Comments (Page 308)

For movies, it was definitely Jurassic Park. Later on I discovered Alien, Predator, and Godzilla. 

First science fiction video game I really enjoyed (outside of Jurassic Park) is definitely the Halo series.

We will carry on the legacy as best we can ^ ;) 

They were a dodgy knock-off of Terminator, with Pre-Matrix type cyberpunk gun battles

You can watch the full first movie on youtube for free

This Series of I V's shows Ridley and the others fired up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMjiVgl7nmc

At 10.16 he says this film ends with you looking into whats next. However you can sense that Damon from the directors commentary was concerned that it may look as if the franchise was being hijacked. He was on point with fan boy attitudes in monster franchises.   

I only know Star Trek Nemesis and Resident Evil Nemesis.

Definitely the original Predator! 

Does anyone remember the Nemesis films? 

Ooooh I love Half-Life

@Michelle Johnston it's nice hearing from you ... but i wonder if RS himself even loved it, or the Movie is Vickers and MF is David?

Hi Lone,

As you are such a positive light around these parts I thought I would offer some brief thoughts on your celebration.

Prometheus was like lightening from the sky. It had the audacity to propose a creation, which was neither Darwin nor Faith. An intelligent Creation, that requires participation in the most unsentimental aggressive way imaginable.

It is set in a universe that brings into play the founder of Weyland Corp, hell bent on extending his life by subterfuge and whose companions on the journey include (Science- Milburn/Holloway, Faith- Shaw and Knowledge – David). 

That when he arrives he should find the creation technology had been stolen and misused is the perfect morality tail, which reaches its zenith when this pathetic old man asks a boon of the sole survivor of the species that was intent on pursuing a genocidal upgrade on Weyland's. 

But even better who survives this delusional nonsense – the person of faith – who needs ‘knowledge’ to ask her questions, still clinging on to a moral faith based creation. She storms into the heavens with ‘knowledge’ and will get the shock of her life when she realises none of them were right.

Fantastic, amazing, extra ordinary and the tale is drenched in symbolism both visually and narratively. Added to which we have the daughter upstaged and preferred to by her robot brother, a promiscuous incautious gay man and an old fashioned loud mouth who runs in the wrong direction at the first sign of having to show some bottle.

Here though is how I express my love for  this movie.

For Charles Holloway, who had truly believed he was going to enter into the presence of his makers this moment is a profound disappointment, he responds quietly, wistfully knowing all his dreams are shattered. “This is just another tomb.”

Stood at the entrance one wonders how they would have reacted at that moment if they had been alone and not with their sub created colleague, would they have attempted to gain access?

David’s emotionally neutral curiosity was dangerous but even more so was his master’s remit to find answers whatever the consequences, the door was going to be opened it was inevitable, but would Charlie and Elizabeth have opened it if they had been alone?

If they had really understood over the next 2 minutes 40 seconds, just 160 seconds, they would receive all the evidence they could possibly need to understand man kinds origins, a future that had been avoided, for now, and witnessed the hand of God, would they have opened the door? Of course they would have, their particular behaviour was part of the answer to their questions.”  

Extract from the Pithos of Pandora its contents to be poured out 25.12.18.

Lone Between you and MonsterZero, that makes a lot of sense in connecting to Alien.

Yes, perhaps at least some of David's memory transferred to Ash. Is that why Ash was so protective of the Chestburster & pretty reluctant about providing suggestions on how to deal with the Alien? "I'm still collating." 

Does he feel a connection to it? Was he actually able to communicate with or exert some control over it, just as David had with the Neomorphs? I wonder if that was where Ridley eventually intended to go as an explanation for or tie in to Special Order 937.

 "I think there has been speculation around here that David's memory may have somehow been transferred to Ash. "

Yeah..I think that was one of my suggestions...I thought it would be cool to see David(Ash) killed by the crew of the Nostromo....But if they can upload/download then David/Ash/Bishop/Call/Walter/MUTHUR are truly immortal. You can never kill them.

Love Prometheus and would like to see the trilobite return. Tie the series together.

Zombie Fifield is my favorite spacemonster......Semi intelligent. Might be able to create an army of these mutants...then give then an antidote(human again) and send them to their next mission.

"Okay boys..Drug up!"

Have the antidote remote release from deep inside their body.

"Jobs done...Bring em back..."

MonsterZero I think there has been speculation around here that David's memory may have somehow been transferred to Ash. 

If you think about it, it is arguable that Ash was even better than David in some ways. Ash looked middle aged and not exactly athletic and a bit grouchy- what a great cover! 

It is interesting to hear about what grabbed people into being sci fi fans. Indeed, video games may have started that interest as far back as Space Invaders, Tempest and Asteroids. Mass Effect, Crysis, Half Life, Portal et all certainly have sci fi street cred.

My interest into the science-fiction genre initially began with the Crysis video game series developed by Crytek, boosted further with Guerrilla Games' Killzone video game series, and peaked with Bioware's Mass Effect video game series. All three are amazingly wonderful and highly enjoyable in my opinion, but that is how it came about for me.

^The first two got me into sci-fi.

4) WHY was ASH so Fascinated by the Xenomorph?

