New Replies (Page 432)
I would like to know why its not appropriate to let your kids watch Alien films even though they are now technically Disney films....lol.
It was worth a try anyway
I am not sure he knows what to do anymore.
"But if the Engineers would be so interested in David, why did one of them pull his head off in disgust?"
This is a good point and its a very ambiguous scene, my point was in regards to maybe which ever beings either created us or gave the order to, and maybe who are above those Engineers, the Mural in Prometheus i always felt was to represent something they had became proud of and worshiped for some other reason than it being a GOD. I have a extensive theory on this, but part of it i had to wonder if those Engineers could not Procreate anymore then the encounter with/creation of something related to the Xenomorph that would then impregnate a Engineer and in affect allow them to give BIRTH to Life could be seen in high regard by those beings, and i think they experimented on the results and tried to Perfect it, and then Sacrificed it to produce the contents of the Black Goo Vases/Urns... If these Engineers saw the Mural as being something Perfect they either created or attempted to, then if they came across Davids Evolution of it, i would think they would be very impressed by it.
Going to the reasons for the Engineer ripping Davids head off, its something that is a bit open for debate, because at first the Engineer was very intrigued by David, once he learned he was not Flesh/Blood and a Creation of Man, the Engineer took pity on David but he no doubt was angered by Weyland and chose to use the head of Weylands Creation to destroy the Creator. The Engineer also no doubt realized that Mankind had created its own Life that was able to use the Engineer Technology and thus this Engineer would know that these AI Synthetics with Mankind could get their hands on and use Engineer Technology/Knowledge and secrets and he simply could not allow this to happen.
The Source i had from Feb 2015 had mentioned that the Engineers (i assume LV-223) are more in common with David than Mankind. A interesting thought... one i had a few times pondered but i always considered it in the way that the Engineers were a Creation of maybe a higher beings above them... Although i was open to them being Genetically Engineered and thus like Replicants it was something that i was 50/50 with because of other clues and Jon Spaights who had these Engineers as Creators.
However in Retrospect when looking at the Sources Comments, then looking at the Planet 4 Engineers in Alien Covenant and how Ridley Scott called them the ORIGINAL Engineers, what does this mean for those LV-223 Engineers? Could this be a hint that YES the LV-223 Engineers are a Genetically Engineered Superior Slave Race created by those Planet 4 Engineers, are the LV-223 Engineers thus to those Planet 4 Engineers as Replicants and Synthetics are to Mankind?
If this is the case, then indeed The Engineer and David are similar, and it would explain the Engineer taking Pity on David for a moment... Ridley Scott said the next movie will look at AI, but he also said that Rachael and Batty are also AI from Blade Runner (Nexus-7 and Nexus-6) i find it interesting he mentioned them as AI when talking about his AI plans for the sequel to Alien Covenant.... because Replicants are Genetically Engineered which means unlike David they are Psychically like a Human its only Emotionally where they are different, so you could cut open a dead Replicant and not tell it was not Human, but with Synthetics in Alien Universe you can tell a damaged one is not Human.
Thus the AI element may be more further than a MAD ROBOT David, I am sure Prometheus and Alien Covenant left some unanswered Questions regarding the Engineers, many fans was like WTF! when they saw those Planet 4 beings and would have liked to had explored and was expecting to see more about those Glossy Pale Superior beings in Prometheus... So maybe we will get to finds out more about these beings, and so who knows if we will get the reveal that the LV-223 Engineers are to the Engineers what the Nexus Replicants are to Mankind. Which would mean the Source i had was correct.
I am ridley scotts side here. the original 3 alien movies are in my opinion a perfect trilogy that should not be messed with. ressurection was sort of like a spin off branching of of that main centeral 3 movie tmeline. so are the prequels. this is how it should stay. 3 core movies with other movies branching of of them. sort of like starwars. the saga movies and then the spin offs( rouge one, han solo). if blomcamp replaces alien 3, it will seriously mess up a timeline that has bean well established and wil also considerably shrink the universe.(without alien 3 there is no dna reflex trait witch means all xenomorphs walk on 2 legs and look humanoid no matter what the host is) also, in defence of ridley scotts alien prequel: we honestly nead some sort of closure. there is 2 face huggers a mad android and 2000 sleeping colonists all headed tword the engineers homeworld. if people cant make a decent script with that, i really dont know what they would nead. we would also get to see more of the engineers and possibly engineer bred xenomroph, could also clear up the majot missconception that david created the xenomrohps to the genreal public and explain some of the things leading up to alien. there can still be some ambiguity but if the whole point of the prequels is to explain were the space jockey came from and it never dose that, then it makes prometheous and aline covenant irelivant and disconnected to the rest of the franchise.
