New Replies (Page 249)

Ms. Vickers again, as the Astronaut's Wife.

Marooned on that planet, another Ridley Scott film, the Martian.

Moon has an Alien feeling to me, almost you can feel a derelict is waiting to be found.

Containment still my favorite so far. reminds me of a sequence from Tim Lebbon's Alien: Out of the Shadows novel

 Decs Nice post! I would agree with a lot of entries here- some I have not seen. I would have to add Species in the mix. For bonus points, Giger was involved.

I thought Night Shift was a bit predictable but there was a twist that gave a sense of uh-oh.

Hi Decs a lot of the above films have been discussed in various topics in various different contexts but from memory nothing like this topic :) 

You're choice selections are excellent. Personally my favorite of your picks is Sunshine! Such an excellent film. Also much love from Pitch Black/Riddick and Event Horizon. 

I would like to add Cube: Zero (hardly surprisingly given my avatar) but it has always felt like an Alien film....without the Alien. 

Another selection would be Splice.

Just watched Night Shift. I loved the very nihilistic ending. Bleak and very fitting.  

This is good news for us with kids. 2 birds with one stone and all that. Kids gets the Disney films, we get Alien content XD

I think back in 1986, no one thought much about future movies or got too wound around the axles about really fine details. It seems the intent with Bishop's statements meant the great LV-426 Kablooie yielded nothing surviving or being salvageable. 

The derelict could not be too far from Hadleys Hope, if we suppose Jorden was rescued and taken to the infirmary, where the chest bursts occured. Being the same eggs as in Alien we should calculate the same incubation time for the chestburster. Even if in Aliens the chest bursting occurred immediately after Jorden arrived at Hadleys Hope, how much time could we take into account?

If the incubation was about 12 hours in Alien, so 12 hours for the rescue mission to arrive at the derelict site and take him back, so 6 hours driving distance between Hadley Hope and the derelict? 6 hours by 20 mph gives maximum 120 miles.

Prior to Bishop's comments about the colony being a cloud of vapour the size of Nebraska, he says that when it blows, it will have a blast radius of 30km, equal to about 40 megatons. Cameron's first draft was

"I'm projecting total systems failure in a little under four hours. The blast radius will be about thirty kilometers. About equal to ten megatons."

I guess he meant that the vaporised colony would balloon out into a very large cloud.

That does put a smaller limit on how far away the Juggernaut could be. But, frankly, I find it extremely hard to believe that a 20-year-old colony would not be aware of that massive ship right on their doorstep. If you're in a craft coming into land at a spaceport you can see well beyond 30km. It's inconceivable that the Juggernaut could be so close and yet remain unseen.

Thanks, dk.

I have to wait for a better internet connection.

Long, hard wait.

This should have been called Night of the Living Alien instead.

I liked! Finally we can see the classic chestbuster.

Gavin made a post for this but here it is as I earlier stated I would put the shorts on this thread.

#3 of 6 Night Shift

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYgoolcKszc

Nice! Like the others, it has a nice twist.

Gavin

Well, I just use official knowledge. Whatever, WY Report said what Derelict located at a distance of 30 km from Hadley's Hope. 1-2 hours drive.

@Leto,

Ash did say 1200 km, but Xenopedia says 12,201 km source the Colonial Marines Technical Manual as its source, and some contend the CMTM is canon, either way, it's only a difference of 201 km.

I find it all rather unfortunate at this point, that this is just a no frills, connect the dots type of plot. It is lazy, lousy, unoriginal and wholly uninteresting. But given the screen time constraints of about 150 minutes and the inevitable final destination on the LV-426, there is not really much scope to do anything grandiose and interesting in the next installment. Seems like so, but who knows.

Now, back to that plot.

The WY knows that Peter Weyland went missing on LV-223 on his Prometheus mission and one can see from the Alien Covenant and the Prometheus ending sequence that Shaw's final message ( that the whole mission has died on LV-223, that there is nothing but death there ) hasn't reached WY HQ, located presumably on earth, because the Oram's Covenant crew were quite oblivious to David and knew very little about Shaw and her fate. The fact that the fate of Peter Weyland is in limbo furnishes a way for WY to send another mission to discover of what has happened to him - ergo, it is possible that there was a manned crew, armed to the teeth(marines! just like "fans" want), on its way to LV-223 which was sent at a point in time not much longer after Covenant was launched on its mission. This is the human part.

