Forum Topic
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Gavin
MemberTrilobiteJun-12-2012 11:11 AMThere seem to be a lot of scientifically minded members on these forums therefore I am inviting them, and any other members that genuinely which to participate in this discussion (which will probably get heavy, forewarned is forearmed) into this thread to discuss my "Maverick" scientific theory.
Rather than post the entire theory in one big long, tedious and complex post I will begin with the following points present in my theory...
1. Our solar system was NOT born by the process described in [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accretion_theory]Accretion theory[/url].
2. Our planet, solar system, galaxy and universe are [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_universe]older[/url] than people think.
3. The [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang]Big Bang theory[/url] is "partially" wrong.
[u]The Facts[/u]
With that lot out of the way, now to parts of the actual theory itself...
1. The Earth, and all of the planets in our solar syatem are "extremely" slowly moving away from the sun.
2. All the planets in our solar system are orbiting around the sun in the same direction (revolution)...
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/Ecliptic_plane_3d_view.gif/220px-Ecliptic_plane_3d_view.gif[/img]
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Solarsystem3DJupiter.gif/220px-Solarsystem3DJupiter.gif[/img]
3. Which is also the same direction they are all (except Uranus and Venus) and the sun spinning on their own axis (rotation).
These 3 points are observable/proven FACTS, that disprove Accretion theory and through logic, deduction, reason and common sense open up an unexpected can of worms.
But before disclosing it to you, lets see if you can see what I see from these 3 observable/proven FACTS.
[u]Part One - The Small Picture[/u]
The Accretion Theory, in summary has two major flaws...
1. The composition of the outer planets Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune
2. The existence of only two "belts" - the asteroid belt and the kuiper belt.
If, according to Accretion theory our solar system was born from a cloud of dust, which through the process of accretion resulted in the 8 planets then how can the 4 outer planets be entirely composed of gas. And in relation to point 2, wouldn't there be more belts of debris left over from this process. Logically it just doesn't sit right.
I've teased you this point with observable and known facts (see above), and some of you may or may not have deduced were this initial part is heading. So rather than continuing to tease you I will reveal the first part of the theory...
...all the planets in our solar system were born from the sun...
[b]Stage 1[/b]
Billions of years ago our Sun ejected, or rather vomited, a small amount of its molten surface. Because of the Sun's rotation (and revolution - more of that in part two), gravity and the force of which "glob" was ejected it was held in orbit (revolution) around the Sun. The shape of this "Glob" became spherical beacuse of the aforementioned forces acting upon it, and because of the vast coldness of space the outer layer hardened into a crust. Being so close to the Sun, and because of its molten core, this small "glob's" crust would frequently crack emitting gases which would then be held within what is known as an exosphere.
Yes, you guessed it... Mercury is stage 1
It should be obvious now where this is heading for those of you that follow this thread so I'll summarise...
[b]Stage 2-4[/b]
As the stage 1 planet drifts further away from the Sun, it swells emitting more gases, that accumulate into an atmosphere, which helps "normalize" the temperature of the planets surface. This is stage 2 - Venus.
As the surface becomes hospitable and with the production of an ozone layer and liquid water, the planet becomes habitable. This is stage 3 - Earth.
With the gradual build of carbon dioxide and the gradual deteriation of the ozone layer liquid water is evaporated and/or frozen beneath the planets surface, which itself becomes barren and lifeless. This is stage 4 - Mars.
[b]Stage 5[/b]
No planet in our solar system is stage 5. Why? because stage 5 is more of an event than an actual stage...
With a barren, lifeless and volcanic and tectonicially dormant surface a stage 4 planet is dangerous. Underneath Mars' crust it is just like that of Earth - molten, hot and violent. But because the surface of Mars is dormant this heat and energy has no means to escape. Using the analogy of a balloon, Earth is like a balloon filled with many needle holes - with the right amount of air used to constantly fill the balloon it would retain its inflated shape, but Mars is a balloon with on holes, no means of escape - blow too much air into a balloon, what happens? That is stage 5.
[b]Stage 6[/b]
Stage 6 covers all 4 of the outer planets (Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune). Because of event "stage 5" all that would remain held by the planets gravity would be its atmosphere. In the explosion the crust and molten core would have been ejected forcefully out into space (asteroid belt, Kuiper belt), possibly impacting other worlds (extinction events) and/or getting caught in a planets gravitational hold (moons, rings). The planets atmosphere however, having less mass would not be able to maintain the velocity required to escape the planets gravitational hold, and ultimately would not be able to escape. But the force of the stage 5 explosion would result in the atmosphere reaching farther out than when the planet was solid.
