New Replies (Page 90)

"Maybe it ca be done but I don't think that making it about an android is the way to go."

I think what RS was getting us to look at is that a Sentient Synthetic Life-form who can Think and have Emotions and Desires/Ambition like a Human would they be DIFFERENT to us?   And to show that IF the Spirit is our Personality, Desires, Dreams and Emotions that would EXIST after Death and Beyond the BODY then maybe NO we have NO SOUL but Actually YES then David does have such a SOUL.

But i think for a LOT of the Fans they wanted to Explore more about the Engineers and WHAT ELSE they Create and HOW had Created them etc... to see other WORLDS and other Species etc.

I also agree that the Space Jockey should have been and should be a Race that is Connected to the Engineers and maybe even a Race above them, but then a Race they Created could also work.  Having sewn the SEEDS that the Xenomorph/Eggs are a Creation/Consequence of David is ONE thing..... to make the Space Jockey likewise would be ANOTHER MISTAKE.

I think the Engineers in Prometheus as a Clone/Genetically Engineered Sub-Creation of the Planet 4 Engineers does FIT with the Themes/Plot.

The Broad Plot is to SHOW that all the Mythos and Religions on Earth that Depicted our Creators were WE are Created in their Image is the RESULT of us Actually indeed being CREATED from THEM (Engineers) so i think it FITS that they look Very Human, they look LESS Human than Numerous Depictions of Gods/Creators in Various Religions/Mythos.

Ridley Scott was trying to SHOW us that WHILE the LV-223 Engineers may look similar to each other, the Planet 4 Engineers have some Diversity in their Appearance.  He had gone on to say that the Engineers are NOT a Race but a Civilization, and so its LIKELY they have Mixed in Races DNA that they have Created.  He also said that just as Humans can come in Many Sizes and Races then WHY CANT the same be said for the Engineers.  So YES it seems they have been made to be more HUMAN.

But this seems to be the Intended Purpose to FIT with the PLOT that is about Knowledge and Technology in Part, its to SHOW us these Engineers are NOT really Gods, they are Merely Humanoids who have the BENEFIT of being around for MANY MANY MANY Years more than us and so their Knowledge and Technology is WHAT makes them more Godlike, i guess if we had Humans from 100 Years Time go back in TIME to see the Neanderthals then we would seem as GODS to them when all we have is in Part a Genetic Advantage but more so Technology and Knowledge.

The Engineers Background has Changed as from Inception it seemed they was a Race like Humans who had Advanced on a Technological Scale and Genetic Evolution (via Genetic Manipulation) that they INCREASED for HOW LONG they can LIVE for, and they Abandoned things like Arts, Music, Entertainment, Sexual Urges and Procreation....  But eventually they became STERILE.  With Prometheus then it seems our Engineers were similar to the Concept.  But it seems that THEY have decided to make our Engineers more Human, which goes to then HIGHLIGHT that its about Knowledge and Technology that makes a Race become more Advanced/Godlike.

Our Engineers were supposed to be more Statue like, having a Glossy look to their Skin, they was also supposed to be 10-12ft Tall, but when we got to Production they Decided to GO AGAINST the USE of Special Effects to Create a 10ft Race and so we got a Downsized Race of 7-8ft Engineers.

The Prometheus Opening Scene in FULL showed the Engineer also wore those Garments, YET they Possessed Advanced Technology when Needed (Tear Drop Ship) and those on Planet 4 also had Technology/Ships too.  It seems they Ritualistically/Culturally do SHUN such Technology apart from where it is Necessary and so they are like say the AMISH people in the USA.  They do-not USE their Technology for everything, they seem to not have the Entertainment/Vices of Modern Man but they CHOOSE to LIVE a more Simplistic Ancient Way.

The Main Difference is the appearance, there is LESS of the Defined Bone-structure and Node Ridge and less Glossy/Synthetic looking Skin.

When you look at the Prometheus Engineers Skin etc, they do look like they are NOT made from the same Skin as us, so they have that SYNTHETIC look about them.... so maybe this has Changed from this being because they are GODLIKE to actually NOW being a Sub-Created Species much like David and Replicants are.

“so would anyone be INTERESTED in seeing any Arcturians either in a Movie or TV Series or at least Comics?"

If it's done well then sure. That could be an interesting way to expand the franchise, something that's needed. Do you mean that they would be a mix of humans and reptiles? You can draw inspirations from many things, like they did when they created the Xeno.

Let's say that you make a TV-show based on them and from there you can add different things and go from there. Who knows what we could end up with but it could be interesting.

“How would People Feel if they was Revealed to be ONE of the Creations of David?"

Why should everything be tied to David all off a sudden? They already damaged the prequels by making it about the android. I would like them to be their own thing so to speak, like the Engineers. Keep some mystery when you make them

That seems like an Aliens 2, it's boring. Even though the prequels were failures at least they tried something new with the characters and the monsters (Engineers and what not).

The second one from the top and down looks ridiculous, it's like he's running towards the other one because he wants a hug. Ripley and Hicks are dead, that's it.

I'm not interested in living in the past, let's move forward.

BD

“What Constitutes Creation?, a SOUL and Immortality.”

Those things are interesting but they could be difficult to handle in the alien-franchise. I don't say that these are impossible questions to handle in the franchise but it could be tricky to do them justice. Maybe it ca be done but I don't think that making it about an android is the way to go.

