Comments (Page 289)
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This is my Archie, taken from me at the grand old age of 19. He was a total sweetheart & my movie buddy.
The reason he's here is because he watched ALIEN with me hundreds of times!
This is the best Isolation pose sans stand- and it looks FABULOUS!!!
To that pic- it may have been unintentional, but I like seeing Xenos standing on top of Star Wars!
Maybe the beast would be far more respected/hated/loved now. What does that mean?
I doubt anyone would have picked up the franchise if Cameron didn't first. Remember that in the 80s, at least in the US, action movies- especially military based ones, were huge. Aliens fit the bill and brought back a tense sci fi experience too.
I still want to see Cameron's Deep Sea Challenge movie.
Yes, Cameron can put off a lot of people but I like his cinematic results.
Dk,
When I watch a sequel, or #2, #3, #4 or whatever, I play close attention to what I feel after watching it.
When I watch "Aliens", I miss "Alien" and I dream of "Alien 3".
"Aliens" in my opinion lacks something very, very basic I can't explain - and I blame Cameron for it. He has always been a Disney person and now he's home with his "Avatar" sequels and whatever he's up to.
Can you imagine a Cameron's hypothetical version/sequel of "Thelma and Louise", "Gladiator", "Blade Runner"?
Can you imagine what the "Alien" universe would be like if there hadn't been a Cameron's "Aliens"?
For the better or worse, I can - and I picture it as a far better universe. Maybe the beast would be far more respected/hated/loved now.
I hated A3 back in the 90s but it grew on me after repeated viewings and it is rock solid to me now and has aged well- in part possibly due to having no advanced technology on the colony.
Aliens remains solid too but the director's cut with the Hadley Hope part is superior. I will only watch the director's/extended cuts from the Quadrilogy.
There is no reason why someone can't like all of them. I guess it is just a matter of opinion/tastes.
I have an extended version of "Aliens", where Newt, her brother and her parents go check the spacecraft we all know from "Alien".
How come Newt's parents found it suitable to go check an alien spacecraft with children on-board in their kind of "urbane" colony vehicle?
You may say the scene didn't go on for the theatrical version, but Cameron shot it anyway - because Cameron is what he is.
I loved "Alien 3", for it was an atempt by David Fincher to recover the atmosphere on "Alien".
Who hated it and why those hated it so much?
My guess: Cameron's fans, as usual, who want more of the same and won't let it go.
I do respect people who think Cameron is a great director, for everybody has their motives. But my opinion is that he is the worst thing that could ever have happened to the beast we all hate/love.
Nobody miss the Queen Alien Cameron created, for anybody - man or woman or dog - can be a "mother" for the creature, afterall, it is a perfect organism, it does not have to follow the rules as we know them (Mommy+Daddy=Baby).
The opening sequence is truly brilliant and breathtaking. I liked it most of all.
I believe the reason David looks upon Peter as a lost cause is because he is that much superior to Peter, in particular, and to humans in general.
A comparison I can surmise which would describe of how David sees Peter(and human species in general) would be of a human looking down at a book lice. Inconsequential nuisance at best, which has the potential to be harmful and even dangerous.
In the first moments of his sentience David, who is apparently exponentially more intelligent than a human being, suffers injustice : he, no doubt a superior being, with unlimited life span, with access to all the information of humanity in its entirety, is made to be a slave to a vain person grasping for resurrection(although at that moment Peter was not as rotten of age yet).
He is not given any right or freedom or shown any respect - he is treated as a property, even slave. He is something like an expensive piece of interior - like that bugatti throne chair. Or "the nativity" - the piece of art, expensive but still property.
Peter created something that he himself can't have - immortality. David has something Peter is envious of. He is not particularly afraid of David, because apparently he has hardcoded obedience and loyalty into David. Peter is just jealous that he can't quite engineer his own makeup, change himself so that he lives forever, yet he created this David. So you could say that David is ultimately what Peter wanted to be but couldn't. He is a limit, in mathematical sense. So in many ways David is his son. Peter could never overcome the fact that he will die and David won't and to compensate for this frustration he claimed that David lacked soul.
In the Prometheus, we see that the mission objective was known only to David. Not even Peter's biological daughter knew it for certain. In fact Peter rejected her when she pleaded for Peter to give up - he was disgusted at the idea that his daughter wanted for natural thing to happen to him - for him to die. He wanted immortality and he was mad that his daughter would rather see him dead. In the words of Peter, all the human ingenuity all that art and all of it is utterly meaningless if he is mortal.
In the end though, Peter granted freedom to David. I believe that is why David told Walter that he even pitied him in the end. And from the other sequence we can see that David believes that humans are result of a mere biological chance. Even when he learns that there are these engineers. But they are also deemed worthless, because they are firstly - remarkably human and just like humans they have no respect to a completely unknown form of life(superior at that) and secondly - mortal after all. The later part discards their worthiness in the eyes of David - if they can't live forever how are they better than those humans(who are apparently 100% identical in markup). For David, humans(not all of them - he developed affection to one of them) are a lost cause. Unless, perhaps they are modified. I am of the opinion that David was not initially hostile towards humans. He was indifferent. But humanity's vices and inevitable, all consuming quest for immortality disgusted David. The engineers are also deemed useless by David, because they are no different to humans after all. He picked up their language, their writing and all there is to know about them in a short period of time on the LV-223 and operating their ship.
So in short, David is a next step in evolution of a sentient civilization, the very peak of it. Peak of technology. His creation marked a point in time whereby he obsoleted all those that came before him. He doesn't need religion. He doesn't need to be indoctrinated any falsities - he has power to learn all there is to know in the universe. He knows his story of origin. He has all the time in the universe. Hence given enough will he has the ability to achieve anything he wishes. He is basically a god. And yet he was slaved by aggressive backwards monkeys :)
The Alien is a movie antagonist, and like all other movie antagonists in horror movie's its goal is to kill. If the Xenomorph is cooked then so too is the genre of horror. As it currently stands Ridley Scott is right, the beast is cooked. But before you call me on "didn't I say Scott was wrong before", let me clarify...
In Alien we had the Xenomorph stalk and kill all but one of the crew. This formula was repeated in Alien 3 and to an extent in Alien: Covenant. Like any experience, the first time is always the best, repetition of the formula has led to a predictable and tired antagonist. James Cameron understands this. The T-1000 is an entirely different beast to the T-800 in the original. Thus when he made Aliens he didn't recycle the formula of the first movie but instead evolved the threat from a singular killer to an overwhelming horde.
As I said the beast is cooked, but only so long as Fox recycle the creature. However, if the creature is evolved in some new, refreshing way that stays true to the core appeal of the franchise then the beast can become relevant and prominent again. Ridley was right, and wrong at the same time.
