Comments (Page 738)

*Watches trailers for saccharine French movies*

O_O k-killl...meee

(jk, jk. Sorry, Ati, I appreciate it but, way not my cup of tea. :P )

Aww, thanks Ati, you're sweet. But, I'm pretty sure pregnant ladies of old had to protect their young from lions and stuff - we didn't evolve to live a fear free life.

Plus, when I sleep I always have nightmares regardless. My subconscious will either contrive them out of the mundane or the outlandish.

I've always preferred the outlandish, because fantastical scenarios produce less anxiety than plausible ones, once I wake up. :)

That is a brilliant collection of concept art Ati!!!

I love the Razer Space Station by Maxim Revin.

I hope Ridley Scott does take that next step with the grandeur and scope of his designs. Prometheus and Covenant had some gorgeous visuals eg, Planet 4's ion storms, the covenant Solar Sail, David's bombardment of the engineers. But both films restricted themselves to a small snapshot of somewhat similar primordial planets.

Go super-massive Ridley!!

And trailers of good French movies you can relax with:

Heartbreaker:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WCVzEAa38c

Love Lasts Three Years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K_vf1aP8OU

@Ati

O_O *runs in fear*

I'm pretty sure I would DIE of BOREDOM! lol.

Hey, but what about some good Swiss art movies?

               ...H.R. Giger counts, no?

You need some light moments now, it's just for you from Sweden:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jSrBdN4b5c

ViviEn - It's time to watch some good French art movies... :)

mild man-flu symptoms really ;p  hahaha

They guy that played the engineer screaming is a member on here. He said they were told to scream "run" to capture their face expressions.

Elizabeth Shaw wanted to go where they came from, not where she came from. So David obliged her wish.

Thanks for the replies. I understand now. Is just that both planet 4 and moon lv-223 look alike. Both have storms, communication interference problems... etc....

But why David didn't take that half ring ship and traveled to earth and released the alien spore?

The other civilized alien would be the Predator? lol

@cuponator3000
Retconning Alien v Predator and Requiem is a different story. I haven't watched them yet, and I plan to, but I don't consider them a part of the main storyline. More like Freddy vs. Jason. What-if fan films.

I agree with your sentiment on the 4 original Alien films, they should just be there lol Each film has added a different layer to the Alien mythos and it would be a shame to see it devolve. Which is why I like Covenant so much, it embraces that mythos.

I'd be fine with a story set around Aliens or something in that fashion but don't retcon and let Ridley finish his story.

@Facehuggers!

lol

Wow, these are great concepts and some are according to me way more impressive than what i saw in the movie. I find that the Neomorph in the movie as a desing too simple and besides its sheer agressivety and its very efficient spreading method, not very interesting. My favorite design is the insectoid with legs. I am tired of too humanoid like monster design !

Well, as to whether or not the project is dead or not? My best guess is that it basically is. I think the holding onto his ideas by the studio, will amount to a completely different film. A few years after Ridley's films have been completed, I think that there will be inveitable Alien films. 

They may be holding onto the script and what not (that Blompkamp wrote) for any good ideas, or to just keep everything in house. I think Alien still has too much potential to be shelved, even after the mixed reviews/mediocre box-office performance of Ridley's Prometheus series. I like the idea that Blomkamp had a completely different Alien film, rather than a sequel to Aliens. A spinoff, I guess.

Unless someone picks up after Resurrection in the next, like, 5-10 years, then Ripley's story can't be finished on screen (imo). Otherwise, to continue in that storyline, it would have to be another batch of new characters (which I wouldn't mind at all, I would love it, but I am just saying, Ripley's story is tough to finish at this point.)

This all comes down to me being one of the people that don't support the retconning of Alien 3 and Resurrection. As a fan of both films and it just doesn't make sense to just will those two movies away. I think it is different than the retconning of Alien v. Predator (and Requiem). So, I am a bit of a hypocrite here, but the 4 Alien films are, like, they should ALWAYS be there, you know? 