And other 29% to other Fassbender roles.
lmao XD good one but in all seriousness i really want to know his haircut style in that scene. David is on the right in that picture btw. any info would be greatly appreciated!
Looks like David even had his crazy Ozzy bad haircut moment. I think the hairstyle is called "I was Fu$#ed up/crazy and decided this would be a great idea" haircut.
I can see Thoughts' point but I think the Giger touch really set it apart from everything else at the time. Over the decades, many others have "borrowed" from that style.
Giger's part was probably the most significant and most important part. Without art/set design, a director only has people to film, and Giger made Alien a work of art, more so than Ridley Scott.
@ Big Dave
“My other Concern is Miss Weaver, as it appears Blomkamps Alien 5 did not directly replace Alien 3 at all, and there was NO Ripley... until he discussed it with Miss Weaver.”
In the link I have provided (Timeline 23:47) Blomkamp confirms what you have said.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YpX6MumIr8
I just wonder who really would be in the driving seat of an Alien V movie, and I wonder if Neill was coerced into sharing “his” so called vision with pressure from Weaver.
Personally I think there has been something severely overlooked. Alien and Aliens have been the most successful movies of the franchise because of they shared a common element. They both had cats. Put a cat into the background story and that will alter everything.
@thought_dreams True, his visuals are beautiful.
I also thought it was good. that is why i am asking it almost looks like it lacks gel, like its dry yet stays up the way it does. any info would be greatly appreciated. lol love the shears pun tho.
Easy, take a pair of shears and clip away. In all seriousness, I thought it was a nice looking cut.
*I moved this to the Alien:Covenant forums for you. :D
I would not mind some Giger influences in the next movie. At the same time we got to remember that the success of Alien was because of many different parts, the Giger aesthetics was just one part of what made Alien great.
Zogar:
"If Scott is asked to direct, he will have to play ball and realize that he isn't running the show or making the big decisions. He should not be allowed screw with the script and realize he is telling a section of the Alien story not the entire thing."
This, I think that Scott is good at the visuals and to build landscapes but he seems to be crappy at writing stories. There was a podcast at either AVP-galaxy or at the Perfect organism podcast where they said that Scott is not a writer but more of a visualist, I think that fits well in the description. It seems that when he is trying to interfere with the writing we get dumb ideas like David being responsible for the Xeno. Nope, let him direct but keep him far from anything that has got to do with the script otherwise we will get another movie that is 70% dedicated to David (yuck!).
BigDave I have always supported the Amanda Ripley/Isolation route since it has a very strong story and has a legitimate reason to exist. I had not considered your idea of Weaver actually playing as Amanda- Genius idea!!
David interesting idea. But if the Engineers would be so interested in David, why did one of them pull his head off in disgust?
Gods I hope so. That video was awesome. Giger is the Alien franchise end of story.
I agree that Disney will follow the money and invest in Alien 5. They did it with Star Wars as The Force awakens follows that same beats as A New Hope and has most of the original cast. So it looks like they will take on Blomkamp's ideas. To bring the Aliens cast back, they could go the route of some organisation (possibly those that know what happened on the Origa 6, if Daniels or someone else escaped) boarding the Sulaco and replacing Ripley, Hicks and Newt with exact copies (perfect clones) created from engineer technology (they have stolen). The story could continue then about 30 years later in another part of the galaxy where this organisation are tracking anything alien or engineer related and preventing any outbreaks that could be caused by Weyland Yutani's meddling.
I think it would be good to use the engineer technology further as it could be a good plot device to further the story. It seems that the whole Alien universe is a battle between AI and humanity. There is an android in every movie that has sinister motives in most of them. It also looks like Weyland Yutani is run by AI, possibly David's code or undetectable virus and is using the companies greed as a catalyst to destroy humanity. The aliens are AI's saviour as the perfect organism.
I think the universe needs to be expanded with bigger players and the prequels should be used to set these players up. We need to see the humans that know the sinister truth and have stolen engineer technology to fight back, the engineers that are seeking out David to destroy him and like you said BigDave to carry out the last step in perfecting the Alien.
Again I suspect Disney will go with nostalgia to make the franchise profitable again. Newt will carry the torch on from Ripley. If this is successful Disney will go ahead with completing the prequels to link to Alien 1979. If Scott is asked to direct, he will have to play ball and realize that he isn't running the show or making the big decisions. He should not be allowed screw with the script and realize he is telling a section of the Alien story not the entire thing. That's what made the Marvel universe so successful, different directors telling each story to add to the whole. If he doesn't just direct he could be fired just like what we have learned from the Han Solo movie, Disney don't take any shit and don't bend to egos. Scott needs to learn that the Alien universe is bigger than him, he needs to keep his ego in check and let others play in the sandbox.
