Comments (Page 54)

https://youtu.be/1Jhr2nVi9Xc

This new topic and the video from the link above are a great homage to the excellent prequels of the Alien 1979 movie. The YouTube video is an excellent retrospective of the Alien Covenant 2017 movie. Five years have passed and i think the love for the movie has increased in the fandom.

@Raiken Sigma, Welcome to the forums!

To build off your comment I agree I'm a bit hesitant to be optimistic regarding the Cailee Spaeny casting since her performance in Pacific Rim: Uprising didn't do anything for me - however I was skeptical of Katherine Waterston's casting in Alien: Covenant and she ended up delivering a solid performance. 

As for the female lead topic in general, it's an iconic Alien trend and I think the connection between the female lead and the Alien essence go hand-in-hand more intimately than a male character would, imo. The undertones of creationism and evolution are mirrored by a woman's unique and exclusive ability to create and support life. The maternal instincts to protect her crew / loved ones are more prevalent in female characteristics as well rather than male ones - which tend to take a more sigma approach in many leadership roles. Furthermore the Alien can't be beat by brute force, its always needed to be outsmarted and in many cases females have a cunning edge in survival situations whereas men (I being one) tend to rely on force to overcome an adversary - perhaps I'm generalizing and biased in my assumptions but that's a few reasons why I think the female lead works so well with Alien specifically.

The downside with continuing the female lead trend in Alien is each one will always be compared to Sigourney Weaver's Ripley and so far, none of them have measured up to the badassery Sigourney brought to the character and the role. So, I guess it's a double edged sword, on one hand the female lead is an iconic trend of the franchise and lends more suspense to the plot but the legacy of Ripley we expect them to live up to is a high bar to reach.

Either way, I'm intrigued and happy to see another Alien movie in production.

hey never got a white Blonde or a white Redhead protagonist yet.

Gotta say this working title is kinda funny, reminds me of the working title for The Force Awakens - "Blue Harvest". I've not seen this Fede Alvarez films, but i'm hearing he's quite talented in the horror/suspense area. Gotta say i'm really not liking the main casting choice of Callie Spaney, yet another White Brunette as lead of a ALIEN film, boring. 

    Can't we have a guy for once? Or if it has to be a Woman still, they could atleast make it interesting and casting someone ethnic. We don't get many Asian women cast in especially sci fi movies. If it were me i'd have cast the Indian woman from the ANDOR series, i liked her. 

   In all honesty i'm none too interested in this new ALIEN Film Reboot, imo rebooting ALIEN is sacrilidge, especially when we still havnt had the main canon universe completed yet, through a proper connection of Ridley's prequels to his O.G. Alien Film of 79. 

    Another thing i keep thinking is, what other totally original design can you do for a whole NEW "Xeno/Alien"?? The Deacon and Neomorph from Prometheus and Covenant were outstanding designs, felt very kind of primitive. 

  I don't know what to think of this, what if it ends up like Terminator Dark Fate!? Or the Recent Resident Evil tv series on Netflix; where it's like mostly unrecognizable to ALIEN. 

Yeah this is the Alien forum, we talk about Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection, Prometheus, and Alien Covenant.... and sometimes Alien vs Predator since the AVP forums no longer work properly

Uhh, then you posted this topic on the wrong forum. You should post it in the Godzilla Forums like the Topic "Gigan=Fat".

yes

Are you referring to Titanus Doug?

Umm, Hydra. This is the Alien forums, not the Godzilla forums. Since you are new, I should probably remind you that Scified has multiple forums. Each from one topic to another.

“Please get the human characters right, and no focus on androids. As long as they do this, I guess that it’ll be alright”.

I couldn’t agree more. With Prometheus and Alien Covenant the focus wasn’t on the engineers (or convincing human behaviour) but on feelings, identity and existential questions set in space (the latest trend in sci-fi-cry movies) even from an android’s perspective who just turned out to be yet another good ‘ol cliche evil scientist type in the end anyway. 

Do the characters right. Establish who they are, their background and their professional role. How would they act realistically in different scenarios? Don’t give them stupid dialogue and if something is introduced as an important, perhaps even central plot element (engineers) follow it through and wrap it up smoothly instead of abandoning it, or don’t introduce it at all in the first place. Try to tell a coherent story, keep the audience guessing at times but don’t let the latter replace the storytelling completely to the point where almost nothing makes any sense. 

I'm disappointed that the Alien TV series isn't going to be set after ALIENS/ALIEN 3 nor Alien Resurrection. The EARTH WAR plot won't work if its set prior to ALIENS, this just feels like a repeat of Alien vs Predator (2004) but with Prometheus tech

Well looks like we are getting Cyborgs in the TV series...maybe?

Welp, looks like Halley's series if Shoehorned into canon will make a new ALIEN era

This is why I like the Dark Horse Alien Comics

The xenomorphs being on earth was set after ALIENS, Earth War trilogy (Outbreak, Nightmare Asylum, and Female War) was set in 2192-2195 range. They also tempted to weaponize the xenomorphs through conditioning the queen but it failed spectacularly in Nightmare Asylum.