Would be cool if David met Ash sometime in the past(or future).

Maybe start Alien:Covenant 2 with a scene betwixt the two....(Sort of like the meeting between David and Weyland.)

David could communicate with his old friend even while Ash is aboard the Nostromo....while Ash is faking hypersleep or when Ash is up and about...he probably only got in the chamber when he needed to.

David can brag about his 'creations'.

Jurassic Park (technically a sci-fi), then Star Wars: A New Hope, then Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, and of coarse ALIEN.

BigDave Sincerely, are those questions really that important or didn't we know already know the answer:

1. and 3. From 1979, that were the clearly anti-corporate critique in the series. It does not matter what they will do exactly with it, they want it for there profit-driven agendas,

2. That is a contradiction between the new movies and the old ones, about which the writers did not think about.

4. There is no way to answer that which would not be convoluted.

 "From the Moment David Pulled the Trigger on those Engineers to the Moment Dr Shaw took her last Breath" is that even the correct order? And what could happen there the ship crashes, they fight she tries to run, he catches her and he experiments on her catatonic body for years? Which part would you like to know more about?

BD:

“I think its a case of what made a movie a Alien movie?”

Yeah, to me what is central to it is that you have well done human characters that get into situations that they are not prepared to deal with (to me this is the central thing that the franchise is about). I guess that this has to be tied to the SJ and the monsters in a way. You do not need to have exact Xenos in every movie, there are things to play around with story-wise. Ripley was important in the first three and eventually 4 movies but she is not what the themes are about. They are not about Ripley, Shaw, or Daniels if you ask me. I don’t miss Ripley in the prequels honestly even have a link to her in them would feel forced/lame if you ask me.

The SJ could be interesting to make a story about but they have not done a very good job with the SJ or Engineers this far. They should have had better writers if you ask me and keep Scott away from the story-writing otherwise we get lame crap like David being responsible for the Xeno. Maybe Alan Dean Foster could write a script that they could use as the final prequel if there will be one but it seems to me that if Scott will be a part of the story-writing it will be a disaster, he is a good visualist though.

I hope that they make a good link between the SJ and the eggs but if David is responsible for the eggs I will shake my head because that would be dumb.

Having a background to the SJ is per default not bad but they should have done the Engineers better. In AC they looked like cheap peasants, which was a shame. They could have done that a lot better.

“ it seemed those at FOX felt the movie was just steering away too much from ALIEN and the whole Gods Plot is maybe not what would get Fans on-board and that RE-INTRODUCING the Xenomorph back and giving Fans those Answers was what would be best and to now Steer TOWARDS Alien, and further from where Prometheus may have taken us.”

If you by Alien you mean Xeno then maybe, they just needed some better links to it in Prometheus but that was not the main problem with it. The lack of characters was a lot worse than the Xeno link in Prometheus but Fox never seemed to understand that part of the criticism. I wish that the Xeno would have had a closer link to the Engineers than David because at least the Engineers look closer to the SJ than to David.

David was OK in Prometheus but he came across like a murderous psychopath in AC. I found him a bit interesting in AC but not sympathetic, not a bit. This with the lack of well-made human characters makes AC a movie that I will probably not watch again, it is a let-down.

“Because the Xenomorph and Reasons for David creating it are maybe not far off the reasons it may have been intended. “

OK but having a man-made robot responsible for it makes it too close to humans. Story-wise it might be interesting but for the alien-movies such a thing fails to me especially if it is almost totally about the robot and with weak human characters.

The story of David was alright in Prometheus but but in AC he was just evil and crazy and wanting to create. The differences between him and Walter were interesting but it became too much about them.

AI, if you mean androids this is not why I watch alien movies, that part is not very interesting in the context of this. If Scott wants to make movies about robots then do that in another movie, don’t use the Alien franchise for it because that is not why I watch these movies. Sorry, I am just not interested but a non-alien movie about that could be interesting if they use well-done human characters.

Maybe the company could be expanded on if they get some interesting characters there. I would rather watch that than another David movie but then you need some good guys in the company that we can sympathize with that try to warn people like they work in the company and do work there and then they discover what the agenda of the company is so they go to war against it (like Ripley did).

“I feel this is in part the reasons for the route Ridley Scott was taking.... and for those who feel AI has not place in Alien... it actually could have a LARGE place behind the Scenes.”

OK, but that is not what I am interested to see in an alien movie, I see what you mean though. We kind of got that a bit in AC and it was just not very good. Sorry to say it but I got zero interest in that if the AI/robots would be the main thing in it, leave that to Blade runner or something. If they want another failure like AC then sure make it about androids but my interest won’t be in it.

You mention AR, I see what you mean but to use that as an inspiration might not be very good since AR is what it is so to speak. That movie never made me care about the AI thing.

“So the AI aspect in the Franchise kind of makes sense... it could even lead to a ALIEN 5 (as my planed idea was) that the Auton Cult that CALL belonged to, had secretly set up the events of AR so CALL could obtain Ripley 8 for the Autons own.”

They could make a book out of it, it is not something that I would watch.

"It seems obvious that we could learn only from David about the Engineers' ways, only by deciphering their files and not by direct questioning from Shaw."