“I think the Space Jockey should Eventually be revealed to be a Engineer or the Race who are ABOVE the Engineers.”

Yeah, you can hint at it but don't explain it. Many people have had that image in their heads for a long time about what could have happened so no matter what you put in there to explain it, it will probably not improve in quality what people have imagined it to be. It can be done but it must be of a very good quality both visually and the writing so it's almost impossible. Those things that you mention make sense judging from what we have seen this far.

“But i SUSPECT that it would be a Creation of David…”

If Scott would have been allowed to interfere with the writing but you could also demand from him that he stays away from it. Disney could tell him to stay away from the story and handle the visuals, that would probably be for the better because it didn't work under Fox. Let David have a minor role in the third prequel to in a way make up for Prometheus and Covenant.

Either sacrifice themselves or improve themselves could work. I’m still interested in how they got from those on Planet 4 (Covenant) to those in Prometheus. What explains the differences? Those things could be hinted at in a movie but I doubt that we'll see that. Remember the tank that Luke was in after he got beat up by the Wampa? Maybe the engineers used something like that to create the bigger ones like a liquid steroid-bath. Perhaps this could make sense if those were made to secure the Engineer civilization and they took great pride in it so it wasn't made by force. There are many possibilities to choose from if they would try to explain that but I doubt that they will do so.

“... maybe they are a Creation of someone else?”

That's interesting, but you got to explain it in a way that's interesting and makes sense.

“RS had indicated they END RESULT was intended…”

Yeah but it still wasn’t that good plus I wanted to see more of the Engineers in the movie. They could at least have shown the Engineers a bit longer instead of having it all about David even though it would just have been for some scenes.

“It does UPLIFT the PLOT about Genetic Engineering/Perfecting and Sub-Creation. (in Regards to HOW the Prometheus Engineers looked).”

Which is fine but I just wish that those in Alien Covenant would have looked more Alien. They looked too much like human beings even though you try to tie them to human history. I’m not sure how you could have made it better, maybe by make them look bigger and in some way give them enough differences compared to the one in Prometheus while still make them look more Alien instead of peasants from the 15th century.

“Abandoned Normal Sexual Procreation to the POINT that this was Eventually LOST.”

Cloning or something similar to ensure the survival of the species? They know that they are about to end so they clone themselves as younger versions so they still have time to live and when the clones are about to die they make new clones so there will still be Engineers around. Some people might find this to be a lame explanation but if they can make it the natural way and still want to exist then they must come up with something else.

LV-223 seems to have been a huge Engineer lab. If you listen to what Janek says then this could have been a possibility. Maybe it was used for other things than what we saw in Prometheus? The role of the planet could be expanded on and also add to the story about the Engineers. Go back to the Engineers and expand the franchise

“I think with regards to Promethean Tale its about PLAYING GOD has Dire Consequences.”

Which is an interesting thing, I just wish that it would have been better executed.

Good, they should have ended the Ripley-story with Alien 3. Hopefully they will have some new things in it that ain't references to things that have been. New life-forms, and new cultures would be interesting to see. Maybe there will be monsters that are not tied to the Xenomorph at all? This is an opportunity to introduce something new. Please don't rehash things

About having it out in the open, they did that in AVPR but there could maybe be a way to make it work. I'm not sure how they can make it but maybe if they have some good writing then it's a possibility.

Visuals effects, alright but you got to have a story and characters otherwise we'll end up like with the prequels, good visual effects but characters that are disappointments and stories that don't hold up. Not to say that all characters and everything about the stories in the prequels were bad but they could have been so much better.

Hopefully they will have the Engineers involved in some way even though they might not play a huge part. They weren't in Alien Covenant a lot but heavily involved in Prometheus. Maybe they could be in it more than in Covenant but less than in Prometheus? Could the Engineers be involved behind the scenes so to speak? Hopefully this will be an improvement from what we have seen since AR.

It will be Interesting to see what they Mean by our Parasitic Past the Prometheus Plot had (and what Spaights and Ridley Scott indicated) that the Horrors on LV-223 were Created as a Weapon to Deal with Mankind.

So it would be Interesting to see if THIS has been Changed.

There are some CLUES from the Earlier Information etc on this PROJECT we know that its SET ON EARTH.  We know it will Introduce us to Various Aspects of Humanity in Regards to Corporate Greed...  Before they will LIKELY make a Discovery of which would be OPENING UP PANDORA'S BOX.

We had Images of a Xenomorph Embyo, but it also seems that Mankind Discovers either a Engineer Ship or Complex that has Water Inside, and so to me i THINK that someone will COME ACROSS some Sunken Complex/Ship of the Engineers and this is WHERE the **** Hits the Fan.

I think maybe the PLOT could Work, but i am NOT sure its  WISE IDEA to have it SET on Earth and Canon, and Especially if the TIME-LINE is prior to ALIENS

The CONCERN that i have is that they said it would be SET in the NOT TOO DISTANT FUTURE..... This Indicates to me that it will be SET before ALIEN and the Prequels.  It comes down to WHAT is the NOT too Distant?

The Year is 2222 some 100 Years after the Fateful Discovery of the Harbinger of Doom Ship, Mankind has Discovered the Pandoras Box Once again. Only this Discovery is more Closer to Home!

THIS ^^^^ i think we could Deal with!

We are nearly 100 Years Away from ALIEN and to me the Not Too Distant Future seems to indicate more likely 25-50 Years and so a TIME-LINE of 2147-2172 and Especially set on EARTH is a MISTAKE and will Conflict/Contradict the WHOLE FRANCHISE.