Later on the Corporations (Weyland-Yutani included) experimented with hybridization roughly around the same time they were making xenomorph-synthetics 

The Dark Horse Comics were all part of the same continuity until Fire and Stone reboot then later Marvel Alien comics;

I think something to take into Consideration with COMICS... is they are released more Frequent and in Greater number than the Movies. And with the Comics instead of Churning out the SAME kind of Xenomorph they do Time to Time try and Change it a BIT so that those who Read them are NOT going to be Dealing with the same THING each time.  So you then get sometimes things that are for the WOW or COOL Factor.....

I think you can Experiment and get away with such Changes with Comics, and the Comics can kind of be their OWN like Alternative Stories that the Events do-not always have a Direct Connection or Effect on each other.  Something you DONT really get to DO with the Movies.

Some Fans would Welcome certain Variants of Xenomorph, for me i try to think about how Plausible such Changes are than to MERELY throw them out for the COOL FACTOR....   There was some Concepts for some ALIEN V Projects that seemed OK and some were just a BIT ODD.... unless the Explanation for then are Mutations.... and well if this Red Harvest Concept was to deal with going back to the Derelict after the Destruction of Hadleys Hope and the Eggs had became Contaminated with Radiation then YEAH i guess the Mutations would make Sense. As with Alien Resurrection we saw the Various Mutated Ripleys and i think as these were Attempts at trying to Separate Xeno DNA and Human then some Mutations would occur.

I think some Different Xenomorphs depending on WHAT they are Merged with so if the Company has DNA of the Xenomorph and are Attempting to Cross-Hybrid with other Species then i think YEAH we could get Variants like that.

We can ASSUME that the Xenomorph will Change its Form depending on the HOST we have NOT explored this in Depth in the Movie Franchise.... only with the Runner from Alien 3 and so we can Assume that a Xeno-Embryo/Spores that Infect a Shark would Produce something that is Aquatic and Xeno-like... or a Horse we would get something like the Runner but maybe Larger? (but the Alternative Origin of the Runner was a Larger Cattle).

I just think you have to be Careful of doing things too much COMIC BOOK just for a COOL FACTOR... in Terms of ON-SCREEN.

With a Movie its a Case of WHAT do we do that we have NOT really done before?

We have NOT gone to a Xeno-Homeworld or a World that has been OVERRUN with them where we would see Hundreds of them...but this is where you have to be Careful.... it would be STUPID to show Humans going down to a World full of Thousands of Eggs if they KNEW what was in Store....so you would have to have the Explorers not have any Idea of what is DOWN their Until its Too-Late so things would have to be LESS OBVIOUS... as FAR as seeing Xenomorphs and Strange things before a Exploration Mission has Explored the World and become Stranded.

We have NOT seen the Xenomorphs on Earth which i think in doing so could be RISKY.... Unless its on a Research Outpost on some Island or Very Remote Location... but the TV Show seems to be bringing them into a City Type Environment and so i think thats a BIG RISK..... apart from some Fans who may LOVE such a Idea of Xenomorphs running Rampant around Cities... which would be NOT so BAD if it was NOT to be SET like 25 Years before ALIEN.

With Comics and Video Games and Novels you have more Freedom to take Risks and be Adventurous without as much Consequences if the Product becomes something that is NOT too GOOD.... with the TV Series and more so MOVIES then it becomes something more Risky.

Maybe sticking to the BASICS/CORE is more Less Risky...... but its  a case of can we Basically see another Aliens/Alien R type Movie over and over.. (not saying Aliens is Bad... Aliens was HOW to do a Good Action... but to PULL IT OFF say over and over is a BIG ASK).

The Xenomorph is a NASTY and Deadly Killing Machine... but its something maybe just as if NOT more so Limited than a Terminator which is another Deadly Killing Machine.... its can you have 3 Movies about the Xeno or 3 TV Seasons about them as in SHOWN in the way we have seen so FAR...

Which would be Similar to say if Scientist had Created a 8ft Wasp, Bee or Ant etc. By that their AIM is to Procreate and Survive and with the Xenomorph they require a HOST to do so and so this does make them more Interesting and Horrific than Giant Ants.... but there would be ONLY so much Egg Laying, Face Hugging, Chest Bursting.... Host Collecting and Killing that you can keep showing (in my Opinion anyway).

Ridley Scott had taken a U-Turn of Sorts on the Xenomorph from that it was COOKED... the Last Thing he had to say about them is you can go a FEW more Rounds with them.... but you have to EVOLVE them and look at ALTERNATIVE ways of Procreation.

Natural Evolution? Or a Engineered/Interfered One?

I think we should be looking at WHAT is there to GAIN from the Xenomorph?

Why NOT go and USE like Synthetics... or Create like Terminator Robots for Military Purposes?  In case they REBEL?

The Xenomorphs are HARD to Control.... they become a Invasive Pest if they are NOT kept in Check and HOW can you do this?   Maybe by Implanting some Device that can Control them or has a KILL SWITCH? It seems some of Blomkamps Alien V ideas had this.

For me though the Xenomorph has NOT a lot of USE for Military Application.... not VS the Risk.... so we have to look at WHAT ELSE is to be Gained!

And to me then RIPLEY 8 has to be the Biggest Benefit and END GAME.

Well the majority of the comics were written by Dark Horse Comics, a better comic book company than uninspired Marvel Comics

Thank you very much

prometheus is a important  movie .he tell us about the origins of the aliens franchise.thus engineers who become evil and threaten humanity .we have to be aware from  alien civilisations that want to make a contact with  us... they are not all a friendly..

