Comments (Page 725)

Hopefully the special features on the dvd release will shed more light on these illustrations! 

Upvoted!

Upvoted!

With the story in Alien: covenant sequel focusing more on the xenomorphs and their evolution looks like the chances of the deacon returning are slim (unless fox and Ridley listen to never satisfied and butthurt fans, you never know).

At the end of AC I first thought that David was returning to LV-223 where he would continue experimenting.

We shall see.

Michelle Johnston & chli I think that's an interesting theory regarding David contributing the biomech attributes to the xeno. 

Seeing as his experiments on Paradise were in pursuit of a perfect organism,  I can see David sacrificing himself to help propagate the perfect organism - the Xenomorph. 

David believes he is superior to his creators, and by sacrificing himself to complete his organism, he creates the perfect weapon against humanity. His judgement on the Engineers of Paradise shows he is capable of genocidal acts, and likely still has a reckoning with humanity in mind, having already judged humanity as weak and unfit for survival. 

He knows from Oram that human's are insatiably curious creatures to go poking around potentially dangerous places and sticking their faces in ominous looking eggs.  He will use that to set up the derelict encounter.

And probably just out of arrogance.

While you present some great points, but as I read your post, I couldn’t help but question it.  I don’t think about androids very much, so I am in no way thinking that I am right in my post, but I thought I would just share what’s on my mind with you.  Also, I found your link to David 8 promotional material VERY interesting.  I thank you for sharing that with me.  It was well presented and informative.  VERY GOOD STUFF!!!

Okay, so….with an android, we can actually know what the android is thinking.  Humans are developing technology today which can read human thoughts and transfer that thought to an action that would imitate that motion the original thought intended.  For example, paralyzed people can move a cursor across a screen by only using their brain.  This technology would probably be similar to an android.  Someone would make a computer "brain" and transfer those ideas to motions.  The technology we have is very early in it's "life".

I could see the David in Prometheus exhibiting emotion because, after all, that David is the personal David of Mr. Peter Weyland.  I think he could be comfortable living with a David 8 with more customization because he thinks he is like a god or something.  That is probably where David got his "I am a god" attitude from.  Life father, like "son".  I don't know, but I wouldn't doubt the David we see in Prometheus is a special David just for Weyland.  Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the human traits of the surrounding people, not including Weyland, rubbed off on David.  Like love, for example from Halloway and Shaw.  David has been “alive” for a long time when we see him in Prometheus, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he had some surprises in his actions for us.  I am sure he has learned a lot since he was first built.

I think David adds the "emotional" to the interview because he is much more capable of interacting with human beings because of his emotion mapping.  That doesn't mean he can experience emotions, but he knows how to deal with emotions outside of himself from people much more efficiently and properly than previously before.  Thus, he has become less robotic and more human-like.  "like" being the key word.  So he adds at the end, the word “emotional”, because he can properly deal with the emotions of humans around him.

The Weyland-Yutani promotion goes on to say "David 8 can record, process, understand and express many complex emotions, but he will never know true human feelings such as love, grief and compassion".

I don't see how a android could feel "love, grief, or compassion" unless it was programmed to understand that emotion or unless it was allowed to learn emotions from many experiences.  What I am saying is, I don’t see how a robot could develop the chemicals not put in it to feel love on it’s own.  I am no scientist, so maybe love uses similar chemicals when comparing to other emotions David feels (if he feels).  I am sure Weyland Co. would pick chemicals for some emotions that the android wouldn’t get confused with thinking, “that’s what love feels like,” but maybe they had no choice and had to use them.  I think in humans the feeling of love comes from endorphins.  I could be wrong, but I am not going to fully research it because it is complicated. 

I think it would do a simple diagnostic test on the androids “brain” to easily see what it is thinking or feeling.  The same goes for humans.  The person doing the test just needs to know what to look for.  For androids, they would have to also look for things that the android could be feeling but shouldn’t just to be safe and to cover the company’s rear end.  I am sure Weyland Co. did their due-diligence; otherwise, they wouldn’t have been in business to make a David 8.  Apparently Weyland Co. isn’t the only android maker after reading around, so with multiple businesses research the same problems to make money, I am sure they are all trying to do their best.

There is this device which was developed which can detect a person’s emotions using wireless signals and is 87% accurate.  By measuring subtle changes in breathing and heart rhythm, this device is claimed to be able to detect if a person is excited, happy, angry, or sad and can do so without on-body sensors.  I am no scientist, but I bet they could do a much better analysis with on-body sensors and increase the accurate percentage.  The wireless sensors could be something the androids we know in the Alien franchise use, but just better.  I am sure in the time period of David 8 and Prometheus, the technology development could easily be finished and in its perfect form.  Especially since there are androids released which can interact with human emotions.  If Weyland Co. understands the chemical processor and how it works, they will know how to understand if that android is feeling emotions.  For example, people have developed devices which can know if a human is feeling an emotion and this amazing task is done on a body that we humans did not create.  If we humans can create an android body and mind, I am sure we would know how to understand how to read it’s emotions through a computer.  We can do that with ourselves, so why not with something we actually created (down to the smallest piece).