Meanwhile, we have Walter on Planet 4 being picked up, perhaps re-animated and re-invigorated by the lovely engineers, who show up to discover their playground destroyed. They want revenge :) Walter will oblige and tell them everything. It transpires that Origae-6 is a barren piece of nasty rock, not particularly accommodating for humanoids and in their infinite wisdom they guess and preempt that David will go to LV-223 to carry out his plan, where he will arm himself and his children in order to clear the earth for themselves.

David knows that engineer technology is superior to human tech(remember his admiration and awe when he showed Weyland the bridge of the engineer ship). He will make sure his children are capable to use and re-use the tech once used by the engineers. And after reaching Origae-6, he will steer the Covenant to LV-223.

The rendezvous. A colossal struggle takes place on the planetoid. And the end result is that, you guessed it, some being strapped in the seat of a juggernaut on LV-426. Who the lonely chap is not that important. Could be David or one of his bastards.

The end.

This type of mind-numbing plot has a side benefit that most of the characters/parties from previous movies are utilized. You get a high paced non-stop action movie with aliens, engineers, humans, synthetics and as a bonus some other species. Most importantly, however, it features MARINES with lots of GUNS, other weapons with many explosives. You surely can't beat this, right?

I just wish that instead of this shit-show they would give Ridley Scott freedom to do whatever he wants and continue without regards and constraints, even that of the alignment with the 1979 movie.

could have explored the Davids Odyssey

It was never been David's Odyssey. It was Shaw's Odyssey.

not been too adventurous.

Disagree. Adventure - the best aspect of Prometheus. And David-Lowrence better than David-Moreau. He should be a bridge between Shaw and Engineers. They both should explore and discover the new worlds and meet ancient races.

"BioDegradable Very interesting. It also seems pretty consistent with some things BD hasn't publicly posted."

Not sure what you mean DK? 

"What should happen is this:"

I would think that Origae-6 would have to be Somewhat Sustainable, i cant see it being Totally Hostile.. but YES people can make Mistakes...  so indeed maybe Origae-6 would not be the Paradise they thought...

But i would still think it would have to be at least like what we saw with LV-223... which is where David could then Engineer Humans to be able to Survive on this World.

Any incoming Human Ship would maybe get close enough to detect that the Planet is NOT as viable.... and realize they made a mistake.... YET the Covenant is there, and they have detected signs of Life...  as they get closer they detect a Colony that should not be there (after they determine Humans Cant/Should Not be able to Survive out in the open).    So they would be intrigued and when they land and Space Suit up, what kind of a Shock would they have when they Discover Humans that can Survive on the Surface and have been Engineered somewhat?

Looking at your idea however.... i assume what you refer to is that David has a Agenda for his Creations, but discovers that Origae-6 is a World they would not be able to INHABIT so he makes a Plan with them, which would require some Sacrifice, to go to EARTH and Destroy all Mankind so that his Humanoid Creations can Inherit the Earth?

So at some point he gets to LV-223 to Mass Create Xenomorph Eggs, and Loads them up on maybe ONE or more Ships and then attempts to go to Earth?  I guess this would make a ONE movie connection to ALIEN... because and i dont mean to come across Disrespectful i just feel to make this work in TWO movies, which would appear to be based on David Conducts experiments on the Covenant, then they change direction to go to LV-223 to Mass Produce Eggs and then load them on the Derelict and ATTEMPT to leave for Earth.... which we clearly know was not a Success.

The Problem is what dialog do we have, would dialect between David and his Humanoids work?  We would need to have Human Characters involved.

while its a Good Point that Time Restraints do limit what you can do with a Sequel, as far as World Building (if David Engineers Humanoids, they could have Rapid Growth Rate like Clones) but i see the point you tried to raise.