Over the course of the planets existence as a stage 6, this atmosphere would be gradually pulled in toward the planets core, essentially causing them to slowly shrink before leading finally to the next stage.
[b]Stage 7[/b]
Most stage 7's exist within the Kuiper belt. Put simply they are are stage 6's that have continued to shrink, to the point where their gaseous atmospheres became condensed into a liquid surface, and then condensed further into a spherical piece of rock.
67 Replies
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Batchpool
MemberFacehuggerJun-17-2012 4:03 PMIf the earth is travelling a greater distance every year to go round the sun, that would suggest that the velocity of the earth is increasing. That being the velocity of the orbit round the sun, and not the axis upon which the earth turns.
I think I need to be careful not to expand any further on this answer just yet.
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NoXWord
MemberOvomorphJun-18-2012 6:53 AMJust a quick update. I haven't been very active lately, but I am keeping an eye on this thread every now and again. Still curious about your ideas.
Ridley Scott will eventually tell us how the Queen was born.
Right now we have the Deacon; coming soon the Mercury, the May and the Taylor.
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Gavin
MemberTrilobiteJun-18-2012 1:37 PMWell I think before I continue iapetus should reveal his piece of gravel.
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David 1
MemberOvomorphJun-18-2012 5:07 PMI wonder if this thread goes well with Beethovens 7th...
[img]http://www.lesvanites.fr/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/zardoz+head.jpg[/img]
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]
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iapetus
MemberOvomorphJun-18-2012 7:00 PMnah, you can carry on.
My piece of gravel was pretty much made of what you then took out of your hat. That is, the fact the gravity effect couldn't be considered to have acted constantly in an equal way or that Earth's speed of distancing must have been decreasing through time and hence 1Tera-yr was exaggerate.
A couple other 'minor' (erm) considerations but relatively similar so I guess you took them into account but it's hard to tell as keep us steering in the dark.
Will tell in due time if it seems needed. For now, I'm still following your lead but also trying to get what you were meaning with the 'various deifinitions of billion'? Was it between english and other languages?
You UK/US barbarians clearly need some sweet French influence and learn that metric/decimal system we invented ; )
Just to make things clear, to me (and in English equivalence to the Systeme International):
10^3 = kilo = thousand = 1000
10^6 = Mega = million = 1,000,000
10^9 = Giga = billion = 1,000,000,000
1^12 = Tera = trillion = 1,000,000,000,000
Can't believe how you guys (reverse-brained-anglo-saxon) again managed to mess with something we built so well... oh well...
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iapetus
MemberOvomorphJun-18-2012 7:19 PM@David 1
Am glad am not the only one posting non-sense here and there on this thread, was getting worried Snorkel would start taking the piss against me.
Keep on going, I will find something for next time he posts! we're gonna melt the dude down! bwahaha!!
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Lone
MemberPraetorianJun-19-2012 8:21 AMWHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSHHHHHH!
That's the sound of all this going straight over my head! Now I'm not an idiot....hmm.....hang on....... maybe I AM?
I have an artistic brain not a mathematical one.......just give us the short version Snorky.
PLEASSSEEEEEEEEEEE
"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger
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David 1
MemberOvomorphJun-19-2012 9:07 AMMath has always been a problem to me because I don't understand the language in it self. I look at an equation and I can't tell what the equation is talking about.
Wich in it self is odd since I have a Philosophical background. I should be more carring about math and I'm not [I guess there are a whole lot of philosophical schools dealing with cosmology, Ethics, Metaphysics and whatnot that I'm more inclined to, but funny enough the math ones never gave me a boner].
So here's my interpretation of the dilema:
The Earth moves away from the Sun but eventualy the Sun will expand and swallow the 4 inner planets before becoming a White Dwarf. Hence we can say that the Earth is get away and getting close at the same time [although that is a semantics fallacy]
But please do explain me what about Uranus and Venus.
If Venus is tilted in it's poles that could mean that something on the planet or outside the planet made it tilt [i.e. a gravity shift/pull from inside the planet or outside the planet]
As for Uranus I can only speculate that it's counter-rotation is due to the same principle: something inside the planet or outside the planet made it cournter-rotate.
GOD I WISH I COULD UNDERSTAND MATHEMATICS LANGUAGE
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]
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xenodochy
MemberOvomorphJun-19-2012 10:45 AM@Snorkelbottom
Do you want us to bear in mind which website this is and not get stoned like Cronos?
