Comments (Page 431)

I covered this before....

Star Trek, and Star Wars?

Star Trek is about exploration of the Cosmos, going to place never visited before, Strange New Worlds, meeting various Alien Species, some Hostile....   Star Trek pits Humans against other Alien Races, sometimes working with other Alien Races.

Star Wars, was more a Story about the Force and Skywalkers... it did however introduce many Alien Races, and the Main Antagonist in the Franchise was the Sith and the Empire/New Order as far as Storm Troopers and this Empires Agenda for Domination, but it started from Clones, a Defensive Weapon Created to deal with the AI threat of the Separatist Droid Army

The Alien Franchise CAN NEVER match these, not just based on following only the Xenomorph, Mankind facing the Threat of Rogue AI Synthetics and Xenomorphs would not make a Star Trek or Star Wars, following Ripley is kind of like a Star Wars, but i think making the Franchise about Ripley like Star Wars was about Skywalkers to me would not really work.

PROMETHEUS.... however opened the Door to HUGE Scope... The whole Creation and Engineers ARC offers Endless possibilities,  So did the Engineers just appear as a Ancient Race who Created Mankind, then Created the Bio-Weapon Vases that David then created the Xenomorph from?

Do we have...

Humans (from/on Earth)

Engineers (from Planet 4/LV-223)

Synthetics created by the Company

Xenomorph created by Synthetics..

Do these make a Star Trek/Star Wars Universe?

NOPE.... but do we know if Earth was the only Place the Engineers Created Life, do we know if Planet 4 and LV-223 are the only places the Engineers are?  What other Horrors can the Black Goo Create and what Horrors went into its Creation?

So indeed if the Engineers are Genetic Space Gardeners, and if we wonder who created them, the Scope for many Humanoid Races in the Alien Franchise becomes HUGE and so indeed could be like a Star Trek/Star Wars.

He has made other comments that go against this too though....

He is right about it being hard, you cant set up a ALIEN Prequel to connect to ALIEN and ignore the Xenomorph, but you cant have TWO movies with Xenomorphs running around Terrorizing Colonist, the Xenomorph has to be handled with CARE, there is more chance of Overcooking it if your are not Careful.

Only Fanboys who well would like Popcorn Avatar, Power Rangers type Flicks would be pleased about seeing Xenomorph after Xenomorph, and seeing basically TWO movies that are like a Alien Resurrection and Aliens...  There are other Fans who felt the way the Xenomorph was in ALIEN was unique and different and once we decided to showcase him off too much it lost its appeal... its COOL, but its not Scary anymore.

so you have to try something else, but then as your doing a Prequel, you cant ignore the Xenomorph, it has to be used well.

Interesting, indeed RS said he would want to explore AI more, and who knows if we cant rule out more Walter Models, David indeed tried to get Walter to join him, but Walter was more committed to Duty to the Crew and was concerned and had knowledge of the David model Short Comings.

HOWEVER.... We cant rule out the Covenant has more than one Synthetic?  For such a Large Scale Mission, that has 2000 colonist, plus embryos, setting up a Colony would be a Large Task, and the Meet Walter Viral Marketing shows that Walter Models can be programed to perform many roles...  For a Colony Mission would taking ONE Synthetic be ideal, as they are very USEFUL Tools.

EVEN IF... there is just one Walter, would such a Mission not take Spare Parts to Repair and Maintain this WALTER?

We need to look at Fassbender, can you see him return in a sequel that would be more about AI and play the role of a One Handed Android?

IF David intends to turn all those Colonist into Eggs, then a Extra Hand would help and i dont mean as in another Synthetic but who knows, but i think David would want to repair his missing Hand.

More so if we consider David may plan to Charade to the Colonist as Walter, and offer a cover up to what happened on Planet 4, and David/Walter appearing Damaged would raise Questions.

So its interesting to ponder what would happen on route to Origae-6, i find your post interesting...

My ideas for AC actually has a Prologue where we shall see David Re-Build a Walter from Parts and then Transfer his Soul into this Walter and get Rid of David, so that NOW David can fully Charade as Walter and a Walter with no signs of Damage, a Walter where the Colonist can inspect him and notice he is a Walter Model as there had been some Advancements since David.

I truly think we will see David Transcend his Soul into a Walter Model in the next movie.

BigDave

"Psychically like a Human its only Emotionally where they are different" well that is true only for Dick's novel. In Blade Runner, some of them are extra strong, cold resistent and it might be that they have some healing "factor", while emotionally they are very human like (Batty loving Pris, Deckard Rachael, etc...), in other word's as Dick himself put it they are SuperMen. While David looks like a human, eats, has his hair grow, walks like a human (at least in Prometheus, but he stutters in AC), and with the evidence he has no superhuman level strength (easily pushed around by Vickers, his head was easily ripped off by the Engineers, and Ash was not abnormaly strong in the original).