I think that David is stupid and flawed. He think that he is immortal but immortal just mean than he doesn't age and/or can't get ill not that he can't be destroyed. The Engineers have very long life and are perhaps even immortal. The fact that they can be destroyed or killed doesn't mean that they are not immortal. They just are not Eternal.

If he is so superior what does he need their tech to wipe out the beings on Planet 4 ? He should have built his own technology, his own ship more advanced than the Juggernaut and use it to wipe out both humans and Engineers.

If he is so superior what does he need Black goo to create or more likely stimulate the appareance of new species ? He should have created new species from raw inorganic material to prove that he is truly a god.

Moreover his definition of perfection is flawed to say the least. In the great order of things, humans are more perfect than xenomorph and are clearly superior to them as they are sentient with the ability to create things. The Xenomorph, moreover as a creation from David, are mere killing machines with nothing essential to bring in the great order of things. However it will be a pleasure to see them do something very useful by turning against their flawed creator and wipe him out.

Back pain.

I REALLY hope they don't make Neil's Aliens 2. The fact it disregards 3 and Resurrection, despite how you feel about those chapters, is not cool. You don't just retcon other peoples movies. Plus it makes the franchise look weak, like hey we'll just retcon what doesn't do well and make the narrative more convoluted then it needs to be. I know some people were disappointed with Covenant but it was a great film that united all the previous films thematically and I want to see more of that right now than Neil's Hicks and Newt fanfic. But with humanity the way it is now, I've lost faith and we'll probably get it anyway :/ Cuz easy money instead of artistic integrity right?

BigDave - Amazing post !!

I often wondered why we often forget about this part of the mythos because it was heavily hinted at in "Prometheus"

The:"Where do we go to when we die?","Paradise","Heaven" convo between Shaw and her Father. It just is not brought up enough for me. There has to be more meaning to this otherwise it would not of made it past the edit. Every piece of dialogue in Prometheus was put there for a reason, good or bad.

I agree that there is a good possibility that the Beings on Planet 4 were there for a special reason and it seemed unlike any Colonised world that they ALL live in one city together. United. Possibly all believers who were sent there AD. 

The dialogue from "The Elders" before the sacrificial scene is critical.

Im not sure if the sacrificial scene in Prometheus is the same as Planet 4 - I think that could be where Planet 4 differs and also why it was not on any long range scans.

"The Gods" have the technology to hide "Paradise" to ensure its safety. So imagine if this is Paradise and not just another planet that was seeded with life like the start of Prometheus.

What if it is Paradise or Heaven and those who inhabited were the ones the Gods thought worthy and given this afterlife.

Then surely there will be severe punishment for the one responsible for destroying their heaven. It contained all of those worthy and destroyed the promise of eternal life. All of that work over countless thousands of years is now destroyed by a CREATION of the human race, who were also deemed not worthy.

They could be some trouble ahead for David?

Lol! So he was a disc-jockey rather than a space-jockey all along!

Clever post, very fun!

I also concur with Dark Nebula with his assessment of the Engineers and their classes. The ones on Planet 4 are more civilian while the ones we saw on LV-223 are warriors.

"Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair."

I'm glad to see some female Engineers, I feel my hypothesis on the Engineer's creating Deacons through the black goo/pathogen/xenovirus is becoming more plausible since they have female eggs in which to make facehuggers/trilobites. Also, like David explained in an earlier post of mine http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/45855 , the radius in which the goo is dropped I feel is inconsequential as I feel, like BigDave said, starts to spread and infect wider areas through initial contact, botanical infection, and perhaps Deacons.

Im interested if the deleted scenes contain some background what David learned about the Engineers while the Juggernaut was approaching Planet 4.

This would explain the motives why he bombarded the giant city and dont helped Dr.Shaw to get her answers about human origins/etc.

Ledward also had blood streaming from his eye, like a tear!

It's described in the book, and it's also included in the movie but you have to look closely because it's very brief and the camera is on Karine with Ledward in the background and only partially in the shot.