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Gavin
MemberTrilobiteJun-19-2012 12:00 PMAll will start to become clear later on guys when I unveil part 1 of the theory.
@ xenodochy, I am sharing this theory here amongst friends and those interested in the questions of the universe.
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xenodochy
MemberOvomorphJun-19-2012 1:27 PM@Snorkelbottom
Sorry, I was just asking if the theory ties in with the Greek story of Cronos as that appears to be about planetary observations.
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Gavin
MemberTrilobiteJun-19-2012 1:29 PMFill us in xenodochy, I'm not familiar with Cronos' theory...
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xenodochy
MemberOvomorphJun-19-2012 5:34 PM@Snorkelbottom
Here goes:
Cronos, leader of the Titans and father of the Greek gods and goddesses, when told that he would be deposed by his son, just as he had deposed his father, Uranus, by castrating him at the instigation of his mother, ate his children as soon as they were born to forestall the prophesy. Fortunately they remained alive in his stomach. When Zeus, the sixth child, was about to be born, Cronos’ wife gave him a stone wrapped in bandages to swallow and he did so, thinking it was his son. When Zeus grew up he gave his father an emetic and out came the stone followed by Zeus’ five brothers and sisters. Then the war between the Titans began, Cronos on one side and Zeus on the other, which Zeus and his brothers and sisters won.
Under the reign of Cronos, mankind knew a “Golden Age” but once Zeus took power life became very hard and humans degenerated. Other civilisations’ myths speak of different “Ages” of mankind.
Maybe these legends are really about how the solar system was formed and some truly cataclysmic events. As the theory mentions Uranus and Venus (the Roman name for Aphrodite, the Greek goddess said to be born from Uranus’ severed genitals) it occurred to me that there might be a link, especially given the Greek myth at the heart of the movie.
Uranus and Venus/Aphrodite are related in the myth and are the planetary exceptions in the theory for their unusual movements compared to the other planets.
Are they the flaw in accretion theory?
As for the math … Ouch! Going for a lie down now.
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iapetus
MemberOvomorphJun-19-2012 9:52 PMalso, for the record Cronos incarnates 'time' (yeah chronometer, chronology and all alikes are using it as prefix) so there goes the analogy/symbol of Cronos, as time eating its own children
I used to hate and be the worst you'd know at math, but it all goes better when you work first on figuring yourself your interest for the "story", whatever the problem is. Then, don't try to "read maths", just re-tell them in your own way. Dumb them down to whatever level you need, just like teachers did with apples to get us to count. Then, when you can actually visualize stuff, you're good. Oh well, am really no one to try and give tips on that, actually...
on a side note @xenodochy, "from Uranus' severed genitals" makes me like you and think you have some serious paraphiliae going on. [also yes, I'll stick with those jokes each time such an opportunity is given to me!]
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xenodochy
MemberOvomorphJun-20-2012 7:07 AM@iapetus
Perhaps the Greek Titans, Cronos and all, myths are all allegory where we’ve been given the key but not the lock.
Instead of children swallowed and sons and daughters re-emerging, read planets. This could mean that there was a particular planetary alignment developing over time (Cronos/Chronus). The Greeks knew five planets in their astronomy, the five visible to the naked eye: Mars, Mercury, Venus, Jupiter and Saturn.
Next, Cronos swallowed a “stone in swaddling clothes”. This was therefore something which resembled a planet so maybe it was our moon.
Zeus (the god of the sky) then fed Cronos an emetic. Paraphrase it as the sky formed because of the presence of the moon, redefining time.
There was then the war of the Titans, which, continuing the allegory, could indicate tremendous global upheaval following a moon’s arrival in orbit.
Zeus prevailed (we had sky – not the satellite broadcaster yet though) and mankind fell out of the Golden Age, where there were no seasons and everyone was happy; children springing up out of the ground. Perhaps this means that we had not yet realised how children are created (this knowledge being original sin?).
Zeus also brought the four seasons (not the 60s pop group or the hotel chain) and boy! was life tough under his rule: growing crops, building houses and struggling against the elements.
Perhaps Snorkelbottom’s theory reveals consequences or traces of the Greek’s allegory mathematically?
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Gavin
MemberTrilobiteJun-21-2012 4:32 AMLet the games begin...
...the OP has been updated with part 1 of the theory.
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David 1
MemberOvomorphJun-21-2012 4:41 PMThere are lots of Solar Sistems with gas giants closer to their sun(s) than being outter planets.