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/09/160921093924.htm

“You probably assume that if someone repeatedly seeks a specific experience they probably enjoy that experience. If someone avoids a specific experiences, it probably causes them suffering.”

I don’t believe that since there is this thing that bothers me everyday and I do nothing to change.  I hate this thing, but I do nothing.  I even think that if people look at me, would they assume I have no interest in that thing.  I think they might or might not, but the truth is, I have a VERY strong interest in that thing.  The problem is I don’t know how or I can’t solve it.  It’s complicated, so I’ll just leave it there.  I know that just because someone doesn’t do something for a short time or over a long time doesn’t mean that they do not enjoy that thing because that thing could be on their mind a lot. 

As you describe Walter and Bishop having emotions, I might agree, but as Weyland Co. has claimed, the David 8 cannot feel love, grief, or compassion, so Walter should not be able to fall in love with Daniels.  He knows what love is, but doesn’t actually feel it.  I wouldn’t be surprised if he could play the part of a lover and we may or may not notice; that’s if he thought it should be done of course.  I am sure it would be a logical decision.  In Alien: Covenant, David thinks he knows what love feels like, but he is all over the place in his kissing.  He isn’t very good at deciding to kiss at the right moments.  I mean, he JUST met Daniels and now he’s kissing her on the lips some hours later.  Maybe David is a slut?  Probably not… He is probably just trying to understand what love feels like.  I guess he thinks if he can do the moves at the right time, then he must know what love feels like or something.

I am not to sure what to think though about emotions and androids.  You introduced me to a lot of new information and I thank you for that.

That's about right. The one in Prometheus was just a little over 7'. They are not giants. The actor who played the Engineer in the Juggernaut was 7' 1" tall.

He is still on a base on the make up picture. Looks to me like your average basketball player. "Shrugs"

don't really see anything. its more when they birth does the 2nd neo have the spines. maybe if it doesn't its perhaps due to the gestation period. maybe having sensed danger the second neo erupts at an earlier stage than the first

No, he is Engineer sized. Oram is just much closer.

Do the promotional X-Rays help?  THey look a little bit different, but hard to tell if there are extra tentacles/tails/something wrapped around them.

Looking at that plastinated engineer, it looks to be almost the same height as david and oram. He is standing on some type of stand/stone.

id say if david had the means to leave the planet he would have. I think the engineers will return and walter will have a roll to play in explaining what happened but it will be interesting to see if david had convinced him to turn on humanity or not.

true n now that they r both in hyper sleep he can wake them 1 at a time. he must have something else planned for the colonists and embryos perhaps

I don't think it was a coincidence that he brought two - one for Daniels and one for Tennessee . . .

BigDave yes I forgot about Walter's handicap when it comes to being a musician. Hahaha love the Rick Allen reference.

Walter & Xeno wrote 2 news songs called:

1. Sweet hand o mine

2. David does the fingering (Instrumental - including a one handed flute solo)

hahahah   

On a serious note I don't think we can write Walter off just yet. They say in movies never write someone off until you see the body...and Walter "died" off-screen.

The "shock" revelation that Walter was actually David on the Covenant seemed far too obvious, Ridley Scott is not that stupid. Obviously he wanted to seed that doubt, but I think the true intention was for us to forget Walter possibly survived and remained on Planet 4. The question will be what Walter does next.

Beyond ALIEN there is no more Engineers, Deacons, Neomorphs etc.

just Humanity and the Xenomorph.

Its possible they are still out there but none of the subsequent films have made mention of them, so I guess we can assume the Engineers are (at the very least) dormant or diminished in capacity due to what happens between Covenant and Alien? 

sherries perhaps Walter could use the Scorpion Ship shown crashed (but intact) beyond the Engineer city??

id would agree. he has early forms of neomorph in his lab so he had to get the hosts from somewhere I would imagine.

@Michelle

If I understand you correctly, you pick David as the connecting link to the Space Jockey, the Derelict and the eggs on LV-426? An interesting theory that David unwillingly (ingesting facehugger embryos - one too much) contributes with the mechanical traits to the otherwise biological ones of the protomorph? David is on his way to eradicate mankind with the cargo hold full of xeno-eggs of his own making, but is interrupted on the way by a chestburster which pops out of him? If you are serious, that is? Leviticus 4:26. Nice! What kind of atonement? The reason? For playing God (hubris)? David made a mistake concerning Shelley but can’t he even count to three? :) . He wants to play God himself and “To create, one must first destroy”?