@Thoughts_Dreams

In regards to my Comment "The Ideas that RS had are simply to BIG and BOLD for a lot of the Fans who would prefer something more SIMPLE and POPCORN"

I did a Reply on this on this Topic HERE

I think that YES it would have been NICE to see more of the Engineers, but they was becoming a Distraction from the Xenomorph... you would STRUGGLE to make a Movie that would have Xenomorphs, and Engineers as well as Human Characters, PLUS then to Expand on the Character of David who RS saw as the Focus... we would have had to GIVE like David a Lesser Role.... also you would NOT be able to JUGGLE the Engineers and Xenomorphs if you was to EXPLORE more of the Engineers.

Beyond the CORE of them just as Military Types who are Intend on using the Xenomorph to Rule the Galaxy.... Sacrificing the Depth to WHY and more so Expanding what else to the Engineers do other than FLY those BOMBERS.

So maybe STICKING to the Basics and Core is BEST.... 

But you will HIT a WALL down the Line with the Limitations... the Predators are another Example...

COOL ALIEN RACE... they Look ACE, they have Cool Tech and Weapons.. but the CORE we have seen is they go to Worlds to HUNT... take Trophies and then GET their ASSES out of DODGE!

What else do they DO... is their Hunting their ONLY Agenda?  Whats the Home-world like?  Have they Many Worlds, what about History and Religion, and are they at CONFLICT with anyone?

You could Expand these..... but it could be a case of would this DISTRACT from the CORE of what we have seen in the Franchise... maybe could lead to what we had with the Prequels... by trying to DIG DEEPER into the Space Jockey beyond the Basics.

As FAR as to Replace the Xenomorph (Xenotaris) i think you could do so, but then you may UPSET some Fans if you STEER AWAY from the Xenomorph Aesthetic too much... so you have to be Careful.

For me i think the Xenomorph has a Limited Life-Span (Shelf Life) before it becomes Repetitive but for some Fans this is OK if you make them more Comic Like in Terms of Evolve them to like we seen in Video Games. But while i say that and it may APPLY to myself... the Xenomorph for Many has a Great Shelf Life i mean it SELLS look at the Many Toys, Comics and Games... i think it needs to be Changed a BIT... which the Comics and Games have tried.

I am just NOT sure it would WORK as Well as Far as Longevity on the Big Screen or TV Show... because then we are going like Starship Troopers where we have to WATCH as Mankind Struggles against a ever EVOLVING HORDE of ALIENS and its WHAT can Humanity do to Survive.

Can you PULL this OFF for like 3 more Movies or more?  Maybe NOT if its ALIENS vs HUMANS.

Can you PULL it off for like more than 3 Seasons of TV Show?  If i USE say the WALKING DEAD as a Example.... having 11 Seasons where Humans are just trying to Escape from Zombies would NOT work.....

Its the Human Aspect that makes it Work, its when you look at WHAT LENGTHS that other Humans would GO against their OWN KIND to Survive... those who SELFISHLY take Advantage of the Situation (Zombie Apocalypse).

And so the ALIEN Franchise has to look at this.... WHAT can Humans Gain from the Xenomorph..... this has NOT been Explored in Depth because every TIME we see the Humans try and Obtain the Xemomorph before they can Experiment in Depth on them..... they Basically get DONE IN by the Xenomorph.

Its a Case of Humans become the Bigger Threat to ourselves... as Ripley had said when she said you DONT see them (Xenomorphs) Screwing Each other over.  Ridley Scott was attempting to look at the Threat of Humanity being just Cause for the Engineers to Create a Horrific Pest Control....  also looking into Creating A.I that becomes Sentient like Humans and HOW BIG a Threat this was.

So i think you CAN go and Change the Xenomorph but if you do it too much or eventually you give something NEW were the Xenomorph is NO-MORE then you will have some Fans who will NOT be Happy.... but at the same Time you cant keep going on the Route like Starship Troopers.... you have to look at WHAT and WHY the Humans or A.I would USE the Xenomorph.

There HOWEVER...is NO such thing as ONE FAN TYPE... we all have likes and Dislikes and its a Case of trying to CATER for them... which is HARD and its were they DISNEY have to Cater for the Majority.

The TASK is to Figure out as to WHAT the Majority would want.  And so sticking to the BASICS and CORE is the SAFE BET... its a Case of HOW MUCH of a Shelf Life as FAR as TV and Movies does this have?

Time will TELL i suppose.

"When you say that it, reads to me that the audience weren't smart enough"

It could come across as that so maybe its the WRONG choice of Words by me.

What i mean is that ALIEN and the Franchise had a more SIMPLE BASE, the Monster was SIMPLE to a Degree, its Story was a Mystery... The Prequels had began to give Clues but these were NOT like Simple.... trying to Figure Out what the Connection was is something thats not Simple and requires too much Debate which maybe for some Fans is just STRAYING AWAY from the Simplicity of the Xenomorph as seen in ALIEN/ALIENS.

Trying to Over-complicate the Origins maybe is something that will DRIVE AWAY from using the Xenomorph in its more Simple Form that Worked.