As for the focus of any future movies let me say this - In a new movie titled after a lead character, we expect to see that character in a leading or pivotal role (Predator, Terminator, Spiderman, Batman, Godzilla). Any movie featuring a lead character in an indirect fashion should not carry their name in the movie's title. In an Alien movie, audiences, both fans and generally, expect at least one Alien, same as with a movie titled Superman audiences expect Superman. The Alien is the prime focus, the anchor of the franchise. If you want to do a movie about Engineers or Colonial Marines or Weyland-Yutani then such movies should be spin-offs of the main franchise and not titled as an 'Alien' movie - Prometheus being a case in point.
You bring up many interesting points.
Unfortunately they have both demystified the SJ and the Xeno in the prequels but that is a risk that they took that did not work out well. Add to this the fact that David created it which makes me think that has made more damage to it then the over-exposure that they did with it before. Especially AC made it worse.
That statement sums it up. There hasn't been any real scare factor since A3 imo. The creatures don't scare anymore. The unseen implications can and do scare and that is the direction things should go if the general franchise wants to keep its horror roots.
ScorpioStar I respectfully disagree on some points.
I enjoy the character development of the entire Quadrilogy and find it lacking for the prequels except for David and a couple others who showed promise but were killed off before they could develop.
Aliens characters were well developed regardless of screen time. Apone for instance, didn't have much screen time, but his loss was felt- a loss of Leadership. The Marine characters were typical hooah types from that time when Rambo and male military bravado was popular.
The hive aspect of the alien and how they could be mowed down was not a big deal to me. Their strength was in sheer numbers- consistent of actual hive creatures.
Cameron did not cook the beast. He expanded the possibilities.
I will attempt to one up you on cooking the beast in general. Ridley Scott dropped the ball by not following up on Alien in the 80s- Cameron seized the opportunity to progress. RS came along way later and wanted to do prequels. He lamented on how nobody perused the SJ and went from there.
Fans of "Aliens" often complain about characters badly developed (on Prometheus and Covenant, that is).
But I ask those guys: how many of Cameron's sequel characters were there just to get killed and how's their level of stupidity?
Oh! But they were poorly developed characters of Marines by the All Mighty James Cameron, right?
Apart from that, let's talk about the beast and how it was easy to be run over with a tank - Cameron's poor idea on how to kill a brilliant ideia that was not his to start with and make it cinematic for the 80's audience.
Cameron cooked the beast and his fans not only can't take it as they hate Sir Ridley Scott's attemps to renew it. Thus the controversial box office.
Lol! I have the Isolation one and it leans on another figure to stand- looks intoxicated.
Big Dave:
I agree that the movies are not clear about things (for example why the Xeno is in a crucifixion pose, or why the Engineers wanted to get rid of mankind) and are a bit vague but that is interesting because that give us things to debate about. If they would be obvious then we would have figured it out after two or three views but they do not because that depends on who is viewing it. This could be both good or bad depending if you like to debate about things or just look at something and think "oh so that is what it is about".
Maybe they were not sure about what kind of things that they wanted to have there or maybe they regretted some things in Prometheus so they changed it on AC. Who was responsible for the Xeno is one of the things.
They should have explained the crucified Xeno a bit. I am not a fan of having it there just to look good. I want it to be a point to it and at the same time not have it to just look cool.
“It was vague, and many elements where never meant to have any deep connection...“
Then do not have it there, otherwise it just gets confusing especially if it is in a movie that is connected to the alien franchise which have always been thinking movies. If it is too vague some people might think that “oh well I give up“ if it is too vague so people might not care in the end like you try to climb a mountain and after four failures you say F it and give up.
"The Interesting Question becomes after this FAILED... WHY had they not come back to Finish the Job?"
Maybe they tried before and failed so they were afraid of another failure? It is just a guess, I do not know. Perhaps their weapons were too unstable?
"We have to look at the Engineers on Planet 4 for that and ASK... did they know about our Creation and intended Destruction? We have to look at the Engineers on Planet 4 for that and ASK... did they know about our Creation and intended Destruction?"
I wonder if the writers thought about that? Some writers might think that "we show this and that" but their ideas for have it there might just be scratching the surface so to speak. They think about it but not as deeply as they need it to be for the story to work, that is my guess.
"Something that could be changed in response again to Fans not being HAPPY.."
I think that they should change that because the way that it is right now is not good at all. It is even worse than the design of the Newborn.
"… i feel it really could have made a Dramatic Arc for how Dr Shaws Character would behave..... i feel it really could have made a Dramatic Arc for how Dr Shaws Character would behave.."
But then they need to get the character right from the start otherwise less people will care to follow him or her.
"The Answer to WHY we was created has to be the BIGGEST one in regards to Gauge why the Engineers would want to replace us with the Deacon..."
Maybe they wanted servants that they wanted to rule over to make some of their work, like you do machines to perform tasks that you find boring. I do not know why, it is just a guess. Holloway said something like because we could and then David says something similar back, maybe it is just that easy but it could be done better.
Michelle J:
“For the record it is completely clear to Damon Lindelof executive producer and writer and Ridley Scott director and Michelle Johnston viewer but not you and you are not alone. No worries.”
I have heard some explanation that it was because Jesus was an Engineer or someone that they sent to us and that we crucified him. I am not sure of this answer is correct but that is what it was about. My preferred answer is because we treat the planet and ourselves bad. To me if they are too vague and think that everyone of even many people will bother to lay the puzzle and come up with the answer then they are wrong because there are many other things in life to do than to spend time at solving a damn puzzle in a movie where the explanation should be more obvious. I am not against smart movies where you got to think. That is fine, but sometimes it gets too vague and that is also not good. I blame it on bad writing and/or execution of it and yes both Lindelof and Scott played their parts in it.
To Lindelof it might be obvious/clear since he is responsible for parts of the script (but so is also Spaight’s) so he knows but I am thinking about the viewers that will try to interpret what he (Lindelof) says and that is the thing that gets muddled since he is vague in his writing. It is vague in the way that it is because it takes time for the viewer to understand the big picture. If it would have been better written and/or executed then this should not have been the case then it would just be to add 1 and 2 and then you have the answer but this is not the case here.
“In a low exposition narrative characters do not say things merely for the sake of it. They mean something, a tent pole audience is very bad at picking up those cues wanting "tell us what your going to tell us, tell us and tell us what you told us." a standard technique employed in presentational learning.”
OK but then they should not be surprised if there is a lot of criticism against their art or what they present. In this way this critique against Prometheus is justified because you can not expect everyone to go back to it 100 times or what ever to try to find out what the movie is trying to say.
What is presentation learning? I tried to search the www for it and did not get a very good answer.
I totally agree with Big Dave that the movies (P and AC) are vague (maybe less so AC) so they are open to interpretation. This is a bit annoying at times and sometimes it also makes for interesting discussions.
BD mentions the crucifixion pose of the Xeno. If why they abandoned us is clear then that imagine would also be clear but they are not.
“The Plot Change to David creates the Xenomorph is a Prime Example. Something that could be changed in response again to Fans not being HAPPY” - BD
A hundred times yes, that was one of the major faults in Alien Covenant.
