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archaeoj
MemberOvomorphApr-21-2012 9:07 PMI'm an old timer with this franchise. Saw the original Alien release BEFORE the Dallas cocooning scene had been deleted. Saw Aliens on the largest theatre screen in the Southeast in Atlanta. I thought they were both terrific films, creative, cutting edge and well executed ideas. I have perhaps NEVER been as disappointed as I was after the first time I viewed Alien3. I was aware of the script difficulties, etc. but I held out great hope for the film. But I felt betrayed, as the director violated the rules of the universe set up in the prior films by having an embryo implanted in Ripley. I've been on multiple forums over the years hoping to find someone who just might have a workable idea for how this came about and there's never been one, and probably never will. I thought I'd raise the question again since there's a new generation claiming the excellence of the film series. I'm open to any creative ideas as long as they don't defy logic (which the film, in my opinion, did in a big way.) Meanwhile, I am so psyched for Prometheus and I am hoping to see something brand new that will push the concept in new directions.
40 Replies

Gavin
MemberTrilobiteApr-24-2012 10:13 AMThe best way to link Aliens with Alien 3 is by re-releasing each of the films as Final Editions, in which, as I said before, each film would have additions/amendments/subtractions to bring the films up to date both within themselves and as a series in the following four ways...
1. Pacing
2. Effects
3. Narrative
4. Continuity
To make Aliens-Alien 3 work is by doing the following...
1. Aliens - in the scene when the Marines first discover the Facehuggers, the original line says "2 are alive, the rest are dead". Amendment - "4 are alive, the rest are dead".
2. Alien 3 - At the beginning an egg is shown nearby the hypersleep pods. Subraction - cut footage showing the eggs.
Therefore we can assume that the other two Facehuggers were stored onboard the drop-ship, courtesy of Bishop following an executive order from Burke, while Ripley was rescuing Newt.

Cervantes
MemberOvomorphApr-24-2012 2:36 PM@ [b]snorkelbottom -[/b] It's such a pity that the intro. scenes for ALIEN 3 ended up contradicting what we'd seen and heard during ALIENS, and the small amendments you mentioned in your previous post would definately have smoothed things better between the two movies.
But I still have a few problems with certain things to do with this which I'll post up later here when I've more time.

Spartacus
MemberOvomorphApr-24-2012 2:40 PMWhen Bishop was preparing to crawl down the service tunnel to pilot the dropship down, he told Ripley that it would take (in total) approx 3 hours. Earlier in the movie, it was established that the place was going to blow up in approx 4 hours. This left Bishop an extra hour during which he could have: fetched 2 eggs and hidden them. While Ripley was rescuing Newt, Bishop could've then returned to pick up the eggs and put them in the drop ship. He'd then fly back to pick up Ripley and give some bogus story to cover up why he was late.
[b]BOOOYAAAAAAA[/b]

Svanya
AdminPraetorianApr-24-2012 3:04 PMThe Queen was never IN the Sulaco, she just hitched a ride on the landing gear. Sadly the production on Alien 3 was a mess and the whole movie was cut and re-written so many times it's hard to know what is true. It certainly does make it look like Bishop is to blame for the eggs being there though, but I believe that is only due to the issues with the editing of Alien 3.

