Comments (Page 92)

My TWO CENTS on the Prequels....

What we have to look at is the ALIEN Franchise was about the XENOMORPH you could not have said had a Sequel to ALIEN R that had No Xenomorphs or had NOTHING you could relate to it with.  You then also had RIPLEY and she was the Continuation, the Anchor Point/Proxy for us, the Character that we EXPERIENCE the Horrors through her Experiences.

There were Under-layers such as Company Agenda, Androids etc.  But it seems they RAN OUT of ideas as to HOW to Continue with the Franchise if you dont have Ripley and Xenomorphs (we in the same Boat Now).

And so the PREQUEL route was the Option and when you are doing a Prequel you are going to be EXPECTED to get Answers to the Xenomorph and LV-426.

But the other PART of the Mystery was the SPACE JOCKEY as to WHO WAS HE? and WHERE WAS HE GOING? and WHY did he have that Cargo... these in addition to HOW/WHERE the Xenomorphs came from are WHAT the Basis of the Prequels were.

During the Production of the Prequels they had Expanded a Plot/Background to the SPACE JOCKEY that could OPEN UP the Franchise to a Expanded Universe, and we got to a POINT when they was like "you know what that Engineers, Creation Plot and Connection to Ancient Mankinds Origins is a Interesting Plot" It was like ONCE you showed the Xenomorph and Origins and then WHERE do you go NEXT!  More Xenomorph Movies?

And so they felt the other PLOT Points are where you could GO NEXT and then it was like "actually we dont have to give the Answers to LV-426 and the Xenomorph we could KEEP them a Mystery"  The Problem was the Clues to WHAT happened on LV-426 and WHY was toned down too much and the Xenomorph did not get a Satisfactory Replacement! with Mutant Fifield doing MOST the Killing in ONE ATTACK and then the Angry Engineer in another Single Attacking Spree.

And so to CONTINUE with a Sequel that would NOT give those Answers and STEER AWAY from ALIEN and Explore more about WHO those Engineers are and WHY they Create Life and then WHY they would Destroy is, well US with Dr Shaw wanting to get those Answers... we also had the Creation/Rebellion Hierarchy which David was the Last Branch of.

After Years of NOT being able to come up with a Story, and FEELING that maybe such a STORY would NOT get a Interest, they FELT that maybe you NEED to give those Answers and to them bring back the Xenomorph and get us to LV-426.

And so the Xenomorph and LV-426 was Brushed Aside with Prometheus while it went to SET-UP another Avenue... and that Avenue was Brushed Aside to actually get us to the Xenomorph and LV-426.... but they FELT that David was the Central Character to  the Prometheus Theme and so the EMPHASIS was still on him.... and the Xenomorph would be BROUGHT BACK... but to CONNECT those TWO... in which they did so with having HIM become the Creator.

But so much more about what else the Engineers had Created, other Horrors, other Worlds and Dr Shaw getting those Answers were all THROWN OUT!

What we got was a Wasted Potential of a Prometheus 2 where a Prometheus 2 may NOT have Pleased those who wanted XENOMORPHS and the Answers (LV-426).... to NOW giving those GUYS the Answers (Path to LV-426) but in a way that makes the Xenomorphs Creation NOT be that Special and the EMPHASIS on that Robot David which well is something that does-not PLEASE many.

"Unless they can show me why it was necessary? "

They decided to go and give us the ORIGINS and to make it FIT with the Theme at Play about Sub-Creation that can become Sentient, feel Superior to their Creator and NOT happy with their ROLE.  with David he had FELT he was Superior to Mankind and the Engineers and he wanted to see what he could CREATE and so they felt LETS MAKE it that David is the Creator...

They could have had him Create something SIMILAR and it still would have FITTED the THEME/PLOT.... but then some Fans be like so where are the Xenomorphs and WHAT HAPPENED on LV-426 so you would have to give the Xenomorphs the LIGHT again and so they thought LETS MAKE it that David was the Creator (it seemed the Earlier Drafts that WOULD-NOT connect to LV-426 and give us the Xenomorph we would have seen David go and Create a NEW kind of Monster).  But this was Changed so that we could FIT the Xenomorph and eventually HOW it got on the Derelict into the Prequels. (while still having David as the Focus).

WHAT A MISTAKE!

"I felt no connection to the main characters"

This has been a Problem since Alien Resurrection really.... if say you have ONLY seen AR (so you never saw ALIEN, ALIENS and ALIEN 3) then the ONLY Character who stood out was CALL....

I think its NOT quite how many you have, but you have to have 3-4 Main Characters who you can Really Connect with..... taking away the ROBOTS.  Then with AR, P and AC we never had any Characters who stood out, Certainly as far as Survivors....  it was WORSE with AC as for me only Karine, Faris and Oram stood out.... then that was NOT too Well, Daniels and Tennessee you just had NO CARE for..... they was more like Milburn, Ford and Ravel/Chance from Prometheus than any Main Characters. And so  Alien Covenant lacked its Dr Shaw, Janek and Vickers.

"The black goo that David drops from Juggernaut looked more effective and faster than the Aliens as bio-mechanical weapon anyway"

Absolutely ;) I have said a Number of times the Xenommorph is NOT really a Great Weapon, its more like a NUKE OPTION, well its Risky and by NUKE i mean it seems a Weapon you can use to WIPE OUT a Enemy but its NOT a Good One if you want to Reclaim/Occupy that Land/World.

The Black Goo from LV-223 as seen in Prometheus would be likewise, turning a Civilization into Fifield Mutants that will each other, and other LIFE being turned into Aggressive Hybrids like the Hammerpedes and even if we get to Deacons or Similar would ALSO make the Weapon something thats NOT ideal if you want to either TAKE OVER/RECLAIM a Planet.

The Neomorph Spores also would be the same...

But YES what we saw happen to the Engineers where there Genetic Material became like Calcified into Mummies.... then YES as a Bio-Weapon that was QUICK and EFFECTIVE and then Weeks, Months latter you can WALK around the City/World and all that remains of the Target are like Statues of the Fallen.

If the Black Goo can be Programed to cause that EFFECT (what we saw with the Engineers on Planet 4) then YES thats all the Bio-Weapon you NEED ;)

Another Point is that Ridley Scotts says the Engineers are Creators and Space Gardeners and it seems the Bio-Weapon is ONLY something they USE to RESET/RECLAIM the Worlds they SEED and so the Effects in Alien Covenant (not Neomorph Spores) would be PERFECT!

And so in Context to above then the SACRIFICIAL GOO would also be a IDEAL FACTORY RESET, if you had URNS full of that Stuff and so say those Engineers would then just START to become DUST/PARTICLES like in Prometheus Opening Scene then THIS would also be PERFECT.

So the MOTIVE behind the Mural and DNA in the Urns on LV-223 and any attempts to YIELD a Xenomorph/Deacon like Horror must be BEYOND merely to KILL a Enemy and TAKE OVER/BACK their World.... something more Twisted is going on with the Minds of those who WISH to USE the Creation/Reset Tool in this way.

Culminating on April 26th, Alien Day devotees will rally for the fourth year in a row for 24 hours of worldwide fanfare. Fans eager to participate can share their own personal memories or recreations of their favorite moments for a chance to become part of the 40 Year

Kabosucash

I enjoy Alien:Covenant. 

I have two problems with it: 

1.) David creating the Xeno. I thought this was pointless......Unless they can show me why it was necessary? 

2.) I felt no connection to the main characters. Didn't care if they lived or died.

Prometheus was the same. Both are cool space monster movies....but....crazy weak on characterization.

Too many characters in A:C?  Should they have limited the cast to three or four?

Uggh. Was hoping it was Alien not Aliens themed. Would love to have a Nostromo themed pinball...Or better yet...A Space Jocky / Juggenaut one.