When i talk about the BIG and BOLD Plot i am talking about the Creation Arc, the Mutiple Layers of this and Reasons for doing this (Sub-Create) and the Hubris in doing this Especially if you Creates something Dangerous that is HARD to Control or Contain.. but more so something that can become SENTIENT.

I was talking about HOW some of these IDEAS would have gone on to Cover things that are NOT like Connected to a Egg, Face Hugger to Monster that KILLS... but to look at Reasons behind NOT just it, but more so Broader Creation something that would have Covered more about Creator/Creation and the MANY WAYS this could be Explored and NOT about the Xenomorph or Similar.

These Ideas where BIGGER and more BOLDER than the Concept that Revolves around our ALIEN in ALIEN and ALIENS when we look at the Life Cycle and its Consequences. With Ridley Scott he Felt we had seen ENOUGH of the Beast and ONCE you had shown HOW/WHEN it was Created its WHATS THEN?

He Felt that asking the WHO and WHY as in the Creation of the Xenomorph was more Important than the Xenomorph, and that ONCE you Answer this its then WHAT DROVE them to this... and WHAT ELSE have they or Could they Create and on Multiple Layers... which would STEER AWAY from the ALIEN from the Franchise.

A Bold Way to Expand the Franchise to Explore Aspects that are AWAY from our Chest Bursting Fiend.... a Bold Plot that a SINGLE 2 HOUR MOVIE is NOT enough to Cover.... 

But these Ideas would have taken us to something that would be a SPIN OFF that is NOT going to Center Around the Xenomorph and become something of a Distraction and so something a LOT of the FANS would maybe NOT be interested as it STEERS away from the CORE ASPECT of the Xenomorph.... so its a Case of the Direction and Outcome may have been something that would NOT be the Majority of Fans like CUP OF TEA.... rather than being too Complex for the Fans as in they are STUPID...

So im not trying to say the Fans are NOT like Clever enough, i am saying that the Ideas of RS and the Prequels would Deter from the CORE of the ACTION of the Franchise that MOST of the Fanbase seem to Prefer.

Thats not to say there is just ONE KIND of Fan, with Each Movie there was a New Breed of Fan or they gave Older Fans something they either LIKED or Disliked.... sometimes this Changes a Little with Generation..... but even before those who were Born after the MID-90S then in General the TAKE by ALIENS is what is the more Preferred Incarnation of ALIEN MOVIE.

And so the Direction that RS may have gone would LIKELY had been something that this Majority may NOT have enjoyed, Especially if as it Expanded the ROLE of the Xenomorph became LESS than a Footnote....

But to be Fair to him his Intentions was to give us a NEW FRANCHISE thats in the Same Universe that would EXPLORE who the Space Jockey was (And Creation and Quest for Immortality) and STEER away from the Xenomorph he was NOT trying to CHANGE the ALIEN CORE as in Xenomorph, he had intended to leave this to Mystery of Sorts.

Unfortunately Prometheus just was NOT enough of a Connection to ALIEN for some and for WHAT the Studio then Felt they should have gave more about the Xenomorph... but YES the Movie had its other Failings even if we LOOK at it as a Stand Alone.

And so going back to the TOPIC of a NEW MOVIE... i think its back to the CORE, but then i think its a case of HOW MUCH can you do about the Xenomorph?  But there will always be the Fan Base that are more into the Comics, Video Games, ALIENS and the Action... and this kind of Action and Sticking to the CORE is what Draws the MARVEL Fanbase....

I think RS ideas for Prometheus should have been to GIVE us something thats NOT set in the ALIEN Universe.....  

*Different Company Name and Owner.

*Engineers who do-not have as much of that Space Jockey/Derelict Aesthetic.

*ALIEN World Location FAR away and not LV* Prefix.

Maybe this could then had been its OWN kind of Stand Alone Franchise... but it still had Flaws... but it has HUGE SCOPE and Potential.... Dragged Down by the Shackles to ALIEN.

PS... thats not me saying i Dislike the ALIEN Franchise... ALIEN is a Great Film, and ALIENS is a Good Film.. the Rest are SO SO..   with Prometheus it was a Great Idea... the Execution a bit off and too SHORT... but Main Failings was Character Depth.  But Alien R, AVP, AVPR and well most the Predator Franchise has the same Problem....  the First Movie and PREY being the Exception.

"What about in-between ALIEN and ALIENS?"

Yeah thats a OPTION.... I have spoken about this before Years ago on here ;)

The Basis of that Discussion was the Entrance the Jordans had Entered, it was a Hole in the HULL of the Derelict that seemed to me a LIKELY kind of Explosion.  From the overall way that the Damage had looked and so this did LEAD to us to Speculate if someone had been back between ALIEN and ALIENS.

Regarding the ASPECTS that make ALIEN what it is... i know you have said on a Number of Occasions that NO XENOMOPRH is like having Godzilla Movies without GODZILLA.... i can see your Point as YES for MANY of the Fans the Xenomorph is Synonymous with the Franchise.

With ALIEN it was about the ALIEN... with ALIENS we had more than ONE of them, but this is when they was Called the Xenomorph... ALIEN 3 was about the ALIEN again and Alien Resurrection... they Resurrected them... plus Ripley who is the other thing that was Synonymous with ALIEN.

To me you DONT  have to have Ripley for a ALIEN MOVIE.... but i agree a ALIEN MOVIE that has NO XENOMORPH for most Fans would just NOT be a ALIEN MOVIE.