I think a lot does depend on what is the GIFT with in Context to Prometheus Mythos the Gift was the Fire of the Gods, as Weyland had put it "Our First Piece of Technology" as without the Discovery of HOW to came Fire then who knows where Mankind would be NOW, our Mastery of his with HOW we could PASS ON KNOWLEDGE is what likely allowed us to Survive while (our Superior Intellect and Ability to Pass On and Retain Knowledge gave us the Advantage to Create more Diverse Tools and make use of Resources)  But INDEED it was FIRE that was a BIG PART especially with the Climate Changing to COLD.

And so Technology/Tools and Knowledge are Important in Context, and it with a Number of the Prometheus Mythos then it was HE who had Taught us Many Things, and maybe TOO MUCH.  But the CORE Part of the Story was the THEFT of FIRE from the Gods.

So maybe we have to look at what is the FIRE/GIFT in Context to the Franchise and it seems the Creation Tool (Goo) is that FIRE.   But if we look at it like that then this GIFT was never really STOLEN and given to Humans.

So the ONLY way maybe it can Relate is that Mankind was Created by this STOLEN GIFT when our Creators were NOT permitted to do so?  But this could also apply to a Fraction of Engineers using the GIFT to EVOLVE themselves.

Or maybe Create something that was Forbidden by their Creators, the Experiments on LV-223 being a WAY to use the GIFT that was NEVER its intended Purpose.

The FRESCO to me reminds me of the Punishment of Prometheus. But as with many things in Prometheus they are OPEN to Interpretation.

Spaights and Ridley Scott had indicated that the Horrors they were Creating were Created in Response to the Problem, Behavior and Threat of MANKIND and so if we had NOT gone and Displeased or Concerned them then maybe these Horrors would NEVER had Happened?

There is a LOT of Ambiguity with Prometheus, i think we could have HOPED for some Answers in a Sequel but we NEVER really got much more of a Explanation.

I am Drawn to looking at David and the LV-223 Engineers being SIMILAR and so maybe those Engineers had been PLAYING WITH THE FIRE and Creating Horrors, more or less the SAME as what David was doing by Trying to Create something Perfect through the Potential that the Organism/DNA that the Deacon had.  Rather than just attempting to USE the Human/Engineer DNA.

The Humans/Engineers needing to be HOST to these Horrors.... if the LV-223 Engineers could NOT go and Procreate like the Planet 4 Engineers and see themselves as Superior to the Planet 4 Engineers, then their Interest in the Horrors we saw on LV-223/Black Goo could be a way for them to TRY and allow themselves to GIVE BIRTH and Procreate something they DEEM as the Next Stage of Evolution.

I think with regards to Promethean Tale its about PLAYING GOD has Dire Consequences.

If you want to make an authentic finish to A L I E N and P R O ME T H E U S.

There are only three matters you need to consider. 

1) Why were the Face Huggers designed to incubate in a host. 

2) Why did the Engineers incubate their creations. (The Birth of the Deacon at the end nailed what was hinted at it in the fresco.)

3) If the Gift was so important why not allow it to be the beginning of all in the traditional way. 

The Gift retconned the entire story and in a magnificent way. 

This is essentially a story about planned creation which begins with the Gift and ends with David and how those layers react to each other and what can go wrong. "The Even More Modern Prometheus."

For two people chocking on hubris to come into that tale Weyland and Elizabeth was just perfect.  

I think another Interesting Revelation with the Planet 4 Engineers was there are FEMALES, and from Davids Notes there are INFANTS and Children and we see the Males and Females and Children have NIPPLES.

The Sacrificial Engineer had NO NIPPLES... this could Indicate some kind of Clone or Artificial Incubation.  It would have been better had the Engineer also had NO NAVEL.  But what this could indicate is those Engineers had some kind of Umbilical Cord attached to them during their Incubation.

Not seeing any Females left us Questions with Prometheus, and when we look at what Spaights Pitch then he indicated the Engineers were NOT that much Different to us but had Engineered/Evolved themselves and Abandoned Normal Sexual Procreation to the POINT that this was Eventually LOST.

But after Prometheus we had RS go and say the Engineers could PROCREATE but they Choose to NOT do so, not in the Sexual Way anyway.  So when we see the Planet 4 Engineers and then that could make us QUESTION as to WHY would they SEED the Worlds like we saw in the Prometheus Prologue?

The Reasons behind this are something that could have Changed over time, and be Interpreted Different with what we saw in Alien Covenant.   To me the OPENING SCENE looked like a World that would have BASIC Microbial Life.

The Sacrifice with the Bio-Former Agent was just a Efficient Way to allow the Engineers DNA to become the CATALYST to Start Advanced Biological Life. (Caused Single Cell Life to become Multicellular) The Engineers would return every so often to FURTHER go and EVOLVE their Creations, i would Suspect the Process was NOT so much the same but SIMILAR to what David was doing, but just NOT using the DNA of Horrors connected to the Deacon/Xenomorph.

I think LV-223 made more Sense as a Place the Engineers would take Life to and then Experiment/Evolve them and WHEN they are Pleased they take these Life-Forms back to the Worlds they are Evolving

This makes more sense when we see the Bio-Former/Pathogen as in the Scarabs from Spaights Draft (Prometheus Goo seemed Basically the same).