After looking at that scenes i hope this happens to David again:

Well spoken you guys! Engineers make us and a super weapon of amazing power. Like is our biggest hydrogen bomb more dangerous, I don't think so but our whole arsenal could destroy a planet. We also create David but I just don't see him as that dangerous because a good m40 pulse rifle would annihilate him. But he is on the loose so I can see some parallels with either bad angels/biosuit military engees. I definitely would like a follow up I just have no faith in Ridley to tell a decent story with believable characters. Give somebody else a try, jesus

Some interesting Concepts here.... 

Seems they had some alternative designs for Dr Shaws Corpse.

@Gralen  Indeed ;)

I made this reply in another thread. I think it can add up to what we was being shown.

PARADISE for the most part is a Special Place reserved for only the Loyal/Chosen and Deserved, many cultures its seen as the After-life,  where only those who Live a Certain way who keep to all of the GODS wishes and rules will eventually be allowed entry... In some Cultures its where only those who Die in Battle are allowed to enter, or those who Died in the name of GOD.

This Could apply ^^^ if we look at those beings on Paradise as Humanoid, and maybe a intermix of other Creations that came from the Engineers DNA... But unlike Humans on Earth these beings had kept to ways of the Engineers, they had not became Fallen and Against GOD like we on Earth had... And so they are not Forsaken/Abandoned like Mankind. They are instead allowed entrance to Paradise and then further Engineered or inter-breeded with to become more closer to the Engineers.

The other context for PARADISE is the Biblical one which Miltons Paradise Lost Poem is based on... In both of these.

PARADISE is NOT where GOD comes from.

PARADISE is NOT where the ANGELS come from.

PARADISE is WHERE the Garden of Eden is.

PARADISE is WHERE the Cradle of Civilization began.

PARADISE is WATCHED Over by Cherubim Angels.

If we look at Paradise in both these Contexts then i think it makes a bit more sense to what we are actually seeing.

"This is Alien, not Blade runner."

I agree its supposed to connect to Alien, but as RS started with Prometheus, he is exploring more Mythos and Creation Themes and so the Xenomorph is just a smaller piece of some jigsaw and so we do not know 100% what the importance of the Xenomorph will be in the Franchise.

It does seem to be along the lines of Creator, Creates, maybe Creates or interferes with something not supposed to, that leads to their downfall.  This will be a constant revolving theme....   And the Black Goo is what caused a Downfall of the Engineers on LV-223 and Mankinds Creation David, is what then uses this to bring about the Downfall of the Engineers on Paradise.  Eventually i think David and Engineers will become dead... and then its Mankinds Downfall for trying to use and obtain the Creation David had made from the Engineers Black Goo.

@chli

I think its a nice theory to consider the Engineers bringing and creating Eggs to that Place to then Sacrifice Humanoids to create the Xenomorph and Related Organisms... This is very much what HR Gigers Alien Mural was showing.

We have to ask why though?  As its a big risk to take a Egg to Paradise, especially depending how FOX/RS now explore how the Xenomorph Procreates... as David has TWO Face Huggers, and so if from a single Alien they can Procreate a lot, then having those Eggs on Paradise is a Risk, and we see little Protection or Safety Procedures on Paradise for such a thing.

Also i think its a long winded way to go about creating Life on Worlds over Millions of years just to be Hosts for Xenomorphs unless its revealed a Agenda by who ever created the Engineers calls for this...    I think creating a Xenomorph just as a Weapon is something thats fine on LV-223 but very risky on Paradise.

And those Engineers seemed to be in Good Shape before David Bombarded them, but David indicated the Egg was how he found it, and it was aggressive.  We have to wonder how did this Aggressive Organism remain Dormant until David discovered it, when it was contained within the Cathedral that Most of the Engineers where trying to get into after the Bombardment.

There seems to be no Mural or anything in the Engineers Architecture nothing to do with the Black Goo or Xenomorph, but only the Engineers and Humanoids.

These concepts are interesting...

I think now the Movie is out... a few Interviews with people who worked on the movie could be interesting, as they could not Spill any beans prior to the Movie release.