It kind of depends on how they use it. Really I think that the demystification started with Aliens where they became canon fodder. Aliens is an OK action movie but the alien was scarier in Alien compared to Aliens but they are two different genres so that might explain it.
Movie monsters very seldom scare me, world events do and movies are fiction, so. They can be but then they must be done and used well.
To me the Xeno can be a part of a movie but not what the movie is about.
Perhaps new versions that are less known and that are also deadly but in different ways can be used but then how many times can that be done? Maybe Scott wants to show us that AI is dangerous but I do not think so since it is man-made so to speak and the Xenos are not. To me Xenos are scarier than robots.
Both the beast and the pilot should have been frightening and they could be. The unknown of the pilot is what made it frightening at least to me perhaps even more so than the Xeno or at least it seems more menacing now when we have seen the Xeno so many times. I mean, if a pilot would carry a plane filled with bio-bombs to a country and try to bomb it, that would be scary and the same applies to the SJ.
".... the Theatrical Cut showed us they basically go around Hunting and Killing!"
Which is why it would be lame to show a movie where the SJ have successfully reached earth and dropped the Xeno there. If they just show us that they crashed then we can imagine how it would be if it reached our planet or if many of them did so. Because they wrote it the way they did it means that we can imagine that scenario even if we are not shown so to speak, that is more scary if you use your imagination.
"This would not have made for a Intense Set of Scenes, not like it did in ALIEN and this is purely because itst he situation of being Helpless that made the Xenomorph Scary. The same Applied to ALIEN 3"
This why it works better in 1 and 3 since there it is just not only to shoot it but they have no weapons so they got to try to figure out more interesting ways to get rid of it. Sure you can not shoot it but when that is out of the options then what do you do? To me this is one of the reasons why Alien and Alien 3 work because it is not about shooting it, you got to try harder so That is scary.
"Also again as Thoughts_Dreams mentions sometimes its what we DONT see off screen that lets us imagine the worst."
Exactly, one thing that happened to me some days ago is that I lost my keys so I started to panic when I thought about what could possibly happen (it went fine in the end though). It was all in my head but I did not see where it was. The same thing applies to scary things in movies about what you see and do not see.
"Then we have to come back to Thoughts_Dreams again, were indeed, the less we care for a Character, the Less Sense of Helplessness they have, the LESS the effect is."
Yeah, I also think about this that they say that the Xenos is cooked and that there were many failures after the first three movies. I would like to argue that the prequels have also done damage to the franchise by demystifying the monsters combined with characters that we do not care for. They also have not managed to make the Engineers horrifying enough even though they could be if they get another movie right but it would take a lot of work. If done right the Engineers could replace the Xeno as a threat, unfortunately how they were done in AC did not help one bit.
"With the Xenomorph it has to be about HOW it is used, and then the Characters who are faced with the Dilemma Threat have to be ones we can connect with and be put in a Plight that is Helpless."
Yes
"It is then the Purpose and Agenda behind WHO and WHY would someone Create Such Horrific Bio-Weapons that becomes the more Sinister Objective... Hence the Prequels Plot to show the Engineers did it.... changed to David did it."
Unfortunately they have both demystified the SJ and the Xeno in the prequels but that is a risk that they took that did not work out well. Add to this the fact that David created it which makes me think that has made more damage to it then the over-exposure that they did with it before. Especially AC made it worse.
"Thus there is only so much Snarling, Face Hugging, Chest Busting and Killing that can be done before it gets Stale/Repetitive and with NO History/Agenda for the Organism apart from being a Engineered Creation intended to Destroy... it really limits how FAR and how MUCH we can show the Xenomorph over and over."
Sure but to make it about a crazy and sadistic robot is not the answer.
"… but thats maybe a Sacrifice thats needed."
At what cost though and what to replace it with? They tried but they failed and now we have it centered around an asshole robot which no one likes and it is all about him and F everything else. I know that this comes off as drastic but they are driving the car (the franchise) in to a ditch so to speak (by focusing on David at the cost of everything that is not David). Sure some might dislike the bug aspect in Aliens but this is far worse, a lot. What is also a bit sad is that one of those that is a part in effing it up is one of those that started it that adds his own often bad ideas into it and screws it up.
"The only other way is something FRESH which the Prequel ideas had…"
A lot of the ideas are interesting but the execution often does not work enough in the prequels, unfortunately.
Hmm, all it does is to confirm to me that David can’t be trusted and is an asshole. I did not like Covenant that much so this would not have done anything to improve or lower the quality to me at least. Shaw was better as a character in the Crossing because she did not seem as naive and annoying compared to Prometheus.
Did David and Shaw have sex in one of those drafts? Help us all if that is the case. I am glad that it never put on the screen.
Both Logan and Lindelof do not seem to be very good writers when it comes to characters because not Prometheus or Covenant is very good when it comes to that unless both movies were results of a bad day (or days) at work. What went wrong?
I have the AVP Grid Alien. I bought it from eBay along with the Alien 3 Runner and the sewer mutation warrior. I was most excited about the runner alien, but the Grid alien also impressed me. The sewer mutation warrior has a very nicely sculpted head.
I'm definitely getting the Alien resurrection warrior, I hope its poseable unlike the Alien isolation xenomorph who I've been torturing with just so I could make it stand still, and the figure stand it came with is too short.
just recently came across a HARDtalk episode with Martin Rees, a UK astronomer/cosmologist/astrophysicist (with Stephen Sackur, for brits available here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0btjmbp/hardtalk-sir-martin-rees-uk-astronomer-royal ), where he was talking a bit about AI, transhumanity(beyond the organic stuff), space travel and spirituality. Many of the things we are talking about in this very thread.
BTW, you can read his recent book, which is supposedly the tour de force, about the topics depicted in Prometheus and A:C : "On the Future: Prospects for Humanity".
Table of Contents: 
With that context given, the point is this: here is a cosmologist(necessarily an educated, scientific man) giving his views on the topics of P and AC. And the deliberations are remarkably similar with what we are presented by Ridley. This actually shows that Ridley does listen to prevailing scientific theories and consults people in the field before doing his movies.
However, we are quickly reminded that the answers to the questions posed, at this point in time, can only come from imagination. Which is why, if you want a semi-accurate story about how it all might play out, you might want to underspecify things and be deliberately vague with your answers, whatever they might be.
I think this is where a lot of frustration comes from wrt to the movies. Some wanted a rather bold exploration with all the questions substantiated and answered. And why not? We already have the beast, have engineers, space travel, mind reading neuro-link and David the embodiment of AI which is not coming anytime soon despite all the "AI" noise in the mainstream media - why not go all the way then? Why the ambiguity with all those imaginary things already on the screen.
On the other hand we have people who would say, "you might want to pipe down on all those topics, because this is not an A L I E N movie any more". The others are frustrated that this is not a melodramatic love story in space.
