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Kundalini, Enlightenment and the uncivilized behaviour of the Engineers

Windood

MemberOvomorphMay 06, 20121131 Views13 Replies
Having read a lot of comparitive religion, and wacky books, the uncivilized behaviour of the Engineers is something I have found intriguing about the film. There are a number of different spiritual systems in the world, that have as a possible goal, enlightenment. Much more is known about this now than in the 50s/60s when the ideas started to disseminate into the West via alan watts and many others came back from the orient etc. There seems to be two distinct schools, in each culture, or system. Typically they get called the Fire Method or the Water method. the Fire method is quick, i think symbolically you are meant to see how quick fire burns a path through something, to the goal. Whereas with the water method, water is slower, gentler. The speed of the method(s) is important. If someone is using the water methods they have time to meditate and work on other aspects of their psyche/mind, this is taught at an early stage as methods of meditating on loving kindness. There is less emphasis on this in the fire methods. Kundalini is a process of working with the bodies energy and moving it in arcs and circles around the body to gain some control over it. The final stage is moving it into the brain. This rewires the bodys endochrine system and is alleged to produce a diferent person. A complete person. What we are all capable of The water method produces the same results, but in a more benevolent person. The jedi/sith in star wars seem to mimic this idea, and its in taoism/buddhism. If anyone wants to read up on it there are books by glenn j morriss, mantak chia, and buddhist systems like dzogchen, vajrayana. Onto the film..... the enlightened person, based on whether he/she used a particular method, sees things in a very different way to that in which others do, and the fire people are generally considered to be capable of atrocities, as they are more prone to seeing others as things of no consequence, the water method people generally take an attitude more akin to that in which we think holy people will take, to a degree. yet both see reality and nature in a different way. What i find intresting is that Ridley has taken some aspects of this evolved being idea, and i wouldnt mind knowing if all Engineers thought the same way regarding the species they've created, or if there were differeing attitudes towards their creations, possibly causing schisms.
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PROVO
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Hey! an interesting thread in the nick of time. Seems like it Works Well with this matieral, or maybe better with Star Gate
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dallas!dallas!
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Interesting idea. If the engineers are all of the same type, who would be the water alternative? I would think you would have some kind of alien life akin to those from Solaris or something. But if the engineers are the only show in the universe, then there could be some kind of schism. On a side note, from recent interviews with cast members, it is clear that among the humans we have a a fire and water element with Holloway being the fire and Shaw being the water. And when the Prometheus myth is centered around fire, I can't help thinking Holloway is going to be much more important to the story than I might have originally thought.
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Windood
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Agreed Dallas. The two methods (to me), kind of indicate a persons lust for the goal. But the different ideas they have to their world and its people afterwards are interesting too. the 'fire' method people can do the loving kindness meditations and so on afterwards, but are more prone to psychological issues and frequently end up in asylums apparently. it would just be interesting to me if the so called 'uncivilized behaviour' of the engineers was rooted in something to do with their outlook on life and nature in general. i can only imagine they would see us in a similar light to how we would see an intelligent rat. Though an Engineer with a different value system may want the 'rat' to have its own autonomy and evolve without further interference, or wrath, of the engineers.
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Windood
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Cheers Provo :-)
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dallas!dallas!
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I wonder if those of the "lower vessel" Buddhist practice would be akin to the water based method. They don't seem to be very well liked by many in the west (or at least looked on with the same warmth) for their apparent detachment from society and any Bodhisattva goal. What this leads me to wonder is: if there were a schism between the engineers, would those who disagree with the wrath of the gods even intervene on the humans' behalf or just detach and accept? Also, I just remembered this was one of the ideas tossed about for Yoda in the prequel trilogy. That he knew what was coming and in fact detached from any desire to stop it. Was thrown out (along with a million other ideas). But it would have been interesting.
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PROVO
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I think, the engineers mind their business until the rats try to Cross them. Then comes the wrath and all hell breaks loose.
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Windood
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it is mirrored in many ways, take maufacturing. Wester manufacturing went on the basis of higher investment in machinery for manufacturing, state of the art plants etc, in order to get productivity gains, and the japanese used much more simple and cheap kaizen personal producitvity ideas. They won. The idea of RS mentioning prometheus has a possible sequel tells me there must be more to the Engineers than we know already, a sequel would have to take us there i would imagine. First Contact with a more advanced civilisation never seems to go too well for the less advanced civilisation, but i wonder what would be the focus of a sequel. I suppose we'll have an idea on June 1st.
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Windood
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Well, at the end of the film it looks like someone wants to exterminate us as a species (there's a very low possibility its David, as he has an ability to use the ship, and we don't know when or who knocks his head off, could be a stowaway on the ship. maybe its an Engineer who does it?i'm digressing). Thats a huge decision, to exterminate a species, and whoever makes it must be using some kind of mental process we don't have. there isn't any time for hand wringing and deliberating on it in this film, someone just decides thats what needs to be done, whether its david or an engineer (i'm 99% sure its an engineer but think it would be more interesting theme wise if it was david and an engineer rescued us, that would lead to a sequel as we develop a desire to meet more of these engineers??) So, in short, the wrath has to come from a non-human way of looking at the value of human life.
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PROVO
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A rescue Engineer you say, we'll I'll be damned. BTW, there's Nothing human about this film.
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Windood
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I just thought it would be a good surprise, certainly the way people talk on here there won't be any, and i don't think thats the case. Was just reading a post earlier where someone was mentioning that Kubrick wanted HAL to have a nervous breakdown when confronted with his own fallibility, i can see Fassbender being able to pul that off pretty well after watching Shame. And think it would segue into a sequel quite nicely. Am wondering if when Shaw says "we were so wrong" she is referring to the engineers, or someone else? Roll on June :-)
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want-to-see-prometheusNOW!
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That's a very interesting post, windood. An enjoyable read.
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PROVO
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Yes, Roll on. I guess you don't play with fire. We'll see if it gets that disappointing PG trash or not.
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Windood
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Thanks want-to-see-prometheusNOW!, it must have been a fluke :-)

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