How does that fit in the overall theory?
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]
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Gavin
MemberTrilobiteJun-21-2012 4:49 PM@ David 1...
Depends upon the system - for example when our sun goes cuckoo in about 5 billion years it will most likely engulf the 3 inner planets, and maybe earth too... then you would have a system similar to what you just explained.
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David 1
MemberOvomorphJun-22-2012 6:38 AMnicely said. You sir, are a genious
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]
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Gavin
MemberTrilobiteJun-22-2012 7:26 AMI wouldn't go that far David 1, I just say what I see - just so happens that what I see isn't the currently accepted theory.
I'm not comparing myself here, but Einstein did the same with the phrase "space and time are relative to one another".
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FREEZE!
Co-AdminMemberOvomorphJul-17-2012 1:06 PMexcellent theory, going to come back and re-preview it later tonight for sure
[url=http://www.madmax4-movie.com/]Visit the Mad Max: Fury Road Forums today![/url]
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BLANDCorporatio
MemberOvomorphDec-19-2012 5:51 PM{EDIT: Oops, apparently this thread's been dead for a couple of months before dear ol' me indulged in necromancy. Well, what's done is done so I'll leave my rant here.}
Oh-kay.
Number one, if you are actually serious, this has no place here. Go to physicsforums dot org or whatever, and/or get this thing published. I have a suspicion as to why you likely don't, but that's merely me being paranoid.
Next.
Funny how in one thread claiming scientific aspirations, there's not one equation more complicated than simple division to see how many years ago a hypothetical scenario of Earth getting vomited out of the sun happened.
For example, you claim Accretion is wrong because fact 1 and 2. Ok. Show "me", your hypothetical scientifically minded reader, equations/simulation models that show why what we see is inconsistent with accretion.
I guarantee you none of us here- including you- is competent to follow those equations, but that's because you've chosen the wrong venue for them.
Whatever, let's postulate that accretion is wrong anyway, and follow your theory.
There is no mechanism you propose for material ejection from the Sun.
If such a mechanism existed, why the vast differences between the giants (they are -very different- from each other in terms of mass and composition) as well as between the giants and the inner planets?
How come the Earth's core hasn't cooled off long ago, since your spiral model (correction) retrodicts it's THOUSANDS of BILLIONS of years old?
Incidentally, how come there's "ANY" Uranium left on Earth at all? The estimation for the age of the Earth, for once a topic that's basic college level stuff, was done by noticing the ratio of Uranium/Uranium decay elements in ores, and knowing Uranium's half-life. If you dispute that estimate, you have a problem with pretty much the whole of nuclear physics. Assuming the Earth is thousand-billion-year-old, even long lived radioactive elements like Uranium and Thorium would be incredibly rare.
Next, there's no mechanism that would make a planet explode from the inside. Sorry, there isn't. There's no fusion going on, there's only heat that radiates off, 'harmlessly' as far as the planet itself is concerned. What happens to the surface aka eruptions is another matter.
It takes a lot of energy to pull a planet apart, and once apart, gravity will pull it back together. Your phase 5 contradicts basic physics.
Assuming your phase 5 happened, it doesn't explain why the gas giants are mostly gaseous. Your scenario says, boom, then the atmosphere was shot out into space, ergo, gas giant. Well, we can tell that the gas in Jupiter is most of its mass. That means the original planet was mostly gas too, anyway.
Phase 7, you claim that coldness and gravitational shrinkage compresses the giants eventually into the kind of objects we see in the Kuiper belt. Ok, but those objects are much less massive than gas giants. Where does the mass go, what chucks it there?
So maybe accretion theory has problems. I honestly do not know, and you aren't helping.
I can say that there's a huge other body of science that is inconsistent with the idea of planets being emitted, in thousand-billion-year spirals, from the Sun.
Rethink, revise, and after having done so, get thee to a physics publication so that you can get actual input.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Svanya
AdminPraetorianDec-19-2012 11:27 PM@BLANDCorporatio; No such thing as dead threads here. We actually encourage continued conversation on all threads. :)
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Gavin
MemberTrilobiteDec-20-2012 6:01 AM@ Blandcorporatio...
Firstly, the reason I posted this theory on this site is not because it is underdeveloped or trollish, as your "Number One" statement is probably referring to. I decided to show this theory with the members of this site, as many, being science fiction fans, also like to delve into real science. Nothing more, nothing less.
Secondly, your "rant" as you called it, mentions that should this be a serious theory there should be equations to back it up, simulations, models etc. While the rest of your post strangely attempts to pick apart my theory in the same basic "casual" fashion in which the theory is written.