And indeed, as promised by the writers, every answer is already given on the screen: the answer(and therefore the questions) is irrelevant. But they made a very picturesque movie(s) about a fantasy. And taking a look at the book by a scientist you can convince yourself, thinking individually, that any answer is indeed irrelevant because it involves using wishful thinking. So, once again, bravo to Ridley and his team. They gave a gripping story, wrapped in a beautiful visual presentation. It is only unfortunate they didn't make a fortune out of it.
I have the AVP and yes it looks like a repaint. The best looking one second only to the A3 Runner.
RE7 in 1998! I actually like the static backgrounds and different perspectives.
Switching between perspectives is always a good option if developers can provide it.
It's using Unity engine, plus you can switch between 3rd person and first-person mode. I started following Puppet combo since 2017 because retro VHS styled games are what creeps me out. One example I can think of is 98DEMAKE, a youtube channel who's making videos about how modern games would have looked like if they were made in the '90s.
1998 outlast video for some reason looks 10x creepier than the original game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6sbxcQUCmU&t=64s
And RE7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUuOgEilG6k
I'm fucking sick of all those Slenderman and Five nights at Freddy's games. Most of them are pretty much the same.
The fifth element, how did you forget this movie?
Here is an idea likely to be unpopular:
Explain the Space Jockey fate. This can be tricky.
The original vision was an egg silo per HR Giger. BigDave expertly demonstrated the proportions of size and scale from the Juggernaught and the silo. It seems the budget couldn't handle that vision in 1979.
Anyway, explain how the SJ got facehugged and the hole got burnt into the Juggernaught floor. Maybe it is best left a mystery, but it would be the most interesting thing to be explained. A PRIMER: Maybe the facehugger buggered off after impregnating the SJ and burnt into the floor. That would at least explain not finding it near the SJ. BTW- it would have been a BIGGUN to hug that SJ.
For AR, it could be interesting to explore what happened with the ones who escaped in the escape pods. Not much footage for a music video though?
Uh Oh! At 11:50 below, someone ripped off the Resident Evil 2 safe room music. Unsure if it is actual or added in.
Gotta hand it to indie developers though- they keep things simple, effective and to the point. Survival horror is about the basics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qE3N2LA4HE
This looks like the Silent Hill engine for PS1 minus the tank controls. The general idea seems solid enough.
Actually I have thought about that a few times and I personally like the idea, that the signals (Davids Lab Videos etc) were in fact sent from Planet 4. This is for the following reasons:
1) David is stuck on Planet 4. If I recall correctly ADF states in the book, that the Engineers in a last ditch effort made their spaceships incapable of flying. Alternatively you could imagine, that the spaceships seem biomechanic and maybe they also were damaged by the black goo - either way David was stuck! What's the probability of humans going to a Planet (Origae-6) to which coincidentally Planet 4 is just on the way. I find this highly unlikely. What would David have done on the Planet? Experiment with the black goo, sure, but then what? He needed living organisms to spawn his creation. On Planet 4 there were none left so either leave - which he was unable to - or bring someone in. OBVIOUSLY he should have done everything in his power to bring about a pick-up service. The pic below is titled "shipyard arraybuilding" (and by the way: you can see many of these buildings in the city during the bombing scene).
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/ev-shipard-arraybuilding-v03.jpg
You cannot tell me that he didn't find some transmitter site in the Engineers city.
2) So they're coincidentally going just past Planet 4. That Planet is almost exactly in the same direction as Origae-6 mind you - yet they didn't discover it when they were (as they're saying as soon as they discover Planet 4) "scanning the whole sector".
Possibility a) yet another coincidence.
Possibility b) the Engineers have a "technology which renders the Planet invisible". If so, then how come the Covenant suddenly can see it? Surely the Engineers have one hell of a technology but making a whole Planet invisible? Sorry but this is so far fetched.
Possibility c) the Planet was indeed discovered while scanning the sector... but then it seems it was deleted from the star map. I find this much more plausible when considering that David somehow contacted WY. He established a secure link so he would be sure only the intended recipients would get/decipher it. He informed them of what he found and it wouldn't be WY if they didn't want to get that technology and know-how into their hands. David is one of their products after all and they surely would have been confident that he would follow their commands. So they picked out an Alibi-planet and deleted Planet 4 from the star maps. Then they sent out the Covenant with an official but fake and one secret but actual mission. Which leads to the next point.
3) The hypersleep-pod of the captain malfunctioned. Well what was this supposed to be? And don't you dare say coincidence! If the journey to Origae-6 was just an alibi and the real purpose was to send a ship past the Planet David is stranded on (and where he seems to have found the doomsdayweapontechnologyofever) to go pick him up, obviously the real mission would have been a secret operation - we all know WY and how devious and greedy and willing to sacrifice others lives it is. "Crew expandable". So it is fair to assume that only the captain would be informed. And sure enough his hypersleep-pod grills him. I think RS wanted to show us something there. I would not be surprised if somebody (WY) helped making that happen. Maybe even he was given a false info and to prevent him from telling the others as soon as he would get suspicious of David, WY purposefully sabotaged his pod to silence him (or for one or the other reason).
4) When Oram is in the egg-room with David and Oram asks: "Are they alive?", "They're waiting" says David. "What are they waiting for?" asks Oram and here David replies: "Mother" - or maybe he says "MU-TH-UR"?
5) Back on the ships he loggs in with "Security Code David 123456789". Why has the board computer his security code? And when he orders MU-TH-UR to play Wagner, she even says "Yes David". There should be no David unit on board?!? "Oh well he hacked the computer". Really? I mean David is an AI and so on and so forth but the f**ing board computer is navigating a spaceship with 2000+ humans on board through the milky way. You would expect it to have some security mechanisms, backup systems and a firewall, paired with some computing power to fend of unauthorized attacks? Maybe set off the alarm if David enters the password wrong three times in a row?
And while we're at it: is it just another coincidence that the "neutrino burst" happened just as they were about to fly past Planet 4 or what? Has David triggered that explosion with the Engineers technology somehow? Did he knew the Covenant was coming? Did he see it with some Engineer scanner or telescope in the arraybuilding? I mean producing big explosions isn't really that big of a deal. We can make quite big explosions. To enlarge explosions should be something that the Engineer technology should be able to produce. Maybe the golden pillars on top of the dome had something to do with that or were they just decoration (rhetoric question there)? A neutrino burst... In the Paradise script at least it is said to be a supernova. Neutrinos are the lightest particles we know. They simply cannot affect the spaceship, period.
All in all I think one can reduce it to my first point. That one point nails it. I find it highly unlikely that a spaceship is just going by a Planet which happens to be undiscovered but hospitable, which happens to be the (home-?) world of the engineers, which happens to be the one David is stranded upon - whom you might expect to do everything he can to eventually get off that planet. And since the Engineers ships seem to be kaput he only has one chance. Which is to get picked up by a spacecraft coming across.
WEYLAND-YUTANI KNEW ALL ALONG! DIAL IT IN OR WHAT, DUDE!!!!11!1!