But a Problem is still the Time Restraints, we are in the Year 2105 at the time David has tucked everyone into SLEEP..  the Covenant Ship would arrive on Origae-6 in the Year 2112, leaving 10 Years until ALIEN... for him to then head to LV-223 would then take us to the Year 2119/2120 which leaves 2-3 years before ALIEN.

But i guess if most of Davids Engineering Humanoids happens on the Journey to Origae-6 he could then further do more experiments on the way to LV-223, its a Question then of HOW-LONG is he on LV-223 and does he MASS Produce the Eggs on LV-223 and how long would this take.

Then its a case of does most the Movie revolve around experiments and Human Hybrids?

I think any sequel we have to look at Davids Agenda..

Looking alone at AC and the Advent, if it was to Destroy Mankind, then  it would be to LV-223, pick up a Engineer Ship and arrive on Earth and UNLEASH HELL!

If David instead has a Fascination with his Xenomorph, then this could take longer and would require the use of all those Colonist and Embryo's and then i feel taking a Ship to Earth would be risky with Eggs because we have to ask HOW do they deploy them?

If David wishes to create his own Humanoids... then using the Black Goo on Earth would render the World Hostile to his Humanoid Creations.... so Xenomorphs would be better, if they have a Limited Life Span!

If we looked at the Advent and assumed David only wants to Create his Xenomorphs, and a Queen then the route to this would not be that HARD and he could do most of it on the Covenant, and Further Experiments on LV-223 which then he would want to LOAD them onto a Engineer Ship, what we have to ask is where is any Dialect going to come from?  We would need some Human Interaction.

So the only way this works is that David arrives on LV-223 begins Create his Army of Eggs, but then a Human Ship turns up.. Giving us a bit of a Prometheus, meets Alien Covenant with more Action so meets Aliens kind of Flick.

Which to be fair would be the most Easy (Lazy) way to get the Prequels to ALIEN and give Fans a more Alieny Flick.

Which then we could assume Davids message about the Covenant Mission is a Red Herring to Lure Humans to Origae-6, so he can continue with his Experiments Far away... but in reality... David just needed to NOT mention anything about his Wolves..  as by Virtue of the Advent, the Company would surely go to LV-223 and maybe Planet 4

Again however here lies a Prequel that could connect to ALIEN and not include David (much) .... a Mission to Planet 4, Neomorphs and Xenomorphs and then Engineers Rock Up....  they then take the Xenomorphs to LV-223 to Mass Produce them and Voila!  ALIEN here we come...

Leaving a different Kind of Movie to be set around David and Origae-6

Gavin

But remember that LV-426, AKA Acheron is a moon with an equatorial diameter of 12,201 km

It was 1200 km.

"Yet here you are, kicking BigDave into fetal position over and over."

I think everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and i do think a lot of Fans have become Tired of David, the way he was executed in Alien Covenant as far as his Character Development, we also see that most of the things Fans could have looked forwards to had been KILLED off by the Actions of this Psychotic Synthetic....  so he gets the blame for that... when in reality its the Studio who had made those changes and David could have been done better...

I think the main Problem is the Franchise Prequels are Centered around David, more so now that the Engineers are taken out as far as being able to get answers to their Agenda such as Questions Dr Shaw would have wanted answered.   so for MANY fans the Alien Franchise should not be about a ANDROID....

Were as RS appeared to want to Branch off to do something else, and have a Few Movies that are not a ALIEN as per say Franchise.

Ridley Scott had some Grand Ideas on how to expand the Franchise beyond Eggs and Queens.... but by Virtue of going a Direct Prequel route the expectation has to be to be about the Xenomorph and NOT a Rogue Robot!

Sadly it is a Consequence of Prometheus being a movie that DID-NOT offer enough clues to the Xenomorph Origin or Derelict, and it had little in the way of Xenomorph like Attack Scenes..  HAD they made a Prequel that introduced a little more of these ELEMENTS from say Alien Engineers, then they could have CLOSED the Door to ALIEN and then a Prometheus Sequel could have explored the Davids Odyssey and not be Shackled Down by the Xenomorph/Direct Prequel Route.