@Timmy

Exactly....

I think people need to read into Ridley Scotts comments and they can see what he was trying to do, people can blame him for AC, but i think we need to look into his comments over the years more, and he is either bonkers and has Split Personality with TWO different contradicting ideas... or indeed he was keeping FACE value to please FOX.   Ridley Scott had said about Prometheus and how it was not connected to Alien, that the idea was to provide loose connections, but to explore something more than just the Xenomorph and Space Jockey, he felt you had to keep some Mystery and he felt after Prometheus there would be enough for people to make the connection without it having to be Spoon Fed...

Because we need to remember, how do they Spoon Feed the Space Jockey Ancient Event, in a movie and a Time-Line where Humans would maybe not play a large part...  Have the Engineers and LV-223 outbreak explored and what give us Subtitles to the Engineer dialog?  Ridley Scott and FOX felt that exploring the Engineers and other themes was more important,  and a Direct Alien Prequel with Human Explorers in the same Century of Alien would lead to a more Recent Event....   

So Prometheus explored something a bit more different but gave clues, and then RS even in Interviews then explained the whole Space Jockey Event, but keeping it ambiguous only as far as showing us it was connected to LV-223 Outbreak but ambiguous to it being either  a few hundred years prior which means those experiments and Mural etc in Prometheus was a result of Re-Engineering the Eggs, or it being a event a few hundred years after the Outbreak, which means the Xenomorph was a result of those Experiments/Mural

Ridley Scott felt the beast had been done, cooked and decided that directly spoon feeding it back would not be needed and a Prometheus Sequel would start to drift further away from Alien....   BUT THEN... and we need to REMEMBER THIS there was a Backlash with Prometheus, so FOX felt that they needed to actually make the Prequels now Directly give and lead up to the Answers of the Xenomorph, HOW/WHEN/WHY and how they ended up on the Derelict...  but by going a Spoon Fed Route could have altered the Time-Frame to make it a Future event after Prometheus...    So they indeed began this with Alien Covenant, i think RS was disappointed about not being able to EXPLORE the path he wanted...  and he maybe bargained  with FOX to at least allow him to keep David as a important Character and then throw in that Curve-ball about him being the Creator?

You see it appears RS felt the Franchise had Cooked that Beast, Turned a Monster (who he felt was more than a Monster) into a Space Bug, and so i feel RS lost interest in the Xenomorph, and felt the REASONS for Creating the Xenomorph and the whole Space Jockey/Engineer Arc was more important to Follow as this was FRESH it had never been covered before.... not like the Xenomorph that had been cooked with a Apple in his Mouth (so RS had said).

We can clearly see this was what RS was on about, with his comments after AC like how he felt with Prometheus he felt he was ahead of the Game, and once again mentioning the Xenomorph has nearly ran its course, you have to do something different, and about how there is only so much Face Pulling and Chest Bursting you can do.....

We also have to remember the Marketing to AC and RS saying "the fans want Aliens, ill give them F-ing Aliens" to me this shows me RS was not a fan of the route they are taking compared to his Prometheus 2 envision.

The Problem thats upset fans, is the use of the Xenomorph, but maybe RS intended this as a F-U to the Xeno, so he can then be like.... see i gave you Xenomorphs, right in your Face (out of the dark) and did it make a Great Movie.... NOPE!  but who knows if this was what he was doing?

The other Problem was the David creator of the Xenomorph, but this follows the Themes he was setting up with Prometheus, about Creation and Creator would create and his Creation would turn out not as planned become Rebellious and then Sub-Create and how this continues...   so if we are creations by the Engineers, who created them?  I think RS was to explore that the Hierarchy of Creation does not start with the Engineers and the Source i had in Feb 2015 said the Hierarchy of Creation does-not start with the Engineers and it does-not end with David, and thus it appeared we would find out more about the LV-223 Engineers what their role was and who created them.... while also seeing David Create something himself.

But he had to make changes to please Fanboys and make AC and so i think the David Re-Creating something had then been evolved into David actually Creating the Xenomorph...

I would like to know why its not appropriate to let your kids watch Alien films even though they are now technically Disney films....lol.

It was worth a try anyway

I am not sure he knows what to do anymore.

"But if the Engineers would be so interested in David, why did one of them pull his head off in disgust?"

