Ridley Scott considers Prometheus a mistake.

Ridley Scott, listen to me. Prometheus was not a mistake. I do not want to see xenomorphs anymore. And I want to know who are the engineers and if Elizabeth Shaw finally met them and got her answers

I know I'm the minority here, but I don't think the beast is cooked at all. I also really didn't like Prometheus at all either, so this change in direction doesn't bother me.

First thing, the title of this post is slightly misleading. I saw the title and was under the impression that Ridley outright stated recently that Prometheus was a mistake. Now I see this is not the case. I have watched all interviews and have yet to see anything indicating that he plans on abandoning the Prometheus concepts and questions completely. 

That said, what I HAVE seen is an indication that from here onward, Ridley intends to ensure that a certain amount of Alien remains in the franchise so that the Prometheus concepts do not once again lose the interest of Alien fans.

That said, I'm a big Prometheus fan and would be royally pissed if Ridley abandoned those concepts in favor of satisfying fanboys. So if you others out there who loved Prometheus really care and don't want Ridley to drop the pursuit of those ideas, then make it known in every place where Fox will likely be pulling numbers. I'm talking IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes, and Amazon. Do reviews on all those sites and when you give it two stars out of five, make it clear in your comments that it is because the film deviated to far from the deeper ideas and focused too much on the Alien elements.

Ridley IS listening. He indicated this much in two or three interviews. Alien Covenant is proof. Market research means quite a bit to him. Make your thoughts known so he and Fox find them and realize that they are disappointing you. Give them a chance to serve your interests. 

21st century sci-fi fans can be every bit as vicious as Giger's beastie.

We could of had a Giger world laid out, one of horror, mystery and wonder but looks like that is not going to happen. 

I liked PROMETHEUS, and I always will. I don't consider it a 'mistake', but a really great launch-pad for expansive storytelling in more than one direction.

Do not give up Ridley!

It just wasn't what many people expected, I think. I think as time goes on, it will be become either more appreciated, or just remain in the no man's land it inhabits in the fans' mind. It's sort of a shame, coming from someone who enjoyed it for what it is and have to come to undertsand that Sir Ridley really gave us a think piece. I do love his stance on the fans' reactions though. He knows it is about a balance. Some fan service/leaning towards what is demanded, but maintaining his vision, wants, and the story's needs. Also, one more week until U.S. release, wooo!

QueenElizabethShaw

QUOTE

That said, I'm a big Prometheus fan and would be royally pissed if Ridley abandoned those concepts in favor of satisfying fanboys. So if you others out there who loved Prometheus really care and don't want Ridley to drop the pursuit of those ideas, then make it known in every place where Fox will likely be pulling numbers. I'm talking IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes, and Amazon. Do reviews on all those sites and when you give it two stars out of five, make it clear in your comments that it is because the film deviated to far from the deeper ideas and focused too much on the Alien elements.

Ridley IS listening. He indicated this much in two or three interviews. Alien Covenant is proof. Market research means quite a bit to him. Make your thoughts known so he and Fox find them and realize that they are disappointing you. Give them a chance to serve your interests. 

END OF QUOTE

GREAT post, GOOD advice and I for one will do so!!

As I have just returned from the cinema and my spoiler gloves are off I can see exactly why Ridley would make the points he has because the conceptual follow through from Prometheus is reduced to a mixture of plot points and texture the big issues surrounding Paradise are just not dealt with.  

It is also interesting to note that having set up two key questions in the crossing he does not deal with either.

I would describe the film as a routine thriller with twists set in space. It is not particularly scary and actually believe his original assessment that the beast is cooked is correct.

In more general terms it starts well with some surprising twists and a nice adult pace but curiously enough its the core of the films story what I will call "the revelations of David" which seem emotionally underwhelming. I think that because I cannot make sense of the David/Shaw arc, which is part of a wider issue that for me David is actually so tricky I reach the point where he is no longer interesting. I do not get any conflict in his behaviour just random and nihilistic. His unpredictability becomes predictable his lack of any behavioural compass boring (OK behave like that I am just not interested anymore). Once of course the lifecycle is up and running it is terribly routine and echoey. I expected to have a good deal to say about the film, particularly thematically, but frankly its by the number creationism over and out.

The mutagen is as we know an ALIEN pathogen and the rest you can guess.

He should rather look at all the reactions Prometheus made and see all the engagement it made among the aliens fans when they had no idea what could happen next and from then know his direction was brilliant, now it seems he just made another alien/bug hunt movie, but a good one that is, but there is still hope in the next one.

I like Ridley, but I'm annoyed with him. Real directors don't bend to the will of whiny nerdy fanboys (and girls).  Same as many musicians out there who make the music THEY like, and not what they think their fans would like and/or deserve.  A true artist should stubbornly stick to their own vision, and never give up.  I haven't seen Covenant yet (doesn't release until the 18th), but Prometheus 2 would have been better than what seems to be (on the surface) another generic Alien movie.  I love the Xeno but not sure I want to see the same action sequences over and over for at least another 2 movies after AC.  The mythology and philosophy of Prometheus were the most appealing parts of that movie to me (I couldn't give a F about the Deacon reveal and Cuddles, etc) and I am concerned that those questions raised will never be answers or at least explored further, and that is hugely disappointing.  I can't stand not having closure in a movie, even if it that isn't until several sequels down the line.  Once again, it's a shame a few fanboys and fan girls had to ruin the direction this franchise took just because they couldn't understand Prometheus and were  frustrated with everything not being fully explained to them right away.

This truly broke my heart. I LOVE Prometheus! It is deep, grandiose, mythic, expansive and most definitely thought-provoking. It expanded the Alien Universe into one of depth, lore and its own mythology. I was so intrigued with the topics being explored.

  I also love Noomi Rapace and her character Elizabeth Shaw was whose journey I really wanted to follow. She was pursuing the greatest mystery of all.

  Aliens is a cool movie and I do like it but it's very overrated. It's an action movie in space. Explosions and bullets. No grand ideas or groundbreaking filmmaking. What people refer to as a popcorn movie.

  Please return to the grander, deeper picture that Prometheus began to paint Ridley!!

Agreed, Prometheus opened up so many possibilities and new directions for storytelling in the Alienverse. There was so much intrigue as to where RS was going with it. Ill take yours suggestion on-board  QueenElizabethShaw  

Personally, I didn't care for the Alien sequels, nor the AVP films.

There were intriguing and admirable perspectives of the Xenomorph, but the franchise didn't maintain Ridley Scott's atmosphere integrity.

Admittedly, I was disappointed by the crew of Prometheus.

A biologist that interacts with an alien lifeform without caution ...

A geologist that gets lost returning to the ship ...

And in addition to the lack of humility and competence on the part of Prometheus' academic crew ... is a hostile alien planet really the ideal time for sexual relationships?

Otherwise, Prometheus was an ideal catalyst to delve into the details of our genetic heritage, and to elaborate on the story behind the original films 'Space Jockey'.

I don't believe that the prequel series need be an issue of focusing on the Engineers 'or' the Xenomorphs. Both are significant foundations to the Alien storyline, and from what I've seen from the trailers, it looks as though Covenant will develop both aspects more thoroughly.

I trust that Ridley Scott's intentions are of a greater scale than a single movie's appeal. I feel that most responses to Prometheus were impatient. Give the series time to develop and evolve. I anticipate that both the Xenomorph and Engineer enthusiasts will find satisfaction in the complete series of films, and provide a fresh perspective of the '79 classic.

What's most intriguing about the new films is the significance of Michael Fassbender's A.I. interpretations of humanity and our engineers. David is undoubtedly the fulcrum from which the fate of each species will evolve or be destroyed.

Frank Herbert would have been terrified of David's potential.

Personally ... I consider David an enduring anti hero that will shape the future of Alien films to come. 

Prometheus was as every bit as powerful as the first Alien movie. It added a lot of new information and mystery into the Alien franchise. In terms of movies being discussed online, Prometheus is huge and maybe the biggest ever. 

The movie itself was crammed packed with new stuff. 

A mistake? No way in hell(if it exists). 

I believe the movie was made for Alien fans and not just the general public.

Prometheus is one of my all time faves. It'll be hailed as a classic in time IMHO..I honestly loved that movie so much. The ideas in that movie are so superb..Hopefully Alien: Covenant can match it..

I think there CAN be a balance. I think Alien Covenant tried rocky do that, but the fans dictated and the Prometheus bits were left on the cutting room floor. I think there can be a balance of having the big questions answered. They've just got to find that balance of horror and deep questions. Maybe it's time to put the classic Xeno to rest. He's run his course, done his work, now let newer, scarier beasts, like the Neomorph and Deacon shine. They have deeper connections to the engineer storyline anyway. Have the deep questions be answered with the Engineers present, then BOOM! Deacon outbreak. Find the balance. Keep the franchise fresh. 

I just got back from seeing Covenant and I'm really disappointed. I really loved Prometheus, it felt new and exciting but they have completely removed every trace of this in Covenant. 

The fans wanted a standard Alien bloodbath and that's what Ridley gave them. 

It definitely feels like we are dumbing down cinema. I often wonder if people would have liked Alien if it had been released today or whether they'd complain it was "slow" or "there was not enough action". 

OK if Alien is more important for Ridley why he do not anything for when Fox release AVP and AVPR... Why he make choice after a long time to return to Alien franchise... I think he want to pass Aliens massive success. But when he re-cut Alien in 2003 is something gone wrong. Because is not straight as theatrical cut, and people also shown added some wall cocoon scenes in Aliens before.

Prometheus is really a fresh start. But something gone wrong with it. Not had a good story or film edit. Also in end everybody has thinked at now xeno is came out but a sweaty Deacon is said Hello.

Probably he will never nominee a Oscar as direction again, i think and he want to take control for Alien franchise and will make a differ scale of other Alien movies. It will be divide as Ridley's alien movies and others...

Whatever i will see Covenant in May 14th.

I really believe and excited in question and Engineers story in Prometheus. I think is a different movie. But it gave a lot of story hole and unanswered questions... And i do not understand why xeno's life cycle is change...

I said before, and will say again; for me Aliens (special edition) and Alien (theatrical version) is best Alien movies. And will stay as. If anybody want to make a good alien movie, ok why do not make it? Technology is fresh, new actors is fresh... You need just a good story and film edit. Not a good ego.

Hi folks,

I seen Alien Covenant on May 14th, in Istanbul.

I had zero expectations and i got negative review.

I will write a review soon.

I want to thanks for all fans who care and contribute to more idea about alien universe, and forum members. I learnt more from you. From December to May, i had a lot chat, entry reading and my opinions. 

So please see before Alien Covenant two prologue videos -crew introducing and david w/ dr shaw-  cos they are not including in movie. 

Had a enjoy!

(15-May-2017)

Some of us haf thought as much over the last 5 years.

The problem I mainly have with the Xeno is that it's predictable. We know everything about it now. The Neomorphs and Deacons, those are far more intriguing.

I agree that the neomorphs and deacons are more intriguing ... and potentially more frightening. The Xenomorphs familiarity and scale similarity to humans is less disturbing than being pursued by physically deformed children ... intent on eating your face.

I am most looking forward to visually touring David's laboratory. Hopefully, the 'Art of Alien Covenant' will further elaborate on the diabolical experiments of the film's intellectual monster.

"Look on my works, ye mighty ... and despair"

I will have to be careful with my replies out of respect to those who have not seen Alien Covenant, but i will cover Prometheus a bit in my next post.... but first..

"Ridley Scott, listen to me. Prometheus was not a mistake. I do not want to see xenomorphs anymore."

Unfortunately we will be seeing many more Xenomorphs, it appears Ridley and Fox feel this is what the Franchise lacks and whats needed.  The Fans Reaction to Prometheus was not as good as they hoped, because its not about the acting or silly things, the KEY Problem that seems to have changed FOX mind... is Prometheus did not give us any Alien Creatures to Satisfy the Fans... Fifield was not Alieny enough...  and the Deacon we only saw a glimpse of... 

I WILL HAVE TO FINISH..... My Prometheus Re-write i am sure its the Movie Prometheus should have been...    Ultimately FOX have gauged Fans disappointment at not seeing Aliens and Eggs, and also not getting the answers... and looking at peoples reaction to Spaights Draft which had these... and the Anticipation for Blomkamps Alien 5.... is what lead to Alien Covenant.

"NEVER try to please the audience, that's what I say atleast, they don't know what they want anyway."

Fans know what they want.... but no TWO Fans always want the same, so the point you make is Valid.... Unfortunately Fanbase is Split into these sections.

1) Casual Movie fans.... fans like you Mother or Auntie Dot, the Paper Boy etc... well just say 75% of Fans who go to Cinema or Rent a Movie.  These guys will not get Prometheus, but they will get Alien Covenant because its got Aliens and Action and Gore.

2) Casual Sci-Fi Fans... Fans who love Sci-Fi movies, these guys will be a mixed bunch... some would get or like Prometheus themes, some may find some Plot Holes..

3) Casual Alien Fans... those who like movies with Aliens and Action, be it any Aliens movies included Alien Resurrection and to a degree AVP movies.. and all the Games. Basically if its got Eggs and Aliens, and Action and maybe Queens they like it... These guys will really like Alien Covenant, certainly as much as any other movie maybe not as much as they like ALIENS

Then you are left with those who enjoyed Prometheus to the point they look forwards to the things it was trying to explore... and then we also have the ALIEN fans who love Alien but do not like the other Movies...  Sadly these Guys take up the lower % of Fanbase who potentially will go and see Movies, and so FOX is catering for the other 3 Factions above...

so FOX has to cater for what it thinks will make the most $$$$$

"I mean Force Awakens is the most disapointing SW film I've seen so far"

This movie did split some fans... some fans enjoyed it because of the Nostalgia, but take away the Stars Wars Cast (R.I.P Carrie Fisher) it would be a bit lacking... agreed..  Not as bad as Phantom Menace but again Force Awakens and Phantom Menace had elements that made them good, but then elements that let them down which effected the movies in General...  Alien Covenant has the same affect on me. 

"I like Ridley, but I'm annoyed with him. Real directors don't bend to the will of whiny nerdy fanboys (and girls)."

I kind of covered this in my previous post.... if they visit sites like this and AVPGalaxy then they will find (more so on here) that not all fans disliked Prometheus... but most of them on these sites wish it had more answers and Xeno-ish Monsters... FOX also is aware of this, and the wider public (away from here and AVPGalaxy) may not have even understood where Prometheus was going in relation to Alien, and Blomkamps Alien 5 was getting a lot of Interest and so they (FOX) feel the Alien is what sells the Franchise.

"A biologist that interacts with an alien lifeform without caution"

AND

"is a hostile alien planet really the ideal time for sexual relationships?"

Both of these problems make a appearance in AC...

In regards to Prometheus it was a bit dumb the whole Space Cobra Petting... the other drafts had a better explanation... However Miss Vickers Picked the Crew maybe for a Agenda, and Milburn is not Captain Material and has not seen these Aliens do any killing or aware of any infections.... thats all i will say on that ;)

Shaw and Holloway, thought all the Engineers was dead, and they left when the Urns was leaking... they would not have known they was in immediate Danger at the point when Holloway and Shaw got it on....

I'm disappointed with Ridley's comments as they are presented here. Surely many people disliked Prometheus because "it didn't have Aliens" but I think most real fans didn't like some plot points (or plot holes if you will) along with the many questions and untied ends it left, not just the lack of Aliens. The different script drafts might have played a role here. If Ridley's attitude was "if they want aliens, I'll give them aliens" it was somewhat immature in my humble opinion. Frankly, if you want to appease people who just want "aliens" without much care about the story they can watch the AvP movies. "Alien" and Ridley should be more about the atmosphere the film creates, the unique visuals (with Giger's design being paramount) and establishing a solid background to the story.

Personally I liked the introduction of the Engineers in Prometheus and wish to see more of them. Hopefully we will them in a future film but alas I think this will not be the case. I would also like to see plausible explanations or answers to some of the questions posed in Prometheus as well as the creation and evolution of all the creatures (humans, proto/neo/xeno/ovo morphs), Engineers, etc.).

Ridley Scott does seem to indicate in hindsight they made some mistakes with Prometheus...  The whole concept of Prometheus as far as a Prequel was to Answer....

1) Who was the Space Jockey (its Race) Engineers...it did this in a way that split fans, in a way that opened up and expanded the Franchise, but with a Plot that was so Vast and Bold.. its hard to do justice.. a very tricky thing to cover indeed.

2) What relation did the Egg Cargo have with the Space Jockey... The movie did answer this just not in a direct way that relates to the next Questions... but it did show these Engineers have been experimenting with the Black Goo as a Bio-Weapon Carried by Similar ships that is connected Genetically to the Xenomorph... just never Spoon Fed. 

3) How did the Derelict get there with those Eggs.. again Prometheus had good clues... but it was never Spoon Fed Explained.  And we never got to see any of those Eggs.

It seemed Prometheus 2 would explore Questions 1+2 plus other Questions that Prometheus left... but sadly this did not seem to please most fans...  and FOX felt maybe they should be bringing the Alien Back into it, and in part answer who created it and why.

Only potentially fans may now have a Answer that they may not be pleased with...

BELOW ... are a few comments i head off people leaving the Cinema Today... wont put ones that give much away.

*Glad its not like Prometheus, the Engineers was silly, but its not as Good as Aliens still.

*Wonder if the sequel will show us the Space Jockey and Ripley.. (like they connect lol).   

*In which a reply was.. yeah wonder if David creates the Space Jockey or if they show it was a Skeleton... 

*Did you like the new Aliens, i prefer the older ones shame they did not just have them in it....  (rather had Xenos and not Neos)

*Looking forwards to the next movie, glad we never got Prometheus stuff, good riddance...  

*someone replied... wonder if thats out after Alien 5

I heard one person say.... "i was hopping to find out what happened after Prometheus, maybe the next movie cover it"

So you see this was the general response i heard... this fits with the notion of fanbase that forced Ridleys Hand, and it appears a higher % of people felt like this.. which means FOX and Ridley have met their target.

Ultimately....

Take the Star Wars Original Cast from Force Awakens, with a new Cast....  and Have the New Storm Troopers look nothing like the Older ones...

And i am sure Force Awakens would have Bombed... well a bit.

Add Classic Xenomorph and Eggs, (at least 2-3) killing say 6-7 (not inc Chest Busters) in Prometheus and not have Engineers be creators of Mankind and just some Alien Race..

Then Prometheus may have fared better.

@Alpharius

Or just make Alien 5 instead of Alien Covenant...  but we have to remember Ridley had invested a lot of time in a Prometheus Sequel... including ideas, and even Production... before they decided to Re-write it into Alien Covenant.

Ridley while half way through a project, that was then re-done... could not just abandon it and then go... OK lets do ALIEN 5 he would have had to get the Draft done.. because there was no exact Draft just a 10 Page Idea... then it Shooting would have to go around Miss Weavers Schedule..

And at the Back of Ridleys mind, he wants to cover a Prequel.. why the Alien was made, how it ended up on LV-426 and Ridley is a big Fan off Fassbender..

And if you ever go back to doing a sequel to Prometheus after you first do a Alien 5, well Age would be against Fassbender... because well he is a Robot and Robots dont age..