Guest
MemberOvomorphApr-24-2012 7:55 PMHere's the rest of what I wanted to add now -
This notion of 'Bishop' (under 'company' orders from 'Burke') being responsible for sticking a couple of eggs on the Sulaco at some point is certainly interesting...because it gives a real dark edge to the 'Bishop' android which would contradict the seemingly benign nature of his rescue of Ripley and Newt, and his saving of Newt from being sucked out of the Sulaco...
But unfortunately, as abordoli asked - Where exactly did 'Bishop' get these eggs in the first place, to do this?
As snorkelbottom said, it's stated in ALIENS that there are only 2 'facehuggers' left alive, and presumably these are the ones used for the attack on Ripley and Newt, which get shot and killed...
And the 'eggs' the Queen laid certainly looked like they were all destroyed thanks to Ripley and the subsequent explosions...and since the Queen was now 'egg-sac'-less when she emerged from the 'Dropship's landing gear, then she certainly didn't produce the 'egg' seen in the ALIEN 3 intro.
There is no mention of 'eggs' surviving in ALIENS , but I guess it could be argued that we just never heard/saw some examples of these, and that some were kept seperately from the 'facehugger' tanks we saw...
But my problem with this whole idea is this - Even if 'Burke' had supposedly organised for 'Bishop' to store a couple of 'unseen-by-us' eggs nearby the Sulaco's hypersleep pods...surely that would have been a little unwise, considering that 'Burke' himself would have had to enter one of the hypersleep pods too (had he survived) for the journey home?
Of course, perhaps he hadn't thought things through too well...
Nope, I'll stick to 'imagining' that ALIEN 3 (and ALIEN RESURRECTION) were merely 2 feverish 'nightmares' dreampt up by Ripley during her sleep home, to explain away the inconsistencies. I find it easier than anything else.

Cervantes
MemberOvomorphApr-24-2012 8:00 PMThe notion of the 'Bishop' android (complying to 'Company' orders from 'Burke') being responsible for placing a couple of eggs nearby the Sulaco's hypersleep pods is certainly interesting...because it gives a real dark new edge to our view of 'Bishop' which CONTRADICTS his supposedly benign rescue of Ripley and Newt, and saving Newt from being sucked out of the Sulaco...
However, as abordoli asked - Where did the eggs come from in the first place, for them to have been hidden near the Sulaco's hypersleep pods anyway?
As snorkelbottom said, it's stated in ALIENS that there are only a couple of 'facehuggers' alive still...and these are the ones that are presumably let loose on the sleeping Ripley and Newt, before the marines kill them...
...and it's likely that the ones that the Queen laid were ALL destroyed by Ripley and the subsequent explosions in her lair. And the Queen can't have laid any more afterwards, because she'd ripped off her 'egg-sac' to escape the fire before managing to get onto the 'Dropship's landing gear...
However, I guess it could be argued that perhaps some ADDITIONAL 'unseen-by-us' egg specimens were stored somewhere nearby the 'facehugger' specimens in the the containment tanks seen in ALIENS...and a couple of these 'unseen' eggs could have been the ones used by 'Burke' and 'Bishop'...
[b]But my problem with this whole scenario is this -[/b] Even if 'Bishop' could have somehow taken then placed a couple of eggs in the Sulaco without them hatching...why would 'Burke' get 'Bishop' to hide a couple of eggs beside the hypersleep pods anyway, considering HE would have to be in one of the pods for the journey home too?...as the highly dangerous eggs would surely have posed a great risk to him also, when he was asleep?...
Perhaps 'Burke' didn't think that through very well?... On the other hand, it could be argued that 'Burke' had a special, seperate hypersleep pod well away from the other pods...
Either way, these are just 'imaginary' ways to explain the inconsistencies that are there onscreen...and I'd personally prefer to stick with my own 'imagined' notion of ALIEN 3's intro. (along with the rest of it, and ALIEN RESURRECTION too) merely being the feverish 'nightmares' of Ripley's hypersleep 'dreams'...as this explains the many unexplained inconsistencies and general silliness that came after ALIENS in a way that satisfies me the most!

The Company
MemberOvomorphApr-25-2012 8:38 PMIn Aliens, newt gets captured and cocooned........
There may indeed have been only one egg on the sulaco.

Moonrunner
MemberOvomorphMay-09-2012 10:36 AMI agree that the design of the queen was not real good. The only time it was believable was when it was on that white cargo door with the yellow forklift on top of it. As for Alien 3, the best we can get is the director's cut, where Ripley burns up before the chestburster arrives among other improvements. As for the series, there are two categories: Alien and all the other films afterwards.
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