Prometheus was a Connecting Movie that would be Loosely Connected but it was NOT intended to be a Direct Connection to the First Movie, it had NO ALIEN as per Xenomorph.... but Hence the TITLE not being ALIEN... Originally the Prequel had a ALIEN Prefix with Alien Engineers and this did have the Xenomorph in it.  And Alien Covenant likewise had the Xenomorph and so YES if you do a Movie without the Xenomorph then its going to have some Fans Question as to WHY if there are NO Xenomorphs.

But i guess as LONG as you offer something that has a Connection/Root to the Xenomorphs or a Variation of them as LONG as its NOT like too FAR removed from the Original Forms we saw in the First 4 Movies then i think we can still call it a ALIEN MOVIE.  The thing is that Prometheus had done this but in a Subtle Manner where the Clues/Connection was too Vague and NOT like Spoon Fed and the Monsters were NOT that Aesthetically close, compared to say the Neomorph.

With Regards to Thoughts_Dreams comments about Birds... its kind of a Valid Point... with yours regarding the Variants of MANY these are Comic/Video Game versions for the Most Part.  some of which i think make NO SENSE to a Degree... because we seem to LOOK BEYOND the Basics.

(1) If the Xenomorph in its PURE FORM is those Eggs, then the Face Huggers will Infect a Host and we get our Xenomorph.... the HOST will Determine what the Xenomorph may look like as the Parasite uses some of the HOSTS DNA to HELP it be suited to its Environment. The Limitation here is the Parasite is Limited to WHAT it can Infect.... so anything Smaller than say a Guinea Pig i would Assume would Yield NO Results.  And it would seem Unlikely that a Infected Guinea Pig will Produce a Xenomorph-Form thats Larger than a Dog.

(2) If we look at the Pathogen or Spore method... or indeed the somewhat New Canon that the Face Hugger simply Injects Spores not a Embryo... then Infecting something Smaller could Potentially Occur... but again if this Infected a Insect or Spider then its a Question of HOW LARGE would this Grow?

HOWEVER.... if we look at the Parasite as something that Evolves to its Environment or to IMPROVE itself.... then Evolving/Developing some Traits to AID its ability to Procreate and Survive cant be RULED OUT.  And so to Develop say WINGS or to Develop like a Mantis Forelegs (Raptorial Legs) is something that cant be Ruled out....

As FAR as them having Naturally Different Species... i dont think we can PUT them in the Class like a Dog or a Bird or a ANT but something more Varied and Broader... and so like how a Ant and Wasp are from the Hymenoptera Order then i think YES maybe we could Explore the Xenomorph like this.

Regarding the Comparison of a Xenomorph vs Neomorph as in Comparing Variants of Ants i am not sure that Quite Works like this, as the Neomorph came from the Pathogen.... which Evolves things a bit Different but there is a CONNECTION.... just maybe something we cant Compare to a Natural Evolution like with Insects...  but as Potentially all these ALIENS are Connected to the Pathogen, combined with a Natural Fast Evolution then there are MANY Possibilities regarding Organisms that have a Common Ancestor of which the Pathogen is a PART of.

Yes but Owls, Canadian Geese, and Humming Birds are more diverse than deacons and neomorphs. The xenomorph has a wide variety of forms based on what host they burst from.

But you haven't answered my last questioned, what should the new "xenomorph" replacement should look and operate like because so far the xenomorph relatives operate just like a xenomorph with some minor differences. If you want a replacement beast it should contrast the xenomorph in all aspects.

With all due respect, the dog analogy kind of contradicts your statement for a new beast because the xenomorphs operate on the different dog breed analogy. Hear me out.

With xenomorphs, you various different breeds like dogs and cats. Larval stages aside: You got Drones, Runners, Warriors, Crushers, Spitters, Preatorians, Queens, Empress, Queen-mother, Ravagers, Prowlers, Bursters (Not to be confused with chestbursters), Flying Queens, Flying warriors, Dragons, Carriers, Boilers, Palatine, Snake-Aliens, Boar-Aliens, Bull-Aliens, Scorpion-Aliens, Mantis-Aliens, clawed xenomorphs, Ultramorph/Jockey-Aliens, etc.

The xenomorph relatives are less like different species of bird and more like different species of ant. To me the xenomorph, neomorph, and the deacons have more similarities than differences much like ants. The xenomorph is like the common variety ant like the Black Garden Ant, the neomorph are more like Pharaoh Ants, and the Deacons are like Trap-Jaw Ants

BD: OK, so artificially created humans, seems a bit too much like RBW for me. Maybe it just ignites my dislike of that series if they will try something similar, and therefore throw crap on the alien-franchise. Perhaps if they'll get enough of the characters right and keep the alien-ness of it, that might work but I’m afraid that it’ll be too much like Blade Runner. Honestly I'm more worried than excited, especially with Scott in it.

I don't think that a spin-off series would be bad because it gives you more free space so to speak, and not be tied to what came before. Try new things and see how it goes. My interest is bigger towards that, than if they would announce a third prequel.