Resident Evil: The Fassbender chronicles live ! Yes it is Paul WS Anderson joke.
Big Dave:
I only consider movies to be canon, everything else is fiction. As far as what happened I think that it is alright to keep Prometheus and Alien 3 as cannon. Prometheus was alright and Alien 3 was a good way to close the Ripley story. By the way if they take A3 out of the official time-line I would be disappointed.
To me they could erase the whole Alien Covenant thing and write another movie that would follow what happened after Prometheus. AC is a disappointment so erasing that story would not be a problem to me.
Yup they reduced the prequels to be about David, that is a shame since there is so much else to explore in the franchise.
Having a story about the Engineers, their relation to the Xeno and that was alright it is just that they didn't do it right. Hopefully they can change this with the next movie but we will see. Making it the David story annoys me more than reducing the Engineers but to make it more about the Engineers you got to cut down the importance and screen-time of David because I feel that I have had enough of that at least is such a big portion that we have seen him this far. If Ridley likes the David character then fine for him but you also got to think about the audience and how they have responded this far.
Making the Derelict younger is not a big problem for me. Sure it is a small disappointment but my biggest dislike (except for the failed human characters) is that David is the creator of the Xeno. There is no way that it is a satisfying answer, the only reason for this mistake is the over the top interest that Scott has in Fassbender and David, I doubt that there is another explanation for it.
"But then they could CHANGE it so that we see David has simply Re-Created the Xenomorph and his Creation does not end up on the Derelict... OR they could have it that the Engineers or Some other Race connected, take DAVIDS Creation and EVOLVE it."
This, but that depends if they care about that fans or not. If they would make the Xeno a creation of David, it would almost feel as useless as the killing of Luke, not exactly that much but at least it would be a big disappointment. Killing Luke killed Star Wars and making David responsible for making the Xeno would ruin a lot of the alien franchise, that is what I am trying to say. Two franchises that are about to go down the toilet and there is not much time between them, I never thought that I would witness that.
The mural makes sense the way you put it but I wonder if they wold make any reference to it in the coming movie? I would like that in some way since it makes sense.
I would rather see this but I am afraid that Scott cares too much about David too much.
@Critters5
Yes Disney now own the Property of FOX including the Alien Franchise, its a case of would they Produce a Alien movie and are they in a Rush to do so? They could License it out to another company however.
At the moment it appears any Alien Movie will be on HOLD
I think if Disney do choose to follow through with a Alien movie be it a Alien Covenant Sequel, a Aliens Sequel, a Alien Resurrection Sequel or another Alien movie within any of the Time-Lines i do think Disney would certainly be in contact with the HR Giger Estate to bring more of that Atheistic back into the Franchise.
Indeed, i think this is the Problem we have had after Alien 3, the other movies dont use Characters well, they are just Plot Devices, Alien, Aliens and Alien 3 used the Xenomorph and Androids only as sub-plots and it was about the Characters more, they had more depth.
I totally agree we need to get back to this more....
It will be hard to avoid David in the next movie, its also hard to bring in Human Characters with how AC ended, the only ways Human Characters can be used, to any effect would be if we are shown Davids Experiments on the Covenant Crew Back Fire and a Section of the Ship becomes infested and is Quarantined
The Covenant then arrives near Origae-6 and another Section of the Ships Colonist are awoken, and go to explore the Ship and then Uncover the Quarantined area and the Xenomorphs get loose. This was one idea i had for how the movie can move on after seeing AC, a movie that would kind of be a Alien 3 in Space, well a Alien 3 meets Alien... Dark and Claustrophobic where some Survivors Escape to Origae-6 but then we can use this to tie in a 3rd movie... Funny enough the idea i had would be a Movie similar to Pandorum i had never heard of this movie when i had these ideas, it was months after when someone mentioned it on here that i managed to track it down and watch.
The only other TWO options to bring better use of Human Characters, would have to be a CHANGE of Heart on Davids Part, where he allows the Colony to be set up, maybe he has a hidden Agenda, but he allows them to set up a Colony but then something has to happen to allow the Xenomorph to be brought back, because these Prequels look like they WILL connect to ALIEN... for this Plot to work, we have to arrive at a time set years after the Colony is set up... we can have Flash Backs and Naration by David to events that happen prior between AC and the Next Movie, much like we had in AC, but the most of the movie has to be set Months, or Years after the Colony is set up... but then something happens that would allow for the Xenomorphs to go on the lose....
THIS ^^^ is the route by idea for the Sequel is taking..