I think that YES the MADE in the Image of GOD is relevant.

I think with the PLOT to show these Engineers are our Creators and this is WHY we are Similar is a Interesting WAY to Explore who the SPACE JOCKEY was as John Spaights had said it then makes the STORY go to Connect to US.

The Engineers had a Number of Different Concepts, and WHAT we had ENDED with did look more HUMAN but they had that MAJESTIC look about them too.  You could say like Marble, or Glossy/Plastic almost SYNTHETIC to a degree.

After Prometheus then RS said he did-not want to MEET GOD in the First Movie which was kind of saying the Engineers we saw are NOT GOD and maybe they are a Creation of someone else?   There also was that QUESTION that Dr Shaw had asked... WHO MADE THEM?

Ridley Scott had FELT the Elders Scene was kind of GIVING AWAY too much, yet it Mainly had SHOWN that the Elders appeared to be merely OLDER and more FRAIL versions of our Engineers from Prometheus.

Between the Shooting of Prometheus to the Edit Room to the Home Release and then as we Progress to Alien Covenant then YES i think that THINGS had Changed a bit...

I think some were Disappointed with the Planet 4 Engineers, RS had indicated they END RESULT was intended... I think that YES to Create the Engineers like in Prometheus would have COST MORE than we got.

But for a SHORT SCENE and with the Engineers Clothed and many with Head Coverings and Hats, then a BIT more of a GLOSSY Make Up and Black Contact Lenses would NOT have added Greatly to the BUDGET or Make Up Time (Cost what $50-100 a Head More and 40 Min Tops Extra in the Make Up Chair).

So if it was Budget Cuts it would be PENNY Pinching Cuts.

Looking at the Themes at Play then it could GUIDE us to Conclude.

*Prometheus Engineers are a Engineered Sub-Creation like the Replicants are in Blade Runner.

*Prometheus Engineers are HOW the Race had Genetically Engineered themselves but then they ABANDONED doing this and became back to their Original Form.

OR

*The Prometheus Engineers are a Group who had Attempted to Evolve/Perfect themselves while other Engineers were Content with how they were.

Just add that the Engineers Eyes are NOT really Black as such, so you could NOT just go and USE say Mass Produced Contact Lenses, and so you would have to make so many CUSTOM Ones so YES that would likely be more than Few Hundred $$$ but again i am NOT sure it would have been a Massive Budget Drain.  And you could Gloss Over the Eyes with CGI.

So to have them Appear as they did does seem more Plausible as a Reason to that is HOW they are intended. It does UPLIFT the PLOT about Genetic Engineering/Perfecting and Sub-Creation. (in Regards to HOW the Prometheus Engineers looked).

"I'm just glad they kept the Engineers human, not giving them prosthetic ears / nose / etc.... Last thing we need is to venture into Star Trek / Star Wars universe. ( IMHO )"

What Jon Spaights recognised early on is that to make the story relatable you need this to be a humanoid story. 

Unconsciously or otherwise you then move into the very fertile area, "that God made man in his image." 

Whilst Prometheus was never going to prove Elizabeth right that statement that God made man is implicit in the opening scene by a combination of Engineered ingredients man was made/engineered and God would not make his creation look or be different from what their physical form took.

Indeed given that the incident by the waterfall sped up creation that transmission was more important in imparting 'something' as opposed to being pre occupied with physical appearance. The creatures of the Moon missed this point and when they started to sub create (the deacon) physical form became important but what it should really have told them is all those unholy creations which lead to the Deacon missed the point of the original seeding and the further degradation (the creature) was an extension of that. 

This of course is written in the context of everything said and done up to the 12th June 2012. The Engineers of Covenant looked the way they did to save money according to the production team. That they looked less pure less David like (Michelangelo not Fassbender) enabled Ridley to say they were the originals.

BUMP...

so would anyone be INTERESTED in seeing any Arcturians either in a Movie or TV Series or at least Comics?

As i have said before i think we have to Remember that the Arcturians are either Very Attractive for some Reason, or Sexually Appealing and Satisfying but also that you CANT really tell the Difference much between MALE/FEMALE

Well if we go for a Race that  has (@)(@) Boobies... then they must be Small or Males have them too so you cant TELL the Difference, but to me i think we SHOULD NOT just Assume that other Races in the Galaxy should FIT with the NORMS of a Mammal or Primate.  And so Boobs are merely there to FEED MILK to the Young..... if we had some Humanoid Reptilian or Amphibian then it would make LITTLE SENSE that they would FEED the YOUNG with MILK.

I think it would be Interesting to see the Arcturians and NOT just for a Cert 15 Value for those 15 Year Old Boys around the World ;)

Who would have Created them?

How would People Feel if they was Revealed to be ONE of the Creations of David?

Regarding the OT

A lot has Changed since Prometheus, with the REMOVAL of the Elders scene then the Prometheus Engineers could be just SOULLESS CLONES..  They are Created to SEED the Worlds and then also to MESS ABOUT with other Stuff so the Main Engineer Species can have their LITTLE HAPPY BORING LIVES ;)

The way to look at is IF we Seed other Worlds using Human Sacrifices... but then you Create say Replicants or Clones who you then DEEM as NOT having Human Rights, and so you then Sacrifice them instead as they STILL have the same DNA/Building Blocks for LIFE.

Or another way could be as i have said that maybe SOME of the Engineers decide to USE their Creation Tools to Borrow Traits of other Organisms to Genetically Alter and PERFECT themselves....