So if he has 2 movies as a idea.. that will involve Fassbender, he would rather get these done within 4-5 years first...  and alas this is what we have.. Only they are bringing the Alien back into it... because it will make $$$$$$$

@Alpharius

I will add, that indeed i was looking forwards to more about the Engineers, and i dont want to give to much away.. but indeed once Alien Fans get every bit of information that leads to Alien and why/when and how the Derelict and Eggs got on LV-426

We dont know if any Sequels to Alien... yes Alien (from Ridleys comments) may touch again upon the Derelict, alternative uses for the Xeno DNA and Engineer Tech... i feel Ridley Scott in future will borrow more from Blomkamps Alien 5, than just the Name of that Movie (Alien Awakening)

So if this is the case, Fans would be interested about this Technology... imagine if they Reboot Aliens or do a sequel and Ripley (or other heroine) discover the Derelict and Merge with Engineer Technology...

This could lead fans to be interesting in this Technology.. who created this.. and if the Xenomorph came from those Urns and Stuff...  then maybe they would be open to explore and want to see what else this Black Goo does and then who would create such a thing and why.

Also after Alien Covenant... maybe some fans would go and re-watch or even for the first time go and Watch Prometheus.

Either of these above could one day get fans once they have their Xenomorph Answers and fix of Xeno after Xeno flick.... maybe they would go... What about the Engineers?

I think FOX will certainly see them return in Comics and maybe a Spin off Game... like the AVP Games and if they introduce the Engineers and alternative Xeno creations... this could get fans interested in the Engineers.

IN CLOSING...

Alien Covenant leaves me with a number of Questions, and inconsistencies with regards to what the Hell this Paradise was... and who those beings are..

so much that when you look at Prometheus... it opens up Questions and Points to maybe those Engineers in Prometheus, those beings in Alien Covenant.. are not just restricted to Paradise/Planet 4 and LV-223....   Certainly not from clues i see in Alien Covenant.  That could be Clues, or Plot Holes lol

Ridley Scott's comment that he would like the current film series to evolve into a 'War of the Worlds' , makes an impression that a cataclysmic species conflict is imminent.

I believe that we will see the Engineers return ... and in force.

There is certainly an opportunity for Ridley to divert from the 'Alien' mainstream to focus on the more intriguing potential of where 'Prometheus' implied the sequels would develop.

The Engineers are too important an element of the overall story to be discredited by mass market movie supporters. The Primarchs of mankind will not be denied their vengeance.

"Suffer not the Alien to live"

Ordo Xenos Inquisitor Helbeard

The more I read these comments and think about the subject of the thread the more mournful I feel, and I really feel like AC might disappoint, but not because I am totally expecting Prometheus 2 or anything.  The wait is still killing me though and I still wanna see it ASAP!

Agreeing completely with Michelle Johnston I'm left bored and disappointed with the film, he really did collapse under the pressure.

Could've been so much more, shame really.

I Hate these complainers!!!  Prometheus was a great movie!  Shut up already!!!

@ Jen

There is potential to change and explore some of the elements in future.. it depends where Ridley is taking us... for a lot of us though i feel the Novels are where we have to get answers.

It's sounding like Sir Ridley's lost the mongrel in himself.

But being 80 something it isn't surprising though.

A younger Ridley would have to the Fox execs where to go, that he's making a sequel to Prometheus to explore where the dreadnought came from who the space jockey was, and why the engineers hated humans. If the audience didn't like his vision then he'd be making the film for his own amusement!

All of course spoken through a barrage of four letter verbs. 

I think the real problem is the Fox execs are running roughshod over him, and he's resigned himself as being too old and tired to use the mongrel in himself to fight back and to make the movie he as a director wanted.

Meaning those who want the xeno get the xeno, those who want the greater vision don't, and that's the shame of it.

Reading these comments, it is obvious again, you can't please everyone. 

I dont think we can 100% Blame Ridley though...

If FOX wanted to change the direction and Ridley wanted to explore alternative uses of the Black Goo, and says look i will tease at the end how the Alien could have been created... but i want to save the Eggs and Xenomorph for the next movie.

And FOX said nope... we want them in this movie...  If Ridley said well nope i am not doing it...

FOX could just as easy go and get someone else to do it i guess.

I do however Question the Direction they have taken.... but i will leave these thoughts until the movie hits the USA for a few days.

It just sucks that Prometheus left these big questions at the end. Shaw and David traveling to Paradise to seek answers and knowledge. Problem is that David wiped out the Engineers/Humanoids and Shaw is dead. Basically just skipping this part and moving to the Alien. 

I love books but this should have been included in the film.

Hold on, Prometheus is a fantastic movie that expands our knowledge of one of the greatest franchises in all of movie history. "The beast" is not cooked at all, we have so much material for the Xeno. There are so many possibilities to explore the deadliest creature in the galaxy. I and I'm sure many other people would love to see the Alien go on for many years to come. Now you gotta reintroduce it to a more claustrophobic environment and do what was done with the first movie, where it is barley ever seen. The Alien will never be cooked and with new mythology coming from Prometheus, done the correct way the Alien can be used to scare the living shit out of people for years to come.

The only way i can think of for these changes are Mystery....

Alien left the Mystery... who was the Space Jockey, where did he come from, what was his race, why did he have that Cargo, how was he connected to that Cargo.... How did the Aliens come to be.   Plus if needed... what happened to the Space Jockey and where was he going/coming from and for what reason.

Prometheus tried to start to answer some of this.. opened the Door, showed Engineers was the Space Jockey Race... and Black Goo is a Bio-Weapon connected...

Prometheus left lots of Questions... that had nothing to do with the Xenomorph.

Why did they create those Outposts and when on LV-223?

Why did they create us or what role/connections they have?

Why did they want us dead?

Where else are these Engineers, what is their civilization and history like?

Why did they stop coming to Earth or check on the Progress of LV-223 Mission?

Who created the Engineers is their a creator above them?

What else have these Engineers and their creators created?

What is the whole Agenda of them?

What was the Black Goo, what was the Sacrificial Goo and where did these come from?

And then Shaws search for these Answers...

I do think now they are going to let these things replace the whole Space Jockey and Eggs Mystery... we will get our Space Jockey and Eggs Answers.... but then the Engineers and the above Questions will be left a Mystery...

Because maybe in hindsight opening the Door to explore the Space Jockey and Alien Eggs Mystery should have been left as such.

I will write fan-fic about Shaw's journey. As a gift for my beloved Prometheus. Seriously, I've already written it.

Fuck Alien: Covenant. Fuck those fanboys and Respectfully fuck everybody who abandons Prometheus's arc. 

The only solution I see is to let Ridley makes nex proyect, one way or another, he have his own concepts and ideas, retro, old-fhasion or not, but pure and original, as fan I am I have my own concepts and ideas, for example I do not like David character, but the question is: Do we can't spare him now?, maybe is so late.

Well BD I hope Ridley does get to explore those ideas. Hopefully he'll put down enough writings to allow other directors to follow many of these ideas if he himself is unable to.

The expanded Alien universe will hopefully get explored at some point without the xeno, so we are able to peek under the covers a bit and at least get a bit more than hints as to what was going on with the engineers, gods and other creatures prior to David.

From your other thread BD it would seem the backing into Alien isn't going to be what we were hoping for.(I hope I'm wrong on that!!)

I agree what the writer says. After all it is not that difficult to figure out Ridley Scott's logic behind the plot points in Covenant. He is literally killing all the engineers and Elizabeth Shaw, thus erasing his "mistake" while keeping the poetry reciting Fassbender because he is the critics' darling.

BigDave

"@ Jen

There is potential to change and explore some of the elements in future.. it depends where Ridley is taking us... for a lot of us though i feel the Novels are where we have to get answers."

I had just started considering that thought today. Particularly, the idea that the purpose of the novels is to ensure that the engineer content is covered/explained in case they don't get to it in a future film.

It's actually a smart move considering the current existing risks to the overall project. Not that I'm happy with it, but I will say, I'm grateful that the books are expected to give us this piece of the canon (assuming it actually covers David's transition). It's better than having nothing at all. Also the fact that we're getting that book in 4 months is in and of itself pretty fantastic. 

1. I had to miss my preview screening due to 'work commitments'.

2. I am one of those Prometheus haters, and it's not because it is lacking xenos running around. Its flaws have been well-documented by colleagues.

3. I am very satisfied Prometheus has been disowned by the Alien franchise. If you enjoyed it then you're more than welcome to it far away from Alien lore.

4. Fanboys are not looking to see more xenos. Fanboys are looking for a good origin story, faithful to the original film, on which apparently the new film doesn't deliver either.

5. Ridley has no real power. He doesn't have the clout or personal fortune of a James Cameron, for example. The studio will fire him if Alien: Covenant is a flop.

cuponator3000 - "its all about balance" ( just like every aspect of live)

phallic jaw - I agree "The mythology and philosophy of Prometheus were the most appealing part'- I think the part that upset most fans was the reveal that old man Mr. Weyland was on board.
 
Bigdave - lays out all the great questions of Prometheus

I compare the Alien franchise to a TV series. The anticipation of the next season is killing us all!!  Most of us have binge watched season 1 thru 4 (alien resurrection being season 4- which  sucked) then the prequel season - Prometheus, which was indeed great first chapter(season) of the franchise and opened the door for endless opportunities but wasn't well
received by enough fans because of the unknowns. 

Don't forget that Alien wasn't met with great reviews upon release because too many questions were left unanswered. And Aliens might be overrated, but without it, there wouldn't be an alien queen.

I think Covenant will be a crowd pleaser regardless of if you're a fanboy/girl, die hard Prometheus or Alien fan. We'll always leave the theater wondering "who are the engineers?
why this? why that?" but hopefully there will be a perfect balance of questions answered and questioned asked in Covenant.

The Xeno isn't cooked if its done right.
I cant wait to find out.

Prometheus was fantastic, Covenant was the mistake. Overall I like it but certain scenes really bothered me. The fact they explained NOTHING about the Engineers or Shaw was a mistake IMO but I understand why Ridley did it, to appease all the fanboy sooks. I just hope he touches on it properly in Awakening.

Is there a way to start a petition for Ridley to receive? To let him know there are still a few of us out there that would love for him to continue telling the Engineer & other humanoid origin story, more on the creation on the pathogen and it's purpose and potential. I was yawning for the entire third act of Covenant..

In my personal opinion, Prometheus would have still been a weak film even if they'd included xenomorphs, it just needed a good script. Alien Covenant may still be a weak film with the addition of xenomorphs. The problem is Fox are far too involved from a corporate and intellectual perspective and just like Star Wars with Disney, they will manipulate the production, spend millions on market research and advertising to such a degree that the director's, writer's and actor's input are redundant. They will pander to the masses rather than allowing the artists to create a soulful, original piece of art. 

Films like the original Alien and Aliens were punts on small budgets by young, hungry, directors. Much like Lucas with the original SW trilogy. You can't recreate the same magic when so much money is involved.

5 years ago Ridley Scott tried to expand the Alien universe and tell an origin story: Prometheus. I fell in love with this film. It was fantastic; a film based on a franchise I love, with something to think about. But instead of thinking, all the fanboys had a sook "Where are the Aliens?" And instead of continuing to tell this fantastic story, Ridley Scott was forced to give in to these idiots.

As a result, we've been given a convoluted film which tries to continue the story, 10 years after the events of Prometheus, however with a few Xenomorphs towards the end, completely shoehorned in for no other reason than to please the fanboys.

Unfortunately, this film is a mess.

Where are the Engineers? What happened to Shaw? Why the f*ck does the chestburster look so stupid? Did Ridley Scott forget what Kane's son looked like? 

I loved the Neomorphs, they were fresh. This film would've been great if it focussed on David, the Neomorphs, the Engineers and how their pathogen works. Instead it's just two hours of fan service with a few references to Prometheus. I've been counting down the days for Covenant's release the last three years, and have just walked out of my second viewing a very disappointed fan.

Ridley even said it himself, "the Alien is cooked", it has been overdone and this is evident.. They were not scary at all in Covenant. However, that in no way means the franchise is cooked; there are still plenty of aspects to explore in Awakening. Let me make myself clear - there are still thousands of us who want to see the rest of the Prometheus story.

@Fiorina161 - "The problem is Fox are far too involved from a corporate and intellectual perspective and just like Star Wars with Disney, they will manipulate the production, spend millions on market research and advertising to such a degree that the director's, writer's and actor's input are redundant."

This is so true, and such a shame.

Stan Winston (deceased) Exactly

Many of you have written ideas I agree with so not going to rehash them but my issues with Prometheus are pretty basic.

One, I liked it. I thought it was a decent sci-fi film and enjoyed its addition to the Alien saga. My two main complaints are it was edited in a very strange way. As if the work print was too expository so lets cut every little hint of explanation out to the point it confused more than shed just a little light on the Engineer-Xenomorph-Human connections. The deleted scene when David 8 wakes up the Engineer and the few extra things the Engineer says really opens up the story. Why was that cut?

The other issue I had was that Deacon popping out at the end of the film. Not that it happened, but when it happened in the film. It felt forced and also trite in the sense: "Hey audience! Don't forget this is an ALIEN film!" A couple engineers running around and one getting infected by the trilobite earlier in the film would have implied what happened to the Engineers on LV-223 by the reaction the other Engineer could have to such an event. The Deacon wouldn't even have to be stalking the remaining crew per se.

Im not a screen writer (obviously) but I was surprised at at a film with such cosmic ideas could have many of the ideas edited out. Someone on this forum said they hoped for a proper Directors Cut of the film. I couldn't agree more.

BZ

Prometheus was no mistake. FOX making Ridley cut it down to a formulaic 2 hours+ small change run time, thereby butchering a potential masterpiece due to edits was the problem.

Having to backtrack/re-route and totally change your vision was the mistake. We have the internet and it's sadistic mob mentality to thank for that.

The irony? Those same moaners will hate Covenant too!!

@B Z

The point you raised is a good one. You can find flaws in Prometheus in a number of ways and depending on what you do not like about it will affect your response to Covenant.

Some loved the grand ideas but recognised the execution of the film had flaws. 

Others just wanted the whole bad ass marines and xeno's and to kick butt and found the religious stuff a turn off. Well no matter how good Prometheus might have been it was not going to please those people.

I, and I suspect others, thoroughly enjoyed the open enigmatic quality of Prometheus whilst recognising the execution wasn't perfect. But I did not miss the creature.

So for me the fact that the creature takes over for the final third in Covenant in an extremely predictable way is of no benefit at all. I expected that but I did not expect the crucial 2nd act to yield so little.

All the other types of arguments (no helmets, stupid decisions, contradictory canon) actually apply to all the films and there are as many puzzling decisions in Covenant as Prometheus and they are bound up with story telling momentum. Thats not what Ridley is getting at, that will happen Xeno in Xeno out. He is making these films Xeno centric and I think a lot of the ideas pursued in Prometheus will wither on the vine that is the key message we each have to react to.

After Prometheus I was really intrigued to see where they went next. I can honestly say unless they give David a really powerful redemptive arc in the next film I am not really interested. I suspect we are going to get a literal prequel to A L I EN and that will be the only answer from the next film.

Ridley talked about the Engineers being only a superior species so who made them and it is quite a complex layered story well I got absolutely no hint on that. In terms of what I call the mythos this film was lite indeed almost non existent.         

Yeah, the title for this article is misleading and should be changed.

I am also holding on to hope that Ridley hasn't abandoned the larger and (quite frankly) more interesting themes brought up in Prometheus. You simply can't make 2, 3, or 4 sequels by repeating more Alien jump scares and murders. We (the audience) will get bored. We need to see more about the Engineers and other possible species and larger themes about humanities origins and place in the universe. And apparently he's taking it to "War of the Worlds," (something he mentioned in a recent interview) so it definitely sounds like he's looking at a much larger picture than just xenomorphs.

Prometheus was beautiful, I can't believe the "fans"(not really fans but are actually a**holes) would change Scott's mind.

It is horrible, people like the "fans" are how great things are utterly destroyed :(

I feel "Alien: Covenant" is the mistake.

Let him make us a film about the engineers without the humans showing us hero and naughty engineers.
The creation of engineers (Adam and eve) by an alien race never before seen with the origin of black oil.
(Here is what to do)

Tired of always seeing the same basic scenario with an exploration team that arrives on a planet to
Get attacked and kill by xenomorph.
But where does the black liquid come from, for even if David invents xenomorph, he has not invented the black liquid.

But disappointed Shaw's fate. David is the real bad guy.
I thought that the shock wave of the beginning of the film was an attack of an extraterrestrial war, and well no.
David pollutes the planets with the xenomorphs. It is David who amuses himself to create Xenomorph, while I thought that had to be the Space jockey who had created the xenomorph. But then what will create the Xenomorphs?
David (bad) vs Walter (good) (Cain vs Abel)
I did not understand how it was possible to have an alien in the mother ship at the end, it is David who contaminated it?
Is Walter really dead? , We do not know, even if David took that place.
If Walter is not dead he can always try to use the spaceship Jokey Spit by David?
The origin of the black liquid is still unknown.
Maybe there is another planet engineer more advanced in the suites?

Conclusion: in the whole alien saga, extraterrestrials do not exist,
Were hybrid experiments hybrid animal and human scientist Humain / robot crazy.

 .

I feel that anybody who didn't like Prometheus even one tiny bit, doesn't really appreciate film.  Pretend that it wasn't directed by Scott, pretend that it wasn't a quasi-"Alien" flick, and if one still doesn't find anything to like then maybe the problem is with them.  It was flawed, yes, but still tremendously entertaining sci-fi and just simply a good movie to boot.  There are many more "space" films that are so much worse, and at least it was better than those AvP disasters and Alien: Resurrection.  If you disagree then you must be one of those people that get off on mindless Xeno action, bad CGI, and bad popcorn stories and acting.  And if you do that's fine, each to their own.  I'm just telling it like it is.  Some might go as far as saying Prometheus was even better than Alien 3 but I think I would have to draw the line there.  Besides comparing Prometheus and Alien is kinda like comparing Apples and Oranges anyway.

Deacon, neomorph, xenomorph and after? We want new.

Show us a film with more engineers, their society, civilization, if there are kings and queen engineers, their mode of mating, their ritual, their technology, the space wars, and their extraterrestrial god never seen before As xenomorph).

Well i think it shows us that the fans are split, and i am glad that we are debating this in a more respectful way....

I think we have to respect every ones views and when we term Fanboys we have to remember its a phrase that cant be coined at all fans of Aliens, as there are different kind of what we can term Fanboys and not all of them just want Xenomorphs.

"I am very satisfied Prometheus has been disowned by the Alien franchise. If you enjoyed it then you're more than welcome to it far away from Alien lore."

Thats your opinion and its shared by quite a number of people, but this point and your next one... i will point out.. without trying to spoil to much that AC messes with the Alien Lore much more.

To be honest the only thing AC does different is gives us Alien Eggs, Face Huggers and Xenomorph but not in a way maybe some fans would wanted...  the acting is more believable but its far from great. Then the only Alien movie with Solid Acting is Alien, Alien Covenant is more serious than Aliens, and Alien 3 is more serious than Aliens a bit.