I have not posted any equations, not because I don't understand them, but because most members would not understand such high level mathematics, this thread was written casually so that even a "moron" could understand what was being theorized, this being a science fiction fan site after all.
Finally, when reading your post it almost comes across as a personal attack as you constant reference the OP, myself - as in "you say this, you dont do that". When debating anything on these forums, please refrain from addressing the postee in such a manner, and please address the post subject manner - discuss the topic, not the individual whom posted the topic.
...
It doesn't really bother me that you assume that I do not know what I am talking about, this is not the first time such scientific arguments have arose on this site. Unlike most that partake in such "debates" I do not hold the scientific community in thehigh esteem in which they hold themselves - if a theory does not make logical sense, I look at the evidence, the truth, observations, provable known facts and use them to hypothesize a more plausible theory than that which is currently accepted.
The sun, and all the planets are spinning on their own axis, in the same direction (with the exception of Uranus and Venus), which is the same direction of which they orbit the sun, and all the planets are moving AWAY from the sun - the logic of those two FACTs states clearly that...
A) The planets were born from the sun
B) Therefore the Accretion Theory is wrong
The rest is simply means by which to explain what can be observed.
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BLANDCorporatio
MemberOvomorphDec-20-2012 6:52 AM[b]Snorkelbottom[/b], I dare say that if you think a statement of the kind "you say X, you don't do Y" is a personal attack when discussing a scientific theory, that is your problem, not mine. It is a statement of basic fact. If you are serious about pursuing a theory, then there's several things you absolutely must do. And the 'attacks' in my post only sketch a beginning to a remedy.
You seem to disregard the scientific establishment. Great. In that case, here's another statement of fact- you are dangerously close to fulfilling the criteria for quack science. I'm not saying that- the people who make such lists of criteria do, because there are many people with wild theories, yet most share a few basic traits.
Assuming accretion theory is wrong- [b]and I may be willing to grant that[/b]- is not equivalent to having your theory correct. It has bigger, more obvious problems than accretion ever did.
And, and, and- you and I both agree this is a SF site, with readers that are mostly casually interested in science. What kind of input are you expecting, for you to have put this theory here? Did you only want praise, or did you perhaps expect criticism (which would be VERY brave of you and what a scientist should actually be like)? Then be prepared for criticism, but I'd recommend that for genuine input, you do get over your mistrust of experts and speak in venues more specialized to the topic of your theory.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Gavin
MemberTrilobiteDec-20-2012 11:35 AMOkay BC,
Firstly, I posted this theory to share it, and debate it intelligently and in a civil fashion.
Yet, despite the fact the you don't seem to understand/care for you own insulting manner ("you problem, not mine", "you are dangerously close to fulfilling the criteria for quack science"), you assume to be learned enough to debate the matter at hand - the topic of this thread - my theory.
As stated in my last post...
[b]The sun, and all the planets are spinning on their own axis, in the same direction (with the exception of Uranus and Venus), which is the same direction of which they orbit the sun, and all the planets are moving AWAY from the sun - the logic of those two FACTs states clearly that...[/b]
[b][/b]
[b]1 - The planets were born from the sun[/b]
[b][/b]
[b]2 - Therefore the Accretion Theory is wrong[/b]
The rest, of my theory (see OP) is simply means by which to explain what can be observed.
You BC however, argue that my conclusions are misguided, faulty - "It has bigger, more obvious problems than accretion ever did". Your main problem seems to lie with Stage 5 onward, AKA the Gas giants.
So if the above (in bold) is observable and logical fact, explain to me how a Gas giant comes into existence, other than by losing its solid and liquid matter, and having its gaseous matter expanded outward.
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Chris
AdminEngineerDec-20-2012 11:41 AM[b]@BLANDCorporatio[/b], All science is guess work, nobody knows for sure. All "facts" are relative. But your responses are coming across as derogatory to a third party viewer, so please tone it down. We absolutely welcome "smart" comments, but not so much "smart-ass" comments.
Debate your heart out, but keep it respectful.
Hyped for: Alien: Romulus | Badlands (Predator 6) | Cloverfield 4
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BLANDCorporatio
MemberOvomorphDec-20-2012 11:51 AM[b]Snorkelbottom[/b], phase 5 is just one of many problems. All of your phases are problematic. Sometimes the problems are more obvious.
And, here's the thing. It's not fair, but it's the way it is. [b]I[/b] don't need to explain anything. How did the gas giants form? "I don't know" is a valid answer.