You mention in 1) a number of questions. I’m not sure if those need to be answered, not that they are dumb questions, but because there need to be some mystery in the franchise. Without some mystery, the fun is gone. One of the fun things is to imagine what could have been. A lot of the times your own answers are better than what the movie gives (prequels is an example). Maybe some of them can be answered, but then you got to come up with new mysteries that are smart, interesting, and that make sense. The pathogen is a fascinating thing that was introduced, but I think that they should leave it alone, no answers given. Sometimes I wonder about its origins, how it works, what it could create and so on, but I really don’t need that to be answered because it gives you less to think about

“D) Some kind of NEW and Unconnected Alternative Story/Plot or a Reboot of Sorts.”

Of all the alternatives, this seems the most interesting to me. If you try to come up with new things, you expand the franchise and keep it alive. Try to avoid the same old, been there done that sort of.

“1) Some Engineered Organism by either David or the Engineers/Space Jockey or other Race.
2) Some Natural Organism that Exists in the Cosmos that the Engineers/Space Jockey had attempted to Re-Engineer and then David too.
3) Something that has a Viral Origin or where the Pathogen is shown to have come from and that its USE will always eventually lead to the Xenomorph.”

The only alternative that I dislike of those is that it's something that David has got to do with. It makes it too close to human activity. Don't let humans directly or indirectly be responsible for the Xeno. Alien Covenant sort of did this, and that was one of the most disappointing things in the franchise to me.

Scott was alright for saying that you got to come in with new things, unfortunately he decided to replace the monsters with android-babbling which was very disappointing.

“the Prequels had Big Ideas that were too BOLD for the Fans”

I don't think that the ideas is what the fans were against, for me at least. When you say that it, reads to me that the audience weren't smart enough. Just because you like a movie doesn't make you a professor. Obviously, I'm not aiming this at you personally, but it annoys me if someone would have that attitude just because they like a movie. My dislike was that there were too few characters to care for, and that it became about the androids.

Xenotaris

Well, reduce the role of the androids (not get rid of them totally). As far as the Xenos are concerned, try to add things to their family-tree. They don't need to be Xenos, but maybe (and hopefully) far related relatives. Let's take birds, there are different kinds of birds (you can take dogs as an example too) so why can't the same be used for the Xeno-family? I would rather see something new, or a new variation of something, than the same thing over and over again.

BD:

Oh, I honestly believe that many of the ideas in Prometheus especially were very interesting. Unfortunately, the way they were handled were clumsy. Yeah, only the first three had that character development, but many of the cut scenes would have improved that. They cut character-development for run-time, which to me is a no-no. If you have lame characters, you have a lame movie, no amount of interesting ideas can save that. AR was cartoonish

“The other Issue is that i dont think MANY of the Fanbase would want to see the Xenomorph relegated to a Lesser Role... The Ideas that RS had are simply to BIG and BOLD for a lot of the Fans who would prefer something more SIMPLE and POPCORN.”

It depends on the execution, you can make it a bit different and as far as I know many liked the Engineers. You have people that are traditional Xeno-ists, but I also think that there are people that would like to see expanded things, but probably not see it taken over by a disappointed android (that is where I stand). Some people like to see new ideas, but many got annoyed by the prequels being taken over by an android. To me that's a bigger problem, but I put that on Scott and Fox. Big and bold ideas? Many might found them interesting, but unfortunately the execution was poor, and it was too much about David. My point is that the fans are not to blame, but rather the execution and the focus of the movie.

They can have androids (say like David and Bishop) and cyborgs (let's take Robocop as an example), but they shouldn't be what the movie is about, because that's lame. Make them interesting and important to the story, but don't let them take over everything, like what happened in the prequels.

Xenotaris: I can imagine it being like C3PO in Star Wars, he had an important role in translating things and in that way helped the rest. I think that something similar could be used in Alien, as far as the androids go. The androids can be used in important parts but not be what it's about, just like C3PO was of importance but not The story in Star Wars.

About the relatives still being Xenomorphs I disagree. It's like birds, you have for example Owl, Humming-birds, Canada-Goose, and so on. You could have the same with the Xenos, but to call each-one a Xeno just because they are related is a bit of a stretch I think.

Yeah, I doubt that the Engineers will be in the new movies, unfortunately. My worries are that we'll get a lot of the same old, but well-done characters can make up for a lot of that. I'm not interested in seeing the monster from 1979 again.

Also another point, xenomorph relatives are essentially still xenomorphs with a different shape.

Like Big Dave said I don't think the Engineers are going to make an appearance in the newer movies.

Also what do you have in mind for a new creature to replace the xenomorphs and its relatives?

Thoughts_Dreams

Well that is a one eighty, I thought you would despised the main character being an android because they aren't human?

BigDave

What about in-between ALIEN and ALIENS? I mean it could be a self contain stand-alone movie or possibly a trilogy. Why didn't the company try their luck on LV-426 when Ripley was asleep for 57 years

Thoughts_Dreams

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around an ALIEN movie that lacks Androids and Xenomorphs. You know two aspects that make an ALIEN movie an ALIEN movie!

What could possibly replace the xenomorphs? The Neomorph and Deacon are more or less xenomorph relatives and thus follows all of the xenomorph tropes being eyeless parasitoids with an additional set of jaws. So the Prequel creatures are technically NOT new monsters but simply a variation of a classic beast.

