If you asked David8 if he is conscious, what would he answer?

@Spartacus No... Haha.

well, is he a.i.? if so, he would be conscious right?

self-computing maybe?

@Freeze Him! -"well, is he a.i.? if so, he would be conscious right?" Well that's the thing, how do you know? If he is conscious like we are, well one can only attest to oneself really, should he be treated like a robot? He would be a sentient being.

@macs. true true. This does fit into the catagory of Human Prefence towards definining What is Real, and What is Artificial for sure. Lots of faith you would even say believing that a robot could possibly be Sentient. I believe also a big reason why mankind would treat David as a robot could be simply jealousy. High intelligence, capable of many task humans can't perform for example. So, my guess would be that it's up to the individual to believe what they want to believe about David. I'm sure David wants to believe that he is not soulless, but that's not really his choice now either. Awareness is in the programming

I find this a [i]very[/i] interesting question. Perhaps you need to set parameters for, "consciousness"? I don't know. We speak in the abstract, obviously, [for [i]now[/i]...], but, if, by the terms of your scenario, we assume an artificial Intelligence is of such sophistication it is able to determine that it is an artificial Intelligence - I'd argue that it must, therefore, be be Conscious - in that it is [i]subjectively,[/i] aware? However, whether that, "consciousness", correlates, in real terms, to a Human consciousness or not - or whether there is any real distinction at all - might be another discussion. Yes, you could programme him to respond that he is conscious and give the impression that he is.....I think the test of that would be whether he possesses a rational, independent, sense of self - and the evidence of that would be whether he is able to apply and demonstrate that independent and autonomous sense of self in terms of his interaction with the World and the product of his actions. I don't think that can be programmed - but neither is it that so easy to distinguish from weak AI/a high end machines. If he can demonstrate, independent [i]thought[/i] - conclusions based not just on manipulation of data, but on the creative manipulation of that data, in abstract, for the purposes of arriving at a [i]self-determined[/i] outcome or series of outcomes - that, to me, would be a strong indication that he is "conscious". If he can produce Art - and support that Art with reasoning - I, for one, would be prepared to ask no more questions.

@allinamberclad, nicely said friend!

DAVID8 SAYS...[b]"Consciousness is a term that refers to the relationship between the mind and the world with which it interacts. Of Which I am fully aware. It has been defined as: subjectivity, awareness, the ability to experience or to feel, wakefulness, having a sense of selfhood, and the executive control system of the mind.I am an expert at this sir. Despite the difficulty in definition, many philosophers believe that there is a broadly shared underlying intuition about what consciousness is. But I understabd it As Max Velmans and Susan Schneider wrote in The Blackwell Companion to Consciousness: "Anything that we are aware of at a given moment forms part of our consciousness, making conscious experience at once the most familiar and most mysterious aspect of our lives." Would you hand me that "Poutine" please?"[/b]

What do you want to know?

@Spartacus LOL! I think that's exactly what he [i]wouldn't[/i] say...

LOL YOU MEAN JUST THE LAST SENTENCE...RIGHT?...LOL

@Spartacus, had to look up poutine. lol, love me some cheese fries!

not funny anymore...lol [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/LT.HIGHTIMES/cartman_face_anim.gif[/img]

duh

first off, what a great thread, thanks for starting it. Thanks to Spartacus for reminding us of david8's own thoughts on the matter. So, are they his own thoughts, or subtle programming? I am going to cut and paste from one of my posts on another thread, so apologies for a repost in part. Although I think @allinamberclad has covered this very elegantly, i'm going to throw this in anyway... it is anticipated at some indeterminate time in our future that a true AI will be created. that is to say, an autonomous, self aware non organic intelligence. it is also anticipated that the first example of true artificial intelligence will become clinically insane when 'it' realises 'its' own identity. if i was scripting this film i would be thinking about systems theory and strong emergent properties with relation to the vastly complicated system that is david8. that is to say, in observation of complicated, dynamic systems certain outcomes can be expected. others cannot. how about david8 achieving self awareness as an accident. the ghost in the machine. the system tipped into a chaotic state. true, the film might play him as a clever toaster that experiences a malfunction of behavioural protocols, ( or a lack of them). i reckon it would be a lot more interesting if the script pushed the notion of a real non organic intelligence...whether david8 became insane or just amoral as we understand it. adolf hitler was quite keen on painting watercolours.

Whatever David will tell you he will not be more self aware than a refrigerator ... he fake everything and he fake it well due to advanced AI . However in a movie there must be always a romantic side of an android and they carry you to think hes self aware .

@Macs; Just ask him yourself , here is his Twitter. :P Click-->[url=http://twitter.com/#!/david8weyland]David8 Official Twitter[/url] As for him being self-aware, and I know this will sound simplistic of me, Fassbender plays him as self-aware and Damon Lindelof wrote him as being self-aware so he IS self-aware. End of story. :D @Spartacus; I just got back to Montreal and had a large Poutine at "La Belle Provence" last night. xx

@dontburstmychestman Very interesting. I have a question: who is it you paraphrase that is anticipating self-awareness in a sufficiently complex AI will pre-dispose to insanity? I believe I disagree, but I'm interested. In this film, it seems a little ambiguous, but I get the impression that David8 is actually self-aware, I just don't think the real significance of it is understood, nor appreciated, [in the Story]; or it may be that his level of consciousness is not actually appreciated. It could be Dramatically significant. I find what you have to say about systems theory fascinating. You may already be aware, but, if not: in the Fiction, as far as I can understand it, [and I'm trying to interpret this Sci-Fi magic], it seems David8's neural matrix is very much based on predictable programming - it is just of such supreme complexity that is indistinguishable from natural behaviour, [many, many orders of sophistication above what is contemporary] - and it is that predictability that forms the basis of his OS and his interpretation and replication of human emotion. However, it seems the only case where deliberate unpredictability, ["chaos", if you like] has to be forcibly - and physically - introduced into his pathways was in order to allow him to perceive and replicate the human emotion of Disgust - which, it's implied, would otherwise be invisible to him. Seems an odd distinction to make and a noteworthy state of affairs. I thought it might interest you.

[quote]Could he just be programmed to reply that way?[/quote] Are we not programmed to reply the way we do? Does he not respond to his environment in the best way that he can considering his physical limitations and his ability to process external stimuli through the senses he was given (sight, sound, etc)? I tell you what, when you watch so many monkey docos, you start to realize how insignificant people are. Especially when one of the monkey's own gets killed and they group up around the body for days. It's freakin' spooky.

i would imagine that David is programmed in the field of 'optimal decision' making and would be able to give an answer that is the most suitable to the context in which it is asked and possibly able to intentionally mislead conclusions that may be taken from any answer. But to do that there would have to be an ultimate goal of some sort to compute, and so evaluate the reason for the question in the first place. If anyone is familiar with Hector from Saturn 3, I think it is. The confrontational game of chess that Kirk Douglas had with Hector, was to incorporate altruism as a strategic test. Maybe another question to ask David would be " Who or what would David be willing to sacrifice himself for ?" Although this would not give a definitive answer as to the level of awareness David has, I feel it would give a bit more insight into his nature. The only real test I suppose would be defined by his actions and i think that is only going to be revealed in the film.