This is a good point and its a very ambiguous scene, my point was in regards to maybe which ever beings either created us or gave the order to, and maybe who are above those Engineers, the Mural in Prometheus i always felt was to represent something they had became proud of and worshiped for some other reason than it being a GOD.  I have a extensive theory on this, but part of it i had to wonder if those Engineers could not Procreate anymore then the encounter with/creation of something related to the Xenomorph that would then impregnate a Engineer and in affect allow them to give BIRTH to Life could be seen in high regard by those beings, and i think they experimented on the results and tried to Perfect it, and then Sacrificed it to produce the contents of the Black Goo Vases/Urns...   If these Engineers saw the Mural as being something Perfect they either created or attempted to, then if they came across Davids Evolution of it, i would think they would be very impressed by it.

Going to the reasons for the Engineer ripping Davids head off, its something that is a bit open for debate, because at first the Engineer was very intrigued by David, once he learned he was not Flesh/Blood and a Creation of Man, the Engineer took pity on David but he no doubt was angered by Weyland and chose to use the head of Weylands Creation to destroy the Creator.   The Engineer also no doubt realized that Mankind had created its own Life that was able to use the Engineer Technology and thus this Engineer would know that these AI Synthetics with Mankind could get their hands on and use Engineer Technology/Knowledge and secrets and he simply could not allow this to happen.

The Source i had from Feb 2015 had mentioned that the Engineers (i assume LV-223) are more in common with David than Mankind.  A interesting thought... one i had a few times pondered but i always considered it in the way that the Engineers were a Creation of maybe a higher beings above them... Although i was open to them being Genetically Engineered and thus like Replicants it was something that i was 50/50 with because of other clues and Jon Spaights who had these Engineers as Creators.

However in Retrospect when looking at the Sources Comments, then looking at the Planet 4 Engineers in Alien Covenant and how Ridley Scott called them the ORIGINAL Engineers, what does this mean for those LV-223 Engineers?   Could this be a hint that YES the LV-223 Engineers are a Genetically Engineered Superior Slave Race created by those Planet 4 Engineers, are the LV-223 Engineers thus to those Planet 4 Engineers as Replicants and Synthetics are to Mankind?

If this is the case, then indeed The Engineer and David are similar, and it would explain the Engineer taking Pity on David for a moment...   Ridley Scott said the next movie will look at AI, but he also said that Rachael and Batty are also AI from Blade Runner (Nexus-7 and Nexus-6) i find it interesting he mentioned them as AI when talking about his AI plans for the sequel to Alien Covenant.... because Replicants are Genetically Engineered which means unlike David they are Psychically like a Human its only Emotionally where they are different, so you could cut open a dead Replicant and not tell it was not Human, but with Synthetics in Alien Universe you can tell a damaged one is not Human.

Thus the AI element may be more further than a MAD ROBOT David, I am sure Prometheus and Alien Covenant left some unanswered Questions regarding the Engineers, many fans was like WTF! when they saw those Planet 4 beings and would have liked to had explored and was expecting to see more about those Glossy Pale Superior beings in Prometheus...  So maybe we will get to finds out more about these beings, and so who knows if we will get the reveal that the LV-223 Engineers are to the Engineers what the Nexus Replicants are to Mankind.  Which would mean the Source i had was correct.

I am ridley scotts side here. the original 3 alien movies are in my opinion a perfect trilogy that should not be messed with. ressurection was sort of like a spin off branching of of that main centeral 3 movie tmeline. so are the prequels. this is how it should stay. 3 core movies with other movies branching of of them. sort of like starwars. the saga movies and then the spin offs( rouge one, han solo). if blomcamp replaces alien 3, it will seriously mess up a timeline that has bean well established and wil also considerably shrink the universe.(without alien 3 there is no dna reflex trait witch means all xenomorphs walk on 2 legs and look humanoid no matter what the host is) also, in defence of ridley scotts alien prequel: we honestly nead some sort of closure. there is 2 face huggers a mad android and 2000 sleeping colonists all headed tword the engineers homeworld. if people cant make a decent script with that, i really dont know what they would nead. we would also get to see more of the engineers and  possibly engineer bred xenomroph, could also clear up the majot missconception that david created the xenomrohps to the genreal public and explain some of the things leading up to alien. there can still be some ambiguity but if the whole point of the prequels is to explain were the space jockey came from and it never dose that, then it makes prometheous and aline covenant irelivant and disconnected to the rest of the franchise.

Thoughts_Dreams

And other 29% to other Fassbender roles.

lmao XD good one but in all seriousness i really want to know his haircut style in that scene. David is on the right in that picture btw. any info would be greatly appreciated! 

Looks like David even had his crazy Ozzy bad haircut moment. I think the hairstyle is called "I was Fu$#ed up/crazy and decided this would be a great idea" haircut.

