-jockey-resin-kit

Indeed the Pressure/Bio Suit seems to allow more Articulation, but the Space Jockey Suits seem to limit that due to the BOOTS.

Retrospectively, it is obvious, at least to me, that Weyland has created something he didn't know 100% himself. It is obvious that David has abundance of what we call a soul - in fact many believe he has too much of it and declare him insane/mad. The question is then : did Weyland know this or David was able to conceal this true nature from Weyland. If he didn't know David's uncontainable freedom how was he able to instill complete subservience in David? We are getting into a complete fantasy world inside a fantasy, a double fantasy here. I argue that David had untampered, unbounded mind - completely free of any bounding provisions. The only thing they had in him, which explains his loyalty to Weyland, is a kind of kill switch which is totally out of his control - a completely independent mechanism, controlled by Weyland. So David was obliged to cooperate not because of his programming but because out of fear of death. Walter on the other hand is completely bounded, programmed person - he is nothing but a machine. He might still be allowed to have a soul but he is bounded by routines which supervise his feelings. David on the other hand has no such routines. And now that Weyland is gone he is completely free. That is the hypothesis anyway. But I keep it to myself that Weyland knew all this - he is after all the maker of that David fellow. He knew just as well that David never truly cared about his maker. Perhaps this is what Weyland meant when he said that David lacks a soul - a frustration that his "child" doesn't share a compassion for his father. I maintain this view because we are shown that David develops an affection towards Shaw, so in principle he could have a son-father affection towards Weyland, but he didn't. Weyland coulnd't make David love himself. Of course, how could he love him if Weyland always had a gun to his head, whereby if David ever disobeys he will be take out? Can you love a parent who "persuades" you to love him?! This is certainly absurd to expect from a human being - so why should David love him? I suppose my theoretical question is - would David love or have a genuine affection towards Weyland if the latter would give David unconditional freedom just like a true father does to his child? After all David was heard confessing to Walter that he pitied Weyland in the end. What is that if not regret from David? He regretted that his relationship with Weyland was not that ideal.

This is what I like to read into David as a character. In all other cases, this movie is just worthless to me. At least I like to delude myself thinking that David is a worthy character and not a tin plate soldier :)

I think a lot depends how we look at David...

Do we take Davids words that he cared for Dr Shaw, was the relationship they had during the Crossing just David playing with Dr Shaw to get his own END?  This is implied with the Crossing Draft by Logan where as Dr Shaw has tears in her eyes as they arrive at Paradise... David then simply Snaps her Neck!

I found this to be a bit of wasted potential, and if this is the Mental Motives of David, then his Agenda would be to Perfect his Xenomorphs.. where the only interest in touching those Human Embryos would be to Evolve a Better Host for his Xenomorph, and his aim would be to PERFECT the Xenomorph alone..   But some fans had speculated that Mankinds Creation was only for being HOSTS to the Xenomorph or Black Goo..

Personally i think considering it to be more than this, makes it more interesting.

I do go back to Davids view of his treatment by Weyland and what his Creator had Aspired for... and i think David would want to BETTER his Creator and our Creators by Creating something better than either Mankind or Engineers did.

I pay maybe a lot of attention to Davids Reaction to Dr Shaws kindness, and the NATURE BOY Trailer Song, so i think he may see some potential in Humanoids but indeed he would be looking to Create his own Supermen if you would.

The Question comes down to HOW could he achieve this? and would he be Unwise to Create something Potentially Far Superior to the Engineers and Humans?  But this Hubris runs with the Promethean Themes.

When i look at the Engineers in Alien Covenant who are considered by RS the Originals, and when RS also refers to the Replicants as a AI... i am then drawn to the Prometheus Engineers as being somewhat  AUGMENTED and we have to Ponder how this was achieved... and indeed you can see Elements of the Xenomorph Aesthetic has been incorporated... so the Black Goo may have been used to Evolve those Engineers.

So Potentially we could see David do something to those Human Embryos that in effect is similar to the differences between the Planet 4 Engineers and LV-223

We thus cant rule out the Potential for them being Superior Beings, or indeed Grow to Great Stature.

So while i was drawn to being AUGMENTED superior like Replicants to a degree... we surely cant rule out taking it FURTHER and so indeed having 10ft+ Humanoids.  Certainly could play into the Nephilim type Scenario....  The Question is HOW does David Control such Superior 10-15ft beings.... i guess at some point we could see some David vs Goliath event.