Wayne Haagg had done some of these concepts, he should know the reason for them, he also worked with people who had done a lot of the Engineer Writing we see in various scenes and concepts and THIS TIME those Engineer Writings have a Meaning and so again Wayne Haagg may have a lot of insight into some of those.

Planet 4 (Paradise) is an outpost.

It's obvious, judging that there was only one big town on the surface and no orbital structures.

Another thing is: These beings seem to live on a recreation planet considering which clothes they wear and that they manually grow crops for making bread,beer.

I mean this place would be the ideal location for meeting humans in a friendly way to share their history.

This planet is without a doubt in some kind a giant monastery where these beings live a traditional way, outside of their usual super-advanced-high-tech environment.

I bet when the Engineers come back and see their lovely planet contaminated on a global scale they will pull off their big machinery and some not yet-explored weird super-high-tech bio-engineered weaponary.

@Cerulean Blue

I think RS does see DAVID and AI as being Key Parts of the Franchise and it appears the Prequels will revolve around David.

@Thoughts_Dreams

I think while the Last Supper Prologue and even the Crossing would have added to understanding Characters more, a lot of stuff has to be cut down and out because of limitations to Run-time at the BOX Office...  FOX would feel only Die-Hard Alien Franchise and Prometheus Fans would sit through 3 hours of a Movie and all such Die Hard Fans $$$$ would not  bring them enough money in.  So sadly movies had to be cut and catered for trying to bring in the more casual fan and general public... Hence the Over-the-Top Marketing.  Which mislead many to think it would be a more ALIEN movie but then most of the Scenes that was never given away in the Trailers were all about David. These prequels are a DAVID Trilogy.

And so as far as the Xenomorph goes, its ambiguous to if he did or did not create it or re-created/improved it.  But it seems the route they are going now is that DAVID created the Xenomorph, at least the ones that are on the Derelict in Alien.

But its open at the moment, so if FOX/RS feel this route will disappoint fans they can change things for the next movie, because Alien Covenant came about due to Fan Reaction to Prometheus and how excited fans was for Blomkamps Alien 5

Indeed ali81  i conclude this too...

Added some explanations into this Topic Here

id agree to a certain extent about how stupid the 2 of them are. but tbh most humans in the same position would fall victim to stupidity. curiosity gets the better of milburn and yes he regretted his actions but if the hammerpede turned out not to be aggressive then hed go down in history. I think fifield was a decent character for the humour factor. but I feel he felt a bit over whelmed and useless at the end. no one knew what the mission was and im sure most very much doubted shaw and Holloway were going to be proven right. when they r proven right and the realisation hits home that wer not alone in the universe fifield gives up. hes no longer needed really as theres bigger interests than him n his rocks. I don't see him as that stupid as he is the one telling milburn to leave the hammerpede alone and spent the night trying to avoid anything and everything none human

The way i started to see it, and i made a Topic a while ago about FEMALES the Cause of Fall.

These Ancient beings had Evolved themselves over Millions of years or longer, they had cured nearly all diseases and illnesses they had managed to prevent their Organs for Aging and so their Race would live for Thousands, 10's Thousands maybe even Hundreds of Thousands of years...

Eventually this would mean they do not have to Procreate as Often to carry on their Genetic Seed.... so Eventually they lost the Ability to Procreate.   This is what Jon Spaights had in mind for this Race.

The Engineer Sacrifice scene we have yet to see the Full Version, the Sacrificial Engineer had Dialog but this has never ever been released... only one Line from the Elder Engineer has been released.

"Let your body become the dirt. Your blood become the waters. And may your soul become their way back to us"

so the Sacrificial Scene was Immortant to this Race... we have to remember a Race who can evolve themselves to never suffer the diseases and problems Mankind Face where our Bodies Get old and Fail, if a Race could slow down the Aging Process by like 100 X or more and Cure most Diseases etc then while they may then loose the need to Procreate.. they would still not be IMMORTAL Eventually they would Die, Naturally but also Un-Natural Causes can kill them.

So i think the Sacrificial Scene took place on Paradise, this World is the one at the start of Prometheus, its showing us the Re-start of the creation that leads to Humanoid Life.