I can see Thoughts' point but I think the Giger touch really set it apart from everything else at the time. Over the decades, many others have "borrowed" from that style.

@Thoughts_Dreams

Giger's part was probably the most significant and most important part. Without art/set design, a director only has people to film, and Giger made Alien a work of art, more so than Ridley Scott. 

@ Big Dave

“My other Concern is Miss Weaver, as it appears Blomkamps Alien 5 did not directly replace Alien 3 at all, and there was NO Ripley...  until he discussed it with Miss Weaver.”

In the link I have provided (Timeline 23:47) Blomkamp confirms what you have said.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YpX6MumIr8

I just wonder who really would be in the driving seat of an Alien V movie, and I wonder if Neill was coerced into sharing “his” so called vision with pressure from Weaver.

Personally I think there has been something severely overlooked. Alien and Aliens have been the most successful movies of the franchise because of they shared a common element. They both had cats. Put a cat into the background story and that will alter everything.

@thought_dreams True, his visuals are beautiful. 

I also thought it was good. that is why i am asking it almost looks like it lacks gel, like its dry yet stays up the way it does. any info would be greatly appreciated. lol love the shears pun tho.

Easy, take a pair of shears and clip away. In all seriousness, I thought it was a nice looking cut.

*I moved this to the Alien:Covenant forums for you. :D

I would not mind some Giger influences in the next movie. At the same time we got to remember that the success of Alien was because of many different parts, the Giger aesthetics was just one part of what made Alien great.

Zogar:

"If Scott is asked to direct, he will have to play ball and realize that he isn't running the show or making the big decisions. He should not be allowed screw with the script and realize he is telling a section of the Alien story not the entire thing."

This, I think that Scott is good at the visuals and to build landscapes but he seems to be crappy at writing stories. There was a podcast at either AVP-galaxy or at the Perfect organism podcast where they said that Scott is not a writer but more of a visualist, I think that fits well in the description. It seems that when he is trying to interfere with the writing we get dumb ideas like David being responsible for the Xeno. Nope, let him direct but keep him far from anything that has got to do with the script otherwise we will get another movie that is 70% dedicated to David (yuck!).

BigDave I have always supported the Amanda Ripley/Isolation route since it has a very strong story and has a legitimate reason to exist. I had not considered your idea of Weaver actually playing as Amanda- Genius idea!! 

David interesting idea. But if the Engineers would be so interested in David, why did one of them pull his head off in disgust? 

Gods I hope so. That video was awesome. Giger is the Alien franchise end of story. 

I agree that Disney will follow the money and invest in Alien 5. They did it with Star Wars as The Force awakens follows that same beats as A New Hope and has most of the original cast. So it looks like they will take on Blomkamp's ideas. To bring the Aliens cast back, they could go the route of some organisation (possibly those that know what happened on the Origa 6, if Daniels or someone else escaped) boarding the Sulaco and replacing Ripley, Hicks and Newt with exact copies (perfect clones) created from engineer technology (they have stolen). The story could continue then about 30 years later in another part of the galaxy where this organisation are tracking anything alien or engineer related and preventing any outbreaks that could be caused by Weyland Yutani's meddling. 

I think it would be good to use the engineer technology further as it could be a good plot device to further the story. It seems that the whole Alien universe is a battle between AI and humanity. There is an android in every movie that has sinister motives in most of them. It also looks like Weyland Yutani is run by AI, possibly David's code or undetectable virus and is using the companies greed as a catalyst to destroy humanity. The aliens are AI's saviour as the perfect organism. 

I think the universe needs to be expanded with bigger players and the prequels should be used to set these players up. We need to see the humans that know the sinister truth and have stolen engineer technology to fight back, the engineers that are seeking out David to destroy him and like you said BigDave to carry out the last step in perfecting the Alien. 

Again I suspect Disney will go with nostalgia to make the franchise profitable again. Newt will carry the torch on from Ripley. If this is successful Disney will go ahead with completing the prequels to link to Alien 1979. If Scott is asked to direct, he will have to play ball and realize that he isn't running the show or making the big decisions. He should not be allowed screw with the script and realize he is telling a section of the Alien story not the entire thing. That's what made the Marvel universe so successful, different directors telling each story to add to the whole. If he doesn't just direct he could be fired just like what we have learned from the Han Solo movie, Disney don't take any shit and don't bend to egos. Scott needs to learn that the Alien universe is bigger than him, he needs to keep his ego in check and let others play in the sandbox. 

Thoughts_Dreams

Resident Evil: The Fassbender chronicles live ! Yes it is Paul WS Anderson joke.