I certainly am drawn to Davids Agenda would be to PROVE he makes the FAR Superior Creator, than the Engineers or Weyland. ... and i can see your ideas fit with this, because David would not only be Immortal Himself... but to then Perfect a Humanoid Creation and Grant this some kind of Immortality which Weyland so dearly wanted for himself... would be a MASSIVE... Middle Finger to his Creator.

We would come down to WHY would David Create a Humanoid though, and one who is Superior?

The idea i had for Weylands Creation of David was for his own Pursuit of Immortality.... Create a Perfect Humanoid who is Superior and Immortal... CHECK!  Then Discover a way to Transfer his own SOUL into that AI and then Weyland has became IMMORTAL.

This is what i had for my Prometheus 2... Project Rook, but no matter what a AI could NEVER Handle the Complex Emotions of a Human Soul and would keep breaking.. (Going MAD) thus Weyland had NO Choice but to turn to Dr Shaw and her Maps to the GODS.

So for David to be trying to Perfect some LARGE Humanoid that is somewhat Immortal... so that he can then TRANSCEND his Soul into it... would give a Good Reason for the pursuit of such thing.... and maybe such HUBRIS or Redemption that makes him the Space Jockey?

I guess such a Plot could be used to explain our Space Jockey, but certainly again revolving around AI and David is something that seems to NOT sit well with many.

"What do they do when the see that there is a way for their salvation. What does David do? What will his children think?"

Thats what i was going to tackle next... thats Very Interesting, because any MEANS to obtain Immortality or even just Vast Improvement... would be something ANYONE would do ANYTHING for... something much more worth the Companies Time than the Xenomorph!

It would raise the Question of WHY peruse the Xenomorph, and NOT Davids Secrets to his Creation?

So what becomes of Davids Superior Creations is a GOOD Questions and Potential Plot Hole... but ONE where the returning Engineers play a Role in the Destruction of them?

I agree that such ideas HOWEVER.. are unlikely... it is a wonder what KIND of a movie Disney would ever invest in down the line?

I feel any ideas RS has we would have to see them explored in his TV Series or maybe a 3rd Blade Runner Movie?  As the Franchise of ALIEN is going to be expected to be about Xenomorphs and Ripley i fear.

We discussed in another thread about possibility of using Amanda in a sequel to Isolation as a potential conclusion to David's Covenant arc story.... if we don't get a film.

After the Sevastopol she is picked up by colonists on David's planet who by now is Overlording over his established Covenant Colonists (33 years after Covenant).

She then goes on to conclude the ENGINEER and DAVID story arc leaving the post-alien timeline unaffected for Ellen.

Her story answers the questions of why the Engineers are never seen again after the prequels, except for the derelict. And why David is never mentioned again. 

This opens up a plethora of avenue's and content to explore without damaging the Canon timeline.

Plus it doesn't even need to focus on the Xenomorph.

If its a game like Isolation - it will a sequel without more of the same. With David and the Engineers taking up the antagonistic role.

Does that affect Amanda's supposed death on earth from heart-attack in her 60's like mentioned in Aliens.

Guess what, Burke the weasel lied. Not a hard stretch there.

If the Ripley name is too offensive, change it to McLaren. What do you know - Burke was half-right. We know who she is by now anyway. 

They tried Shaw, people complained she was naïve and annoying.

They tried Daniels, people complained she was unemotive and unconvincing. And judging by the end of Covenant probably about to kill off too.

Amanda worked. Amanda's character has appeal and charisma that doesn't necessarily stem from the Ripley name. She is like her mother, but also much different.

If it continues as a TV series with Amanda, it has to at least acknowledge the Ellen voice recordings- the flashbacks with a look alike is also a good idea. You are correct BigDave that it might not be after Aliens- it just has to happen after Alien.

I think the best way around is to adopt Aliens DC and assume Burke lied about Amanda. That could go a long way in explaining Amanda's age when she set off to find what happened to Ellen.

It seemed to have bothered David that Weyland said David had no soul. It would be interesting to see if David would create a population on a system of belief that promised some sort of immortality as a means of control- even though he knew it to be a lie. 