"From your other thread BD it would seem the backing into Alien isn't going to be what we were hoping for.(I hope I'm wrong on that!!"

This was my theory a long time ago... well 18 months ago, i thought they  will be giving us Xeno Fix and Answers, that would then get Alien fans interested and make some money and then leave them pondering more about David and Engineers and Prometheus and that then the next movie could touch upon events before Alien Covenant.... Ridleys comment a few months back about Alien Awakening being set before Alien Covenant did kind of add up to what i was thinking..

Sadly his latest comments seem to be going against that...

If i can be honest... i do wonder if Ridley is suffering from dementia at times, well he seems to make contradicting comments and its hard to really tell what his focus is...but maybe like David he is just playing a clever trick with us all.

In 2011, I told everyone I knew that Ridley Scott was about to return to science fiction with an Alien prequel exploring the Giger Space Jockey whose inclusion in the classic movie he fought for. I said "It's going to be the 2001: A Space Odyssey" of my generation." People online expected no less. I had not been so excited since hearing Lucas was filming The Phantom Menace.

I won't state the obvious. But I do want to say Noomi Rapace was, to me, just as good as Fassbender in the movie that turned Giger's freakish biomechanoid pilot into something less visually creative than the Borg in Star Trek: First Contact.

David apparently just wants to create monsters. The question becomes, why do they interest him? Why, in the future, is Weyland-Yutani more interested in the Xenomorph than in Engineer technology? The ship on LV-426 and its dead Jockey surely held lessons for human science. But, Ash "admired the perfection" of the Xeno. David obviously is the original source for Ash's agenda in Alien.

Shaw's death is way worse than the disposal of Hicks and Newt. "The Crossing" may be a lie, but Covenant could use the depth that would come from David going insane when his only friend somehow dies. From all I've read, David hates everyone except his monstrous creations. What does he need them for? He could just go back to LV-223 and get another ship full of vases. He wants to kill. Why make monsters?

I haven't yet read why David allowed Shaw's "Country Roads" transmission. I am so indifferent at this point, Shaw could have sung "All My Rowdy Friends Are Comin' Over Tonight" and I just wouldn't give a s**t or be surprised.

PROMETHEUS...

For me was a interesting idea, very big very bold and really potentially opens up the Alien Universe from being just a Aging Alien Monster that had only its Mystery Origins that kept its Enigma.

They way they handled its Origins was interesting, and brought us the Engineers who now they Xenomorph is merely just a Weapon a Creation, that the Engineers played a role in.. in that without what ever the Engineer was doing on LV-223 there would be no Xenomorph.   There is more to Mankind than Nuclear Energy/Weapons or indeed the invention and use of Gunpowder and so there is more to the Space Jockey Race than just the creation of a Bio-Weapon.

The Prometheus Plot, was Great, it was Bold, but it was not executed enough, it did not engage a lot of Fans of Alien, it did not give enough Xenomorph action, or clues.  It also suffered from some Flaws, Acting/Dialog that was more inline with a Super Hero movie than a Serious Sci-Fi Flick at times.

The Plot was bold, and interesting but its a tricky one... its really hard to do any Justice the whole Ancient Alien Creators... I think this is a major problem... as it was with my ATTEMPTED Prometheus 2 draft..

Covering the Aliens, Weyland Company was simple... for me covering the Engineers and History and Agenda was tricky and left me with so many possible ways to explore it that each kind of left with a few flaws.... THIS IS WHY we have had so many debates because of how many possible ways this part of the Plot could be explored.... i got it down to 3 possible ways but i liked elements of each but i could not incorporate all 3 ideas so i abandoned it.

I think this is the Problems FOX/Ridley had too, and so in part a reason why going the way they are now is a more simple...bit lazy and Shoe Horned route...

I WILL PUT MY MAIN ENGINEERS IDEA SOON...

"The question becomes, why do they interest him? Why, in the future, is Weyland-Yutani more interested in the Xenomorph than in Engineer technology?"

This could be going into Spoiler Territory, well in part my assumption.... 

David would have had many years of conversations with Weyland, about Creation, about how being a creator makes you superior and about when we all Die.. its our deeds that are left behind... when we die, its our children who carry on our legacy who pass down out relics and stories.... with no Children you leave no Legacy behind, unless you achieve other greatness as a Artist, Actor, Musician etc or some other feat that cements your name in the History Books.

All of Weylands accomplishments give him a Legacy and his Creation is the greatest of these...  Weyland would have made David realize that for Weyland he sees himself as a GOD, and he will make David feel that he is just a Tool, a Advanced Toaster if you would and that David while being Superior in every way, will never have a SOUL.. but the one gift he has is that he will NEVER DIE

So David is brought up with the notion of Creation, makes you Superior and a God, and as David is a creation he is not superior and not a God, while he is more superior than his creator.. David is advanced and has a lot of Human Emotions and he realizes he is more superior and yet is treated as merely a TOOL.

David through Weyland, will know that his creator has talked about Gods and creation and Mortality and Immortality and that while Weyland thinks he should be as a GOD because he has created life... he is not a GOD, because for all Weylands Technological and Genetically Achievements they are not the same Powers that the GODS had..... and the GODS were also IMMORTAL

When they meet Mankinds Maker... the Engineers, David finds out that actually Mankinds creators are only superior to Mankind because of their Technology, their Genetic Advancements (Stronger, and Living Longer) but they are not IMMORTAL

So these would be GODS... do not possesses the great Powers as the GODS are supposed to, they are merely Millions of years more Advanced than Humans... and they still are MORTAL after all.

so David with all of this on board and now he is Free... knows that the Engineers are not Special their Power is a Illusion and Mankind are also not Special... And if David can have the Engineers Knowledge and Tools, then he would rival the GODS.. he would not be a Strong but in every other way he is SUPERIOR...

So David finds out that Biological Humanoids are a dying Race, they are not as superior as Synthetics...

The only Thing David needs to do now to make him a GOD is leave his Own Legacy and Creation... and this is his Agenda and why he has Created the Xenomorph..

He also wants to use this to destroy Mankind because he sees they are a dying race, who are not needed no more.

=================================

THE PURSUIT OF THE XENOMORPH..

It would appear David has created Perfection, and we can assume by the time of Alien, the Engineers Technology on LV-223 is gone, and there is nothing of this left....  and Paradise is a World that again does not no Engineers, and limited Technology left and only Death.... Paradise will be a bit of a Plot Hole now..

LV-223 However is Logically where David will be going, its where he can continue his experiments, and ultimately a event must happen that renders LV-223 of no use to the Company and leaving the only Relic of the Engineers and Davids Experiments and Technology on LV-426

It still leaves us wondering... while being interested in the Bio-Weapon.... surely the Derelict is also important.

Not if some how either the Company is Ran by AI, or Ridley Scott Re-boots all the Alien Sequels.

Ridley, is a Great Movie Maker, he created Alien, please do not lose sight of that fact, the greatest alien Nightmare of all time that was followed swiftly by Aliens another amazing movie. Ridley, thought the goose was cooked, with an orange stuffed in its mouth, his take, after all he had made the best movie, how could he top that, alien 3 and 4 were dire, shame on the studios but we wanted more and finally Ridley decided to make Prometheus that left fans divided in the the main because they all had preconceived ideas as to how the story should go, myself included. But Ridley knows how to make great films but they were landed with a script that was somewhat lacking and included crazy scenes of cuddling an alien species, with characters that were just stupid, could we handle a 'Spock' who was stupid? of course not.   

Then there was the black goo, plot device?

The engineers, it all seemed to be way to convoluted and put together with a substandard script.

The trilobite scene, in fact all of the film was put together beatifically.  But the chest burster in aliens was believable and if you look back at Ridley Scotts artwork, his story boarding is just completely amazing, its awesome. 

But Prometheus, was so different to Alien and Aliens that it took a lot of fans by surprise,  as we expected dark corridors and Aliens and had the characterization, script and story been 'cogent' then yes absolutely a great idea, the problem was that things went wrong and  I honestly think if anyone out there seriously believes that Prometheus is a great move must have an IQ somewhat lower than Ridley or David 8.    

You know what people, I'm drained. We spent decades waiting and wishing for Sir Ridley's return. Love it, hate it or something in-between, many of us have spent 5+ years discussing, dissecting and analysing Prometheus because we know there is something interesting, intriguing and worthwhile contained within it. 

I have loved every minute of the incredible input the members of this forum have contributed. I appreciate each and every one of you regardless of which side of the fence you are on. 

Now, it would appear that Covenant is proving divisive too. I am on the fence at the moment, and I definitely need to see it again. I don't hate it, but I don't love it either. There were enjoyable aspects, but overall I feel it was a wasted opportunity.

I'm not sure I have the energy or heart to defend it as I have Prometheus. It's very hard for me to accept that because I don't want to dislike or be dissapointed by Sir Ridley's work.

Many of you know how I feel about him. It's pretty heartbreaking that he has now come out and said that he got it wrong with Prometheus. Badly edited, it is still one of his best films and I had hoped that one day it would be released in a restored version. If he is trying to distance himself from it I doubt that will ever happen!

Stan Winston (deceased) Well said.

I'm a Ridley Scott fan and I loved Prometheus because it's a visually stunning movie and an absolutely fascinating story (not just as a back story for Alien).  I also really hated Prometheus because the characters were badly written.  It detracted both from the new story arc (which I was excited about) and the overall movie itself.  Part of what continues to make Alien so terrifying is that the characters are so 'normal' - we've met the crew of the Nostromo at one time or another in our daily lives and maybe can even see some of ourselves in them and we get pulled in to what's happening in their world.  Not so much with the crew of the Prometheus - they don't really react to events as normal people would and oddly don't seem to really care when you'd expect them to, and if the characters don't then why should we care what happens to them?  The engineer story and the visuals are the saving grace of Prometheus and I really hope we get to see more of that (with relatable characters) in future movies.  At least in the clips I've seen of Covenant, so far it doesn't look like bad character writing/development will be an issue (fingers crossed) and I'm really looking forward to seeing it. 

Lone, I'm with you.  I probably won't be "defending" 'Alien: Covenant' like I did with with 'Prometheus'.  And I will probably spend less time trying to find out information on the next installment.  I too, am somewhat "spent".

Any film that is less than what I expected/hoped for can be a big enough let down such that it would likely be very difficult to bring my enthusiasm level back up for the next one.

I do wonder just how far the Alienverse has deviated from Ridley Scott's original vision back in 1979 - are the the answers we're getting in Prometheus, Covenant and (eventually) Awakening different from those he presumably had back when he created Alien? Regardless, Prometheus intrigued me, Covenant (aside from being a decent popcorn flick) frustrated me.

I feel that The Furious Gods backs up my belief that Prometheus had the potential of being considered a masterpiece.

Please try to see it if you haven't. It might even change the opinion of some of those who hate it!

@Lone 

A beautiful post and one that accords with the way I am thinking.

I think there will be a difference between our long term reactions to Prometheus and Covenant because one was genuinely enigmatic and designed to give us room to speculate and consider and the other is simply drawing in the horns I have described and turning all the back story into mere texture its to coin a phase by the numbers.

The fact that we would be uncertain of what was going on in Prometheus was planned. The distraction was the suitability of the crew and their behaviour but that was more about execution and that the Weyland narrative was not clear enough. Very quickly the same or similar critiques will appear regarding Covenant. However this is a modern phenomena where a deeply cynical audience looks not at the story and the mode of the piece but the mechanics failing to suspend their disbelief. In some senses, many senses, this crew was just as stupid and unprepared and the coincidences just as contrived. However what you may find is the really important difference with Covenant is you come to the conclusion I have that in setting aside all the audacity and world building and focusing only on David's arc, that Covenant is good, is ok, is routine but essentially passes you by until something really special comes along by way of a novel or music or any other art you enjoy. I do not think getting further into Covenant will yield much but I am very interested to read Alien Origins which may gave us the answers about what David found out about the Engineers and exactly how David and Shaw's relationship evolved.

Meanwhile we can cast our mind around as to who was on the tear drop ship, why Weyland's window view was part of the tear drops flight path, why did the Engineers leave for LV 223, how did their creators react to their behaviour, what was in the docking tug, what was the significance of the multi head room and how did the Juggernaut end up half way up a mountain and much more besides.   

The Alien series thrived on the unique and divergent visions that directors and their teams brought to each movie.  How many chances are we going to give Ridley Scott?  The series doesn't belong to him - it wasn't schemed up in the way that Lucas dreamed up Star Wars.  Scott is making it up as he goes along and now we find out that his whims are influenced by what eh reads on the internet.

Give Blomkamp or another young director with a radical vision a fucking chance, Fox.  Weaver has about 3-5 more years left where she could do this.

One crucial element though:  SLICE THE BUDGET IN HALF.

We don't need to see the Alien.  Directors are more creative on limited resources.  

And no way I believe that Blomkamp had only a 10-page treatment for Alien 5.  Scott himself said the script was "good" in early 2016!  

can't wait to watch it :D

double click,  

sorry

Ridley is operating in a bubble making some bad calls on scripts and scenes. Prometheus was great but misguided with several characters and other stuff. The lack of xenomorphs is just a way to dodge messing up the details. Vickers was useless and so many other parts were unneeded when we could have been learning through David what the engineers were up to. With Covenant people are saying the tone of the film is off-putting. I have not seen it but it sounds like penis cobra petting all over. Love you Ridley but step out of your damn elitist bubble on your throne and collaborate with common sense people. Jeepers, Guillermo del Toro would ace this stuff likely. That guy is down to earth and works with people. I just see Ridley barking that it's his way or the highway. #giant rolling horseshoe & magic mcguffin  goo

And if Michael Bay had made an alien film. I think it would be much better in numbers of scenes, speeds, technologies, and extraterrestrial concepts and ancient astronaut theory, because the Transformers saga is great.

----

Et si Michael Bay avait fait un film alien. Je pense qu'il serait bien meilleur en nombres de scènes , de vitesses , de technologies, et de concepts extraterrestres et théorie ancien astronaute, car la saga Transformers est super.

lol! @Centauri i love that double rainbow, double pot of gold! where is that filmed?

I don't want no more colonial marine bug hunt shooting galleries, aliens was a good action romp but its been done and anymore films like it would be a total bore and the franchise would die in the arse a miserable death.

Prometheus was a good story and yes it did have its flaws, what film doesn't?

I am off to see AC tomorrow morning and come what may, i will like the film just like i do with prometheus.

I found Prometheus to be a very intriguing film, one that kept me engaged long after I watched it. Maybe the average moviegoer is more interested in seeing the xenomorph run around terrorizing humans, but I think that idea is overcooked. 

In my humble opinion, I think Ridley Scott and company should focus more on resurrecting the Engineers and/or the species above them (if there is one), and play out a scenario involving them. Sure, throw a xenomorph in the mix, but it should be in the background of the story, not the central theme.

I've read articles online that suggest the whole intention of making Prometheus, Alien: Covenant, and the sequel(s) to come is to arrive back at the original Alien. Who gives a rat's ass about the original Alien? It's a movie about a space monster killing off its human prey.  

Just some other general comments. In one of the subsequent sequels to Alien: Covenant, I think it would pay off very much so to go back and give the audience more details on the Engineer's interactions with early humans. Also, they should at least give us some answers to the questions asked in Prometheus. What's the cave painting all about? What happened on LV-223? Why did the Engineers leave humans alone after that incident? Why no further interactions? 

As an added bonus, I would like to see an Engineer rip David's head off again, but this time shove it up his android ass. 

As for fans wanting to see the xenomorph again, I'm not sure I buy that. From all the posts I've read, and believe me I've read tons, the major complaint is that Prometheus was too ambiguous. I read that Ridley had a discussion with Lindelof regarding approaching the movie in that way and he wanted to do it, because he would answer those questions in the sequel(s). From what I understand, Alien: Covenant does not answer many of those questions. Instead, it's back to the monsters running around killing humans. You have David dropping the black goo on the Engineers (or a species related to them), completely eliminating them from the story. 

Someone once said "keep your expectations low and you'll never be disappointed".   Alien was a masterpiece and a very unique film experience. One of the challenges for Ridley Scott was taking the timeline backwards instead of moving it forward. The forward timeline has always been a "company" driven story line of basically obtaining the organism for the purpose of weaponizing it. Going back in time from the movie Alien and trying to explore themes such as creation and origins, you can box yourself in by worrying  about explaining too much and then provide too little, while trying to balance pace and action. Prometheus may have generated controversy, but it also generated $403 million dollars at the box office worldwide. It was easily the highest grossing of all Alien movies by more than double the next closest in the series. Outside flaws in execution, it was considered a commercial success. Some may disagree, but the movie was not about religion, but walked a fine line where religious interpretation and non divine evolved higher higher humanoids could exist simultaneously in answering questions of creation, origin, and purpose.  In some ways, this is represented by Shaw and Holloway, one to prove we were made by a god, the other out to prove religion is all wrong and there is no divine origin. This was the justification for going backward in the timeline and address the questions derived from Aliens. Prometheus in no way represents the starting point, the origins obviously happened thousands of years earlier, we are being spoon fed information, and that requires patience, which we really don't have, at least I don't. Prometheus is a bold idea, even though he leaves clues, he leaves more questions, and that is the hook. I saw Alien Covenant on Thursday. Without "dissecting" the movie by going into plot details, prior to watching the movie I got all caught up in the buildup, all the trailers, all the clips, images, articles, commentary, etc.... Yes the marketing strategy leading up to the movie did succeed in driving a lot of excitement and energized the base of Alien followers. That said, after seeing the movie, and many people may disagree, I think it had the effect of lessening the experience in a very measurable way. Don't get me wrong, it's a good movie, but in very general terms, it "felt" too familiar and formula driven. It could "out gross" Prometheus at the box office, but it shed little of any new light on the questions which were left unanswered. To a great extent, it represents a distancing from Prometheus by Ridley Scott, as mentioned in the well thought out posts in this discussion. We all know, at least from what has been divulged in the media, that these prequels must finish where Alien takes place. That is Ridley's sand box. I believe that Ridley is taking the look way home. As the first post states, I agree that it would be a misjudgement on his part to completely abandon the profound ideas he built in Prometheus. Alien Covenant does not have the answers. Also, the Prometheus character arcs for David/Shaw/Engineers had potential and could have been blended differently than the path which was chosen for Alien Covenant, preserving some of the interesting elements of Prometheus. This may become an underlying source of disappointment in the Alien Covenant story, at least it was for me. Part of the greatness in the story telling of Alien is missing in Ridley Scott's latest films. For example, in Alien, the characters demise was not really the result of obvious blunders. Muthur and Ash triggered all the events. A big criticism of Prometheus and Alien Covenant is having characters with such terrible judgement, such extreme obvious bad judgement. Is everybody in the future really that stupid? I don't think that makes good story telling. We are supposed to expect what is going to happen next. That's just lazy, sloppy story telling. In Alien, not knowing that Ash was a synthetic among the crew was brilliant. There was only one scene that was a little strange for me when I first saw the film, but the twist it caught me and everyone else in the theater completely by surprise. The synthetic should not be revealed so early on, you just know he is bad news and it makes the story predictable. The development of the Xenomorph in Alien was pure genius. Now you pretty much know what's coming, in increasing degrees of punishment. In Alien, the early loss of leadership and the resulting fear, terror, and the struggle for survival was executed to perfection. Its really hard to recreate this experience, and James Cameron knew well enough to go in a different direction and as a result he created a different experience which was just as satisfying. There were seven different versions of the original Blade Runner. Sometimes, in the pursuit of perfection, Ridley will tend to overthink himself. Blade Runner was an idea which was ahead of it's time, and a classic in science fiction. I hope Alien Covenant is a commercial success, for selfish reasons, to get another movie. In the future, from a story perspective, it concerns me that David is so central to the story. Again, it could become too predictable and repetitive. For the next movie, I think I'll aim low. 