I think its about finding the Balancing Act now... but the Fanbase is so Fractured to what they want/dont want.. and in Hindsight i think the Prequels should have maybe played it a bit more SAFE and not been too adventurous.

Which would be a shame... because as i am sure RS was thinking, ONCE you give the Xenomorph Origins... its a case of WHAT NEXT? 

The Logical Point would be to explore the Weyland Company as far as WHY it always had this Agenda, and also more so the SPACE JOCKEY Race... and the whole Creation/Creators Plot was BOLD but maybe too Grand for the Alien Franchise...  but thats the thing he was trying to expand to something else and not be about QUEENS and EGGS.

You make a Good Point BioDegradable by asking if we took out David, what is there next to do?   And so trying to conclude the Prequels, but by having David be in effect what happened with Dr Shaw in Alien Covenant  would render most of Prometheus NULL... unless the Engineers return... 

It would be interesting to see how Fans who would not want to see David again/much and to see WHAT route do we go instead?   Introducing NEW Characters is all Good, but they have to be Well Done and some of them have to Survive the Next Movie... we cant keep introducing Characters for ONLY a single Movie!

I feel its a shame that a lot of what Prometheus opened up, seems to be falling to the wayside.

@Hox

Yeah i forgot about that comment by Bishop ;)

Using a NUKE simulator, which cant be taken as Gospel..  i showed the effects of a 100MT Nuke (Most Powerful Nuke ever developed but only Tested at 50MT) at Ground Blast and did the same for a 1MT Blast to see the difference.

So we can assume something that would Vaporize Nebraska would have to be MUCH MUCH Powerful, doing some comparisons i would ASSUME such a Blast would have to be the Equivalent of 7500MT of TNT and then the affects of such a Blast as far as Radiation may make such a Plot of using Radioactive Eggs and NULL and Void...

But of course we DONT know how much Protection the Derelict would give.

Regarding HOW FAR the Derelict is away... this really is open for debate because we have NO Data... not that i am aware of.

Looking at how fast the Vehicle was going in ALIENS DC and the Terrain, i would say 30MPH is a Good Estimate, we dont know if the Terrain is as Hostile for the Total Distance.

We can only Estimate the Speed of the Vehicle  which i would think would be at least 25MPH but i cant see these going faster than say 80MPH  but again looking at the Terrain and the Video Footage, you could assume they was traveling across that Terrain about 25-40MPH Max.

Then we dont know how long you would take the Kids with you, on one hand would you put the kids through a Long Journey?  Why not have them stay with someone else on Hadleys Hope while Mommy and Daddy have to go some place...  But then maybe if its a LONG Journey maybe they would take the kids with them?

So its hard to speculate on how long they drove for and at what speed...   all we can do is maybe take Bishops Word for it and then a BLAST that Strong would have to have about a 500 Mile Radius as far as Fire Ball effects.. and Heavy Blast Radius (that would Down Buildings and Kill 100% within). 

 But as we dont know any of the DATA and looking at the Engineers Ships, i think we could speculate that MAYBE the Eggs Survived, and also the possibility of them being Contaminated by Radiation is Plausible.

IF they gave us another Movie where they salvaged the Derelict i am sure they could come up with a Valid Reason for its Survival by using a combination of the Protection the Derelict offered and how tough the ship was, and the Distance away from Hadleys Hope.

IF they did this then its likely they would not even give any details... it would be like "Sir we managed to extract the Alien Ship, shes suffered some Damage from the Nuclear Blast but she is intact, we have detected levels of Radiation so we need to take precautions"

I will add that the Simulator only allows up to 100MT  Tests and so maybe i would need to use a Asteroid Test that would give Yields required to Blast Out most of Nebraska?

So as with a Asteroid Impact of that size, we can easily assume that the Blast would Create a Crater and Eject MASSES of Material into the Air, which could BURY the Derelict Far Away.