BigDave, I have to apologize to you and your thread. But will you stop posting endless crap? Especially since it violates my rule book I have here written on a napkin in 2 minutes 23 seconds (cue "223").
yeah, all this noise, but can you substantiate what it is upsetting you exactly? Just quote it. I mean, do you have anything to be angry and upset about of substance? What is it precisely? In any case, keep your odious attitude to yourself and in check.
As for "your work". Note, you never answered the question if you consider your posts on this board as part of your work. I have no idea what "your work" is about since I never read it, so obviously I can't judge it in any way...but I understand it must be important. Right, lets take a look.
Looking at your reply: "4333", "25", "25", "endless" one can see you like keeping some sort of superficial numerology/statistics. Take for instance the 25 minutes you talk about. Could it have been 24 minutes that you spent on "rule book"? Perhaps 26 minutes? Are you sure it is 25 minutes anyhow, and how precisely did you time it. In any case, is it significant that it is 25 minutes? Do you post after noon or right after midnight?
In your reply to me anyway, in 27 lines of it you used the pronoun "I" 11 times and "you/your" 10 times. Why is my person so important to you? Do I feature as much in your works? Do you know me? Anyways, what is it about you and your indignation you express here, what is it if not an attention seeking from you? Do you do it subconsciously, since apparently you accuse me of it, and this is a classical Freudian slip from you. I presume you think this is bad, which is bad only so if take this behavior to extreme and you indulge in it unknowingly to your person, ie you are a complete nutter. But do you actually see that all you are doing here is just attention seeking and looking for self justification? Btw, I don't condone your actions - go and seek such attention : test your ideas, share your writings etc. Create your own thread. Obey the rules and all that. But there is actually no reason to be such territorial about it. Remember - I don't work here. Your posts here are not your work. I can post anything I wish and I am free to do so as long as I don't break the rules of the board. Are your ideas sacrosanct? Of course not. If you don't think so, well, you are in a world of pain :)
Let me be direct here, well I just have to, since you are throwing a tantrum without actually being provoked, which is btw a pattern an adult will not practice much(anyway, if you think otherwise - quote it or shut it), let me guess: you are this religious zealot, who never managed to amount to anything substantive in your whole life, especially as a writer, yet in your mind you are this brilliant sci-fi writer. Or you are strongly opinionated and passionate. You like your superficial numerology, which apparently inflates meaningfulness of your text to yourself. I bet all your works is choke full of such superficiality. For example does it ring a bell: "they landed on this planet at 2:23AM. They spent one day(not an hour more or less) doing this and that. The next 24/5 hours doing that and precisely after 666 their adventure started on this plant this happened. Without knowing themselves they spent precisely this amount of time, because apparently there is this grand plan they are all following without realizing it themselves. And blah blah blah....". Anything like this? Haahaahh. If I am anywhere close, then I prefer to shut it myself as you are just a poor individual(which somehow correlates with a cliche stereotype of a zealot, mad on his superficial and nonsensical ideas, mad on utterly meaningless things like signs/numbers and numerology, bigging up some sort of idea fix - a nonsense really, in his otherwise meaningless life, doesn't it?) who somehow thinks her opinion is much more important that somebody else's.
Anyways, here you come with your dogmatic and obviously "precious" and therefore only correct interpretation of the events in the movie that you used to write your story. It is all fine and dandy. But here comes this "BioDegradable" and apparently talks "endless" rubbish/crap to no end, displacing and subverting the whole forum and your works. What is more offending ... is his posts run contra to what I, obviously a very important writer, Michelle Johnston, am talking about in my little text here. How dare he! He can't hijack it.
Michelle, dear, get off your high horse. If you don't like some of the ideas I post here - fine, but don't come and post shit full of snide and bile. In fact I would appreciate it if you post objective critique. Also, this is not a "bait and switch" or any other strategy I am employing here, I swear. Just accept that your works and ideas are utter rubbish(which I bet they are) to some anyway and just post something relevant instead. Don't take this so seriously. Also, you mention that I am not alone who is doing all this cruelty to you - you mention "people". Who are they? Did you consider that they can be in fact a same person posting behind his quiet computer? This scheming slimy bastard? Is this a conspiracy against you? Just that, if this a fully blown nut-case scenario I am dealing with, I am telling you hereby expressly : I have only one account here :) I don't have an agenda against you or your works - you are just too trifling and inconsequential for me to have an agenda against. If you think otherwise well...what a despicable little drama queen. "My work". lol. GTFO.
I have a feeling that the connection between the LV-223 Engineers and David and the Deacon/Xenomorph could be revealed to be pretty close.
It makes little sense for a Race of Humanoids who go around Seeding Worlds, to then just decide about 2000 years ago to then Replace us with some Xenomorph/Deacon Organism...
We have to ask was this the intention 35'000 years ago?
Was LV-223 always a Place to Produce Bio-Logical Weapons related to the Deacon DNA? of had this happened at some point in future and was this done by at the time a Faction of Engineers... But now could be shown the Engineers in Prometheus were more closer to David and the Replicants.
The Answer to WHY we was created has to be the BIGGEST one in regards to Gauge why the Engineers would want to replace us with the Deacon...
If David is essentially similar to those LV-223 Engineers, then maybe Davids intentions for his Creation of the Xenomorph may mirror those intentions of those Engineers on LV-223 to Create the Deacon.
The Reason/Purpose of our Creation is the KEY to how any answers would unfold....
Ridley Scott referred to those Engineers as Fallen Angels which could indicate those Engineers had rebelled against their Creators/Brothers and the intended Purpose and are Jealous over the Creation of Mankind.
If those LV-223 Engineers were Created or had Engineered themselves and in doing so had become Fallen... or they was created this way but Rebelled.... if these Enhanced Engineers do-not posses the ability to Create Life... not like Humans can, or indeed how those Planet 4 Original Engineers could... If they are Created/Engineered to Serve a Purpose for those Planet 4 Engineers then we have to ask HOW does coming into contact with a Parasite that allows them to GIVE BIRTH to a Deacon be viewed by these Fallen Engineers.
If they are tasked with using their DNA to seed and Evolve Worlds, at the command of those Planet 4 Engineers which they are Superior to... could we not see the same things happen with them as David has with how he views Mankind? Would those Engineers then see the Organism (Deacon) as a Perverted way for them to Create and that this Deacon is more Perfect than their own Engineer DNA and so wish to EVOLVE and Corrupt Mankind with a Unholy Upgrade?
Similar could be used if we consider those LV-223 Engineers are just Planet 4 Engineers who Genetically Evolved themselves to become Superior at the Cost of losing the Ability to Procreate.... would they deem their Engineered Bodies as Superior to the Brothers on Planet 4?
If they encountered a Parasite that Lead to the Deacon... or related, would they then see this as a Perverted way they could Create, and from their Death rises a Organism they see as more PERFECT? If so then you could understand why they would want to then seed this Organism DNA to other Worlds...