PS: I am sure the Alien Covenant Blue Ray will have a Plethora of Bonus Material to "answer all our questions" again!       

SCREW THE FANS!  I'm not trying to devide the "fansbase"   But really,   I really am starting to believe you have the "ALIENS"   fanbase   just ruining creative, original storytelling.  

I enjoyed Prometheus.    Jesus Christ!     when Prometheus was being announced it was made clear that it was about the origins!  not just the origins on the xenomorph  but humanity as well and the first  event that an android becomes conscious and acts beyond its programming.         

When I saw the mural scene in Prometheus,   It looked like ridley was going to use some of the original concepts from obannon that the alien was more Sentient and had its own primal civilization able to have a social structure and build pyramids.    Then the egineers came down and took their unique DNA to be weaponized or for other agendas.

I think in all fairness a number of things effect the direction the movie Alien Covenant had taken, a lot has to do with $$$$ and if FOX felt that fans was taking more of a interest in wanting to see the Xenomorph back and indeed they must have gauged the reaction and Antiispation for Alien 5 compared to Prometheus 2, then they ideally thought they would need to bring the Xenomorph back into it.

I hoped they would be showing us this first, and it would then get Alien Fanbase back on track to seeing a Alien Prequel with more answers and then dangle the carrot that was Prometheus and Engineers in the hope that fans would then want to know their (Engineers) role in it all.

But it seems this is not the case now... and i can see that maybe its the whole complex plot and how do they bring them back into it while also trying to touch upon the Aliens and Modern Mankind (as no one wants to see a movie thats Ridleys Scotts Gods and Kings with Engineers).  So it was  very hard plot to cover.

But i think the route they have taken is a really Lazy Route that in hindsight i think has made the Franchise a bigger mess now...

But there is hope they can fix this...

A lot depends on the so called 10 Page Alien Bible that they made as a guide to the Franchise, and how much this covers the Engineers and Black Goo.  And if they will explore these things.

Like i said i dont think we can rule the Engineers out... the Comics are touching upon them... maybe some Alternative Universe Novels could do the trick.

And if they release Merchandise and more so a Game that includes them, then i guess they can gauge the reception of the inclusion of the Engineers in these forms... and from that see if there is a point Financially to bring them back into it.

But it appears the Franchise is now deemed to be about Xenomorph, and Ripley and well Crazy AI with a God Complex

While i dont want to make it seem like Aliens Fans in General are Thick.... which i dont think.... I will add that the comment that i think was referring to Prometheus and those who enjoy it as not having a High IQ is a mistake.... Prometheus is a movie that requires you to THINK.. Its a Movie that has many Thought Provoking themes... its also Ambigious and so it gets people to discus the Movie in greater detail than the other Movies.

Aliens did not leave much Questions, the only ones really being how did the Queen appear, and so was the Eggs on the Derelict laid by a Queen.... and What did the Company really know... and why 50 years after the Nostromo Indecent they did not seem to know much... yet Special Order 937 was issued 50+ years prior.

Aliens did not have the Mystery of Alien because it Logically carried on after Alien, so while Alien we was left to wonder.. what was the Aliens Purpose, what was it trying to achieve and then What was the Derelict doing with those Eggs, where did they come from and where did the Space Jockey come from.

Prometheus was meant to answer these and indeed its early stages it started to do so.... but in a few ways that divided some Fans.

*Space Jockey is a Space Suit.. but then Ridley had said this for a while. But many was always hoping it was a Skeleton.

*Space Jockey Space Suit contained Giant Bald Humanoids, this disappointed some as a very Human looking Race was not quite as Alieny and HR Giger as the Derelict and Xenomorph.

*These Humanoids played a part in the Creation of Mankind, and are who Ancient Mankind saw as Gods and where all of our Ancient God Mythos and Religons Stem from. Bold move but again something that took away the Alien Nature of the Derelict, its Cargo and Pilot.

*Ancient Cultures Mythos was highlighted but a lot of Biblical themes was explored. This is a area that i feel is a Big Sore Spot for those who dont like Prometheus, even those who do.. the Biblical themes was being pushed a bit to much and the whole 2000 years ago reason for the Engineers wanting to destroy us seemed going a bit to far.... and further taking away the Alien Nature of that Derelict and Space Jockey.

*Sacrificial/Black Goo.... as opposed to showing us Eggs and related experiments... a lot of Fans did not understand the concept and the movie did make it confusing....Alas it was a Ancient Tool that can break down DNA into a Mutagen that passes this DNA onto what ever it touches while evolving the Organic Life it touches best Traits....  The Black Goo was obviously (or not so) the result of a Xenomorph related Organism broken down by the Sacrificial Mutagen.

I THINK THE BIG PROBLEM...

Is how Prometheus handled all of these, they was ambiguous and the movie takes many viewings and debates before it starts to fit together, and its helped more when you read the Drafts by both Spaights and Lindeloff and see the Furious Gods Feature and all the deleted Scenes.

But for the average viewer... this is to much Time to Invest... the movie was too ambiguous for first viewing...

Show someone who has never seen the Alien Franchise .. Prometheus and even after a 3rd viewing they would not make much sense of it.....  Show it to a Alien Franchise Fan and they can make more connections but would still need a fair few viewings.

At which point the Edit/Cut of the movie, the disappointment of no real Xeno answers or Aliens in the movie, and the stupid things and odd disappointing Characters.. for a lot of people dont WARENT Multiple Views... which is  a shame as once you have seen it 5 times it starts to grow on you.

Evidence... with my First Two reviews of Prometheus

http://www.scified.com/topic/18899

http://www.scified.com/topic/18928

@Michelle Johnston

Your point of "how they handle David" in the next film or films is spot on what is troubling many of us Alien franchise fanatics.

Right now, and based upon statements made by Scott himself, the xenomorpgh appears to be being de-mystified by it origins and purpose, and David 8 is taking front and center as a Dr. Frankenstein figure.

I have to admit Michelle, I do love religious, moral and spiritual themes in film. We humans having been doing this for a millennia and I am a bit of a nerd since I enjoy reading theology and philosophy. That interest has always coincided with the central question of 'what is the xenomorph?' as fan of the series. Based upon the first 3 Alien films and Giger's art itself, the Lovecraftian perversions that haunt the screen clearly have a backstory that should not be boiled down to a simplistic explanation or understanding. I can't really write more without having spoilers, but you know the direction I am going here. The discussions of the Space Jockey/ Engineers being the fallen angels and the xenomorph being their creation is packed full of great ideas to be transferred onto the big screen. After May 19 I can dig back into this and I honestly still hope Scott considers some of the original ideas he put forth.

The story arc of David 8. I too agree this needs be handled well or its going to be a disaster. One, most people do not know the background of the story and I am not sure if it would resonate. The Western world has become strange philosophically on the cultural level and a story that warns of deep hubris and the altering of a created order and the moral judgments that follow might have a odd effect. However, and as you noted, it could also provide a powerful story set on how David 8 reacts to or possibly redeems his actions or his complete and utter failure to be fully human.

Time will tell.

BZ

@BD

The dilemma is a simple one. How do you make a sixth (or eighth) movie and make it fresh and innovative. The only way I know is through fresh ideas. To place the Xenomorph inside a broader based creation story was in retrospect the obvious footpath to take. Alien Covenant reminds us of that dilemma, if you let go of those fresh new ideas that you introduced to revive the franchise, what you end up with is something which is competent, entertaining, routine and the only fresh element is to answer one question, how mad can a robot get.

@BZ  

Many of those whom enjoy the movie acknowledge that David carried the story that is of course a very heavy responsibility.

It is worth looking at the film from the moment he joins the narrative because it is at that point that issues of pace, logic and circumstantial narrative begin to emerge. The film as we know ends with his importance undiminished.  

I honestly believe a movie about Engineers is a bad idea. What answers do you expect from such a movie? Or do you really started to believe that the Prometheus Engineers created the human race? Who cares for what reason they wanted to destroy the Earth? Do you really expect humans may reason with an Engineers'race? Just take the story for what it is, pure fiction, and whatch the movie for what it gives. If you want more speculations about ancient aliens just watch the series. Let the mystery remain unexplained and enjoy the show. Don't go to cinema to find out who created you. And please don't tell Ridley Scott what to do. If you don't like his cinematography just go see Transformers or Aliens, where a stupid Alien Queen takes the elevator.

Covenant very clearly zeroes in on the Xenomorph and its creation. I think the scope Prometheus offered us was cut short way too quickly. Unless left to be explored in the coming sequels, I really worry we won't get any further expansion of those ideas. 

Covenant is also very clearly a revenue engine. As I speculated back in 2015, Fox may have chosen to focus on the Alien with this sequel to beef up the series' value and to give Scott more wiggle room to explore his more profound concepts. With the backlash Prometheus received, Covenant will remind those who had issues with Prometheus, that the Alien still exists. Covenant is like a buffer I would say, to keep interest high so Scott and continue his original story. 

However his recent statements and the way they wrote off Shaw and the Engineer home world raises some doubts for me. 

I guess one of my biggest disappointments are that they built up the journey to Paradise so much. I had this grand, monumental vision of a huge planet populated by God-like Engineers, with biomechanical tech littering the planet's surface and massive, aw-inspiring vehicles and other truly Gigeresque, Alien technologies. 

But instead we were shown a relatively small city, populated by civilians, dressed in robes like peasants. We get no dialogue from them and they're wiped out in a flashback sequence which lasts a few minutes. 

It was so anticlimactic, but perhaps that's my own fault for building up such a scene in my head first. I just hope that kind of scale and vision are at the forefront with Scott's next Prometheus sequel. I don't really see myself having much interest for another Aliens style shoot-em-up thriller.

Let him make us a film about the engineers without the humans showing us hero and naughty engineers.
The creation of engineers (Adam and eve) by an alien race never before seen with the origin of black oil.
(Here is what to do)

Tired of always seeing the same basic scenario with an exploration team that arrives on a planet to
Get attacked and kill by xenomorph.
But where does the black liquid come from, for even if David invents xenomorph, he has not invented the black liquid.

But disappointed Shaw's fate. David is the real bad guy.
I thought that the shock wave of the beginning of the film was an attack of an extraterrestrial war, and well no.
David pollutes the planets with the xenomorphs. It is David who amuses himself to create Xenomorph, while I thought that had to be the Space jockey who had created the xenomorph. But then what will create the Xenomorphs?
David (bad) vs Walter (good) (Cain vs Abel)
I did not understand how it was possible to have an alien in the mother ship at the end, it is David who contaminated it?
Is Walter really dead?We do not know, even if David took that place.    

If Walter is not dead he can still try to use space craft Jokey Spit by David?
The origin of the black liquid is still unknown.
Maybe there is another planet engineer more advanced in the suites?

Conclusion: in the whole alien saga, extraterrestrials do not exist, Were hybrid experiments hybrid animal and human scientist Humain/robot crazy.

@Everyone,

It is said that art imitates life. It is also said that life begets life. It is also said that God works in mysterious ways.

Albert Einstein Quote. The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed.

None of our motives are pure only those of the one true creator. We all see and experience the world though our own mind how else can we understand anything truly.

Ridley is no different, he is made of flesh and blood. I think we have all been too hasty to cast judgment and doubt about his works of art.

The question I pose to all of you is this one. Do you think you could better? if you can you should be getting your meeting with the Fox executives and declaring your victory over Ridley's artistic visions.

 I would like to agree with everyone that the decisions to cast doubt on Ridley during the production of Promethious was a serious mistake by Fox. Considering it brought in almost half a billion dollars at the box office. To be sure it is the only reason Ridley is still in the game.

For all of Prometheus's flaws I care not; however, I warship at the altar of mystery because all would be lost without it. Think it over before you completely condemn Prometheus.

Here is an analogy: Suppose we are making a house and suddenly the bank says we have changed our mind. You have already built half the house. Then the bank says we are taking most of all the other materials you are using to build the rest of the house with. How would you react? How would you feel when they say now tear down what you have built and make our house? Does this sound familiar?

This is how Prometheus was made. Do not blame Scott for inconsistencies, plot holes, and all the other problems with its' production. Blame everything on the Fox executives.

Another thing to consider is that for all of Prometheus’ problems there is so much more to be in complete reverence of.

For example: the opening act was cut that way so that the audience would be more curious about the Engineers. It is called building suspension of disbelief. This is art and as such it is open for interpretation to be sure. If in the opening act too much is revealed about the Engineers the audience thinks I know too much already why watch anymore.

In Alien if you knew why they were going down to the surface of the planet what would be the point of watching the rest of the film.

Sure I was annoyed that the Prometheus crew fly down exactly to the where the Engineer facilities are and Dr. Holloway says “God does not build in straight lines.” How convenient this was but we really don’t care as an audience because we want to know more about those Engineers from the opening scene and all the mystery surrounding them. Brilliant! Genius is what I call it!

Have any of you ever seen anything even remotely similar to this first opening act. How many of you have made even one movie and yet you sit in critical judgement of Scott's' work as an artist.

The attention to detail and the CGI were flawless, a masterpiece which has been cast aside by petty critics and such. If Michelangelo and Leonardo Da Vinci were alive today they would be envious, and in awe of such creations so thoroughly terrifying and real. Film, painting, works in bronze all stem from one another and share common bonds.

It took Scott almost half a century of film making experience to get this one shot right and it is another example of his genius. It is another of my favorites.

Behold and learn! Play these scenes over again and compare and contrast them against other science fiction films. A lot of the petty worthless comments in here are just that. Talk is cheap. Scott proves himself time again by what matters most. His actions as one of the most honored and competent science fiction film makers is doubtless. Foolishness and haste go hand in hand as with so many of the commenters in here that are so quick to dismiss what they barely even understand.

This scene in Alien: Covenant is the finest work done in science fiction film. There is none like it in any film yet to date. It is an exceptional masterpiece and I knew it the moment I saw it.

David, Alien: Covenant “Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!” I would have paid the full theater admission price just to see this one scene such is Ridleys' mastery.

In closing there are just too many other parts of Prometheus that far surpass the suspension of disbelief that take you to places that very few art forms in this entire world can do so convincingly through the medium of film. Film is a canvas that comes alive in a way that other works of art cannot convey due to the nature of the materials with which they are constructed.

In no way what so ever is Prometheus a mistake! 

Do not let the actions of others cloud your judgement. For if you do you are the one that loses the priceless art that these films are made of. 

Obviously there were outside forces beyond Scott’s control when he made Prometheus. Scott was saying that Prometheus was a mistake because of these outside cuts to the movies’ budget. It was not the original film concept he wanted to deliver to audiences.

Dear Ridley, please reconsider the "high strangeness" world that is HR Giger.  Bring it back home.  I'm not interested in man's origins and Engineers that look like humans.  It's all just too mundane.  What makes something alien is how strange it is and not understanding it's motivations.  Going back to unravel a mystery is anticlimactic and repetitive.  Let's bring more mystery back and expand this universe because it can be so scary!  The feeling of discovering the juggernaut and Space Jockey in Alien was just so amazing!  It was nothing anyone had ever experienced before!  So damn exciting.  And when you reduce this high strangeness to a mundane humanoid life form, it's just so disappointing because the alien factor is completely wiped out.  It feels like we've been duped.

Please Ridley, bring it back.  Bring the magic back.  It's not too late.

We love you!

I'm honestly surprised the title of this article has not been amended.

Ridley never stated that Prometheus was a mistake. That is an extremely deceptive title and should be changed. Shame upon whoever wrote that.

Prometheus should have been David = the devil

Exactly @Patient Leech. I just saw A:C and thought it was awesome. I also liked Prometheus besides its many flaws. I guess fans were upset because Prometheus wasn't enough like Alien, and now people are upset that A:C isn't like Prometheus. Ridley can't win.

David may become the dead giant alien in the seat.

I've not seen alien covenant yet and I'm in no rush after the muddle mess that was Prometheus.  

And yes I add my vote to the fact that I really think most people upset with Prometheus didn't just want xenos injected back into the film and still no answers and it being a muddle still which people seem to be mentioning.  They would love Prometheus if they only made it all believable... scientists acting like scientists not kids like in Scooby doo. Yes a bit of xeno action can be fun and new types of creatures are needed I reckon but just carry on the epic story of why what where when with life on earth type stuff! Yes it's true there are some people that are xeno fans and want that but they are a minority. It's more about making it feel very real and shocking like alien...anyway I need to see the new one soon...

"Covenant is also very clearly a revenue engine. As I speculated back in 2015, Fox may have chosen to focus on the Alien with this sequel to beef up the series' value and to give Scott more wiggle room to explore his more profound concepts. With the backlash Prometheus received, Covenant will remind those who had issues with Prometheus, that the Alien still exists. Covenant is like a buffer I would say, to keep interest high so Scott and continue his original story. "

@Chris

Nailed it! That's exactly how I feel. If Covenant is succesfull, I believe Scott can do whatever he wants next time. Let's just hope he isn't kept on a leash by Fox.

I wouldn't consider Prometheus a mistake, sure it was polarising for fans but it presented a lot of new ideas to a franchise that really required rejuvenation. It added a lot more to the universe and presented room for new possibilities and stories. I also like Alien Covenant as well because we have the Xenomorph reappear but I think that had an interesting blend of giving fans more of the Xenomorph while still presenting something new. I would love to see Ridley do a prequel to Covenant that is more connected to Prometheus, I naturally also want to see where the story will progress from Covenant as well. I think there are a lot of interesting ideas to be explored from the things we were presented with in Prometheus and I would love to see them explored further. So can Prometheus be truly a mistake when it has brought so much to the universe and completely opened it up for further interpretation? I don't think so.

@Blueant

Wonderful post, and certainly Ridley Scott likes to put a lot of detail into his movies, they always look so Epic... YES there is the odd mistake as far as Scale (Space Jockey=> Engineers) that was addressed in the Concept ideas and drafts.. in Hindsight maybe some LOTR/Game of Thrones Trickery would have helped.

But still the sets of Prometheus were amazing, the look of the Engineers very Polished and Marble like.

I do think we need to remember Ridley Scott Ultimately has to abide by what FOX want, Ridley can have some weight on what he wants to do, but the Buck Stops with FOX

The ALIEN Prequel started with the Basic Idea of the Space Jockey and Cargo, and these things was to be addressed.

*The Space Jockey: What was this being, surely he is not alone, what its Race, what do they look like, why was they in that System and where do they come from... For a long time the Space Jockey was considered a Space Suit... but what lies beneath.