@BigDave

As always, you turn and twist the problems unyieldingly. Always full of facts, ideas and analyses. :) You’re great! If I understand you correctly, an engineer, returning to “Paradise” and finding it obliterated, is not angry and wants revenge but wants to study David’s creations and perishes by the content in the cargo hold and crashes on LV-426? Why did God create man when he had the angels? Because he could? :)

@Kethol:

Great pictures and a good point about the Space Jockey being much larger than the engineers. Another race? Another being?

Also, you’re right about the Space Jockey not being a fossil - it’s a skeleton preserved by the dry and cold climate, with no oxygen, of LV-426?

In Prometheus, RS changed this into being a body (whose?) inside a helmet and space suit . . .

@Ati

Great account of the juggernauts. I take it you’re not too fond of the idea that David created the xeno either? :)

@sherries

Well said!

@ali81

I agree!

@MonsterZero

Interesting alternative story. :)

Then God told David, “Come out of the Covenant. And bring the facehuggers with you so they can be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth.” So David and his family came out with all the facehuggers

Judging by the horribly desiccated look of those "charred" bodies outside, he had to have used an uninfected body for his "David" statue.

There also had to be uninfected Engineers and animals available to him, or his lab would be a bit empty :)

I like the spaights script and imo would have made a better alien movie than AC

"As you can see, my time here hasn't been wasted. It's in my nature to keep busy. Keep the mind exercised and all that, lest it fall prey to disorder from misuse." He indicated the massive body of the Engineer. "This specimen was particularly arduous to complete, and messy, you can imagine. Fortunately with thousands of examples from which to choose, I was able to practice on as many as I wished before finally getting this one right"

I don't know if I would read too much into this.  He doesn't say they were uninfected or alive, just that he had thousands to choose from.  Although judging by the "charred" bodies outside, it doesn't look like he'd be able to get as clean or fleshy of a specimen from there.

Hey! I didn't know there is an Alien botoh at SDCC! Looks like I'll be spending hours upon hours there!!! 

75% of that final script was John Spaith's though, and nearly all of his main story beats are there. A lot of the design work and effects sequences were well into the design stage before Lindelof wrote his drafts as well.

The background he wrote on the Engineers and the pothogen may very well still be in play in the movie series. I suspect that is why we it was only partially shown on the Prometheus Blu Ray.

I've been wondering how those can be used.  They basically looked like miniature facehuggers in a snowglobe.  Does it need to be placed into an egg to grow/incubate?  Or is this similar to what a regular facehugger deposits into a host (except resulting in a facehugger/chestburster)?

I think he will clone them to have as many embryos as possible.

Nice work Kethol some great images you have shared!

and will probably never get to. that's my biggest problem with AC, it was to fast paced and jumped to often without filling in the gaps

There is a whole movie there that we did not get to see.

you would wonder how, if there were thousands of survivors, why they didn't form together to take care of david

yes I also see what u mean. iv only seen the film once and didn't get a good enough look at the 2nd neo that came out the throat to see if it had spines or not. if it didn't then I would wonder why

This is what David said.

"As you can see, my time here hasn't been wasted. It's in my nature to keep busy. Keep the mind exercised and all that, lest it fall prey to disorder from misuse." He indicated the massive body of the Engineer. "This specimen was particularly arduous to complete, and messy, you can imagine. Fortunately with thousands of examples from which to choose, I was able to practice on as many as I wished before finally getting this one right"

yea would be plausible that not all engineers came to the citadel. iv not read the book yet. made the mistake of getting the hard back

from what iv read about the deleted scenes they all seem to be extended conversations and a scene where walter goes into daniels' room after her husbands death. nothing to suggest more on the citadel etc. the only thing iv heard that interests me is the extended scene 'down the stairs' or whatever its called when david takes oram into the egg chamber

That extended scene is probably just more of the dialogue that was in the book.

"wonder where the hosts came from to produce the early neomorphs."

I got the idea from something David said in the book that he had access to uninfected Engineers. They must not have all been killed in the bombing. The one he posed as Michelangelo's David looks un-deformed/uninfected. The skin on half of his face and in his hands looks clean and white as well.

It will be interesting to study the Blu Ray when it is released to see if there are any more "fused" bodies. Hard to determine from some of the screen caps we have.

yea its hard to tell. the 2 heads look more rock like to me but as I say could be either

pose: to place (someone, such as a model) in a studied attitude. to assume a posture or attitude usually for artistic purposes :)

There are several dead Engineer photos, but difficult to say for sure if this is the same process. Here is one of the night shots brightened up.

The actual props were painted a dirty yellow color.

wonder where the hosts came from to produce the early neomorphs.

sculpt:to form into a particular shape.

regardless, I would say the 2 heads could go either way. david def isn't beyond cutting the heads off these 2 and displaying it on his mantle. is there a bright enough picture of the engineers outside for comparison?