The 3rd option to have good Characters, has to be ONE of the Above ideas to have taken place, but we By-Pass these events and arrive at the AFTERMATH where a incoming Human Ship arrives after either of those Plots has Passed by and discover the Horrors that Transpired.... this would be a bit ALIENS however.
Well maybe Scoot does not care about David that much, but about Fassbender, making the series into something akin to Resident Evil or Underworld, and that is even worse.
BigDave:
Well they portray it as being about David since he is getting most of the screen-time so people see it as being a story about David and then what does it matter about the themes if people see it as something else? If this is the case then I see it as bad writing since they have failed at delivering their idea or message. The Last Jedi is not good, I despise how they treated Luke, F that. You put it at the same level as TPM, I can totally see that because that is how I view it right now at least. I have not watched TPM for many years and I guess that the same will go for TLJ so that tells you a bit how I look at that.
"… and AI does not mean Robots and Machines, it could mean a Creation/Life that is not Naturally Created or Born."
If you would ask people what AI is I guess that they would reply with robots or machines so label it like AI is misleading maybe. It is still about David because at least that is how it comes off at the screen so I do not like that but I understand what you are trying to say.
Red0Guy:
I agree, I am not sure why they didn't expand on the ideas that the murals showed. They do not make a lot of sense if they decide that David created it. Maybe they should have left the Xeno as a mystery because they have not done a good job this far at explaining it. Yup, the way that AC comes of is that it is about a mad robot with a creator-complex which is totally boring then if the theme is creation and hierarchy matters less because that is not how it looks like on the screen.
"in Covenant, only the mad robot remained."
Yeah, I wish that they would have killed him so we would have gotten more of the human story.
RickT:
Maybe that is a good thing because Prometheus and AC are not that good even though I prefer Prometheus so I will not be sad if they make him reduce the role of David. An understanding of the story is what Scott does not have, he thinks that it is about robots but it is not. Alien 1 to 3 worked because of interesting human characters that we as an audience could identify with as far as understanding the fear that they faced when they got into those situations. One can discuss the various flaws that Alien 3 has but it is my favorite movie but even there there are characters that are interesting and that at least I can feel some sympathy for even though they have done very bad things. In Prometheus and AC there are every few interesting human characters that I care for so it does not mean a lot when they die.
My reason for bringing up the characters in Alien 1 to 3 is to show that Scott does not care that much about that compared to the robots but by doing so it makes me less interested in any other alien movie by him. Judging from the two prequels that we have gotten this far I think that it is a good thing that they put a leash on Scott so they hopefully will avoid to have his most boring ideas in it.
The trailer means less if the movie is not good. As far as I know the same thing went for Prometheus. Some parts of the movie was alright while some of it sucked. I liked the landscapes, I liked how they portrayed David and Walter and also Oram was alright. Most of the characters didn't add anything and also their personalities were thin as I don't know what.
Covenant is probably one of the worst movies among those that are alien connected. I watched it some times to give them some money so we would get a sequel but now when I look back at it it is without a doubt a movie that has a long way to go before it would be good. Nope, it is not a movie for me and well I think that I enjoyed Prometheus more because it had less of David and also David was better in that movie.
Do you mean this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svnAD0TApb8
"This did not mean the movie was on Hold, it would likely be a case of trying to look at why AC did not do as well as expected and consider if changes needed to be made with their plans, as surely FOX would not want to push ahead a Sequel that sets up a 3rd Alien Prequel that connects to Alien but then finds the sequel does not do well..."
It seems that the post went OT very fast. They have gotten the androids right this far, even Call was Alright.
Why AC did not do very well or more like why I did not enjoy it very much:
Mostly bad human characters
Too much focus on the robots
Too little about the Engineers
A hint that David created the Xeno, which is crap
They got to get the human characters right and I also want to see more of the Engineers and they got to get that right. Reduce the role of the robots because it is boring, Ridley might like it but I do not. Ash in Alien, Bishop (Aliens) and David in Prometheus were all alright but they made David worse in Alien Covenant. I liked the difference between David and Walter in AC but that lost some of its shine in Alien Covenant since they sacrificed (or to be blunt: did not give a shit about) the human characters and favored the robots.
The Engineers was a good idea but it was badly executed in Prometheus but please try to get that right because it could be interesting. Another thing is: how many prequels do they got to make until we get to the original movie? I am not sure that they want to do very many seeing how Prometheus and AC did. Maybe they will do two more at a maximum.
Good points Thoughts_Dreams i think the Problem we have is the Prequels have opened up more revenues to explore, and AC kind of close to the door on them a bit, Prior to the Prequels it was Ripley and Xenomorphs, the Companies Agenda also being a sub-plot, the AI being just a Character and not anything the Plots Revolved around much.