Big Dave:

I only consider movies to be canon, everything else is fiction. As far as what happened I think that it is alright to keep Prometheus and Alien 3 as cannon. Prometheus was alright and Alien 3 was a good way to close the Ripley story. By the way if they take A3 out of the official time-line I would be disappointed.

To me they could erase the whole Alien Covenant thing and write another movie that would follow what happened  after Prometheus. AC is a disappointment so erasing that story would not be a problem to me.

Yup they reduced the prequels to be about David, that is a shame since there is so much else to explore in the franchise.

Having a story about the Engineers, their relation to the Xeno and that was alright it is just that they didn't do it right. Hopefully they can change this with the next movie but we will see. Making it the David story annoys me more than reducing the Engineers but to make it more about the Engineers you got to cut down the importance and screen-time of David because I feel that I have had enough of that at least is such a big portion that we have seen him this far. If Ridley likes the David character then fine for him but you also got to think about the audience and how they have responded this far.

Making the Derelict younger is not a big problem for me. Sure it is a small disappointment but my biggest dislike (except for the failed human characters) is that David is the creator of the Xeno. There is no way that it is a satisfying answer, the only reason for this mistake is the over the top interest that Scott has in Fassbender and David, I doubt that there is another explanation for it.

"But then they could CHANGE it so that we see David has simply Re-Created the Xenomorph and his Creation does not end up on the Derelict... OR they could have it that the Engineers or Some other Race connected, take DAVIDS Creation and EVOLVE it."

This, but that depends if they care about that fans or not. If they would make the Xeno a creation of David, it would almost feel as useless as the killing of Luke, not exactly that much but at least it would be a big disappointment. Killing Luke killed Star Wars and making David responsible for making the Xeno would ruin a lot of the alien franchise, that is what I am trying to say. Two franchises that are about to go down the toilet and there is not much time between them, I never thought that I would witness that.

The mural makes sense the way you put it but I wonder if they wold make any reference to it in the coming movie? I would like that in some way since it makes sense.

I would rather see this but I am afraid that Scott cares too much about David too much.

@Critters5

Yes Disney now own the Property of FOX including the Alien Franchise, its  a case of would they Produce a Alien movie and are they in a Rush to do so?   They could License it out to another company however. 

At the moment it appears any Alien Movie will be on HOLD

I think if Disney do choose to follow through with a Alien movie be it a Alien Covenant Sequel, a Aliens Sequel, a Alien Resurrection Sequel or another Alien movie within any of the Time-Lines i do think Disney would certainly be in contact with the HR Giger Estate to bring more of that Atheistic back into the Franchise.

Indeed, i think this is the Problem we have had after Alien 3, the other movies dont use Characters well, they are just Plot Devices, Alien, Aliens and Alien 3 used the Xenomorph and Androids only as sub-plots and it was about the Characters more, they had more depth.

I totally agree we need to get back to this more....

It will be hard to avoid David in the next movie, its also hard to bring in Human Characters with how AC ended, the only ways Human Characters can be used, to any effect would be if we are shown Davids Experiments on the Covenant Crew Back Fire and a Section of the Ship becomes infested and is Quarantined

The Covenant then arrives near Origae-6 and another Section of the Ships Colonist are awoken, and go to explore the Ship and then Uncover the Quarantined area and the Xenomorphs get loose. This was one idea i had for how the movie can move on after seeing AC, a movie that would kind of be a Alien 3 in Space, well a Alien 3 meets Alien...  Dark and Claustrophobic where some Survivors Escape to Origae-6 but then we can use this to tie in a 3rd movie...     Funny enough the idea i had would be a Movie similar to Pandorum  i had never heard of this movie when i had these ideas, it was months after when someone mentioned it on here that i managed to track it down and watch.

The only other TWO options to bring better use of Human Characters, would have to be a CHANGE of Heart on Davids Part, where he allows the Colony to be set up, maybe he has a hidden Agenda, but he allows them to set up a Colony but then something has to happen to allow the Xenomorph to be brought back, because these Prequels look like they WILL connect to ALIEN... for this Plot to work, we have to arrive at a time set years after the Colony is set up... we can have Flash Backs and Naration by David to events that happen prior between AC and the Next Movie, much like we had in AC, but the  most of the movie has to be set Months, or Years after the Colony is set up...  but then something happens that would allow for the Xenomorphs to go on the lose....  

THIS ^^^ is the route by idea for the Sequel is taking..

The 3rd option to have good Characters, has to be ONE of the Above ideas to have taken place, but we By-Pass these events and arrive at the AFTERMATH  where a incoming Human Ship arrives after either of those Plots has Passed by and discover the Horrors that Transpired.... this would be a bit ALIENS however.