I think daliens  this is one of the Important things to consider, a Problem any Script Writer would Face..

Say Dr Shaw and David meet these Gods, these beings, it is a Question of WHERE is Paradise is it FAR/CLOSE to Earth?  

What do these beings know of our Creation/Intended Destruction, so can they provide those Answers.. if they are aware of these then how do they view Mankind and the Fact we have Created in our own Image and are able to not only Travel the Stars but also use (via David) their Technology and get to their Worlds.

We then reach the Problem of if these beings dont take to kindly to David and Dr Shaw, then what chances do they have?  Do they get Saved by a Engineer or Group who have good intentions?  Does David use the Black Goo as a Bartering Device or Eradicates them?

Depending on HOW FAR these beings live away and how they would feel about Dr Shaw rocking up with her Synthetic Sidekick demanding Answers.. really could affect how the Franchise is carried on.

From ALIEN to ALIEN 3 Timeline it appears there was not interaction/aftermath of Engineers coming back HELL-BENT on taking us out.  We could say the same with Alien Resurrection.

So we have to Ponder that any beings David/Shaw meet have no interest in Mankind and see us as NOT a threat in-spite of our ability to Travel the Stars and Created beings who can use their Technology.   The further away these beings are the less likely they would be concerned... but they would still FEAR about what was left on LV-223.

So we would have to conclude Does Something Happen that prevents these beings from being able to pose a THREAT to Mankind.

So we likely would be looking at the Discovery of a small contingent of Engineers left after some Mishap who had abandoned their Technology/Space Faring ways. or that via some Action of David/Dr Shaw....  these beings are NEAR ENOUGH all Eradicated.

This Potential Problem... is why it was maybe easier to just WIPE them under the Carpet with Davids Bombardment, as then he could from their ruins....  perhaps gain the information and answers that Dr Shaw wanted.

If David Cared for Dr Shaw, and does not want to be Alone without her, or he also or even only wants to insure his own Survival.... then for him DESTROYING those Engineers was the Logical Course of Action... in which he could Salvage from their City and maybe a handful of Survivors those ANSWERS for Dr Shaw.

So even with the ALIEN COVENANT Plot... there was the potential for a period of time where Dr Shaw was alive and some Engineers where David could obtain those Answers either for Dr Shaw or himself... but we have YET to be shown what happened.

From the Moment David Pulled the Trigger on those Engineers to the Moment Dr Shaw took her last Breath, there is quite a lot that could have been covered/discovered but its a case of would it WARRANT a movie within the Alien Franchise that a lot of Fans would sit through?

SURELY... a Novel should be made to cover these events however.

First i will put this Reply i had to Thoughts_Dreams on another thread...  its roughly where/why the Prequels started, where they Evolved to and where maybe RS could now have been taking us.

========================

"To me it was too much about the robots, that is not what I am looking for in an Alien movie."

I think its a case of what made a movie a Alien movie? for most fans it was the Xenomorph and Ripley, but when doing a Prequel Series its hard to incorporate Ripley, unless the movie is set not far before Alien but then we have Miss Weavers Age... she wont pass for a 30 odd year old and a Prequel with Ellen Ripley would surely have to be set 5-10 years prior to Alien... with the Age and also Contradictions/Plot holes this could bring.. and then making it about Ripleys Father, Mother or other relation would make it too much about RIPLEY

The Xenomorph had been done over and over and the AVP movies did reduce it to a lesser threat than it was during the first few movies.

But we still did-not know HOW/WHEN/WHY those Eggs ended up on the Derelict, and WHERE/WHEN/HOW did the Space Jockey come into contact with the Xenomorph Eggs and WHY?

This ^^^^^^^

Was the reason for covering a Prequel...

*What Relation did the Space Jockey have with those Eggs, and WHY would he be carrying them on his Ship.

*Where did the Xenomorph Originate from, was it something Found/Discovered or something Created/Engineered.

These are the TWO Big Questions, rather than WHAT HAPPENED to the Space Jockey, as we can answer those TWO Questions without having to even show the Space Jockey Fate/Event.

ONCE.... you answer those TWO Questions, its then what DOORS does this open up for the Space Jockey, do we go off to explore who he was and what his Race was and what their Purpose is?  Or do we go off to cover more Xenomorphs?

Maybe the TWO could be expanded and covered more in Unison depending on HOW they explained their connection.

When working on the Prequels... they had decided to give us a Background Story to our Space Jockey Race... which tied these beings as being connected to our Creation and the Chariots of the Gods/Ancient Aliens Theory.. a BOLD Plot... one that allowed the Universe to be EXPANDED beyond Xenomorphs.

ALAS... the Prequels Started, but they then decided that actually we dont need the Xenomorph Origins or Space Jockey Event Spoon Fed, and we dont need to see Xenomorphs as they had been done over and over and so they would concentrate on clues to how the Xenomorph could be connected/created but more so to look at the Reasons WHY and WHO would be involved in such a things..

Which was our Creators the Engineers...

And so PROMETHEUS was born.... but from the aftermath, it seemed those at FOX felt the movie was just steering away too much from ALIEN and the whole Gods Plot is maybe not what would get Fans on-board and that RE-INTRODUCING the Xenomorph back and giving Fans those Answers was what would be best and to now Steer TOWARDS Alien, and further from where Prometheus may have taken us.