Some Fans disliked the Engineers ARC, some Fans dislike the David ARC, but some Fans also dislike the Camerons Bug Hunt and Queen, i think Disney have to look in Retrospect at what disappointed fans with Alien Covenant, and this is something thats not easy to ANSWER, some may feel the Engineers were brushed under the Carpet, some wanted to follow Shaw and the Philosophy, But some fans were Disappointed we did not see more of the Xenomorph, and still no REAL Answers to the Derelict... But i feel the Disappointment that seems to keep re-occurring more with a higher % of complaints is the CHANGE of Direction of the Space Jockey Event being something more RECENT but bigger than this is how the Xenomorph is now a MAD ROBOTS Creation.
They could still RUN with this IDEA and RS feels its Interesting.... But then they could CHANGE it so that we see David has simply Re-Created the Xenomorph and his Creation does not end up on the Derelict... OR they could have it that the Engineers or Some other Race connected, take DAVIDS Creation and EVOLVE it.
THIS ^^^^^ Fits more with the whole Engineers ARC, we are shown they are Genetic Gardeners, and what is the Purpose of this? We are shown the THEME of Creation, which applies to DAVID too, you see after Weylands Death, the Merger Between Weyland and Yutani have taken Weylands David and Evolved him into the WALTER models. So a good reason for Creation and Experimenting is EVOLVING and PERFECTING something.
Prometheus showed us the Engineers had been creating and experimenting with STUFF that links to the Xenomorph DNA, The Mural a sign of Worship of some Deacon/Xenomorph Organism.. Is it a GOD? I dont think so, i think its a SIGN of the Engineers Encountering and Evolving Something or Creating Something that they deemed to be PERFECT or hold in HIGH Regard... DAVID has taken the Genetic Makeup of what these Engineers HELD in such high Regard and Created something from it, Evolved Something From It... PERFECTED something from it.
So you could easily see the Reason for the Mural as far as the Engineers being something they worked to achieve and were PROUD of... so we can easily see if the Engineers (or Hierarchy) Discover that Mankind has not only Created its OWN Lifeform be it AI, but that Mankinds Creation in DAVID is more Perfect than the Engineers Creation of Mankind. And thus when the Engineers or whoever, discover that this DAVID has taken the Engineers work connected to LV-223 and EVOLVED it to Create his XENOMORPHS these beings could be very INTERESTED in what David has ACHIEVED and so following a Creation Theme and Genetic Engineering, the Engineers or Hierarchy could well see Davids Work as a Masterpeice and then attempt to EVOLVE it Further to their HUBRIS that leads to the Space Jockey Event.
THIS ^^^^ I feel has to be the route to take, it keeps Davids Role as important, but it also means without the Engineers Experiments on LV-223 then David would never had created his Xenomorph, and it then allows us to be shown the Engineers then Evolve and Perfect Davids Creation, thus meaning all David had done was the Middle Part.... The Deacon DNA, that David turned to his Xenomorph, then gets Evolved by the Engineers or Hierarchy to become the 1979 Xenomorph.
Impressive, I like the picture of the Xeno that looks like it has a fish inside its head (third from the bottom). The Engineer head that looks like it has a snake coming out of its eye looks awesome. Sure it looks good but I wonder if it would have been a good movie or if it still would have had a lot of the problems that Prometheus has.
This might have been better since Alien Covenant was a robot movie with mostly disappointing characters. I wonder if these are official pictures or some fan made things.
Yes it is strange that they only seemed to have one city at the planet. Wouldn't they have had more than that since I guess that there were more Engineers there than what we saw in the movie.
Barf The Mog:
" ... the concept artists for Covenant could have undoubtedly written and directed the movie, and it would have been a masterpiece... they need to tell Ridley Scott to STFU."
I am not too sure about that, just because you are good with graphics doesn't mean that you are a good writer so these are two different things but I see what you mean. He should have nothing to do with the story. Scott is good with the visuals but it goes to crap when he is trying to affect the story so we get disastrous things like David creating the Xeno which I really hope won't be the thing in the end. David has a big enough role the way it is and that is lame. Yes they should tell him that storytelling isn't his thing so he has got to show some humility. Just because he is good with visuals doesn't mean that he is someone that shall have a hand in everything.
Lady Anne: LOL! Yeah the discussions between David and Walter about Byron and whatever became really slow. I liked to see the differences between these two but it became boring towards the end of the conversation. I do not watch alien movies to see two androids discuss what ever even though it was interesting to see what made them different from each-other.
“This mishmash of torrid crap...”