I like portions of Prometheus and parts of AC. I think I like them both about equally the same. AC has some very unique special effects that help tell the story. Stylistically AC has powerful scenes and definitely creates some great sci-fi suspension of disbelief.

Objectively on the other hand both movies for me have plots I just do not care for and so I agree with BigDave that to reveal the origins of the Alien was a mistake.

I would much rather have not known where the Alien came from. I would be just fine if only the Engineers had kept researching the Aliens as weapons of war.

The black goo that David drops from Juggernaut looked more effective and faster than the Aliens as bio-mechanical weapon anyway.

Obviously I want Scott to complete the films and wrap it all up if he can. Disney threw everything in the vault. It looks like there will never be another film. Not sure really what will happen. When Disney put everything away though that was not a good thing for the property as a whole.

Love looking back through this topic! Gonna work on populating it with even more fan art, I'm sure since 2017 there have been some new creations!

One more thing.................

Looking back at the Marketing which seemed to IMPLY the Xenomorph a LOT, and when we had the Poster (which we see in the TOPIC BANNER) I am sure that some would have Expected some Xenomorph action against the Engineers.

I think maybe we could see similar in Future (well maybe would have done before DISNEY take over) and i think looking at the Poster then THIS would be something i think that MOST the Fans would have liked to see.  I think the Poster for Alien Covenant was  BIT NAUGHTY.... it Certainly was FALSE Advertising on the Part of FOX

"Do you still hope Ridley Scott gets to conclude his Prometheus prequel series "

That would be GREAT but i am NOT sure we will get that NOW, i think mainly due to HOW the Plot has Written itself into a Corner. 

Looking at the SET-UP i think the Fans would be a bit Reluctant to go and Follow where David would GO NEXT.... but that DOES-NOT mean they have to go the Expected Route!

So we was told that the NEXT MOVIE would follow where David would be going, asking WHAT KIND of World would he Create?  The Plot would NOT be about Xenomorphs (does-not mean there would be NONE) and that there would be 3/4 Incoming Parties with ONE being the Engineers as they Return to Discover the Ruin left behind by DAVID and they will want to get the CULPRIT!

From this i think a LOT of Fans would be wanting to get to when the Engineers Turn Up and some other Humans and then let the Carnage Commence throw in the Xenomorph and i think THIS is what would appease the Fans in General (By-Pass what David is doing for the Most Part).

WELL.....................a Sequel can still FIX things a Little for those Fans who would NOT be interested in another David Movie!

If we look at the SET-UP we have David with the Covenant who will be Continuing with his Journey to Origae-6 which will take him 88 Months, it will be some TIME before his ADVENT Message reaches the Company and his LOG as Walter so the Company will KNOW that David is going to Oriage-6 and as the Ship was likely 11 Months on its way to Origae-6 before it diverted to Planet 4 and with the ADVENT Message likely to not be received for a bit then we can ASSUME that David would have a 2 Year or so Head Start over the Company.

NOW... we see that Planet 4 was within a YEAR from Earth, the Company would be AWARE of that Place and its LIKELY they would SEND a Mission to Planet 4 they would even Consider LV-223 i reckon.  (I was surprised they NEVER went back to Investigate the Disappearance of the Prometheus)

So going Forwards then YES i see the Company going to Origae-6 i ASSUME this may take them 8 Years, (Less with Ships Faster than the Covenant) but then with Planet 4 being like 7+ Years Closer i think the Company is BOUND to send a Mission to Planet 4.

We have the Neomorph Spores to Worry about but also that CAVE of Eggs!

We had Ridley Scott say that Engineers come back to Planet 4 every now and again and they WILL RETURN to Planet 4 at some Point....

So Potentially you could have a Company Science/Military Ship arrive to Planet 4 and they Struggle with the Xenomorph.... and then THINGS get Worse when the ENGINEERS turn up!

The Engineers would have a Tough Time with the Xenomorphs but the Survivors are BOUND to be Impressed with this KILLING MACHINE... they will also KNOW that THEY had NOT created it and seeing LOADS of Human Bodies they would suspect that the HUMANS had something to do with the Creation of it and the DEATH of the Civilization on Planet 4

If your a Engineer you are going to maybe be Impressed with the Xenomorph and WANT to get Humanity Destroyed before we can Spread Across the Galaxy and so you would take NOTE of the workshop of David, you would take some Eggs to your OUTPOST on LV-223 and Prepare to EVOLVE and MASS PRODUCE them to TAKE OUT the Earth.

When they get to LV-223 and Complete the Mass Production and are ABOUT to leave to DEPLOY them then we KNOW that something GOES TO POT!

And so you can Conclude the Prequels without having to go where David is going, and YET you dont Conflict what David does and so it leaves it OPEN to go to Origae-6 where the PLOT does-not have to STEER to ALIEN anymore.

I thought i would BUMP this with this Reply....

Been thinking about Creation and Different kind of Human, and i still think that DAVID would have gone on to EVOLVE those Embryo's to make his OWN Children a Mankind MK2 if you would.

So i have taken ONE of the Drawings by David from Alien Covenant, the Engineer and NEXT to it i have Modified that Engineer to make a New Kind of Human a Super Human if you would.

I took the Engineer and Increased the Length of the Forearms, and Fingers, then i Increased the Length of the Hips/Legs with me Further Extending the Legs again from the Knee.  Then i Elongated the Neck and Head Height but then also Elongated it at the back. 

Before adding 6 Digits and Removing the Nipples, Naval Cavity and Reducing the Ears.

What we have is a 10ft Humanoid with Greater Strength, Speed, Agility than a Human and likely Engineer, with better Dexterity and also some Extra Sensory Perception Organs.... maybe even like a Hive Mind/Telepathic Ability.

David using the Embyro's and Tinkering with the Genomes and then Splicing some Xenomorph DNA/Traits.... and so we had David go and Tinker the Engineers Deacon/Neomorph.  And this image above could be him Tinkering with the Human Genome.  Perfecting mankind beyond even the Engineers own DNA.

Of-course this Creation would TURN on David once they Discover he is NOT a GOD and he is a Creation of their own TRUE ORIGINS and they find out the Horrors that David had done to their Parents....

Not to Worry i think David has his WOLF to take care of his Rebellious Children and the RESULT would surely be  THE ULTRAMORPH!

And so INDEED if the Face Hugger makes 8ft Xenomorphs from a 6ft Human then the Ultramorph is about 13ft which would be what a Face Hugger would do to a 10ft Humanoid. ;)

As FAR as Alien Covenant goes i think its left the Franchise in a Pickle because so much of what a Prometheus Sequel could have been had been BRUSHED under the Carpet.... (Engineers, Dr Shaw those Questions).

And WHILE it does take the Themes of Prometheus and Creation to the NEXT LEVEL with David and his Quest to become a Creator/God, i think the Pickle we are in is that some Fans can not Connect to a Movie Franchise about HIM and as we have Begun the Route to the Xenomorph, i think we are Marching to the Inevitable and it seems that its UNLIKELY that some Fans would want to SIT THROUGH another Movie to then SET-UP the Inevitable.  By that if we require say TWO MORE Sequels until we get to the BACK DOOR of ALIEN, and the NEXT ONE will NOT be about Xenomorphs then i am NOT SURE that some Fans would want this they would want to get us to that FINAL CHAPTER

They would want to get to seeing the Space Jockeys turn up, seeing Xenomorphs Tearing things to Shreds and then seeing HOW those Eggs get on the Ship and WHEN the Space Jockey is Infected... i think a LOT of Fans would want to BY-PASS what David has Planned Next....

For me i would be TOTALLY up to go to where David goes NEXT and i dont mind if we have NO Xenomorphs for another 1-2 Prequels before we get the Concluding Movie.

