Concerning the Androids

@amber....zero facts and all opinions in both our statements wont get us anywhere in this. it appeared you had become irritated at the thought that i didnt find Ash as human as perhaps you did because of "Oh, no-no! Of course he did!" I think its fair to assume your use of exclamation marks as fluster (after all, i AM human, and can only interpret tone through text so well ;)). My opinion holds pretty firm. Nothing you argue is really that far from what I've stated, it seems more like we're arguing hot to warm than to cold. And using David to compare, again, is futile...we've seen what from him? 3 minutes? And Ash wasnt in promo commercials a month before Alien came out. I'd be surprised if we dont see more similarities in them that you expect. That they were suprised by Ash's "sophistication" is merely an opinionated interpretation of their reaction, which is fine. But the only thing we can assume, knowing what little we know about David and Ash, and the gap of evolution between them, is that androids before Ash were made the same, and presented to the population in a way that it was obvious. That Ash was inserted into the crew incognito was easy enough, IMO, simply because he wasnt the typical model, or noone said "this is your android, Ash", as maybe would be protocol. Ash appeared very robotic to me, its that simple, and really indisputable, as its my opinion. If i stated it more 'matter of fact', my apologies, as thats not really fair, just as if you held that I were 'wrong'. If the year were 1979, the day before Alien came out, and you lined the cast up in front of me and said "One of these is an android, who is it?", without hearing them speak a word or knowing anything about the story, I would have immediately pointed to Ash. I realize that this doesnt have anything to do with his actions and behavior, just more a tribute to the casting of his character.

All good points mate. When a universe gets expanded in this way inconsistencies creep in

Easy answer, but dont know if its right? Maybe because of Davids actions. Droids are no longer used for 50years as they cant be trusted. Thus, Ripley surprised......

The David androids all look exactly alike, so while they appeared human, they werent hard to spot, and noone would get suspicious while Weyland-Yutani creates other models. I always expected that Ash was a unique design, and there were others like him, all designed uniquely, or at least after their creators, to be spies/infiltrators (we may see the first of these infiltrators in this film). Ripley didnt seem to be foreign to hooking up Ash's head so they could get some answers out of him in Alien, and they never elude to not knowing that androids exist, only that they were surprised that he was one. in Alien 3, Lance Hendrickson is the android at the end, though he denies it to try and gain Ripleys trust (and it took me years of watching to determine if he was in fact another Bishop). when he's hit in the ear with the pipe its pretty clear he cant be human, and i think you see the milky fluid coming out of the wound. it seems that the Bishop androids are made in the image of Charles Bishop Weyland. thats the only think i liked about AvP (everyone noticed in the scene when the girl goes in to talk to Weyland on the ship that he's sitting there doing the knife trick between his fingers with a pen?)

I suspect that as [i]jedi master[/i] has surmised, David is rather infamous after [i]Prometheus[/i], so even if it were not an official policy, humans would assume that there would not be any synthetix aboard the Nostromo. Ash could easily have been a one-off that was specifically designed and manufactured by Weyland(-Yutani) (and perhaps waiting in the wings to go xeno hunting) for the Nostromo mission. His physical appearance may never have been publicized in the way David’s is.

@sukkal...i said practically the same thing as was in the second part of your explanation. i do however like the idea that synthetics are no longer supposed to be created, and that the company is creating ones in different images so they cant be recognized....but, it doesnt really hold in Aliens when everyone else other than Ripley is aware and friendly with Bishop. Ripley isnt so surprised that there is a synthetic as she is pissed off to be in the same room as one after what happened with Ash. @Respect...if you remember, while Ash consumed food to fit in with the other crew, Bishop gave his food away to the other marines in the cafeteria at the beginning of Aliens.

What does the soldier call 'Call' ? Autod? Autoid? I love all the Alien franchise droids. [this is not an inviation to express your dislike for Alien Resurrection]

@chthon...couldnt find what Destafano calls Call, its not the same in the original script, where Joyner refers to her as an LM7 model, and goes into a little bit about how they ended the synthetic industry. [url=http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Alien-Resurrection.html]Your text to link here...[/url]

But why could it not just be a simple answer? You say why was it was such a surprise to Ripley that Ash was a droid because droids had been around for decades. Maybe she wasn’t surprised at the fact that it was, "a droid", at all: maybe she was actually surprised at the fact that [i]Ash[/i], was a droid? Because he seemed so [i]human?[/i] She was surprised at Bishop, not because he was a droid, but because he was a droid she hadn’t been told about - when she had spent months going to the trouble of telling people about the mess the last droid she had any dealings with caused and still they stuck another one in her face without telling her: to be honest, I'd be surprised, too. I don’t think Ripley was very surprised at all about Droid #3, she seemed to expect it, by then: and Ripley-clone seemed to not particularly care that much whatever the Hell Call thought she was, or wanted to tell her she was, or wanted to call herself. Ripley-clone honestly just seemed to be sick to death and pewking - empty, tired...so very sick: sick of stupid humans who never listened and kept trying the thing over and over; sick of the constant droids, sick of The Company with the cloning, the cloning; sick of the alien to the point of resignation. The alien, the alien; oh good God, now there's the Newborn to kill and I'm part of it now - Ripley-clone seemed sick of the whole damn thing. Is there [i]really[/i] anything wrong with the 'droids timeline?....