The Reason?  Maybe this is the only way they can think of eventually bringing back a way to Procreate (Females) 

The Engineer in Prometheus seemed interested in Dr Shaw (especially the full cut) and this whole interest in Females would fit in with many Mythos about GOD's and certainly fits with Genesis 6:4

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them

Then i found it very interesting when these Concepts came out which clearly hold FEMALES Important as they are depicted on the Doors to the Cathedral Dome.

some of the beings in these images look more Human though, they have Hair/Beards etc.

So who knows if Engineers where indeed Early Mankind who had Evolved themselves to be less and less Human, but eventually lead to them being unable to Procreate and so the only way was to Re-start again... by using their DNA to Seed Worlds.

Looks like all the posts in this thread from late June have been deleted.

I know if has been said on this forum many times, but Fifield and Milburn were written as dumb characters. They were supposed to be idiots. They were that way in Lindelof's script re-writes and were even dumber in Spaith's script. They were there for a bit of light comedy, then to die horribly.

Yes, the actor doing Fifield's part was groaningly overacting, and there were a few cut lines and scenes in both scripts that explained things like them getting lost (they forgot the map reader) and petting the snake (the worm discovery scene). Those would have been nice to have, but it would not change the fact that they were supposed to be idiots who fumbled around.

The Prometheus expedition was classified and nearly all of the crew were hired at high pay, without knowing what the job was. They were not all supposed to be the best-of-the-best, and were clearly all disposable as far as Weyland was concerned.

______________

My only issue with the Alien Covenant characters was the two that wandered off alone on a dangerous planet for inexplicable reasons. I had far more problem with the band of idiots in Aliens than anyone in Prometheus or Covenant.

Indeed Sherris this is a theory that i come to as well ;)

The Hall of Heads Engineers look more like Elders and they appear to be of different Ages some looking older than others.

We have to look at what purpose was the creation of Mankind, but this is a huge Topic in itself....  I think Paradise is just that....

It depends how we then view Paradise.. what is Paradise?

PARADISE for the most part is a Special Place reserved for only the Loyal/Chosen and Deserved, many cultures its seen as the After-life,  where only those who Live a Certain way who keep to all of the GODS wishes and rules will eventually be allowed entry... In some Cultures its where only those who Die in Battle are allowed to enter, or those who Died in the name of GOD.

This Could apply ^^^ if we look at those beings on Paradise as Humanoid, and maybe a intermix of other Creations that came from the Engineers DNA... But unlike Humans on Earth these beings had kept to ways of the Engineers, they had not became Fallen and Against GOD like we on Earth had... And so they are not Forsaken/Abandoned like Mankind. They are instead allowed entrance to Paradise and then further Engineered or inter-breeded with to become more closer to the Engineers.

The other context for PARADISE is the Biblical one which Miltons Paradise Lost Poem is based on... In both of these.

PARADISE is NOT where GOD comes from.

PARADISE is NOT where the ANGELS come from.

PARADISE is WHERE the Garden of Eden is.

PARADISE is WHERE the Cradle of Civilization began.

PARADISE is WATCHED Over by Cherubim Angels.

If we look at Paradise in both these Contexts then i think it makes a bit more sense to what we are actually seeing.

I also agree the Engineers are not gone... well their Hierarchy is certainly not gone.

Paradise is just a world important to them as far as Humanoid Genetic Crop goes, the Engineers Technology shows us they have like Sat Navs that show other Galaxies and so traveling beyond our Galaxy must be within their Power....  and so some 2 years to LV-223 and some 7-9 years to Paradise means the TWO places we see Engineers in the Prequels are within a close Radius to Earth... which is maybe a bit of a Coincidence for a Race who can travel across Galaxies where the distances to Paradise and LV-223 are well like Inches to us then.

Ridley Scott also confirmed that Earth is not the only place these beings have created life, so there are many Worlds they have seeded and evolved life upon.

And so i think the Engineers or some race related to them would surely not have Paradise as their Home-world.

There are multiple reasons at play....