I think its a Shame we may NEVER get to go to other Engineer Worlds, see other Creations and Conflicts be they in the Ancient Past or FAR FAR away... because there is ONE LIMITING FACTOR....

HUMANS so that means Earth right?

It does-not have to had been so, there could be other Humans in other Parts of the Galaxy, who is to say that Mankind was NOT brought to Earth and taken to other Worlds in the Past?

But how would that WORK... surely they wont Speak English?

Caprica (BSG Prequel) those are Humans FAR FAR away who Speak English. Look at Star Wars....  the Skywalkers are HUMAN and they Speak English what a Convenience that is ;)

So yeah you could have had Humans who do-not Speak English we can hear some Ancient Language or Alien with Subtitles then they Speak English as a Convenience for the Viewer.

Thanks ;)

Never Played RE8 i have to say there is a LOT that is similar to what we have seen in the Prequels in many ways ;)

I always found the Creation Elements and other things with the Prequels interesting and i think its a SHAME that they Felt they NEEDED to give us the Xenomorph and its Origins.  The Sequel to AC seemed like it would TAKE a Inevitable Conclusion but RS had said the NEXT MOVIE would NOT be about Xenomorphs and so it seems it may have NOT been what some Fans may have Expected a Continuation to had shown.

I think its Interesting to Point out the Tech Chris.

LV-223 has been a Outpost for 35'000 Years at least we ASSUME (unlikely the Engineers would leave a indication to Cavemen about a Outpost that will be Built in the Future).  And so LV-223 could have been there for even LONGER than 35'000 Years.

Regarding Obsolete Tech, i think we can Safely Assume that over time their Technology has had Upgrades and has Evolved, we had Ridley Scott say that maybe the Engineers Technology is MILLIONS of Years Old... this seemed in relation to the Juggernauts.  You would ASSUME that the Teardrop Ship is Technology that is BEYOND MILLIONS of Years Old.... However who is to say the Sacrificial Scene had taken place over a Billion Years? It could have been Hundreds of Millions or Hundreds of Thousands i think it just shows that the Engineers would Return Over and Over to UPGRADE/EVOLVE Creation maybe by the same means?

But sometimes you have to take what Ridley Scott says with a Pinch of Salt, because he does seem to get Confused at times, well he say things like when he said the Derelict and Juggernauts Tech are Separated by Hundreds of Years.  This makes Little Sense if the Derelict is Older as it would IMPLY that the Juggernauts are either a Few Thousand Years Old... or the Derelict has been on LV-426 for a VERY VERY VERY Long Time before the Juggernaught Tech.

Maybe the Derelict was the Newer Evolved Tech that had been in Service for a Shorter Time before the Outbreak happened and then LV-426, because when you have a NEW MODEL of Car or whatever then you will still USE the Older Model for a while after the New Model has been released.

I think IF we Question to HOW the Technology cant be Millions of Years Old because that would mean there has been NO UPGRADES for Millions of Years.  I think we NEED to bare in mind that with some Tools then ONCE they are Basically Perfect for their JOB then they do-not CHANGE.  A Fork, a Spoon a Cup have all been around for a LONG TIME and in 50 Years they would still NOT really change as far as any Evolution.  The same thing Happens with Nature, be it Fauna or Flora, some Organisms have remained the same for MILLIONS of Years some have Changed Little... but then you have other Species that have had a lot of Evolving over duration of Tens/Hundreds of Thousands of Years

Yeah i know Technology is Different, but my Point is that with a Fork or say a Spade (for digging) then they are Basically the same NOW as 100 Years ago, and more.. and will likely be the same in Hundred Years as they do-not really Need to be Changed for their Purpose.

And so if  the Engineers Technology is FIT for its Purpose and Needs NO kind of Evolution/Change then the Technology could remain the same for Millions of Years.

I think when it comes down to HOW it was that David could USE this Tech, well for the sake of the PLOT we have to assume that the Research that David has done has allowed him to READ the Engineers Writing etc (we saw he could SPEAK to a Engineer) and the Doors maybe are Easy to Activate because maybe the Engineers were so NAIVE that they NEVER thought anyone else but their OWN KIND would ever Arrive at their Outposts.

Also Once he activated the Orrery Hologram Play Back he saw the Engineers and Watched HOW they Activated the Navigation System.

I will add that for HOW Advanced the Engineers Tech is, then YES as Blackant has said before, i dont think that Tech looks Millions of Years more Advanced than say the Human Tech from circa 2100-2200 in the Alien Universe, many Thousands of Years then YES but MILLIONS?  But as i said before IF the Juggernaught is Basically as Perfect as Needed for its Task then maybe it NEEDS NO kind of Upgrade/Evolution.

Happy 4th anniversary.
Honestly, I like it as much as Prometheus.
If Disney or whoever is in control decides to go in different direction, I just hope they get someone who is a fan and cares about the franchise, and not
someone who doesn't give a shit and only cares about $$.

(Some spoilers for Resident evil village)

I recently finished Resident evil village, and one part of the game towards the end reminded me a lot of alien: covenant.
Some previous parts of the game reminded me of other films (Frankenstein's army (2013) for example), but this one specific part immediately reminded me of alien: covenant when I saw it.

I'm talking about this:
https://youtu.be/dBuxkXkc7MY?t=91

Thanks a lot for sharing all of this with us.

I would like to help but I never played a game like that, I'm sorry.

@BlackAnt,

I will agree it was lazy storytelling to assume David could operate ancient Engineer technology. I think it would have been far more entertaining (and realistic) if he attempted to press the right buttons but accidentally unleashed Hell on the Prometheus crew.

We should also consider that the installation on LV-223 had been abandoned for some time. Perhaps the Engineer facilities here were dated and running older, obsolete tech? Clearly there were some bugs ... lol More so this might equate to someone in the 1950s traveling to the future and discovering a military base from the 1970s. Obviously a ridiculous comparison, but for the sake of discussion, my point being perhaps the tech present on LV-223 was not as advanced or the pinnacle of Engineer development at the time?

I dunno, I'm trying to give David the benefit of the doubt hahaha

You are right though, the physics and laws governing the Engineer tech and their abilities exceed any comprehension Humans or their A.I. are likely able to grasp. But, having an advanced A.I. take point when trying to exploit such technology lends a little more believability to the plot than if it had been one of the Human crew.

I too, was left moderately entertained by the CGI in Covenant, truth be told, I enjoyed Prometheus and its special effects more.

Regarding the SAFEGUARDS for the Engineers Home-World then YES you would expect better, but then the same can be said about LV-223 and HOW they suffered the Outbreak.  But we are talking about Necessity to drive the PLOT, so if David and Dr Shaw where Stopped before they could Enter the Planets Atmosphere say a Barrier is Raised and the Ship Disabled then the Engineers discover that the Ship has NONE of their Kind but Intruders then we would have had a Different Movie and well the ODDS of David and Dr Shaw being around for LONG would be Slender...

Regarding the Technology then i agree to a Point, i would say that Humans are Intelligent some Exceptionally so even in ANCIENT TIMES and so i think if you brought say 100 Humans from say 1000 Years ago to our Present, then i would think a Majority of them could be TAUGHT how to USE our Technology. We have the ability to Pass On and Learn Knowledge which is WHY i guess we Survived because of our ability to Adapt and Evolve in this way.

But as FAR as say going back 1000 Years and leaving a Smart Phone or Tablet behind for some Humans to Discover then YES they would NOT have a Clue what it is.  We are a Curious Species and eventually some will PLAY with the Phone and Realize you can Touch the Screen to OPEN UP many Different Things, they could with TRIAL and ERROR get to the Gallery and see Images and Videos and maybe Accidentally Activate the Camera....  but the Concept of APPS for Calls, Messaging the Internet etc would be TOTALLY ALIEN to them.