Thoughts_Dreams

Well maybe Scoot does not care about David that much, but about Fassbender, making the series into something akin to Resident Evil or Underworld, and that is even worse.

BigDave:

Well they portray it as being about David since he is getting most of the screen-time so people see it as being a story about David and then what does it matter about the themes if people see it as something else? If this is the case then I see it as bad writing since they have failed at delivering their idea or message. The Last Jedi is not good, I despise how they treated Luke, F that. You put it at the same level as TPM, I can totally see that because that is how I view it right now at least. I have not watched TPM for many years and I guess that the same will go for TLJ so that tells you a bit how I look at that.

"… and AI does not mean Robots and Machines, it could mean a Creation/Life that is not Naturally Created or Born."

If you would ask people what AI is I guess that they would reply with robots or machines so label it like AI is misleading maybe. It is still about David because at least that is how it comes off at the screen so I do not like that but I understand what you are trying to say.

Red0Guy:

I agree, I am not sure why they didn't expand on the ideas that the murals showed. They do not make a lot of sense if they decide that David created it. Maybe they should have left the Xeno as a mystery because they have not done a good job this far at explaining it. Yup, the way that AC comes of is that it is about a mad robot with a creator-complex which is totally boring then if the theme is creation and hierarchy matters less because that is not how it looks like on the screen.

"in Covenant, only the mad robot remained."

Yeah, I wish that they would have killed him so we would have gotten more of the human story.

RickT:

Maybe that is a good thing because Prometheus and AC are not that good even though I prefer Prometheus so I will not be sad if they make him reduce the role of David. An understanding of the story is what Scott does not have, he thinks that it is about robots but it is not. Alien 1 to 3 worked because of interesting human characters that we as an audience could identify with as far as understanding the fear that they faced when they got into those situations. One can discuss the various flaws that Alien 3 has but it is my favorite movie but even there there are characters that are interesting and that at least I can feel some sympathy for even though they have done very bad things. In Prometheus and AC there are every few interesting human characters that I care for so it does not mean a lot when they die.

My reason for bringing up the characters in Alien 1 to 3 is to show that Scott does not care that much about that compared to the robots but by doing so it makes me less interested in any other alien movie by him. Judging from the two prequels that we have gotten this far I think that it is a good thing that they put a leash on Scott so they hopefully will avoid to have his most boring ideas in it.

The trailer means less if the movie is not good. As far as I know the same thing went for Prometheus. Some parts of the movie was alright while some of it sucked. I liked the landscapes, I liked how they portrayed David and Walter and also Oram was alright. Most of the characters didn't add anything and also their personalities were thin as I don't know what.

Covenant is probably one of the worst movies among those that are alien connected. I watched it some times to give them some money so we would get a sequel but now when I look back at it it is without a doubt a movie that has a long way to go before it would be good. Nope, it is not a movie for me and well I think that I enjoyed Prometheus more because it had less of David and also David was better in that movie.

Do you mean this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svnAD0TApb8

"This did not mean the movie was on Hold, it would likely be a case of trying to look at why AC did not do as well as expected and consider if changes needed to be made with their plans, as surely FOX would not want to push ahead a Sequel that sets up a 3rd Alien Prequel that connects to Alien but then finds the sequel does not do well..."

It seems that the post went OT very fast. They have gotten the androids right this far, even Call was Alright.

Why AC did not do very well or more like why I did not enjoy it very much:

Mostly bad human characters
Too much focus on the robots
Too little about the Engineers
A hint that David created the Xeno, which is crap

They got to get the human characters right and I also want to see more of the Engineers and they got to get that right. Reduce the role of the robots because it is boring, Ridley might like it but I do not. Ash in Alien, Bishop (Aliens) and David in Prometheus were all alright but they made David worse in Alien Covenant. I liked the difference between David and Walter in AC but that lost some of its shine in Alien Covenant since they sacrificed (or to be blunt: did not give a shit about) the human characters and favored the robots.

The Engineers was a good idea but it was badly executed in Prometheus but please try to get that right because it could be interesting. Another thing is: how many prequels do they got to make until we get to the original movie? I am not sure that they want to do very many seeing how Prometheus and AC did. Maybe they will do two more at a maximum.

Good points Thoughts_Dreams i think the Problem we have is the Prequels have opened up more revenues to explore, and AC kind of close to the door on them a bit,  Prior to the Prequels it was Ripley and Xenomorphs, the Companies Agenda also being a sub-plot, the AI being just a Character and not anything the Plots Revolved around much.