And then Alien:Covenant was born....

From this they took David the most interesting Character, and chose that making a Connection/Answers to the Xenomorph was the way to go rather than pursue answers to WHO created us and WHY and then WHY they would want us destroyed (also then throwing out WHAT/WHO else they created) while allowing the Creation, Creator Philosophy to be played out in the Proxy/Eyes of Weyland/David

So we have gone from exploring the Space Jockey/Xenomorph connection as Ancient Angry Creators and their Intentions to UNDO their wayward creation as in context to covering more of WHY and explore WHO these beings was and WHY they create life, and then WHY/WHEN they got involved in all those Horrific Experiments related to the Xenomorph/Black Goo.   Which may all be taking the Franchise off Tangent and to a place thats not really connected to the Franchise.

To then go the route of AC which will connect to the Franchise....  Because the Xenomorph and Reasons for David creating it are maybe not far off the reasons it may have been intended. 

Because going deep into the Engineers and Gods etc could be a distraction from Alien and also such a BOLD plot can be tricky to continue and then contradict the Franchise.

One ELEMENT within the Franchise is AI, its something overlooked by many,  but we have to ask such Questions like this.

1) WHY does the Company Pursue the Xenomorph, to what END and HOW could they possibly have any use for it? Considering the FOLLY that in continued to pose and THREAT?

2) WHY the above when they could have spend more time with the Engineers Secrets and Black Goo?

3) WHY was Mankind/Company so not prepared, yet so much should have already been known with Special Order 937?

4) WHY was ASH so Fascinated by the Xenomorph?

And by going the AI route as far as the Natural Order of Creation, Rebels against Creator and becomes Sentient and wishes to be the NEW Gods... this fits with the Prometheus Themes and some of the Ancient Mythos/Religion themes.

So we can be brought to a Universe where AI plots to overtake and RULE Mankind, while keeping Mankind subdued and NOT aware of the Actual Plan... so a VERY Matrix kind of Theme...

Going the Route of AI/David playing a behind the Scenes Role in the Pursuit of his Creation or AI in pursuit of one of their own kinds Creations, fits with the Philosophy of Prometheus but then also helps to give INSIGHT into Reasons behind those 4 Questions i posed.

I feel this is in part the reasons for the route Ridley Scott was taking.... and for those who feel AI has not place in Alien... it actually could have a LARGE place behind the Scenes.

The LAST movie made in the Original Franchise was Alien Resurrection and besides the usual Ripley, Xenomorph and Company.... we see indeed in the Back Ground we have a World where AI has gone on to by the looks of it, have a Major Impact on Earth, and AI has even Sub-created itself with the Autons who are hinted to be involved in a Conflict with their Synthetic Creators.

The Autons appearing to have adopted a Ritual/Religious notion, and so we can see a Future Earth/Galaxy where AI would pose a threat to Mankind and prove to be a GREAT Hubris for us... as not doubt our Creation was for the Engineers... but we see the FINAL layer as the Autons being a Creation to Great Hubris to the Synthetics.

So the AI aspect in the Franchise kind of makes sense... it could even lead to a ALIEN 5 (as my planed idea was) that the Auton Cult that CALL belonged to, had secretly set up the events of AR so CALL could obtain Ripley 8 for the Autons own Aim/Agenda.

Reveal some Religious element to them, but also Cultural like the Engineers and even have them WORSHIP ... DAVID and their Pursuit of HIS Creation too.

At their Ultimate Hubris.... thus showing the Xenomorph/Strain as the Ultimate Act of perusing a Perfect Creation at a constant Great FOLLY.

"To me it was too much about the robots, that is not what I am looking for in an Alien movie."

I think its a case of what made a movie a Alien movie? for most fans it was the Xenomorph and Ripley, but when doing a Prequel Series its hard to incorporate Ripley, unless the movie is set not far before Alien but then we have Miss Weavers Age... she wont pass for a 30 odd year old and a Prequel with Ellen Ripley would surely have to be set 5-10 years prior to Alien... with the Age and also Contradictions/Plot holes this could bring.. and then making it about Ripleys Father, Mother or other relation would make it too much about RIPLEY

The Xenomorph had been done over and over and the AVP movies did reduce it to a lesser threat than it was during the first few movies.

But we still did-not know HOW/WHEN/WHY those Eggs ended up on the Derelict, and WHERE/WHEN/HOW did the Space Jockey come into contact with the Xenomorph Eggs and WHY?

This ^^^^^^^

Was the reason for covering a Prequel...

*What Relation did the Space Jockey have with those Eggs, and WHY would he be carrying them on his Ship.

*Where did the Xenomorph Originate from, was it something Found/Discovered or something Created/Engineered.

These are the TWO Big Questions, rather than WHAT HAPPENED to the Space Jockey, as we can answer those TWO Questions without having to even show the Space Jockey Fate/Event.

ONCE.... you answer those TWO Questions, its then what DOORS does this open up for the Space Jockey, do we go off to explore who he was and what his Race was and what their Purpose is?  Or do we go off to cover more Xenomorphs?