*What was that Ship for its Purpose and why those Eggs: The idea for a long time was a Bio-Weapon that must have been intended for some Conflict Far Far away... or maybe not?

*What connection does the Space Jockey have with the Eggs, where are they from: There was a connection, did they Create or Engineer them? Did they come across those Eggs.

*What is the Origin of the Xenomorph: How was they created or obtained and if obtained then from where and how.

THESE ^^^^ are the Reasons for the Prequel... the whole What happened to the Space Jockey and When maybe did not need to be answered as exploring the points above would answer a lot of it, as far as WHO they are, WHERE the Eggs come from WHY they had them on that Ship and WHAT is the Purpose.

Ridley had sat down with FOX and had some back story to these, and he then got Spaights in to come up with a Story we dont know 100% how much is Spaights idea, how much is Ridleys... I would however assume Ridley gave Spaights the ideas for Spaights to then write this into a Draft.

This then showed us the Space Jockey was Giant Humanoids, (it always was a Suit) but then the CURVE-BALL these Humanoids played a role in the Creation of Mankind, (among others)  and that all Religions and Ancient Mythos are just Mankinds interpretations from visitations by these Humanoids. Who then left Star Maps Leading to a Star System these Engineers had came from or was important for some reason.  They showed us these Engineers also had been experimenting with different versions of Xenomorph Organisms and Experiments and intended to use them on Mankind... 

The Humanoid Appearance, may have split Fans, the whole they was the Gods Angle may had Split Fans, but this is what Ridleys Vision was... Chariots of the Gods. They Religious Themes also maybe a bit too much.

FOX however saw the Great Potential in such a CURVE-BALL that they felt this is maybe whats needed to be covered more, and maybe we can show the Xenomorph was a Experiment conducted on that System (Zeta 2) without having to show the Eggs and Xenomorphs, but to explore the broad theme of a Ancient Creator Race who are Genetic Gardeners who create life, but then also for some reason create Weapons to Destroy Life.

Ridley kind of warmed to this idea, because we have seen the Xenomorphs, we have not Seen the Space Jockey, and so they could explore the Engineers, while giving us clues to Xenomorphs that may set up for more complete answers down the road.

So FOX had some input... but Prometheus still held a lot of themes that Ridley had, only withholding the Xenomorph but teasing these Engineers indeed are connected to it.

This unfortunately did not sit well with some Fans...  and in Hindsight the Draft of Lindeloffs had some flaws, but also improved on some flaws... the execution however was poor... things not thought out well enough... some Characters and Dialog that was a bit cheesy, and fitted more with a Super Hero Movie or toned down Star Ship Troopers...  but ALIENS was also a bit like this just done better....  instead of ALIEN and ALIEN 3 and its more Serious take on Characters.

The Movie thus Polarized the Fans.... a lot of criticism came its way, for a number of reasons... and No Xeno Origins or Related Monsters and Horrors was one of those..... Blomkamps Alien 5 was getting more Anticipation..

FOX Ultimately must have felt a Alien 5 would make more than Prometheus 2 and instead of doing Alien 5, they went with Ridley Scotts prequels but just decided that we need to have Xenomorphs and explanations a bit more.

so Ridley Scott had to think about what was missing, what would have made Prometheus a bigger Hit, was it in hindsight to had changed the Xeno connections and have Xeno Monsters from Spaights draft to just vague clues.. a Mistake?

In part Fan Reaction and FOX thinking what would sell more $$$ made Ridley realize changes had to be made...  IF the Xenomorph could be brought back but in a way Ridley can control it then maybe this is what is best.... Ridleys "they want Aliens, ill give them Aliens" to me does seem Ridley while he may have linked to them eventually... did have bigger plans for where Prometheus was going.

So INDEED... Ridley needs to not be given all the Stick.. for Alien Covenant's changes...

@Chris

I felt similar, but i have more concerns now that indeed Ridley is seemingly showing us that the Next Movie will indeed be a Direct Sequel... that will link to ALIEN.... but i think FOX and Ridley will Gauge the Reactions to AC and the NEW CURVE-BALL

But after throwing the Space Jockey = Giant Humanoid Gods who Created the Black Goo from a relation to Xenomorph that some way either leads to the Xenomorph, or had done in the past...

Now they have U-Turned with the AC Curve-ball i cant really see them going back on that to go back to the Original Idea... but it cant be ruled out.

AS FAR AS...... Could any of us do better Comment.... I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE THAT A GO ;)

On a Topic yesterday, i had a way to explain some discrepancies

*Why Black Goo seemed to Burn the Engineers and Mummify them

*Why/how did the Juggernaught Crash

*What was the Docking Scorpion Ship where did it Go.

*Why those beings did not quite look like the Engineers in Prometheus and why they reacted the way they did to the arrival

*Why the Space Jockey seemed Ancient.

I have a Plot/Idea that will answer those... tie in to Paradise which is the Place where Mankind was Created, not the Place the Gods came from, but a Place that a Cast of Angels was to Guard and Watch Over the Cradle of Civilization and Mankind... before a Rebellion/Fall.

My Idea ties this in, while still leaving the David Curve-ball, and fits in with LV-223, also Hall of Heads (Elders) and the Hanger on Paradise that had those Statues that was like the Buddha Offering Statues.

I will add this IDEA to a Thread... maybe next week so as to not have Spoilers... or just label the Tread for only for those who seen AC

I think Prometheus is great so I guess I must have an IQ less than Ridley and David 8 and I'm perfectly fine with that.  I think they are both highly intelligent people and so I am quite happy to be just "intelligent".

@Patient Leech

I take your point that Ridleys remark is not an all or nothing one, you are correct. The core message of his remarks is that not placing the Xenomorph at the centre of the story is now considered to be a mistake. The problem is this has substantial implications for the OVERALL effect of how the movies progress to back into A L I E N.

So now with Covenant out we can see both what is his intent was and how that affected the outcome. Here is the effect of that intent. Obviously this contains SPOILERS :-

1) The entire back story of the Engineers and the creation mythos is reduced to texture. It does not influence the story, it is simply what we see in the visuals, no member of the cast even considers what it all means except who destroyed it.

2) None of the questions raised in Prometheus are answered except to confirm, what those who paid attention knew, the Black Goo is the creative spark of all Alien outcomes it is the ALIEN PATHOGEN.

3) David/Shaw is a mixture of confusion and discarded. Forgetting the elements of Shaw in the short which is not part of the film :-

a) The general audience has no idea how David was repaired, and that out of that, the clarity of his feelings emerged. 

b) All of us have no idea the circumstances of the transmission of the message by Shaw or what changed in the David/Shaw relationship. (I am hoping this is the material covered in ADF's book) 

So in summary he may have felt leaving out the Xenomorph was a mistake but that decision has had huge implications for the overall trajectory of the follow through to the point that he has reduced all the investment in the Prometheus story to how it relates to David (Weyland and Goo).

Chris has indicated that he is concerned that all those elements have now been discarded and we are simply going to receive a David centric story backing into Alien. To now turn round and use the story blocks ignored in Covenant seems extremely unlikely. (just as fans speculated we would return to LV223 they will now speculate we will return to Paradise, story progression does not work like that unless you are returning home) Ridley has said he now wants to let the Xeno's begin to detach from David and run amok I can see exactly where that would go and who would end up in the Jockey Chair and frankly that kind of by the numbers, working through gore, movie is for me of little interest. 

So for those who say he cannot please everyone you are correct. Prometheus was a huge expansion and had great potential which has been snuffed out in favour of a tired formula. The ones who want the former who liked the direction we were going in despite its flaws will now be very disappointed. Those who want to go to the movies to be entertained and see the same film made over and over again will be delighted. That is not a criticism of anyones view point I am simply recognising that where a "Franchise" exists there will be two quite separate views whether its an ageing rock band or cinema. Lets hear the old tunes verses give us something new to think about. My observation of this kind of thing suggests Ridley is right to ignore my needs far more people want the familiar rather than the audacious and demanding.   

I'm 44, grandpa took me to cinema to watch Alien when I was 7. Not American and didn"t understand language, nor could I read then. I was stunned in awe. So was may grandpa, we both loved it and talked a lot about details in movie and evolution, got my biology knowledge before school (In Europe starts with 7). Then the crappy sequels came, but I still hoped Ridley would do another. First I watched Prometheus bad copy synchronized in Russian (couldn't understand anything) and without subs, and felt like a kid again. Then in cinema 2x and liked it little less when I could hear the script. Still, breath of fresh air in the sea of garbage. And now this "covenant"? What is this? Evolutionary regress? Scott is in financial and general direction crysis? Terrible, without imagination, average action movie, after Prometheus, this? An action movie? Just sad. Prometheus was creative, this is not 0 but -10. Some people loose creativity with age, this is an example of worst possible decision making. This movie will not endure the test of time. Hope is in the trailer of Shaw and David travelling to Paradise. Someone will continue in that direction one day. I wanna hear about engineer ways, who cares about human settlers?

I also would assume the "engineers" lived in very sterile , bright ,futuristic conditions and not like the peasants described wandering around i robes in a dark, sad world. They really need to go beyond this, and it would be a shame if Shaw never lived long enough to experience it.

They are not engineers they are festers. Scott did the link to the Adams family... Adam and the garden of Eden... the first human.  See it's all there teehee.

was very amazing movie alien covenant but i want to see more engineers in next movie or some fresh monsters

Ridley, is right, Prometheus was a mistake, in fact the sum of a bit too many mistakes mainly from him.

The movie was flawed in many ways.

First, how such a great director could accept his vision to be denatured that much ?

James CAMERON was in a similar situation with Titanic, yet he didn't let the studios denature his vision and finally one of the most successful movie of all the time.

Was Ridley forced to accept to have his vision distorded ?

Didn't he have the guts to fight for it or did his vision itself was flawed ?

Second, what are the characters so bad and inept ? Why were such great actors used so poorly ? Was it also Fox fault or what is a flawed direction ?

Why such great actors as Idriss Elba, Noomi Rapace and especially Charlize Theron potential were wasted ?

Third, the concept of the Engineers itself was underwhelming in the movie. They were more or less giant stronger human instead of the strange humanoid lifeform expected.

Nothing was shown to demonstrate that the Engineers is a significantly advanced species compared to human, either in the behavior of the remaining Engineer or in their technology. I didn't expect to see a space Jason but rather a mysterious but very sophisticated  being who would not be that vulnerable, they  got access too easily to him and could have killed him in his cryosleep, and who would used something else than his bare hands to kill intruders. In 2001 the Space Odissey, noone could have even a doubt that the monolith builders are much more advanced than humans and 2010 even made it clear that their capabilities are beyond comprehension. Something should and could have been achieved with the Engineers.

So sure the movie is visually beautiful and you get a better understanding of the movie after having watching it several times but the acting, the characters, the pacing and the script are extremly disapointing . So the overall artistic aspect of the movie is rather poor according to me. And a great director should at least provide good acting, and pacing even if the material at his disposal sucks. And this is what annoyed the most about this movie. I think that a director such as James Cameron could have done much better in similar conditions and/or with similar material. 

A KING REIGNS THEN HE DIES.......IT IS INEVITABLE

...I think Ridley is on this treshhold. AC is a total failure if you ask me. Xenos, Neo's, gore, blood its all in it, satisfying the hardcore Alien fans but not the Sci-fi community.

Prometeus was an insult to the inteligence of this community not to mention the two dumb scientists and many other loopholes! It asked the right questions but gave no answers, neither did AC . Acting, leaving Fassbender aside, was very poor.

I left the theater frustrated in Prometeus, AC it was total anger.

I guess we wont be seeing the engineers and the answers we expect on creation anymore, the vessel, with David on board is now on route to another planet. 

Just to give you an idea of what I mean ; when David finds the crew and takes them all to his hideout in the city....they all pass thru hundreds of dead bodies of the engineers....NOT ONE SINGLE SOUL asks the question; who are these guys ?!!...where are we !?......pathetic.

Time for Ridley to hang his coat.

Could people please pay attention to what Ridley said he did not say Prometheus was a mistake he said that leaving the Xenomoprh to the edges of the narrative was a mistake.

People can go on with no straight lines, helmets off and incautious gay botanists buts that not the issue and nor are they matters he is trying to put right in Covenant. Indeed if I wanted to sit down in the cinema and treat the movie as if it was a public information film about how to respond to risk manage situations I could come up with just as many dumb moments in Covenant as Prometheus and indeed the great classic A L I E N has its dumb moments to if thats what distracts you.

The point of this article at the very point that Covenant is released is highly prescient and rather than repeat points I have already made take a read of this

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/alien/feature/a827734/alien-covenant-prometheus-apology/ because it covers the issue above and Ridleys reaction and the consequences for Covenant perfectly.

Honestly, ANY discussion about Prometheus/Covenant's place or "meaning" to the ALIEN story is USELESS untill we have the whole series finished. No matter how much FOX studios has the last word and the budget/fans thing, the fact that Ridley is writing a sequel series means he has it like episodes in his mind, which means they all ties up in the very last one.

By the way, I have watched Covenant last Friday. It's awesome. Obviously it has some very small points I dislike, but it's not my movie. I'm not a director. I'm the fan. And again - It's awesome. We should stop saying s*** and shout a very damn big THANK YOU, SIR RIDLEY! That was my feeling while exiting the cinema, and that's my feeling about the entire franchise right now.  

Any great "ALIEN" film should look to balance the Mythology of the
beasts' (Xenomorph) saga with practical/physical & special (cgi) FX.
I Want Story & I Want Acid Blood All Over The Place!! =) In the end
I know Mr.,Scott will never let me down. I've loved every movie he has
done so far,..

"Could people please pay attention to what Ridley said he did not say Prometheus was a mistake he said that leaving the Xenomoprh to the edges of the narrative was a mistake."

Indeed Michelle people can take Ridleys comments out of context because he does put some confusing comments down.  The interview with Ridley Scott reads... that Prometheus made a few Mistakes, not that the whole Movie was a Mistake... it seems Ridley is explaining the decisions that the Space Jockey Curve-ball and Philosophical and Creation Themes, that Arc to setting up David are what is more interesting than having to Spoon Feed Xenomorph's... so the changes they made from Spaights to Lindeloffs drafts..

So now Ridley in Hindsight feels its a mistake to have left the Xenomorph connections out.... i DISAGREE in Part we did not need the Xenomorph the Beast was very Cooked... but what they needed to do is give us something a bit closer, and having something close to the Xenomorph pose a Treat... for Example like the Neomorphs.... if AC these creatures just Burst out their victims and ran off into the sunset... then AC would have suffered.. the only saving Grace then would be we would have seen them as connected....  A few changes to Prometheus in Hindsight could have made a more Alieny Movie.

My Edit of Prometheus Drafts Actually give more clues, and introduce some Alien Treats...  if Spaights draft was say 10 for Aliens and Prometheus say 1 then my re-write has about 5/10

As far as your Previous Post Michelle i applaud you.. as you hit the Nail Right on the Head.

I hope no one takes this as a attack on opinions, i am just trying to showcase a few things that IMO go against the following.

"Nothing was shown to demonstrate that the Engineers is a significantly advanced species compared to human"

The Sacrificial Scene hints to being set a very Long Time ago, the whole Star Maps show that these beings have Achieved more Advanced Space Travel than Humans in the Alien Franchise at least Thousands of years prior, 35'000 Plus... more when we consider the Sacrificial Scene.

Genetically they are Stronger than us, and throw Humans around like Rag Dolls, their Suits are able to withstand Wounds that would kill a Human, they have Merged suits with their bodies and achieved Bio-Mechanical Status.  They have extensive Genetically Engineer Knowledge and they also Live for Much longer than us... The Fact they have not Evolved much in Millions of years means for their Purposes they have reached Genetic Perfection.. Many Organisms on Earth who have not Evolved in Millions of years too.

There Ships Navigation has maps to Galaxies and so they truly have Mastered Space Travel... beyond even the means of Races from Star Trek Universe. 

"I didn't expect to see  a space Jason but rather a mysterious but very sophisticated being"

Yes the Engineers seemed to not have that very Alien look of the Space Jockey, but we have to accept its a Space Suit, and now that inside the Derelict is a Human or Android and Ridleys Comment to me actually seem to show us that his Plans are Actually to give us a Friday the 13th in Space with what 6 Alien movies about the Alien and only One more about the Prequels... the Beast is not Cooked no more... sorry when he has finished it wont be Cooked it will be Cremated.

"could have killed him in his cryosleep, and who would used something else than his bare hands to kill intruders"

Indeed they could have attempted that, but then we need to remember the main Mission was for Answers... Shaw and Holloway was disappointed these Engineers was all dead, until the discovery David made... Weyland funded the mission he thus is in charge and he wanted to wake the Engineer up for his own Agenda...  Shaw, Holloway and Weyland would not have wanted the Engineer Dead.  And David seemed Fascinated by them and would have loved to had spoke to them which would give him great Power because only David can speak to Mankinds Gods... and if David knew of the Risks.... Well he did also say "does everyone not want their Parents Dead" and AC shows us Davids Discontent for Mankind.

Prometheus turned a wonderful Giger universe into a film of boring human issues like, where did we come from and the Space Jockey was actually a large, translucent white man in a bone suit.  Just so sad.  Face in hands, head shaking. BORING!!!

If you look at Giger's work, you can see it is very Borg-like.  Bio-mechanical life-forms growing from a larger bio-mechanical world.  Even the Juggernaut looks like it had grown that way.  IT'S SO ALIEN!!!  This marvelous idea has been practically erased, almost losing the concept completely, making it so people can relate to a white, mundane, humanoid engineer. 

The original Space Jockey was a HUGE creature growing out of the seat.  Period.  It wasn't a large white man impersonating a moving Greek statue in a bone suit.  Alien will always be a stan-alone film.  Nothing before it, nothing after it.  The series is cooked!  Unless you really enjoy mindless repetition.  Repetition.  Repetition.  How similar are these movies now?  They simply echo each other.  I want out of the echo chamber!

Ridley is a fantastic artist and filmmaker.  Let's put the art of the story back where it belongs! 

A better route would have been to respect the bio-mechanical world and explore it's behavior.  A great idea that would have been canon to Giger's Alien universe would be a combination of the hive-like Borg mixed with alien abilities from The Thing.  Discovering their world would be AWESOME!  

"I hope no one takes this as a attack on opinions, i am just trying to showcase a few things that IMO go against the following."

I have no reason to consider what you said as an attack on opinions as there is nothing looking like an attack in your post.
In fact you are very respectful personn. And i will be as respectful.

"The Sacrificial Scene hints to being set a very Long Time ago, the whole Star Maps show that these beings have Achieved more Advanced Space Travel than Humans in the Alien Franchise at least Thousands of years prior, 35'000 Plus... more when we consider the Sacrificial Scene.

Genetically they are Stronger than us, and throw Humans around like Rag Dolls, their Suits are able to withstand Wounds that would kill a Human, they have Merged suits with their bodies and achieved Bio-Mechanical Status. They have extensive Genetically Engineer Knowledge and they also Live for Much longer than us... The Fact they have not Evolved much in Millions of years means for their Purposes they have reached Genetic Perfection.. Many Organisms on Earth who have not Evolved in Millions of years too.