LMAO! That is a hysterical way to put it, I am laughing at the way you said it but it is true. The direction that this is taking is really boring, it doesn't make me interested in another movie.
You implied that the movie was about the Xeno originally. I think that it was more about people finding something that they didn't understand and weren't prepared for so it was not about the monster really although it was an important part, it is about the themes that is how I look at it.
I am not interested in the David story, leave that to some spin-off but don't make alien about that. David is not the reason why I am watching alien related movies. To me he is just a part of the story, not what it is about or should be about.
Nah you didn't offend me at all, I agree with much of what you wrote (not everything) but I would probably have written my criticism in another way.
"What I believe has also happened regarding a AC sequel, is that certain aspects of production have been put on hold. This does not mean cancelled, it just means that whilst things could be temporarily up in the air..."
Canceled or not it seems like they are considering where to go after the disappointment that is AC. With all the reports about where they will go next it seems to me that they are at least thinking about it which is a good thing.
There is no need to rush anything especially with how disappointing Alien Covenant was so they got to improve it this time and that rarely happen when you rush things. I would rather get no movie than one that is like AC. No more robot movies, thank you very much.
Alien as PG-13? No thanks, also I am not very interested in a Blomkamp movie.
“The new movie need as totally different style, less whimsy with the characters, higher stakes, and specially less of David and more of the ole Alien vibe.”
At least I would prefer that to what Ridley suggested would happen. Another movie that would be even more focused on David than Alien Covenant is would be crap in my opinion. I would prefer if they keep as little as possible from Alien Covenant in the next one if there will be any.
"You have to look at it from FOX and Ridley Scotts POV..."
We already have seen that in two movies and they have been underwhelming. I am not interested in their visions, I want a good alien prequel with the monsters and the humans as the focus.
"AC was not set up to be a stand alone movie, it was done to set up a 2nd movie and then a 3rd one before we connect to ALIEN..."
If that is the case they failed because if you want to keep people interested you got to have interesting human characters to connect to and keep more focus on the alien. They totally screwed it up with those two things in Alien Covenant. What we have now is a movie with humans that are not well written and something that focuses on some robots, this is not very much what alien is about. LMAO (at how bad that is)! I will not pay again to see a movie like that, just no. Sure you can try something new but I am not sure of it is smart to keep it too far away from what was first established, something like that.
We got to know the characters better in some clips on the www compared to the movie itself, that is a totally wrong thing to do. Keep the character development in the movie not outside of it. Why did they do that? That was silly
Maybe Fox expected it to do better since it has Xenos in it but gladly it didn't. They do not seem to understand that you need more than interesting monsters to make it good. A movie about robots disguised as an alien movie is not worthy to get that much money. It is about the human experience but they totally misunderstood that with Alien Covenant.
A lot of times there is contradictory information about things like this so I am not sure where they stand at the moment. I am not interested in Alien 5 and I am pessimistic about the next prequel since they did not get Prometheus and AC right.
The dates of when things shall begin (shooting and what not) is not as important compared to getting a better movie. It should not be very difficult to get a movie that is better than Prometheus and AC since they still have not gotten the characters right. Being that AC turned out the way it did I guess that it is a good thing that they think things over. Unfortunately keeping in mind how the prequels have turned out this far, that does not make me very interested in another movie. Now, if Scott will make another movie about David then I will probably boycott it or at least see what people will say about it.
"… and consider things as they cant risk investing in another movie that does not do well.... i would assume the reception of Alien Covenant may have brought them back to the drawing board..." - Big Dave
Then make better human characters, concentrate on them, and keep the robots in the background or else don't make the movie at all. I do not want another robot movie, or one that gives the androids an important role or at least try to balance it.
"I would say the next movie has been Suspended at the time being..." - Big Dave
Maybe that is for the better, I don't want another Prometheus or Alien Covenant. Just his ideas about expanding the role of David is one reason for me not want to watch it.
Alien 5 is a movie that I do not really care about. Blomkamp can post as many pictures that he wants or what ever, I want to see something new but they got to get the human characters right. Unfortunately it would be a risk and could make Alien Resurrection look good.
"AC has not had great success because the beast is cooked!" - VINETICUM
I can only speak for myself but my reason why I didn't like the movie that much was because it has too weak characters and because it focuses on androids. My problem is not that the beast is cooked, it depends on how you handle it. Partially it could be that Scott does not know how to continue on with it, although it might be more to it than that.
"For people to like a story you need both a good hero (group of) and a villain." - red0guy
That was one of the problems with the movie, the only human that they got somewhat right was Oram, the rest were like "meh" in how they were as characters, they had no distinct personality traits.