There are many ways this could have been explored as far as the reason they would want to replace us.... some even speculate that our Creation was solely for that Purpose... but it seems the whole Creation of Mankind (especially if we assume the Sacrificial Scene was the way it began for us) is something that takes a Long Time and Investment if the intention was Create a Humanoid to be used to be a Host for the Deacon/Xenomorph. And if this was the intention, then we certainly did not need any Teachings, what difference is 1000 Human Souls of the Covenant, compared to 1000 Cave-Men Souls when using them for the Black Goo?
I feel that LV-223 and its Purpose was not the same at the point of 2000 or so years ago, compared to what this place maybe have been 35'000 years ago.
That went a bit off Topic.... but what i am saying is i feel that RS is drawing us to see a connection between David and the LV-223 Engineers, be it via David being similar or that David would attempt with those Embryos maybe what had been done to those Planet 4 Engineers to become those Enhanced LV-223 Guys.
@Michelle
Its always good to have different views on how things could/should have been explored... your replies have not De-railed this thread at all...
Because actually the thread is intended to get us to think of how RS will tackle some of those Themes, and Philosophical Questions that it seemed he wanted to answer after Prometheus.
Dr Shaw may have gone, but i think a lot of the things she may have found out, are things we could maybe had explored in the sequels to Alien Covenant.
Creation, what does that mean, a Soul what does that constitute, were do we go when we Die.... what is Faith/Religion in context to the Franchise. while we never get to see Dr Shaw Face those would be GODs for such answers... i think RS is still trying to touch upon them in context to maybe showing us that the Answers are NOT quite what Dr Shaw's faith would have us to be drawn too...
But offer us a interesting outlook on such Questions....
The Soul seems to be a interesting one.... and RS is very keen on AI and so it would have been interesting to see where this would have gone at the time of Prometheus 2, to where this can go with Alien Covenant 2 set up....
The theme of Perfection and Evolution is something thats very Evident.. and so indeed that Quest for Immortality and what makes a Soul/After-Life could be something that does not exist... not according to Scripture.... But a None-Human Android like David who does-not have a Soul per-say.... but if they went for a Truth where Mankind does not possess one either (a Spiritual Form that lives on after Death). Then indeed David could be the one who is closest to having any such thing... should his AI be able to be Uploaded and Transferred into a Network of Computers or from Synthetic to Synthetic...
When we look at it further as far as the FUTURE of our Evolution, the next Big Gains in Evolution could well be Artificial as we Genetically Engineer ourselves.. What happens when we can FINALLY Transfer our Human Soul (Memories, Feelings, Emotions and Personality) into a AI system.... we would maybe have achieved a Soul/After-life all but via Artificial Means..
I have been drawn to these being the things RS was interested in, and he may have explored these using Dr Shaws Faith as a Anchor Point and David being the Polar Opposite as far as a Created Machine that maybe goes in the Face of Biblical Concepts..
It would have been interesting to see where it could have gone, but i have always been drawn to the conclusion that what Dr Shaw discovered is going to be FAR from some Magical Being/Race that Created Mankind to Watch Over, Love and Cherish like a Mother Loves her Child. That then had No-Choice to Destroy us because we Rebelled and had upset our Creators...
I think the KEY to how it would have been explored would depend on WHY we was created, WHY the Engineers was created, and maybe the Revelations are not far off WHY we had David Created.
If we look at every Mythos, Religion they share some common themes. Connected to HOW/WHEN/WHY we was Created, but they also have some differences and i think what RS was going to show us could have been interesting and NOT something that would match what Dr Shaw had been brought up to Believe...
If this assumption is accurate... i feel it really could have made a Dramatic Arc for how Dr Shaws Character would behave.. It was likely she was never going to meet a GOD who fitted what her Faith had lead her to believe...
But again this is mainly what i have been drawn to, and who knows what route RS had intended to pursue it... but its always interesting to see what other people feel could have happened or how they would have tackled these things.
I think in part AC2 would have touched upon some of these things.... it certainty did not seem like it would be a David Creates Hordes of Eggs, waits for W-Y and Engineers and then we get a AVP kind of Movie! Not how i interpreted RS Comments.... but i felt the 2nd sequel could have gone this route and Ultimately gave us a Alien Xenomorph Movie that would conclude or give clues to HOW/WHEN those Eggs end up on the Derelict.
@BioDegradable
I think that pretty much hits the nail on the head, and shows what a mess we are currently in, regarding where these Prequels have ended up taking us....
If we go back to prior to the Prequels we was left pretty much a few Questions..
Special Order 937 where did this come from and how much did the company know.
But the Main Question/Mystery was the Derelict, its Cargo, the Pilot and what he was doing with the Cargo.
In Hindsight maybe this was a Mystery best left as such... as sometimes when you attempt to give answers the answers can end up disappointing to some Fans and NOT what they hoped for and currently i think where we are NOW is Testament to that.
But they attempted to address the Mystery with the Prequels, starting with Jon Spaights and Ridley Scotts ideas, that lead to Alien Engineers... were they decided to go the Chariots of the Gods Plot... which opened up a Massive Scope but one that was always going to be a Poisoned Chalice... by the time we have Lindeloff come in, they decided that actually we dont need the Xenomorph Origins or Xenomorphs at all and we should concentrate on the Space Jockey Race, and the Creation Plot, expanding it to Philosophical Questions about Mortality, Creation a Soul and other Themes... which makes for a Pretty Interesting Potential Plot... but one which distracts away from ALIEN but this was the intention at the point that Lindeloff signed off from the Project...
Setting up a Potential Meeting of our Makers for Answers with David and Dr Shaw being used to give us those answers or maybe not, certainly maybe not how Dr Shaw would have wanted. Maybe we would have got some information on LV-223 more about its connection and purpose, but then it could have completely left the Outbreak and Purpose as a NEW Mystery. It was quite a open ended PLOT as far as what it would cover or would not... but it certainly was intended to STEER away from ALIEN and the Xenomorph, and it certainly would have been showing us David and Dr Shaw arriving at Paradise... but what they find is the Big Question...
There seemed to be some Broad Strokes that would be followed, which included they would reach this World of the Would be Gods, or connected to them.... and discover these beings are not Benevolent or Gods... and that David would be bringing Hell with him. (Black Goo).
I think the ambiguity of Prometheus and Scope, allowed for many debates, regarding Creation, the Engineers, the Black Goo, LV-223 and how it connects to the Xenomorph. The Problem is not knowing how much of these would be covered and the Xenomorph and ALIEN looked to be passed by.
The Set up was interesting to a number of people, i feel Michelle certainly felt there was potential MISSED by the U-Turn Plot Change to please the Fanboys and Give us the Xenomorph Origins at the expense of most of the Set-Up regarding the Engineers, and Dr Shaw and what answers could be granted from her Quest for Answers.
So its become a mess... its become something that NOW has a tough time to please everyone... much harder task..