Maybe the TWO could be expanded and covered more in Unison depending on HOW they explained their connection.

When working on the Prequels... they had decided to give us a Background Story to our Space Jockey Race... which tied these beings as being connected to our Creation and the Chariots of the Gods/Ancient Aliens Theory.. a BOLD Plot... one that allowed the Universe to be EXPANDED beyond Xenomorphs.

ALAS... the Prequels Started, but they then decided that actually we dont need the Xenomorph Origins or Space Jockey Event Spoon Fed, and we dont need to see Xenomorphs as they had been done over and over and so they would concentrate on clues to how the Xenomorph could be connected/created but more so to look at the Reasons WHY and WHO would be involved in such a things..

Which was our Creators the Engineers...

And so PROMETHEUS was born.... but from the aftermath, it seemed those at FOX felt the movie was just steering away too much from ALIEN and the whole Gods Plot is maybe not what would get Fans on-board and that RE-INTRODUCING the Xenomorph back and giving Fans those Answers was what would be best and to now Steer TOWARDS Alien, and further from where Prometheus may have taken us.

And then Alien:Covenant was born....

From this they took David the most interesting Character, and chose that making a Connection/Answers to the Xenomorph was the way to go rather than pursue answers to WHO created us and WHY and then WHY they would want us destroyed (also then throwing out WHAT/WHO else they created) while allowing the Creation, Creator Philosophy to be played out in the Proxy/Eyes of Weyland/David

So we have gone from exploring the Space Jockey/Xenomorph connection as Ancient Angry Creators and their Intentions to UNDO their wayward creation as in context to covering more of WHY and explore WHO these beings was and WHY they create life, and then WHY/WHEN they got involved in all those Horrific Experiments related to the Xenomorph/Black Goo.   Which may all be taking the Franchise off Tangent and to a place thats not really connected to the Franchise.

To then go the route of AC which will connect to the Franchise....  Because the Xenomorph and Reasons for David creating it are maybe not far off the reasons it may have been intended. 

Because going deep into the Engineers and Gods etc could be a distraction from Alien and also such a BOLD plot can be tricky to continue and then contradict the Franchise.

One ELEMENT within the Franchise is AI, its something overlooked by many,  but we have to ask such Questions like this.

1) WHY does the Company Pursue the Xenomorph, to what END and HOW could they possibly have any use for it? Considering the FOLLY that in continued to pose and THREAT?

2) WHY the above when they could have spend more time with the Engineers Secrets and Black Goo?

3) WHY was Mankind/Company so not prepared, yet so much should have already been known with Special Order 937?

4) WHY was ASH so Fascinated by the Xenomorph?

And by going the AI route as far as the Natural Order of Creation, Rebels against Creator and becomes Sentient and wishes to be the NEW Gods... this fits with the Prometheus Themes and some of the Ancient Mythos/Religion themes.

So we can be brought to a Universe where AI plots to overtake and RULE Mankind, while keeping Mankind subdued and NOT aware of the Actual Plan... so a VERY Matrix kind of Theme...

Going the Route of AI/David playing a behind the Scenes Role in the Pursuit of his Creation or AI in pursuit of one of their own kinds Creations, fits with the Philosophy of Prometheus but then also helps to give INSIGHT into Reasons behind those 4 Questions i posed.

I feel this is in part the reasons for the route Ridley Scott was taking.... and for those who feel AI has not place in Alien... it actually could have a LARGE place behind the Scenes.

The LAST movie made in the Original Franchise was Alien Resurrection and besides the usual Ripley, Xenomorph and Company.... we see indeed in the Back Ground we have a World where AI has gone on to by the looks of it, have a Major Impact on Earth, and AI has even Sub-created itself with the Autons who are hinted to be involved in a Conflict with their Synthetic Creators.

The Autons appearing to have adopted a Ritual/Religious notion, and so we can see a Future Earth/Galaxy where AI would pose a threat to Mankind and prove to be a GREAT Hubris for us... as not doubt our Creation was for the Engineers... but we see the FINAL layer as the Autons being a Creation to Great Hubris to the Synthetics.

So the AI aspect in the Franchise kind of makes sense... it could even lead to a ALIEN 5 (as my planed idea was) that the Auton Cult that CALL belonged to, had secretly set up the events of AR so CALL could obtain Ripley 8 for the Autons own Aim/Agenda.

Reveal some Religious element to them, but also Cultural like the Engineers and even have them WORSHIP ... DAVID and their Pursuit of HIS Creation too.

At their Ultimate Hubris.... thus showing the Xenomorph/Strain as the Ultimate Act of perusing a Perfect Creation at a constant Great FOLLY.

@Lone

Thats a pretty nice summary, and pretty much how i saw it too, it was a case of trying to offer a bit of Alien, a bit or Aliens, while giving us the beginnings to our answers about HOW/WHO/WHY the Xenomorph was created, while giving us something a bit NEW (Neomorph), while taking what they thought was the most interesting Character from Prometheus with David, and trying to give us a slow build up like Alien where we can connect with Characters, where the Last Supper Viral was also a extra to allow us to make a connection to the cast...    and then following with some of the themes from Prometheus, and sadly showing us just a bit of Dr Shaw and Engineers that was necessary so we could make a connection to Prometheus as far as what became of both after Prometheus until Covenant.