There Ships Navigation has maps to Galaxies and so they truly have Mastered Space Travel... beyond even the means of Races from Star Trek Universe. "

Yes there are some aspects of their technology which look impressive and they are stronger/more powerful than humans.
But nothing about them would take more than a few centuries for human to equal assuming the progress of humanity in mere decades.
Moreover their warship seem less powerful than a human warship as i don't think that a human warship would be as easily shut down by the Prometheus.
[Spoiler]And last but not the least for a billion year old space faring race they look extremly primitive.
The monolith builder of the Space Odissey or the Aliens from Contact or the one would build the wormhole from Interstellar are what i would consider advanced species.
[/Spoiler]

"Yes the Engineers seemed to not have that very Alien look of the Space Jockey, but we have to accept its a Space Suit, and now that inside the Derelict is a Human or Android and Ridleys Comment to me actually seem to show us that his Plans are Actually to give us a Friday the 13th in Space with what 6 Alien movies about the Alien and only One more about the Prequels... the Beast is not Cooked no more... sorry when he has finished it wont be Cooked it will be Cremated."

Yes the Xenomorph is cooked because besides Cameron with the queen, almost noone included Ridley has tried to develop the Xenomorph beyond what is showed in Alien.
It is almost the same scenario, the egg, the facehugger,the chestbuster and the xenomorph. Nothing about what happen to the xenomorph after decades,hundred of years.
Nothing about how a hive evolve with thousands and more individuals.Nothing about how xenomorph could be planetary threat when they are hardly a threat to prepared and correctly armed marines,etc... In fact we know almost everything about relatively young xenomorphs but not that much about hive and almost nothing about much older/experimented xenomorphs. And i think there are still a lot which can be showed and developped around xenomorphs.

"Indeed they could have attempted that, but then we need to remember the main Mission was for Answers... Shaw and Holloway was disappointed these Engineers was all dead, until the discovery David made... Weyland funded the mission he thus is in charge and he wanted to wake the Engineer up for his own Agenda... Shaw, Holloway and Weyland would not have wanted the Engineer Dead. And David seemed Fascinated by them and would have loved to had spoke to them which would give him great Power because only David can speak to Mankinds Gods... and if David knew of the Risks.... Well he did also say "does everyone not want their Parents Dead" and AC shows us Davids Discontent for Mankind."

I think that you misunderstood what i was trying to say.
I didn't mean that they wanted to kill him but that they could have easily killed him if it was their intent.
Their defensive mechanisms are almost inexistant either to protect/preserve their military facility or to protect themselves against intruders.
I assume that they have no ennemies either from their own species or from another space faring species.

The Engineers

One of the critiques of the Engineers is that they are not as formidable as an adversary and as the Space Jockey race they are a let down. This is to me suggest that people have missed the point and view them simply as a design issue and as an instrument of horror to be compared with the Xenomorph. 

They are central to the creation myth from the magnificent open pages of Prometheus through to their beautiful and rich cultural iconography in both P. and C. By making the connection with mankind and playing them with as alike but unlike their potential for threat is much broader and sophisticated than the endoparasitical species. As I have said before their threat was existential and without the bravery of Janek 6 billion souls would have perished or is that not threatening enough. 

However in reacting to a part of the fan base Ridley did not take Elizabeth and David to a live living hell of immense power he took us to a dead world where their instruments of destruction were turned against them.  

The stark and unique way in which they are presented in Prometheus gives them the feel of an otherworldly knights templar and the use of hologram technology shows their knowledge is iceberg like and when it is revealed as in the orrery it is magnificent and impressive. A perfect and surprising mixture of the stark with a monastic like feel matched with technologies which can barely comprehend. A small example being the holographic key to the door of the headroom and the changing murals inside. 

Their threat to mankind is far greater and more far reaching than the localised horror of the 121. The beauty of the scene of armageddon unleashed and its aftermath in Covenant indicated they had harnessed extra ordinary power which when unleashed made the 121 look like a minor localised threat and indeed is a small part of the outcome of the Alien Pathogen.   

What made LV223 so fascinating was that it was evidence of the perfect morality tale. This wise and terrible species who were chosen to procreate entire planets through sacrifice began their own sub creation and in the process uncovered the ALIEN Pathogen which destroyed them. That like many great civilisations reflects their hubris and vain glorious behaviour because their own power bewitched them. All of this delving into a range of  philosophical issues and providing back ground to a creature who  was simply an act of creation for its own sake without a moral purpose was an intelligent and interesting rebirth rather than attempting some forlorn and baron attempt to reinvent the creatures reproductive system.

To say that Cameron was the last one to move it forward by introducing the Queen is to look at the thing from a narrow perspective with no vision. Being obsessed with monsters and their design is not the point of the prequels. It is to grow the IDEAS around the original concept to make us THINK not how many more ways can a parasite exit a human being.

I went for my second viewing this evening knowing what I was going to get and focused on what was there rather than what was not there and whilst much has been lost from the enquiry set up in Prometheus what remains is still fascinating.

Davids capacity for creation against Walters remit simply to serve really struck me this evening and the underlying and constant thread of creative intent from the prologue until the scenes in the second act had much more power and resonance for me.

In that second act David also deals with two dichotomies :-

1) That he is immortal and creative and left alone with that creative instinct he had to expand on the curiosity we see in Prometheus it is a compulsion.

2) That need to pursue his creative instincts however is in sharp contrast to his unique capacity, as opposed to Walter, to feel and indeed to love. What I noticed on this second viewing is the terrible conflict within him between his very real love for Elizabeth and the fact that he destroyed her. It is a horrible extension of the notion that those who we love the most we hurt the most and that juxtaposition of Davids obsessive desire to create and his unique feelings for her created real conflict which we saw expressed in the most profound and intimate way.

For me these issues show that Prometheus is in part alive and well and Covenant has avoided just being another bug hunt. At some point David will meet his match but then equally he may end up being revealed as head of the science division of Weyland Yutani in 17 years time but one thing is for sure his journey is a damn sight more interesting than the nasty little f....s that he has created.   

"To say that Cameron was the last one to move it forward by introducing the Queen is to look at the thing from a narrow perspective with no vision. Being obsessed with monsters and their design is not the point of the prequels. It is to grow the IDEAS around the original concept to make us THINK not how many more ways can a parasite exit a human being."

Apparently, you did not at all understand what i was saying here.
I don't care of how many more ways a parasite can exit a human or an host or how many more ways a Xenomorph can kill a human.
The ant is a fascinating animal and there are a lot of things which can be learnt by studying them. They're are not just mere insect but one of the most obvious example of what a hive mind society can be. They build complex structures, do complex wars,farming,etc...
In the same way,on can wonder if the Xenomorph is just a killing machine, just a monster with a parasitic phase or is there or could be there more to it than that ?
The queen bring something new as it underlines the concept of hierarchy and of hive to the Xenomorphs. Yet, there are still a lot of things which can be developped regarding the Xenomorphs:
How do they age ?
Are there other steps/phases in their lifecycle ?
Did they become sentient later and if so are they capable of civilizations ?
If yes what kind of civilisations ?

The answers to those questions could serve as a basis for more original xenomorph centric movies. 

Regarding what you say about Engineers, i am sorry but if Ridley really wanted to make us discover all that in Prometheus than he is a worse director than i thought.
According to me,to encourage people to dig in one movie, this movie should be compelling enough without this deep understanding of the movie. Example: Matrix
And unfortunatelly, Prometheus has several flaws which would discourage most people to find it compelling enough to dig.
For me the worse flaw is, the characters whom many are stupid beyond comprehension and extremly annoying by their inconsistent actions and behavior.
They are the worse from any movie of the franchise as i find them even worse and less likable than the characters of AVPR which is the worse movie of the franchise.
With such poor characters it is hard to get interested to some other aspects of the movie.Other flaws included the pacing, the cut of some essential scenes,etc...

And frow what is in the movie it is hard to see the Engineers as a real threat for the whole humanity, as:
1. Most of the Engineers of the outpost have been wiped out by one of their own weapon. I mean no kidding, they are not even able to control efficiently their own weapons especially one as dangerous as black goo ?
2. Their warship get stopped by a no military human ship. It would be like a B2 stopped by the mean of a colision course by a civil plane from the Word War I. This is ridiculous and a very disastrous showcase of their technology. At least the portrayal of the scene in a previous draft was much more believable. For me this is one of the worse scene of the movie especially with the stupid death of Vickers a few minutes later. If it is that easy to shut down the Juggernaut than i guess that it would be stopped before being able to bomb Earth as i doubt that humans would hesitate to attack an unknown ship which could easily identified as a warship.

The idea to find out more about the Engineers, the Space Jockey, and the Xeno wasn’t bad. What didn’t work was how it was executed on screen. In a way it was a mistake and in another way it wasn’t. Should they have had better characters and a clearer connection to the Xeno and the Engineer connection then it could have been alright. Janek and David were interesting but the rest were "meh". Hopefully they will have better human characters in the next Alien prequel while keeping some of the mystery that was in Alien. Non-relatable/non-likable humans was my main problem with Prometheus not the lack of Xenos since it was a prequel.

The ideas about why the Engineers would like to destroy us could be an interesting thing. Just think about environmental damage, nuclear weapons, and so on. I don’t think that saying that it is because we killed Jesus is an interesting answer because there are more interesting ones to choose from and to elaborate on. Unfortunately, this as with many other things was too vague in it but I blame it on bad writing and Lindelof. When they put too much emphasis on religion in Alien movies it becomes boring, sure religion is important to many but take that elsewhere or at least not that much as they did in Prometheus.

I don’t care about Shaw, she is stupid and I don’t want another whole movie featuring her dumb character (at least not in a big role). If they will do another movie that is between Prometheus and AC as far as the timeline goes then I hope that they will have Shaw in an even smaller role compared to what she has in Prometheus. Stupid characters ruined it if you ask me but there were good things about it too. To say that Prometheus is a thinking movie as far as inspire thoughts about what happens when we die and similar, that is an exaggeration. Yes it makes me think but that is because of a lack of answers but I understand it better now when I have watched it an X amount of times but the way that they chose to answer it was lame.

As far as the issues about what happens when we die and where we come from, well I don’t think that these issues are very interesting and necessary when it comes to the Alien/Prometheus franchise. Leave these questions to other movies.

Hopefully they will keep the Alien connection in the next Alien/Prometheus movie.

Regardless of how anyone else feels or how good/bad I end up thinking AC is, I will always be a fan of Ridley Scott’s movies – and not just those from the Alien universe he created.  In reading these posts it is pretty clear how polarized everyone is about both Prometheus and now AC. Prometheus is a beautiful movie and it’s the details (on the artwork, activating the juggernaut’s controls with a flute, etc.) make it such a beautiful experience - but it has bad editing and poorly written characters and worse character development.  I agree with Lone as well as many other posts here (great discussions!!) and it’s clear how invested all the fans are by how much people are still talking about and angered by its unanswered questions.  Personally, I’d much rather see a Ridley Scott made for TV mock-documentary solely about the engineers than ever have to see another drunk Holloway pouting about how he didn’t get everything he wanted in one afternoon of exploring an alien world, light years away from Earth, that’s full of evidence completely confirming and expanding his theories about the origins of humanity, or see a crew member figuring that being in extreme danger is the best time to fire up the bong space suit (sorry, Fifield) - but maybe that’s just me.  The black goo (I hope it gets a better name someday) is really interesting, but to me it calls back to the X -Files“black oil” plotline (http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/Purity).  None the less, Prometheus still expands the story into a whole new universe of possibilities giving us much more than Alien Resurrection, or AVP 1-2 ever hoped to, and I hope Ridley or any other director who decides to take one of these movies on continues to explore that universe as well.  Personally (not sure about anyone else) I would honestly love to see Ridley create a movie that was just about the engineers – in their language with subtitles and showing their culture, technology, their ‘ways’, and what happened to them, without any oblivious earthlings who are just in the movie to be wiped out.  I think that movie could be a scify masterpiece.

@Timeteh 

We live in a short cut quick fix world where everyone wants to be spoon fed and battered over the head by the messages they receive. The fact that most of these types of forums are exchanges with people sat on smart phones which are hardly the ideal way to sit and ponder a weighty subject which requires people to both listen and transmit tells me a great deal about why a movie like Prometheus is not taken by some.

People flock to the cinema to see someone with a red outfit fly around the canyons of New York but they can not take a wilful stupid human being seriously in sci fi. How does that work. 

Characters 

I am well aware the dumb characters without helmets thing has been done to death by people that go on and on and on about it on Facebook and any other media forum.

But I would say three things :-

1) Within Ridleys world all the films have dumb characters including Dallas and Ripley walking into the medical lab with a face hugger on the lose. 

2) I see behaviour and attitudes like the promiscuous Milburn, that he is gay is irrelevant, and Cannabis smoking tough talk but weak character Fifield all the time. What is great about science fiction is you can let them get what they want, a high or sex, but it isn't quite what they were looking for. Fifield once infected by the Pathogen is an extreme form of those idiots who are ruled by drugs run riot in stolen cars on a saturday night which can end up with deaths. Milburn wants sex and boy he gets it in the mouth he is so incautious, anyone heard of humans who are incautious getting STD.

No for me Ridleys been around the block and knows how dumb and stupid people are and can be bought easily if the money is right and he channels that grunge in movies. I am repeating myself but there is a scene in Covenant were all the survivors follow a character who they have no idea about into a city with millions of dead. What kind of risk management is that I mean Kane he was some dumb guy looking into that Egg but no he is moulded into Science fiction history as an icon. 

3) Weyland bribed them on to the ship with fat pay checks and when they woke up they had no idea what the job was. They behaved exactly how I expected for a sham mission. If your smart and in control you probably have the same view as David which is made clearer in Covenant. Humans are so stupid and greedy and unkind they do not deserve to live. What made Prometheus brave is we didn't warm to any of the characters except curiously David though Elizabeth mediated the God search for us which worked for me. 

Your point about the Xenomorph and exploring its deeper more sophisticated characteristics. I am with Ridley and David on this. The creature that David creates are in his own image (no moral compass or spiritual circumspection). The difference is the creature was created out of a desire to create and reproduce without its own unique self starting capability (like David) it is a replica created from human DNA and the pathogen. It has no purpose other than to survive (Ash said all this in 17 years time). Put simply to me you place all the emphasis on why you create reproduction without a moral compass or sense of individual sentience. You do not try and enable it by suggesting it is a unique part of creation that was planned it is manufactured - like its creator. When I saw Covenant the first time I was appalled by David's treatment of Elizabeth the second time I pitied him. Because he lacks a soul which includes any sense of morality (psychopath) he could love her and use her and then be endlessly regretful. He hasn't got that noble and wonderful characteristic that mankind can attain of subsuming himself to a greater love through sacrifice (Christ being the ultimate example whether real or not). That of course may come to him if he turns out to be the jockey and then he will sit with the pantheon of gods alongside Warrant Officer Ripley really actually deceased thank you very much.

But no I do not want a retcon awareness development of XXX121. Its origins lie in a pathogen that was created by the hubris of the Engineers and could be interpreted as punishment by their creators. Its a nasty little critter created out of an accident caused by unauthorised sub creation no more no less.    

Thoughts_Dreams

Hey you do not like Shaw you surprise me (ha ha) just kidding. Hope your well.

Spoilers 

I have news for you she isn't in the movie but she is, the entire story is driven by what she does and the impact she has, there is no movie between P and C. ADF has written Alien Origins which is set in the time between P & A and of course we have that beautiful atmospheric short "The Crossing" Awaken is a sequel.

You should also be warned there is another faith person on board Covenant. Their faith is a major problem for the mission and in particular for himself. What Ridley ends up with is the person with the deepest faith suffers the most at the hands of David in both films - interesting. In a sense they refract Paradise Lost, from them come the serpents and yet their only sin is curiosity and belief.        

@Timiteh

I can see some valid points... the Engineers have mastered Advanced Genetics that they can combine their Suits to their bodies... and become Bio-Mechanical.   We dont know how far Mankind will evolve in hundreds of years... I would assume unless we dont kill ourselves off, then in thousands of years i would imagine we would be really Advanced..

If we look however at Sci-Fi and how in the 22nd Century we have Navigated the Stars, then indeed who knows in the Alien Universe left to Mankinds own Evolution in the year 3000 we could be really advanced and so indeed for a Race that is a Billion years old... they really are not a Billion years ahead of us.

They can however traverse Galaxies, why else would they have them on their Star Maps.... but indeed apart from maybe Genetically being Superior, being more Intelligent and having more Advanced Technology... compared to David they only really have one advantage... thats Size and Strength.

I think yes i miss understood your other point.. i know understand it ;)

Indeed its a bit odd that the Engineer had no intruder alarm to warn him that someone was on the ship... a lot depends on if the Ship had ways it could detect Engineers compared to non-Engineers.

So thats a Good point, maybe his Cryo-Pod Malfunctioned and was only now able to be Manually Activated, which would explain why he never continued with his Mission... his Alarm Clock never went off lol

I think one way to explain their lack of Defense.. is Arrogance.. i will assume they are so Advanced, they are creators and they view that their creations without the Help of their own kind will amount to nothing more than Cave Men... so if they left us along 2000 years ago... they are arrogant and naive enough to think we could never ever become a Technologically advanced Race without their Help.

The thing is Spaights Draft touched upon them being more Advanced with Advanced Weaponry rather than using their Fists ;)

REGARDING  the XENOMORPH...

Indeed Rildey had a vision and we need to remember it all started with Star Beast, where the Eggs/Spores was left over Starting Point of a Ancient Alien Race who was actually Civilized to a degree... and not just mindless killing things... The Xenomorph simply was never around its own kind... it would be like if you took one of the Largest Men on Earth... a 7ft 350LB man... and went back to when they was a baby and kept them in a Cage with no way to view anyone and they was only Fed... when they grow to be 18-21 years old and escape... this Man will not be Civilized at all.

Ridley also intended the Alien to kill Ripley and then Mimic her Voice.. so indeed he did plan for them to evolve past being killing Machines... it will be interesting to see if he decides to explore a more intelligent species.

"There is potential to change and explore some of the elements in future.. it depends where Ridley is taking us... for a lot of us though i feel the Novels are where we have to get answers."

@BigDave

I do hope this is the case as I feel that he has left hanging too many unanswered questions from both films and cut off far too much from Prometheus for us to get an even slightly 'satisfactory' ending.

For me though there was SOME food for thought, a lot of Covenant seemed to be the same incessant need and tunnel vision for xenomorphs when honestly, just them broaching the subject of their creation would've been enough.

I guess FOX really is running the show and it's gonna be another TWD AMC Frank Darabont situation...They pushed him around, cut funds and eventually kicked him off his creation then proceeded with a "whatever brings in the masses" plan of action. It worked if you think of how well the shows doing but it could've been so much more then the tangle of lackluster imagination it is. It's entertaining enough to waste your time on but it doesn't leave an imprint on you or you wondering how in the world someone could be so colourfully inventive.

"Their warship get stopped by a no military human ship. It would be like a B2 stopped by the mean of a colision course by a civil plane from the Word War I"

I can see the point, but the Prometheus in effect lined up and then went to Hyper Drive turning the Ship into a Bullet..  The Force knocking the Juggernaught off Balance..