I can not say that I am very excited for the next movie either being that Scott seems mostly into AI. The current direction that Scott is taking this is boring. Unfortunately we might get a movie that makes AR look good or even AVP (LOL!). Unfortunately I can not say that I have a lot of hope for this.
I would gladly take an alternative sequel to Prometheus, but that will never happen.
Big Dave:
Sure maybe some would like to see an expanded universe with the Alien that focuses on androids but leave it to those people. I am not interested and it is not what I watch alien movies for but a comic book or something would be fine, not my cup of tea though as they say. Let it be a part of the total story but I would refuse to have a movie being totally about AI or even 60% of it, I am simply not interested. All those alien movies that you mention, OK so they might be in the background but they were not about AI. They were never about Ash or Bishop let's say or even the Xeno, the focus was on the human element.
We find out that there are various types of Synthetics, even Synthetics Creating Synthetics and Wars/Conflicts between Synthetics...”
I have never thought about that and honestly I don't care. I realized the difference between Call, Ash, and Bishop though but still to me it was never about artificial intelligence/robots.
“In such a Future when Synthetic AI advanced and forms their own separate Cults, Factions and begin Sub-Creating you can only imagine the Horrors that follow, where we have a World of Terminator AI vs Matrix AI... fighting for control... Which does not Bold well for Mankind.”
That is an interesting idea but it is nothing that I think would be an interesting alien movie or something that I would watch. Leave that to the terminator movies and similar things because it fits better there.
“... indeed why RS felt AI was more Dangerous.”
Then let him do a movie about that, just don't use the alien franchise for it. I don't want to watch a movie like that in the alien universe.
“What many people dont realize with Prometheus is its the same kind of Philosophy.”
What ever might be the case but David was better in it and it also has Elba. Unfortunately most characters were bad.
“The story of Mankind Creating Androids or Replicants, who then want to be more than just AI, who see themselves as being treated as equal to Mankind, and then Superior and then latter Sub-creating themselves. THIS kind of Arc is something likely that did not start with Humans, we was likely not the First Sub-Creation, and so this could also go above and beyond even the Engineers, who knows how many Layers of Creation/Sub-Creation are above Mankind...“
OK, but I don't want that in an alien movie, that is not why I watch it.
“... nope the Franchise was showing us that David now wishes to Sub-Create...”
I am sure that it is interesting to some but I don't care. Shift the focus to something else, I am not interested in an AI story.
“A Fascinating Plot and one RS appears he wishes to look at....”
To some but don't use the alien universe for that, I watch it for the monsters and interesting human characters. I am less interested in the artificial intelligence kind of thing.
“… but fans think its going to a David One Man Show...”
This was almost what AC was and a reason why it was mostly boring. If they would not have liked it to be a AI show they should have had less focus on David and Walter and they should also have had better human characters.
“But for many the ALIEN Franchise is just about Queens, Eggs and Ripley.”
To me it is about people that get into situations that they are not prepared to handle mentally or as far as their weapons are concerned. It has never been about robots or even the Xeno if you ask me, this is why they got to think about the human characters first and the enemy second no matter if it is a robot or a Xeno related monster. Also this is why I don't freak out when there is no Ripley since it is bigger than her. Both AC and Prometheus had the wrong kind of priority if you ask me.
The humans need a more interesting enemy than David, he is cooked.
Gavin:
The fact that the Xeno was reduced in its role in AC was bad when you add the other flaws of it, but to me it is not the main problem with Alien Covenant. OK, so you say that it was one of the reasons but yeah. My main problem is that the human characters were weak and that there was too much focus on the robots (David and Walter) even though I think that Fassbender did a good job in portraying David and Walter. There was no balance really as far as how much time they spent on things and how they did that.
Sure, keep the Xeno and related monsters as the main enemy but keep the focus on well-made human characters that we can care for. We got to sympathize with them when they get scared and things go to shit. Unfortunately Oram was the only human that was fleshed out in Alien Covenant if you think about it. What did we get to know about the rest? Almost nothing as far as I know.
Ask yourself these simple questions. What were their character traits? Why did they agree to go on that mission? What were their goals/dreams? We never got to know about that except for in some Internet material, and that sucks.
I read some about Haubrich and that she got her breakthrough role in AC but what was so special about that? What did we learn about her as a character? Nothing as far as I know so if that role got her famous then I guess that there is not much that is required to become famous nowadays. Maybe she did her best with what she got but to me the character was not well written or well executed onscreen as with most of the characters unfortunatly.
"Scotts well-publicized feelings towards the Xenomorph are reason enough that he should not make another Alien movie."