I think the Basis that RS is going for is about PLAYING GOD.....

The New Planet of the Apes is kind of a Example.... But lets just say that some Scientist wants to Experiment with the Genomes of a Human and Ape to TRY and make a HYBRID... in Part for Curiosity, in Part because such a THING could be USEFUL for Certain Tasks (like Replicants were used for)  but its also for the Creators Vanity to just SHOW that they CAN and so HOW Successful they are with Genetics.

So you Create a Hybrid so the APE has more Dexterity, it has Superior Speed, Agility and Strength, but its NOT as Smart as a Human.   However NO SOON as you then Enhance the Hybrid so that it can be as EQUAL to a Human in Intelligence and these Hybrids become Sentient and see themselves as the Superior Species.

Then if you have NO CONTROL over them, and they CAN and START to Procreate at a Quick Pace...... then your IN TROUBLE.... and you have the HUBRIS of trying to PLAY GOD will come back and BITE YA in the ASS!

The same thing can be said with Replicants if they Managed to Extend their Lives to Hundreds of Years.... thats Potential Trouble for Mankind.

And so THIS is kind of what RS is going for on Multiple Levels, but he had Decided to Concentrate this down to DAVID.... to show and QUESTION that if you can Create a Artificial Person who has Emotions, Desire and Ambition and Feelings then are THEY really much Different to us?

So we are Essentially Biological Machines... we Differ from Apes because we are more Intelligent and can Accomplish more than a Ape... and so CAN our David.

Do Apes have SOULS? and so then its WHY do we have SOULS or what would Constitute our Souls?   And if our Soul is our Memories, our Emotions, our Empathy or Lack Of, all these things that make us WHO we are.  And so we HAVE NO SPIRITUAL SOUL.... then David indeed is Immortal and has a Soul too.

But i know to take the Creation Cake down to the Layer of David and WHAT he would CREATE is maybe NOT to everyone's CUP OF TEA....

I am sure that Fans would have liked to see WHY and WHAT ELSE the Engineers have Created and WHO had Created them!

Regarding David and whats NEXT..... i suspect that he would go on to CREATE his own Humanoids and those Human Embryos would be getting EVOLVED. But OF COURSE..... this will be a Great Hubris and Downfall for David.

But indeed i think it would be Interesting to see WHAT ELSE the Engineers had Created as the PLOT seems to be they are MORE INTERESTED in Creating Life like Humans than Monsters like the Xenomorph.....  But when these Shepard's (Engineers) find their Lambs  are becoming a Problem/Disruptive then having a WOLF to Deal with them is Handy... but its NOT about the WOLF this was ALIEN and LV-223 i think there was more SCOPE in seeing WHAT other Races the Engineers have Created/Evolved.

with David i think we have seen his WOLF and he has Proven he can Create a more Perfect Wolf than the Engineers had on LV-223, and i think David would NOW want to show he can Create more Perfect Lambs than the Engineers had too.

Without David it's just evil scientist / evil corporation doing it for the money ( Done to death by thousands of movies / novels IMHO ).

I consider David an immortal version of Peter Weyland. But as where Peter would have to involve greedy / gossipy / stupid humans ( Prometheus ), David insulates us from that.

I like David as judge, jury, executioner. Cut out the middle humans.

I too, don't want the Space Jockey touched....But I'm really curious on just what RS has in mind and would gladly shell out a large amount of money to find out!

I think that ONE of the things that RS was going for is to ASK US...

What Constitutes Creation?, a SOUL and Immortality.

So the Engineers have Created/Evolved Life that has became US... so you can Genetically Modify and Engineer Biology to Create a Intelligent Biological Life-Form.

But it was to SHOW us that WHY cant that be done with Artificial Creation, a None-Organic Creation and so with David its Basically to SHOW that he is MORE HUMAN than we think... YET he does-not have the Disadvantages of being Human.

But the Emphasis became TOO MUCH about HIM and i am sure Many Fans would have seen him as a SUPPORTING ROLE.

As for the Space Jockey i think its a MISTAKE to even go and make the Prequels eventually LEAD to  that EVENT... I think the Space Jockey should Eventually be revealed to be a Engineer or the Race who are ABOVE the Engineers.

But i SUSPECT that it would be a Creation of David, and would NOT go and RULE-OUT that we would have Concluded with this 10ft Being that David had Created would have DAVIDS SOUL that is Transferred to it some HOW!

Indeed that was a Misleading Poster ;)

Could he have had something like this PLANNED for the Future?  Who knows..

Thats a Good Point as in a WAY then Cryogenic Sleep would be kind of a TIME-TRAVEL as in this is WHAT had happened to BUCK ROGERS ;)

I can ONLY just Imagine the Engineer went into Cryo-sleep to AVOID the OUTBREAK... but then the other Cyro-sleep Engineers were NOT so LUCKY.

Which makes me Suspect our LV-223 Engineer maybe had something to do with the OUTBREAK?

I think maybe those LV-223 kind have NO Family as i suspect the IDEA is that they are to those Planet 4 Engineers as Replicants are to Humans.

But Cryogenics is Interesting as we KNOW that Weyland-Yutani have Accomplished this and it DEPENDS on HOW LONG can these Sustain a Person for... we know Ripley remained in Stasis for 57 Years but could the Cyro-Pods as of 2090 do the same?  The Engineers Ones we know can Hibernate you for Thousands of Years.