Could it not just be a simple answer?.. You say why was it was such a surprise to Ripley that Ash was a droid because droids had been around for decades. Maybe, she wasn’t surprised at the fact that it was, "a droid", at all: maybe, she was actually surprised at the fact that [i]Ash[/i], was a droid? Because he seemed so [i]human?[/i] She was surprised at Bishop, not because he was a droid, but because he was a droid she hadn’t been told about - when she had spent months going to the trouble of telling people about the mess the last droid she had any dealings with caused and still they stuck another one in her face without telling her: to be honest, I'd be a little surprised, too. I don’t think Ripley was very surprised at all about Droid #3, she seemed to expect it, by then: and Ripley-clone seemed to not be able to be surprised about anything - and to not particularly care all that much whatever the Hell Call thought she was, or wanted to tell her she was, or wanted to call herself, for that matter. Ripley-clone just seemed to be sick to death and pewking - empty, tired...so very sick: sick of stupid humans who never listened and who kept trying the things over and over; sick of the procession of droids; sick of The Company with their, "weapon" mentality; sick of the cloning, the cloning, the cloning; sick, sick, sick of it all to the point of resignation - sick of the alien. The alien, the alien; oh good God, now there's the Newborn to kill and I'm part of it. Ripley-clone seemed sick of the inevitability and futility of whole damn thing...humans, aliens, ALL of it. From that perspective, is there [i]really[/i] anything wrong with the 'droids timeline?....

@allin...as i mentioned before, a good explanation to ripley and the others ignorance to Ash being an android is not that he acted so human, because he really didnt, but simply because perhaps he was one of possibly many infiltration droids, not designed to look like the other Davids, or whatever model was out at that time. after taking his head off, they hook him up without much problem, almost like they are relatively familiar with his make up. Respect seems to have overanalyzed, or misinterpreted the Nostromo's crew's reaction to Ash.

@yhms He didn't act human? Oh, no - no! Of [i]course[/i] he did! I don't see how we are going to agree on this one, my friend? Look at Ash's manner compared to David 8 [which is the relevant point]? Ash was light years away from David 8's, slightly charming, "Robo-man", act? Ash played, "slightly superior and introverted human", to [i]absolute perfection.[/i] You just cannot imagine David 8 having bad breath and chewed fingernails. You absolutely can envisage Ash being sophisticated enough to mimic that and body-odour and farts on top of it. "Infiltration droids"?!..I must refuse it. The "ease" with which they hook him up is just a self-justifying interpretation and suggestive of nothing like their "familiarity"? We don't know how, "easy", it was - it looked more like they did the best they could, which gives the scene a very different colour. I do agree with you on the last bit...

@chthon; seriously, stop saying that, not everyone hates Alien Resurrection. :P Anyways, Call was an "Auton", an android built by androids. Her kind were too human and they were recalled, which lead to a massacre of sorts. Autons buried the android industry instead of reviving it. They were all unique as far as I know. Bishop was in the 3rd movie, he was a mess though, Ripley found him in the garbage dump. :( @yhms;Ash wasn't made by Weyland he was made by Hyperdine industries. For all anyone knows he could have been made specifically for that mission, because the company wanted the Xeno for themselves. Also, Ash and Bishop may not have had many or any copies made of them, physical looking copies anyways. And in Alien 3, Bishop II had red blood, like a humans. **Here is a useful link to a site that explains every intricacy of the Androids in the Alien series(Scroll to the bottom to see each different android; Ash, Bishop, Call, etc):Click--->[url=http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Synthetic]Best site for info about the Androids of the Alien universe[/url]

@amber...take it easy, we dont have to agree, and we wont, im standing pat. comparing David to Ash just means that Ash wasnt as robotic as David. part of what i love about Alien is going back and noticing all the different ways that you can catch Ash acting like an android. emotionless throughout the entire movie, other than a jovial wave and smile when kane and dallas and lambert leave for the derelict. Ash LOOKED human, and didnt do anything that SCREAMED android, but the reason they didnt suspect him is because...why should they? the first time you saw Alien you didnt notice just how monotone and bland Ash was? you should have...i did when i was a little kid. and as far as their "familiarity" with androids, they dont yell "what the hell is that!", they yell "Ash is a robot!" Its not the first time they've seen one, theres no argument there.

@yhms; I disagree, Ash is highly emotional, borderline neurotic at times. He jumps around, runs in place, chews on his nails and wrings his hands.

how many times have u needed to post that link Svanya? lol

@ Bella; A MILLIONBILLION! Seriously, if people read that they would have less questions. It's an awesome link. One person here refused to read it because some AVP stuff is on the site, the wikki. I mean, come on, it contains the whole Alien universe and like it or not AVP is there too. Oh look, I linked it again; Click--->[url=http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Synthetic]Best site for info about the Androids of the Alien universe[/url]

LOL geez i dont care for avp but im not ignorant/stubborn enough to let that stop me. that page is awesome, if it wasnt for that link i wouldnt know they made "pleasure" models, and thats very good to know!

@Belladonna; I know right? I could not understand it either, I just lol'd. That link should be put on the main site, srsly. It answers so many questions people have about the Androids. And WAIT, I linked it again! Click--->[url=http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Synthetic]Best site for info about the Androids of the Alien universe[/url]

lol, now your posts without the link look out of place! hehe. it SHOULD be on the main site, maybe BH will put it up!