Hmm, I guess so but who would direct it? I would not mind new monsters because that is what is one good part of the prequels this far but they don't treat the human characters very well, they are secondary to the robot thing. They should change the focus to well-made human characters not this robot garbage.
I agree to an extent that it was not an alien movie but it had Xeno connection so I consider it to be so even though it was maybe not a pure Xeno movie it at least tried to explore the origins of it. The Engineers look like the SJ to an extent so I have easier to accept them as being tied to the Xeno rather than having it being created by David.
I Moon Girl:
"If someone would make a movie to fuse Blade Runner and Alien franchises..."
Eh, no (LOL!) The closest that they have come to that is AC and much of that aspect to mix those two was totally boring.
"He just needs some confidence and success from a successful Alien movie..."
That will probably not happen as long as he is insisting on making them into movies about David and robots. I am not interested in watching a robot movie from Scott since that theme and how he handled it in AC did not make me more interested in it, to say the least.
I think Blomkamp is young and hungry, and it is a Dog Eats Dog World.... while he would have respect for Ridley Scott, Blomkamp's release of those Concepts are to Re-ignite his Alien 5 Project, he is a MASSIVE ALIENS Fan, and a HUGE Miss Weaver Fan. You can bet he is disappointed he could not have made his ALIEN 5 i think he knows there is a potential to make $$$$ from the Massive ALIENS Fanboys, and you cant blame him for wanting to Tease more of his Project now Disney OWN FOX and in hindsight of the Disappointment that Alien Covenant was.
The BIGGEST thing to look at now would be DISNEY, they are going to look at what they think its MARKETABLE and what can make some MONEY from Merchandise and Toys and so a more ALIEN Flick like Blomkamps idea would be more up their Street....
I think Disney would also think Blomkamp would be willing to change/add things that Disney would want, as Blomkamp would just be so GLAD to be given a Chance... so Disney could feel RS could be a bit more Stubborn to deal with. I think a DECIDING Factor could be WHEN/WHAT James Cameron has to say, if he came out in Support of Blomkamps Alien 5 and even said he would like to work with him on the Project, i think Disney would be more likely to BACK a Project by those TWO.
I WILL NOW... Look at some Options as far as a ALIEN movie where we could bring in Miss Weaver or Mr Biehn.
Is ALIEN Isolation Canon? This is a good thing to debate, but its a Game as so we cant take it as 100% Canon, but we need to remember that AMANDA RIPLEY does exist.... She had passed away while Ripley was Floating through Space for 50 years.
This is the Official Image we have as 100% Canon to what Amanda was supposed to look like, and she does look a lot like her MOTHER and so this means we could have a ALIEN movie set after ALIEN but prior to ALIENS where Miss Weaver could play Amanda and apply some make up etc to make her appear a bit different. They could give us a Plot set between 2137 when Alien Isolation had taken place, and 2177 when she had passed away. Amanda Ripley had passed away Aged 65
And so we could do a Movie that is a Sequel to ALIEN Isolation, where the Company Once again obtain a Xenomorph or even Obtain the Derelict and have Amanda become involved to try and Prevent the Company from Exploiting the Xenomorph... This could be set in the year 2157 and cover the set up of Hadleys Hope, as far as the Agenda behind it. Which means Miss Weaver would have to play someone in their mid 40's so this may not work... But then they could have it set in the year 2167 or up to 10 years latter
Where we could see a Plot that reveals the Sinister Agenda of the Company, would bring in a old Amanda Ripley, and either END or set up for a sequel with the Death of Amanda and Cover up the Company has made about the History of Amanda to Ripley. A movie that would also acknowledge the events of Alien Isolation.
The other alternative could be to not use Miss Weaver but bring back Michael Biehn as he would be cheaper, and bring some Nostalgia, and give him a Character of either being the Father of Hicks, the Brother of Hicks, or even the Son of Hicks... which ever you choose he would play a Late 50's or early 60's Man. Depending on what connection he has to Hicks, would give us the Time-Frame a Movie is set, and explore what role he could play, he could be a Scientist, a Pilot, or a Company Man, but something that would allow him to be connected to a Movie that would have a reason to involve Xenomorphs... maybe he wants to investigate what happened to Hicks etc.
I dont think doing any of these where we introduce Biehn and Weaver back in the same movie to both play Relations to Hicks and Ripley would work... but going with ONE of them could.. Then Blomkamps Alien 5 could work, i just think IF it is a bit of a HIT we would see sequels and sequels and then if this is a Sucsess, i FEAR Disney would then Re-Boot i.e offer a Alternative Prequel Universe, where down the line for masses of Fans Alien 3, Alien R, Prometheus and Alien Covenant SIMPLY never HAPPENED.