@Rapty here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84EiBakZ_Vg

hey big dave, thanks for the awesome feed back.. i think as the first draft approaches completion we can start to definitely look answer some of these questions. im just hopeful you all would think this to be a good basis for a story and how its content can be improved upon ill leave it to you guys.. the fans! im currently looking forward to start a degree in creative writing in September and looking for a potential publisher /publicist who may like to pitch my work. ill be working on this more over the weekend. i do have some really good changes already made as well as some dialogue however rather than drop it in piece meal ill keep updating with a good chunk of extra content. 

ignorantGuy what episode does he mention the Xeno!? I have not come across that one yet.

I've been thoroughly enjoying his Outward Bounds colonization series at the moment, and have only deviated to Stupid Aliens and a handful of others briefly.

I've seen him briefly mention the Yautja/predator species in the above Stupid Aliens series. 

BioDegradable Very interesting. It also seems pretty consistent with some things BD hasn't publicly posted.

Thoughts_Dreams

I presume it is safe to say that you are a bit obsessive dismissing the central if not the biggest character in the Prometheus and Alien Covenant.

At this point, what you are really doing is ruling out the few semi-feasible ideas floating around. And it is not like there are many of those to choose from and dismiss this, that or the other. Yet here you are, kicking BigDave into fetal position over and over.

Have you put out any possible scenario for future follow-up of your own in any considerable details? Perhaps some particularly interesting aspects or key ideas that you deem worthy pursuing? Please, consider putting a meaningful effort into this and let us see the results.

BigDave

not many fans of David are here, ay?

With David gone, you get an end to the journey of Peter Weyland to immortality. I question if it should be dismissed and abandoned by focusing on a rather already thin and bankrupt alien xeno species?

It also will not make a lot of sense, given the constraints of screen time and scope where the sequel should indeed march towards the inevitable, to introduce yet another species or another unknown and therefore intriguing mystery, be it engineers or some aspect of them or about them. Don't you get overwhelmed at some point seeing no end of the same trick being played again and again? Santa Barbara in space? The world is rich as is and doesn't need introduction of other mystical creatures to play out any interesting ideas. So no engineer world exploration. None of that gimmick.

For the sake of Peter Weyland and his journey, David as his descendant needs to leave some form of enduring concept if he is to be ejected because of the pressure by alien fans. Otherwise, what is the point of Prometheus, Weyland and his journey? With David gone Weyland's spirit is erased in that imaginary Alien universe. It will remain only as a nonsensical name, a brand of some mega corporation without any being(artificial or otherwise) that can claim to be a descendant of illustrious and worthy Weyland. Ironically, David is also the carrier of Shaw's spirit. Long story short - you get rid of him, you can actually forget watching Prometheus.

For me David is what Peter wanted to be, but couldn't. In fact Peter envied David. They are actually one and the same character - both ruthless, a bit egoistic(understatement) and grandiose. Of course, they are both worth their salt. So what shall be the legacy of Weyland/David? I think BigDave got it right - it has to be the next step of evolution of mankind. And they should be practically immortal - something that Weyland wanted for himself.

However, given the constraints there won't be any world building, terraforming and all that for these creatures. What should happen is this: we are shown how these perfect humans are engineered by David, he makes a few(most? all? of the embryos) of these while on the Covenant on the path to Origae-6. And when he reaches the destination - he only finds a barren planet that will not sustain life for his children. Of course, humans on earth made a mistake expecting the planet to be wonderful - after all it is only human to make mistakes, ay David? At this point, Planet 4 or the Earth is the only known places that can sustain life. And both of these planets are soon to be full of humans. Now, of course, these sub-humans are not life worthy and dangerous to David and his ilk. So he has got to do what he has to do - sometimes to create one has to ...

It is only handy that he has his other children - another perfect organism which will no doubt do the job. So he will have the remaining colonists converted into eggs, load them up on one of those ships on LV-223 and go bomb the Earth. That is the plan anyway. There is not enough of eggs to be made from human colonists so some of his new children will have to be sacrificed for the greater good, according to David anyway. Except that his children might not like his idea completely. How do they settle the argument?

It would seem reasonable for Disney to pony up funds for a 6 episode mini season- each being around 20 minutes, and then seeing if there is enough support to continue. 