Sadly the way some things was handled was not to many fans tastes (Davids Character, the use of Engineers, Dr Shaw and the Curveball David Created the Xenomorph) and also the movie was just not long enough to do all the other aspects any justice.

P was a good movie that poses a lot of questions. But AC as a follow up of P never answers the questions P raised in a way that would satisfy most people who liked P for what it is. It is actually too vague to draw any meaningful conclusions from it - that is how open it is really.

Prometheus is a story with a lot puzzles, which are naturally intriguing and captivating because it has biblical references which no doubt get traction with a wide section of population and it has technology(in its ultimate form -  David). Besides, it tells the story of how human wants to evade death - everyone at some point wishes to have that choice.

And it really looks good.

PS:

ignorantGuy, it is kind of hard to make sense of some of the things you posted, but, the neo-morph is an organism that was born from a human being devoured by the flying beast. The planet 4 had no humans, so those two fellows, one of whom Oram shoot down were unique in the sense that David had no knowledge of them before Covenant crew arrived. So they presented interest for David.

I like to think about what is versus what could possibly be. I am interested in science in general, both different areas of it and the history. My father probably encouraged me to keep an interest in it plus I am also a curious person. Science fiction is a what is versus what could be so that is what makes me interested in it. I like to read sci-fi books (Asimov is a good author but there are many of them) and watch movies about it.

As long as people wonder about what could possibly be that is as long as science fiction will be around even though it will probably change in popularity during different periods in history.

“what I don't like personally is the NEED for all this bonus material just to get answers. that's what the film is supposed to do.” - Ali 81

Exactly that

They could have cut out some scenes with David and replaced them with scenes that fleshed out the human characters and gave some answers to things that were more interesting. They even showed us the scene where David cut his hair, that scene could have been replaced with something that would have made a better movie.

Nope, to me the movie in general is a failure with some interesting things in it. As far as buying extra materials to get answers I would not do that. This is not to say that they need to spell everything out but you see what I mean.

Maybe you can sell the AC novel at a book store for used books so you can get some of the money back if that is what you want.

“Sadly it does not all ways work like that, they also know that those who wanted more answers/clues would PURCHASE a DVD/Blu-Ray if it had some of these in the Extra Material.  Its a way to make more cash from us..”

My take on it is this: put it in the movie if it is needed. I will not buy the movie if it is put in the extras,  no matter how many cut scenes there are or how many bonus stuff they have in there. Put the necessary character building scenes in the movie or else forget that I will buy it. It is a shame if people need pirated stuff to get the things that should have been in the movie just because the movie makers have done a bad job at editing it.

Hmm, I haven’t watched it after I saw it in the movie theater which was last year. The more that I have listened to the Perfect Organism podcast (I like that one by the way so check it out even though I am far from downloading all episodes I download maybe 33% of their shows) and read about it here the more I think that it is a very flawed. My main problem with it is that it lacks good human characters except for Oram which I found interesting but maybe not the smartest one, I just didn’t see what their traits as characters were (humorous, smart, adventurous, etc.) and also you need more than one or two traits for a character to work. Michael Fassbender * 2 was interesting because the differences of their views on things but it became too much and the flute scene was too long and slow although it was interesting. Unfortunately it was too much about robots of which one was a psychopath (David) so that made the movie worse than it could have been.

Shaw and Daniels were not well written or well executed if you ask me. I got to choose Daniels as the better character if someone would ask me because at least she was not annoying.

For me I need well done human characters to like a movie, no matter what it is and Alien Covenant mainly didn’t have that. Star wars usually get that right and also the first three Alien movies did that so why are the prequels not very good at it? Prometheus had the same problem as this one so they did not learn from it although they are less annoying in AC but I think that P is the better movie between those two. Nope, as far as characters go AC, Prometheus, and AR are almost at the same level to me at least which is why I put them very low on my Alien movies list of how I rank them.

To me it was too much about the robots, that is not what I am looking for in an Alien movie. Fassbender did a great job but it became too much and the flute scene got me tired towards the end of it because it was too slow plus I do not watch these movies for the androids.

I do not care about the themes/ideas if I don’t find the characters interesting or sympathetic. This is like finding a painting that you find ugly but you say – well that is an interesting painting even though it looks ugly. Making David responsible for the Xenos is just effed up so I just don’t have words for it.

“Sadly within the Confines of 2 hours they could not do ANY of it Justice, and its Evident the Emphasis was on David, and all other things had to be 2nd due to the Limitation of running Time.”

That is why it fails, to paraphrase Yoda (that is one of the reasons why I like the original trilogy of Star Wars since it has so many memorable things that they say).