You think you have an answer however. But then, [b]you[/b] must now explain where the energy to remove the 'solid' and 'liquid' matter came from, and where that matter went. You need to explain why there's a huge mass difference between Jupiter and Earth. Because you seem to confuse mass with volume. Jupiter isn't just large, puffed out gas. It's really, really massive.
I see you also insist that you wanted intelligent and civil debate. Everyone says they do, but it would be a lot easier to believe it if you had a bit more respect for the work of many other people. And not just astronomers, because your theory flies against evidence collected by many different fields of science.
When that happens, it may not be fair, and it may not sound civil, but it's you who have to do the explaining.
All that work may well be wrong- but addressing why is not something to leave as an afterthought.
Finally, a comment. I don't assume to be learned enough in accretion theory to see why it would be wrong. I do however- and so do you- presume to be sufficiently knowledgeable of basic scientific method and basic scientific fact, to be able to do the kinds of basic sanity checks that engineering graduates are expected to be able to do. Your theory fails them. There's no way to sugar coat this.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Gavin
MemberTrilobiteDec-20-2012 12:16 PMYet more audacious, needless attacks, but I will ignore them...
So, despite that you do not state why, you call my entire theory invalid, and when asked why you just shrug your shoulders in a carefree manner. Surely if you think the theory false there must be reasons, unless I have wronged you in a past life.
Lets highlight your mention of Jupiter...
[i]you must now explain where the energy to remove the 'solid' and 'liquid' matter came from, and where that matter went. You need to explain why there's a huge mass difference between Jupiter and Earth. Because you seem to confuse mass with volume. Jupiter isn't just large, puffed out gas. It's really, really massive.[/i]
The answer is simple...
The liquid and solid matter were thrown out into space from an explosion, an explosion from the force of millions of years worth of trapped heat and gas under the crust of the planet.
Mercury, Venus and Earth have tectonic plates and volcanoes by which to expel excess heat and gas, Mars does not, as did Jupiter (and the other planets). The force of such a blast caused by millions of years with no volcanic or tectonic activity would be enough to expel all liquid and solid matter from the confines of the planets core. The gaseous atmosphere would be expelled to, but because of its lack of mass compared to the liquid and solid matter, the gases of the atmosphere would not have been able to build up enough velocity, nor momentum to escape the gravitational pull of the planets exposed core. The exposed core by which creates the illusion of the Jupiter insane mass, for when scientists refer to Jupiter's mass they are in fact referring to its massive gravitational pull, created because of its exposed core.
All of the above makes sense both logically and in line with what can be observed, do you agree?
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BLANDCorporatio
MemberOvomorphDec-20-2012 12:34 PM[b]Snorkelbottom[/b], from my very first post I made a long list of problems to your hypothesis. They're there, for each phase.
I don't remember being wronged by you in a past life, so I'll try to diminish the abrasion I emit. I'm not, in a care-free manner, dismissing you. I'm saying that I'm not the one who proposes an answer to a problem, because if I were, I'd also have to follow that answer's implications and compare it with the data. Doing that, for the answer you propose, reveals some problems.
Mars, among other things, has no magnetic field. This is, to the best available models currently, strong indication that it's internally cool. Relatively cool, compared to the Earth. Further, the mechanism for explosion is rapid expansion in volume. Liquids and solids don't expand as much. 'Water' doesn't explode, (contained) steam does. And there's no indication that an explosive boiler of that magnitude exists in the Earth, or Mars.
Assuming there's a 'boiler', why aren't there tectonic plates? All that supposed inner turmoil won't magically decide to keep itself contained, instead it will heat against, and push against, the surface, keeping it cracked and volcanic. Tectonic plates exist because the mantle contains liquid layers, layers that are kept liquid because of heat. Underground convection currents keep things mixed up, bringing heat from the center towards the surface. There are thermal differences of course, but if the surface got to cool, then that's an indication that the core also cooled. Otherwise, where did the extra insulation come from?
The bit about Jupiter's gravity being created by its exposed core is a bit confusing. Exposing the core won't make it more 'gravitationally active', or anything like that. So if Jupiter 'appears massive', that's because it is. If you're measuring Jupiter's gravity from outside of Jupiter, then the only thing that matters is its mass.
So the tl;dr version, is that the explosive phase 5, and subsequent gas giant formation, falls foul of geology and physics.
So at the risk of once again seeming to attack you no, what you claim doesn't make sense either logically or is in line with what can be observed.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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