These things would appear ALIEN to us even 100 Years ago, but i would say if you took a Smart Phone back 50 Years ago then it would NOT be as ALIEN or Hard to Grasp i would say Modern Mankind could USE the Technology we have in 100 Years.

But as FAR as sending a Device from NOW to 100 Years ago and Expecting someone to Reverse Engineer it that would be Difficult because their is a LOT of Components that are NOT invented yet and for someone to even Consider HOW such a Device is MADE and take it apart and Build Another as far as going back to 1000 Years ago then YES it would be Impossible for them.

But i dont think we have to look at David being able to Reverse Engineer it, he seems to MERELY be Using it... and as a Intelligent A.I i think he could Learn how to USE what we have seen in the Prequels.  The Technology does-not look like its WAY BEYOND our Comprehension.

However a Point i think you Raised before is VALID in that the Technology we see does-not really FIT with what you would Expect from a Species who are Millions of Years Old... the Technology should be BEYOND our Comprehension.

A lot of things with Movies is a Necessity for the Plot, if Dr Shaw said to David about can he USE one of the Engineer ships.. if his Response was NO-WAY its Impossible for him.  Then Dr Shaw would have to Spend her Time in the Complexes or on a Ship just to Breath the Oxygen Generated until someone ELSE would eventually TURN UP at LV-223.  She likely Starve to Death by then.

Welcome back Black Ant ;)

Firstly i have to agree to a degree i do like the Dome but i also prefer the View/Versions were you CANT really make out the SKULL, you can make out something but its NOT that Clear.

Regarding the David as the Creator i think it makes PERFECT sense as far as the PLOT and Story Arc and Themes, but then having him Create something that SIMILAR but Not the Same (lets say the Ultramorph Design) would have FITTED with the ARC and kept the Original Origins a Mystery.

I think the Xenomorph in AC looks Good in some Shots, and in others its NOT like the Greatest, but with some CGI then that does affect the Budget and well when they wish to have the Beast as being something Tall and Slender then there are LIMITS when your putting a MAN in a SUIT and Especially with the Change to a Unguligrade Type of Leg.  You Cant beat Props/Puppets and Stop Motion but its Expensive and Time Consuming.  So then you see the USE of CGI for Full Body Shots and well i thought it was ok but it looked a bit ROPEY at times on the Covenant.

@Chris, thanks it's good to be back and cheers to everyone else as well.

This David thing is perplexing and always has been a point of contention for me after viewing AC. I like parts of AC but as whole I just did not get into the CGI beast.

David figuring out millions of years Engineer tech to me would be like taking people from 25 thousand years ago, with bows and arrows and asking them to reverse engineer a CPU.

I think David is a smart human AI computer; however, there is no way for film makers to make a film truly relatable about such advanced aliens because there really would be no way for us to understand it without all the conventional plot details to make it easy enough for audience members to understand.

I just don't think David could reverse engineer a millions of years old alien AI system. To me I think their code may work faster than the speed of light and at a much smaller scale in hyper-dimensional space....technically places David's limited AI would just not have enough processing power to untangle.

They would also employ different physics and time would most certainly factor in so it may be both physically impossible for David to understand and interact with something that the machine would not let him interact with.

For example, lets say I program a computer and tell it back in time several weeks ago from now "do not let any one access this interface or do not run this code no matter what happens - so no other systems are accessible".

The time scales are just to vast. We might have quantum computers that are very powerful in a hundred years. Engineers at this level of evolution would be able to fold a few trillion universes of code into there systems. It would be beyond anything we could conceive of for many generations of AI....Their AI's would learn too and they would control them. David is depicted as having a quantum qubit computer for a brain; however, his processing power would have arcane limitations compared to the Engineers. They travel faster than the speed of light so their AI computers work faster than the speed of light. This means so many things.

Violating causality presents challenges to David's physical limitations in a specific time line no matter how fast his AI mind might work.

AC is a good looking film overall...I enjoyed the acting. Yet all the parts did not justify the whole for me. After the original Alien it is very hard to recreate that level of uniqueness in so many other films.

Been a while BlackAnt, nice to see you back! There's a lot to unpack in your reply, so let me focus on a couple points that stood out.

The clear dome, eye sockets look to me was way more menacing than no eyes at all! Technically speaking we both conclude the same observation, the Beast had no eyes and such avoided such a vulnerability, as you put. I don't think the clear dome and empty eye sockets of the original 1979 design made the Alien look any less menacing, in fact I find the empty eye socket / skull attribute adds a terrifying aspect to the creature's design.

Regarding David's use of ancient Engineer tech and bypassing their security protocols. Keep in mind, A.I. even at its most primitive stage in our world today can calculate problems many times faster than the organic Human brain. An A.I. as advanced as David would have no trouble assessing, decrypting and cracking any code established by any organic species. He studied the Engineer language and for all we know was able to communicate on a different level with perhaps the Engineer's own local A.I. on LV-223. He was able to exhibit knowledge in decoding Engineer symbols when he led the Weyland team into the Engineer facilities, opening doors and activating hologram recordings. It's not far out to assume David could interpret and interact with alien tech with ease. We also don't know how much pre-screening of Weyland info regarding Engineers David underwent before the Prometheus mission. I'm sure he did some homework.

The Runner design is definitely a great design too and I'll add it to another Poll in the future. This topic was more so only to compare the Alien designs of Alien and Aliens, not the entire lineup of entries in the Xenomorph family.

And finally, although I too was a tad disappointed by Alien: Covenant, it still did the beast plenty of justice and turned it back... somewhat... into the ominous, hard-to-kill antagonist we all remembered, instead of the Canon fodder of Cameron's sequel and Alien: Resurrection.

Well well well.....Did IQ's drop sharply while I was away!!!! Yes the false reports of my death were premature indeed.....no tears were shed for me when I was not here all these long months....sniff sniff sniff sighhhhh......pffffft too!

Anyways lets get to it then LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

So TRIPLE OG Alien 1979? or Different 1986 Alien?

For me I have always and will continue to loath the clear carapace, or head covering that reveals the eye sockets....When I was in the theater and saw the original Alien in 1979 you could not see the eye sockets what so ever....and every time I see "The original Big Chap" with those ridiculous eye sockets I would rather shave my head with a cheese grader and chew on tin foil!!!

So for me and forever I enjoy both monsters equally as long as you cannot see those big silly eye sockets.

For me the Alien was more intriguing and mysterious for the simple fact that it did not need eyes at all to hunt it's prey. Eyes are a vulnerability for something so advanced as a bio-mechanical weapon designed by the engineers, which are millions of years more evolved than humans. So no I hate the clear carapace head piece and always have and always will.

What I despise even more is that supposedly David made the Alien that we see on LV-426? I say supposedly because in a sane world where there would never be preposterous ignorant prequels, there would instead be real movies with writers and producers that have real talent. We have all payed such a high price for the sin conjured up as AC. No I shall not defend this ridiculousness that the original Alien was milked for to the last drop. I drink no more from the chalice of what may have been or what could be. Prometheus was a good looking film with potential....and yet somehow we were all cheated like so much fodder for a quick buck so we could see some slick fast CGI of the engineers and then....David some how mastering millions of years old Alien technology and wiping them all out with their own weapons.....Ok believe that nonsense if you want to; however, in reality that story-line is only believable for the weak minded movie goers. You really believe the Engineers had no security protocols on their technology? Seriously?

If you believe that they did not then I have a slightly used juggernaut to sell if anyone is interested....very low miles of course.

Does anyone see any eyes here.....I don't and millions of other Alien fans did not see the beast with any eyes either. I could post hundreds of other pics but I will not....we all like what we like and that is that!