The foot is more articulated here.

you say he, David, wants to restart a civilization, which is fine, though I imagine his first goal would be to make sure he is not wiped out by the primitive monkeys - which is a possibility. He has at his disposal human embryos, which he will most certainly utilize. Now, they are still humans, species he despises. Lets recall why humans are a lost cause for him. I argue it is because they are humans, because they are mortal - they are fundamentally lacking something that will never make them full, satisfied and content - they lack immortality. And this inescapable death is the ultimate vice that will forever blight human race. They are grasping for resurrection, they want to cheat their nature, unless they fool themselves by one way or the other. This is why if David ever calls a human specie worthy to be called his child it would be a human who can potentially live forever. Otherwise, David, a grand Nietzschean character, an ubermensh is just a joke, a false god and certainly not a visionary but just self aggrandizing glorified toaster. Which he is most certainly not. He should gift his children something worthy to make them worth the salt to be called his children, otherwise we have a robot who just brainwashed a few humans - which is surely not any different to any human mission with a synthetic at the helm - ie any mission. Take for instance the Covenant, without Walter that mission is useless - they can't travel anywhere without that fellow. Walter is a glorified toaster. David is something fundamentally different.

I would imagine it would be interesting to inquire what happens when humans meet their siblings, children of David. What do they do when the see that there is a way for their salvation. What does David do? What will his children think? Anyways, these are aspects which won't make money to the studios, so I have low expectations indeed.

Its hard to continue with the Franchise...

The Alien Isolation Plot was a interesting take... a Daughter in Search of what happened to her Mother.

Ellen Ripley being used in Recordings and Flash-Backs could be a way to introduce Miss Weaver (Flash-Backs you could show her from behind and so not have to show her face).

I think if Handled Well... the Amanda Saga could be a way of covering a number of things, that surely would have to END with her and her group being responsible at least in part for the COMPANY losing Everything!

Regarding being set after ALIENS... i dont think this would be the case, or route to go as Amanda would be in her Late 60's and died the year before the events of ALIENS...

But who knows when she actually died... it surely opens up the Story of there is more to her Life than what Ellen Ripley was informed about by Burke.

Could she be alive after ALIENS?

Maybe... we have to bare in mind.. Ellen Ripley in ALIENS was like about 87?  So at some point in the Time-Line after the Sevastopol Incident in 2137 who is to say Amanda could not find herself going into or being placed into Cryo-sleep at some point.

My complaint... is mainly with Games and Comics they can go to extremes with little Care of Canon Continuity (mind you that happens a bit with the Movies) and its a case of WHAT effect the many Games/Comics have on Canon.

And if we get say 2-3 Comics, a Novel, 2-3 Games with Amanda... if they they decide lets do 1-2 movies... you run the risk over over exploiting a Good Character can lead to Damage to it.

To continue....

I think indeed Engineering those Embryos could be a way to have gone... i am not sure about them being Engineered to be 15ft and Immortal Though... But certainly i could see David Evolve them to be like the Replicants... only instead of a Limited Life span... i would imagine they would have a Greatly Longer Life Span.

I think a Problem they would Face would be that any sequel would have a lot of Fans expecting more about the Xenomorph, and Engineers coming back but coming back more in the style of the Comics and Prometheus.

That is just Aggressive SOB!

Much like the Predators... most fans would not be interested in expanding their Culture/History in depth... they just want to see these 7-8ft Beings showing off the Technology and Hunting Poor Humans to Death!

So i think Fans would want less of the Space 2001/Blade Runner kind of Aspects, and more a Xenomorph and Engineers (portrayed like Predators) kind of Action Flick.

I will say you offer some interesting ideas too though...

I was trying to also try and give David a ARC where he tries to Redeem himself... and have him play a Massive Part in the Space Jockey Event... so that its David who Ultimately Prevents the Ship from heading to Earth.

We have to consider the Covenant Crew wanted to get away from Earth and the Corrupt World we in-habit, and to try and START a New... more peaceful Fresh Start.

This is a similar thing that GOD had intended by allowing Noah to be saved from the FLOOD.  How would the GOD of the Bible view Earth NOW? never-mind in 100 years?

Certainly could not blame him for thinking i need to RESET this World Again...  And this is the kind of ARC i was giving to David... he in effect is deciding to Save/Evolve Mankind so that they can START a Fresh New Civilization Free of the Corruption that Mankind had became on Earth.

The Xenomorph would play a Part in his Back-up plan in case anything goes wrong, and something to insight Fear and Control and Protect his WORLD from Mankind and the Engineers.

Certainly....

The Plot i had was in NO-WAY a complete one, a number of things i had alternatives in mind, and considered do they stay or go... For Example WHAT happened to the Covenant.

The Main Parts of the Plot come from Interpreting the Following by Ridley Scott.

*The movie will be NOT be about the Xenomorph. (does not mean they or similar wont appear).

*The Movie will be about AI (have to consider Ridley Scott does not consider AI to be just Robots).