I you was to throw a Mobilty Scooter on the Money shot at a B2 Bomber at say MK2 Speeds i Guarantee the B2 Bomber would be done for.. depends where it hits...  Bombs Blow up Passenger Planes that would hardly do no Damage to some Military Ground Vehicles not to the level of destruction to a Plane.  This is because flying at Speed required Hull Integrity and Aerodynamics and even the slightest Compromise would cause a Craft to suffer catastrophic failure.  

The Juggernaught did not take a Dent, the Force however put it off Balance, you could however argue why it could not take back off... as it looked like it never suffered much Damage.

As for the Characters... I know Prometheus had flawed ones, thats for sure...  but indeed Alien Covenant there is the same kind of stupidity at times... plus vastly more Plot Holes.

@Thoughts_Dreams

Continuing about Characters... Michelle made some great points... as far as Shaw goes then i understand she was a poor Character to some...  But Noomi Rappace is a Good Actor.. i found some flaws with Daniels too, she did not seem to be suffering as deeply at loss and horror, than Dr Shaw did... at times you would think is Daniels a Robot.. lol joke.. but yes she never seemed to be to bothered regarding whats happened...  Like you could send her to Hell in the Middle East... then bring her home and no worry for PTS she be right was rain in no time.

So i think while Shaw's Character was Broken... a better Script and Rappace can Act very well... Prometheus had a few Good Actors who was not used to well... but better Script can fix this... they could evolve her Character for a Sequel... because if Her Faith is Tested and Broken and She knows her Faith is False.. what could that do to her Character?  That could have been interesting.

Alien Covenant... Chris Oram is like a Shaw, meets Milburn, meets Fifield and throw in a bit of Vickers.

As far as the Themes, we we go when we die... these Questions are asked... not in a way to then reveal that we have some Magical God.... but in a way that we are asking these things, of Faith but then Ultimately the Truth is far more Horrific.. there is no Soul, No God, only Evil Beings more Advanced than us who are doing some very Horrific Things.

The movie is not trying to show us Gods like Zues and the Biblical Ones, but to show us our Faiths and Cultures Interpretations of these beings are nothing more than Alien Advanced Race who have very little care for us.

And that we have Faith, and believe we have a Soul and when we die we pass onto another pane of existence, while we created a Advanced Robot... who can never gain this... to then  find the Truth is that we have no Soul to.. and We Die.. and then we are nothing and all we leave behind is our Legacy, through our Deeds, any Arts that we leave behind, any Historical Role we leave behind or our Children.

David is thus more Advanced in everyway apart from he cant Create Life... well not like we can.. but he does Create his own Life and Leave his own Legacy... and so he is every much a GOD than Mankind ever will be or those Engineers.

These are how Prometheus and Alien Covenant are tackling those Philosophical themes.

@Jen0908

Seems to be the case, but i think while we get the answers in the form of Novels... i think once Ridley Scott has connected the dots to Alien.

If they feel Fans wanted to actually see those events from Prometheus to Alien Covenant on Film... then maybe they will do so.

Its a Question of Time though.... If the next movie connects directly to Alien as far as the year 2104 => 2122 and then he ret-cons Aliens by doing a Alien Sequel and both these movies Bomb a  bit or disapoint...

Then indeed maybe they will go back and cover events of Prometheus more... the Problem is Age.... they would need to show any movie with David and Shaw within the next 5 years.. because well explaining a 15 year older looking Rappace and Fassbender is going to be a Stretch..

But then Ridley Scott seems to hint they could bring a 70+ (by the time they do it) Miss Weaver from out of the Wood Work and Digitally De-Age her.. i guess anything is possible.

..

@Timiteh

On the question of the two warships. 

The juggernaut is a bomber the Prometheus is not a warship. It is a science vessel and the only way to stop the craft from bringing death on 6 billion souls Janek steps up and shows the best of humanity selfless sacrifice and reinforcing once again the theme of sacrifice that drives so much of the narrative and makes it a deeply fascinating and rich experience. Once again you have completely missed the way the movie works. Nothing wrong with that it obviously doesn't cognate the way you do.  

As to the business of an alarm activation your thinking right outside of the movie and trying to take it where its not going. The only message you need to know is the Engineers in their hubris and arrogance pursued sub creation and wrecked total retribution on them. Check out the effect of Agent Orange and its scandalous use in the Vietnam war. Arrogance and unintended consequences. 

You clearly look at these things entirely different to me approaching the whole subject from a different angle, no problem with that, but you might just want to consider Prometheus isn't your kind of a movie rather than micro critique it only showing you do not get it, not because you aren't bright articulate and intelligent, but that kind of open ended approach where elliptical symbolism both visually and in terms of narrative is used doesn't suit your need for direct systemic joining up of the dots.

Thats me out of this thread.

In Alien Covenant, David seems interested in the fact that there are hibernating colonists and fetuses in freezing, so he takes Walter's place to continue these abominable experiments on the colonists and created xenomorphs.

-------------

Fr:

Dans Alien covenant,  David semble intéresser qu'il y est des colons en hibernation et des fœtus en congélation, c'est pourquoi il prend la place de Walter pour continuer ces abominables expériences sur les colon et créé des xenomorphs .

@LegendeV

Etes vous francophone ? Car je remarque que vous ajoutez la version française de vos propos à plusieurs de vos messages.

@Michelle Johnson

Yes, i also think with have too different opinions on these movies.
Moreover it seems that we don't understand significant part of each other post.
Thus i think that we will have to agree to disagree.
Let me just add a few things, i do love complex movies and especially complex books with complex scheme and several layers which require advanced analysis to fully understand. However, i think that there is a minimum for a movie to be compelling enough to encourage myself for the kind of digging required by Prometheus. And the obvious flaws of Prometheus, and the fact that it look more like some kind of metaphysic painting than a scifi movie, prevent me to find it compelling enough to go in deep analysis mode like i did for a movie like Matrix. It remember me of Life force, another movie with tredemous potential but with quite bad editing,pacing problems which it was less compeling than it could have been.
I expected that Covenant would have made Prometheus more compelling by solving some of those flaws and bringing some rational answers to several subjects unanswered in Prometheus, but it obviously doesn't seem to be the case.

"I can see the point, but the Prometheus in effect lined up and then went to Hyper Drive turning the Ship into a Bullet.. The Force knocking the Juggernaught off Balance..

I you was to throw a Mobilty Scooter on the Money shot at a B2 Bomber at say MK2 Speeds i Guarantee the B2 Bomber would be done for.. depends where it hits... Bombs Blow up Passenger Planes that would hardly do no Damage to some Military Ground Vehicles not to the level of destruction to a Plane. This is because flying at Speed required Hull Integrity and Aerodynamics and even the slightest Compromise would cause a Craft to suffer catastrophic failure.

The Juggernaught did not take a Dent, the Force however put it off Balance, you could however argue why it could not take back off... as it looked like it never suffered much Damage."

What i find disappointing is the fact that a ship supposedly as advanced as the Juggernaut, is litteraly unable to detect a potential threat and to react quickly to it.
In a previous draft, the Juggernaut was taking off with such a speed, that the Human ship would have never been able to hit if the Engineer was not killed and if Janek didn't act before the computer of the ship take over.
This version was more logical and believable.
I choose the example of the B2 and a very old plane of the World War I because, the B2 should be able to detect and to react to such a plane way before it can be a threat. Especially if the B2 is as advanced as it is rumoured to be. And i am not talking of its sleath capabilities...

Moreover, i find it disturbing that a ship which is able of interstellar travel and even of intergalactic journeys,according to you, is unable to react to such basic situations.
How would it react to meteorites, stellar events such as stellar flares ?
This is another point which deeply annoy me regarding spaceship from most movies.
A true interstellar ship should have either a massive hull and/or several layers of shields which would protect it from such minor incidents.

"As for the Characters... I know Prometheus had flawed ones, thats for sure... but indeed Alien Covenant there is the same kind of stupidity at times... plus vastly more Plot Holes."

Yep, the characters of Covenant seems also dumb in many ways, not as much as those of Prometheus, but quite dumb compared to those of the other movies of the franchise.
It is sad because i find that the smarter the characters of an horror movie are, the scarier the movie is as they get wiped out despites doing the best anyone could have done to escape the situation.

I totally understand where Timiteh you are coming from but also where Michelle is too ULTIMATELY its about driving the Plot, and Plot Devices.

Indeed why would such a Advanced Alien Race, not have Shields on their ships to protect the Juggernaught, why did the Juggernaught not have any other Weapons if its a Military ship, and then use them on the Prometheus...  The simple answer is because if the Ship had any of these, then the Prometheus would be destroyed and the Engineer would have gone to Earth... which would raise Questions as far as Alien Continuity.

And would have not set up the Money-Shot Event that leads to the Deacon. Which was Prometheus way to show us "look this place and Black Goo is connected to Alien"

Alien Covenant has the same Plot Devices, to drive the Plot, it has many silly things too, but they was necessary to drive the Plot.

If we take the Argument of why did the Engineer Ship not have better Defenses and say other Weapons Systems...

We can apply this to Alien Covenant even more so... This is supposed to be their Homeworld... The Juggernaught can dock with the Scorpion Ship, the Hanger looked the same as Prometheus and was the right size for the Juggernaught and not the Larger Docking Ship.

So these beings or at least some must be aware of the Juggernauts, and their purpose.. where was any Form of Protection and Defense to Prevent the Juggernaught from doing what it did.  Are these beings just as Naive if not more than those on LV-223.... or is this bad writing which Lindeloff can not be blamed for.

I always enjoy trying to give explanations for any potential Plot Flaws, and for the reason regarding the Engineers i simply think they are a Advanced Race who created many forms of Life who are so Arrogant to their own Advancements, and they played a massive role in Evolving Humanoid Life, that they simply was Naive and Arrogant and thought that without their Interactions their Creations would be no more than Cave Men.

They simply did not think their Humanoid Creations would ever evolve to become a Space Faring Race and Threat... not without the Engineers Help, and the Engineers always insured that Mankind and other Humanoids are kept only so far advanced as far as Technology... they never shared all their Knowledge with them.

And we can see this same Hubris also applies to Mankind with the creation of Androids... they are Naive when they consider these Robots and then allow for them to be as close to Human as they can... and it never crosses their minds how Dangerous AI that is allowed to much Freedom can be.

A Plot Hole however.. is if indeed it still applies that these Engineers could have internal conflicts with their own kind and Rebelion, then why have they not got more Defensive Weapons to deal with the threat from Races as Advanced as themselves?

And also if they can travel to other Galaxies how unlikely is it that only these Engineers possess Advanced Technology and these Would be Gods are the only Race to do so...

Mankind without their help after they abandoned us, evolved, created Nuclear Power and Weapons, Space Travel etc... if there is many other Humanoid or even Alien Races within the Universe of the Franchise... what are the chances that only Earth Humans and Engineers (Elders) are the only ones to possess such Technologies.

@Timiteh

Indeed my reply was being done as you posted your reply and i think i answered what you was on about...  Certainly you would expect a Advanced Race to have those capabilities.

In regards to Bombers on Earth, a lot of them have only a certain task, not many have defence cababilites to deal with threats..  And so missions are carried out on locations that pose no defencive threats from great heights.. if a threat is there then Fighter Bombers or other forms of Hardware are used to clear any defences that pose a threat to the Bombers before they are sent in.

During Wars, like WW2 Bombers were send in to battle with Squadrons of Fighters to take out any aerial threat poses to the Bombers.

But with the Engineers you would think they would have contingency plans to allow for defenses to deal with such threats, rather than need there own Fighters... it would be Logical the Ships have some kind of Direct Energy or Projectile Weapons that can deal with Ship to Ship Conflicts.

So again the only explanation i can give is these Engineers see themselves as the only Advanced Race they create many Races but they never teach or allow these Races to use their Technology... and so with Earth they simply felt mankind could not have ever evolved to a level that we had.

So they did not see the need for extra defencive measures... which then brings me to my Plot Hole, that how Naive are they and what are the chances they assume they are the only Advanced Race in the Universe... and if there was Wars Between their Kind in the past surely there would be other kinds of defensive Weapons.

But alas i feel its their Naivety and Arrogance that Ultimately cost them as far as the LV-223 Outbreak and then Also David bringing Hell with him....  They underestimate Creation, and think only they are Supreme.... this has Cost them Dearly.

So again though, its Ultimately about driving a Plot... For Example there are many such things in AC.... Logically they would have saw a threat and then take out David and then planned their escape route... at a certain point in the movie... but it needed Oram to not make the right call... or else there would have only been the threat of those Neomorphs... well One to deal with on the way back to the ship...  Plus the potential then for other Spore infections on the way of the trod in more of them.

Oui , yes

I discovered this site by looking for theories on the Alien saga.

I saw alien covenant (disappointed despite good FX for the first 10 minutes).

And have to go through google translation to read all your reflexion theory texts on the alien saga

IMO from reading what ridley has said I believe he may very well have lost interest in this project. personally I cant blame the man. he started out with the intention of doing something different. he stated wev had the xeno and it was time to answer the age old questions that none of the other directors addressed. who was the big chap in the chair and what was the connection to the eggs. he attempted to start this saga with Prometheus and got slammed for it. I feel AC has been a movie forced on someone who never intended, by his own admission, to go down this road. I feel we r not going to get the full scope and vision ridley had intended for this saga and in disappointed. I haven't seen AC yet but already im seeing the same kind of reviews as Prometheus got such as too many holes. I can only speak for myself but ridley has his reputation and plenty of money in the bank and I wouldn't be surprised if we only get 1 more installement. tbh why should he give us more as this is not the story he wanted to tell. and why fox would force him, if they have, to do a more 'alien' movie is beyond me. I don't see much risk as ridley scott puts bums in seats and the alien franchise puts bums in seats. theyd have made money regardless imo. im looking forward to seeing AC and im sure ill enjoy another visually sound masterpiece from the man.

@ali81

You are correct. I just got back from AC and it feels like Ridley is not doing what he wanted to do. The first half of the film is a solid horror flick, but the mythology is ruined. I'm pretty effing pissed that I waited 5 years for them to ignore all the interesting ideas presented in Prometheus. AC is the mistake, not Prometheus. Gone is the mystery, gone is the potential for interesting mythology.

@LegendeV

Je suis moi même francophone, ce qui explique en partie mes problèmes d'incompréhension avec Michelle Johnson.

Not only is Prometheus a mistake, Alien: Covenant is now too.

I watched AC last night. My girlfriend laughed at me over the last year as I was researching and absorbing every little tid bit of information regarding this film.  She came to the movie more to appease me than out of any actual interest.  Her one comment as a regular movie goer stands out more than anything. "Well it wasn't bad, very predictable, not scary at all, and why would they just walk out of the door if they surveyed another planet for over ten years?" 

My take.....obviously people on this site are far more invested in this franchise than the actual standard popcorn flick kind of person.  I don't think either Prometheus or Covenant were mistakes.  Prometheus' execution had issues with script, beats and editing.  Too many hands in the pot?  I also don't think Covenant was bad.  I'm not too sure if I like it but think it will grow on me in time, much like Prometheus did.  I did notice 3/4 of the way while watching the movie, I looked at my watch noting the time.  I don't usually do that it, especially for a movie I've waited so long for.  Have we seen it all before?  In a previous post a while back I stated so.  John Carpenter's "The Thing", Aliens through Alien Resurrection, AVP series etc.  desensitized our perspective of things exploding from the human body. That and if you don't have people walk away individually they can't die horrific deaths.  Survival is usually better achieved in groups.  

My take......

Did David create the Aliens?  No, he reproduced the science behind the Xeno.  The Engineers had eons to perfect the use of the black goo.  He simply copied their science.  The Mural in Prometheus answers that question.  Also, based on comments from my son and girlfriend last night while discussing the differences between the original chestburster and the fully developed baby Xeno. David's critters look different because they are his genetically modified designs, not the Engineer's. Or that's my hopeful take.

Like Chris stated in a previous post, and after initially hearing about Paradise lost, I too was waiting for an Engineer world with wonders and Gigeresque technology.  Obviously we didn't get that with AC. 

What I am most interested in as we move forward, and I don't know if we will get it, is a more solid foundation on the Engineer's, the seeding of the Galaxy and information on the  conflict.  Is there a conflict between the Engineer's (Dark Angels), another species unseen or elders, (perhaps those that actually created humanity)?  Scott said this was heading or leading to a war of the worlds.  Be kinda cool to see the Engineer race wanting revenge for David's actions.  The creators pissed at the created's creation.  An interesting twist. 

Still have an issue with Lope's M-4.  Maybe because I carried one for years for the US Army. Years into the future, interstellar travel and you have that weapon system.  boooooo

If David is actually the creator of the Xeno, that throws the entire original Alien Narrative out the door.  Scott's original idea was that the Xeno was a biological weapon and the ship used was the vessel for delivery originally seen in the first movie.  How the hell are they gonna tie this all up with the first movie is beyond me, especially if Scott only does one more film,and David is the actual creator. 

If you liked Daniel's at all, like Shaw she needs to die before the Covenent even gets to its Origae-6 destination.  She knows it's David and can't interfere.

Also disappointed that there was not any substance to the Engineer's ways.  David stated he learned their ways.  What....destroy seeded life and create icky monsters?

I think Scott is awesome, but like any Director, they make brilliant, good, and average movies.  AC is not bad, but not something I need to see over and over again in the near or immediate future.  A good popcorn flick yes.  What I was hoping for, not so much.

After reading so many interesting posts making reference to Jon Spaihts draft script for Prometheus, Alien:Engineers, I decided to find one and read it for myself, all 118 pages. It turned out to be well worth the investment in time. The Spaihts script was more ambitious, greater in breath, focused with more clarity on the higher concepts of the story, significantly more action, violence, and punishment. More details of the engineer is revealed, including weaponry.The higher themes of creation, sacrifice, and the preservation of life are also still intact. The script ties into ALIEN directly. There are many similarities with Prometheus combined with the some of the violence of Alien Covenant. The ending and resolution are better conceived than Prometheus. There is also a strong story line link to the Weyland Company Technology Agenda which is consistent with ALIEN, and also ALIENS. David's motivations are more a result of a rapid acquisition of knowledge, corporate directives, and evolving free will. There is a sinister agenda beneath the search for answers, and the plot development is fluid and works well. Although not without flaws (potential refinement), there is an abundance of material which would appear challenging to fit into a two hour movie. In addition, by taking place on LV 426, it ends in a manner that resolves questions from ALIEN, but leaves open the higher concept questions. When compared to the actual script used for Prometheus, it is fair to conclude that the Spaihts script would have generated higher universal satisfaction.

One can speculate that the decision to bring Damon Lindelof was not driven by the quality of the Spaihts script, but a compromise based on business interests between Fox Studios and Ridley Scott. Sequels generate more profit, but often diminish the quality of the finished product if the source material has not been fully fleshed out. During Alien Covenant development, it was reported that a 10 page ALIEN story guideline Bible was made, after the fact. According to Film Financial Summaries, Prometheus was made on a budget of $125 million, had a global box office of $403 million, had total domestic video sales (DVD/Blue Ray) of $43 million. Opening US box office $51 million. Although the script was watered down, Fox and Ridley did achieve a successful reintroduction of the franchise and the most successful film of the franchise. If Ridley had any second thoughts after fan reaction, it most likely related to the compromise made altering major elements of original Spaihts draft scripts, which could have been described as having new creative concepts combined with traditional xenomorph elements. Looking objectively at Prometheus and Alien Covenant today, both movies are at opposite sides of the spectrum. This may end up polarizing fans of the franchise even more.