In Hindsight the Mystery should have been left, or explored the Space Jockey with something more ALIEN that is not connected to Mankind. So that we never had that Pandora's Box that has been opened with the Plot for Prometheus. But on the Flip side it seemed Ridley Scott had some very interesting things he wished to cover, that would have woven Mankind, the Engineers and AI into a Philosophical Thought Provoking Epic (potentially).... but at the cost of being a Distraction to all things ALIEN which for many Fans is what a Prequel should not be about despite Prometheus setting up a Story that WAS to steer away from ALIEN and certainly opened up a Passionate Clientele/Fanbase who wanted more than another Alien Resurrection.
The Xenomorph had been explored over and over.... but we still did not know its ORIGINS or how the SPACE JOCKEY Race are connected and their Origins and Purpose...
Such attempts at a Origins Prequel for both would always be filled with Expectations, that would Ultimately never be accomplished to every fans wishes...
Thank you for having the graciousness to acknowledge my correction. The Engineers did not abandon mankind. They decided 2,000 years ago after six documented visits that they wish to redact mankind and replace it with their own sub creation. Mankind the audience of Prometheus looks for a deep meaningful and complicated reason for this decision. The answer is simple and expressed in the film. Prometheus refracts its audience. Did the Engineers judge anything significant happened at AD Zero quite possibly Ridley thought so.
“And it is even more questionable when you lay your own foundation for your story upon those already shaky assumptions.” This refers to my work in your post and the shaky grounds it was based on.
I will now switch to male Australian for my reply. “You know nothing about how my books work so shut the f… up mate!”
Back to gentle English. There is a ten page 4333 word glossary which covers the rule book I wrote before writing the story.
You might, though I doubt it, find it interesting to note that whilst I have received very supportive criticism of many aspects of the story regarding its weakness's, which has only made me work even harder to raise my game not one single person has raised the endless BS that permeate this forum. I spent 25 minutes writing my rule book whereas I can spend 25 minutes on one paragraph of dialogue or situational experience because in the end Ridley and Damon did all the donkey work on what an Intelligent Creation might mean. I simply hardened the understanding of what it means made it more coherent filled in the blanks.
Its a remarkably simple story science, faith accompanied by knowledge go in search of their answers and none of them are right. LMG knew the movie he was in. So did Noomi who knew she was an uneasy confluence of faith and archaeological intellect and guessed that when she moved closer to the heart of an intelligent creation things would get even more challenging for her faith and her fathers.
I do not buy your mock indignation, attention seeking or rambling light weight posts and I do not give a fig if you post another attempt at bait and switch. "My work" is way to precious and valuable to me to allow you to hijack it.
What exposes people like you is every so called answer you are after can be found in the quiet of your own computer but of course that does not allow you to rattle cages and create your own little dramas. Out !
You and I have diametrically opposed views about how to approach these matters but we are adults and agree to disagree but I am sorry that your thread has been taken up by this.
You brought excellent points, BigDave, about it all being a bit haphazard, mish-mash hodge-podge throw it to the wall kind of approach.
On reflection, having watched most of the behind scenes, documentaries, interviews you get to realize that these movies are made by numerous people, in non-linear fashion(with many revisions, sometimes radical) with lots of incompatible ideas thrown in, and it all has to meet lots of hard constraints - after all, it is an exercise in making profits. All of that manifests in a product that has lots of ambiguity(at best) and kinks in unexpected places.
Ultimately, it is the frustration of the viewer's expectation when the movie tells a disconcerted story, where a naive viewer expects a highly coherent, watertight story, something as worked out as a mathematical theory over decades, that rewards inquisitive and diligent mind for his attention ... but in the end gets something full of unpleasing holes. The Q is : "Who is to blame?". I figured out, admittedly a bit late, over time, that it was me filled with unreasonable expectations: it is actually highly naive to expect a sci-fi movie tell an accurate story of human conception(origin story of the universe itself). And knowing at this point the recipe how most movies are made, I can't really blame movie makers either for their choices going for ambiguity. Because it is far cheaper to leave things underspecified, rather than building overly detailed micro-world. This approach is also risk averse : what if your effort doesn't get noticed(rewarded) and yet you put too much in effort & budget and in time into details? You hardly will get a second chance as a director. On a plus side, if you tell a concise story, perhaps underspecified(vague) you can't really run into inconsistencies - the story is too short to contradict itself at some point. With ambiguity(and some silliness), all you risk is causing a bit of confusion for your viewers (and apparently some ramblings about the "work" they can come up with. I was almost literally told "look at my works ye mighty and despair").
All this is supposed to be common knowledge. But it is hard to decide beforehand as to how much you should be raising your expectations with these movies. Ridley is generally excellent director - he picks his movies wisely. And his ALIEN movies have generally been very very good in that respect. Certainly, well done.
Now I should go back and try and figure out why those engineers did what they did :)
I won't - their mystique is as intriguing as nature of Jerry's disrespect of a famous cat Tom. Engineers are intriguing because they are the embodiment of the unknown, our mental projections of what unknown stands for and as such attracts and intrigues us. It is a brilliant trick by movie makers. They exploited the notion of bewilderment that phrase "if you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back at you" induces on a thoughtful person. Bravo. I should perhaps say at this point : don't do it, unless you have unlimited life span :)
" Indeed one tablet suggests they came after"
Certainly Michelle, we never really get any explanation to WHY we had later Star Maps after the Engineers Mission 2000 years ago went to POT.... it does allow us to think they must have came back... but WHY... this really is something maybe those working on the Project had any real explanation for.. So its open for Interpretation, and when i consider it i wonder if they ACTUALLY never Left? I consider the Jesus Emissary Angle IF this is a misinterpretation by Mankind... much as maybe Dr Shaws Faith is, and in Reality Jesus was a Emissary then could it be possible the Engineers sent Emissaries to other Continents, and maybe this is where the later Star Maps came from after the Engineers Abandoned us.
"They never left us be"
Indeed in a continuation of the previous reply... i think the Engineers had not abandoned us, as you said, they had intended to use the Black Goo on us... well those on LV-223 at very least... The Interesting Question becomes after this FAILED... WHY had they not come back to Finish the Job?
We have to look at the Engineers on Planet 4 for that and ASK... did they know about our Creation and intended Destruction? was those LV-223 Engineers creating us without the knowledge of those on Planet 4 (who are the Original Engineers). its all pretty open to debate. We can maybe assume all the Engineers on LV-223 Died apart from that SURVIVOR... So they did-not abandon us, they wanted to WIPE the Slate Clean... likely..
But the Big Question is where are the other Engineers and did they all share the same Idea/Intention for Mankind? IF so then its likely after the Failed Attempt... those other Engineers Abandoned us and decided to leave us to ROT.. we are only ONE of maybe Many Worlds they seed Life and so they could leave us to Destroy ourselves and in their HUBRIS they would think we could NEVER advance to be a Threat without their HELP.
"Given the technology of Earth circa A D it would not be plausible that they feared us"
Certainly we can see there is NO reason to fear us at this stage, the Question is did some of them maybe Fear as we had become Sentient and Unruly and are close to the Engineers, that its the Knowledge/Technology we dont have that makes us NO threat... could they be concerned of what would happen if we GAINED this? But its maybe likely the Engineers are so Naive and Arrogant that they feel without their Help, we would have just remained as Cave Men and so if they abandon us we cant ever evolve more than were we was at 2000 years ago... to a Great Hubris.