I bring this UP because if you was Peter Weyland then i do think he MAYBE had Thought about putting himself UNDER ICE... until Science or some other WAY is FOUND to be able to GRANT him the Extra Life/Immortality he is after.

I also think that YES you have to keep the Movies as Canon, and NOT go any Remove any.  But the ALIEN V ideas by Blomkamp and Brandywine would REMOVE some Movies as Canon and they BOTH also bring back RIPLEY.

If they want to see RIPLEY again then i think a Continuation of ALIEN R is the way to go.

Well it seems that FOX had felt you had to make the Franchise about the Xenomorph, as Originally it seemed a Prometheus Sequel would have BRANCHED OFF as a Spin Off that would NOT be Connected to the Xenomorph or LV-426. However i think UNDER the Control of DISNEY then IF we get a Movie/TV Show i think the Xenomorph would become the Centerpiece again.  I would think they would see the Prequels as being a Disappointment and will UNLIKELY see any Continuation.

I will agree that RS does seem to Change his Mind a lot, but also the POWERS THAT BE also seem to Change their minds a lot too.  ULTIMATELY they are the Ones who say what goes.

I think that CHARACTERS are Important and we have NOT seen any really Stand Out, not REALLY like the First 3 Movies and so THIS is something that they NEED to get Right.

The Time-Line has become a Problem now.... prior to Alien Covenant and the U-TURN about the Xenomorph, then RS had it in his MIND that the Derelict/Eggs had been on LV-426 a Few Hundred Years after the Engineers had LOST CONTROL of LV-223 with the Outbreak.

Without any TIME-TRAVEL then we are 17 Years prior to ALIEN with LV-426 likely having NO EGGS or Derelict at Present (Year 2105)  So YES this was another Problem with the Mistake of making the Prequels become a Chronological Prequel to those EGGS eventually getting on LV-426.

BD

The Xeno has been done over and over, that's one of the things that was good about Prometheus which is that it expanded the universe. Unfortunately Alien Covenant made the wrong thing by making it smaller. You mention it being centered around Xenos, that's one of the problems but there are other things where they went wrong.

About contradictions in the franchise, that's why you need people to look at that so it doesn't. Scott can remove AR if he wants but don't mess with 2 and 3. Aliens and Alien 3 are way better than the prequels because they have characters that you can cane about that or the most part are better written.

You mention the time-line, I would rather have the derelict being older. When you make it a recent thing you remove the mystery but it should be better than that. Something that happened two or three years ago or something that has been there for hundreds or thousands of years, I know what I find to be the most interesting.

"But this would Conflict ALIEN!"

Make it a spin-off? Don't ruin Alien with that, he has already done enough damage. Don't remove Aliens from Canon, that movie is a lot better than the prequels. Don't let Scott's ego put more blemishes on the franchise than it already has caused.

BD

"It seems that THIS was the Main Force behind the Prequels..."

If that's the case I would say that they went wrong from the beginning. They should have made it re-written to tone down David's role because at least I'm not interested in it. Human history and the Engineers yes, David no. Let it be in a spin-off movie about androids in the alien-franchise but not in the major ones. A sort of Rogue One in the Alien-universe about androids could be OK if it's done in an interesting way but not in the major movies.

"And so when i mention ALPHA-RACE i mainly think that you could go and EXPLORE another Race who are ABOVE the Engineers, they could be LESS-HUMAN or even Totally NOT Humanoid."

That seems interesting, I would support that. Get some decent writers and a director that doesn't interfere with the story. They could look around for inspiration and try to use that to expand the franchise into involving other things. Androids could be a part of the story but not be the story. It would be interesting to see what kind of rituals they have, architecture, medicine, and so on. These are things that I hoped to see in Alien Covenant but they messed it up.

"I suspect that David would Create a more Perfect Human Species from those Human Embryos and he would Charade to them that he is their GOD and Creator... UNTIL other Humans Turn up and his Creations then DISCOVER their TRUE ORIGINS and Davids... and well thats when Creating those beings becomes a DOWNFALL for David."

Whatever, I don't care about that even though I'm fine with the fact that some people enjoy such a thing. That sounds like Raised By Wolves, something that I'm not very interested in since it seems that the characters are lame plus the over-reliance on androids. You mention themes, they are interesting but the story isn't. A story got to work for me otherwise the themes don't matter that much.

An Engineer as the SJ seems to make more sense but it shouldn't have anything to do with David. Right now it's all about a mad robot, which quite frankly is crap. Some people might find the android-tale to be interesting and that's their right to do so but I don't like it.

"I do THINK that the Franchise could Explore other Races that Created the Engineers or that the Engineers had Created and by doing so either in SETTING a STORY that is FAR FAR AWAY or a VERY LONG TIME AGO... or Both"

That would be awesome, hopefully they get some decent writers that can write and that know that the franchise needs to expand beyond Xenos and David.

That looks like a mutated dog, it looks a bit strange compared to what we've seen this far. Maybe it can work, I'm not sure. Prometheus introduced the black goo so it can be used in different ways. Hopefully we'll see more of the Engineers in various alien-things even though they shouldn't be over-used or else it will be like the Xeno that we've seen a lot of times before.

BD

Yeah but then if they will be impregnated (like a face-hugger to Xeno) then they must be very strong to take down an Engineer. What if the Engineers developed super-monsters that become stronger than they expected? I try to find out a way that is logical to make that happen.

