Shaw: Parallels with Eve?

@sukkal My dislike of Hollaway crystalised after I saw the "Landing Sequence" clip. It's been a slow build. First with the sandals; then with his shemagh...now, he's the, "Check it out - Ima just cock my leg up on the console during landing. You like that?....My crotch?...", guy. I can hardly wait for him to start suffering.

I completely agree. Respectful discussion of ideas is the highest form of mental exercise.

[sukkal stares into the terrifying snarling maw of dogmatic differences and turns to go find another topic. ;•) One about one of those (very) high colonic cobras should be safe enough...] EDIT: But seriously... There seems to be little controversy over Holloway's douchey-ness. RE: Eve's innocence: How innocent was she really if your dogma includes [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination]predestination[/url]? Oh my goodness! Free will. Ahh! [[url=http://www.samharris.org/free-will]Sam Harris is very down on that of late.[/url] And, he and Clavin share very little in common.] A LOT of Christians are harder on Eve than they are on Adam about The Fall. That's for sure. At least traditionally. I think we need a whole different BOARD for this topic. ;•)

Tempting... Off topic though.. Gotta clear it with the OP. In a less dogmatic bent, it would appear that Ridley dipped into most religions for the background of this movie so that the premises would seem universal.

[quote=Myrddin365][i]...it would appear that Ridley dipped into most religions for the background of this movie so that the premises would seem universal.[/i][/quote] YES. At least to a certain degree. But, this is where I hope we get some [u]complexity[/u] and not just "The Engineers are evil (= they are "demonic"). Shaw certainly mirrors Eve in some ways, but she might also mirror Mary in others. It's still to early to say.

Sukkal - It's all interesting to me! The fact that we, as fans, can have a civilised chat about this sort of thing in the context of the film, I find wonderful and I'd like to think that this is the sort of thing RS would like to achieve with the film. I agree Myrddin, there are a lot of different influences in this picture, I just picked up on the Eve one most because it seemed quite clear to me.

A more appropriate Christian parallel than Mary would be the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whore_of_Babylon]whore of Babylon.[/url] this is not to imply that she is evil, just that she is the mother of an abomination who falls prey to a great beast.

@sukkal If it came down to a choice between moral absolutes and moral relativism, where would the Nazis fit in?.....were they totally evil, or is it a matter of perspecitve: "I was just following orders"....or "I had no idea what was going on, just down the road at Auschwiitz"....? Nazi society was nothing, if not complex.

Or how about Tiamat? Who on one hand was a tranquil and serene creator, but on the other a terrible destroyer of life?

Morals are absolute. humans are subjective. Good or evil as a whole tends to get defined by where your shade of grey falls on the bell curve, at least by societal standards. I don't think I like society's standards.

[quote=DippyBird][i]Sukkal - It's all interesting to me! The fact that we, as fans, can have a civilised chat about this sort of thing in the context of the film, I find wonderful[/i][/quote] It is wonderful when it happens. I have to say that some of us here are better at it than others and I'm not giving myself top marks, mind you. ;•) The parallels with Mary or perhaps even her COUSIN might be even closer, though in a much more twisted fashion. Keep in mind that Shaw's first name is [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_(biblical_figure)]Elizabeth[/url]. We don't know what Cuddles’ role is in the plot yet. Is s/he John the Baptist? Is the Engineer Goliath and is there a very different outcome for this David than that one?

Tiamat is a fascinating example. All a matter of perspective. How would we look back on Shaw as a race if she gave birth to our doom, regardless of her original intentions

Exactly my point Myrddin, perhaps that would be a better perspective to take, rather than a comparison with Eve or her ilk - but again this is all conjecture!

@artyoh — The Nazis collectively were an abomination. Hitler was clearly quite disturbed and lots of others around him were willing for his insanity to take the blame for their truly evil agenda(s). But, for all the atrocities there are always the stories of redemption within the ranks too. So, yes, lots of complexity. But for me, only by digging into it, the nasty, awful, smelly guts of it can we really understand how it was allowed to happen. The US was complicit for far too long. We interned Japanese-American citizens here and took away their homes, and futures too. I just look at these cultural phenomena (like films based even in fiction) as opportunities to get people THINKING. I hope that this movie will have its fair share of "Unicorns" too.

I believe John the Baptist and Jesus are benevolent characters who wish to better mankind and his relationship with God. It's cognitively difficult and emotionally unpleasant for me to equate them with what is wriggling after it's cut from Shaw's defiled womb.

Agreed Myrddin... I have problems with that one myself, as a woman...

There may not be any deliberate scriptural parallels in this movie......at least, I hope not. The most interesting questions are universal; not limited to any particular faith or scriptural tradition.

@Myrddin365 I agree with you 100%. But, all I'm saying is that we still don't know what the ultimate meaning of "We were so wrong" is IN THIS FILM. I'm sure that Ridley would not take offense at someone saying of the film it was "cognitively difficult and emotionally unpleasant" for me to experience. I doubt seriously that the the elements of the backstory are as "upside down" as Cuddles representing John the Baptist in some twisted fashion, but I don't know. As soon as an aesthetic like Giger's is introduced and so heavily relied upon and the entire premise of the film is diametrically opposed to traditional religious narratives (by that I mean "contemporary and mainstream"), I have no idea where the symbology is coming from and what happened to it on its way to the screen.

I get that artyoh, I kind of hope that as well. I was merely pointing out an observation that I had made, it's almost a subversion of those traditions IMO

Agreed sukkal, it's just interesting to have a wee 'noodle' and see what we can come up with! I certainly think it's been an intriguing discussion so far!