If one examines the management of the ALIEN franchise with the TERMINATOR franchise, there are similarities. Science Fiction Genre, very successful first movie and sequel (2nd) considered critical and commercial successes, and then great difficulty defining creative story lines, resulting in the gradual devaluation of the franchises. For comparison purposes only, the last Terminator movie (reboot), GENISYS, Financial Summary , had a production budget of $155 million, worldwide box office $440 million, domestic video sales $25 million. Very similar performance to Prometheus, the movie also generated controversy with its fan base resulting in a franchise that is currently in limbo. It is interesting that Alien Covenant introduces the Good Robot/Bad Robot conflict, a device used in the majority of the TERMINATOR movies. In summary, defining an original (and fresh) overall story line with engaging source material over the span of the movies (including sequels) is imperative for franchise viability. Otherwise it is a moving target, simply put, improvisation. 

If you start watching beginning with Prometheus, AC, chronologically, the ALIEN movie has begun to lose it's relevance in the story line.

Ridley should take the advise from his character in the movie, The Martian, Mark Watney when developing the story for the next movie, " In the face of overwhelming odds, I'm left with only one option, I'm gonna have to science the shit out of this." (Please replace the word science with Engineer)

PS: I am intentionally leaving out comments related to Alien Covenant to avoid a significant drift from the main topic. When a topic, purely AC appears, I'll have an opinion. 

Quite Frankly I think most people are missing the point. As with so many franchises, people tend to build a near religious attachment to it and therefore claim it personally. The point of ALIEN was always the Xenomorph's and in relation the Derelict Ship on LV-426. The story moved forward with Ripley and there we got to know her through the events that unfolded. However, she was just the engine, the world was introduced through her, but the real story was the ALIENs. So now, unlike previous movies and the typical Star Wars Phantom Menace mistake, the writers and filmmaker made a monumental mistake in trying to demystify the origins of the Xenomorphs. In my humble opinion, the Xenomoph's ought to have been kept as a complete mystery and left to be as vague as what the Force was in Star Wars before they introduced the idiotic medichlorians or whatever nonsense.

The new generation of moviegoers are less demanding, they seek visual pleasure and weak subplots and overall story (Transformers franchise). The few who do seek a meaty story tend to forget every now and again what they are watching and build colossal backstories on something that inherently isn't meant to have any. Prometheus for me was a massive mistake in how it was handled. I don't blame Scott for this, only in that he didn't see the mistake when it was handed to him. And in this case I'm talking about the writers. The Engineers were one of the biggest mysteries in the ALIEN franchise, the Derelict ship with it's oversized pilot was always a deliciously mysterious piece of history. But if you tackle something so big in the very DNA of the ALIEN franchise, you ought to understand the fickle nature of it as well. No one can or ever should assume something so weak as they did with the engineers in Prometheus. They were not ALIEN, they were a more advanced beings of humanoids. Their reaction, culture even was too similar to ours, too many stupid questions remained and most of all the GOD theme was utterly inappropriate. In the world of ALIEN, the Xenomorph is the byproduct of something primal, soulless and utterly brutal. Just like a freak accident or disaster, when something happens like that, it's not an act of God, it's just the elements that created something horrible. Ever seen what lurks in the depths of our oceans? There you'll find true nightmares and yet... Nature created it... so maybe Xenomorphs were also a byproduct by the elements in the Universe as worlds are formed, etc. But alas, this was overly explained and now in Covenant although a much better film than Prometheus, is now taking away the mystery and risking contaminating an already established franchise by tampering with the canon. Furthermore, Prometheus' biggest mistake was Shaw, her character was completely exaggerated and unrealistic. Her behaviour and suffering was inhuman and utterly idiotic at best, no human could jump, climb, crawl or do anything after such a monumental surgery which again was one of the worst ideas in the film. The current state of the Alien franchise today is that we shifted from Surviving the Xenomorphs to Creating the Xenomorphs and in this case, that's apparently thanks to David. A good spin and I like it with the exception that the timeline, the Eggs in ALIEN (1979) were very old, yet they were the perfect design and so, how did they survive the time, the elements. We are reaching Ripley's timeline too quick and if they decide to put DAVID into the pilot's suit on the Derelict Ship to tie in with the rest of the franchise... well... then they really didn't get very creative with that. 

This franchise has iconic behaviour, which causes it to be more confusing than open about the reality of things. The lead bad ass is once more a woman (It seems only women know how to handle Xenomorphs), tank tops are what scares or confuses Xenomorphs? Air locking them out into space seems to be the go to thing for any female hero when dealing with Xenomorphs. *not a bad idea, just overused now... be creative writers!

I think the story in Covenant was very interesting, they made it more about creationism, master and slave etc, David Vs. Walter, it was as the lead actress said, it's not about her character it's about David. So the new Ripley in this Franchise is actually David, unfortunately he's completely damaged, but he will seek redemption in the next films, he'll live the life of a damaged android, who will end him or how his life will end is the mystery for now, but don't worry, they'll explain everything and take away all mystery by the time we get to the end and it's tied in with ALIEN (1979). 

The Alien Franchise lives and breaths MYSTERY, what we're seeing now, is demystification of the worst kind... Explain everything and you take away the magic, the wonder, the mystery... 

But hey, it's just my opinion, it's as right as yours and as wrong as yours... either way if you read all this to the end...

Thanks ;) 

See you around Space cowboys and girls!

Big fan even will watch the AVP franchise time and again, time loop. Time. Loop. Mr. Scott if you are reading this just go that route I mean David is a diabolical face dancer navigating the cosmos... You are a fan of Frank Herbert this was Erasmus in a way, going about in an invisible ship abducting/experimenting on whomever. 

David has an opportunity to somehow create new colonies whose to say he didn't fabricate an entire timeline? A little heavy and generally dull time traveling organic robots eerily similar to Terminator I know but think of the advantages of turning Davids story into a war between his tyrannical perspective on life and existence and the very real struggle of surviving on an alien world full of xenomorphic creatures once you accidentally stumble outside his quarantine zones. 

Could do a whole blade runner reference involving people being androids and are assuming mundane human lives as sort of a network for David to spy on his experiments. 

Just a ton of fun if you do it correctly, between creating colonies to operate in different eras in history by leaving people to start over with nothing, even leave groups of children to fend for themselves like a Children of the Flies meets Prometheus scenario. Hundreds of children stranded by a demented droid on a habitable but hostile planet with no means but their memories to stay alive. 

Good times Mr. Scott. Good times.

I totally agree …I loved Prometheus.  The story line has so many possibilities.   Now pls don’t laugh…but when I saw Prometheus I had no idea it was part of the alien franchise.  I know your saying “what” well even my husband couldn’t believe I didn’t know…soooo when I saw Prometheus I just saw a great story … I think I had a fresh view of the movie and the ending was fabulous…and that’s when I knew…lol…huge mistake Ridley not to continue….HUGE….also the music was beautiful 

"The script ties into ALIEN directly"

I would say NOT quite it seemed like Spaight had NEVER even watched ALIEN much, as their are Conflicts and Errors.  Seemed he was more Familiar with ALIENS.

If you Read his Drafts and take them as GOSPEL in every Detail they dont Conflict ALIENS much, but if you then watch ALIEN then it does-not Connect at all... well its Flawed.  But the IDEAS were Good, i think it was TOO ALIENY and Prometheus was TOO LESS say ALIENY.

We NEEDED to have a Balance with Prometheus

The Clues to the Xeno/LV-426 were soooo VAGUE and Ambiguous that MOST would NEVER make any Connection, only the SHIP and Chest Burst Scene at the END would be Familiar.

The Hammerpede and Trilobite you could make some Connection to a Face Hugger, you had the MURAL for a Moment that you could make some Connection with but there was NO Explanation.

I think the Biggest Problem comes from NOT having a Replacement for the Xenomorph.  The only DEATHS/KILLS that you could Loosely relate to the Xenomorph was via the Hammerpede (1) and the Deacon Chest Buster (1)

Fifield had KILLED the Majority of the Crew in a SINGLE ATTACK and he had Basically NO Connection to the Xenomorph......... HOWEVER if we had the Fifield from the Spaights Drafts then we would have seen a Connection.

With Alien Engineers we had 3 Different Xenomorph related Monsters who had made a Number of Attacks/Appearances.   I think that Prometheus had NEEDED just ONE Monster that we could DRAW a Connection more to the Xenomorph... YES we had the Deacon but this would be like say ALIEN Ended after Kanes Son had RAN off the Table.

With Alien Covenant we had the Neomorph which had more Screen Time and we could make some Connection to the Xenomorph with. I dont think that PROMETHEUS had needed a Xenomorph but it NEEDED something as a Replacement.

As far as the OT.. on the Contrary i think that Ridley Scott was PROUD of Prometheus and looking at his Comments after Alien Covenant it seems that he FELT that Prometheus was the RIGHT Direction and ahead of the Curve.

So i think that WHEN he said it was  MISTAKE he was refereeing to that Prometheus should have had more a CLUES to LV-426 and should have had a ALIEN MONSTER.

FOX seemed to think that Prometheus had LACKED this and that maybe the Prequels had to CONNECT to the Xenomorph.

In Reality then RIDLEY SCOTT was RIGHT... but i think you had to make some Connection Loosely in a Sequel and so i think Alien Covenant was a MISTAKE

I think HINDSIGHT is Wonderful.... and in Hindsight what they should have done is.

A Sequel that would go to LV-223 and introduce us to another David Model (Fassbender still cast) and this Sequel you make more ALIENY a bit like Alien Engineers where you have Something thats like the Xenomorph and you have more CLUES to HOW the Xenomorph was Created and GOT on the SHIP on LV-426 (but you did-not have to SHOW THIS) having another Ship where its Cargo are Eggs with a Variant of the Xenomorph would have DONE.

You would have had a more Action Alien Monster Fest to please some Fans, with more Clues to LV-426 and you could then have CLOSED THE DOOR to ALIEN but then you would have the Notion that the Black Goo can lead to Horrors like the Xenomorph and that OTHER ENGINEER Ships had Departed from LV-223, and so the Derelict is NOT the ONLY such Ship to have LEFT.

You can then Explore other ALIEN Movies in the Franchise thats NOT just Tied down to LV-426 and the Derelict and the Vanilla Xenomorph.

And THEN..... you could have GONE to where David and Dr Shaw are going and NOT have to be Shackled to ALIEN or  those Answers and had FREEDOM to Begin a SPIN-OFF Franchise.

I mean...Prometheus scarred me to no end so...I guess I'm ok with this sentiment?

I have listened to a podcast (AVP-galaxy podcast I think) where they discuss various comments by Scott about the franchise and they seemed to be of the opinion that he changes his mind often. First he is interested in the guy in the chair and then he changes his interest to David, and then he goes back to the Engineers again. It's like he can't make up his mind. One thing that they said is that he has got to play along with the studio so maybe that is a thing also.

Proud of Prometheus? As he should be but according to the documentary of Prometheus he mostly happy about cutting the movie down to two hour (according to the Xenomorphing podcast). Going for a run-time should not be important, if the movie is being reduced in quality because of a director that thinks that he must cut it down to get ticket sales then something is wrong. There are deleted scenes on Youtube that I've watched and they would have improved the movie greatly if they would have been left in. Deleting those scenes makes me wonder if Scott and Fox know what they are doing but now we have the Disney situation which is what it is.

Covenant was a mistake because they didn't learn from the criticism from Prometheus. All they thought people wanted was the Xeno and then everything else would be fine, guess what? It didn't

Three bad things about Covenant:

1. Lame human characters except for Oram and Faris
2. The focus on androids wasn't very good
3. Making the Xeno a result of a mad android was crap although I understand it thematically it sucks story-wise.

Both Scott and Fox are to blame
I would like to see (if they will continue the prequels):

1. Better human characters, this is a must and they should not release another one either as a prequel-movie or an alien-movie before they get this right.
2. Less focus on androids
3. Make it clear that David just made his own version of the monster
4. More about the Engineers (society, culture, religion, science, and so on)

As for the franchise in general I would like to see:

1. New worlds
2. New monsters
3. New Life-forms, engineers and what not

Expand the franchise don't go back to things that we have seen over and over. Like
I've said Star Wars and Star Trek can do this so the alien-verse could do that too. They need good stories and relatable human characters to get it right, the team responsible for it got to understand that, until then we're fucked (to paraphrase Alien 3).

I have to AGREE with most of that ;)

YES you never had to have Xenomorphs, you could have had Similar but Different, but then with Prometheus you had the Potential to STEER AWAY from the Xenomorph and LV-223/426.

The Prometheus Plot had Scope... and RS had said he felt the Alien Franchise could/should be where Star Trek and Star Wars are.... NOW i dont think he meant as BIG as those Franchises.

I think he is looking at the World Explorations.. with the Engineers Plot its UNLIKELY all we have is those Engineers on Planet 4 and LV-223 and Humans on Earth!

So YES we could have had MANY WORLDS, and MANY RACES and HOW would they GET ON? etc.

Star Trek is SET in our HUGE GALAXY... and Star Wars is SET in a GALAXY FAR FAR AWAY!

With the Engineers Plot we are NOT just Confined to ONE GALAXY...... so YES you could have Countless Worlds and Races and Conflicts and Horrors.

In this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo30bZc10D0  Scott says that the alien-franchise should be as The War of the Worlds, the problem is that he doesn't explain how. If you don't explain what you mean by a comment like that, then it can get confusing.

You might be right that's what he means but he isn't clear about what his vision is. Contrary to that he made Alien Covenant about a mad android, that isn't to expand the alien-universe, that's to make it smaller. Not to say it's what Scott wanted but that's what happened.

Scott has ideas but he isn't a writer, let him throw out ideas and then people can say yes or no to them but leave the writing to those that know how to do that. Understanding your limits isn't wrong.

The question is: who are the writers that have the ideas and that can write interesting stories? It worked with Alien 1, 2, and 3. Who are the writers that can do that job while at the same time being able to stand up to studio-pressure?

Well that is the Problem... because if you look at ALIEN R, AVP and AVPR and looking at ALIEN V then it shows that the Writing Staff just DONT have anything Good to Provide us, they all seem Revolve around Xenomorphs.

The WAR OF THE WORLDS is a Interesting Comment, who knows what he Meant?  There is the Potential for that in the Franchise, but you RUN the Risk of Conflicting with the ALIEN Franchise.

If we have the Future after AC and so 2105-2122 where you have David and his Creations, VS the Engineers, VS Mankind then THIS would Conflict with ALIEN and more so ALIENS.

Unless this ELEMENT comes to PLAY after the events of ALIENS/ALIEN 3 or if the Prequels would CLOSE that Time-Line to ALIEN in that we END the Conclusion with the Derelict Landing down on LV-426 like 2-5 Years before ALIEN.

Then AFTER we have ALIEN we have more of Davids Horrors, we have more of the Engineers we get a WAR OF THE WORLDS.... But this would Conflict ALIEN!

NOT if RS would remove ALIENS from Canon....

Ridley Scott said you could BRING BACK our Ripley... you could DE-AGE her and so we have to WONDER as to WHAT he meant?

Replace Alien 3 and Alien R?  Or could he mean to do a ALTERNATIVE set of Sequels to ALIEN that would FIT with his War of the Worlds Vision?

But you could ALSO just Explore a FAR FAR away Place in the Galaxy that Humans from Earth have NOT even Visited, so you have Engineers,  other Worlds, Creations!

But WHAT about Human Characters?

Well can we just ASSUME that the Earth is the ONLY place that had Humans in our Galaxy/Universe like for Thousands of Years?

BUT how would we Understand them?  Easy Sub-Tittles for a BIT and then they Speak English for our Convenience!

No BODY has a Issue with STAR WARS we have Humans in a Galaxy Far Far Far Away..... you really think Humans in a Galaxy Far Away would SPEAK ENGLISH?

And so its for our Continence (to a Degree) and so YES you can Explore other Areas of the Galaxy, with other Humans and then DO the War of the Worlds with that.

THEY could show us that Humans had came from FAR AWAY and Hundreds of  Thousand of Years ago and THEN after some WAR OF THE WORLDS the Engineers had taken some HUMAN Survivors to Earth to BEGIN again... and THIS is where our History begins.

BD

The Xeno has been done over and over, that's one of the things that was good about Prometheus which is that it expanded the universe. Unfortunately Alien Covenant made the wrong thing by making it smaller. You mention it being centered around Xenos, that's one of the problems but there are other things where they went wrong.

About contradictions in the franchise, that's why you need people to look at that so it doesn't. Scott can remove AR if he wants but don't mess with 2 and 3. Aliens and Alien 3 are way better than the prequels because they have characters that you can cane about that or the most part are better written.

You mention the time-line, I would rather have the derelict being older. When you make it a recent thing you remove the mystery but it should be better than that. Something that happened two or three years ago or something that has been there for hundreds or thousands of years, I know what I find to be the most interesting.

"But this would Conflict ALIEN!"

Make it a spin-off? Don't ruin Alien with that, he has already done enough damage. Don't remove Aliens from Canon, that movie is a lot better than the prequels. Don't let Scott's ego put more blemishes on the franchise than it already has caused.

Well it seems that FOX had felt you had to make the Franchise about the Xenomorph, as Originally it seemed a Prometheus Sequel would have BRANCHED OFF as a Spin Off that would NOT be Connected to the Xenomorph or LV-426. However i think UNDER the Control of DISNEY then IF we get a Movie/TV Show i think the Xenomorph would become the Centerpiece again.  I would think they would see the Prequels as being a Disappointment and will UNLIKELY see any Continuation.

I will agree that RS does seem to Change his Mind a lot, but also the POWERS THAT BE also seem to Change their minds a lot too.  ULTIMATELY they are the Ones who say what goes.

I think that CHARACTERS are Important and we have NOT seen any really Stand Out, not REALLY like the First 3 Movies and so THIS is something that they NEED to get Right.

The Time-Line has become a Problem now.... prior to Alien Covenant and the U-TURN about the Xenomorph, then RS had it in his MIND that the Derelict/Eggs had been on LV-426 a Few Hundred Years after the Engineers had LOST CONTROL of LV-223 with the Outbreak.

Without any TIME-TRAVEL then we are 17 Years prior to ALIEN with LV-426 likely having NO EGGS or Derelict at Present (Year 2105)  So YES this was another Problem with the Mistake of making the Prequels become a Chronological Prequel to those EGGS eventually getting on LV-426.

I also think that YES you have to keep the Movies as Canon, and NOT go any Remove any.  But the ALIEN V ideas by Blomkamp and Brandywine would REMOVE some Movies as Canon and they BOTH also bring back RIPLEY.

If they want to see RIPLEY again then i think a Continuation of ALIEN R is the way to go.