Remember the bogus poster to Alien Covenant even though it was awesome? It was bogus because it hinted at a story that we weren't given. Something like that could be used to make something interesting in the franchise.

Good to see some Engineer-things in there. The stone-head looked interesting (about 30 seconds into the clip). Not a fan of the glowing Xenos, isn't the point that they hide in the dark and use it to their advantage? It looks interesting, except for the glowing Xenos.

So why do we think the Engineer on LV-223 was in hibernation?  Why is he not home with his family?

What's the point of sleeping his life ( and his civilization ) away?

Immortality through time manipulation?

If I could jump forward 2,000 years ...I might do it.....Or maybe 2 million years!

I think it Certainly looks like it would MAKE a Interesting and FUN Video Game ;)

Its NICE to see them Explore some of the Engineers Worlds/Buildings/Ships etc as the Engineers play a LARGE ROLE in the Experiments/Pathogen that PAVED the WAY for the Xenomorph.  Its also INTERESTING to see some Alternative Monsters related to those Experiments/Pathogen

Aw they're so cute

also that other alien thing looks like something i'd make up it looks pretty cool

Nice to see something DIFFERENT some of these have ELEMENTS/DNA of some of the UNUSED Concepts for BOTH of the Prequels.

The Screens are Interesting what do we HAVE is this on a SHIP or a OUTPOST if its a OUTPOST is it somewhere on LV-223 that we have NOT yet Seen.  I HOPE that this PLACE is NOT on Planet 4 unless its the INSIDE of a SHIP thats Docked Underground on Planet 4

What i have NOTICED is that the Engineers Technology/Architecture is more Mechanical than Organic as we saw in ALIEN i can ONLY assume that THEY have Decided to STEER AWAY  from the Bio-Mechanical HR Giger Aesthetic for some Reason.

I say that as THESE SCENES look LESS of a HR Giger than in Prometheus/Alien Covenant (Juggernaught)

Looks promising. Especially those Engineer's temples. Also I noticed a new creature.

Hey, BD? Where are you?

Well thats the THING you could SHOW a Engineer getting Chest Busted in a Cut Scene then the Player Turns up Days after and we have our BIG Deacons.

The Original Deacons (likely the MURAL) may be Different to the ONE in Prometheus, i say this because the Trilobite was Essentially a Human/Morph Hybrid (it had Hair) so the Deacon also have a Higher % Human DNA than say a Neomorph or Xenomorph may have.

But Certainly the Prometheus Plot does OPEN UP a whole HOST of Worlds and Various Horrors, it does-not have to come down to LV-223/LV-426 and Planet 4

David did-not just PULL those Eggs out of the AIR it was not a Case of Black Goo + Dr Shaws Egg Cells = Xenomorph.

There are Various Horrors he Created/Experimented with on the ROAD to his Eggs.

And so its LIKELY the Engineers had Concocted Various Horrors on their PATH to the MURAL Organism.

Cool! I'm sold on this.

Not sure a 12ft Deacon would fit on a human spaceship? 

Just another reason to visit Engineer temples and Juggernauts. Designers don't have to keep every creature small enough to access human airlocks / bulkheads ).

Looks interesting, if I recall correctly, devs did say there will be lots of unexpected moments in the game. It appears there are also some kind of pale head-crab like creatures running around.

Also, its really nice to see Engineer facilities. I wonder if we will get to see a live Engineer. 

I think another Advantage to having the Engineers is it ALLOWS them to be HOSTS to introduce like more ELITE kinds of Xenomorph etc with like 50% More Damage and are able to take 50% More Damage in Return.  Or you could have it that THEY are DOUBLE that Bonus.

So it allows us to have 10-12ft Tall Xenomorphs, Neomorphs etc.   

As Far as ADULT (Engineer Born) Deacons i would Estimate the ADULT would be about 12ft

I want to see Engineers as an elite enemies/mini-bosses. Because in this case you will meet them more often.

I think the Elder Scene was of Importance but the Reasons behind it are something that maybe Changes as with Quite a bit of the Story over Time/Drafts.  As those working on the Prequels seem to Change their Minds a lot, and a lot of it is Ambiguous.

At the TIME that the Scene was SHOT then it had Highlighted that the Sacrificial Scene was a Highly Ritualistic Event.  We have YET to even see the FULL Scene as Daniel Twiss (who played the Sacrificial Engineer) had said he had to Learn a Few Lines of ALIEN Dialect.  On the Bonus Material we did get to see some Dialect from the ONE ELDER, and then some of the Shooting Script with a Translation.

"Let your body become the dirt. Your blood become the waters, and may your soul become their way back to us."

We should not really look into that too Literally though, as the Planet already had Dirt and Water, but what we know is the Engineer is Donating his Body to Create Life, and RS had said the Engineers Choose to do this and said it was like how some Ancient Cultures would Choose Sacrifices.  We had RS said the Engineers can Create Life in other ways but they Seed the Worlds in this way, it would appear they see this EVENT as Very Important and maybe a HONOR?

The Full Scene with Sub-Titles would have Revealed maybe too much, it seemed RS wanted to NOT reveal too much about WHY the Engineers do what they do in the First Movie.

But i would say YES there would seem to be RITUALS and WAYS of the Engineers that they ABIDE too, it would seem the Creation Tool (The Original Goo/Pathogen) was something they USE to Create/Evolve Life and there must have been RULES to Govern HOW and WHEN this is to be USED.