This is in bronze by the way and no eyes either!

Watched ALIENS Last Night in in MOST Scenes it looked Decent, i think the CONCEPT/IDEA of the Xenomorph is Legendary but to  Portray it on SCREEN with a Man in a Suit you are ALWAYS going to have some Issues when looking at the ENTIRE Suit.  This TOPIC seems to be to Discus the Actual Suit in which i Prefer the Elegance of the 1979 Version the Hands are a Little Disappointing in some Scenes though.

I think the Queen from ALIENS looked Great because you did-not have to PLAY by the Limits of having a Monster Suit/Costume.  Regardless i dont think there is a MASSIVE Difference between the 1979 Xenomorph Drone and 1986 Warrior the Warrior had become Iconic to many, it would have LOOKED a bit Different had they been able to Keep the Semi-Clear Domes in place and having them not Crack and Fall Off.

Its offensive to not have a single vote for the Aliens (1986) suit.

Yes the voting system has been a long time coming hahaha I finally got all the coding done for it! Had to build one from scratch lol Should be fun and add some more engagement to the forums!

And I agree, there was definitely an essence lost with the Aliens redesign. The Big Chap has this eery, ominous presence to it. Whereas the Aliens Morphs seem frail and just not as intimidating.

"We know so little for sure, there's great scope for expanding this arc of the story.

It's just such a pity that the popcorn-loving public are more interested in the slimy snapping xenomorph above everything else. If only Ridley had been allowed to carry on with his vision..."

I think that was his Plan (Ridley Scott) he saw a Potential with the Engineers for a MASSIVE Plot as far as NOT having to be Soley Connected to the Xenomorph.  He had said the AIM of the Prequels was about Creation, WHY you would Create, WHAT happens when Creation Sub-Creates?  He did also say it was about WHAT Happens when we DIE and IMMORTALITY but i doubt we would be going to like a Spiritual After-Life World of JEDI FORCE GHOSTS ;)

Ridley Scott indicated he FELT the Franchise could be as BIG as Star Wars and Star Trek, some think he means as Successful and so YEAH a Franchise about Marines, Engineers and XENOMORPHS that as BIG a HIT as Star Wars?

The Problem is some Fans seem to think the EMPHASIS is on the Xenomorph, but RS seems to see them as MERELY a Single Part of the Engineers, they are merely a Form of Pest Control that some Engineers had Created (Evolved into what David Created).

Apart from LV-426/LV-223 we have the Engineers as a Ancient Race who have SEEDED Worlds, maybe MANY MANY... they appear to be able to Travel Beyond our Galaxy to other Galaxies.... were they could have also SEEDED Worlds.

And so Potentially in a GALAXY, FAR FAR AWAY... the Engineers could have World they have Seeded that have PLEASED them, or maybe some Races that have Grown to Rival them....

so the Engineers are Involved with Worlds that could be Thousands of Light Years away... MILLIONS of Light Years away.... they could have Created Countless types of Life, many Humanoid, some Different and maybe FAR FAR away there are other Races that the Engineers have NOT Created.

So his Comment about Star Wars and Star Trek i feel was in Context to the PLOT of the Engineers means we do-not have to be Limited to Earth, LV-223, and LV-426 and Humans, Engineers, Xenomorphs and oh YES.........."Arcturian Poontang"

Thats my Interpretation... but maybe he just FELT that Xenomorphs could be as BIG as JEDI/SITH and Marines/Mercs as BIG as Storm Troopers and the like ;)

And so to Continue.....

YES we had Ridley Scott suggest the Engineers Technology is maybe MILLIONS of Years Old, we know that LV-223 had been around for at least 35'000 Years, but that the Engineers maybe ONLY decided to Create their Horrors some 2000+ Years ago, or more LIKELY this is WHEN they Decided to USE their Weapons on Earth but that went to POT...

I think some Fans put too much EMPHASIS on the Black Goo and Horrors it Created and Mural etc. The MAIN basis of the PLOT is our Engineers are Space Gardeners, they SEED Worlds, they go back and EVOLVE their Creations both Genetically and Technologically but they DO-NOT give them all their Knowledge.

The Earth is NOT the ONLY place the Engineers have Seeded/Visited as far as RS had indicated, he also hinted that LIFE well Civilization was on Earth before Mankind, and the Engineers would go to Worlds they are NOT that Happy with their Creations and Development and DEEM it Necessary to go and RESET those Worlds, this is where they BOMBARD a World so that they can START AGAIN.

RS had indicated that after a Few Hundred Years the Worlds are SAFE to then be USED to Seed/Create again.  The Basis of the Engineers Plot is CREATION and the DESTRUCTION is only seen as Necessary as a Last Measure to Eradicate a Creation that has either become a THREAT or Displeased/Offended the Engineers.

So the Engineers have been going around for MILLIONS of Years putting Effort in Seeding/Creating Life, and then Teaching these Civilizations things, but then also WHEN they feel their Creation is NOT working out as Planned they use the JUGGERNAUTS to essentially HIT RESET.

We NEED to look at the Engineers in LIGHT of this, maybe they have MILITARY and RS had indicated the LV-223 Engineers are the Military Types, but it seems that MOSTLY their Mission is to CLEAN UP any Worlds that Displease the Engineers or are seen as a Threat and as it seems these Worlds are ONLY really Evolved to a Certain Technological Level then they are NO REAL Threat.

Not when its Military Circa 2000+ Years ago VS the BLACK GOO.

So as Space Gardeners we maybe NEED to look at Worlds as say APPLE TREES within Orchids, and if ONE of these has Tainted Fruit, that maybe merely PICKING and throwing the BAD APPLES away would NOT go and FIX the Problem, maybe their is  RISK that the Fruit/Tree could Contaminant others... then maybe you POISON the TREE... then UPROOT it and then you can PLANT another.

So the Black Goo basically acts as a Pesticide, it will KILL the Tree but NOT do anything to the Orchard, the LAND can be Reseeded as SOON as the Contaminated or Unsatisfactory Tree has been DESTROYED.

So if this WAS the Engineers ways... it makes NO SENSE to Create a Weapon that would Produce some HOSTILE Reaction, like say the NEOMORPH Spores... or Mutate Life into a HOSTILE FORM like Fifield, the Hammerpedes etc.  Even if after Hundreds of Years these Dangerous Organisms will become GONE.

If we look at the SACRIFICIAL Scene we see the Engineer consumes the GOO and we are LEAD to that this Disolves his Body and that this Process would either

1) Create the Basic Building Blocks of Life.

2) Become the Catalyst to Pass on his DNA to Evolve Life that is already on that Planet.

If you look at that Scene and then ask.... WHAT if your POURED down Thousands of Gallons of that Sacrificial Goo onto a CITY?

You would have to ASSUME that any Life-Forms that get Covered would suffer the same FATE as the Engineer in the Sacrificial Scene, they would DISSOLVE and from this their DNA will KICK-START the Process again..

You would RESET the Life on that World.

And so i feel that the SACRIFICIAL GOO is more BETTER to Reset Worlds.

Also Consider that if you had a Infected Engineer with the GOO and they was about to Dissolve into a Substance a Mutagen that would either become the BUILDING BLOCKS to Start Life or a Mutagen that would INFECT any LIFE and it would Mutate to take on Engineer DNA.

To me it makes MORE Sense to Sacrifice Engineers in some other Place and then Collect and Store the Resulting Mutagen to then UNLEASH this on a World. Its a more FOOL PROOF way than the Sacrificial Scene, and IF a World already has LIFE then DROPPING DOWN the Sacrificial Goo makes more Sense.

And so THIS is WHAT i think the Intention of the Juggernauts and Urns are.. well WAS....  a Advancement on the Seeding Ships to offer a more EFFICIENT means to SEED and RESET Worlds.