But first of all the Planets/Worlds are different, Prometheus takes place on a Moon LV-223 where the Engineers had set up some kind of Outpost that at some point in time they had used to experiment on and create the Black Goo.  Most of these Engineers had died from a Outbreak about 2000 years ago... We dont know 100% if any escaped and left the surface at this time or not.

The Engineer in Prometheus at some point (likely deleted scenes) had informed David that he (Engineer) did not come from this place (LV-223) but a place we would call Paradise.  Dr Shaw wanted David to take her to where the Engineer told him he was from... and so we have to assume the Planet in Alien: Covenant is Paradise and is where the Engineers had come from... but when we say come from, it could be as much as a African American saying he comes from the USA or a European American.... when actually African Americans originated from Africa and others from Europe.  

So the Engineers may not originate from that Planet in Alien Covenant.

As far as Davids reasons..... he was created by Mankind, by Peter Weyland and created to be a Tool to serve his creator, his creation is what his creator had thought makes him (Weyland) like a GOD... Yet David sees that he is superior to Mankind in every way... apart from he does not have a Soul, while Mankind can create Androids in their own image, they are not GODs because Mankind are Mortal... yet David is somewhat Immortal.

David then discovers Mankinds creators in Prometheus and he sees that they are too, flawed and Mortal and so David does not see them as superior... they are only superior by virtue of the Advancements and Technology.

David has contempt for Mankind, especially how he felt treated by Humans and seen as just a Robot... when David is more advanced than Humans and he has started to get more Human Emotions and does not see himself as a Tool, a Servant for Mankind... with Weyland Dead... David is free.

From his upbringing he has noticed how Weyland sees himself as some kind of GOD because he created David, and David sees these Engineers was worshiped as Gods because they created Mankind... yet all of those Humanoids are Mortal and David would see himself as superior.

So David has got himself a Godlike Complex, he is interesting in what made these Engineers to Godlike... their Technology, and David knows that with their Technology he could become his own GOD.

So arriving a Planet of these Engineers, and knowing how they viewed Mankind and how he was treated too, David could not risk going down and welcoming those beings.. there is a chance they could see him as a threat and disable him again.

For David it is not important about meeting these beings, he already knows a bit about them, and he knows if he KILLED them off then they would pose no a THREAT to his existence and Dr Shaw (who David Loved).   David knew that if those Engineers/Beings was killed off that David could then go down and be able to gather information on their Technology, Culture as he from the ruins of the Bombardment David could still read all their Information they had.  Maybe he could get Shaw some Answers this way.

BUT ULTIMATELY

David views himself as Superior to Humanoids, both Mankind and Engineers and he sees them as a failed species, flawed, and imperfect and David has seen how the Engineers treat their creations with no care and how Mankind likewise does with its creations and so David does not see how they have a right to Survive.

David seeing himself as Superior he wishes to leave his own Legacy, he views himself more than a Robot and Tool but as his own individual Person... and so he wants to Survive and then become more powerful....  And the Engineers Technology would allow this... but those Engineers could pose a threat to Davids Agenda and how he wishes to LIVE and not end up in TWO Parts again.

so he chose to take them out for these reasons.

Thats how i interpret it all.

I think IRaptus gives a good summary of symptoms

The Motes seem to enter the blood stream where what happens next is a bit uncertain i would assume while they may effect the Host and cause symptoms as IRaptus had explained, i would assume those Motes (well most) all gather together and start to bond to form the basis for the Organism, these Parasitic Building Blocks if you would... would then start to take on board the Hosts DNA so that these Motes combine and use the Hosts DNA to create a Organism that rabidly grows and then this Organism breaks out of the nearest part of the body to where the Organism had started to grow.

I assume this because i wonder why if these Motes contain a number of them and they invade and enter the Blood Stream then why was only One Organism the result, when some Parasitic infections like types of Worms passed on via Mosquitoes infect someone, the person ends up with more than One Worm growing inside of them. 

But maybe the Extras for Alien Covenant and Documentaries will give a more clear answer to the effects of the Spores.