It is SAFE to assume the Engineers had USED this Pathogen/Goo to Create Life for Millions of Years....  it would seem its SOLE PURPOSE was NOT what we saw in Prometheus on LV-223.  So IF those Engineers are Consider the FALLEN this means maybe they had been USING the Creation Tool in a WAY that it was NOT meant to be USED.

Ridley Scott had said that LV-223 was for the Creation of Bio-Weapons to USE on Mankind (maybe others too) but he also said the ENGINEERS would go to Worlds they deem a Failure and WIPE the Slate Clean.... well if this is the CASE i would say DROPPING DOWN like Hundreds of Urns of the SACRIFICIAL GOO would be the IDEAL way to FACTORY RESET a World... looking HOW this had Affected the Sacrificial Engineer.

With LV-223 we do know that INDEED there are Consequences to using the Creation Tool, while Prometheus is Ambiguous i think that SPAIGHTS DRAFTS do give us more Clarity.  With the Scarabs we could see more Clearly that it appeared at some POINT some of the Engineers had been Playing with Fire (Creation Scarabs) by using them to OBTAIN and Exploit the DNA of some other Organism that is the Biological Genesis of the Xenomorph if you would.

So i think that to LOOK at WHY would have been Important as it seems the Engineers Priority was Creation but also Survival and Especially if we look at Spaights Pitch.  Back then the Engineers had been a Humanoid Race who over Millions of Years had made Advancements to Prolong their Lives, they abandoned Sexual Reproduction and eventually LOST the Ability to Procreate.

This would GIVE a Good Reason for the Sacrificial Scene if it was a ATTEMPT to Create/Evolve a Humanoid Species so that they can Procreate again?  However Spaights had indicate that they Created us so that we can INHERIT what they had Created when the TIME had come for the Engineers to TRANSCEND from the Physical World into Multidimensional Beings.

This seems to Indicate the Engineers had managed to EXTEND their Lives but they had NOT really become IMMORTAL and so they was LOOKING at WAYS so they can LIVE-ON and their SOULS to be Free of the Restraints of a Biological Body.

By the TIME we get to his last Few Drafts we have NO indication of this.... it seemed to touch more on the Development of Various Xenomorphs to be USED to SMITE those they saw as a Threat or WHO they had Fallen Out of Favor with.

WHEN i look at the LAST Movie of the Franchise which is Alien Resurrection i find it Fascinating that the Xenomorph DNA had LED to RIPLEY 8 having the Memories of Ripley... this seemed to INDICATE the Xenomorph can PASS ON some kind of Genetic Memory Transfer.

To me this is KIND OF a KEY to some kind of Reincarnation and After-Life.  If this is the CASE then THIS makes PERFECT sense for WHY those Engineers had began to Experiment with the Ancestor of the Xenomorph.... if it was to UNLOCK as to WHY maybe this Organism has Genetic Memory Transfer/Reincarnation.

This is NOT to say WHAT has been going on, i just think it would make PERFECT SENSE.   But its likely that THEY had FAILED to Obtain this.... and all they could Create was HORRORS and so the Original Parasite that they Experimented on may have had a INTENTION but all they ENDED UP with was a Consequence.

"When Ridley Scott had said that IN-PART that Prometheus was about the SOUL and IMMORTALITY i dont think he had PLANS to show us that when we DIE we DO go to HEAVEN!

I think it was to SHOW that the Faith of Dr Shaw had been Proven to be WRONG about WHO our Creator is.... and so its LIKELY that her Faith is WRONG about the After-Life and Soul."

Logan Marshall Green made the point that he represented the scientific view and Elizabeth the faith based view and that neither were right the out come was a train wreck.

What that implies is that whilst we would have been shown that creation is galvanised through science (The Genesis Cup) there are rules of engagement. This was not going to be nihilistic. The footnote the creature the unintended consequence is. 

The eight noble savages in "the arrival of the engineers" had the power of creation in their hands but there was a code and part of that was a promise of a return of the soul.

How soul is defined and where it resides will never be answered by the films, even as they came to edit Prometheus they moved it closer to 'the routine' rather than the philosophical but those ideas cast a shadow over the film.

The Pebble Ship is not an accident and the consequences of their seeding was to produce an Engineered outcome. It follows that they gave thought to what happens when the outcomes cease. Their appearance by the waterfall had purpose. There was a plan. 

In my work Elizabeth is more wrong about where they go than the moon. In Prometheus Weyland is nearly responsible for the end of mankind. In my extension Elizabeth is potentially responsible for the end of creation. 

I think YES it was RIGHT to make the Engineers appear more Human as THIS does FIT with the Ancient Astronaut kind of PLOT where Many Accounts of Ancient Gods/Religions have our Gods as being VERY HUMAN looking.

If we introduced a RACE who are ABOVE the Engineers and their Creators, do we then make them LESS HUMAN?  I think maybe but maybe you DONT make them too FAR APART and ALIEN looking?

"Last thing we need is to venture into Star Trek / Star Wars universe"

Who knows what the PLANS would have been for RS had the Prequels been a GREAT SUCCESS!  I think he would have SHOWN us Various Worlds with Various Races and i do think some would be Humanoid but Different and so i would NOT say that he would have STEERED AWAY from being a bit of a Star Trek/Star Wars.

It would be Interesting to see what Arcturian Poontang looks like as in the Arcturians as a Species.. are they a Creation by the Engineers? could they be a Creation by David?