Nope, this is one of the worst alien movies this far. Lone said that Aliens wasn’t that good and while it feels dated/have an 80’s vibe I still prefer it over Covenant because the characters are simply better done. Aliens is third at my list after Alien 3 and Alien but everyone have their own opinion about them and that is totally fine. I agree with Lone about the Newborn, it looks crappy but then the Xenos looked bad in AR also. Trying new monsters isn’t automatically bad but sometimes it just doesn’t work for one or many reasons.
I-Raptus: I totally agree with you about Oram. He was my favorite among the human characters. I never understood how Daniels was. All I remember is that she wanted to build a cabin near the lake which is a really bad thing when she was supposed to be the main human character when you only remember her for that. This is not to say that Daniels was the worst but I remember her for that since she was poorly developed but also since she had a big role. Sure the less important ones were badly written too but I remember her that well since she was important to the story. Tennessee? I never understood how he was as a character, it is not that he was annoying but I never understood what he was like.

DK: I agree that the franchise has been messed up. I would maybe like to see a spin-off movie with Engineers or Xenos or something related that is not in the official time-line. This does not mean that we need another AVP but maybe a spin-off where humans battle Engineers or something related and/or some Xenos or Xeno-related monsters that the Engineers did. Oh yeah, if they would make another movie where androids have as big role then they need to have good human characters that we can sympathize with. I am not totally against movies where androids have a big role but they need good human characters for it to work.

The story was alright, my issue has got to do with the characters. David and Janek were the only characters that I found interesting. The crew members of Janek were not dumb or annoying (except for see you on the other side kind of comment, or however they said that) but we didn’t see too much of them. Vickers could have been alright if she would not have been so bitchy in her attitude but at least she was not dumb like Shaw. They could have made the Engineers better while making more sense of them. It was too much of a guessing game and not everyone want to sit through it 50 times to understand what it is about (I am kind of patient so I can watch it many times the figure out what it is about).

If I want to get another alien prequel. My attitude to that is well it depends on if they get the characters right, good environments, monsters, and so on don’t mean a thing if the characters are not well done. Less David thanks, the last movie (AC) was all about him, boring and yeah he was better in Prometheus.

Give me more about the Engineers and make them threatening as hell. I agree Lone that the Engineers are very interesting. Make them either those that made the original Xeno from scratch so we get rid of that thing that David did it or that they found something and made it from that.

Let Ridley handle the visuals but keep him away from the story otherwise we will get another movie about David, that would a huge disappointment. If Ridley insists on being involved in the story process then get another director since he is not a writer.

Yup, Prometheus was beautiful as far as the aesthetics are concerned but I need more than that.

If we will get a conclusion of Prometheus, I am not sure. It depends on what parts that you want answered I guess. Personally I want to know a bit more about the Engineer culture and their connection to the Xeno. There got to be things about them that are more interesting than the little that we saw of them in AC (that wasn't very impressive).

The story is first, characters is second. Some people think that the themes are important but if I do not get a good story and well done characters then I frankly do not give a damn about the themes.

Yup, the pathogen was interesting too bad that it made less sense in Alien Covenant. I think that I do not want an answer to where it came from. I prefer to keep that as a secret so we get something to think about.

Prometheus is not the worst Alien movie but it is far from what it could have been. At least it is better than Covenant, AR, AvP, and AVPR.

Lone Before Covenant I would say I loved it, but now I know it is unrequited love. So might have been better not to like in the first place (and no, this is a series and movies cannot be taken separately).

And you can art which some can deem be "beautiful", but do they make sense in a show don't tell way? For me at least David lair does make much sense. If you go for precision in D's handy work (nicely sectioned egg on the table), why make that shoddy chair? Why would he be angry at Oram killing a white when he already killed many of them? And those a literal Renaissance picture even work on a planet of Advanced space faring civilization? 

Thanks for your replies peeps!

I agree that both movies would work better as stand-a-lones. PROMETHEUS in particular. Could be partly because that was the original intention? I've always felt it would have been received much better if it had been promoted as a new RS directed Sci-fi movie, rather than as being directly connected to ALIEN.

It seems to me that The Crossing was intended as part of the theatrical release & I wonder if Advent was possibllly meant to be included too? I remember reading somewhere that Fox wanted Ridley to cut the Black Pathogen bombing sequence too, but Ridley wouldn't budge on that! Still it explains why it was so short a scene.

daliens & dk I know the Hammerpede, Cuddles & The Deacon never sat well with a lot of people, but I actually feel that they were quite worthy Lovecraftian creatures & as such, quite Gigerish. Not full on biomechanical Giger, but precursors to his aesthetic, which makes sense as they were pre-biomechanical. 

I Moon Girl I'm glad it was made too! I think it's a beautiful & wonderful psychedelic trip.

Also worthy of note are it's brilliant use of practical effects. Covenant too. Ridley kickstarted the return of the Artisan- hugely talented artists & craftsmen whose work is breathtaking to behold!

I can’t imagine my life without Sci-fi. Some of my earliest reads were Who Goes There? by John W. Campbell, Jr & classic Lovecraft, most notably, At The Mountains of Madness.

TV shows I loved were Lost In Space, Land of The Giants, Star Trek, Doctor Who & Blake’s 7. More recent favourites include The X-Files, The Strain & The Walking Dead.

Can’t remember how old I was when I first viewed Forbidden Planet, probably 4 or 5, anyway it was instant love! Same with the original Planet of The Apes, it blew my tiny, young mind!