Its no different from the Godzilla movies where Godzilla is basically the same monster with a new paint job. So tell me who could possible replace the xenomorphs?

probably lost, this post was made during the early years of this website back when it was made to promote Prometheus

Uhhh Chris, where are the links and poster concepts?

I think some of the Foundations and Ideas in the Prequels where Interesting with Potential but they were Executed a bit Poor and the Character Depth was not that Strong.... but only the First 3 Movies had that.... i mean who Cared about the Alien Resurrection Characters?

The other Issue is that i dont think MANY of the Fanbase would want to see the Xenomorph relegated to a Lesser Role... The Ideas that RS had are simply to BIG and BOLD for a lot of the Fans who would prefer something more SIMPLE and POPCORN.

But this is what SELLS.... its what has done the MARVEL FRANCHISE well and i think this is what maybe we shall see with the ALIEN FRANCHISE.

I dont think we would get to see the Engineers again... maybe we will Discover like Abandoned Ships or Architecture of theirs but i dont think we will see a ALIVE version of them again.

I think that the A.I will play a Role... we will see Synthetics, both Robotic and Organic, and i think it will be Teased of a Great Threat they could Pose, i dont see this ASPECT ever going away.... but i dont think it will STEAL the Lime-Light like David did with the Prequels.

Regarding the TED TALK a lot of this was the SET UP for Weyland and his Ambition to Create Life and Immortal Life, it would have gone HAND in HAND that his Ambition would go as FAR as his own Quest for IMMORTALITY which lead to his Downfall on LV-223.   I think this Shadows the Engineers own Quest for IMMORTALITY too that lead to their Down Fall too.

His GOAL and ways that this could Potentially be Obtained in Reality would lead to a Situation of the RICH and Privileged to have such Reward while then we have the Problem of TOO MANY like Normal Humans living Longer... while also the ADVENT of more Advance A.I that becomes Self Aware would become a Massive Risk to Humanity.

Both of these Potentials coming even Regardless of EVER going to LV-223/426, but what we got was going to these Places in Search of the First Thing (Immortality) leads to the Chaos caused by the Second Thing (A.I)

These things seem to be something the TV Series will touch upon.... but who knows what the MOVIE will Focus on... i have Discussed this in the Thread about the Movie.

"What would you like to see in the franchise to keep it alive? Do you mean the monster itself? The role it has?"

Well it Depends on HOW and WHAT the Movie has for WHAT the Xenomorph is!

1) Some Engineered Organism by either David or the Engineers/Space Jockey or other Race.

2) Some Natural Organism that Exists in the Cosmos that the Engineers/Space Jockey had attempted to Re-Engineer and then David too.

3) Something that has a Viral Origin or where the Pathogen is shown to have come from and that its USE will always eventually lead to the Xenomorph.

From what we have seen so FAR in ALL the Movies which Includes the AVP ones, then i have to agree with Ridley Scotts Comment.... "there is only so much Chest Bursting and Snarling you can do"

We have a Organism that Procreates via the Stages we have seen and then it KILLS, which could be to PROCREATE its Species.....

But its then WHAT?  Do we Evolve it or Explore it to be able to Communicate? to Build Better Worlds and its own Bio-Ships? If this is done RIGHT then maybe it could work.... if its done Wrong we could have a Rubbish Merger of the BORG and the BUGS from Starship Troopers.

So i think that Ridley Scott was Correct in that you can ONLY do so much with the Xenomorph where you then have to look at WHO had Created them and WHY or for WHAT other kind of Purpose can you gain from them apart from having Deadly Killing Machines!

I think the Xenomorph has more of a Risk of being Over-saturated and Exposed.  And so while you can USE them, the Focus has to go towards WHO had Created them and WHY or WHY would someone want to Obtain them beyond using the Eggs to KILL OFF say a Target.

In HINDSIGHT the Prequels had Big Ideas that were too BOLD for the Fans and would have Lessened the Role of the Xenomorph.  The Xenomorph and LV-426 Origins including the Space Jockey should have remained a MYSTERY.

We should have gone to another World were there are Eggs... maybe this is WHAT the Movie would do... but again the Xenomorph can only be USED so much in the Capacity we have seen before it will get STALE... in my Opinion that is.

@Thoughts_Dreams

In regards to the A.I Element i think that RS was looking to touch upon it in a Number of Ways, which would also INCLUDE the Consequences of Artificially Creating Life, which is NOT just limited to Synthetic/Robotic. It seems that Noah Hawley's show will involve the Creation of Augmented Humanoids so much more closer to Replicants, who then we shall see that ONE of these will have the CONSCIOUSNESS/SOUL of ONE of the Female Lead Characters.

But in Regards to the MOVIE... we just dont have any INFORMATION.... The ONLY thing we can Guarantee is it will have the XENOMORPH and i think it will be something SIMILAR or the SAME as we have seen in the Franchise.  And that it does-not Connect to the Prequels or Ripley....  which maybe means that the Events are NOT like Directly Connected.... so that the Prequels or other Movies would NOT go and Directly Connect to the NEW MOVIE....

This Does-Not mean that it would IGNORE the Prequels... or the Franchise, its going to be Interesting as to IF/HOW it would Connect to the TV Series as this seems a BIG CONFLICT.

Here is a WAY we can look at the Potential.

1) If the Movie will NOT have the Prequels (or TV show) as Canon, then we have the Avenue to ask the Following.