@hox,

Good points,

But remember that LV-426, AKA Acheron is a moon with an equatorial diameter of 12,201 km, and a rotational period of merely 2 hours. The night side of which was, in 2122, beset with a constant and violent Stormfront (think Crematoria from Chronicles of Riddick, but flip day and night)

Using Pie multiplied by Diameter, or 3.14159 x 12,201, gives us an equatorial circumference of 38,330 km (Earths is 40,075 km).

30mph is akin to 48 kmph, meaning it would take the Jordens' prospector 798 hours, or 33 Earth Days to circumnavigate LV-426.

I have maintained lately that I believe it took Hadley's Hope 20 years to find the derelict Juggernaut because the violent night storms prevented travel too far from the colony, and that the colony's Atmosphere Processor may have eventually tamed said night storms allowing for the Jordens to venture out toward the coordinates given to them, indirectly by Burke, Carter J.

Definitely, they are watching. But I don't believe, if they will do a live-action Alien series, that they will do a low budget one. Like Mr. Iger said, they are starting "from a position of strength, confidence and unbridled optimism.”

I think an Alien series on this format is a big question from franchise fans. I can't shake the feeling that Disney is monitoring reactions to the IGN shorts to see if they should do a series.

Long term members who were here when this was Prometheus-Movie.com will remember that I too postulated the possibility that the Juggernauts are living vessels and female in nature, referencing Moya from Farscape and the Vorlon vessels from Babylon 5 as contemporaries.

I made the same observations regarding the "Set" inspired artwork BigDave showed us, showing the aliens lifecycle that Giger made for the first movie, and the obviousness of the three vaginal shaped entrances, and the possibility that the cargo bay was akin to a womb - although I now believe the eggs to be in an "augmented" dome upon which the derelict Juggernaut has docked with (more on that in a fresh topic, soon).

I also envisioned/speculated that the Space Jockey, and by extension the Engineers connected to the vessel on more than just a physical level - that the connection was mental and sexual also. This could even be used to explain why David murdered Shaw, slaughtered the Engineers and recreated the Xenomorph; because he was coerced by the Juggernaut.

@working joe & hox,

Again back in 2011/12, I postulated that Paradise would likely be a dark reimagining of the Wizard of Oz, with Giger and Lovecraftian inspired landscapes and grand visuals, with Shaw and David being guided through a series of macabre and deeply philosophical revelations. And at the beginning of this journey, I imagined the Juggernaut docking onto a landing platform atop a spire by having three phallic shaped erections enter into the Juggernauts three exits. Furthermore, I imagined at the tip of these phallic structures would be a small sealed hole that when touched would stretch open allowing those within the Juggernaut to pass through and inside them, with them acting essentially as penile airlock umbilicals.

I wonder if they will ever stream an Alien series on Disney +. 

So this service starts in November for $7 USD a month (probably a basic SD package)- not bad. They will need a lot of content to attract customers who don't GAF about superheroes or Disney kid shows. If an Alien series was confirmed, tbh, I would probably wait until the series was complete, sub long enough to watch it and then unsub.

Faulty hardware, I’d say, after many decades of operation. The neutral power cable to my house burned out a while back. Since then, my Apple TV intermittently forgets what it’s doing. Knackered. I got a replacement in the end. David’s ‘brain’ is not a perfect design. It probably has marvellous self-repair mechanisms, but damaged memories are damaged memories. And when one note is off...

NB, that’s a theme covered in another Scott film: Hannibal. Lecter winces visibly when a member of the orchestra plays a few duff notes.

If the Juggernaut has three ‘vaginas’ on its front side, I imagine there must be some kind of ship somewhere with three ‘penises’. Or maybe she enjoys group sex!

@chli, Bishop told us in all seriousness that the vicinity of Hadley’s hope was about to become a cloud of vapour the size of Nebraska. If that’s true – and there’s no reason to believe otherwise – the Juggernaut would have to be at least 100 miles away from the colony to survive the blast. Probably more like 200 miles.

If the Jordan’s vehicle could sustain an average speed of something like 30mph on LV426 – possible if most of the journey was over cooled lava – that would mean a six or seven hour ride, which is not unreasonable for a pioneer family.

in my opinion, the Juggernaut did not get fried, and the eggs are still there.