IF the Engineers saw that being Selected to DONATE your Body and Soul to Create Life is seen as IMPORTANT and a HONOR then this makes the WHOLE Planet 4 Courtyard just MAKE SENSE.

The Engineers are Creators, they seem Proud of their OWN Kind, but i Suspect that SOME of them had Grown discontent with their Masters or their DNA and Discovered something else with GENETIC Traits that would be seen as PERFECT and i feel that THIS is when those Engineers on LV-223 had began to USE their Creation Tool in a Corrupt way to Engineer other LIFE using a DNA  that is NOT their own... they LIKELY saw some Organism thats the Precursor to the Xenomorph the Deacon and they WOULD USE its DNA to EVOLVE Creation.

If you for a MOMENT look at the Engineers (Planet 4) as Humans, and then look at David and Replicants as say LV-223 Engineers, look at their Story (A.I that are Sub-created to just Serve their In-superior Masters)  You see that David sees Humans who he is Created in their Likeness as NOT being Worthy, and he sees the Black Goo as having Potential to Create something more Perfect than that of a Human... "Big Things have Small Beginnings"

Look at that Mentality/Plot from Davids Perspective... then APPLY that to those LV-223 Super Engineered Engineers and i think you have the ANSWER to what was going on down on LV-223.

Well it seems if we look at the Sacrificial Scene especially with the ELDERS and looking at what Little we saw of the FINAL DRAFT then it was a VERY RITUAL Practice, and something that RS had mentioned, he likened it to how the AZTECS would Choose a Sacrifice who would spend a YEAR treated like a PRINCE and then would be Sacrificed to the Gods in the HOPE of a better Harvest etc.

The Engineers have a LOT of PRIDE in their Work/Cult they like to make Statues and Murals to what they have Achieved.   When we look at Planet 4 it seems to be DEVOID of anything relating to the Xenomorph or Horrors from LV-223.  It does HOWEVER have a LOT of Statues of Engineers, including those FOUR HUGE ones near the Hanger in a Very Buddha like Pose.

The BIG HEAD Room seemed to be a Central Point of Focus, and those Engineers each appeared to be a LITTLE DIFFERENT to each other, some looked like the Elders from Prometheus Deleted Scene.  Ridley Scott had called these GUYS the WISE MEN, the APOSTLES and SUPERIOR BEINGS (Superior to WHO). Chris Seagers had called them the HIERARCHY.   And so these Guys where likely the FOUNDERS of their Civilization or CULT.

When we come down to the SHIPS then we see in the Movies there is NO SIGN of any Weapons with the Ships, apart from being able to DROP the URNS down to Rain down the Black Goo.  The Engineers could have been FLOCKING to the Courtyard in Hundreds of Thousands to WELCOME HOME some of their Military and they are LIKELY very Naive to think that NO-ONE else could Obtain their Technology or that ANY of their KIND would USE it against them.

When say a Nuke Sub returns to Port and Battle Ships they are indeed sometimes Welcomed Back Especially like after BIG WARS... and those SHIPS could so Easy just TURN their Weapons on the Port/Crowds but we NEVER Fear this will Happen as its VERY UNLIKELY.. unless ONE had been Hijacked.

The Scorpion Sting looking SHIP had been referred to by Ridley Scott as a Docking Ship and some kind of BORDER CONTROL.  so it was some kind of Security Measure, but we Discover (with keen Eye) this SHIP has ended up Crashed in the Mountains.... Wayne Haag had suggested that after the Deployment of the Black Goo that the Scorpion Ship and Juggernaught had got into a FIGHT and the Ships had Crashed.  We see NO Evidence those Ships had any kind of Weapon.

As a Border Control then you would ASSUME the Role of the Docking Ship is to Connect with the Incoming Juggernaught which they then Carry Out some Checks, and MAYBE they Check the Cargo or DISABLE the Cargo, so that the Ships can then LAND in the Hanger.

Nice to see a Vote System ;)

I think the IDEA in Aliens is to make them look the same, the Head looks Different only because the Clear Dome was something that would be too Fragile and get Falling Off due to the Heavy Action Scenes.

The Xenomorph looks more BETTER with it on as in The Big Chap, i think the Xenomorphs in ALIENS in some Shots did-not look as Elegant as in ALIEN and this was Mainly due to MASS PRODUCTION of Costumes and HOW those Stunt Actors in the Costumes were NOT all really TALL or really THIN so they looked Bulky.

The Xenomorph in ALIEN looked Elegant due to HOW SLENDER it was and how LONG the Legs were, and with ALIEN COVENANT the Xenomorph looked the same as in ALIEN its a Shame we NEVER SAW much of the Costume in FULL but again this WORKED due to having a TALL/THIN Actor in the Suit.  Something which the other Appearances in the Franchise including the AVP Movies just NEVER Quite got IT as Right..... its NOT EASY to go and Find say 5+ near 7ft Actors who are VERY THIN.

Certainly we got the Impression that David felt that Mankind and the Engineers did-not deserve to Live.  He seemed VERY interested in his Creation, even thinking they could RULE the Galaxy.

So when he saw that the Covenant had Thousands of Good Souls, then INDEED they could be USED as Hosts for his Army of Xenomorphs. 

However if this was his PLAN then i am not sure he would even NEED to have a Colony Set-up.  The ONLY point in having a Colony looking like its SET-UP would be to BAIT more Humans to arrive as they would see what seems to be a Colony Set Up, as it would look STRANGE if say Origae-6 just had the Covenant landed down with NO SIGNS of any Colony Set-up that would appear Suspicious.

The Xenomorph as a Weapon is FLAWED due to HOW it requires a HOST, so Deployment would be Difficult we also dont know HOW-LONG a Xenomorph would Survive for, and IF they Lived for a LONG TIME the Problem is having say Thousands of Them on Origae-6 and then Safely getting them onto a SHIP to Transport.  However Transporting Eggs may be Easier... but then its Deploying them close to where Humans would get Infected.

A Engineer Ship would Certainly have to come into PLAY and so i dont think David would take the Covenant Directly to LV-223/LV-426 and i think it would be a MASSIVE COINCIDENCE if Origae-6 was a Engineer World or had a Engineer Ship.

So it would be LIKELY and Ridley Scott indicated as such that a ENGINEER SHIP would arrive at where David is going (have to Assume Origae-6) its a Question of HOW would they know WHERE to Find Him?

Regarding Daniels then maybe YES he has Plans for her to become his Queen of Sorts...

HOWEVER............ looking into what Ridley Scott had said at the Time after Alien Covenant he had indicated the MOVIE would NOT be about Xenomorphs, he said it would be about A.I and what KIND of a World would David Create!

He had said this a Few Times and the One Time he went on to talk about A.I and said that the Replicants from Blade Runner are A.I and so in that CONTEXT it appears that Ridley Scott is NOT looking at A.I as being ROBOTS... well Synthetic but that A.I can be Biological, and so what he is LIKELY looking at is A.I as merely a Intelligent Being/Species that are Artificially Created or Engineered.

And so it seems Implied we would be mainly looking at WHAT it is that David would WANT to Create Next. It will NOT be about Xenomorphs, and it will be some kind of Artificial Creation (so NOT a Natural Creation).  And so to me WHAT stands out is those Embryo's and i think that David may ATTEMPT to use them to Create Something or Engineer them to Evolve them into something that is NOT a Human but is NOT a Xenomorph.

Ritual use? Hard to say for sure, since we've only had a tantalising glimpse of Engineer society. We've seen three different kinds of Engineer ship: the teardrop at the start of Prometheus; the juggernaut; and the one hovering above the crowd that David bombs.