Some Fans disliked the Engineers ARC, some Fans dislike the David ARC, but some Fans also dislike the Camerons Bug Hunt and Queen, i think Disney have to look in Retrospect at what disappointed fans with Alien Covenant, and this is something thats not easy to ANSWER, some may feel the Engineers were brushed under the Carpet, some wanted to follow Shaw and the Philosophy,  But some fans were Disappointed we did not see more of the Xenomorph, and still no REAL Answers to the Derelict...    But i feel the Disappointment that seems to keep re-occurring more with a higher % of complaints is the CHANGE of Direction of the Space Jockey Event being something more RECENT but bigger than this is how the Xenomorph is now a MAD ROBOTS Creation.

They could still RUN with this IDEA and RS feels its Interesting....  But then they could CHANGE it so that we see David has simply Re-Created the Xenomorph and his Creation does not end up on the Derelict... OR they could have it that the Engineers or Some other Race connected, take DAVIDS Creation and EVOLVE it.

THIS ^^^^^ Fits more with the whole Engineers ARC, we are shown they are Genetic Gardeners, and what is the Purpose of this?  We are shown the THEME of Creation, which applies to DAVID too, you see after Weylands Death, the Merger Between Weyland and Yutani have taken Weylands David and Evolved him into the WALTER models.   So a good reason for Creation and Experimenting is EVOLVING and PERFECTING something.

Prometheus showed us the Engineers had been creating and experimenting with STUFF that links to the Xenomorph DNA, The Mural a sign of Worship of some Deacon/Xenomorph Organism.. Is it a GOD? I dont think so, i think its a SIGN of the Engineers Encountering and Evolving Something or Creating Something that they deemed to be PERFECT or hold in HIGH Regard...     DAVID has taken the Genetic Makeup of what these Engineers HELD in such high Regard and Created something from it, Evolved Something From It... PERFECTED something from it.

So you could easily see the Reason for the Mural as far as the Engineers being something they worked to achieve and were PROUD of... so we can easily see if the Engineers (or Hierarchy) Discover that Mankind has not only Created its OWN Lifeform be it AI, but that Mankinds Creation in DAVID is more Perfect than the Engineers Creation of Mankind.   And thus when the Engineers or whoever, discover that this DAVID has taken the Engineers work connected to LV-223 and EVOLVED it to Create his XENOMORPHS these beings could be very INTERESTED in what David has ACHIEVED and so following a Creation Theme and Genetic Engineering, the Engineers or Hierarchy could well see Davids Work as a Masterpeice and then attempt to EVOLVE it Further to their HUBRIS that leads to the Space Jockey Event.

THIS ^^^^ I feel has to be the route to take, it keeps Davids Role as important, but it also means without the Engineers Experiments on LV-223 then David would never had created his Xenomorph, and it then allows us to be shown the Engineers then Evolve and Perfect Davids Creation, thus meaning all David had done was the Middle Part....  The Deacon DNA, that David turned to his Xenomorph, then gets Evolved by the Engineers or Hierarchy to become the 1979 Xenomorph.

Impressive, I like the picture of the Xeno that looks like it has a fish inside its head (third from the bottom). The Engineer head that looks like it has a snake coming out of its eye looks awesome. Sure it looks good but I wonder if it would have been a good movie or if it still would have had a lot of the problems that Prometheus has.

This might have been better since Alien Covenant was a robot movie with mostly disappointing characters. I wonder if these are official pictures or some fan made things.

Yes it is strange that they only seemed to have one city at the planet. Wouldn't they have had more than that since I guess that there were more Engineers there than what we saw in the movie.

Barf The Mog:

" ... the concept artists for Covenant could have undoubtedly written and directed the movie, and it would have been a masterpiece... they need to tell Ridley Scott to STFU."

I am not too sure about that, just because you are good with graphics doesn't mean that you are a good writer so these are two different things but I see what you mean. He should have nothing to do with the story. Scott is good with the visuals but it goes to crap when he is trying to affect the story so we get disastrous things like David creating the Xeno which I really hope won't be the thing in the end. David has a big enough role the way it is and that is lame. Yes they should tell him that storytelling isn't his thing so he has got to show some humility. Just because he is good with visuals doesn't mean that he is someone that shall have a hand in everything.

Lady Anne: LOL! Yeah the discussions between David and Walter about Byron and whatever became really slow. I liked to see the differences between these two but it became boring towards the end of the conversation. I do not watch alien movies to see two androids discuss what ever even though it was interesting to see what made them different from each-other.

“This mishmash of torrid crap...”

LMAO! That is a hysterical way to put it, I am laughing at the way you said it but it is true. The direction that this is taking is really boring, it doesn't make me interested in another movie.