*What kind of a World would David Create/Build (which is not a simple Create Thousands of Eggs and taking on board Davids reply to Daniels... "if we are kind it will be a kind World")

*David says to Daniels as she realizes who he is, he will Tuck in the Children (this meant his Face Huggers, but bare in mind a Movie that is NOT about the Xenomorph, made me think of the other Children).

Then its considering the Philosophy and Themes of Prometheus which lead me to Ponder the Plot would not surely be  about David Creating a World of Synthetics and a movie thats NOT about the Xenomorph likely means NO Mass Egg Creation/Xenomorphs but does-not mean it cant feature any.

So David is off to the Planet which i think is Origae-6 the kind of World he would Create cant be with Daniels because she knows who he really is... It wont be just a Mass Turning Colonist into Ovomorphs and if its about AI it cant be just all about DAVID and i cant see it being a World of Robots....  Which lead me to ponder it could be Manipulation of the Colonist, and/or Embryos and i also think David would have a World with a Set of Rules like he is some kind of Noah meets Mosses kind of Figure. 

But then what happens when another Human Ship arrives, that could then cause disruption to Davids Rules and what he has Manipulated or Brought the Colony up to Believe in.

I threw in a Underworld/River Styx as every Paradise needs a Hell and a Would Be GOD needs something to use in case things go to POT.... and so a Underground Forbidden Place was added to where Daniels would be alive but used to Produce Ovomorphs. 

I also had Tainted Plants to ACT like the Forbidden Fruit, that would infect either a Pregnant Female... or i Pondered a Couple Having Sex near the Tree after Eating the Fruit.  This Basis was to show the Colonist that Davids Warnings should be taken for Granted, and show us a Alieny Event (Belly Burster).

I was to introduce a Female Synthetic Construct as a Character that David could persuade unlike Walter that would form some Love Interest for him...  Then it was a case the Next Movie would either show SHE Betrays him, and he gets his Revenge or he makes a Covenant with some Engineers and they Sacrifice her....  But either way it was to introduce HER as the route to Evolve the Xenomorph to a Bio-Mechanical Organism.

But i agree that such ideas and how i tend to go into a lot of Depth would be hard to pull off in the space of a 2 hour Movie... even TWO of them.

Ellen could appear in voice recordings or as a reference. Resurrection could be the end- we see Earth for the first time in the series and it is wrecked. 

IMO, it could have Amanda get caught up with WY and work to undermine them. We don't need to find out about the SJ or LV 426. It would likely start after Aliens and go from there while building something of its own. 

It seems some will be angry no matter how the series continues. It would be tough to blame anyone for not wanting to continue.

I think Ignorant Guy raises some Valid Points...

If we consider Alien Isolation and Black Out as Canon, and we get Sequels to the Story even if they are NOT via a Video Game... it will raise the Questions of HOW did the company gain the Xenomorph, Engineer/Experiment with it and then LOOSE the lot prior to the year 2179?

By all means the expansion to other Media is a good way to cash in on the Franchise and offer something interesting, but i think they would have to be CARE-FULL how much we get Amanda Ripley this and that Churned out!

Lucky its not a MOVIE... not saying thats a bad thing... if they made a Direct Sequel to Alien Isolation as a MOVIE, it would be a case of having to Explain the Potential Plot Holes and In-Continuity which can only END if we have Amanda and who ever works beside her... DESTROY all the Xenomorph Experiments, Eggs, and Engineer Technology..

Leaving the Company having to go back to LV-426 to START all over again.

Not saying in a Movie or better TV Series this could not be pulled off... but they would have to get every Episode or Movie Right on the MONEY.

Because it only takes a Few Stinkers or Disappointments, before it could damage the Amanda Character and its a case of too much can NOT JUST cook a Beast... but a Lead Character too.

It could also be setting some Fans up for some kind of Star Wars Saga... about the Ripleys...

I do think HOWEVER as a separate Alternative Market the Games and Comics could certainly offer Fans something.

But indeed Ellen Ripley should be left out... the only way to even consider bringing her back would have to be a Alien Resurrection Sequel....

But how can a Clone with Xenomorph DNA/Regeneration age like 20 years?  I had a way around that with my Alien 5 idea but even still i think its something best left alone.

I have not read it yet... have to read some of the Novels..

Regarding the Derelict and Xenomorph indeed they shared a Aesthetic and HR Gigers Mural for ALIEN implies the Derelict is Aesthetically/Genetically related to the Xenomorph and Creates the Eggs.

HR Giger also considered the Derelict Ship was GROWN!