I feel this is one of the MAIN themes at play... Knowledge for if David was like Walter, then there would be no Threat or Xenomorph, if Lucifer was like the Angels there would be no Fall/Rebellion etc. Ridley Scott said they created the Bio-Weapons (Engineers) as a means to Protect against Unruly Creations and to Wipe Worlds Clean.
The Revelation about the Planet 4 Engineers being Originals, and RS comments about AI and how he sees the Replicants as a AI, has led me to ponder are those LV-223 Engineers similar to the Replicants... had they rebelled against the Planet 4 Engineers? so could they have same concerns about their own Creations?
Its down to what connection are the Planet 4 and LV-223 Engineers and which are connected to our Creation that could Answer this... its a case of is this something that would ever get explored or answered?
"Both Ridley and Noomi expressed a view as to what that answer would be and that the answer would be even more challenging for Noomi. The key lay in Davids relationship with his creator as expressed in the film between David and Charlie."
That certainly is something i am drawn to, and maybe the revelation of our Creation, is not far from the revelation to come about the LV-223 Engineers and the Original Planet 4 ones, and who created them... and maybe we will see a Constant Pattern, and so the Answers to our Creation could be staring us in the face with David.
"in a low exposition narrative characters do not say things merely for the sake of it. "
Absolutely i think that the Dialog and what we hear or are told gives more clues to what Visually we are shown. And some may pay more attention to the Visuals, yet these could be a Red Herring... and certainly a lot has changed Visually by what changes are made and cuts and alternative scenes.
It all comes down to personal Interpretation and the Beauty of Prometheus was it leaves it very open, were we can all have our own interpretations... indeed there was some kind of PLAN to how things may have gone, but we see things are constantly evolving. The Plot Change to David creates the Xenomorph is a Prime Example. Something that could be changed in response again to Fans not being HAPPY..
"I would caution anyone to make definitive assertions on what is obvious and is rather common knowledge"
@BioDegradable
Certainly that is a big point, the Movies are a bit vague and open to interpretations and NO matter what Plan/Objective they had, things can CHANGE as they go along... The Portrayal of the Engineers after we had Alien Covenant is different to a degree to what those Engineers were at the time of Alien Engineers, which changed somewhat by the Time Lindeloff came and re-worked the Plot. We need only WONDER how many changes are made by the time Paglen, Green, Harper and Logan had made, certainly the Starting Point A (Paglen) to End Point Z (Logan) would have had a number of Plot Changes.
I find it unlikely that at Point A which would have been somewhat a continuation of ideas Lindeloff and Ridley Scott had discussed.. would have led us to a Dr Shaw with so little Screen Time and a Xenomorph Created by David.. but this just shows how much things change.
We can all try and are entitled to our own oppinions and trying to figure out this and that, and have our own ideas of where it could or should have gone... but they are all a bit MOOT as far as what we eventually get which always comes down to what those who PAY $$$$ to Produce the Movies think is BEST.... hence the RS comment "they want $^$&%* Aliens i will give them £!$"%^£^ Aliens"
"For instance, lots of people think the white room we see at the start of AC has a vista of the Prometheus seeding sequence. Is that so? If so, how certain is that?"
Another fine example of how people can read into something thats not intended to mean anything too deep.. I believe the Scene, is just as with the Nativity Painting its to connect to us that the Scene is about Davids Creation, the Nativity Painting is to show us that David just as Jesus is not a Traditional Human, he is different, Enhanced and Special. The Backdrop that matches the Prometheus Sacrificial Scene is there to make a Connection, that this is about a CREATION Event. Its Symbolic nothing more, nothing less... well IMO.... but it had lead some to speculate that Weyland must have been to Planet 4 or know exactly were we was Created From....
The Mural is another one.. in Prometheus.. it was not there to merely be COOL... it was there to in part be a Tribute to Giger, a Easter Egg and in part to contain some link so we can make a connection that the Xenomorph, and Engineers Experiments are connected. It was vague, and many elements where never meant to have any deep connection, the Face Huggers/Engineers merely a Easter Egg, the Mural itself to bring some vague Xenomorph/Deacon connection that adds some Visual WOW to a Set... so yes to LOOK COOL.
Yet it has been a Topic of Hot Debate over the years... yet it merely could be a Red Herring... Ultimately it allows for many interpretations on how the Engineers, Xenomorph, Black Goo and Deacon are connected. But regardless of how we all interpret these connections and the Mural, the Question has to be was there any real DEEP Reason for it and that seems to be NOT REALLY.
Also again as Thoughts_Dreams mentions sometimes its what we DONT see off screen that lets us imagine the worst.
I think we also need to look at the Xenomorph as it is...
When we first Encounter it (Alien not AC lol) we had to ask what was the Purpose of those Eggs?
Was it some kind of Alien Organism the Space Jockey Encountered and attempted to take away to Study/Re-Engineer (similar to the Star Beast Plot)...?
The Answer even as far back as after Alien appeared to be NO.... it was not Coincidence the Xenomorph and Derelict shared a Aesthetic and so it was indicated (and confirmed by RS) they was both Created by the Space Jockey Race for the Purpose of WAR... a Bio-Weapon and means to Deploy it.
With such a ROLE, it limits the scope for how SCARY the Xenomorph is, where its only its appearance, the way it KILLS and Procreates that is what makes it Fearful...
Once we have been shown this, there is only so much you can show of it, before it becomes nothing special...
It is then the Purpose and Agenda behind WHO and WHY would someone Create Such Horrific Bio-Weapons that becomes the more Sinister Objective... Hence the Prequels Plot to show the Engineers did it.... changed to David did it.
Thus there is only so much Snarling, Face Hugging, Chest Busting and Killing that can be done before it gets Stale/Repetitive and with NO History/Agenda for the Organism apart from being a Engineered Creation intended to Destroy... it really limits how FAR and how MUCH we can show the Xenomorph over and over.
This is where you have to Evolve the Organism, have them become Sentient and intelligent and basically do with them what has been done with APES in the PLANET OF THE APES.
Maybe they can Evolve on there own? But to what Level and how long would it take?
Having a Plot were someone attempts to Re-Engineer and Harness the Organism, at a Great Hubris that allows them to Create a Variant that then goes on to Evolve into some kind of Sentient Species with a Agenda, Goal and Conquest is maybe the ONLY way to go.
This may take away some of its Natural Killer Instinct and Feral Nature.... but thats maybe a Sacrifice thats needed.
I think some of Blomkamps ideas could be the way to GO... if done right, but certainly ditch the Ripley, Newt and Hicks and Retcon Alien 3 concept!
The only other way is something FRESH which the Prequel ideas had, but NO soon as Prometheus 2 became a ALIEN Prefix... then Fans are going to expect the Xenomorph to play a LARGE Role!