Robby The Robot appeared in two episodes of Lost In Space, my two favourite old clunky robots together, it was bliss! Robby & Robot B-9 were both designed by Robert Kinoshita, no wonder I loved them both! 

I saw loads of old Sci-fi movies at Saturday matinees at my local Cinema. Including lots of 60’s Japanese stuff, and Godzilla. 

A L I E N is the one which had my synapses firing like never before. Its brilliant combination of people & elements really hit home with me. A Sci-fi-horror-heavy metal-grundgy hybrid, which paid homage to classic oldies & had an amazing roster of some of my favourite artists on board. Moebius, Giger, Foss, Cobb etc. O’Bannon & Ridley pulled all of that together & Ridley added a layer of claustrophobic realism. It was a Lovecraftian nightmare come to fruition, but what a beautiful nightmare!

Thanks dk you've provided me with an excuse to reminisce! 

I love technology and I love the imagination that people have when writing sci-fi movies and, in some cases, novels.  It's just interesting to see what the future could be like.  I like the realistic sci-fi movies, which is what I think drew me to the ALIEN franchise.  I always thought when I was younger that ALIEN took place in the future.  Basically, after the event in the movie takes place in our realities timeline, it would be in the history books.  ALIEN just seemed to be so realistic while trying to portray the future.

I like to keep up with what NASA, so I'm just interested in space too.

In short, I love the creativity that is shown in sci-fi movies when the writers try and depict what the future could be like.  The more realistic, the better.

The first sci-fi I remember watching is Star-Trek.  I also remember reading some books when I was real little that had the main character as an alien with anger issues.  I also remember loving the sci-fi of ALIEN, yet having a hard time watching the horror flick.

I really can't remember what got me starting to love what I do love about sci-fi movies though.

ADDITION:

I would also like to add that I loved watching the original Star Wars trilogy.  My parents recorded them on VHS and I just watched them over and over again as my parents tell me.

I remember in the Empire Strikes Back that there was a static line that would pop up at the same spot every time I watched it.  Eventually, when a friend of my bought the trilogy, I watch it with him.  At the static line scene, my mind when in completely shock when I didn't see that line there.  It was pretty upsetting actually since I got so used to seeing that line.  I knew exactly when it would show up.

I LOVE Prometheus.  It was spot on, yet it has its little flaws which do affect the movie.  I give Prometheus a 9 out of 10.  Regardless of my rating, it is still an exciting movie to watch.  Even when you know the story, the movie is still exciting to watch because of the visuals.

Alien: Covenant wasn't scary to me at all.  Prometheus was.  I felt like Prometheus has more in common with the ALIEN franchise than Alien: Covenant, even though there is a Xenomorph (or Protomorph) in Alien: Covenant.

The similarities could be:

1. It is scary (or at least has one scary part for everyone, right?)

2. It's got secret agenda's

2.1.  It's got character's that are supposed to be on the same side clashing with one another, which drives the story at a certain point because of their agenda's

3. It's got a well developed sci-fi environment and props (yet Alien3 didn't have this, but it was written right to make it work)

3.1. Alien: Covenant didn't really have much in sci-fi that hasn't been seen before and, if it did, it didn't explain or show it well

4. It's got humor with some adult humor mixed in

5.  It's got multiple character's that are memorable

6. It's got something that makes the universe we live in seem so much bigger and mysterious

That's all I could think of at the moment.  Add and correct this list if you want to.

I feel like ever since ALIEN, the franchise wasn't as fresh anymore; obviously, since the Xeno isn't mysterious anymore.  I feel like Prometheus gave us something completely fresh that was actually similar to the original ALIEN movie.  It was a great way to reboot the franchise.

Despite the flaws, I'm glad Prometheus was made!

daliens Good point. Sci Fi seems to include AI in general and for good reason since AI is a big part of our real world. That said, it would be interesting to see sci fi go with more human elements- Black Mirror is a good recent example imo.

The Deacon seemed like a fan service stroke job too. Cool creature but it went nowhere.

It's like Covenant could have been if Oram did not stop by Planet 4 but carry on with the colonisation of Origae 6, where the ruins of an alien civilization are found. No android on board either.

It should be on any sci-fi fan bucket list.

I still wonder what Fox intended with the release of Advent and bringing the Engineers back on topic. Did they feel the need to explain some of the questions raised by Prometheus, to shed some light on their legacy, their place in the universe? Do those murals have some meaning?

("You wouldn’t believe the secrets I have unlocked. There was so much potential on this world. Wasted by Gods that feared their own might. They convinced themselves that sacrifice cleansed them of their sins. But in the end, they were like me. Creators. Beings that understood you must give life both to the wolf, and the lamb. But then they tried to banish the wolf, And undo their creation. So I took their secrets for myself.")

It seems obvious that we could learn only from David about the Engineers' ways, only by deciphering their files and not by direct questioning from Shaw.

I wonder if we will ever get back (in any form) the missing time elapsed between Prometheus and Alien Covenant, including the ten years spent by David on Planet 4.

To answer the topic, Prometheus would have been great, in my opinion, without the silly horror elements, less crew and subsequently less ridiculous dialogues and deaths. The hammerpede and trilobite did not convince me, I prefer the creatures from Covenant.