*Will the Movie Cover a Visit to LV-426 and the Derelict prior to ALIEN?

*What remains of the Derelict after ALIENS and prior to ALIEN Resurrection?

*Was the Derelict the ONLY such Ship with that Cargo, was there others and WHERE are they?

*Where did the Space Jockey Obtain the Xenomorph?

2) If we have the Prequels as Canon then it Opens up the Following as well as the above!

*What becomes of the remaining Xenomorph Eggs on Planet 4 after the Events of Alien Covenant?

*What becomes of those Face Huggers that David has on the Covenant Ship and WHAT would have Proceeded where he goes Next?

*What other Horrors are on LV-223?

*What other Worlds has the Pathogen been USED ON and what has become of these?

*What is the Basis of the Pathogen and its Origin.

I do think the Emphasis would be on the Xenomorph and NOT the other kinds of Horrors in regards to the Black Goo and Engineers.

My Money would be on either....

A) We will Explore another Place/World were there are other Xenomorphs either in a Time-Line before ALIEN or after ALIENS..... which will Conflict Alien Resurrection well Potentially.

B) We will go back to LV-426 either prior to ALIEN or after ALIENS...

C) The Events will Connect to HOW/WHERE we get the Xenomorph in the TV Series and will be SET like after the TV Series Time-Line.

Or Maybe...

D) Some kind of NEW and Unconnected Alternative Story/Plot or a Reboot of Sorts.

Jonesy: I like the TED-talk, since it explains his motivations and shows that he's been interested in it for a long time. They should have had some of that in Prometheus, so it doesn't become something like he said. “Through out my life I’ve pondered why we are here” I think that is some of the lines by Weyland in Prometheus. By having something from the TED-talk you show a younger Weyland, which backs up what he says as an older person.

BD: “It seemed that RS Plan was to Explore more about A.I but in a way that gets us to look that A.I in his Opinion does-not mean ROBOTS as per say.  He saw the Replicants as A.I and i am sure he would have indicated the Engineers in Prometheus are A.I as in terms of Engineer versions of Replicants.... it would have been likely that David would have Created his OWN like META-HUMANS too…”

That seems to be too much like Raised By Wolves. As far as I can tell, the reviews of it haven't been that good. I've read about it, and it seems to be like with the prequels, good ideas but flawed execution. With Ridley involved, it seems like this would be the result… again.

“it would have been likely that David would have Created his OWN like META-HUMANS too…”

It would give too much importance to David, and we would get another Alien Covenant. It would be too much flag-waving to David… again. The type of humans that would have been created could be in it, but reduce the role of David so even if he created them he should be out of the movie after that. At least David shouldn't be the focus. Looking at Raised By Wolves, I fear that it would maybe have been mainly about Walter and David… again and we would have another disappointment. I'm afraid that this is what will happen to the TV-show too.

As far as bringing in the Xeno, that doesn't need to be the case to make it a good show. They can have new monsters and the Engineers, it depends on how it's executed. Well, a follow-up to Covenant seems very unlikely, but that is a good thing if you ask me. Some people would like to see a follow-up, but then the alien-fandom is a divided thing. I might disagree with a lot of prequel-ists, but I try to not act like I'm better than them. Maybe I went off-topic here?

You mention the Xenomorph, I think that they can have new monsters related to the Xeno but have some new things. I wouldn't mind it being Xeno-less, but have some cousins, or maybe further related... you get the idea.

My main worry is that it'll be too much about androids and that there will be weak human characters, which is what we got with the prequels. Perhaps it's for the best if Scott would stay away?

Xenotaris: It depends on how the character is written and executed and how the human characters are done. There got to be a balance, otherwise we'll get the same disappointment like we got with the prequels. Just because one of the main-characters is an android doesn't mean that it'll be bad, there are other things that matter too.

BD: I doesn't got to have the Xeno in it to be good. Focus on the story and human characters. They usually get the monsters and the look right, so I'm not worried about that. Hopefully we'll get some new monsters as a part of it.

As far as Ridley's involvement, that's where I'm worried that he will try to steer this into his android-verse. He already massed it up with the prequels and RBW. I hope that someone will tell him no, as far as affecting the story. Keep him with the art-department.

“Ridley Scott had intended the Prequels to be DIRECT CANON.…”

Fox and Scott messed it up, so I don't want them to be canon, but rather interesting failures. They can look back at them for interesting parts to have in future projects, but not be in the official alien time-line.

“ it looks like it does-not Directly Follow any Events of the Prequels or the Ripley Saga of Alien Movies.”

That's a good thing, there's time for something new. Just because they don't follow the prequels doesn't mean that they need to go back to what's 40 years old. Hopefully they'll add more things.

I wouldn't have liked Blompkamps thing or Giler and Hill’s stuff. They both ignored Alien 3, which I like. Maybe it would have been better than Alien 3, but I doubt it.

About the Alvarez-project, I hope that they take it as an opportunity to introduce new things. What they shouldn't do is to have lame human characters, an over-importance on androids, and keep it too familiar.

“My concerns is i dont think there is a LOT of Miles with the ALIEN Gimmick.... “

Have versions of it, but don't show them too much and let the focus be on other things. What would you like to see in the franchise to keep it alive? Do you mean the monster itself? The role it has?