You implied that the movie was about the Xeno originally. I think that it was more about people finding something that they didn't understand and weren't prepared for so it was not about the monster really although it was an important part, it is about the themes that is how I look at it.

I am not interested in the David story, leave that to some spin-off but don't make alien about that. David is not the reason why I am watching alien related movies. To me he is just a part of the story, not what it is about or should be about.

Nah you didn't offend me at all, I agree with much of what you wrote (not everything) but I would probably have written my criticism in another way.

"What I believe has also happened regarding a AC sequel, is that certain aspects of production have been put on hold. This does not mean cancelled, it just means that whilst things could be temporarily up in the air..."

Canceled or not it seems like they are considering where to go after the disappointment that is AC. With all the reports about where they will go next it seems to me that they are at least thinking about it which is a good thing.

There is no need to rush anything especially with how disappointing Alien Covenant was so they got to improve it this time and that rarely happen when you rush things. I would rather get no movie than one that is like AC. No more robot movies, thank you very much.

Alien as PG-13? No thanks, also I am not very interested in a Blomkamp movie.

“The new movie need as totally different style, less whimsy with the characters, higher stakes, and specially less of David and more of the ole Alien vibe.”

At least I would prefer that to what Ridley suggested would happen. Another movie that would be even more focused on David than Alien Covenant is would be crap in my opinion. I would prefer if they keep as little as possible from Alien Covenant in the next one if there will be any.

"You have to look at it from FOX and Ridley Scotts POV..."

We already have seen that in two movies and they have been underwhelming. I am not interested in their visions, I want a good alien prequel with the monsters and the humans as the focus.

"AC was not set up to be a stand alone movie, it was done to set up a 2nd movie and then a 3rd one before we connect to ALIEN..."

If that is the case they failed because if you want to keep people interested you got to have interesting human characters to connect to and keep more focus on the alien. They totally screwed it up with those two things in Alien Covenant. What we have now is a movie with humans that are not well written and something that focuses on some robots, this is not very much what alien is about. LMAO (at how bad that is)! I will not pay again to see a movie like that, just no. Sure you can try something new but I am not sure of it is smart to keep it too far away from what was first established, something like that.

We got to know the characters better in some clips on the www compared to the movie itself, that is a totally wrong thing to do. Keep the character development in the movie not outside of it. Why did they do that? That was silly

Maybe Fox expected it to do better since it has Xenos in it but gladly it didn't. They do not seem to understand that you need more than interesting monsters to make it good. A movie about robots disguised as an alien movie is not worthy to get that much money. It is about the human experience but they totally misunderstood that with Alien Covenant.

A lot of times there is contradictory information about things like this so I am not sure where they stand at the moment. I am not interested in Alien 5 and I am pessimistic about the next prequel since they did not get Prometheus and AC right.

The dates of when things shall begin (shooting and what not) is not as important compared to getting a better movie. It should not be very difficult to get a movie that is better than Prometheus and AC since they still have not gotten the characters right. Being that AC turned out the way it did I guess that it is a good thing that they think things over. Unfortunately keeping in mind how the prequels have turned out this far, that does not make me very interested in another movie. Now, if Scott will make another movie about David then I will probably boycott it or at least see what people will say about it.

"… and consider things as they cant risk investing in another movie that does not do well.... i would assume the reception of Alien Covenant may have brought them back to the drawing board..." - Big Dave

Then make better human characters, concentrate on them, and keep the robots in the background or else don't make the movie at all. I do not want another robot movie, or one that gives the androids an important role or at least try to balance it.

"I would say the next movie has been Suspended at the time being..." - Big Dave

Maybe that is for the better, I don't want another Prometheus or Alien Covenant. Just his ideas about expanding the role of David is one reason for me not want to watch it.

Alien 5 is a movie that I do not really care about. Blomkamp can post as many pictures that he wants or what ever, I want to see something new but they got to get the human characters right. Unfortunately it would be a risk and could make Alien Resurrection look good.

"AC has not had great success because the beast is cooked!" - VINETICUM

I can only speak for myself but my reason why I didn't like the movie that much was because it has too weak characters and because it focuses on androids. My problem is not that the beast is cooked, it depends on how you handle it. Partially it could be that Scott does not know how to continue on with it, although it might be more to it than that.

"For people to like a story you need both a good hero (group of) and a villain." - red0guy

That was one of the problems with the movie, the only human that they got somewhat right was Oram, the rest were like "meh" in how they were as characters, they had no distinct personality traits.

I can not say that I am very excited for the next movie either being that Scott seems mostly into AI. The current direction that Scott is taking this is boring. Unfortunately we might get a movie that makes AR look good or even AVP (LOL!). Unfortunately I can not say that I have a lot of hope for this.