Is the massive cargo bay in a juggernaut designed specifically to carry xenomorph eggs? Or is it more general purpose? Is the juggernaut a weapon of war?

If it is a weapon of war, I don't see that the crowd would be particularly bothered by its appearance. Communist countries on Earth parade their WMDs in front of cheering crowds, for example...

Of course, we don't know how Engineers think. Perhaps those juggernauts have been around for millions of years, and they don't see any need to improve on the best.

Or maybe we've just seen the tiniest speck of their galactic civilisation so far, and they have a multitude of different ships.

We know so little for sure, there's great scope for expanding this arc of the story.

It's just such a pity that the popcorn-loving public are more interested in the slimy snapping xenomorph above everything else. If only Ridley had been allowed to carry on with his vision...

A couple of things we know about David, for sure, as he was being very candid with Walter just prior to attacking him:

1. He thinks he's already created perfection, in the form of his engineered creature.
2. He can't allow humanity to grasp for resurrection.

So it's clearly foremost in his mind that he wants to wipe out humans. A good way of achieving that would be through a xenomorph army. If I was as twisted as he, I'd
- put Daniels' body to some nefarious use, so she can't blab
- Land the colonists on Origae-6
- Let the colony grow
- Infect the colony
- Send out lies over the ether to attract other ships from Earth
- Let the visitors spread the infection throughout the galaxy

Of course, we know things don't quite work out that way, and an Engineer ship (complete with pilot) gets infected. Perhaps David gets up to his evil tricks, but an Engineer ship lands on Origae-6...

Looks Good... i have to say i am FOND of Movie Themed Pinball Machines... just i am HOPELESS at them lol

A Cafe near me that Sadly Closed about 5 Years ago had a Pinball Machine from the 50's, 1958 i think it was.  Sadly the owner was in ILL HEALTH and the Cafe that had been in Generations since the late 60's had closed and became a Peddle Bike/Cycling Shop ;(

I miss having ONE of the BEST Full English Breakfasts around ;(

But whats DONE is DONE....

The Problem NOW is that we have Painted ourselves into a Corner...

You would think that David would USE the Colonist to MASS PRODUCE the Xenomorph, but then he has to FIND a way to Deploy them.... The Covenant would be EASY PICKINGS for a Engineer Ship or Human Military.  There would be LITTLE Reason to go to Origae-6 he would be better off going to LV-223 and to take some Humans with him... then USE that Ship to go somewhere to Conduct his Experiments.

The Problem is that some Fans would NOT want to see a Emphasis again on David, and you would NEED to see some Humans and also they would NOT want to see David have anything more to do with the Xenomorph, and Reveal that NOPE he could NOT have Created it.

What LITTLE we know about the Sequel was that it would NOT be about Xenomorphs it would be about WHERE it is that David goes NEXT and WHAT KIND of WORLD he would Create....  Daniels had asked to who she THOUGHT was Walter about WHAT KIND OF WORLD can they Build.... he said "if we are KIND it will be a KIND World" and so i DONT think we are on a Path where David is purely going to Create Horrors... but Creation is the THEME.

I suspect it will Follow the THEME of Creation, and David had showed he can PERFECT the Horror the Engineers had attempted on LV-223 and i SUSPECT that NOW that David wants to Create his LAMBS and will EVOLVE the Embryos into a NEW Humanoid Species.

But i dont think we will EVER find out what was NEXT.

There was to be 3/4 Incoming Players/Parties with the Engineers the ONLY one he had Confirmed... i would say they are ONE and i would say THREE/FOUR have to be Similar and so that would be HUMANS... and NUMBER TWO?  Maybe that would be the Civilization that David would ATTEMPT to Create?

I think with the aftermath of Prometheus it seemed that FOX had Considered that maybe to make the Emphasis of the Prequels to NOT be about Xenomorphs or Ultimately give us the EVENTS that led to the Derelict on LV-426 was maybe a MISTAKE!

But some Fans were Perfectly Fine that we NEVER had those Answered in Prometheus and i am sure some were Looking Forwards to what does David do when he is FREE and WHAT KIND of beings they Discover and WILL we see Dr Shaw get her Answers?

The Problem that FOX had was how does Dr Shaw be able to Communicate with these Engineers or whoever, what HAPPENS to HER would depend on HOW they would React to her and David turning up, and well some Fans could NOT connect with a Android and some Fans could NOT connect with Dr Shaws Character and then its a case of are they ENOUGH and would they Connect with Engineers?

So you NEED more Humans, and also if they was going to Introduce the Xenomorph and eventually get to ALIEN then thats WHY making the PLOT and Location of Planet 4 be somewhere CLOSE was just Convenient.   But this came at the SACRIFICE of what some Prometheus Fans would EXPECT with a Sequel, while Alien Covenant also DID-NOT please the Fans of the BEAST... the Xenomorph as the Emphasis was on David and having him as Creator was WELL..... lets say  SACRILEGIOUS to the Fandom in General.

But IF they had some Decent Writers and BALLS! they could have Pulled something off that would have WORKED!  We could have had a SPIN-OFF thats SET FAR FAR AWAY!

I have Pitched this Idea a few times, it is what my Prometheus 3 idea would have been about (My Prometheus 2 was set on Earth).

so PARADISE is basically the Cradle of Creation its where MANKIND was Created, its also Considered a Place that ONLY the Worthy, Loyal and Honorable are Permitted to stay....  Hence WHY our Ancestors Adam and Eve were KICKED OUT of PARADISE.

So you have this WORLD that is what 10'000, 20'000 maybe up to 50'000 Light Years from Earth.  There is NO-WAY that Humans with our Technology would have Ventured to this PLACE by the Time we even FINISHED with ALIENS.

This WORLD has a CITY thats Basically the same as in Alien Covenant, with a Central Temple and a Courtyard with Hangers etc. We may see a LITTLE more of the Prometheus Aesthetic but it should NOT be too much Different to Planet 4. Beyond this Central Point of the City are Smaller Areas each with a Smaller Central Building, and the ENTIRE group of Towns/Villages that Connect to a CENTRAL CITY are Surrounded by some kind of WALL.

Who LIVES on this World?

We have Engineers and they could be more like the Planet 4 kind just Taller and more Pale Skinned.... This is the World that they DWELL and where they would KEEP/TAKE various Species that they have Created and are Pleased with but ONLY in Small Numbers...

Among these are HUMANS... you can have it that Humans are Seeded in more Worlds than Earth, but the Humans on Earth had became Unworthy of the Engineers attention and Knowledge and after a FAILED attempt to Destroy us, they had Abandoned the LV-223 Outpost, they had Abandoned Earth, leaving us to ROT and Destroy Ourselves!

These Engineers being so Naive that they THOUGHT without the HELP of their Knowledge then Worlds they Seed/Visit will REMAIN at the TECHNOLOGY LEVEL that they allowed (Level we are at 2000+ Years ago) and so they ASSUMED that on our OWN we would NEVER be able to Master Space Travel and are NO THREAT!

HOW DOES.... Dr Shaw speak with these beings?

EASY... During a Period of where Dr Shaw is BUILDING UP some Trust with David before she Re-attaches him, he could TEACH her a LITTLE of the Engineers Language.

But DAVID would be doing MOST of the Talking, but you then have ONE of the Elders go up to Dr Shaw and Place his Hands on her Head and be able to some how READ her Mind/Soul and see she is GOOD OF HEART... the Engineer is able to Speak with her Mind and Read it.... and he then is able to IMPLANT the Knowledge of their Language to her.

FROM this Point you dont NEED any Subtitles, we hear Dr Shaw and the Engineers and other Humans etc all Speak English just for our Convenience.

The ELDER attempts to Read David but he CANT... he then Discovers what David is and is Concerned as he NOT ONLY cant Read his Mind/Intentions but also KNOWS of the RISK of Sub-Creating a Superior Form or Service Race as THEY had done that  with the LV-223 Engineers, but some of them BEGAN to see themselves as Superior to the ELDERS and their Creations... these LV-223 Engineers were Tasked with Certain Tasks, they was also GIVEN the TASK of Taking the Black Goo to RESET WORLDS.... but those on LV-223 had decided to CREATE something with it instead... they INTENDED to USE this Horror to RULE the Galaxy but they was STOPPED and they had 3 Ships they had intended to USE to Begin their Conquest, ONE had been Destroyed... ONE had made it to a World and Afflicted Horrors on it, this World is Abandoned and the FINAL SHIP had Crashed Near the PLACE they had Created such a thing.

Dr Shaw informs them of LV-223 and they said the PLACE should be Secure as they left some Guardians on that Moon... and they have since Abandoned that Outpost but use others for Genetically Evolving Species but they decided to NO-LONGER do this.  And they just take down Chosen Humanoids to NEW Worlds to Begin Colonization instead of Sacrificing them for their DNA to Evolve Worlds, they FELT they had Achieved as GOOD a Perfection with their Creations and that those they had Created more PERFECT proved to be Problematic.

We get to a Point that the Elders find out about David and what he had done, and DECIDE that he is to be Imprisoned while they Decide what to do, they have a MEETING and Decide to Destroy him.

One of the ELDERS goes to him and says he sees PERFECTION in David and that he had Engineered the LV-223 Engineers but his BROTHERS had decided to UNDO them apart from a Few Loyal Super Engineers..... this Elder thinks the Council has Gone Soft.... and he Frees David, and David asks about the HORROR that they Created on LV-223 the Elder says he can SHOW HOW they achieved this but ONLY if David would RID the World of those Weak/Feeble Engineers.  This Elder says he was Youngest of the Council he had a TWIN who they had Punished for using the Creation Tool in a way they Council had NOT Sanctioned.   He says the Elders had been on the Verge of Immortality at a COST and they Turned their Back on it..... and that HE could NOT go and KILL the LEADER... but if their Council was DESTROYED at the Hands of David then this Younger Elder would RULE and then he would SHOW to David as to HOW they can Rebuild a Superior Engineer Species.

A Group of Engineers take David away, and David goes to get Dr Shaw, we have a Fight Break Out....  Dr Shaw refuses to go with David so he Kidnaps her and makes his way to the Juggernaught and Unleashes Hell on the World.

They meet up with another Ship that has the Renegade Engineers and the Young Elder informs David about in order to Create the Horror they NEED a Human Female but David is NOT so keen to Sacrifice Dr Shaw.

There is more to it than this but this is kind of the NUTS/BOLTS we see Horrors Unleashed on Paradise, the Sequel we would see David go to a Place with the Renegade Engineers, but he Double Crosses them... begins to Create his OWN Horrors... Sparing Dr Shaw and saying with her he can Create a New Humanity that are Superior... but she Rejects, and she is KILLED he attempts to Create a New Horror but it has Problems... but he knows he is CLOSE. He takes his Ship to ONE of the Worlds the Engineers have Humans and David wishes to Destroy them and Subject/Use them to Create his OWN kind of Humanoid.  Another Engineer Ship arrives to what is LEFT of Paradise, and Discovers a few Survivors, they Leave to Find where David and the Renegades have gone, they are Sworn to Destroy him and the Renegades and Prevent them from Destroying all they had Created,  One Elder asks what about the other THREAT?

EARTH, they say they will DEAL with Earth Once they have Ridden the Scourge that is David and the Renegade Engineers and their Horrors.

We would see David go and Create something SIMILAR to the Xenomorph and by seeing HOW we would get CLUES to HOW the Original came to be.  Now there was about 3 Variants of this kind of Idea that Differ to Degree... but it SHOWS you can go FAR FAR AWAY from Earth, and have HUMANS and get Past the Language Barrier.

I agree, some extra screen time would have been preferable. But what's done is done. It's still a great movie.

Like the reviewer, I'd dearly love to see the awful mess that David creates on his new world.

hm, didn't know aliens liked pinball

Going back to this SCENE/TOPIC then it is NO-WAY to indicate as i have said before that this Scene is on EARTH, it is just to show HOW the Engineers go about Sacrificing themselves to ALLOW for their DNA to Create Life.

It is UNLIKELY that the Earth is the ONLY place they have Visited and Seeded Life and Evolved Life, and in CONTEXT to the PLOT then we cant be 100% Sure that Mankind had Originated from some other PLACE and we had been taken to Earth in the Distant Past.

Ridley Scott had indicate that the Earth had LIFE before Mankind and the Engineers would go around and RE-SET their Worlds when they become Displeased or Concerned about their Creations.

Could the Engineers had played a ROLL in the Destruction of the Dinosaurs... i think YES in Context to the Plot/Franchise, could the Earth have had a Intelligent Civilization before Mankind that the Engineers also had taken CARE of so that they can USE the Earth to Seed/Take Humans too?  Again i think thats POSSIBLE.

I think also we cant RULE-OUT that some Engineers Decide to USE their Creation Tool to Create and Evolve Life on some Worlds and Experiments that are something that THEY have NOT been Authorized to do so. They likely have a Ritual Culture some kind of Religion/Cult and WAYS/RULES to Follow, but this does-not mean that ALL of the Engineers would FOLLOW these WAYS and so some could want to go and DO their OWN thing, to Create their Own Society or Sub-Species.

I have said this quite a BIT (Not Thousands of Times) it seems the Engineers are into Creation of Life in a BIG WAY, and that to them its seen as a HONOR and Privilege to DONATE their Body/Soul into Creating something so that they are Immortalized to a Degree in that their Donation means that the LIFE that comes from their Sacrifice is THEM/THEIRS.

The Engineers Plot is BOLD and Potentially has MANY ways it could be Explored or Interpreted and THINGS are NOT set in STONE and so they can CHANGE the Back Ground for the PLOT as they wish or EVEN just leave it AMBIGUOUS.

I think the BASIC way to look at the OPENING SCENE is that YES it could be Earth, it could be Planet 4 and it could be ANY Number of other Worlds, it is just to SHOW us HOW the Engineers begin their Seeding/Evolution of Worlds and this RITUAL has likely been Carried out on Countless Worlds across the Galaxy and BEYOND.

Nice to Revisit some OLD TOPICS...

And as the Replies on here were BEFORE we got Alien Covenant, what we see is that INDEED we have David bringing and Raining HELL on those Engineers.

This made LOGICAL Sense for David as he had become FREE i am sure he would NOT want to be sent Back to Earth to be Harvested for Information then FACTORY RESET.  And he has some NO-SO Fond Memories of the LAST TIME he had met a ENGINEER, he would want some kind of BACK UP PLAN and Protection and so its likely he had Mentioned to Dr Shaw they would be BETTER OFF to take the SHIP with its PAYLOAD as a Insurance Policy.

For David he is a Survivor, he is FREE and would WANT to remain this way and LIVE! and so he LIKELY saw the ONLY GUARANTEED way that HE and Dr Shaw could Survive would be to NUKE! those Engineers with their OWN WEAPON.

Then BANKING on the Engineers having some kind of Repository of Knowledge and History that he could then go through and maybe GET some Answers for Dr Shaw.

Those Engineers seemed to NOT even Suspect what was going to Happen to them, YET they are AWARE of those Ships and so its a Question of are these Engineers Welcoming Back their WAR HEROES... and are so Naive to think there is NO-WAY anyone else could Obtain those Ships or that the Engineers do-not NEVER bring Ships to their Civilized Worlds Carrying any PAYLOADS.

Or do the SHIPS have another more Ritual Use for those Engineers?